Oscars Outsider - $50 on Cameo w/ Dan Glasswick (RHOC S17E10, RHONY S14E05)

Episode Date: August 15, 2023

This week we're joined by Dan Glasswick to discuss Real Housewives of New York S14E05 and Real Housewives of Orange County S17E10 We talk about Shannon Beador's totally normal relationship, the return of Vicki Gunvalson, whether Gina is a mastermind, the rumours surrounding Heather Dubrow's relationship and more on our #RHOC recap Then we discuss the evolution of Brynn, Jessel Taank redefining the villain archetype, Jenna Lyons' closet and what exactly are Sai and Erin bringing to the table? Find Dan's favourite bread on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/panefrescobyfortinos Find Sandy Klowak on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/corporealcurios https://www.bravooutsider.com Music by FASSounds from Pixabay

Hello and welcome to the Bravo Outsider Podcast. I'm your host Craig Midwinter and joining me once again is Sandy Kloak. Sandy, how's it going? Going great, glad to be back. Awesome, we're glad to have you back. Each week we bring on someone who doesn't watch Bravo to get their takes on the episode. Joining us this week is Dan Glasswick. Yeah.

Oh, it's my time. The OC is full of secrets, but I've got nothing to hide. Oh, I'm trying to figure out who that could be. Do you remember which housewife that was? Yeah, I absolutely do. Who was it? Shannon. I'm going to talk a lot about her.

Okay, great. Yeah, I'm excited. We usually start things off just kind of getting your background with reality TV. Have you watched any of these shows before? or any other reality TV shows? No, not really. I watched, I like to watch awkward people date. So love on the spectrum, big for me.

But reality TV, my wife loves it, and this is her space. I'm just trying to make her proud here. Good. So she's a housewives fan, right? Big fan. Yeah. What are her fans? favorite like series?

Since COVID happened, I think she's watched them all. I don't know if she has a favorite, just along for the ride. You know, it's like an ocean. There's waves, ebbs and flows. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, had I known that, I would have tried to have you on while New Jersey was on and like get your pick if you were team Melissa or team Teresa and maybe cause a marital strife because that is something that people are hugely divided on.

And so I would be really curious to see what a couple that is made up of a, you know, a tree stump and a Melissa Stan would look like. Who's the one that had the husband that went to jail for embezzlement? Tresa. Okay. So I was in the Bahamas recently in a bar and her ex-husband lives in the Bahamas. Oh, Juicy Joe? And we sat like almost right next to him. and my wife was like,

Dan, tan, tan, tan, tan, tan. Do you know who this is? And I'm like, I don't care whatsoever. This means nothing to me. You guys get some photos? No, she might have, you know, she might have snapped one that was like behind her shoulder while she was just to inconspicuously do it.

But yeah. Oh, yeah, for sure. You have to. He probably would love that. He probably would have loved it. Oh, totally, yeah. He's got a T-shirt. I've seen him post on Instagram.

where it says like better Joe or whatever because there's there's two joes on there both Teresa was married to juicy Joe and then her brother is Joe Gorga who's married to Melissa and that's where the deep like family divide is so yeah that it would have been amazing to see juicy Joe for sure um in terms of the shows that we watch today we are going to be covering real housewives of New York and real housewives of Orange County did either one of these shows stand out to you more or did you find more compelling? I just thought they were kind of a juxtaposition to one another. Like, O.C. was trashy reality and New York was sophisticated, subtle, I'll kill you, reality. Yeah. It is quite a contrast having these two series on, especially because Orange County

is the oldest one of all the franchises. I mean, it's been like getting the facelifts and kind of keeping up with the times. But real households of New York, this season especially is it's a reboot. And they've done like a complete refresh of the cast and the graphics. And even the tone to an extent is different than what we've seen. So I definitely get what you get where you're coming from in terms of the contrast between these two. Let's let's start with Orange County actually since you had. Shannon's tagline. What were your first impressions of each of these housewives? Who stood out?

Who stood at? It had to be Shannon because that was the topic of the day. And I just, you know, I feel for her. Other than that, I mean, I've seen Taylor before. Oh, okay. She's been on the TV when I've walked by and watch. I mean, I think she's famous for a meme. Is she not with the cat? Yeah, yeah, the meme with the cat. It was kind of a letdown when I understood what housewives were because I thought all the real housewives were just like, fuck you rich.

And I was going through cameo around Christmas time, and you could get a cameo from Taylor for like 50 bucks. It was just like, this is not the fantasy I had. This is... You shouldn't be on this, Taylor. I bet she's charging a bit more now because that would have been before she came back on Orange County. I'm sure it would have been filmed, but she was not back on screens yet. So that probably would have been a good time to buy Taylor.

I mean, we could probably, you know, throw up the difference in price now just to see how much. Yeah, I'm going to see if I can find it now. So everyone get excited for Craig looks up information on the internet. Taylor Armstrong is now charging $90 on cameo. So that would have been a bargain. Yeah. You should have got it. That's like a 100% increase at this point.

Frank, have you gotten or purchased yourself or received a cameo from any of those ways? I have received a cameo from Kim D. It was, my brother got it for me for my birthday. So, yeah, I was excited about that one. There's, not to bring up Big Brother like I always do, but one of my favorite, like, podcasts about Big Brother has a weekly, during the season, they do like a stock market type game with the, that takes into account, like, players' positions, and they all do ratings. And you can buy and sell stocks in the various housecasts on,

Big Brother. It would be really interesting to do something similar to that on real Housewives, but use like their cameo prices as as kind of what the, what gauges the market. It could all go to charity. It would be a great, you know, philanthropic activity for the Housewives. Yeah, for sure. Were those the only Housewives that stood out to you or did you have, Did you have more? I mean, Tamara and Eddie, that was the start of the episode. Sadly, their fitness would cut fitness had to close down. And oddly enough, they opened up an office, but there was no business.

And that kind of stood out to me was just like, it was like if we build it, it will come. It was just kind of like, now he likes thinking and probably. projects. Like if we just build a runway in a farm field, the PJ will come. Let's just, yeah. That was the level of affluence we were dealing with is just like, yeah, if you have an office, businesses just grow up. Didn't Tamara say like that's where he goes to masturbate or something like that? That's like, she doesn't care. As long as she's out. They've been milking a storyline of having no bit. I mean, I think they do technically have. have a business, but clearly Eddie doesn't work for it in any meaningful way because exactly

as you're saying, but they've really been milking a storyline of having pretty much no business for the whole season so far. It's getting a little boring, in my opinion. Yeah, I think their business is like some sort of CBD oil thing or something like that that I've seen them promoting on Instagram. But you're right. It's just like, it doesn't need to be a storyline. And honestly, Tamara, she's bringing enough this season that I don't think she needs. She needs. needs this storyline in order to stay compelling. Like, we could probably do without it. I don't, unless it's going to pay off in some way towards the end of the season.

But yeah, you're right. I could totally take or leave it. It seems like it's more for Eddie to be involved or something. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Let's get into your highlights, Dan. What were your highlights from this episode?

Highlights. I really felt that this episode was a little. little bit, I don't want to say boring, but in terms of like the storyline, it really was just an intervention for Shannon and

her relationship. And it went from one group of friends to the other, which the drama was like, well, these people were talking about your relationship. And then it was like, fuck you, don't talk about my relationship. Oh, can I swear on this? Can I cuss? Yeah, yeah. All right. Fuck you. Don't talk about my relationship.

And then, and then, well, we're talking about your relationship and now these people are talking about your relationship and at the end of the day you know if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck and you know i hate that i did this but i had to google it after to see where the relationship was it spoiler yeah it's not there and really come on i mean i feel like from this one episode was it leading up to this was there a lot of this going on or was this like the straw that broke the camel's back? So surprisingly we hadn't seen very much of this up until about two episodes ago is when this kind of got introduced. Um, but yeah, this I guess with some talk that was happening in the background where, um, Heather, I guess

Shannon had disclosed this to Heather and Heather then spread it amongst everyone and that's where the bulk of this conflict is coming. Well, John called her fat and unattractive. So that feels like a deal breaker. But there was like this idea of like vaults and like different silos of vaults and how everyone had disrespected the vault. But like at the end of the day, it was just like Shannon, come on. This guy's a dickhead.

Get rid of it. They're friends now, I guess. And nothing says I have a normal relationship, like freaking out and storming out of the house, screaming, I have a normal relationship. I am not irrational. I'm not irrational. Don't make me look irrational. But this scene was a definite highlight for me as well. I loved how it all played out.

This kind of mid-season arc about Shannon's relationship was really rewarding for me. It was short and sweet. We might see it play out a bit longer. But I think that we get to see a lot of action in terms of the social like housewise strategy of the game. We got to see Gina really mastermind this situation by bringing it up to Tamara at that devil bitch lunch that they had a couple episodes ago. And it's just kind of been making the rounds. and she knew that Tamara was going to end up bringing this to Shannon. And I feel like Tamara played this really perfectly.

Yeah, without further context about how everyone else was and just, you know, you do me, I'll do you party. All right, they're all doing something. It felt like game night was a bad night was a bad. bachelor's party in terms of just like let's talk about all the fucking and sucking that we do and keg stands let's get it going um you know just a typical games night for some socialites um vicky brought it she brought the keg and she brought the energy i i really appreciate it it's it's so nice seeing vicky and tamra back on the screens i think they never should

should have been put on pause. I've said that multiple times over the past, but I am a firm believer that they are so core to what this current iteration of Real Housewives of Orange County is. I think you could make a case that Orange County needed to be rebooted at the end of last season because it did feel like it was kind of slumping

and just missing something. But I think we are seeing this season that it was missing, Vicky and Tamara and that energy. I think Vicky will be back, Greg? I feel like she, yeah, I feel like she will be back. I mean, if it's, unless it's something that she says no to, I feel like Bravo's going to bring her back. I don't know, what do you think?

I, as I was watching this, my honest thought was like, Shannon's always pumping up Vicky. She's going to be so much fun. We're going to have so much fun. I'm like, Vicky, I don't know. I guess she brings a keg. I was like, Craig, Craig's going to love this. Craig's going to be, he loves Vicky. I'm not against Vicky.

I do love Shannon, as you know, though. And her, whatever a keg stand is supposed to look like, I honestly can't say I know, but whatever Shannon did was art. So I loved that moment. I love Shannon for her physical comedy as no. And she, yeah. So, I mean, they do bring a lot,

the Trace Amigos or whatever, do certainly provide that. Fair enough. Yeah. Yeah, totally. I want to talk a little bit about Heather this episode. Dan, you didn't mention your first impression of Heather, but what were your thoughts about Heather? Who did Heather dress up as?

What describe her outfit? Yeah, this is a confusing episode for a newbie. Jen. Yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah, she dressed up as Jen. So she was in, she had like her, she's typically got like dark brown hair, but she had, like, she had like a blonde wig on or something. Oh, with a trucker hat?

No. So. That was actual, yeah, he dressed up as Taylor. A little red kind of half back. Yeah, yeah, the red thing. Okay, yeah. Yeah. Oh, she's a little instigator.

I did have some thoughts on Heather. They're escaping me right now. I mean, I think she kind of got blamed for a lot of the secret talking, but really at the end of the day, it came out that like Shannon had talked to everyone. So whether Heather was evil or not, I can't really pass judgment on that because it sounds again like everyone was talking about it and maybe, you know, for what John had said, he was kind of a prick. But what I can say is that I was a little bit confused because during the episode, they had a quick cut to Heather's relationship that said, like, Heather shut down the rumors that her boyfriend or husband had cheated. And that that was it. But then long drawn out like Shannon drama where she didn't get benefited in doubt there. It was just like, and I felt so bad for Shaded because it is, is this?

if you could see that once John had seen this episode, it was over. And that's what she kept saying, is just like, this is, you know, definitively the timeline, which I don't know how long it takes to edit and put out. But she may as well just count it down the days and said, yeah, I can love you for three more months or however long that is. Yeah. I love. Yeah, I. Oh, we have a special a guest also. This is Mary. I love the moment where Shannon realized that she actually must have been blackout drunk telling people about her relationship because she does not remember who she told. And it was just a really real moment where she was like, oh my gosh, I don't know what I said to you. I was like, well, that's a little key. A little key here, Shannon, but cool.

Yeah, I thought that that was really amazing as well. Like she could, she was sort of like, like piecing the like the string of yarn on the billboard trying to trace back to where this came from and like it all pointed back back to her but she could not remember like disclosing this and i thought that that was amazing uh i will i want to touch on something that you mentioned dan the the clip that gets thrown up where there's rumors about heather and terry's relationship i thought that this was a really interesting piece to include within this episode because I thought that it provided a really interesting contrast point for how to handle these situations, because this is not dissimilar.

Like, these situations, if anything, the fact that Heather's, like, relationship made it into the tabloids and the press, that's a bigger deal than, you know, just some gossip amongst, like, the friends. So the fact that Heather was able to just like completely brush this off and keep on moving in this situation, I thought that that showed her savvy at the housewives game and how to deal with these situations. And that's something that, you know, Shannon is a fantastic housewife and she brings so much of the show. That is not one of the things that she brings. She's not, she's not delicate. She does not have the like the saddesty.

at the game she is like a bull in a china shop just like being messy and emotional but also like fun and funny and sympathetic but yeah delicate and calculated she isn't so seeing this contrast with how heather plays this situation or her own situation i thought was very interesting i also thought that it all provided a contrast to how she handled this current situation I think Heather handled these rumors about her and Terry way better than she handled the rumors about Shannon and John. Like she took that information and spread it and you could see that she was like so worried about this mess that like all roads led back to her. And when Shannon was confronting her, she was so paranoid. She like snapped and like what are you whispering about over there and really scrambling to take.

back control of the situation that she had lost. It's interesting. I don't know who you would cheer for more because, you know, what do you, what do you want to see? Do you want to see someone who's smart and conniving or do you want to see someone implode on TV and watch them slowly unravel? I mean, what's more interesting? I don't know. Well, I want to see both and that's why I love these shows because you do. You get both and you get them both simultaneously. Like the fact that we're able to see, Heather be both like very smart and like navigating a situation like with such ease but also be simultaneously so messy and and scrambling in another very similar circumstance. I find that I find that

so compelling that we get to see these two sides of like someone's humanity. I wanted to give a shout out to the major character in that show for me was the music editor. because, you know, the difference between that and Y was unreal in terms of the, you know, when someone was plotting, it was very sketchy music. Like that music editor, it must be different from OC and and NY because they really played their part in that. And that, that's certainly up the stakes for me. Yeah, that's a really interesting observation because I think, like, I was when I was watching real house I was of New York I was remarking to my wife Jess I was like the the packaging and the tone and everything seemed so elevated on New York but I think that in that upgrade it does like it does feel a little bit more clinical and I think the the drama and the like kind of like fun that gets injected through the edit on Orange County does add a lot to the experience that is really like it is kind of missing on New York.

I'm loving this season of New York, but it is it is very different. I don't think you're getting the same sort of like character that we see in in this episode of Orange County. And we we've seen that like a memorable instance of that in recent memories on Real Housewives of Miami, where they started the show with like this almost horror movie type edit at the when they're at the shop to get like their potions and and whatever. That sort of character is a lot of fun and I like it when editors have that sort of freedom. So maybe that is an element that I didn't realize I was missing in New York. But it might be that it's what's needed in OC because there's New York has, I'm sure we'll talk

it has a quality to it. It has a, like, a richness to it that OC does not have and is not hold, I don't know, it doesn't hold my interest as much. So they need to have that sort of shlocky sort of element to it to add something, which I appreciate. I think it fits there. Yeah, for sure. And also, yeah, like, we got a very good edit this, this episode of Orange County. Like, I really loved the intro that we got, where it was the intercut flashbacks. first started watching this, I'm like, okay, I feel like this is going to be something that someone that hasn't watched this show will appreciate because it did bring receipts for setting up all the pieces that were coming together when they were showing the flashbacks when they were talking about the party and when Tamara was on the phone with Jen, I think that they did a lot of

really good or great and interesting things with this edit. Dan, did you have any other highlights from this episode? No, no, I think that's it. I was, you know, there was other people that I kind of wish that I saw more from. But, you know, Shannon really took the mainstay for me. I couldn't tell whether I wanted to feel sorry for her or, you know, tell her to move on. Give her a kick and tell her it's going to be okay. but I think one of the things that really makes Shannon attached to John is that she like he is he is nothing special he is like kind of a dud

but he is so much of an upgrade from David Bidor who has such serial killer vibes and is such like a trash person that she is clinging on for dear life to John and I think that that that that might motivate her to be so protective of this relationship. Fair enough. This feels like it was filmed around, was it Thanksgiving? Was it, it felt like fall? I'm not sure. Oh, it was September.

Definitely at Thanksgiving. It was September because it's not even October yet, but there's pumpkins. Yeah, I had pumpkin spice latte vibes in that, it was it Gina had met in like that. Oh, the pumpkin patch, right? And that place was just nuts. Like the whole, like they were growing stuff and it was all like color coordinated throughout

like the whole amazing scenery. Yeah. Did it make you want to be there, Dan? I'm a simple man. Well, I was going to say, I felt like this over this past weekend, I said

like five or ten times, like, you know what, I'm actually ready for fall. I don't know. I just feel like I'm ready for it. And maybe like this entered my subconscious and that's what made me feel that way. Nice. Any normal person is ready for fall. But I am.

Sandy, what were your highlights from Orange County? Well, talk one is the kegstand. I already mentioned that. I guess just, you know, the choice of this dressing up as each other party is. classic OC. It's like total mean girls set up. Like it's literally a party to be mean or you can be and you probably will be. And it's it was kind of fun to see who is going to be the meanest. And Shannon was kind of the meanest because Shannon did the terrible hair extensions, which was when Gina was, her life was falling apart and she just had the worst hair and you know, fine Shannon. But

you're you're the end. You're an underdog. So, you know, maybe have a little compassion, but whatever. And then there is not a lot of focus on Ryan and Jen in this episode a little bit. And it's kind of a whatever storyline. But the flashbacks of Ryan, that's her boyfriend that everyone hates and is calling the town bicycle or whatever, he gives off just the weirdest fake like vibes. When he's answering these questions for people, he's like, absolutely, yes, we'll be married. Like he, I can't even do an impression. He creeped me out big time with these flashbacks, especially. for some reason. So that was one of my takeaways. I was like,

hmm, because I haven't had that. Yeah. I also, I also really love that like Jen's friend like who was like so Midwest. I didn't catch where she was from, but it was like definite like Midwest vibes. She's like, oh, I think he's a total babe and they like showed a picture of him. And he is like, I don't know, he's like what I feel like a middle school girl's idea of what a like a babe in their late. 40s would be like just very very just like I don't know something very off uncanny valley almost yeah um totally but I also like was totally creeped out by Ryan in these flashbacks or in the conversation that Jen had where he was saying something like oh you're just self-sabotaging by

like not wanting to marry me like like she rightfully wants to some time after getting out of this relationship. And so to be like, oh, we need to get married right away. You're just self-sabotaging. And it just felt very manipulative and, yeah, icky. I was interested in the friend Taylor. Of course, they all have the same names. So that's not helpful, but the Midwestern friend.

Because I'm trying to figure what her deal was. And I mean, it's her 15 minutes of fame too. So, you know, she was probably thinking about that. So she was like, aren't you going to get? get married? What's stopping you? Why aren't you jumping in? Unless you think you're going to find something out and really regret everything. And I'm like, like, what is, what is your, like, I don't know. I don't even totally know if I have her peg, but it was an interesting take. And she's definitely the only person who's pressure you going to get married to the guy, unless she knows the big secret. I don't know.

It's so. It wasn't. I'm interested. Yeah, totally. Like, like, definitely, like, feeding lines that they could give her either at it, like either she was on the side of Jen being like, no, your relationship, it's rock solid, but also, you know, depending on how things play out, just giving an out to the editors. Yeah, I think I'm, I think that's it. Go ahead. Do you have more highlights? The only other thing was, it seemed like Shannon was having a dog birthday party at the very

beginning. I don't know. I guess I thought it was worth mentioning. It didn't look like that. party. It was like, Orange County is very dog heavy this year. Like, it basically opened with a shot of Emily drinking out of a dog bowl. It's just that. Yeah, no, they were, like she was hiking with. Oh, yes. No, it was like early. Yeah. She drank. Yeah. But yeah, we also got like her, uh, Emily bathing her dogs. It's been a very like, dog. It's been a very, like, dog.

heavy season. Need more, need more kittens. We got to see Jen with kittens. I haven't been a fan of Jen this season, but I got to see her with some cats. So I'm like, oh, okay. Points for you. I'm a big time cat person. So, you know, she scores some points there with me. I think we covered most of my highlights as well. I did want to come back to Gina, who's someone that we hadn't talked about. And anyone that's been looking at, knows that I have been like just a big fan of Gina this season and I thought that she had another good episode. I thought she handled this situation where Shannon was kind of trying to like turn the table and you know put some of this onto Gina. I thought she handled that really

well being like you know I'm the last person that you need to involve in this because you've been poking around in my relationship just like shutting that down so well. I thought that that was very good in terms of her social game. I also thought at the end of things where after Shannon had stormed out, Emily and Heather, like Heather pulled Emily aside to like kind of confront her about her part in this right away, which I thought was a very good move on Heather's part because I think like this is the type of thing that you want to kind of like shut down and while everyone's head is kind of in the moment, piece together and, you know, see how your relationship is going to go forward, you know,

right there as opposed to dealing with this at a, like, a future point. I also thought that Gina was especially smart to swoop in there and not let them do that one-on-one because it for sure would have been a situation where they were going to be at odds. And maybe I'm like projecting this like social mastermind onto Gina where it isn't there. But I thought it was very smart of her to realize that Tamara and Shannon and Vicky all took off together in the same sprinter van and she goes in there and she immediately like takes control of the tone of that conversation. And it doesn't become confrontational.

It becomes like, we're all on the same team. Let's like kind of sort this out. and vibing. So I thought that that was very smart. How intentional that was, how much of that was Gina's just, like her personality or how much of it was actually like calculating that's up for debate,

I think. But I think that it's just continuing to show her instincts as a hostwife are very, very strong. And I feel like a lot of the criticisms that she is getting online, I find them a little bit baseless. Always love your takes. I can't always. Sometimes I'm just like, whenever these ladies are doing, it's fun enough. I'll take it. Let's get into Real Housewives of New York. Dan, what were your thoughts on these women?

So a lot more fresh because I just watched it. But it's such a change of pace. Like New York just seemed like sophisticated. sophisticated, subtle, whereas OC was way the fuck out there. New York was just like, yeah, we're into fashion. We're pretty, you know, successful. And if you don't like my thing, don't come to my charity. You're a princess. Like, it was, if you're hoping for fireworks, it wasn't necessarily there. But again, because I'm not a big fan of the shows, maybe there are some daggers putting

people's backs that I don't know about. Yeah, that's, uh, that echoes my take. Like, I feel like, um, this is a very like fashion focused cast more so than we see anywhere else. Usually there is like one or two of the housewives that are really focused on fashion and trying to like bring something interesting to the table. Um, but here it's the focus of almost the entire cast. So, um, yeah, I, I find that.

that is really interesting. I don't have the best eye for fashion. So I don't know that I appreciate it as much as maybe a lot of viewers do. But it is really noticeably elevated compared to some of the looks that we see on other franchises. Did any of the like the housewives stand out in terms of like their their personalities and what what they're bringing as being like particularly magnetic or really off-putting off-putting i mean you know the only one that seemed to come out like a bit of a jerk in this episode was jessel um nothing huge again it wasn't that it was very muted toads versus what we'd see in the OC but um yeah she seemed to to to want to stir things up with a smile on her face.

And, you know, she might be one if I was to watch more of these, one I'd want to follow because I think there's definitely a game plan. And I can see her trying to push further with a lot of people. I mean, I don't know the history with Aaron, but she seemed to play that off pretty well. What did Jessel say? She called some people some old cackling hay. and they took offense to that.

Yeah, then she played it off like, oh, that's just British humor. Like she pulled a page directly out of Lisa Vanderpump's book and like, yeah, it's just British humor. You know, you cackling old hag, just had to add old onto it on top. And I wrote this down specifically. She was like, that's how British people talk where, you know, we talk dirty. We have bullocks and bugger and shag and twat. And I'm like, that's, that's the least offensive things I've heard from British people. They use the C word every second sentence.

You know, they'll give me that ball bullocks. Oh, that's a load of bullocks. Hey, you can't say that. Yeah, Jessel was like this. Oh, go ahead. I was going to say, I really prefer this stuff to the OC, the OC who talked about Shannon's relationship. I have to say, like, I, I way prefer getting mad about little petty comments over and over. That's like I just much prefer it and I can follow it way better.

I was getting a little, putting a little mind numbing on OC. So I don't know. It's interesting, Dan, if you feel that it's like muted because I think it's almost just too much for me and I like the subtlety. It revives me a little bit. So anyway. It really might just be the version of or the idea that I've only. seen it once so I want to see everything all at once versus you know the the long play I would say this was New York was like Oceans 11 versus trailer park boys for OSEA you know it was out there immediately

yeah that's that's that's that's that's an interesting point I feel like um yeah we see on Orange County, these pieces of information, they have to be so much bigger in order for them to make a splash in some cases. They're relying on bigger pieces of information, whereas on New York, it's all just like table stakes and they can, they can play a hand with only putting like a few chips in the pot and really like, um, you know, make it into something that can be a source of conflict. I thought that this was a fantastic episode for Jessel. I think that she, well, I am growing to appreciate what Jessel is bringing to the table. I don't know that that is shared across the fan base based on the reactions that I see on the spaces that I engage with this content in on Instagram.

she seems to be getting the, like, the hatred that a villain often does on these shows, which, you know, it's such an essential role. And I think we're seeing her play it in such a unique way. We have seen lots of, we've seen lots of villains throughout the Housewife franchises that they, it's a pretty, like, well-defined archetype. but they're usually like very like savvy and smart and like calculated and like we see like mastermind villains is kind of the archetype. But Jessel is just like clumsy and messy but also like villainous. And it's it's something that we haven't seen before that I find really engaging. She is immediately coming out in lunches as aggressive. I loved how we got that scene of the lunch with Jessel and Aaron,

where it gets set up where Aaron's expecting an apology and Jessel just comes out of the gate, like, swinging and is, like, very, like, aggressive and off-putting with her, like, social conduct. I just have found her so compelling to watch. It's almost an unsustainable performance as a housewife, I feel like, because, you know, she is going to be burning so many bridges, both within the like the the cast and the the fandom that um i don't know how long she can continue this like she's going to probably have to do some reflecting on this season and see how

she wants to go if she wants to try to get a redemption arc or if she wants to you know dig into being the villain but um and if she does dig into being the villain i feel like she's going to have to like change. I think she's going to have to probably lean a bit more into that calculated archetype for it to work for her long term. But it's really fascinating to see watch on this cast of newbies where there's a lot of people that are kind of sorting out how to play the game. And so it's not as easily they don't, no one has a like a tool belt of tools to handle this, this play. So she's just like able to go and clumsily piss people off and it's amazing to see yeah i don't want to seem eight ages here but like i think you can see a huge difference between the oc and new york and i think

you know part of that is that maybe the sun isn't that good for you but also when you get older like you're done You know what I mean? Like you're already crafted. Your mind's made up. You have a stronger opinion. And I feel like these younger ladies in New York are still kind of trying to figure their way out in the world. And the women in the OC, they're done. They know what their opinions are.

And they're just more open to sharing it. If you don't agree with me and I don't agree with you, fuck you. Where it's New York, it's like, I don't know. I can be changed. I'm still trying to figure my way in this. Yeah, that's interesting because one of the conversations that we had, Sandy, when you were on with Billy Chung, we were talking about the physical spaces of these shows.

And I feel like the density of New York City and being so jam-packed into the city and needing to, you know, be adaptive and create your own space, but also make room for others. I think that kind of impacts how you navigate social situations, whereas Orange County, we see they've got the space to operate. They've got the doors to close and they can't hear their neighbors sort of thing, you know, as kind of just like a metaphor for how they can operate socially. They can be a lot more rigid about their opinions because they have the space to do that. I did notice that... Oh, go ahead.

At the start of this episode, there was a disclaimer for suicide. And I, like, I thought it was a franchise. What's the difference between... Are these, like, filmed or released simultaneously? Like, why would there be one for New York versus one for O.C.? Oh, it was because of Bryn's comments at the beginning of the episode where she was talking about a suicide attempt that she had when she was in grade one, which was very like a very moving moment for her and a shocking thing for her to say.

Yeah, that's something that stood out for me right away is that like there was a more human side, at least what they were showing immediately was just like, wow, this is, you know, somebody that I really want to root for versus this person is rich beyond my wildest dreams. I can't relate to them. Yeah, totally. I thought that this I thought that this was a very interesting and moving scene.

I found it interesting because we have seen Bryn the way that she has operated since she has come on the show. And I mean, this is only like episode five, but we've kind of commented about how it almost feels like she's playing up to the camera and a little force almost until we got this this scene where she's talking about her past

and she says like you know i had to learn to be like oh if i could be like cute enough or funny enough then you know i could find more safety in like in in being that way and that really showed um you know this motivates her way of operating in the world up until this point and it's deeply rooted in her personality because it was a survival mechanism. I thought this scene added so much dimension to her character. Just really love to see this, this sort of candidness from her. Yeah, I was cheering for her. She was, you know, the whole chess thing where she knew she was horrible,

but showed a sense of humility and just was like, I just want to play. Like, I just want to have fun. I'm going to do it. And that's someone that I want to be around. It's just someone that's willing to try something and be a person. Yeah, it's so much more of her real self and stuff to listen to that story. And it was lovely to see how, like, strong she really is considering that. And same, watching all these things that can get through an adult.

And that's, like, what everyone should strive for, like, and let alone, like, she's able to be up and herself after what she's come from. And also, like, surprising. I wouldn't have been like, she loves chess, but, you know, there you go. She loves chess. Now I know. That's awesome. Yeah, I thought that this was like, I don't know. Yeah, the chess thing was a really good way for her to bring, you know, to, again, add more dimension to her character just showing, you know, that she is going to try her best, even if she's not succeeding at things.

I thought that that was really nice to see as well in terms of adding, fleshing out this character. So, Dan, what were your highlights from this episode? You know, I really just kind of liked everyone. It was hard to have a highlight because it was compared to the O.C. It was pretty melodramatic. I mean, the highlights. It's pretty boring. You know, I talked to my wife and she was like, yeah, that one was so much better than the O.C.

And I was like, yeah, this is just a bunch of nice people getting along. And that's not what I found at all. That's so cool. I love that. That's not how I did it off. Yeah, Sandy, what were your takeaways? Well, again, I already said, like, I really appreciate and I think everyone is different. Like, you know, Craig, you're very passionate about how people are playing with

this piece of information on the OC, whereas I'm a little bit like, I can't even keep track of who's saying what. And, you know, I love these shows too, but that's just not speaking to me. But on this, I was like, ooh, they are having these coffee dates and they keep bringing up what Jessel said, like all the stuff you said, like these little pieces that they're playing. I find that really fascinating. I found it fun. I, and you don't have to have an opinion on any of it. You can just enjoy it. So that's really all I have to say on that. But I thought it was, I thought I had a good pace to it. I just love New York.

I just love everything. So that's the difference to you. I'll watch anything in New York. It doesn't really matter what's happening. But other stuff I noticed, I did certainly note that through brand of Thanksgiving dinner to help her because of her,

it's a sad time of year. And then absolutely forced her to give a testimony on the most horrific parts of her life, which is good for TV, I guess. But I was a little bit like, she was like oh thanks everyone now I can you know like not think about being sad but no it was about thinking about being everything that's sad so anyways um I want them to stop talking about jessel's sex life it makes me extremely uncomfortable that's just I don't know it's I don't like

I don't know that one bugs me just like leave her alone uh and and um I find it interesting that she is not like pushing back very much on this and that she's embracing it. I actually find it a little bit refreshing that she is doing this because often when people are talking about their personal sex lives on these shows, they are making it seem like they are very active. And like, um, you know, like we see like Larsa on Real House House of Miami said that she had sex four times a night for 20 years while she was married to Scotty Pippen. which is absolutely not true. You know for a fact.

Impossible. That is absolutely impossible to do. So it is kind of refreshing for her to like be open and honest about, you know, the fact that their relationship, you know, is maybe at a low point in terms of how their, in terms of their sex life. but that they are still in a healthy relationship in other respects. I find that that was refreshing to see since it's just a perspective that we don't normally get.

That's totally true. And I definitely don't have a problem. I think that's a really good point. And that's nice to see. And then they just need updates on if she's have sex with their husband every day, I guess. Yeah. If that's best you go. But otherwise, I did like their conversation.

Other stuff, just a little thing, within all that sort of discussion about who said what, et cetera, between Aaron and Jessel, they got to a point of, you don't support other women. This was a lovely call back to Ramona Scree. You don't support other women. And that was like bossy. So I like that. Nice little reference. And I think my last thing. was I was really unimpressed with the name of Jessel's new design consultancy, the know, as in the

know. Yeah. A little on the no. A little too on the nose for me. I didn't think that was super cutting edge. So that's the left here on. It sounded like when you do like a high school communications project or something like that and you're like the project is like come up with an agency and like that's what you would go

before when you're in high school. I mean, I do want to say that, and this is kind of like a microcosm to much bigger industry, but all fashion that came in there, like the high fashion that came to Jenssel's party was bullshit. Like, it's all bullshit. Like, you're not going to wear that out. You know what I mean? Like, you do it for the appearance of others, but like, anytime you see a big runway show and you're like, that's only for a very select group of, people. You're not like, oh, here, I need to wear that taco dress, you know. Sure, the designer makes nice things. So I guess that's where I get confused about what fashion should be and shouldn't because there was some really nice clothing in that party. And then there

was, you know, the dude that walked in that suit that had street names all over it where I was just like, that's a map of Tribeca. It could be high fashion, but you look like dog shit. I actually kind of like seeing this. I don't know. When my wife and I, we watch Project Runway a lot, and I like it when there's like very editorial looks. So to see that kind of come out on a place that isn't the runway,

I like, not that any of these, I didn't find them like super editorial or out there. there but definitely like noticeably more than you would see on the street but that was also the crowd that was there there was like big name fashion editors there so that's exactly who I would expect to be

dressing like that I guess what was her name sigh did she have the giant blazer that was like shoulders out to here uh well Bryn came in a blazer that belonged to unknown man

Some unknown men. But there was somebody else that came out with like a linebackers blazer. It could have been Sye. She is a fashion influencer, so that would make sense. I don't remember what she was wearing. I mean, you know, I'm a blue t-shirt, Haynes kind of guy, so I'm who might talk. But I've never seen anyone wear anything from the runway besides the Met Gala. and be like, oh, yeah, that fits into what we're doing.

It just, it feels like a costume party. Yeah. I, I do love that Bryn came in with this like blazer over that was, you know, very underwhelming, but she still made a moment of it by being very cagey about, you know, who it belonged to. And she, even in the, like, the confessional, she was, like, refusing to give who it belonged to. but it was like this purple blazer and I'm pretty sure it belonged to the Joker. Like if it was anyone else you would say.

She does have that smile. I mean, she has a very... Sandy, any other highlights from this episode? No, I think that's about it. But I didn't really like it. Yeah, I really enjoyed this episode as well. You pointed out the lunch between Jessel and Aaron and I talked about it a bit at the start

and that was definitely like the high moment for me. I just love this tension. I loved how Jessel is just completely creating tension with every person on the cast, everywhere she goes. I find it really compelling to watch. I also love that. And I don't think it's intentional at all, but she was able to manage that tension.

at the end of this episode at her event when Aaron came and supported her. And like she thanked her and it seemed genuine. And, you know, they said they're good for now. I thought that that was nice to see because that kind of brings. We got that like, for me, that rewarding piece where the tension was boiling and boiling and boiling. And then we got a bit of a clash at lunch and then a reset so that we've got a point for it to grow again. I'm looking forward to that not actually being done and them not being good. So I'm glad we were able to lower the stakes back down and reset so that it can grow.

The other thing that I really enjoyed was the scene that we got with Jenna and her friend Heather, where she was going through her closet and, you know, it was almost like, giving a timeline of her career through the outfits that she was sharing. I thought that that was a really interesting way to kind of build her story and just like how grandiose of a character that she is by showing these outfits and being like, oh yeah, I met the Obama's in that one. Or like, you know, just giving, adding all this dimension to her character through her wardrobe. I thought that was really good.

We also got a little bit of a callback to episode one where she gets her friend to sit into in the chair that Bryn and Aaron broke in her closet. I just thought that was a nice touch. But yeah, I agree, Sandy. I thought this was a very, like, good episode. I had a lot of fun watching it. The lunch that we got between Bryn and Cy and Aaron, the little church. Schatz Math. There was just so much that was kind of like building these characters, but also there

was a very like rewarding like story arc through it and and sufficient tension. I thought this was great. Uba was really funny as she always is in this. I loved her line about anything with a job. I don't want it. I thought that was really funny. And great to know that hand jobs are back. No, we don't. Winnipeg's usually like years behind somewhere like New York, but we can make this happen in Winnipeg is. Yeah. 2023, some are bad jobs.

I think that about covers everything that I want to talk about. Any final thoughts from you, Dan? No. I'm blown away that you guys are much more enthralled with New York, but that must come through the fandom of watching these shows. And I wish that I could join that because it would make my relationship with my wife better. But it just drags the soul out of me. I feel like New York is like, there's also something like very exciting about it being like a blank slate and us like getting to know these women.

And there was a lot of reluctance to give this reboot a chance from the fan base. I've always been very excited about it. But I, it's really nice to see that it is paying off. I was talking with my wife, Jess, about this cast. And I was like, you know, I feel like I like, you know, I feel like we've got a very strong cast with the exception of maybe Si and Aaron to a degree, although I think Aaron is bringing it a little bit more than sigh.

But this is like a very strong like cast for a season one from a show. Like usually we'll see a bit more turnover after an initial. franchise launch. Yeah, totally agree. Excited about it. Sandy, any final thoughts from you? No, but I was just, I was just going to ask, Craig, would you say, like, these two episodes? Because I know you are, like, super into the politics on OC.

So did you like, like, did you like them both this week? Like, what is your, how would you rate them? Yeah, I thought that both episodes were pretty good. Like, I don't know. I thought, um, just kind of like rating. on a scale. I thought that this is a pretty decent episode or

a decent season of Orange County. I put the season of Orange County at about a seven and a half. And this episode I would also say is probably about a seven and a half. I was like I was pretty satisfied. Like you said Sandy, I feel like this

party, the whole kind of mean girls element of like the theme. of, you know, dress up as someone else and see who's going to be mean about it. And also we got a costume party, which is something that Bravo loves to do. They love having people fight in costumes. And so we got all of that. So actually, maybe it is like an eight, eight and a half for this episode.

I thought it was really good in that respect. It was missing something. I wouldn't put it at a nine or a ten. I feel like it did need. a little something extra that I can't put my finger on but I thought it was pretty strong and New York like I said I thought that we got a lot of character building which is something that is so important on like a premier season to like build all these characters and I thought that we were starting to see some bonding in these these women come together as a group and it's starting to feel a bit more

and how they were interacting with each other because as we have seen them in the Hamptons and in other social situations towards the beginning of the season, it has felt like a little bit of a mishmash in terms of like why are they all together? Why are they gathering? But maybe it's just now that we're a bit more familiar with them as a cast, it seems a little bit more organic. them coming together and how they're interacting. So I've appreciated that. I feel like Bryn has been in desperate need of rounding out her character from like it. She's been a fantastic, you know, fun presence. The whole like flirty vibe has really been working for her in my opinion. But she is kind of needed to bring a little bit more of the real part.

the real dimension and um i thought that she really did a great job there um so there was a lot there and uh it it was jessel's episode for for me like she made a huge impact for me i really love what she is bringing to this dynamic so um yeah i would i would put this at about an eight i think. Like we didn't see a fantastic blowout, uh, but I feel like we got conflict, enough conflict that really like drove the episode and it had a good pace to it. We got a lot of character building. Um, Sai is still not like really giving me anything. I find her pretty like forced. So, um, I think she's really the low part of this season. Uh, got to a little bit more from Aaron, I thought

this week. Like, just I kind of understand how she's operating now a bit better. It's not strategic, but she's, like, she's very you need, sometimes you need a housewife that is, like, sensitive like she is where she's like, you know,

takes offense to things and, like, she's very soft, I feel like not, like, she has this, like, hard exterior, but she actually, like, internalizes every little thing. and takes offense. And it's not really fun,

but it's necessary for conflict. So I'm appreciating her a bit more, even if I don't necessarily love her so much. Well, I think that about does it for this week. Thank you guys so much for doing this. Dan, do you want to let people know where they can find you or if you've got anything you want to plug? Yeah, been really loving Fortino's sourdough bread.

lately, Pente fresco. You can get sourdough bread anywhere and honestly it's worth the trip out to Ontario. I don't know if there's 14-0s in any other province, but it's the right amount of soft but not moist and sourdough is really hard to capture. A lot of it is really crusty and you put it in a toaster and it's just done. It's not even toast. It's crumbled. But Pente fresco, Fortinos, you can eat it as a sandwich. You could put it in the toaster. It's killing it. This is the kind of bread that you go grocery shopping and you buy like four or five loaves.

And just so you can put enough in the freezer. And that's like a week's worth. You're going to eat all of it. Loaf of bread a day. I kid you not. It's not that bad for you, which is crazy. If you're calorie counting, Panet, French. Sourdoughough bread.

Nice. We will find a link and put it in the bio or show notes for this episode. Be sure to check out Portino's Penny Fresco Sourdough Bread. Sounds fantastic. Sandy, how about yourself? Where can people find you? I can find me on Instagram at Corporial Curios or type in my name and find my weird art. Awesome.

Thank you so much. That's been Bravo O'Sider for this week. I'm Craig Midwinter. You can find us online at bravo outsider.com on Instagram, Threads, X, at Bravo, Outsider. There might be an underscore in there. Just Google it if you can't find it. We're on YouTube, like and subscribe. We'll be posting clips, isolated recap, so be sure to check that out.

Maybe even VR versions of these episodes. You never know. Also, be sure to rate us and subscribe on any podcast platforms. of your choosing that really helps us out. Until next week, keep on wiping.