Blurry Creatures - EP: 81 Ghosts with Shea Morin and Daniel MacAdams

Episode Date: January 12, 2022

Ghosts. Ghost Stories. Ghost Encounters. The idea of the dead living among us is one as old as time and a subject matter that has captured the attention of Hollywood and the masses alike. Endless "ghost" hunting shows and horror films have capitalized on this phenomenon but what is really going on in the real world? What are these entities? We kick off this show with a bone-chilling encounter from Blurry Creatures listener Shea Morin and then bring on ex-ghost hunter and author of "Biblical Explanations for the Paranormal" Daniel McAdams to unpack the ghost phenomena. We get into the weird and unexplained and then the even weirder. Demons, fallen angels, and everything in-between.... [e-mail] blurrycreatures.com Socials instagram.com/blurrycreatures facebook.com/blurrycreatures twitter.com/blurrycreatures Music Kyle Monroe: tinytaperoom.com Aaron Green: https://www.instagram.com/aaronkgreen/ Outro Song: TimeCop1983: timecop1983.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Luke so often, people email us and they have this story. They're out in their woods and they're looking in the bushes. and they go, what's that? And when you are pouring your dog food and your dog's bowl, that's the last thing you want to say. What is that? What is the stuff coming out of this bag? You know, I don't think a lot of us think about maybe what we feed our dogs.

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You know, I've got older dogs, Nate, as I said. And so, you know, since they've been getting rough greens with their food, I've noticed They have more energy. Their joints hurt less. They're older. I mean, they were talking 12 and 13 years old. And Rough Green's really made a difference in their energy levels and the pep in their step. So if you want to do what we did, you can get a free jumpstart trial bag for your dog today.

Just cover the shipping. Go to Rough Greens.com and use discount code blurry. That's RUFF Greens.com discount code blurry. Rough Greens makes any dog food better. I would go into the basement of the hotel in this kind of remote area where there was a Western-style bathroom. the toilet stall that had a closing door was like a normal western style stall so that's where I'd go for my smoke breaks because nobody would bother me so I go into the basement and I'm on my smoke break quite a remote part of the hotel there wasn't a lot of foot traffic or anything

so it was very unusual for me to be in the stall smoking this person opens the door comes in the bathroom and I look down under the stall door and I see pale, bare, white feet The history of our earth is so different from what we can imagine. The Smithsonian that if they found out about a large skeleton somewhere was to go get it. I'm going to assume at least one person is right, because if one person's right to bust the paradigm, it all goes back to the fallen chair. And the problem with the modern day church, they have a very truncated view of the supernatural. This backdrop that's just pregnant with all kinds of meaning,

associated with this Mount Hermon event. And this guy defects from the kingdom. That's a big deal. All right, welcome back to Blurry Creatures, the podcast where we're out chasing down the weirdest stories out there, Luke. We found one. Just one. And this is a blur.

I found one today to talk about. We found one. We get emails all the time, and sometimes you're like, dude, this is a good one, right? Our buddy Jay, who listens to the show, has an awesome story about, seeing something blurry in a bathroom and a basement of a hotel in Japan. Let's go. Right? Yeah.

And I was fortunate enough to go to Japan, hang out in Tokyo for like three weeks. Were you big in Japan? I was big in Japan. I was big in Japan. I was a raphaeim. You would have been the straight Nephom in Japan. Dude, I've been to South of these days. Where'd you go? I spent the time in Singapore, Malaysia, and I lived in Thailand for three months at an orphanage.

Yeah. And I was a giant. Like, I'd signed autographs and stuff. He did. Yeah. They don't use seeing just a huge tall, huge tall white guy walking around. I thought I played in the NBA or something. So I was at, we were at a restaurant in Japan after the show.

And they make you put all your shoes in the cupboards, you know, like a little cubbies. And you walk around the restaurant without shoes on. So I go to the bathroom mid-dinner and they have these little, like, wood sandals that you have to put your feet in to go into the man's bathroom. And I could barely get my feet in these wood sandals. It's like tile floor. It's all wet in the bathroom. So I'm scooting through shuffling with these little wood sandals on my feet. And these two Japanese guys starts laughing.

And I started laughing. And we all start cracking up. We were at a hotel in Thailand. And they give you like a robe and slippers. Yeah. And like the slippers were like fit on half my feet. Exactly. Right?

That's how it was. I was like a skinny missionary kid at this point. Dude, I was a YWammer and I had. Yeah. You know, it wasn't beefy. This is before you started packing the creatine in your smoothie in the morning? This is before I just started just protein powder into the, to the dome.

But today, though, we're going to talk about ghosts. We've been, so we've talked about demons a lot on the show. We never really talked about ghosts specifically. Luke, we haven't really got into, are they spirits? Are they physical? What are they? There's just a lot of conjecture. There's a lot of speculation, but we haven't really tackled that.

We haven't addressed it straight on. I mean, I think when you're looking at the supernatural worldview, the whole narrative of people's souls just sticking around, it doesn't really stick. Although that's, that's the popular idea, right? Is that these hauntings happen in the spirit of someone, you know, in limbo or didn't pass on. All that stuff really doesn't have a whole lot of biblical foundation. I have my own views on this whole thing,

but I'm excited to kind of talk about some real experiences and then dive into the topic of ghosts, right? Ghost stories and, you know, hauntings and all this stuff. And, you know, how do we make heads or tales of that in the context of blurry creatures? Yeah. It does get difficult, right? Like, do you still stick around and there's lots of stories in the Bible where Samuel, some weird stories about visiting.

Summoning, the witch of Endor. Sounds like a Star Wars thing. Right. Right. So there's some interesting stories in the Bible. And obviously, if you haven't listened to our show before, that's what we filter everything through. We try to give you the most blurry but biblical-based.

And this guy, Jay emailed us and told us the story, and it just was too fascinating. We had to bring him on the show. It reminded me like confessionals. It's very Tony-esque from the confessions, right? Yeah. Once in a while, you get a good one. And I think this falls outside of, like, it makes you really think, like, okay, how is this possible?

How are stories like this possible? Because you hear stories like this, Luke. I don't know where to file them. They don't really fit nicely into my worldview. Yeah. They're kind of difficult. I'm going to be honest with you. They're like, what do you do with these?

Yeah, I don't know. So. You put them in the blurry files. You start a podcast and you just scratch your head, right? Is that what you do? Sure. It's one way to do it. So if you want to be a member of the podcast, Luke,

where we've got a great community growing. Tell them how they can become a member of the show and support the show. Just go to our website, and you can sign up to support the podcast by being a member. And when you are a member, you get your own private RSS feed where all the exclusive content will show up to your phone. I know this is helpful for a lot of people that are used to listening or have in the past, listen to the podcast through the website. You know, and you've got to keep refreshing to keep it open. Shout out to our truck driver friends out there.

Also, Nate and I You put out a lot of extra content I'd say we try to put out at least a bonus episode Every other week So there is extra blurry and extra content there We have a private member's only Facebook page And we're working on a bunch of other really cool perks To the membership

In this whole thing, you can You can really partner with us And come alongside what we're doing And help us to continue to do what we do And do more of what we do And you know, Nate spends a ton of time in the editing in the in the in the blurry lab just spinning out 80s tunes and and making everyone sound just sound deliciously good on the cast and so yeah we've got a lot of things in the pipe and

we'd love to have you be a part of what we're doing so check out the membership page for the cost of a of a coffee you too can be a blurry member be an insider let's go love it that's great luke and we got a members chat monday night january 17 when is this coming out You missed it. I think this is coming out tomorrow. I'm going to put this one out tomorrow. You missed it. It was Monday.

My name's Shay. I've worked in the hotel industry for about 30 or 40 years. This is the story of one of the hotels I worked at in Japan. This was in the mid-90s, maybe early 90s. And I was working in a hotel called the Shin Urayasu Oriental Hotel. And it's in Tokyo, Japan. one of the great things about Japan at that time was you could smoke just about anywhere and you could take a smoke break indoors and smoke.

So what I would do is I would go to the basement of the hotel where there was a Western-style washroom because the rest of the bathrooms in the hotel had these sort of squatting style of toilet, which was really weird and I was not used to it. So I would go into the basement of the hotel in this kind of remote area where there was a Western-style bathroom, the toilet stall, that had a closing door. It was like a normal Western-style stall. So that's where I'd go for my smoke breaks because nobody would bother me. So I go into the basement and I'm on my smoke break.

Quite a remote part of the hotel. There wasn't a lot of foot traffic or anything. So it was very unusual for me to be in the stall smoking and outside the bathroom door opened and someone came in. And that was really weird. I figured somebody, I thought I was actually going to get in trouble for taking a smoke break in the wrong area. So this person opens the door, comes in the bathroom, and I look down under the stall door, and I see pale, bare, white feet. They're like girls' feet.

So pale, bare, white feet, kind of flap, flap, flap, flap, slowly walk into the bathroom until they're standing in front of my stall. And then the feet turn directly in front of my stall. I'm sitting in the stall in total silence, looking down at these feet, and the person is facing my stall directly in total silence. So I'm just sitting there kind of quietly wondering what's going on, what lunatic has followed me into the washroom. And then all of a sudden black hair comes down at the door of the stall as if someone's like leaning down and looking down under the, about to look down under the stall. And I remember being really quiet and just wanting to be really. quiet about it and not knowing why. So the hair comes down and kind of sways in front of my bathroom stall for a second and then the hair goes back up.

And I'm just sitting there. The feet turn and plop, plop, plop, slowly walk out of the bathroom and whoever it was leaves the bathroom. So I went upstairs and finished my shift and I was talking to my friend Mitsu and these a couple of girls that were working as well and I told them the story of what happened. in the bathroom. I said, I was in the bathroom and some girl followed me in the washroom. And she had black hair and she didn't have any shoes on and she followed me in the washroom. And when I told them that story, one of the girls just started sobbing, just burst into tears and started sobbing. And the other girl cried out and literally ran and left the lobby and ran away.

My friend Mitsu, who was the only, he was the only guy who really spoke English super well in the hotel that I was friends with. He told me that the general manager of the hotel wanted to meet with me. And he was going to be there as a translator. My friend Mitsu would be there. So we go and meet with the general manager of the hotel. And this was very unusual because I was a very low-level intern. My friend Mitsu was just a bellhop. We weren't.

This was a huge hotel. Like a four-star hotel with hundreds of employees. There was no reason to meet with us. And we went and there was a big luncheon. And they fed us. And at the end of this hour luncheon, the manager of the hotel through Mitsu tells me just so you know,

we're going to move you to a different part of the hotel. You can consider this a promotion if you'd like. And another thing, if you ever speak about what happened to you in the bathroom, you're going to be fired immediately. And then as we're finishing the meeting, in sort of a more informal way, the manager, he finishes the meeting,

and he pulls Mitsu aside, and he says, tell him that just so he knows, the manager said, if I hadn't been smoking, he thinks I wouldn't have survived that. I'm a Christian. I believe the Holy Spirit keeps me safe from evil spirits. I think that's what chased anything bad out of there. And my wife is Japanese,

and she doesn't like me to tell the story. She doesn't like me to talk about it. She doesn't really want to hear about it, to be honest. So again, it's called the Shin Urayasu Oriental Hotel in Japan. Don't go use the basin bathroom. Don't go use the basement bathroom. Sometimes it feels like when you get that phone bill, it's like the crash site document.

You can't read it. There's a bunch of numbers, random feet. vague language, stuff's blacked out. You're like, what am I actually paying for? I don't know about you, but I like keeping my money where I can see it. I like to be simple. I like to be easy. I'm going to be thrown away money on big wireless carriers.

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And it runs on the nation's largest 5G net. work. So the question becomes, why has everyone been acting like this has to be expensive? It doesn't have to be. Dr. Judd Burton's out there dialing up blurry every day, giving us the scoop on what's going on in the academic world and the ancient world on Mint Mobile. Loud and clear on the job sites, way out in the middle of nowhere, Texas. And if you want to save money, just like the illustrious Dr. Judd Burton, switch to Mint Mobile. If you like your money, say where it is. Mintmobles for you, shop plans at mintmobile.com slash blurry. That's mintmobile.com slash blurry. Up front payment at $45 for a three-month, five-gigabyte plan required, equivalent to $15 a month.

New customer offer for first three months only, then full-price plan options available, taxes and fees extra, cement mobile for details. How are you? What's up, man? It's so good, here you go. Wow, this is amazing. Put the AOL CD in and spin it around, so they make some noise. Just make sure no one calls during this.

It'll boot you off. I got the Calico all fired up. The Calico. Let's go. I had a Calico. I used to play Cuberd on it, Luke. Did you? I didn't do that, Nate. Nice.

Well, you were the oldest. I had a sister who was eight years older, so I... Oh, you got all the 70s stuff. Yeah, I was a tad in the 70s. Well, dude, thanks for coming on, man. Yeah, thank you. Well, thanks so much for inviting me. I'm so excited.

I'm such a huge fan of your show, and you guys produce so much good content, and you just kind of hit a cultural nerve, and it's just a definitely a different kind of show, sort of a transcendent show. So congratulations you guys. You're doing an amazing. Thanks, man. Yeah, man. That's awesome. All right, welcome to the show. Shea Moran from Canada, our friend from up north. America's hat.

America's hat. There it is. Good to have you on the show. Thanks for having me, guys. Appreciate you coming on blurry creatures and sharing your story. Thanks for being here. Yeah, wild story. I appreciate being so much. I'm just a huge fan of the show and I'm kind of geeking out right now. And I appreciate it so much. I appreciate it so much. I appreciate that you guys like the story too. Yeah. I mean, we've brought on one other fellow Canadian.

He told us a great Bigfoot story going on up there. Yeah, we did. So, Shea, obviously, you've listened to the show, you know what we do. Tell us, what are your thoughts on Bigfoot? You live in Bigfoot's backyard. If Bigfoot was going to be anywhere, Luke, he would be in Canada. There's a lot of forest here. So the funny thing about, I've always been interested in Bigfoot.

I've always been interested in sort of cryptids and that kind of stuff. And I'm not a super big, big foot believer. I'm a pretty like scientific, rational, skeptical person. I think that there probably is some kind of population of an undiscovered primate somewhere in the world. I'm not sure about all the supernatural stuff. I don't discount that possibility. But yeah, I mean, I definitely think there's some kind of giant primate running around

for sure. He's out there. And we bring you on the show today because we're talking about another blurry creature. Yeah, so, Shay, so the first thing I thought about when, you know, listen to the story is these reactions of the people you work with, including the GM. And like, do they ever really go into any, any kind of detail on,

on why this was such a crazy experience and why you were lucky to be alive and what this, what this thing was, potentially? Yeah, I mean, it was, it was a long time ago. And it was sort of, I was pretty nervous at the time because I was like a kind of a fledgling hotel employee. And I was meeting the GM at this hotel. And it was kind of a tense situation already.

but I remember that I remember there was a kind of a formality to the first part of the meeting and sort of a real procedure that we were sort of going through and then at the end of the meeting it was sort of like he told me the real purpose of the meeting was to let me know

hey you're not talking about this in the hotel anymore and then when he pulled me aside after it he told me you know I think that if you hadn't been smoking I don't know if you would have survived that when he told me that through the translator to my friend Mitsu my friend Mitsu was very hesitant to translate that And I think he tried to translate it at first in a way that was kind of ambivalent.

And I pressed him for it a little more. And I think that's when he kind of, he told me what the manager meant and he was very embarrassed. And it's kind of a weird movie. So do you think anyone didn't survive in that toilet stall at some point in the past? It is weird that he said that, right? Yeah. Like someone went, someone went disappearing one day? It's an old one tell.

Who knows how many people have had a heart attack or had. stroke down there. You know what I mean? Like it's a it was an odd thing to say. That's for sure. So I did a little research. I don't know how much you've looked into this, but we were sitting here, listen to your story. Because it makes you think of the ring, right? And I know this happened before the ring, and which is crazy. And then you realize that there's, there's this Japanese spirit or a type of ghost that they call in on Ryo or if I don't know how to, you know, I don't know, my Japanese is poor. And it's spot on to what you saw. And it's, Sounds like the ring, but let me just read this to you real quick.

When I found some research on this, is what I found. And it says this is actually something that is thematically represented a lot of Japanese horror movies. So it has some Japanese, like, folk history to it. And it's, it's a ghost, usually that of a young woman with long stringy black hair that covers her face. She's usually clad in a white burial kimono or shroud. She's commonly barefoot if she has feet at all. And this type of ghost is called it on. the ghost of a young woman who was greatly wronged by a man in life and now seeks vengeance on the living.

Usually the man who actually did wrong is left untouched by the honorio and her anger tends to be directed more had anyone unlucky enough to run into her. The legend of this ghost or spirit goes back as far as 729 AD and it was pretty much highlighted and made iconic by the ring. And we know that what your experience, you know, as we said, predates the ring. So it's like everyone you work with knew that this was what this was. And it felt like they kept you in the dark. You know what the weird thing was? When the trailer came out for the ring, I had almost forgotten about this story, actually. I'd forgotten about it for about five or six years.

I didn't tell it to people because it was just sort of this weird story. And then I saw the trailer for the ring because there was a Japanese version that came out that was huge in Japan. But it didn't really reach Arshores until the remake. And then when the remake came out, I think that was the late 90s. When that remake came out, I saw the trailer and I was like, I know her. I totally recognized that imagery. I was just like, yeah, I've totally, I know that. So here's a question for you.

How much do you think this entity was physical? Did you hear breathing? Did you smell anything? How physical was this? I mean, it was a person. There was a person in the Washington. room with me. That's all I can tell you is it wasn't, there was nothing ethereal. There was no, you know what I mean? There was no background music or anything. It was just a person that shouldn't

have been in the washroom, opened the door and walked in. And there, I mean, it was just weird to see somebody with bare feet in the basement of a hotel during a graveyard shift. You know what I mean? Graveyard shift. So it's the middle of the night. That's a big no. Yeah. Well, I worked away. But yeah, yeah, it was, uh, it was really, there was nobody in that part of the hotel. It was sort of an employee area where a lot of the employees used to go to that area and drink. And it was kind of a party area for the younger employees would go and kind of sneak down to this area and stuff. So it's not unusual to think that maybe in a hotel, a woman might have been wronged in the last

50 years. Did they elaborate on the smoking thing? Like somehow you were protected by, you know, by having a midnight chief. And you didn't even really, you didn't even know it, you know. Did they say why that is? I think I talked about it with my co-worker Bitsu. And I think he said something like what I said originally that it has something new with burning incense.

They believe the burning incense and smoke sort of chases away evil spirits. And I think that's kind of a common cultural thing. I kind of wonder where that it comes from. But yeah, I mean, my co-worker was definitely, he was embarrassed to tell me that additional detail. but the general manager of the hotel was adamant that he be clear about that point. And he kind of said it in a flipping kind of way.

Like, ooh, you kind of looked out there, buddy. It was just such a weird, informal moment at the end of a very formal meeting. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, I've been to Japan. It felt like a very, I mean, it was culture shock. Obviously, I was there for about three weeks, and it felt kind of dark. I remember specifically like our tour manager had his big tattoo of Jesus on his hand and some and all the Japanese, like, who's, who's that person?

You know. And I mean, obviously it's like, you know, we have American versions of Jesus and we have our tattoos and things like that. It's just more westernized. But it felt like it felt like more like a darker country. It felt like there was a lot of people that were a lot of drinking, tons of drinking. I mean, yeah. And it felt like nobody's shamed. their opinions and their feelings and there was a lot of everything felt bottled up.

Very stifled. It's very stifled. There's a sort of a stifled masculinity there. There's a stifled vitality maybe that, yeah, I know what you mean. When I got married, my wife is Japanese. We honeymoon in part of Japan. We toured a temple that was in the mountains of Hiroshima. And my wife was just as creeped out by it as I was.

We went into this temple and you kind of, you go into the mountain and you literally the base of the temple starts at the base of the mountain. You go right into the mountain. And there's statues, these sort of like, I hate to say, giant demonic beings standing inside this temple. And as you're walking through the temple, my wife, we were walking through it. And she turned to me and she was like, I cannot wait to get out of here. She just, she couldn't stand it either.

And we both felt a very, um, there was a real spiritual darkness to the place. I think, I don't know, because I was a Christian and she was kind of a new baby Christian. I think we felt sort of a, I don't know if I'm projected, but I think you feel sort of a spiritual attack. It's like a check in your spirit. Hostility. Like a spiritual hostility more than anything. Yeah, yeah.

I've always been that way. I walk into certain places I feel either. I'm welcome or I'm not welcome. There's a big feeler, Nate. Dude, I'm this big emo kid from day one. That's right. So did you hear her walk away or is just like when the door closed it was like she disappeared? I was in the stall. The feet kind of flapped out the door. The door closed. And I think I sat in the stall and I finished my smoke. And I just kind of sat there and finished my break. And then I left and went back to work. And I didn't. The thing is, it was such a, there was a person in the bathroom with me. The thought of an entity or a ghost or any of that stuff, even now talking about it seems kind of strange to say that. But at the time, that didn't really even occur to me. It was just a girl came in the bathroom and tried to look at the stall.

Yeah, but I mean not not wearing shoes. Was there like a ratty country dress or something? You know, you just saw feet and then the hair. That was it, right? A little, maybe a white hem. I saw it kind of a white hem. Oh, you did. It's the burial shroud.

For real. And I mean, when she was standing in front of my stall, I remember the smoke went in my eye. And I just remember I should not make a sound right now. I just remember tension, just pure tension. And just being really, really quiet and kind of wanting this moment to pass. You know what I mean? And my friend meets you told me, he's like, it's a good thing you didn't open the door. But I don't know.

Part of me kind of, I'm a very confrontational person. You know, I'm like, if there's a ghost, who are you going to call? I want to open the door. Yeah. I want to, let's get it on. Wow. Yeah. You don't have your proton pack on.

You just have your pack of marl burles. That's it. Yeah, that's my proxon pack of marlbrose. Some sage sticks is what you need. Well, I've heard stories, Luke, like people like they used to, burn things to ward off evil spirits a lot. And even, I remember reading the story of these old bells that they put on ships and they'd even knock these bells to ward off spirits. And there's just, you wonder how much truth is to all those ancient stories of people doing these things to

keep these things at bay. You know, maybe, maybe back in the day, there were those sirens that lured sailors to their death and who knows what could come out of the waters. You know, I think it's, I think Part of it is sort of like somebody who doesn't know Jesus or somebody who doesn't know sort of their own spiritual protection. I think that taking an action or sort of making some sort of like the burning of incense and the ringing of bells, I think it's almost as much of a comfort to ourselves as it is a warding off. I think belief wards things off and faith, faith wards off evil.

And I think, you know, if somebody hasn't heard of Jesus, but they're still having faith in Jesus without having heard of him. You know what I mean? Does that make sense? Totally. I think sometimes, though, it's when you do get into the weirder stories, you, you know, we just talked about on our Christmas show, like, some of the symbols of, like, frankincense and gold and these other things that there are, there is some weird physicality to certain things that maybe if, you know, like the old saying, if you have some garlic,

it wards off the vampires. Like, does it? You know, like, even if you're a Christian, does that mean you can't have garlic in your, in your shorts? when you're fighting vampires. I mean, I don't know. I don't know the line there. I don't know when it becomes new age versus it's just maybe there's some truth.

Maybe these entities don't like these things. Why couldn't that be true? Totally. You guys just really raises some questions about materialism and so a lot of cosmic questions and materialism and the nature of reality and stuff. It's interesting to think about sort of the physical aspect and the spiritual aspect of things and so where that crossover is for sure. Now you can tell your friends, smoking saved my life.

You put that on a t-shirt and then you can tell everybody, right? Yeah, yeah, she was coming. She was vengeful and she was coming, but she did not like those Marlboro Reds. It was not for her. Yeah, it was definitely a creepy situation. It was a creepy story. And every time I tell people, I tell some, I'm still working hotels and I tell my coworkers about it. And I get a lot of mixed reactions, you know, I get a lot of rolled eyes, but then I

I get a lot of people making the cross and trying to, a lot of people don't want to hear about it. Occasionally you'd creep people out for sure. Do you think if you weren't smoking, something would have happened? I don't know. It's like I said. I believe I'm protected by the Holy Spirit, but, I mean, it didn't hurt to be smoking at the time. Yeah. I mean, it's just a bizarre story.

Yeah. Shea, I got to add to ask. You know, when we were talking to you and communicating back and forth about about this particular story in the ghost, you also talk about some stuff that happened near you. and it's not so much in the ghost vein, but it is in the blurry vein. You talk about a valley in northern Canada that has rumors of giants and cannibals,

and it has to do with... Tell us about Nahani Valley, and I think this is something that maybe we'll get into. It's called the Valley of the Headless Men. And there's a couple of websites about it. I think there have been a couple of attempts to make documentaries about it. I hate to be that guy.

I just wrote a novel about it. I haven't published anything, but I'm definitely going to, I'll send it to you guys or something. I love for you to read it. But just let's do our Brian Godawa episode. He plugs every book he ever wrote. So you're good. You're doing it.

I just don't want to be the guy. But nevertheless, I did write a book about it. However, it's this valley that's about 800 kilometers north of where I live. And I think it started with a, there's a lost gold mine by a couple of guys called the McLeod Brothers in the 1700s or 1800. found a gold mine, hit it big, and then they went missing. And when somebody went to find them, they found them with their heads missing. And then for the last 400 years, people in that valley have been turning up with their heads missing. And if you look it up, there's dozens of cases of people going out there and missing heads, turning up missing, lots of fires and burned cabins and stuff like that.

If you speak to the Dene people, the Aboriginal people that live up there, they talk about a tribe. called the Naha that were large people who lived in in that area and were cannibals and they had kind of a war with them and eventually the Dene people wiped them out and it's such a commonality with so many stories that you guys have on your show I had to mention it's crazy yeah is you think it's a tribe of a few giants that survived it kind of reminds you the Bigfoot thing. Like, um, but,

uh, except this bigfoot collects heads. If you look at up, people have, um, people have brought out supposed mastodon fossils. People have, I think someone said that they talked to the Dene people there and they

talked to some of the community that were living there. And someone drew a picture of a mastodon or something. Um, so there's literally like 400 years of stories from this place called Nahani Valley, the valley of the headless men, uh, lost gold mines. it's an amazing place.

It's crazy. Yeah, it reminds me of some of the stories we heard from the beginning. Like Duke was talking about the Janoskwa, the sort of ugly-looking Bigfoot. I've heard these stories where they'll walk up behind you and they just pop your head off like a great. Just squeeze that thing right off. And I mean, if it's 100 times as strong as you are, that's the first thing you can do. Just like quick and easy. That's the way to go, Luke.

It's just if you're going to go in the woods, you don't even know. happened. You don't even know it hit you. We panic when we see a bear and people think that a big foot's going to be fun to run into, but I don't think it would be that fun. No. And I think there's probably something to be said for the for the giant aspect, right, including the foreclore. It's like we know not all cannibals are giants, but we know all giants were cannibals. So whether or not that, I just think that's pretty fascinating. Considering what we've talked about North America with yellow hair and, you know, Lovelock Caves and Catalina Island and the mound builders of Ohio in the Ohio Valley.

There's, there's such a rich, a rich history if you look for it of, you know, of giants being here. And that wouldn't be surprising to me, especially if they're eating people. I thought that there's sort of a,

a tie-in with mountains all the time, too. There's always this thing, mountains and height, high places. There's an interesting thing about the Nihani Valley where it's a unique mountain range where a glacier, when a glacier created that mountain, it was porous rock like um what's that really porous rock that's light that floats on water pumice

pumice stone yeah it's sort of like pumice stone and when the glacier melted all that water ran out of the mountain and so when the wind blows through that valley it hits the mountain and it turns the entire valley into like this giant pipe organ and apparently it fills the valley with this horrible haunting sound i've got to check it out i got to check it out some day so much man we got to get that, we got to get a recording of that and play it on here because that sounds spooky. That sounds spooky. Well, I'll go on a helicopter.

We'll, uh, we'll go check it out. Well, for those of people listening around the world, and we are getting people from all over the place, people don't understand Canada. They just don't understand how much. I've driven across Canada from Vancouver all the way. It's a long drive,

and there's so many times you're, you feel like you're in the middle of nowhere. Like, truly. It's so very, vast, there's so much, so much unoccupied land. I mean, anything could live up there. And there's a lot of these guys that say they hike five or six days into remote parts of Canada that you can't get to. And that's when the weird stuff starts happening. That's when like they've run into weird tribes of Bigfoot. Oh, for sure. I think about that all the time. I live in a pretty remote part

of northern BC. And I mean, I think you could, you could walk. I mean, you could drive an hour anywhere from here and be somewhere that no one's been for 10,000 years. There's, there's so much area that's, that's untouched. And yeah, for sure, it's, uh, Canada's interesting, it's really cold right now, though. Yeah, I bet. Dude, Nate, I also drove across Canada one summer. You did. You did.

Oh, yeah, you're on tour. Oh, yeah, you're on tour. Oh, yeah, you're on tour. Oh, yeah, you don't call it. Nice. I was a tour drummer. I toured with a group called Pax 217. We toured from, uh, we went from, um, Amarillo, Texas to, to, uh, Seattle or something.

And then we broke down in the desert in Vegas on my birthday. All we had were the lights of Vegas. We're walking across the desert. There's another crazy story. You were friends with the Tosti brothers. You know Pax 217? You know those guys? Yeah.

It's awesome. I was texting Aaron today, actually. No way. Yeah. I'm friends with Aaron. That's crazy. I was the drummer for Pax 217. I can't remember.

There was these two brothers. They're twin brothers. and they always wear like leather jackets. They look like the Ramones. I can't remember the name. Good Charlotte. That's crazy, though. That's more.

Yeah, I know Dave Tosti because my best friend growing up, he had a band called Number One Gun, and they played a bunch of shows with packs. Yeah, I know, do I have been... I'm literally looking at it. I've got a picture of me walking through San Francisco, and they're in the background,

and they're like, who's this... random drummer taking a picture of me. Sandbox, dude, sandbox praise. What a weird world. What a small world. Wow. That is. That's truly weird.

For real. No, it is weird. I'm happy to hear that, though. That's awesome. Because, yeah, Luke was hanging out with me. Aaron came to my birthday party, Luke, when you showed up. I don't know. Okay, cool.

I was talking about it, actually. We were talking about Jeff and Dave, and because I went on tour with a band across Canada, like a metal band. It was on Solid State Records called Cry the Afflicted. there's a bunch of boys from Kelowna that I became friends with and uh and that's why I spent a summer in Canada. You guys are musicians. That's that's uh that's pretty great and who do guys this whole time we were on tour we could have been going to mounds we could have been going to like secret sites instead we were just playing thrash metal you know instead we were going to like

crappy donut holes and burrito places and that was it dude a lot of timmy hoes yeah well shay I mean any any last thoughts about the I mean it was definitely a female it was it was a younger, was it a younger girl or was it older? It's just a girl's feet. I mean, it was, I mean, my final thoughts are that something unusual definitely happened. Like I said, I'm a very like scientific, rational person, but, you know, I'm really interested in the truth. I'm really curious.

I think that we've sort of lost our curiosity in our world. And your show helps a lot with that. And I'm still curious about what happened. And that's why I still talk about it. And that's why I kind of mentioned it to you guys. and I'm so glad I had a chance to talk about it with you and sort of go over it again and I get to,

can we play this and freak my life out? I mean, Luke and I were talking about before you came on the show of like, what do you think it is? Like, we talk about demons a lot and we talk about angelic beings a lot and we talk about physical crypted creatures a lot, but ghost beings that are kind of in between this like,

like spirit. Yep. This doesn't sound like you think this is a ghost. It sounds like you said this is an actual, And it was like a, like some sort of, it sounds like a zombie in my mind. It's like this like half alive, half dead thing walks in the bathroom. It doesn't sound like it's kind of in between. I don't think I really thought about whether it was a person who had lived or something bad, like an evil entity kind of thing.

But yeah, I mean, I definitely don't think that, I don't think it's impossible for a person to, or a person's spirit or some part of a person's spirit to continue. to continue on this on this plane or in this existence i mean it's who knows there you know there are things that we don't understand there are levels of reality and frequencies of reality that we don't understand and that we're just barely scratching the service of so i think it's unscientific and irrational to to come to a conclusion about it and say it definitely was this or definitely was that i definitely think it's something unusual happen for sure sounds it sounds demonic to me. I just, I just don't buy the whole ghost premise, but that's, that's my

It was creepy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's definitely not a, not a, it was a negative vibe. I mean, it's hard. It's hard to understand, like, because demons get into bodies, they seem more spiritual. I'll tell you what, though, if you're going to get the poop scared out of you, no better place to be than in the bathroom.

Right? Yes. I love the way you ended the story, by the way. It was awesome. Like, don't go into the basement of a hotel in Japan. Don't use that bathroom. Don't use that particular bathroom. Go upstairs.

But if you do, bring some Sigs with you, right? That's a true recommendation, for real. What kind of cigarettes were you smoking? I was a Marlboro right man last. I actually missed those. I missed the brand. That's funny.

We're not getting a camel endorsement. No, it's over. Man. Marlboro, they're still, they taste American. They stopped doing cigarette ads in the 80s. Well, Shay, man, thank you so much for coming on Blurry Creatures. Thanks for listening to the show.

Thanks for sharing your story. Thank you so much, you guys. I'm so honored and I'm so thankful that you were, that you invited me to be on the show. I really appreciate it. That was awesome. Thanks for reaching out and telling your story, man. Let us know when your book comes out.

I'm happy to send me a copy. Give it a read. Yeah, we'll do that, and then we'll bring it back and we'll pump it like with Brian Godawa. Nice. Hopefully your wife doesn't think it's too creepy. Tell her thanks for letting you share your story and getting it out there. Yeah.

And if you have any other thoughts and anything else comes up, send us an email. I will, for sure, if anything comes up, and I'll send you a copy of that book. I really appreciate your time, guys. Appreciate it, brother. Oh, yeah. Bye-bye. That's wild, man. So what do you think, Luke?

I don't know. I don't know what to make, I don't know what to do with the stories when it doesn't, it just falls in that weird space. I don't think there's a lot to, I don't know, man. There's nothing a lot to go on. I completely think it's demonic, man. I don't find a lot of wiggle room in my, and sort of where I'm at. But why the physicality? Why does it take a physical shape?

It's like a person. I just, I think it's in appearance, too, right? Like, I mean, it would appear physical. But I think if the ultimate goal of demonic is to scare and oppress, I mean, I think that's something that we, isn't surprised in me. I could be wrong, but that's kind of, that's the way I think.

I think that there's, demons and I think there's fallen angels and the entities fall into into those categories and center dimensional weird stuff. I have to tip my cap to him Luke because if I saw something like that walking to the bathroom and basement I would freak out. That's just

he seemed like he handled it like a pro this he was in the stall man it was easy. Dude I would have to do it he had to do it. I don't know what I would have done could you imagine just sitting there like in silence like is it going to break the door down? What's it going to do? Get ready get your mind right. You just get your mind right. You just get

Mine right. I guess I remember hearing a lot of prisons. Like my Bible teacher when I was in junior high, his best friend worked at a prison, Folsom Prison, obviously. And he would tell stories about dudes that would come in there with like all possessed and they would throw like 10 guards off these. They would just throw them like rag dolls. And you just think like if this thing's an actual entity, this, the guy at the hotel

could have been telling the truth. You might not, you might not have survived. It's a good thing. It didn't want to hang out in the smoking section. Yeah. Do you think the Holy Spirit gives you a shield around you, Luke? They know, they can sense it. They don't want to mess with you.

Yeah, I think that for sure they can. I think that's part of the spirit indwelling, right? Holy Spirit lives within us. I think we do things and we can do things through sin that they can allow the demonic to have footholds. So I think it's a nuance. It's like, I don't know that we have this like force field necessarily, though, but I do believe that we're marked as sons and daughters of the king.

Yeah, I don't know. interesting question. It's, uh, it's nuanced, I think. He did make it sound like it was about to look under the stall. Like he was about to see a face. You're just, just getting cinematic and here it is. It's just a zombie girl. It's almost better that she doesn't, he doesn't see the face. Yes. It's like, dude, it's like that movie. Remember the movie signs? Yeah. The movie with, the movie was so creepy until they showed the stupid aliens and then it wasn't anymore. If they had just not ever shown it, it had been like the creepiest. Well, they showed on the roof for like a split second. You see it on the roof in the beginning.

I don't know if you remember that. Yeah. And then it takes off. You don't really get to see it. But yeah, the alien looked bad. But someone argued that it's not about aliens. It's all about losing your faith and finding it again. That's the whole premise of the movie.

I'm just in pure cinematic being scared. Sure, sure, sure. Instead you've got, Joaquin Phoenix swing away, you know, and it's just like, okay, I'm not scared anymore. These are just like praying mantis things. Like, they're not. But I think, like, it's probably better that you didn't see. The face, something about the face,

something about the face would probably burn a hole in your mind and then you would have nightmares for years. Yeah. Sounds like he wasn't traumatized, but the girls he told that worked for him were. They were done. They were out. So anyway, thanks for listening to this episode with our buddy Shay. If you've seen anything creepy like that every once in a while, we'll bring people on who've had these experiences on blurry creatures. And this kind of fits into a category that we don't know what to make of it, but this is kind of part of our ghost episode.

We're going to bring on our buddy Daniel, who does paranormal investigations next, and he's going to talk about some of his dealings, and we get into it, right? Luke, we talked to him for a while about... Yeah, real ghost hunter, and he's going to talk about his conclusions based on a career in investigating the paranormal, which is another fascinating dive into what... To kind of breaking some of the paradigms in the mainstream narrative about... ghosts and what ghosts are. I thought this would be kind of interesting to have a story of actual, maybe a ghost,

and then come and bring on someone who has boots on the ground experience with these entities. So stay tuned for Daniel McAdams. He's up next. Oh, Danny Mack. He's up next. All right. Welcome back to the show. Nate.

Yeah. I'd like to welcome to the show Daniel McAdams. Daniel wrote a book called Biblical Explanations for the paranormal. and we actually had a few of our listeners reach out and request that we bring Daniel on the show. So we're listening. Daniel's a former paranormal investigator turned theology student. He is the author of biblical explanation for the paranormal, like I just said. So welcome to the show, Daniel.

Thank you guys for having me. Excited to be here. Great to have you. All right. So Nate likes to usually drive, but I get to drive today. And Nate, what do we do first? Bigfoot. Yes, every guest.

Yeah, Daniel. So what do you think about Bigfoot? we ask every guest who comes on the show what their thoughts are on Bigfoot. There's no right answer, but there's no wrong answer. So that kind of leaves you in a weird spot. It's just an answer. Neither right nor wrong, just an answer. Bigford is quite the polarizing creature, especially in lay circles,

people who don't really know the paranormal whole lot. You have a lot of people on both sides of the spectrum, too. When it comes to cryptozoology, I say there's this two. main fields of cryptozoology, there's natural cryptozoology, which falls into like natural sciences, like zoology, biology, scientists going out into the field to find real flesh and blood creatures. And then you have spiritual cryptozoology, which is more in line with like the legendary mythical creatures, creatures that have more of the spiritual connotation to it. And Bigford, honestly, kind of splits the cryptozoology field right down the middle. Because there's a lot of people

out there who think it's a flesh and blood creature, like a bear or a gigantic epithicus that has survived. And then you also have a lot of people that think it's an interdimensional creature, an alien, or some sort of spiritual entity. Personally, I think there's a possibility that there could be a giant hominid-type creature out there that we just haven't found yet. There's a lot of unexplored wilderness, even within the United States and North America itself, and especially overseas in like Africa and Asia and I'm of the persuasion that it is it is a real flesh and blood creature that we just haven't been able to document or actually get some good evidence of yet. I like it.

So obviously my question is how come Bigfoot can talk to you telepathically? How come they can appear and disappear? How come every other animal out there gets captured? But Bigfoot somehow stays off the grid. Nobody can catch him. it doesn't make any sense as to why he has these extra abilities. That's why I say it's a polarizing creature because there is some evidence out there that seems to make it seems as if it's a real flesh and bug creature. The footprints, some fur that scientists haven't been able to place with being any known animal.

And then you have the recordings from the Sierra Nevada's, I think it was, just that blood-chilling. like call back and forth in the middle of the night that doesn't sound like any creature out there. Then like you said, there's people that say that they've had telepathic communications where they see it just disappear on and off. I think if you go to the spiritual side of it, I think it would fall similar to how I, my stances and biblical explanations are paranormal about ghosts and hauntings, that it would probably fall into a demonic side of things. But I haven't done a whole ton of research into it, so that's just speculation on my part. We like it. We like speculation, Daniel. Until we, until someone haulsing out of the woods, yeah, or disappears, you know, into the portal with the, with the big guy. We don't really,

we don't have a whole lot of firm, firm answers. Exactly. And when it happens, Luke, you'll be there with me. Yeah, I'd like to come back though, just generally speaking. Has anybody tried to treat it like a cat and put like a big box out and see if the box traps it? Yeah, I think that you went to get, somehow he tricks you getting into the box and then you end up in the box. There is a big foot trap in Oregon though. Yeah, I've seen that one, Nate. It's like a, it's like a big old raccoon trap for a, uh, for a squatch. No update on it? There's like a live cam or anything. I don't know. I just think the thing would rip it apart no matter what. If an orangutan is like 18 to 20 times strong as a man, then a squash is probably like 75 times as strong as a man. What's going to hold the big fella back?

I don't think anything. Wow. That's a good question. This is the most bigfoot talk we've had in a while. Yeah, dude, I love it. So, Daniel, we've been, we get into the, into the creature space, but also really heavily into, into the biblical space with the biblical giants. And, you know, we've talked a fair amount about demons and the supernatural and how that all relates to, you know, to us, to the Bible, to creatures sort of in a weird, in a weird mix, right, Nate? I mean, we talk a lot about the ancient giants. We talk a lot about the origins of how do you explain creatures in the modern day. What you seem to be able to do, and your passion is, is what you've written about,

how do you explain these ghosts? We haven't really talked about ghosts on the show. But I'd like to start at the beginning, though. So, Dana, for you, like, how do you get into becoming a paranormal investigator? I think at this point, most of our listeners and stuff are pretty familiar with the fact that it's become quite a phenomenon on television. There's, you know, Ghost Hunters List and Ghosts University. I can't even remember the names of all.

There's paranormal you or something like. There's all these different shows. where these investigators go out and they essentially try to document ghosts and paranormal happening. So how do you get into that? How did you get into that from the start? I had kind of a paranormal entry into the world of the paranormal. I grew up in a very conservative Christian household. I accepted Christ as my Lord and Savior when I was four years old. And so it seems kind of odd that somebody who grew up in church from a young age in such a conservative

household would end up in the paranormal like this. I'd had a couple odd experiences that I couldn't explain when I was younger as I was growing up, but being a kid, I liked to be able to sleep without having nightmares, as I'm sure most of you guys do as well. So I didn't put a whole lot of thought into what was going on because I'd heard ghost stories before I'd heard the scary stories. So I'd just attributed it all to maybe being one of those scary stories that I was witnessing or experiencing. But then in 2010, I was watching a TV show, not a paranormal TV show. What got me into the paranormal was roller coasters, because I am a huge roller coaster fanatic. And so for me, if I can't be riding roller coasters, the next best thing is to be watching shows about roller coasters

to find out what roller coaster I want to ride next, do I need to travel to next to ride roller coasters? So in 2010, I was watching this marathon on the travel channel talking about like top five fastest roller coasters, top five warden roller coasters, top five loophers, etc., etc., and it's just loving it. Then finally, the last show came on in this series, and a little preview popped up for the show that was coming on next. And it said, stay tuned because up next we're going to talk about America's eight most haunted locations. So I saw that and was like, okay, that's my cue to find something else to do with my day after the roller coaster show is done. Because again, I didn't want to be watching that show and then have nightmares and not be able to sleep that night. Yeah. Well, as Travel Channel is prone to do, as soon as the roller coaster show finished, it immediately started playing America's 8 Most Haunted.

So by the time I'd located where I'd put the remote, I looked up at the TV and I saw the Stanley Hotel on the screen. and I grew up in Colorado. I currently live in Missouri. So when I saw the Stanley Hotel, I was like, hey, I know that building. I've been to Estes Park. Why is that one of America's eight most haunted locations? So I put the remote down and ended up watching the entire show. And by the end of it, I was hooked.

I wanted to have those experiences for myself. I wanted to see if all this was real. And if it was, then I wanted to also have capture that evidence for myself. the audio evidence, the video evidence. So I started looking into it in 2010. And in 2011, my best friend and I were talking about the paranormal. I'm not sure how we got on the subject. But since we discovered a mutual interest, as any best friends do,

we both jumped in together, both feet, formed our own paranormal team, and then didn't look back. So that's really how I became involved in paranormal investigation. That's funny, Nick Nate, I, you know, Daniel, I actually did some of the same. I didn't actually officially, but like we were in college, Nate, like, I used to, me and my buddies would kind of do the same thing, like, except not record and not, we just wanted to go get scared because we all grew up in the church too.

So we were like, we knew there was some kind of healthy respect for whatever was going on, but you kind of wanted to like, you feel infensible. You kind of want to scare yourself a little bit or at least kind of figure out what's going on. So, you know, I'm from Chico, California. I grew up there. So I've got stories, Nate, where we went to the graveyard late at night. this one that was supposed to be the oldest one.

And there was like stories of these headless dogs. And then there was, you know, and then we went to, we got into this theater supposedly haunted because people committed suicide in there. And there was, we went in there and it was condemned at the time we're closed. So we broke into it, essentially. Tis, tis. Sorry, mom. And, and we ended up going down and checking this thing out.

It was really creepy. I mean, like catacombs. And there were supposed to be these apparations on the, on the stage. And so in some ways, I think I kind of did that. I had a couple of experiences. don't scare me enough that I decided I didn't want to do anymore, especially one in the graveyard where we had or Nate, Nate, I don't have told you this story before, but we had orbs and there was, there was walking and stuff and we're in the, me, I was in the silent graveyard.

My brother was so scary to stay in the car. Yeah, you told me this one. Yeah. That was creepy. And I remember just running and like praying and then jumping over this like really old metal fence. And as I'm saying the name of Jesus, it cuts my palm. It was like the most bizarre experience where I was like, okay, I'm done doing this stuff. That would be traumatizing. But in that, in your book, you tell this crazy, this story. I'd love to hear you have you tell it because I read it. But it's the story of you and Dillon. You say you hadn't really talked about publicly, but you wrote in your book.

And it's, I think it would be a really good prelude into us talking about the relation between what ghosts are, the narrative of ghosts, and then also how that relates to the Bible in terms of the demonic, which you kind of just talked in platitudes about. But like, would you mind telling that story? because I think like if people haven't read the book, obviously you can read all the detail, but having you tell the story, I think it would be fascinating because it's such a crazy, kind of wild experience, like something I wish I could have watched, you know, if you, maybe you say you do have the video. I don't know if I want to see it now because I have some other weird stories about watching

ghosts, ghost shows in my house and then having stuff happen in the house. So I don't watch those anymore. I can understand that. Back in 2016, but 2016 for Dylan and I was like the big year. It was the defining year for us. In August of 2016, we ended up going to Nevada and did a road trip and investigated the Clown Motel, the Amagosa Opera House, and the Tonapal Minor Cemetery. These are out in Nevada.

So we did this Nevada road trip, and then the Amagosa Opera House is in California. And if you've watched Ghost Adventures, you'll know that those are three locations that they investigated. So we kind of followed in their footsteps. That was also the year that we did. we teamed up with the Dickens Horror Film Festival, and we became their official paranormal investigation team, so we got to investigate the Dickens Opera House that year as well. Well, as it would turn out, a paranormal convention was going on, and they reached out to us to see if we'd be interested in speaking at their convention.

So the Spirits of the Rockies Paranormal Convention contacted us. We said yes. That was being held in Cheyenne of September. So within about two months of each other, we investigated an event. in California, we became the official team for Horror Film Fest, and we were now going to be speaking at our first paranormal conference. We go up to the paranormal convention in Cheyenne, and we were too late for stuff on Friday night, but Saturday was the big day where they had all the speakers, and they had guided ghost tours and all that. So we spoke on Saturday in the afternoon, and then we joined for their investigation of an old opera house, no, an old theater, sorry about that, in Cheyenne. And before the investigation started off, they had a staged production put on that had kind of a paranormal connotation to it.

Since Dylan and I had a media production, we offered to do a kind of a little promo video for them, a recap video. So because of that, we got to do all the events for free because they wanted us to be able to attend as many events and things going on as possible so we could get video for the recap video. So I'm concentrating on the video, on taking video of the stage play. Dylan's hanging out with some other parental investigators that we met and became good friends with. What I didn't realize, because I was so focused on taking video, is that on stage, and they're acting, they were doing a whole lot of cult ritual-like stuff too, making it as real as possible. I go back, meet up with everybody to get ready for the investigation. and everybody's like, we need to be careful tonight because they did like some rituals

where they opened gateways and whatnot, but they never did any closing rituals on stage. And I'm like, I'm not sure what that has to do with me or the investigation, but because we never got involved in divination or cult ritual type stuff. So I wasn't entirely sure how to handle that. Well, on the investigation, up on the third floor,

which just happened to be directly above the stage, was an old boiler boiler room and as you know from watching horror movies boiler rooms are kind of the go-to location for scary stuff to happen and so I kind of had that little stigma in the back of my mind

going oh it's the boiler room this is supposed to be the scary room in the building well the stairway leading up to the boiler room there's a lot of stuff happening on that where people getting odd sensations Dylan felt like he was about to fall over even though he was standing upright at one point So we're just trying to figure out and get on video any evidence of the odd stuff happening at the boiler room.

While we're doing that, I heard like your growl sound come from the boiler room. So I'm like, hey, Dylan, we need to stop this. I just heard a growl from behind the boiler room. So he grabbed his camera. I had my camera. You're walking to the boiler room, looking, not seeing anything, not hearing anything. And then I come across this old dentist chair, I think it was. I was like, okay, I'm going to sit down in this and see if that doesn't.

doesn't cause some activity that happened to the spirit to respond to me. I get ready to sit down in and I hear this loud bang like somebody pounded on the wall next to me and I jumped and like, Dylan, something just banged on the wall next to me. And that's the last thing I remember. After that, all of a sudden I felt my whole demeanor change.

Like I felt anxious. I felt like I was lost. I couldn't really see anything. I couldn't really hear anything. I didn't exactly know what I was. and I was like, oh no, I think another entity is trying to possess me or take me over. And I turned around to tell Dylan that, and all I could say was, I can't talk. Those were the only words I could get out.

I couldn't see Dylan. I couldn't see anything around me. I couldn't hear anything. I don't know if Dylan said anything back to me. All I knew is that something was wrong. I wasn't feeling me, and I couldn't say anything other than I can't talk. For whatever reason, though, I noticed that my camera was pointed down at the ground. I was like, oh, I need to raise it up like a good videographer and be getting stuff on camera.

So I left it back up. But then after that, I don't remember anything else. At some point, another friend of ours who joined us for the conference came in, along with the lead investigator from the paranormal team, who was leading the investigation of this place that we became good friends with. I don't remember them coming in. They all start talking with Dylan, and to me, apparently, but I don't remember any of that. The only thing I remember is that the lead investigator of the other group looks at me and goes, what's going on, Daniel?

And I turned and had like a huge smile on my face and just said, I can't talk. And all I could hear, the only words I could hear in that whole time was when our other friend would look at our EMF meter and go, oh, weird, it just hit 66.6 degrees. He mentioned that a couple times and that was the only thing I could remember hearing and understanding during this whole encounter. next thing I know I suddenly just go oh hey guys I think we should get out of here I was like wait whatever it was just left me wow like it was just instantly like it came on instantly it left instantly and I was back with everybody and uh like yeah we need to get you out of here so they rushed me out of that room I went downstairs and met up with the rest of

the team that was leading the investigations here because at the place because by this time the public investigation had ended. And the rest of the members looked at me and were like, are you okay? I was like, yeah, I'm fine. Why? And they go, well, you were extremely pale. It's like the age old adage of, you look like you've seen a ghost. And I was like, yeah, I feel fine.

They're like, you should get outside. I'm like, no, I'm fine. I'm fine. I'm going to go back and do some more investigating rovester here. And the rest of my team and the lead investigator came downstairs and like, no, you need to get out of this building now. So left the building. and that was that.

That experience was something I never expected to happen, something I never experienced before up to this time. And I knew it was, I had a feeling it had demonic connotations behind it. But instead of turning to the Bible for answers, I looked at humanistic, secular reasoning. I turned to the internet to start to find ways to protect against dark energy and demonic energy. and that ultimately ended up leading me into three years of being more of a new age Buddhist and Christian.

It was two years later that I finally had the courage to actually go back and look at the video footage from that night. And it still to this day is kind of blood chilling to go back and watch that. Because at one point, we captured some audio where we just hear, it's what you crave. And you just see my lips move ever so slightly when you hear this wispory voice happen at that same time. And I don't ever remember saying that. I don't know if it was speaking through me. If I was saying that or if that was just the entity itself speaking and being caught on that audio. But I heard that and about deleted the video.

It scared me so bad. And then just after you hear it's what you crave. There's another word that we've never been able to figure out. it's either me responding, yeah, or it's saying it's what you crave Dan. But either way, it was like, that's not me talking. That was chilling. This is probably the most terrifying experience I've personally had dealing with this spiritual entity.

It's not the scariest experience I've had on the ghost hunt, but the scariest experience I've had dealing with a spiritual entity on a paranormal investigation. Wow, that's quite the story. man. One of the things that stands out right away to me is most of the time when people come on our show, there's some sort of authority. You give these entities some sort of in. Like, hey, I'm going to do this seance, or I'm going to play this game, or I'm going to say these words, and then you have control over me. And what's interesting about your story is you didn't do that, that you were in the room and this thing just took over you? Or did you give them permission somehow? Yeah. So I never actually gave

permission to any entities to do anything. That was something that Dylan and I never did. We tried to harmonize being Christians with being paranormal investigators. And part of how we tried to do that was we didn't try to go to the psychic side of things. We never tried to psychically connect or communicate with them. We never got involved with psychics. There was a couple times where on an investigation we did, we joined up with another team that had a psychic and it's like, okay, well, we can't really do anything about that. But when it would go out, it wasn't us trying to connect spiritually with the entities. We always try to do it from more of a scientific filmmaker-type perspective, going out to document what was going on and just get evidence. Since getting out of this, the more research I've done,

and the more I've come to understand it, even going out there and putting yourself in that position, you might not be consciously saying, hey, I'm giving you permission to come, do whatever you want. But when you're going out interacting, you are giving whatever interest you are out there, the demonic spirits out there, permission to come interact with you. And when you start doing that, you start giving them that permission and allowing them to come interact with you and drawing them to yourself. They're dark spirits, they're unclean spirits, and they're not going to play by the rules. You might be online and you might read or hear from other paranormal investigators that we have power over the spirits, that we can command them with our words

that they can't do anything that we don't let them do. But from a biblical perspective, that's completely wrong. Being demons, they have way more power than us. They're superhuman, supernatural entities. They've been around since the beginning of time, basically. So they know way more than us. And they're not going to play by the rules. It might seem like there's evidence out there from paranormal investigators that you do have power from where they'll listen to a human or paranormal investigator when you tell them when you tell them to leave or you command them to do something. Personally, I see that as them kind of playing along to get more people interested in this,

whereas if you can make people think that they can get involved in the paranormal and that they have control of the situation all the time, just by making a commanding word, and that's going to get more people involved, as opposed to if they play by their normal rules and just take control, the demons take control of the situation every time somebody goes out. That's going to scare a lot of people off from this pursuit. Yeah, this is fascinating, man. Great story and great questions you bring up here. One of the things I keep thinking about in my mind is authority and ultimately what Satan, I think, really wants.

to do, which is, I think he has limitations because we are in the image of God's Dale. So he can't fully take over us. There's just some thoughts there of like where the line is and when we finally give the keys over. And if every demonic possession is sort of a foreshadowing of the ultimate possession coming. Yeah. So that brings up like a good segue, I think in some ways into like the idea that like from a very secular viewpoint, right?

Or from the worldly viewpoint, like these are. Your experience, the paranormal would say, was a ghost and may even go insane, oh, if it was really belligerent, it was a demon. Like, there's a small, you know, maybe there's a small fraction of it or demonic. But we haven't really talked much about ghosts on this show. And there's this prevailing narrative, right, that you hear all the time that ghosts are just the spirits of people that have passed on and they're in limbo or they can come back, come freely, come and go. I want to hear your perspective on that because we haven't addressed it head on, right? We haven't talked exactly about like, okay, ghosts. Like, you know, if it's really people's spirit,

it doesn't make any sense in a biblical perspective necessarily. And how come there aren't billions of them, right, if all these people have passed on. So I'm not going to take the words out of your mouth, but I'd love to have you just talk a little bit about your thoughts on that. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And then you're, you know, because you went from paranormal to theology, so all these things have mixed together,

and your experiences would play into that. So we'd love to hear your thoughts on ghosts in, you know, as we think about them in mainstream, you know, media and TV and Hollywood and all that crap. Absolutely. The world knows a ghost as a disembodied spirit, especially that of a dead person that hangs around on earth after death. And when I got involved in the paranormal, like I said, I was raised in a Christian home, going to church weekly. So I knew these existence between heaven and hell, and I believe that there were both real places. so when I first got involved I wasn't exactly looking into answers for life after death

because I more or less thought I knew those solidly from a Christian perspective but as I was looking at at stuff online as I was watching videos watching the paranormal shows as I was having my own experiences it began to seem to me that there was a possibility that people could die and their spirit could still hang around on earth, at least for a little bit after they died. So I started getting into it and trying to pursue answers to how could a spirit of a person who died still possibly hang around on the earth? And the more I got into it, the more I got into it, the more I got into it.

By the time I got out, I realized I wasn't a whole lot different than anybody else in the paranormal as far as this was concerned, I was more or less treating it as looking for answers to life after death as to the fact that, oh, there might be a third possible option after we die that when you die, you might be able to hang around on the earth in the form of a ghost.

And that kind of shocked me, because once I got out and I looked at the biblical what the Bible had to say about what happens when you die, it is explicitly clear that there are only two options. option A, if you're a believer in Jesus Christ, if you're born again and saved, you're going to go to heaven. Option B, if you don't believe in Jesus, if you reject what he did on the cross, you're going to die unsaved and you're going to spend an eternity separated from God in hell. There is no third option. So if the Bible gives you only two possible options, any third option that pops up can be immediately rejected as a false erroneous option.

And the Bible is clear that when we die, Paul writes, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. He doesn't say to be absent from the body might possibly be still stuck on earth. It's no, to be absent from the body as a Christian is to be present from the Lord. And he's writing to Philippians, he says, I don't know which I want more. To die and be with God in heaven, or to stay on this earth to help you guys out. but he says, but to be, what's going to be most advantageous for you is for me to stay here and keep teaching you guys. So once again, we see Paul affirming that there's no middle ground there. And then the book of Hebrews, the author of Hebrews says, it's appointed for men to die once and then comes judgment.

Where you look in the Bible, even from the Old Testament all the way through the New Testament, there's only ever two options that are presented for what happens when you die. So from a secular perspective, it might, seem cool the idea that we hang around as ghosts after we die and even back in jesus's time there was that cultural belief that people could stick around as a spirit in the place that they died but biblically speaking it goes completely again what you see being taught in the field of the paranormal as far as ghosts and haunting research is concerned that it's not possible for us to stick around on earth after we die.

We either go to heaven or we go to hell. And that was kind of my evolution. And that's, so then the, yeah, so the obvious conclusion is then it's. So it has to be something impersonating somebody who lived on the earth. Yeah. Yeah. So you have these, so a lot of these experiences, right, are these weird mimicking things. And I know there's some terminology for it.

There's the residual hauntings or psychic imprints where you have these things that happen, they're manifestations and you have these apparations that, you know, know, very well pretend to be or appear to be, you know, people that have passed away or children or, you know, a cowboy, an old cowboy at the old hotel, those kind of things where you're, do you think, I mean, is this just just a layer, layers of deception in order to, you know, is it demonic just trying to mislead? Are they messing with people? Is it a, I do believe it's demonic deception at, at its core. Because like you said, there's two, to explain hauntings, there's two types of hauntings that paranormal investigators keep talking.

about you have residual hauntings which seem to be just energy left over at a place such as a good example that people will know about is Gettysburg a lot of people claim to see like soldiers walking across the field at Gettysburg even though there's no reenactments going on at that time or they might say well at this one building this person the owner used to always walk down this corridor at nine o'clock at night and now at nine o'clock at night people were here first step are sometimes see a mist floating down that hallway. And a residual haunting is more or less, in paranormal terms, just a replay of energy,

kind of like a videotape or video recording, just hitting play over and over and over again. And then you have intelligent hauntings, which are the ones where you get responses back, where if you ask a question, you might get a knocking sound back, or you might get something on your digital record or a video camera back.

I think they're one and the same. I think they're both at the core demonic deception. because people are curious creatures. If you hear a story of, oh, well, somebody keeps seeing a ghost walking down this hallway, well, you're going to kind of want to go see it too to see if this is real or not. If you hear stories about seeing military troops walking along an old battlefield on the eve of a large battle that happened, you're going to be curious and kind of want to go see that as well. So by doing these residual hauntings, it piques people's interests and gets them to go take that first step into the paranormal,

and they're not really having to worry about any sort of interaction back from the spirits to them. They're just going to see this repeated paranormal happening take place. And then on the intelligent haunting side, as I mentioned a little earlier, demons are superhuman supernatural creatures. they know more than we do, they're stronger than we do, and they've been around long enough to know how humans operate. As humans, we can impersonate other people pretty well. You watch TV, there's a lot of voice impersonations, and people who impersonate famous people.

If we can do that as humans, why can't a ghost, why can't a demon be able to do that for somebody who lived as well? So you have like an owner of a building who dies, and now demons know that people are interested in the paranormal. They'll go and imitate that person that died, the owner of this building, to make it think like the owner of this building is still sticking around. Or you might have a family member that died, and so you attempt to reach out and communicate with them just because,

as humans do, we get heartbroken and wish that we're here. And then the demon will come back and impersonate that person. But here's the kicker. When you look at these intelligent hauntings, and you see criminal investigators claiming that, like, oh, my grandma's still around, the owner of this restaurant's still around, oh, this person who got murdered here is still hanging around.

When they ask questions, the responses they get are snippets. The evidence that they get back is just a little tiny bit of stuff. that makes it seem like that person's still around. You don't get full-on conversations back and forth with this person about, oh, their favorite foods, how they actually died, what their normal routine was. When you watch the paranormal investigation shows, they ask questions. They don't, 99.5% of the time, they don't ever get any responses back that actually objectively answer the questions that they have,

even when they are dealing with an intelligent haunting. So here's the problem I have with some of these ideas is because, I mean, you, you, I feel like it's more complicated from what I've, I mean, I'm not, I haven't dove into these topics, but you have these stories like in Samuel 28 when, you know, Saul goes to, you know, the witch. Yeah. And she calls up Samuel. Yep. And he's asking, like, what does it look like? And then Samuel says stuff's directly from God. So does a demon impersonate the words of the Lord or what's going on there?

And there's other, the Bible specifically commands you not to do that. So it sounds like the, yeah. So I have a question. I have a question for you, Nate, about that. So here's, here's so I like to kind of approach this topic. if you have a mouse in your house and you want to get it out, you're going to call somebody who's an expert in pest removal, right? So if you call this expert in pest removal, and he shows up, he's asking all these questions like, okay, you have a mouse or have you seen it? What's it getting into? Have you seen it? Blah, blah, blah.

You tell him where it's at. He goes and looks and opens it up and he sees the mouse. if he sees that mouse screams and fear and goes running out of your house are you going to think that he's as legit as he's talking about? No. So when you read the account of Samuel and the witch of Indore,

she's a witch, she's known as a witch, which means that people know that she's contacted spirits or done witchy stuff for lack of a better term. So she's known to be legit as a witch. When she calls it Samuel for Saul, she sees the spirit and she screams. I'm going to turn to the page and quote this.

So in Samuel, Saul says, bring up Samuel for me, he answered. When the woman saw Samuel, she screamed. And then she asked Saul, why did you deceive me? You were Saul. That's in the DSB translation. when she saw the spirit of Samuel, she screamed. If she's been doing this her whole life, if she's known as a witch,

why is it that suddenly in this instance, she sees this one spirit so clearly that she doesn't know how to react except to scream. Yeah. I don't know. That's what got me when I read that. It's like the stories of like psychics that like they call themselves mediums

and then all of a sudden they have a real spirit. real, like a real, like, scary something happens and they quit. It's like that it was all fun in games because they knew like they knew the right words and the things to do. And then all of a sudden when something really shows up, it's like they didn't, that wasn't supposed to happen. Like that's not, that is not above my pay grade, right? I think I see, yeah, I think I, I think I definitely am tracking there.

So, but Samuel shows up, right? You actually believe that Samuel shows up in the story. I believe that this instance is a display of. God's power over life and death, saying that he alone has the ability or has the power over death, over the grave. Because if you look at Samuel's message, it's not a deceiving message. It's a message consistent, completely consistent with the messages that Samuel had been giving Saul up to this point. When you read the Bible such as King Ahab and Jehoshaphat, Ahab asks hundreds of prophets whether he should go into battle against Ramad Gilead.

And all the prophets said, yeah, yeah, yeah, you can go for it. You're going to have the victory. But Jehoshapheth goes, wait, wait, is there not an actual prophet of the Lord here? And Ahab goes, well, yeah, but he never tells me anything good. So when they bring the prophet of the Lord in, the prophet goes, sarcastically, goes, yeah, you'll be fine, go for it. Ah, go, come on, tell me the truth. And the prophet goes, no, if you're going to battle, you're going to die. And Ahab turns to Jehoshaphant, goes, see, I told you, he never says anything good about me.

So you have all these false prophets telling Ahab what he wants to hear. But then the prophet of the Lord is coming, telling him exactly what the Lord is going to have happened. And then you go back and you look at the Saul in the meaning of Indor. When the witch summons Samuel, Samuel says exactly. exactly what he had been saying all those times before the Saul. He doesn't say, oh yeah, Saul, you're fine,

the Lord is with you, go into battle. It's, why did you disturb me? Like, I've told you what I've told you. I'm not changing my message now. It's like, now stop trying to circumvent the Lord. He's left you already. It's like, have a good day. My thought is that there, it seems like there's some kind of holding place.

Because when it says, you know, after Christ was crucified, that the dead in Christ rose from their graves and appeared to many people. So, what is going on there? How is that possible? How could the dead in Christ come back into their bodies and show themselves to other people?

Here's a theology stuff for you, Dan. Honestly, I haven't gotten quite that far into my research yet. I know in ancient Jewish thought, they had shield, which was where they believed people went.

when they died, and they believed that there were two compartments, one for the good people, the righteous, and one for the unrighteous. I've been wanting to look into that. I haven't had the time yet to sit down and do some in-depth research. That's kind of what I was getting at. I heard a lot of theologians explain these things in that realm. That there could be people that get stuck, but I don't know. I feel like Nate, though, I feel like that part is what changed, right? This is my, take on some of that is that the idea of shiole and there was before christ defeated death there was like this place the holding place there wasn't this place prepared until christ is resurrected and takes power

over death and then these you talk to the dead rising and i think at that point this is just what i think and i might have bad theology but at that point the heaven is opened or whatever that paradise that Jesus talks about on the cross, who'll be with me in paradise. There's something that happens with the resurrection of Christ where he then defeats death and then there's the keys of Hades

are taken. So I don't think that it speaks to there being any residuals. I think I'm here with Daniel thinking like, listen, we've talked about the demons a bunch. Nate, it's the disembodies of the giants

or the Nephilim. And according to Enoch, a percentage of them, we're sentenced to stay here in limbo. And they have, and they've been here for a generation. they can speak all these languages. That's why we have people that are possessed

that speak all kinds of crazy dead languages. And then you have, they know a lot, right? It's this whole, you kind of talk about at the beginning. They've been around so long. They have all this knowledge. So I tend to be there. And I tend to think that that whole thing that happened with the resurrection has to do with Christ taking the keys of death back.

And then because he was resurrected, there was this vast resurrection kind of thing. And it's almost like that was like the power of Christ overcoming death in general. and so there was this sort of... Yeah. In the physical, there was this reaction to that. I feel like that's kind of... And I'm not theologian.

I just kind of... I know we talked about this. I've kind of read on that because that's one of the weirder parts of the Bible. You're a blurry logan. Well, it's one of the weird parts of the Bible, right? People... It's one of the blurry parts of the Bible

because the Bible is not fully clear. Yeah, we're for your pastor. We're for your pastor to talk about the resurrection of Christ, then be like, let me read on a little bit here because after he was resurrected, the dead rose out. and walked around for a couple days. They can't talk about that stuff because it doesn't fit into their,

the way they understand the world and the cosmology. But the empty tomb metaphor, Luke, the empty tomb might be more in multiple realms, right? Jesus comes out of the empty tomb, but maybe all these, the dead in Christ also are now out of the graves, out of the tombs. I don't know. I mean, I don't know. But we talk a lot about the parallels between heaven and earth, how they mimic each other a lot. That comes up a lot in our show and it makes you wonder that there are other things that are obviously there are other things going on. The veil is torn. We don't, we can't understand the spiritual warfare that Christ is doing. We just think we just see ourselves in that that that story and that's all we can kind of consume and understand. But it feels like you're right though, Luke, that from my understanding that something about the ancient cosmology and the way that they thought of different levels of hell and,

perhaps things changed, but I have to kind of go read more of that myself. But I don't know. I've listened to so many podcasts, I guess Danielsby, where people help these spirits leave by helping them, it almost sounds like they help them cross over. They're stuck and then they, it's, it's just weird. It's like they, until they help this thing do what it's trying to do, it doesn't sound like a demon. It doesn't sound like a demon messing with. them. It sounds like a spirit that's trapped and it can't quite cross over. And those are the ones that stump me. Most of what you're talking about, I agree and I understand. But when it's like, what the heck are these stories? These are bizarre and wild. I want to hear Dan talk about this because

for me, Nate, I don't get stuck there because I just don't, I don't buy that based on the Bible. Like, I don't buy that there's, it feels like a deception, right? It feels like this other idea that like somehow, I mean, it seems just like a weird deception. Like, because biblically speaking, you're, you're with the Lord. You're with the Lord. You're not with the Lord. Humans are trapped, right? They are trapped.

They're trapped between this life. I don't know. If a demon can be here and trapped, why couldn't a human soul? I think that's the judgment. I mean, I don't want to speak for this. Daniel. We're talking to. Yeah, I don't know.

But I feels like that's, it's all speculating. Yeah, anyway. What do you think about? So demons are angelic beings. And we're coming to this point. of the year, the Advent season, where God became incarnate in the flesh. And he became incarnate in the flesh. Why to save, to save us, to be our salvation, to live that perfect life, to provide the atoning sacrifice for our sins, through his death on the cross, his burial, and then his

resurrection, according to the scriptures. From an angelic perspective, they can't understand that because they don't have that salvation issue. They're created beings with wills. have the ones that fell with Satan, the demons, and then you have the good angels who are still doing the Lord's will. They don't have that atoning sacrifice that Jesus made. So they're either with God or they're not with God. And on our side of things, from a human side, we're with God if we believe in Jesus and put a faith and trust in him and what he did on the cross in his burial, his death, burial, and resurrection, or we're not with him if we reject Jesus' work on the cross. So when you look at it that way, if you're with Jesus when you die, you're going to be,

as Paul says, to be absent from the bodies to be present with the Lord. If you die and you're not with Jesus, you're not going to be present with him and going to be spending an eternity separated from him. If you look at the parable of Lazarus and the rich man in Luke, when Lazarus and the rich men die, they're basically immediately where they're going to be for eternity, as Jesus puts it. The rich man, because he rejected a righteous life, is in Hades. Lazarus, who lived a righteous life, although in poverty, is in Abraham's Burzum, which is what the Jews understood as being heaven. No implication from Jesus' teaching in that parable that there's even.

a possibility of a middle ground of being stuck on earth, of going to say, purgatory or some other realm before getting into heaven or hell. When they died, they were taken immediately to the places prepared for them after death. So when it comes to these people who are helping spirits move on, you always hear about it in terms of, oh, if you hear, feel, if you come across a trapped spirit, you need to help them go to the light. Well, what is the light? It's like, did the spirit, did that person who this spirit's impersonating know Jesus? Well, if they did, then that light's heaven and they're going to be present with the Lord anyway. Did this person not know Jesus? Well, then the light at the end of the tunnel is going to be the fires of hell. And I don't

know why you would be wanting to help this spirit get into hell if that's where ultimately that person's supposed to be anyway because I rejected Jesus' work on the cross. So I think, as Luke was saying, I think it's a deception on a demon's part where they're making it seem like we can go out to help trapped spirits. And if you're going out and helping all these trapped spirits cross over, you're going to keep going out and putting yourself in situations where you're involved in the paranormal and the spiritual realms. And you're not going to be thinking twice about what you're doing because you're doing a geared work helping these trapped spirits move on instead of focusing on the Bible and focusing on

evangelizing and making disciples of all the nations as were commanded to do in Matthew 28. Yeah, no, it's good. It's good to hear that because, you know, you hear some of these stories. I mean, I've listened to a ton of podcasts. That's kind of what got me into podcasting was just bizarre, bigfoot stuff and haunted stories. And I mean, there's just a, bizarre. There's a lot of bizarre stuff that just kind of falls outside of the realm of the natural. Yeah. I mean, just like I've heard bizarre stories like this one where like they were on a road trip. They pulled into this old bar. And it's like they went through a portal and it was like they walked into a bar from the 50s or something. And then they came back on the road trip weeks later and the bar was bared up and and had been out of business for 10 years.

And they were like, what? We were here. a month ago, we walked in and they interacted with people like they went back 50 years in time to when the bar was there in the in like the 50s or 60s. And you hear those stories and you're like, okay, maybe it's all made up fancy just to sell ads on a podcast. But you wonder like, okay, the demons are coming up with, they're literally opening up their own store to deceive people. I mean, this is just and you hear these stories over and over again. They're so bizarre and out there and why. And, wild, it makes you wonder. I think, well, I think about like quantums when I think about that more than I think of like a paranormal thing, like where, according to Einstein's theory, you can, time can be bent, right? Which means essentially you could bend time to a single point. And if you had a portal, I guess, for lack of better terms, you more or less time travel.

You could have time travel. And that's what I wondered, too. I was going to ask you about this, like with the Gettysburg thing, like in some ways, when I'm thinking about these like ones that seem like they're on loops and you have these old experiences that when they're not interacting, it makes me wonder sometimes if you don't have these like, and I don't know, and I think it very well could be deception on a demonic level where they're trying to get your attention 100%. But sometimes I also wonder if there's like, if time's not linear, if there's weird things for whatever reason because

what happens in the spiritual realm where time is bent and you kind of see a holographic replay. Like it's not like a ghost or like in the terms of what we think about it, but you're seeing like, I wonder about those kind of things too. Like when you don't have what you're talking about with the interactive hauntings. Like sometimes I wonder if there's like some quantum thing to it where you have, if we live in realms

and live in, you know, quantum theory talks about there's 11 dimensions. If you don't have places where dimensions thin or cross over and you have these, yeah, I don't know. I mean, then you start getting into the space where you can't really, I don't know how you even talk about that biblically.

It's fascinating. That's for sure. I haven't, I haven't gotten into quantum physics on a biblical level yet. When you do, and your brain is in super brain mode, we'll have to have you back. You can drop some quantum stuff on us. Well, dude, so appreciate the time, Dan. It's coming on, telling a story and just unwrapping a lot of the stuff we haven't talked about. So, thank you guys. Appreciate it. Tell people where they can find your book. If you want to plug anything, you can plug it now. I have a book called Biblical Explanations, The Paranormal. You can find it on Amazon, just, search my name Daniel McAdams or type in biblical explanations, the paranormal. You can find it there. You can get it in e-book version or get a physical copy mail to you.

I have a website called 612 Ministries. That's S-I-E-L-V-E-M-I-N-I-S-T-R-E-E-B-L-E-L-Y-L-E-B-L-L-E-L-E-B-L-L-E-L-L-I. I'll send that to you guys, if you guys want to share that link to. I have a condensed free version of my book on there for people to read and get a couple of the answers to the paranormal four. And I'm going to be coming out with a book actually detailing a biblical examination of witchcraft and what witchcraft teaches and believes and how it compares to the Bible believes that I'm hoping to release either in January or February of next month. and also starting to go into interviewing pastors and theologians and Christian leaders

about what they think the paranormal is. You can find that on the 612 YouTube channel, which you can find links to on Facebook page 612 Ministries. We're on the website as well. Thanks, man. I appreciate the time. Nice for all the stories. Absolutely, thank you guys.

Merry Christmas, man, man. We're getting closer. Merry Christmas to you guys too. watch out for the ghost just past Christmas future I hear they come around

at this time yeah don't be a scrooge that's right all right guys well thanks man appreciate it

if you see that ghost come around make like like St. Nick with Samarna and just punch that redidable ghost in face

all right buddy thanks again you guys have a blessed night thanks so much all right thanks

thanks