Blurry Creatures - EP: 86 The Second Coming of Saturn with Derek Gilbert

Episode Date: February 1, 2022

The incomparable Derek Gilbert returns to Blurry Creatures. The author, researcher, and host of Skywatch TV and A View From the Bunker Podcast joins us to dive into the ancient god Saturn, his true identity, and his impending return. We discuss Gilbert's new book "The Second Coming of Saturn", the connection with Mount Hermon, Genesis 6, the rebellion of the Watchers, and the final battle of Armageddon at the Mount of Olives. Was Saturn the leader of the rebellious “sons of God”? Was he overthrown, and by who? Is he the same entity that is going to rise from the Abyss at the end of days?   Guest: https://www.gilberthouse.org Support the show! www.blurrycreatures.com/members Socials instagram.com/blurrycreatures facebook.com/blurrycreatures twitter.com/blurrycreatures Music Kyle Monroe: tinytaperoom.com Aaron Green: https://www.instagram.com/aaronkgreen/ Outro Song: TimeCop1983: timecop1983.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Luke so often, people email us and they have this story. They're out in their woods and they're looking in the bushes. and they go, what's that? And when you are pouring your dog food and your dog's bowl, that's the last thing you want to say. What is that? What is the stuff coming out of this bag? You know, I don't think a lot of us think about maybe what we feed our dogs. And that's why we partner with rough greens.

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It's all natural made in the USA. And thousands of dogs are feeling younger, more energetic and healthier than they have in years. That's why we love it. I'm giving it to our two dogs. You know, I've got older dogs, Nate, as I said. And so, you know, since they've been getting Rough Greens with their food, I've noticed they have more energy, their joints hurt less, they're older. I mean, they were talking 12 and 13 years old. And Rough Greens really made a difference in their energy levels and the pep in their step. So if you want to do what we did, you can get a free Jumpstart trial bag for your dog today. Just cover the shipping. Go to Roughgreens.com and use discount code blurry. That's RUFFFF Greens.com discount code blurry. Rough Greens makes any dog food better. And according to the book of Enoch,

and this was the understanding, the universal belief of the early church, the early Christian church, for the first four centuries after the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus, was that demons were the spirits of the giants, the Nephilim, destroyed in the flood. And according to Enoch, these spirits were condemned to wander the earth, tormenting humanity without incurring judgment. And that was sort of like the penalty on humanity for agreeing to their terms. Yes, we will trade you the women's for the secret knowledge. These demons apparently still have contact with their parents down in the abyss. Now, again, this is speculation because the Bible doesn't tell us.

We don't know for sure, but that would be the only explanation that makes sense to me is that they're still in contact with these entities in the abyss and running messages back and forth. And running messages back and forth. Hey, welcome back to Blurry Creatures. This week we have Derek Gilbert, author and researcher, an awesome guy. Derek is one of the most genuine dudes in this space. Super cool guy, super smart. Hopefully you can hang with him. He goes fast. So get ready. But thanks for tuning into Blurray Creatures, a podcast about creatures, and we relate it all through the Bible and try to give you guys better

answers out there to like some mysteries like Bigfoot and all the ancient creatures that Where do they come from? And in order to do that, figure that out. We have to go back to the ancient world and ask some hard questions of what does this stuff spawn from? Is it all related? And this podcast has gotten heavy into theology, way more than I ever thought. But we appreciate you guys being along this journey with us. If you want to support this podcast, go to blurrycreatures.com slash members and help us make more episodes and do this full time.

That's the dream. That's the goal. and we're growing and every day someone will share something and how this podcast has impacted their life and honestly these messages we're getting are are hard to read sometimes because they're so they're just so overwhelming like wow we just two dudes talking about Bigfoot and who knew but we appreciate you guys out there seriously everyone who supports the show it's been a heck of a season for Luke and I in a lot of ways so anyone who signs up and supports the show It just gives us a little jolt of energy to keep going.

Can't say thank you enough. So let's get Derek on the show. And thank you guys for everything. The history of our earth is so different from what we can imagine. The Smithsonian, that if they found out about a large skeleton somewhere, was to go get it. I'm going to assume at least one person is right. Because if one person's right to bust the paradigm, it all goes back to the fallen chair. And the problem with the modern day church, they have a very truncated view of the supernatural.

This backdrop that's just pregnant with all kinds of meaning associated with this Mount Hermann event. And this guy defects from the kingdom. That's a big deal. Well, welcome back to the show, Derek. Thanks for coming on. You've written a new book. We can just hop right in because this is when the good stuff happens. The second coming of Saturn.

The book's out. Where can we find the book on your website or Amazon? or how Amazon, Barnes & Noble, SkywatchTV store.com has a hard copy and obviously Skywatch TV and through Skywatch TV whispering ponies ranch and the work that we do with royal family kids for kids in foster care. Get a better cut that way than if you go through Amazon or Barnes & Noble. But if you need an electronic version, it's available in Kindle and you can get that from Amazon and obviously that's instant access and you don't have to pay for shipping.

Yeah, it's even in bookstores, which blows my mind. going into one of the few remaining barns and noble stores out there and seeing a selection of defender publishing authors, including my own books on an actual bookstore shelf. That was really mind-blowing. My mother doesn't quite understand what it is that we write about, but she was really proud to see her son's work there on the bookshelf. That was pretty cool. I know that feeling like I remember when I didn't, the first time I saw my album in Tower Records, I was like, let's go. let's go and that was like the end of that was the end of records being in stores they were only in stores for a few more years after that but there was only like three copies but hey there was there was a copy so i know that feeling the tower records that's a deal yeah tower records was a place to go just to go just like bookstores used to be tower records i was just talking to a buddy about about best buy do you remember best buy when it was like 80% CDs and there was maybe like three TVs and some of things and the whole store was now you have to like look for it and it's half of a half of an aisle.

You know, there's 13 CDs in there. Hopefully you're not looking for one. Well, Derek, the new book. So it means super timely, right? And I either you send us some copies and a chance to read it and think it's a phenomenal book I recommend it to everybody out there because I think it's, it is very, very timely. But let's start from the, I mean, I'd love to start from the top.

So the second coming of Saturn, what we had the end of 2020, is really the, sort of the kickoff to this, correct? Like, can you talk a little bit about why Saturn, and then we can just kind of roll from there? Listeners, if you get in this book, Derek is like an encyclopedia of knowledge and the research in this book is so well done

that I want to pull on some of these threads today. But I would love to just start about just Jupiter, Saturn, what happened at the end of 2020, and why this is all important. And we're not, you know, we're not just talking about the planets. We're talking about these entities. and what the colliding of all these things, really, what that means?

Well, if we'd been planning ahead, I would have written this about a year ago so that it came out at the end of 2020. But we had worked on Giants, gods and dragons. And before that veneration, Sharon and I together, was kind of in the back of my mind all along because this entity, Saturn, known to the Romans as Saturn, occupies a slot in a pantheon that's been occupied by other entities and other cultures, going back to the earliest written civilization, Sumer. So I'd wanted to kind of write more about him and research more about him because he kind of got passed over in the previous books as we were dealing with the king of the pantheon. It was Bale, Zeus, Jupiter, who Jesus identified in Matthew 12 and in Revelation 2 as Satan. So we assume that he's the most important character. But this other entity struck me as one who was not getting enough attention.

And it dawned on me finally toward the end of last year. Hey, wait a minute. We got this great conjunction coming up on December 21st, which is the winter. solstice, which is a day of some significance in the occult calendar. This is the great conjunction, or the media, as the media called it, the Christmas star. So you had the two or two of the brightest planets in the night sky coming together in the closest observable conjunction in almost 800 years since 1226. And the significance and the reason that occultists and astrologers and New Agers were paying attention was that this happened at zero degrees of the constellation Aquarius.

Now, why is that relevant? Well, you've got the king star, Jupiter, representing the chief god of the pagan pantheon of ancient Rome, and his dad, whom he deposed and sent to Tartarus, banished him, meeting at zero degrees of Aquarius and inaugurating a new age. We are now finally 50 years after the Fifth Dimension Song in fully the Age of Aquarius, which, according to astrologers, is ruled by Saturn. The constellation is ruled by the planet Saturn, which represents, in their minds, a shift to a world that is less materialistic and more decentralized. They're looking at this as the beginning of a new world when things will be radically transformed. And it seemed to me that this was not a coincidence as this was happening at the same time. globalists and the World Economic Forum were pushing for what they called the Great Reset.

COVID-19 as mean gives us a golden opportunity to fundamentally remake global civilization. And of course, one of the hallmarks of their imagined new world is a world in which you and I will own nothing and we'll be happy about that. They'll be happy, right? Live in our pods and eat our bugs. That's what they're saying. Exactly. What's really interesting about all this is that this is very much, the way the ancient Saturnalia was described by historians of the classical period. They said this is essentially a time when things were owned jointly by all. The reason it was so popular was that slaves suddenly were able to hang out with their masters, the Roman historian Justin writing in the second century AD.

I'm going to quote this now. The first inhabitants of Italy were the Aborigines, his term, whose king Saturnus, Saturn, is said to have been a man of such extraordinary, justice that no one was a slave in his reign or had any private property. But all things were common to all and undivided as one estate for the use of everyone. In memory of which way of life, it has been ordained that at the Saturnalia, slaves should everywhere sit down with their masters at the entertainments, the rank of all being made equal. This is why it was believed in the classical world that Saturn or his Greek equivalent chronos ruled over a golden age.

So this great conjunction of 2020 in the minds of the astrologers who also called us the great mutation believe this is the kickoff to the new golden age. So Saturn was like he was the original communist, right? Essentially, right? Because he set in his elite position and then made everybody for one day you can be equal. You can all be equal. we're all the sense it's it there are no coincidence there's no coincidence right there's no coincidence and this is all I mean this this this sounds it's it's crazy this sounds exactly like

the fodder that being peddled across the globe by the by the media kind of utopia well exactly right exactly right and and this happened last year right in the middle of what would have been the saturnalia in Rome which ran from December 17th to December 23rd so on the winter solstice the 21st, we had this conjunction in the sky. Now, I went outside, we've got really, we really don't have much light pollution here out in the Ozarks. We're way outside the city. So I can see the Milky Way is plain as day, looked up in the sky. Okay, two bright points of light, pretty close together, but not enough to call it the Christmas star. This would not have gotten me on a camel to cross the desert for four months like the Magi. The Christmas star was something else again. But the

significance is that the astrologers and New Agers are looking at this as the inauguration. of a new golden age. Now, this is a reference back to the ages of history, as defined by the Greek poet Hesiod, who was roughly contemporary with the prophet Isaiah, 8th century BC, 7th century BC. And he wrote that there was a golden age when Kronos ruled in heaven. It was the pre-flood era, chronos, the king of the Titans. That was followed by a silver age where things were not quite as good. Humans weren't quite as productive or industrious. They were lazy and slothful. And then there was a Bronze Age. It was really violent and bloody and evil and it was wicked. And then the current age, which was the Iron Age, ruled by Zeus, Jupiter. And the gods made life difficult. And so they were

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Wow, that's fascinating. I never thought about it in terms of like the metal ages of, you know, kind of the downgrade from gold to iron. But it kind of reminds me of like Derek from Megalithic Marvels, Luke, when he's talking about how, you know, the construction gets worse over time. And it kind of feels like you could probably lump that bad construction in the age of the metal. But how long do you think these ages last, Derek? You know, is there any time frame, you think? I have no idea because if we call the Golden Age the pre-flood era, I put the, the floods somewhere in the sixth millennium BC, sometime before 5,000 BC.

Then you've got the silver age, if there is such a thing. Historians, archaeologists kind of use a similar system with the copper age following the stone age, followed by the bronze age, the iron age, and then our current industrial age. But what's interesting about those metallic ages is that they correspond to the four metals in the dream of Nebuchadnezzar, in the giant statue that he saw with the head of gold representing his kingdom of Babylon, the arms of silver and the chest of silver that was representative of the Medes and Persians, and then the torso of bronze. It was the Greek Empire and then the legs of iron that was Rome. So it was the same four medals. Probably not a coincidence. Because again,

they were roughly contemporary living within a century or two of one another, Daniel and Hesiod. But again, Hesiod put Kronos at the head of this golden age. The Romans took it a step further, they kind of rehabilitated the image of Saturn. And again, for listeners, the viewers, just to be clear, Saturn, Kronos, same entity by different names. And it was understood during the classical era, the Greeks and Romans, the Phoenicians, they called him Bail, Hamann, same entity by different names. There are probably eight, nine different names that are in the book, but they all apply to this same entity. And I kind of trace his career from the pre-flood era through Armageddon, basically. But,

But this belief that this golden age would return and that Saturn, who ruled over the golden age in years past, would come back to reign over that was something that was looked forward to by the Romans of 1st century BC, the time of the transformation of the Roman Republic into the Roman Empire. The poet Virgil who wrote just after the assassination of Julius Caesar, around 40 BC, wrote a poem called the Fourth Eclog. Tom Horn has written about this extensively in Zenith, Polyon Rising, 20th. 2012, Zenith 2016, the fourth eclogue where he wrote, Justice Returns, Returns, Old Saturn's reign with a new breed of men sent down from heaven. It's a long poem essentially dedicated to a politician by the name of Gaius Polio, who had just been elected consul, which is the highest elected official in Rome at the time, sort of like the president. And he was basically saying, yeah, because you're a poet. You're not making anything. You've got to get sponsors, you know,

so you flatter the people who've got money in order to, you know, earn, you. your living. So he was basically writing to polio and saying that during his reign, this golden age would return. But because Virgil referenced the Cumae and Sibyl, who played a really important role in the founding of Rome, it was sort of like a, we've got certain founding fathers, certain stories related to the founding of America that we consider important, you know, George Washington and skipping the silver dollar across the Potomac and chopping down the cherry. Stories like that. The Kumayan Sybil played a really important role in the founding of Rome. And Virgil, I mean, important enough that a set of scrolls that she offered to the last king of Rome before it became the Roman Republic, this would be around 530 BC somewhere in there, were preserved in the temple of Jupiter and consulted by a small group of men who alone had the right to go in and look at these scrolls. whenever there was a bad omen like a shooting star in the sky or a two-headed calf was born or something,

these guys would go and look at the Cumaean scrolls to find out what they had to do in order to ward off the anger of the gods. Because Virgil cited the Cumaian Sybil, it was taken seriously this poem as a prophecy. Even into the Christian era, Emperor Constantine interpreted this prophecy, this new breed of men sent down from heaven as the prophecy of the birth of Jesus Christ. which it wasn't, but that's how it was interpreted. And Virgil's work was considered prophetic, even to the point where, you know the way some Christians will take a Bible

and kind of flop it open to a page and put their finger down and then look at the verse to see what that verse means for them that day. Yeah, Bible roulette, right? Like you roll the dice and see what comes up. This is my prophecy. Exactly. People were doing this with Virgil's Aeneid, which is his epic poem of the founding of Rome,

where Aeneas, who is a survivor of the Trojan War, leads a group of followers from Troy and settles in Italy and eventually winds of founding Rome. It's an alternate origin story for Rome. People would do that with the Aenea. They'd flop it open, put the finger down, and that was the prophecy. Even as King Charles II, or King Charles I,

the first, rather, who was beheaded by Oliver Cromwell and the roundheads during the English Civil War in the 1640s. He did that. prophecy didn't turn out well for them. It sounds like Nostradamus almost, Derek. Like people just pull it open and find a quatrain and decide that this, oh, that looks like, that was like Hitler and in World War II, wasn't it? You know, it's kind of just, it sounds a lot like that. Like, you're taking these things and then creating something out of it that it isn't.

Exactly. So just for the slow kids, that that's me, right? I'm trying to catch up here. We haven't really talked about Saturn. I mean, I know in your book you talk about how Saturn was the leader of the, because we talk about Mount Herman all the time on the show. And that's kind of where our shows lived a lot. But he was the head of the rebellious sons of God.

Can we talk a little bit about that, why you think this entity started this whole thing? Because we just did an episode with Judd about Mount Herman. So I think it kind of fits in. Go back a little bit further and start there. Yeah, Derek, I was going to ask if you pull that thread, like on who Saturn is. Because I know that a lot of what the book is is tracking Saturn through the ages. But I'd love to go all the way back because we've talked a lot about the pantheons, right?

And this idea that there is this not divine. Infernal. Infernal counsel, right? And it's these, it's the watchers and this really bad counterfeit of what God did. And the book's beautifully, beautifully done in its mapping. But I would love to pull that thread if you wouldn't mind and take it back to who is Saturn. And what does this whole thing come from? And then, you know, we can play that thing forward.

I know you played it all the way to Armageddon. I'd love to talk eventually about some of the things we see now and then maybe looking forward. But if we could start and go back to the beginning. I kind of jump to the end with virtual. I love it. I love the virtual prophecies is crazy in the sense that the whole civil thing and the oracles. and this, it feels like a mystery religion almost, they would huddle up around these things and then, you know,

and roll the bones and see what happens, right? I mean, it's... The crazy thing is that you've got modern secret societies like, you know, the Freemasons who are taking it seriously as a prophecy. But to lay the foundation, the common thread amongst all of these identities worn by Saturn, Kronos, Bealhaman, L, Dagon, Asher, N-L, Kumarbi of the Hurrians,

Milcom of the Ammonites who the Hebrews called Molek is that they all had an underworld connection. The most well-known, of course, are Kronos and Saturn. And the story is that they once ruled, they became the king of the cosmos by overthrowing their father the sky god and castrating him in the process. Around 1940, it was discovered in Turkey that the ancient Hurrians had a very similar story with their father god Kumarbi, who became the king of the gods by overthrowing the sky god Anu and castrating him as well. And suddenly scholars realized, and wait a minute, this is older than the Greek version. The Greeks got this from the Hurrians and the text that they had found was preserved by the Hittites. So the Hurrians go back much, much farther. All of them connected to the underworld, the same story. They in turn were

overthrown by their son, the storm god. The Hurrians called him Teshub, Zeus to the Greeks, Jupiter to the Romans, and banish to the netherworld. And Lil, likewise, was by the end of his career, was in the Netherworld, when Marduk, who had storm god attributes, even though he wasn't technically a storm god, took over in Babylon. El of the Canaanites, his home was the location called the two deeps or the double deep bail, the storm god taking over. Same story, just repeated and told slightly differently in each culture. But the bottom line is this old god who had become the king by overthrowing the sky god wound up in the abyss. the bottomless pit, Tartarus. Well, in the Bible, we're told that there are angels who are currently in chains in Tartarus.

Peter writes this in 2. Peter 2. Verse 4, writing that for if God did not spare the angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell. Except that the Greek word translated hell is Tartorosis. It's the only place in the New Testament that Greek word is used. The only reference to Tartarus in the Bible, as Mike Heiser says, if it's in the Bible and it's weird, important. So we need to pay attention to this. So 2. And then Jude makes reference to them as well in Jude versus 6 and 7. Angels who had sinned who were in chains in gloomy darkness until the judgment. In the context of Jude and 2 Peter 2, it's clear that the only sin or that the sin of these angels who'd been punished was a sexual sin.

And that the only place we see anything like that in the Bible is Genesis chapter 6. The sons of God who saw that the daughters of man were fair and took wives of any they chose and created the Nephilim, et cetera, et cetera. This is the Mount Hermon rebellion that we're talking about here. So if we assume then that the leader of the rebellion named Shemiyaza in the book of First Enoch is the leader of the group currently in Tartarus, according to Peter, then it makes sense to connect Shemiyazza as the leader of this rebellion to the king of the Titans, who according to Greek and Roman mythology, were the old gods overthrown by the

Olympians and banished to Tartarus. So that's how, now again, it's a little speculative. The Bible doesn't spell this out, but I think there's a good reason to connect these entities. So Saturn is Shemiyazha in this theory. And like Shemiyazza, Saturn, king of the Titans or the Watchers or the Apakalu, if you want to use the Mesopotamian term, currently in Shains in the abyss. I have a question here, Derek, because I, Going backward, right, to the Hurrians and realizing that this story filtered downward, right, or at least through the ages. What do you make of the story of the sky god and then also the storm god overthrowing this? Do you think that's like a heresy or a deception or do you think

there was actually something like infighting where Satan as the storm god, who we know to be Zeus and by those names, actually did war with Saturn or Shemiyazza, who is the head of the watchers? Do you think these things actually happened or do you think this was just one of those deceptions like we're you know like we're insumer and they put the serpent god as the creator god and they did all this sort of heretical and deception from from the enemy but do you think some of stuff actually happened like there was this inner warring between between this faction of watchers that fell and because I think that's all very very fascinating that there's this same story and this castration whatever that you know whatever we want to glean out of that but how do you interpret

that as looking back at what and drawing the conclusions you have of who who Saturn really the origin story of who this entity is. My theory is this, that the sky god in these stories, Anu in Mesopotamia and in northern Mesopotamia, the Hurrian story. The Hurrians occupied the territory that's roughly where the Kurds lived today, northern Iraq, northern Syria, Oranos to the Greeks, Calos to the Romans.

I think that was the straw man that was set up by these fallen angels. to explain away the fact that God, Yahweh, the Creator, had kind of stepped back from creation. Not that he's not involved. In Deuteronomy 32, verse 8, as Moses is sort of retelling the history of the world to the Israelites, he said that when God divided the nations, he numbered them according to the number of the sons of God. Now, he divided the nations after the Tower of Babel incident. Mike Heiser's done an excellent job of explaining this. Essentially, God's saying after the Tower of Babylon,

which was an attempt to build an artificial mountain as a point of contact between the spirit realm and humanity. You know, we don't want to deal with you, God. We want to deal with these other gods that we were working with prior to the flood, the ones who gave us all this great secret knowledge that we weren't supposed to have. God said, all right, fine, going to divide you up, confuse your languages, and I'm going to place these lesser Elohim, angels, if you will, over the nations. And it's not a coincidence that the Canaanites believed that their father God, their creator God, L, held court on Mount Hermon with his wife, Ashera, and 70 sons. The number 70 in the ancient Near East, not just with Israel, the Hebrews, but all through the ancient Near East was a symbol that represented all of them. You know, not one left out, the complete set. So they had a God who had put that in air quotes, if you want, a small G God who had taken the place of the sky god who had been in their fake news version, chased off, castrated, he's powerless now, he's gone, he's out of the picture, and now we've got this new god, Dagon or L or Enlil or Kumarby or, you know, Kronos Zeus,

or Kronos or Saturn. He's now in charge until the storm god shows up and the storm god, his son overthrows him. I think that is the explanation, the fake news version that explains why these old gods are no longer walking the earth because they're now in Tartarus. Well, how do we explain this? They're still praying to Kronos or to Saturn, but he's in the netherworld. Okay, well, we'll say it was a rebellion. We'll say it was a civil war in that Zeus or Jupiter took over. I think that's my theory, but we can only guess what goes on in the spirit realm,

but that's my theory. But more specifically to your question, yes, I do think there's infighting that takes place in the spirit realm. They had the hubris to think that they could somehow win a war against God. Why wouldn't they fight with each other to see who was going to take over his throne once they win? Yeah, we kind of talked to a little bit about that with Brian Godawa. In his recent book, he was saying he had Egypt and Persia fighting and there wasn't a lot of harmony going on. And maybe you're right. Maybe they were kind of competing.

So when Saturn or Shemi Hazel gets deposed and sent to Tartarus, right? Does then, is that when Zeus, Satan then sort of assumes that role now that he's, now this king is deposed or the leader is deposed? And now Satan says, now I'm in control. And is that we're seeing too when we talk about this age of Jupiter and this age where now that he's locked in Tartarus, now this entity's locked in Tartarus is one who led the rebellion. Now we have sort of like this new, the new dude, the new, the new king or the new leader. Maybe I have this wrong. Is that this, is that the Satan care? Is that Satan or the, or the entity that the, that the Jesus identifies as Satan.

Yeah. Because Satan is not in Tartarus, obviously, because he's left to roam the earth, like a roaring lion and all these things. Right. So is that, is that, am I correct in those two things there? In understanding the way this occurred? Yeah. And the way I explained it just a minute ago may have confused them because I got events

out of order. I mean, obviously the banishment of the old guard, the watchers from Genesis 6, the sons of God, they were banished to Tartarus before the Tower of Babel incident. It was after Babel that God said, okay, these new gods, these new Elohim, you know, Beneha, Elohim will essentially administer Earth on my behalf. You'll deal with them instead of me. And those were the entities, I think, that became the new pantheons of Mesopotamia and Canaan and Greece and Rome and so forth. So, but they had to come up with a story to explain away, you know, while the sky god Yahweh, he's out of the picture, he's gone, he's powerless, he's been castrated,

and now these are your entities, these gods here, you know, Bail and Astarte and Resheff and etc, et cetera, et cetera, they've taken over. These old gods are down in the netherworld, and, you know, they, you know, you can summon them from the netherworld and ask them for favors, but you've got to go through these rituals. And that's a good chunk of the book is dealing with that because that's a practice that the Hurrians really invented. The word that we have in English, the word abyss, actually we had assumed, or I'd assumed for many years, came from the Sumerian word abzu. But it turns out in doing some reading, guys who've been studying this their entire careers, that it's actually the Hurrians. And their necromanic ritual pit, the Abbe, that appears

to be the source of the Sumerian word, abzu. So the hurry. Northern Mesopotamia actually appear to be the source of this. And the thing that startled me after Sharon put me out of this research was tracing the hurry and culture backward to find that originated in the middle of the fourth millennium, fifth millennium BC, around 4,500 BC on the Erarat Plain. I mean, the Errorat Plain, that's below the mountains where Noah's Ark came to rest. And these are the ones who brought this practice of digging a ritual pit and summoning entities from the Netherworld, which frankly continues to this day.

Those are the descendants of Noah that are out there trying to contact these old gods before the flood that God just rescued them from or at least a couple generations away from them being rescued from. That's fascinating. That's one of the questions I had actually in reading the book, Derek, was we know these entities biblically speaking are in the abyss. They're chained in the abyss underneath the earth. They're locked in this prison for their wickedness.

And yet they continue to have influence. And like you talk about, they're able to be some. Can you talk us a bit about how that, how that happens, how they, like how these things continue to have influence, even though they're imprisoned. And maybe how the Anstance channel that, because I think that's all really interesting stuff. I hadn't kind of made my mind blow a little bit thinking, because you think you know that, right? You know that the evil has this influence, even in the world today. But they're like, you know, it's like they're calling from jail. Like they, they're able to somehow.

Yeah, I think that's the closest analogy. I mean, how is it a mob boss or a gang leader can still influence what happens out on the streets? You got minions. And according to the book of Enoch, and this was the understanding, the universal belief of the early church, the early Christian church, for the first four centuries after the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus, was that demons were the spirits of the giants, the Nephilim, destroyed in the flood. And according to Enoch, these spirits were. condemned to wander the earth, tormenting humanity without incurring judgment. That was sort of like the penalty on humanity for agreeing to their terms. Yes, we will trade you the women's for the secret knowledge. These demons apparently still have contact with their parents down in the abyss.

Now, again, this is speculation because the Bible doesn't tell us. We don't know for sure, but that would be the only explanation that makes sense to me is that they're still in contact with these entities in the abyss and running messages back and forth. and running messages back and forth. We were talking about that on our episode with a previous guest, and we had a long conversation about the disembodied spirits and the whole idea of what disembodied actually means. And he was saying, he had some wild ideas that seraphim can actually put their spirit

in other entities as well, but also be in a different location. It gets harder and harder to understand. I want to ask you a question kind of about the golden age to kind of go back a little bit. it seems as though on our show we've been kind of laying out that the golden age was the closest to I guess their idea of utopia their idea of perfection and slowly like the sands of time this knowledge has been just draining out and so this new age that's coming is it just going to be like you're saying it's the reboot of the golden age but is it's it's sort of morphed in with modern day technology as well what do you see coming and how does it emulate sort of the

original golden age like what what's coming around the bend? so to speak. Well, I think it'll be a lot like the original Golden Age, which was the reason God had to send the flood. It was becoming hell on earth. One of the things that blew our minds, Sharon and I produce a weekly Bible study called the Gilbert House Fellowship. We just sit down and go through the Bible verse by verse, and we read through it in chronological order, which is kind of interesting when you get into the time of Saul and David, because then you're starting to skip back and forth between First and Second Samuel, First and Second Kings, and then the Psalms, and then back and forth, but it gives you an interesting perspective on what was going on. As we were reading

about the flood, notice that in Genesis 7 and 8, the Ark of Noah was on the water for 150 days. I just kind of filed that away. It's like, okay, interesting detail, but there's nothing that's included in the Bible that's by accident. Well, when we get to the end of the Bible in Revelation Chapter 9, there's a character called Abidon in Hebrew Apollion in Greek, which just means the destroyer. he is the king over those entities that are in the bottomless pit in the abyss, those locust-like things that come out and torment humanity, all of those who don't have the seal of God in their foreheads. And interestingly, we didn't notice this until we were going through our study. It's like, wait a minute, they get five months. Do you remember where we saw that period?

Mentioned before. Numbers in the Bible are often symbolic, the number three, the number seven, the number 10, the number 40, 100. Those are often used symbolically. The number 70, representing all of them, but the number 150, which in a 30-day lunar calendar equals exactly five months. It's like, oh, okay. So these entities who led this rebellion that created the giants, and for their rebellion, were punished by being sent into the abyss, the bottomless pit, were there watching

helplessly in chains for five months while their children, the Nephilim were destroyed in the flood of Noah. At the end, they get out for exactly five months to torment humanity, those who aren't sealed by God. It's not a coincidence. It's a bookend event. Those are the same entities coming out who went in in the flood of Noah. And this is one of those details that you tend to skip over if you're not reading the Bible out loud. Sharon and I recommend this to everybody who asks, read it out loud because that forces you to pay attention to details that you otherwise just skip right over. It's like, yeah, well, they talk about being like the days of Noah.

And then it really is, it's like a, it's like a reciprocal or mirror image, right? You have this whole, right, what happened before will happen again. And it will be not a golden age. It will literally be hell on earth because as Revelation 9 says, people will seek death, but death will flee from them. And the interesting thing about that is that the Greek word death is thanatos. That's the name of the rider on the pale horse in Revelation 6. That was an entity.

It was a god of death. The Greeks knew him very well. So they will seek the God of death. And he will, sorry, I'm out of here. Yeah, the golden age is kind of a deceptive, you know, it's sort of tricky when you say that. It is. It's like, it's golden in one sense because there's this technology, but it's morally bankrupt along with this technology. So we have this advanced knowledge, but it's godless.

So it is hell on earth. And that's where we, that's where our society is right now. That's how it feels like we're moving towards. It's like we're so advanced in our technology, but we're more and more godless every day. I've gone back and I rewatched the very short-lived series Caprica, which is the prequel series to Battlestar Galactica. Because it tells the story of the creation of the Sylons, the murderous artificial, intelligent robots that wanted to destroy humanity.

But there was a theological thread that was all through Battlestar Galactica. And in Caprica, it's there as well. And what it does is it shows, unlike Battlestar Galactica, which is humanity desperately trying to survive against these murderous silons, Caprica shows a human civilization that is just so wealthy, it is basically pleasuring itself to death, similar to the Netflix series Altered Carbon, where they'd figure out how to grow clones that were identical.

Basically, if you were rich enough to buy clones, and you were smart enough to regularly back up your memory, you could go do anything. Okay, you'd do something stupid, you'd get run over by a bus, no problem, you just take your memory, chip or what they call it a stack and put it in a new sleeve, a new body, and there you are. So what you had was essentially eternal life. But because there were no consequences for your actions, it was hell on Earth. Caprica, the same way. People had figured they developed a

virtual reality that was lifelike, immersive, almost like the holodeck on Star Trek the next generation. But hackers had figured out how to create a secret virtual reality where anything goes. And in the very first episode, they showed this nightclub where, you know, as much as they could get away with on network television at the time, but they showed a virtual human sacrifice to the God Hekety or the goddess Hekety, the goddess of the underworld. We are moving in that direction where this type of virtual sin people will engage in thinking that there are no consequences to it. It's not really real. Well, is it or is it not? I mean, what happens to your spirit when you're participating in this virtual bloodletting? I mean, you could even ask that question about people who really, really enjoy torture porn films, like, you know, the Saw series, for example. That's where we're going. I mean, we think there are no consequences to it because it's all virtual.

It's, you know, technology will eliminate the risk of poor choices. But radical life extension without, with unregenerate hearts, that that's hell on earth. Yeah. Derek, one of the one of the things that I would love to just kind of just to kind of just to walk through a little bit. bit here because because we're talking about the second coming of Saturn and we're now in this you know as you said in the age of Aquarius and the age of Saturn and and the occult and the elites and all this stuff on the you know all these powers that be like how we're Americans. Nate and I a lot of people listen to our show are Americans but not not everyone obviously and so there's a very interesting

connection to America in your book and I would love to talk just a little bit about that because it's a lot of symbolism stuff that being an American I knew a little bit about because I you know seen the Fall Brothers, Belly of the Beast and knew some of the symbolism and the masonry stuff that was there. But I would love to talk about how that relates specifically to Saturn and the things that are going on in America that seem to be ushering in or looking to this return of this entity. Because it was eye-opening. And you wrote this. I would love to have you walk through a little bit about that because I just think people need to understand this. I think people need to understand the symbolism what's going on and what some of the dark.

forces, dark people and dark things in this nation are really looking for and trying to make come about. And before I get to that, I think one thing I thought was really interesting was that Molek is one of the names and the entities that is really just a refurbishing of Saturn. And we see Molek in the Bohemian Grove. And we see Molek is being this God, there are people burned and sacrificed their children to. And it's, in some ways, it's still happening in the Bohemian Grove with our elite class. We know that. Alex Jones. got in there. Say what you want about Alex Jones,

but he broke in there and saw this whole thing happen, and we know what's going on. And you broke down some of the symbolism and stuff in these most sacred places, and they use that sort of in air quotes here in our country. I'd love just to talk a little bit about that. I think it's fascinating. Well, credit to Tom Horn,

who really broke the ground with Apollyon Rising 2012 and seen in 2016. Sharon spotted some of this too, and she kind of directed me again. You know, she's the smart one in our house. Molek, yeah, that was an interesting connection in finding that it's well known to Bible students that Molek and Milcom are the same entity. Milcom was the name of the chief, excuse me, the chief god of the ammonites. But a scholar recently did a study of the ammonite, what they call the Anomasticon, the collection of names that they've found from Ammonite texts.

And in the ancient world, almost everybody had a name with a theophoric element or a God name as part of the name. But they couldn't find any Ammonites with Milcom in the name. Well, Milcom is similar to the Hebrew word Melech. It just means king. So, okay, it's a title. The number one most popular theoporic element among the Ammonites was Ilu, which is their form of the god, L.

So L, who we, as I go through the book, I showed that it was well known in the ancient world. L was Dagan, was Enlil, was Kumari. They all knew this was the same entity.

Apparently, Milcom, who the Hebrew is called Molec, was just another version of this same entity. So keep that in mind. Same entity. Molek, Saturn, Kronos, Bail Himan. Child sacrifice should be no surprise then.

Saturn, Kronos, Baalhamon, all accepted child sacrifice. And of course, the Bible is full in the Old Testament of God warning the Israelites, do not pass your children through the fire to Mulek. What surprised me was realizing that all of this was connected to the practice of necromancy, summoning spirits from the netherworld.

When you see it, there's warnings against contact, Mollick, it's always in the context of trying to ask the underworld gods for favors. Well, this is the entity who secret societies have been working toward bringing back and welcoming when he shows up and the art and architecture of the United States Capitol has this imagery all through it. And again, credit to Tom Horn for being the first to spot this. He wrote about the great seal of the United States and how it cites Virgil's Fourth Eclogue, Novos Ordo Secorum, New Order of the Ages, comes right out of Eclogue 4. So crazy. Henry Wallace and Franklin Roosevelt, who were responsible for putting the

unfinished pyramid, the reverse of the Great Seal on the back of the dollar bill. And then Roosevelt taking the front side and the backside of the symbol and reversing them so that the unfinished pyramid is on the left, which makes it look like that's the more important of the two symbols. Why? Because according to Henry Wallace, this represents the United States, assuming its position as the new capital of the world, at which point the grand architect would return and the all-seeing eye would be fitted atop the great seal pyramid as the apex stone. This is what they're looking for. Now, how does this fit in with the United States Capitol? What surprised me was discovering that the United States Capitol is called the capital,

not because that's what you call the building where your legislature meets. In 1799, that wasn't true. There was only one building on earth where a legislature, met in a building called a Capitol. And that was the Virginia legislature in Williamsburg. But Thomas Jefferson, as they were laying out the plans for the new capital of the United States, its capital with an AL, Washington, D.C. The architect wanted to call the place where Congress met Congress House. Jefferson insisted on calling it the Capitol because that's the name of the Temple of Jupiter in ancient Rome. The Temple of Jupiter Optimus Maximus was the Capitolium. And it Turns out it was called the Capitolium because it sat on Capitoline Hill, which in turn was called the Capitoline Hill because when they were digging the foundation for the Temple of Jupiter, they found a severed head, a well-preserved severed head, which apparently in ancient Rome, especially for the Etruscans, who were like the northern neighbors of the Romans.

And the king of Rome at the time was an Etruscan by the name of Tarkinius superbus. he the the Etruscans considered the severed head a good omen it was how you communicated with the dead this whole concept again this idea of talking to the dead so because of this this omen which they said was a good sign for the future of rome they called it capitoline hill they named the temple the capitolium and hence the united states congress meets in a building called the capital Now, I don't think Jefferson was a Jupiter worshipper, Satan worshiper. I think he was just trying to evoke the image of Republican Rome, because the idea of a republic was kind of a novel concept in the early 19th century. This was not a new thing, which was not a common thing around the world.

Most countries in the Western world were still ruled by monarchs, but there it is. And as they built the Capitol, did a couple of things that were really interesting. They wanted to build into the crypt, which is the main floor of the capital, a chamber into which the body of George Washington would be on permanent display. And Martha apparently agreed to this, but then the war of 1812 interrupted. The British burned the building. And so that delayed things long enough that George's descendant said, no, that's not going to happen. But the plan was to put George's body on display in a room off of the crypt with a hole in the ceiling so that people, and the rotunda, the floor above, could look down and see George's body down below.

Now, what's the significance of that? Underworld. Well, exactly right. In the 1860s, they commissioned a painting for the underside of the dome. Now, the temple of Jupiter in ancient Rome did not have a dome on it. That was the Pantheon in Rome, which was dedicated to all of the gods of Rome. But there was a hole in the ceiling. it's there to this day, covered with plexiglass now, but essentially that opening to the sky represented the portal through which the spirit of Caesar

would ascend to become one of the gods, apotheosis. Likewise, there is an oculus or an eye on the underside of the Capitol Dome in the United States. Now, it doesn't open to the sky, but the painting that was put up there in the 1860s by Konstantino Bermedi shows George Washington becoming a god. It is called the Apotheosis of Washington. And I argue in the book that the symbolism, the way George was portrayed with the purple

cloth wrapping his legs, purple being the symbol of royalty, and the fact that his legs were completely wrapped is reminiscent of the way the statue, the idol of Saturn was displayed in ancient Rome, where his legs were wrapped in wool except during the one week of the Saturnalia in December, representing his confinement in the Netherworld. So if this had all come about, the way it was intended. You would have George Washington in the crypt with an oculus leading through the rotunda and then another oculus leading up to the dome and the painting depicting George Washington becoming the head of the pantheon and ruling over a golden age represented by the signs or the

scenes painted around the outside, agriculture and commerce and industry and so on. So I think that is the symbolism that we've got there. I think Tom Horne was right. The obelisk and the dome representing the, say, generative power of the male and female was right on that secret societies, the Freemasons in particular. Wow. I wanted this to represent the creation or the engendlement of a, the return of this entity. Where Tom and I differ in opinion is that he believes it's the Antichrist. I think it's bringing back this entity who led the initial rebellion at Mount Hermann.

Tom calls him Apollyon. I just don't think Apollyon is the Antichrist. I think Apollion, Abadon is Saturn, Shemiyazah, the destroyer. They're being released from the abyss in Revelation, right? Right. Yeah. This obelisk and dome symbolism is all over the world. I mean, yes, there's a very famous obelisk and dome in Vatican City at St. Peter's Basilica.

But look at just about every mosque on planet Earth. So one thing is it's confusing. It's like, when people come on our show, a lot of people, they don't think there's actually a Satan. That's been very hotly debated on our show. Is there actually one leader of all these? Are there multiple? I think Brian Godawa was talking about this a little bit.

And they all have different names. So that gets really confusing for me personally. I'm just always kind of like, I don't, how do I keep track of this? How do people listen to our show keep track of this? Is there a simple explanation for what do you think is important? What are the characters we should know about? I think as, you know, Chuck Missler said that it's likely that we lost access to probably, you know, six higher spatial dimensions when we got kicked out of the garden. And so these entities are at a distinct advantage, which I think is why God told Moses, don't consult with necromancers or mediums.

Do not try to consult the spirit realm because we're not equipped to deal with these entities. I mean, Paul wrote that even Satan appears as an angel of light. John wrote that we are to test the spirits for not all are from God. We see into this room, in the words of Paul, as though we're looking into a glass darkly. In other words, we're looking into a mirror in a darkened room. So everything is backwards and dimly lit. So we're only getting glimpses, shadows, and shapes. And we're trying to draw conclusions from what we cannot see clearly.

Are there 200, as the Book of Enix suggests? don't know. The Book of Inic was not in the Bible. It's not part of the canon of Scripture, so we can't take it as 100 percent accurate for sure. The Bible doesn't tell us how many there are. Yes, we know from the New Testament, and again, we have to read carefully because

there are just some clues here and there. When Jesus is confronted by the scribes in Pharisees, and he's accused of casting out demons by the power of Bielza Bull, this is in Matthew 12. Beelzebel means bail the prince, as in Bail the Prince of Demons, Jesus responds by saying if Satan

cast out demons by his own power how will his kingdom stand so we know that by the New Testament period Satan has a kingdom and of course during the temptation in the wilderness Satan offers all the human kingdoms of the earth to Jesus if he would just bend the knee

but when you go back into the Old Testament Satan is not even a proper name it's Ha Satan the Satan it's a title it's like the accuser right the accuser the adversary, the prosecuting attorney. It's a job description.

It's possible that more than one angel had that position throughout history. But by the New Testament period, it clearly was a proper name. Jesus used it as a proper name, and he said he had a kingdom. In the book of Revelation, it appears pretty clear that Satan is the leader of this rebellion in the end times. But there are a couple of other interesting entities that we read about in Revelation. The beast who emerges from the sea, Sharon and I are going to write a deeper study on this at some point, probably not this year, maybe next year. The beast that emerges from the sea. The sea in the Bible often represents chaos, primordial chaos.

The fact that this entity has seven heads, ten horns, suggests that we're looking at the same primordial chaos monster that shows up in ancient Mesopotamian stories going back to the middle of the third millennium BC. where a warrior god had to defeat a chaos monster or chaos dragon in order to establish the known world, the natural world for humanity. This was called Tiamat by the Sumerians, Yom by the Canaanites, typhan by the Greeks, Leviathan in the Bible. Leviathan. So we argue that the spirit of Antichrist that emerges from the sea, from the abyss, from chaos in Revelation 13, is Leviathan. So he's got a role to play. But when you look at the Gog-Megog war, we argue that Ezekiel 38 and 39, that war ends in Ezekiel 39 with Armageddon. And we go into explaining why that is in my book's Last Clash of the Titans and Giants, Gods and Dragons.

So Leviathan, Antichrist, Gog, appears to be the commander-in-chief of Satan, the leader of his army, going into the battle at Armageddon. You've also got the woman in red, the scarlet woman, mystery Babylon, who shows up in the book of Revelation. Sharon has made a really good case, and I think she's right about this, that this is the ancient entity called by the Sumerians Inana, also known as Ishtar to the Acadians, Astarte in the Bible, or Astaireth. She went by a number of different names, Aphrodite to the Greeks, Venus to the Romans. She thinks that she is going to run things in the end times, I think. But then the ten kings who serve the beast will turn on her and they will burn her and devour her flesh, which is interesting because these entities have had us humans burning our children to them as sacrifice. Now they're going to turn on her in revelation. And then you've got this character called the destroyer, Abidon or Apollyon, who I argue is Saturn, Kronos, Bealhamon, etc., etc. Shemiyazah. What was really interesting to me was finding this connection between the Mount of Olive. and Revelation 9 and the emergence of this entity in Revelation chapter 9, Solomon was coerced or cajoled or persuaded to build a high place to the Ammonite god at Milcom, Molek, on the Mount of Olives.

Now, if you've been to Jerusalem, you and visited the Mount of Olives, you see that you are 200 feet higher than Temple Mount, which is just across the Kidron Valley. So you're looking down from the Mount of Olives onto the Temple Mount. So Solomon goes and builds this temple to Yahweh, the creator of all things, who personally appeared to Solomon after the temple was built. I mean, that would be an event you would think you'd remember. And yet, toward the end of his life, he builds these high places on the Mount of Olives to the East, which is the direction that the doors of the temple open. So you look out from the temple and you're looking out at the Mount of Olives and seeing the high places there for Astarte. mystery Babylon, the war god Kimosh, who is later known as Ares and Mars, and Milcom, King, L, Molek. And because of this, in the Second Kings, we're told that the priests referred to the Mount of Olives as the Mount of Corruption.

But when you look in the Hebrew, it's Har Ha Mashkeith. Well, again, that's that definite article, The, Har Ha Mashkeith. Mount of the corruption. When you look at the Hebrew English dictionaries, you see that Machkeith is often translated as destruction or destroyer. So I asked our friend Rabbi Zev Porat, Hart-Hatmash-Kith, could it mean Mount of the Destroyer? And he said, hmm, yeah, that would be an accurate interpretation.

So I argue that this, because of the high place there to this entity, L. Saturn, Shemiyaza that the Mount of the Destroyer was the Mount of Olives. And I think that's why Jesus spent so much time on the Mount of Olives during the final week of his life. He gave the sermon on the Mount there during which he revealed most of what we know about the end times. I mean, Jesus, most of Jesus' pronouncements about what would happen the end times were there on the Mount of Olives. He was arrested there in the Garden of Gthemen. He was crucified in the Mount of Olives. He was buried there, resurrected there. According to 1st Peter 3, he descended there from the Mount of Olives into the abyss, where he proclaimed to the spirits in prison

who were imprisoned when they formerly did not obey in the time of Noah. In other words, he was talking to these same entities, El Shemmeaza, Saturn, Kronos, etc., declaring victory. And at 1st, Peter 3, 19, and 20, Peter connects this to baptism. Mike Heiser did a wonderful teaching on this during our tour of Israel back in 2018 at the Jordan River, which was awesome. This is why we baptize. Every time we baptize, we're declaring victory over these entities that are still chained up in the abyss, just like Jesus did during the three days that he was in the ground. During the three days that he was in the ground.

Oh, man. Okay, I'm getting in the Jordan River now. And then, of course, Jesus came back and ascended from the Mount of Olives. And according to Zechari 14, he returns to the... the Mount of Olives. And I think that's because this entity convinced Solomon to place his temple there and called it the Mount of the Destroyer.

Don't you think it's interesting, Derek, that Jesus went to Mount Herman and then also went to the Mount of Olives. And he stood on those places and basically declared his victory. Like, over these mountains, high places, these places of defilement. I love this, Nate. Like, you know, you read the Bible, you grew up in

church and you get all this stuff, but you don't understand. I don't think until you peel this back, do you understand like the supernatural implications of the things that Jesus was systematically taking authority over and undoing in the midst of this of this ministry? He's given this amazing sermon, right? The Mount of Olives is this defining part of his ministry. At the same time, he's like stepping on the head of the enemy at Mount Hermon and at the Mount of Olives in basically declaring sovereignty over the old gods or the, the, these that have that essentially had taken and enslaved, you know, his creation. It seems like there are always these tit for tat things. Like they do something here and then, you know, something else happens here. It's like,

it reminds me that playing that game risk where you're just like, you go back and forth, you go back and forth. And then finally someone at the end just takes over the whole board and wins, right? And it seems like there's these territories in these areas where it's, everyone comes on and gives us another clue of like, well, this is what actually happened here. Didn't think about that on the Mount of Olive. So we talked about the Transfiguration and Mount Hermon connection and what

Jesus does there. And then Judd talked about Cessori of Philippi and the gates to hell. Right. So this is the first time I've heard of the Mount of Olives being a significant location. Jesus essentially, after the Transfiguration came down and then from there made his way down to Jerusalem. So he essentially sent a flare into the spirit realm on Mount Hermon and then came to Jerusalem to fulfill his mission. Yeah. So yeah, it was it was okay, here I am. What are you going to do about it? And my guess is that the fallen realm assumed that because he was fully human, that he was vulnerable. So yeah. I mean, it was like Paul wrote, writes, if the archons, if the rulers of the age had understood the mystery that God was revealed.

look at I'm paraphrasing, they would not have crucified the Lord of Glory. Jesus basically provoked them into fulfilling his mission. So someone said in our member section, they asked if there was an inscription on Mount Herman specifically. They asked about that. Can you talk a little bit about that? Yeah. And I got to give credit words, dude, Doug Hamp in his book, Corrupting the image two, new information out of this text for the first time since it was found. Sharon stumbled across this. Now, this has been known to scholars for a long time. Sir Charles Warren, who was an engineer and explorer on behalf of the Palestine Exploration Fund, went over to the Levantz back in 1869. And in September of 1869, he climbed Mount Hermon. And he found inside the temple on the summit. It's a spot called Kassar-Ontar, the highest man-made place of worship on earth to this day, 9,200 feet above sea level. There's a Greek inscription on a slab of limestone about four feet high. It was about 12 inches thick, about 18 inches wide. And in archaic Greek, it read something like by the order of

the most high and holy God, those who swore an oath proceed from here. And it was brought back to London. Sharon found this because she was researching her Red Wing novels, her Red Wing saga series, and that begins with the Jack the Ripper killings. Well, Charles Warren, 19 years later, 1888, was superintendent of Metropolitan Police, Scotland Yard. So he investigated, led the investigation into the Jack the Ripper killings. This slab, this stone, was brought back to London by Warren, and is at the British Museum now. It was not unboxed until about 1903. Now, in Sharon's series, it was unboxed as soon as it got back and something evil came out of the stone, but that's, you know, fictional account, but anyway, the significance of this stone, though, is that, and scholars

have recognized this for more than 100 years, that this is a reference to the watchers. Now, the interesting thing is that the Greek inscription means it probably does not predate Alexander the Great's invasion of the Levant. So, all right, maybe 300 BC at the oldest. But still, think about that. Greek speaker in the 4th or 3rd century BC, making reference on this inscription on a slab of stone that when it was 18 inches thick or 12 inches thick, Warren cut it down to four inches to lighten the load. It still weighed a ton when he brought it down. So it weighed like three tons when he, you know, somebody dragged this stone weighing 6,000 pounds up the mountain, 9,000 feet and left it inside the temple. A reference to the watchers. Something that happened in

the pre-flood era. Now, where Doug Hamp did, I think, a brilliant thing is that he found the images of the stone that you can find online. A British Museum has some high resolution photos of it. It's not on display by the way. We were over there in 2018 and we asked. You can't see it. It's hidden away. There are some words that were

skipped over by the scholars who have translated it because apparently they couldn't make sense of it. And so Doug found a reference in this stone to a bull, what appears to be a bull. He called it here's his new translation. According to the command

of the great bull god batios those swearing an oath in this place go forth and the significance of batios is that it's a it's a hellenized or Greek form of a sumerian logogram bat which references the god dagan or enlil the significance of course in my book is that i show that dagan and enlil and l are all one in the same and now we've got a connection specifically putting dagan and N-Lill on the summit of Mount Hermon. But the great bull god Batios, I argue, is actually a reference to Bull L. That was one of his main epithets is the Canaanite Father God. It's common. A lot of references in Canaanite literature to Bull L. But credit to Doug in connecting L, Dagon, and N-Lil on the summit of Mount Hermon, because since it was translated in about 1903, there really has not been any new

information. They've tweaked it here and there, but this is the first new information to come out of this inscription on the summit of Mount Hermon in more than 100 years. That's crazy. Derek, so we get, so this is the second coming of Saturn. So we've gotten all the way to the Mount of Olives. You know that Armageddon happens, right? And Apollyon, who your book eustromizes is Saturn returns. I think it's fascinating. You talk about Armageddon, you believe it actually is Jerusalem. It makes a lot of unscripturally not to be this obscure valley but all but instead to be a battle for the holy city talk about when he does return and this battle is looming um and two things i would love he just to kind to kind of just expose on just a little bit is you know why why is it jerusalem one and then two

when this battle happens the reffaim return and fight fight on the enemy side and i just talk me through Jerusalem and then and then this sort of zombie entity possessed army showing up. The old is. It just feels like this is like better than any kind of Hollywood, you know, Brad Pitt, World of Z sort of movie. This is, uh, these are like the heroes, you know, the men of renown, as they say, in the Bible returning to finally try, you know, try their, their best at Yahweh and lose. Well, in the 1930s, the, uh, there was a scholar who published an article in the Harvard Theological Review. His name is Charles Tori, T.O. R-R-R-E-Y, and he showed that this assumption that Armageddon would be fought at Magito was mistaken.

It really comes down to transliterating from Greek or from Hebrew into Greek and then from Greek trying to figure out what the original Hebrew was, and then us English speakers trying to make sense out of that. He pointed out that in Isaiah chapter 14, which is the famous chapter, you know, how art thou fallen, O Lucifer, son of the morning, he wanted to establish his mount of assembly or his throne in the Mount of Assembly in the far reaches of the north, the phrase Mount of Assembly

or Mount of the congregation is Har Moed, Har Moed. And this was believed to be the place where entities, chief entities, held court over their colleagues, the lesser Elohim. The Har Moed of El was Mount Hermon. The Mount of Assembly for Bail was Mount Safon,

which is on the border between Turkey and Syria, on the Mediterranean coast. Yahweh's heart moed is Mount Zion, the temple mount in Jerusalem. And what Tori showed is that when you take this Har Moed, which features a character in the word

moed, called the Aene, which looks like a reversed apostrophe. It's essentially a glottal stop. There's no corresponding sound or letter in Greek or English for the Aene. So when John was writing the battle of the Har Moe

the battle for the Mount of Assembly, he had to figure out, because he was writing in Greek, how do I translate this Hebrew phrase into Greek? Well, the closest Greek equivalent for the glottal stop is the Greek letter gamma. So English speakers coming along, looking at the Greek New Testament, okay, so this is Har Megidon. The gamma must refer to the Hebrew character, Gimel, which is the g-sound that we have in English. So that's how we get Magido, even though there is no mountain at Magito. Magito is on the Jesreal plane. There is a mound there, but that's what they call a tell. It's like 30 levels of civilization that have been destroyed and then leveled and built on again. The Mount of Assembly, the heart, Moed, is at Jerusalem, and that's where the battle will be fought.

And that's consistent with all of the apocalyptic prophecies in the Old Testament, like Zechariah, Joel, Amos, and so forth. So the battle, the final battle of the ages will be fought at Jerusalem. And that then brings to Ezekiel 38 and 39. And we show in the book why we equate the War of Gog and Magog with Armageddon. There's a there's a verse in Ezekiel 39 where God says, they will know I am the Holy One in Israel. The Holy One of Israel is a phrase that you see often in the Old Testament. But the only place you see it in Holy One in Israel is in Ezekiel 39, where God is describing the end of the war of Gog and Magog. And so if God is on the battlefield, that's got to be the final battle. That's got to be Armageddon. And then later in Ezekiel 39, there's a

description of a really gruesome sacrificial feast where the birds of the air and the beasts are invited to partake of the flesh of mighty men and horses and warriors and so forth. This corresponds to a similar feast described in Revelation 19 after the battle of Armageddon. And we're not the first ones to spot this. Bible commentators for hundreds of years have noticed the parallel between the sacrificial feast in Ezekiel 39 and Revelation 19. It's the same feast. Now, I know that there are other prophecy teachers and scholars, Bill Salas, we've had discussions about this. He doesn't think it's the same thing. I do. We'll know in the end. I don't want to disfellowship or unfriend anybody over this, but that's our belief is that Ezekiel 39 is pointing to the same

event as Revelation 19. But what's really interesting is that in Revelation 39, or rather, Ezekiel 3911. I'm going to bring up the verse here, so I'm not trying to bring it up out of memory, where God is describing the end of this battle. He makes reference to entities that are called travelers. And I heard this on Mike Heiser's Naked Bible podcast some years ago, and I nearly ran off the road when he mentioned that here's the verse 39-11. On that day, I will give to Gog a place for burial in Israel, the valley of the travelers, of the sea. It will block the travelers, for their Gog and all his multitude will be buried. And then he mentioned, just in passing, oh, yeah, there's a reference to travelers in the

dictionary of deities and demons in the Bible, meaning that the travelers are not people on holiday on the King's Highway in Jordan. These are spirit beings. These are entities, demons. And so I started digging into that and found that the term traveler is one that is used specifically of the Refayim by the pagan Canaanites around the time of the judges. There are several texts found from the ancient Amarite kingdom of Eugerite, called the Refayne texts where they are summoned to a ritual meal at the threshing floor, the sanctuary, the tabernacle of L, which can only be Mount Hermon, where these warriors of Bail, as they're called, mount their chariots. They travel first one day and then another, and then they arrive at the

Sanctuary of El at dawn of the third day, where the blessing of the name of L will revivify or resurrect the travelers. So resurrected Raphaine. At dawn of the third day. Yeah. Yeah. Which was exactly when Jesus was discovered, or the, rather, the resurrection of Jesus was announced by the angels who saw the women at the empty tomb. So the travelers, the east. of the sea is a reference to the dead sea. This is an area that was known as an area of spiritual

activity. Sharon and I've done quite a bit of digging on this. She's done a study on Psalm 23 that is mind-blowing. We believe this is what was referred to in Psalm 23 is the valley of the shadow of death. God prepares a table in the presence of mine enemies. Why do I say this? That area in the Exodus route, the stations of the Exodus, named in the Book of Exodus, a couple of them right before they reach this particular area, the area right across from Jericho, the plains of Moab below Mount Nebo, make reference to spirits of the dead. One is called Ovooth, which literally means spirits of the dead. Another one called Aih Avarim means ruins of the travelers. Well, that area there, when you're looking down from Mount Nebo towards Jericho, at about the

two o'clock position, there's a little hill that extends into over the valley below, which is mostly farmland today. That hill is the location of a ruined city. Archaeologists today call a tall el-ham, but scholars from Trinity Southwest University have just presented within the last year scientific evidence that that was the city destroyed by an airburst, a meteorite exploding over the northern end of the Dead Sea right around the time of Abraham and Lot, 18th century BC. Wow. So, and at the base of this city, this city that encompassed like 85 acres inside its walls, but for comparison sake, Jericho at the time had about 10 acres inside its walls.

85 acres inside his walls, there were 1,500 dolmens along the base of the city. Now, dolmens are these megalithic funerary monuments that look like tables, two big slams. vertical standing stones and then a tabletop slab across the top. Some of these dolmens that have been found in the Jordan Valley have capstones across the top that weigh up to 50 tons. And there are more of them, more of them, these dolmens in the Jordan River Valley than just about anywhere on Earth, but more of them concentrated at the base of what was probably ancient Sodom than anywhere else in the Jordan Valley. So you get that Moses and the Israelites get there and they spot all of these these funerary minds. at the base of this ruined sitting on the hill. Okay, we'll call this place Aija Avarim, ruins of the travelers.

When Moses is told to climb Mount Nebo to get his only look at the promised land, Mount Nebo, in Deuteronomy it says, climb this mountain of the Avareem, this mountain of the travelers. That area was known as a place where these demonic spirit, and they're called travelers, by the way, because they traveled or crossed over from. the realm of the dead to the land of the living. And, you know, this was known to the Canaanites.

This is known to the Israelites. This veneration of those spirits was a snare, a trap, a lure, because 700 years later, Isaiah, chapter 57, Isaiah chapter 65, was still having to write and condemn Israelites who were practicing these rights, you know, eating forbidden food among the tombs and summoning the spirits of the dead. this is where the final battle between the forces of antichrist and god will take place right there right there you have these rephine travelers yeah these so the army of god the army of the antichrist yeah there will be humans involved but i suspect they will be demonically possessed and those will be the travelers

that ezekiel prophesied wow it's crazy do you think that's i mean i always is fascinated by psalm 23 it's probably the one psalm that I've uttered to myself in my life more than anything, didn't realize that the valley of the shadow of death. What he was actually specifically talking about is, you think that's where maybe Jesus went in the wilderness? Well, it could be. I think he went into the Judean wilderness, which was south of there, but it's believed that that may be the place where he was baptized. And what's interesting, too, is that that's where Moses died. Moses was buried in the plains of Moab, but nobody knows where. But Elijah, The other prophet from the Old Testament who was with Moses on Mount Hermon during the Transfiguration,

Elijah was caught up to heaven right there. He had just crossed over from Jericho. So he was there in that same place. Sounds like there's a portal there. Exactly. It's crazy. Yeah, right? I mean, you have all this traffic. The south end of the Jordan River, which empties into the Dead Sea right there, and the Jordan River, which emerges from Mount Hermon. So, yeah, so if you go hiking out there, make sure you don't go alone, right? You know, walk into something you don't want to walk into.

Make sure you're prayed up. Every location, every place Jesus goes, every area and territory is significant. Why do you think all this knowledge is lost upon humanity? What happens? Why do, I don't know, it just seems like that's what's so hard for modern day people when they go back and they read the Bible like this. They just can't even begin to understand the way ancient people thought about things, the way the locations, the significance, and just the pagan rituals that people participated in. And even the Israelites got seduced to, like you were just talking about, themselves.

And so I just wonder what, where's the disconnect? What changes? How come it always feels like in modern day times you're arguing with people like, hey, this is how ancient people used to see the world. And we all just think it's make-believe and fantasy. Well, we can't discount the influence of these principalities and powers. Paul wrote that that's who our real enemy is. We're not wrestling against human opponents, flesh and blood.

Principalities, powers, cosmic rulers over this present darkness, doctrines of demons. They're whispering in our ears. And there are some people who are actively inviting that interference in their lives. Augustine in the early 5th century, brilliant man, but he was the one who was probably most responsible for shifting the course of Christian theology away from this understanding. that the pagan gods of their neighbors were real but fallen angels and that demons were the spirits of the giants destroyed in the flood. The Jews of the Second Temple period, the early Christian church, they understood this clearly. You can see it in the Septuagint translation where words like Refiom are translated as gigantes giants or in some cases Titans. So they understood the connection between Greek religion and their Hebrew religion.

The early church likewise understood, you know, Zeus, Apollo. Yeah, they're real. They're just fallen angels. get it. But for some reason, Augustine had a problem with this, and he tried to move us away from this understanding. He was the one who popularized an idea that had been really proposed about a century earlier by a guy named Julius Africanus, that the sons of God of Genesis 6 weren't angelic beings. Those were the righteous sons of Seth. And so the giants, the men's, they were, the mighty men who were of old. Those were just evil rulers who were dictators and tormented

their people. Augustine wanted to Christianize a practice that was never really stamped out of the church. This idea of ancestor veneration. We really went into that in our book, Veneration, the monthly ritual performed by the Amorites, the Canaanites, to feed the ancestors. And I put that ancestors in air quotes, because again, they were dealing with demons, not the spirits of their ancestors. But every month, on the 30th, they had to have a ritual meal where they would summon the ancestors by name, feed them. That's what the terrafeme were used for. You know, the household gods that Jacob's wife, Rachel, stole from her father, Laban. That's what those statues were used for. You take a little piece of bread and smear it on the statue. That's how you fed the statue. And then you pour out water on the

floor to give them a drink. They have found graves in Amarite houses because most of the dead were buried beneath the floor of the house, I guess, so they didn't have to travel so far to get to the meal. With libation tubes, you would pour the water into the tube so it would get right to the corpse because if you weren't fed and watered by your descendants after you died, you were condemned to eat dust and clay for all eternity. Now, suddenly, Abraham's anguish at not having an air makes a little more sense. Anyway, this practice continued into the early Christian era, where people continued having ritual meals where they would summon their ancestors. And by the way, the parallel between what was happening on our streets here in the United States of these protests

over the last couple of years, say their name, say their name, and they would pour out drink offerings. It's the same ritual the Amarites were doing 4,000 years ago in Mesopotamia. Anyway, the early Christian church, when built the first churches in Rome after Constantine, legalized the faith, were built in cemeteries so that the Christians could continue having, cemeteries here, grandma's here, great. The church is right here. We can have the ritual. me go to church and then have the picnic on grandma's grave, summon her for the meal.

Seriously. A couple of decades ago, they were doing some archaeological work in St. Peter's Basilica and the sarcophagus next to the one that's believed to hold the body of the Apostle Peter, a Christian sarcophagus has a libation tube in it. That's wild. So, you know, basically in a spirit of,

I guess if you can't beat him, join him, Augustine said, okay, well, look, the spirits of the righteous dead can intercede for us in the land of the living. In other words, he was trying to Christianize the Greek and Roman practice of hero worship, where you would offer sacrifice to Perseus or Theseus or Heracles and then have them do something for you. So that's where the practice of praying to saints came from in the Roman Catholic and Eastern churches, which continues to this day. It began with this whole practice of ancestor veneration, which we traced back to the ancient Amarites

and through the Hurrians back to the Ararat plane almost 7,000 years ago. Nothing's new under the sun, Derek. Nothing new under the sun. So I guess we are still doing it. We just don't realize it. We are. I mean, how many places you go into like a nail shop or if you've got friends who are from an Asian culture or an African culture, you know, Mexico, the Day of the Dead

and the veneration of folk saints like. Santa Morte. It's essentially the same thing. Or voodoo and hoodoo and Haiti. They do all kinds of, you know, they go to the graveyards and do. Exactly.

It's like robots, the same thing. It's interesting, right? Because until you open your eyes to that, it just seems like some weird stuff that, but it literally, you can draw it all the way back, all the way back to,

to Genesis 6 and to Mount Hermon. Mount Hermon, into the, into the watchers coming down and then to them creating, and really at the very essence to them wanting to be worshipped as God, as God, like God. Yeah, and that's where there are. Here we are. The relevance to Saturn comes in because Saturn as Shemiyazza led the rebellion that created these demonic spirits that are still influencing the world today and doing the work

and preparing the way, they think, for the return of the return of the watchers. The mic drop. We wrapped it up with a boat. I mean, yeah. And then the amazing thing, and I love this too, is that he, Saturn will return and he gets to the rain for 150 days. Exactly. And that's it. You spend all of time in Tartarus to come back for a flash in the pan before you get squashed by Yahweh, by God of Israel, which is kind of awesome. It's just awesome. That's it.

And that's where I hope when we write about this stuff, I hope that Sharon and I convey the good news and the hope. hope and all this because it can be tempting to try to feed the adrenaline rush that some folks get when they read end times prophecy and like oh the nephalim are coming back well no the nephalim are here they've always been here they've never left they just they're not in physical form they're demons so the nephaline are they've never gone away the watchers yeah they're coming back but like you say they get five months at the end and anyone who's got the seal of god in their foreheads is protected I don't think the church is going to be here. Sharon and I believe in a pre-tribulation rapture.

But even if not, if you've accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, you've got that seal on your forehead. And these things can't touch you. So that's the good news. That's the good news. You don't have to deal with any of these things. So that's, you know, yeah. And maybe if there's any fear that we engender with the books that we've been writing and the research we've been doing, hopefully it will encourage those who've not yet made a decision.

to accept Jesus Christ to do so. Yeah. It's a real war. The reason he had to go to the cross and sacrifice himself is to save us from these entities who want to kill us in everything that we love. You know, we love it. We love it. You guys bring all the brains and the research to the conversation.

We bring all the silly memes to the comments. You know, you've got the brains and the bronze. There's room for the memes. There's always room for one more meme, right? Yeah. You guys dominate the universe. You guys are the golden age. We're down in the Bronze Age.

Just picking stuff off the ground. We don't know what we're doing. Well, Derek, thanks. Thank you. I mean, thank you for that. Again, tell everybody, the book is the second coming of Saturn. It's your newest book. We already talk about where you can find it.

Tell them where they can find the stuff that you and Sharon are putting out there where they can engage with you. I know you've got some fantastic resources. You guys put a ton of work into content. Tell everybody about that because our listeners out there, like Derek, Derek and Sharon do this all the time. So there's so much more to dive into, you know, on biblical prophecy. I know you guys went through Revelation.

You guys have a Bible study. I'll let you tell you're better than me. Thank you. Talk about where people can find you and some of the things you guys are working on. Well, our weekly Bible study, gilberthouse.org is where you find that. And that really is what is led to the research for the books. We get into the Bible, reading it. verse by verse. I was like, wait a minute, was that always in there? And we've had a lot of those moments

over the past. Gosh, when do we start this? 2014. So almost seven years now that we've been doing this. We just posted episode number 330. We've been all the way through the Bible once. We're going back through it again, finding things this time that we didn't see the last time through. And it's about one hour a week. And you'll find that at gilberthouse.org, which also links to our other websites. Sharon's website for her writing is Sharon K.gilbert.com. I post a lot of stuff at my site, Derek Gilbert.com, which is some Skywatch stuff. I've been posting a lot of excerpts from the book, which Tom Horn graciously has been allowing us to share for free. So if you want to try before you buy, you can find, I think we just posted episode 18, 18 chapter length excerpts from the book already out there.

We'll have probably twice that many by the time we're done, which will be almost, I don't know, three quarters of the book or more. You'll find that at Derek P. Gilbert.com. We also produce a couple of weekly television shows for Skywatch TV, Unraveling Revelation, which is a weekly half. hour study on the book of Revelation, but end times prophecy in general. We started with Genesis because if you don't understand what this war is about, Genesis 3, Genesis 6, Genesis 11, even Genesis 1 in the subduing of Leviathan, then the rest of the Bible doesn't make any sense. So unraveling revelation.tv for that. And at the beginning of, well, actually, it was last fall, We started the Bible's Greatest Mysteries, which allows us to explore stuff like this.

And God bless him, Tom Horn is now putting it out on network television, so people can watch it on the PtL network. Awesome. On Fridays and on Sundays. But we post the episodes at Biblesgreatest Mysteries.TV, Bibles greatest mysteries.tv. And we're just in the middle of a series of four episodes with L.A. Marzuli on that. And following that will be four episodes with Dr. Doug Petrovich, who's got a brand new book called Origins of the Hebrews. And he shows hard physical evidence that's been overlooked by Egyptologists for years, proving that the Israelites, the Hebrews, were in Egypt. He's translated inscriptions that make reference to Joseph, to Joseph's sons, Ephraim and Manasseh, and probably a reference to,

Jacob as well. So, yeah, this is a follow-up to his previous book, The World's Oldest Alphabet, which shows that Proto-Hebrew is the world's oldest alphabetic script, not Phoenician. So, yeah, we're digging into stuff like that and looking forward to possibly a tour of Turkey in the Church's Revelation in the fall and Gobeckley-Tepepe.

Man, that's fantastic. Yeah, we are blessed to do what we do. Becli-Tepa, we talked, yeah, that's fantastic. We talked to Dr. Judd and Judd about get him out there. Yeah, thanks, Derek. Yeah, thanks, Derek. Yeah, yeah, you get old Judd out there. And thanks for putting our, thanks for snapping a photo of our shirt

and promoting us to your fans. Oh, yeah, man, thanks for always being. Honored, honored. Yeah, as always, thanks for your time and coming on and being a part of what we're doing. We totally appreciate the time and the knowledge. Yeah, man, thank you. Thank you.

Happy to do it. Any time. All right, Derek. All right. Thanks, Derek. So Sharon said hello. Absolutely.