Oscars Outsider - Are you shaksh*tting me? w/ Melanie Dahling (RHOC S17E08, RHONY S14E03)

Episode Date: August 2, 2023

This week we're joined by the hilarious Melanie Dahling to discuss Real Housewives of New York S14E03 and Real Housewives of Orange County S17E08 We dive into Brynn's and Ubah's different approaches to flirting, whether Jenna Lyons was right to leave, shakshuka, popsicles and more in our #RHONY recap. We also talk about Emily mending bridges with Tamra, the shocking cliff hanger revolving around Shannon, Gina's relationship with Travis and more on our #RHOC recap Find Melanie on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/melaniedahling and check out her comedy album at https://lnk.to/gftbig Find Dylan on substack at https://dylanferguson.substack.com/

Hello and welcome to the Bravo Outsider Podcast. I'm your host, Craig Midwinter. Joining me, as always, is Dylan Ferguson. How's it going, Dylan? Great. Ready for some loco, Buen Trampo with my tres amigosos. Very good. I love how she says trace amigos,

when they're clearly all trace of them, amigas. It's kind of fun. Each week, we bring on an outside. who doesn't follow Bravo to get their perspectives on the episode. And joining us today is the very funny Melanie Dalling. Yeah, I'm that bitch, but I'm also that bitch. I'm having an identity crisis and you get to watch. That's really good.

I really like to change in inflection between that and that. Yeah. Thank you. I am a thespian. Did you draw on any particular inspiration when you were writing this tagline? I just, I kept being like, I think I'm the most like her. No, actually I'm the most like her. And then I would be like, oh, I hate her.

Oh, wait, I do that. And I was just like, I was having a lot of, a lot of moments. And also I think just in life, I tend to be a lot of different people to a lot of different people, including myself. So, yeah, that's where that came from. I also wrote, I wrote a one that I was also going to do was living beyond my means, one adaptogen add-on at a time. Because I got a very expensive smoothie yesterday and I was like, this is not the life I should be living. But I sure do love it. This is the first outsider to have a B-side.

Yeah, I think so. We usually start off just by asking, you know, to give a. little bit of a background in your experience with reality TV? Yeah, I, okay, so I do watch, I think I'm more inclined to watch a reality show that has like a thing that you're trying to accomplish like, oh, I'm trying to find someone to date or I'm trying to become the best drag queen or like I loved back in the day. I was all the like on my PVR when that technology became available was all the like so you think you can dance america's next top model like all those and so i think that's just what i got used to and then when reality tv started doing a thing where it's like it's just a guy

and you look at him i was like what like he's not famous like because i'd watched the osborns we had um when i moved into an apartment with my mom and we like couldn't get our internet or cable hooked up for a while so i we bought the osborns box set and And we were like, we'll just watch this. So I saw that a lot. And I was like, well, I get it because you want to know inside their life because they're famous. It's like fly on the wall. But then, yeah, I never got into like the personality ones.

And then I had a friend who had a baby. So she would just watch like Kardashians and all that all day. And I was like, ooh, I am getting invested when I come to her house. And I would get really heated. Like, I actually think Kim's right. But then I didn't like that side of me. me because I was like, I'm getting so fascinated by these people I could never meet. And it's, it just brought out a side of me that I don't necessarily like to shake hands with. And when it's at

least something like, it's a season, they're trying to date. I talk about it with my girlfriends, which couples we like, which not. I can, I can go into that zone for, because I know it's just in a bubble as opposed to like, oh, and then I'll just keep watching it. It's easier to, compartmentalize. Yes. So did you find that it like, that watching this kind of awakened that same sort of

side of yourself? Yeah. So, okay, interestingly, the Orange County one, I was like, I can't get into this. I can't tell these women apart from each other.

I, like, there were moments that I liked. I was trying to like be as, as positive as possible and see stuff. And there were people I liked and there were moments I liked. But I was like,

oh this is a challenge for me and then right at the end there was a cliffhanger and I was like well now I want to see the next one so like I could see myself becoming I it didn't necessarily awaken that side but I could see the beast starting to come out a bit I was like I bet if I knew more the backstory of a lot of these like little fights and then New York I was like instantly in it I was instantly like defensive of characters that everyone was mad at for reasons. that I didn't think were justified. I was instantly like, oh, she's a queen. I love that outfit. And I was, like, putting together, like, look books in my mind if I were to emulate some of these women. And, like, I saw myself going, like, I think I'm going to watch this. So, yeah, I definitely could watch the New York one was starting to take over my life as I

was watching it. Yeah, that's awesome. And it's a great season to jump into New York because it's, like, a fresh start. It's a hard reboot. All of these are new cast. member so you don't need to worry about getting that whole backstory because the whole fan base is getting to know all of these all of these new champions that are emerging so you can get in kind of at the ground level on this um let's let's start with new york if that was the one that kind of

engaged you the most what were your first impressions of each of these women or who stood out to you okay i love jena so much um She's just like, yeah, okay, good. Because I just like, anything they were criticizing her on was something I feel is totally justified. And I think these women have just been socialized differently than Jenna has. And Jenna's just very much her own person and very like take it or leave it. And I didn't think anything, I didn't think she did anything wrong. I don't think she's ever done anything wrong.

But I just like, I love the way she'd. I love the way she presented herself. I love the way she presented her ideas, the way she communicated. And I wasn't expecting to watch real housewives and hear someone talking about the male gaze or like gender dynamics. So she was just bringing things to the table

that I was like, oh, I could see my friends and I talking about this stuff. So it just kind of grounded the whole show for me to keep checking in with Jenna. Yeah, she provided like very great through line through this whole season so far is we've we've referred to it as the genna lions show and this continued this this trend because she is definitely like the most engaging of the personalities that we are seeing and just bring such a fresh unique perspective that um it's it's awesome

to see and i'm like she's just the standout here i actually think that this is a great cast all and all, but she is just such an all star that like she's an immediate standout. I did like them all. Like I will say like after watching Orange County, it was a bit of a breath of fresh air, just in the sense that with Orange County, it makes sense now that you said they've been on for seasons and seasons because it felt like they were speaking in riddles to me sometimes. But I was like, okay, this is all going back, back, back, whereas this is fresh. So probably I was just instantly like, oh,

New York feels a little more like the women just everything. Yeah, even if I didn't agree, everything they said kind of made sense. I could follow their logic. They were intelligent. I thought Uba was really funny. She was cracking some jokes and I was appreciating. Sometimes that's where I often don't see eye to eye on the type of women I'll see on reality TV. I'll say that where like the sense of humor, I'm just like, oh, they would think I'm a fucking freak.

Like they wouldn't understand a word I'm saying. But Uba had like a real little wit to her that I very much enjoyed. And yeah, I had a moment with each one of them, I'll say, where I was like, okay, yeah, they all, like you said, they're compelling. I liked watching them. Yeah, did anyone like really rub you the wrong way? Yes, I don't. Okay, Jessel, we know Jessel was being a real Rudy Tootie in this episode. So I feel like that's like the go-to.

Like Jessel was being rude, but I don't know enough about her to be like, that's who she is. Because I'm also like, it does suck when everyone gets a gift of lingerie and yours is the ugly one. Like I also didn't think that lingerie was nice. And you're like, oh, thanks. Like, I wouldn't do what she did. But I'm also like, I would feel kind of sad that my free gift of lingerie wasn't very nice. And then I also, um, Bryn to me was very much playing a character for the cameras.

And I don't, I'm not about that. And I know everyone's doing that to a degree. But she was very like muttering to herself in such a way and walking in such a way that I was like, okay, like, can we drop that act for two seconds? That said, I will say that showing up to a party with aath leisure and a floor length fur coat is high camp. I'm all about it. I love that. also showing up in a vehicle chauffeered by this guy who looks like the most classic like Irish thug she's being chauffeurred around like she's fucking Jimmy Hoffa that was such a good entrance

it's a boss it's a boss move for sure yeah I was like I have to give it to her for that yeah I would agree that Bryn is definitely like playing up a character for sure like I think that's unquestionable but yeah I failed to open that wine cellar door once over Okay, the second time, you're pushing it. You're playing a rule. Yeah. But I think she, like, really understands, you know, what the show needs and how to, like, really make a mark. And I think, like, she's definitely trying to, like, shoehorn herself in.

But, you know, she has crafted a character that I think really plays well on this show. And I find it, like, super enjoyable. I think she's really, I think she's funny. Like, I think that, like, she, um, I think she, like, creates great moments. Like, when everyone is doing a workout and she's there just doing commentary and hanging off the arm of the trainer. Um, you know, by the way, I love how she says to him, wow, do you work out? Like, yeah, he's a fitness trainer, Bryn. That's why he's here.

It's, it's, it's, keep up. You know what's so funny about. that is I literally wrote down, I hate when women act like this and I hate that it works. And you're like, I think it's charming. It's funny because you could call me out for the same thing. Like my boyfriend and I will talk about that all the time where like I let cute boys get away with shit. He lets cute girls get away with shit. You know, like it happened. But I was just like, oh my God, like this thing where she's like coming up to him and being like, can I do you? And I'm like, ew, Bryn. Like I was just like so. It's very straightforward.

Yeah. When someone described it as flirting, I was like, is that flirting? Or just straight up sexual harassment? Like, I like a little more subtle. That being said, even when I watch like a RuPaul's drag race, I tend to like the ones that will sometimes get critiqued for not playing it up enough for the camera. Like, I like, just like, I love, I like a real person who, yeah. is drawing on things that are already there instead of crafting a persona.

That said, I appreciate that I'm not the typical viewer. And she's very much doing like what Peresilton was doing back in the day with, I don't think she's, I think she's, you know, that expression like stupid like a fox or whatever it is where women like play up this bimbo thing because they know that it's fun and that people will maybe, it puts people's guard down so that you can get away. way with more shit. So I was like, I appreciate it. I see what you're doing.

I appreciate it. Yeah, I think that that is like, that's a bang on read. I think there's like, I think she also deserves a little bit of credit just in terms of the like the social strategy in the housewives game. I think she has a pretty good read on where to pick her moments in terms of how to use information or use situations for leverage. I think we saw a really great scene with. her at the when they went for lunch in sag harbor and she was bringing up the fact that you know

Aaron has made up very quickly with with Jenna but if she were to do the exact same thing that she would you know be sleeping on the street and she wouldn't get away and I think that's an accurate reach she would not it is a 1,000% double quadruple standard times 10. See and that's so that's so funny because I'm looking at at my notes right now. And I wrote literally, Bryn, what the fuck? This is not a double standard.

Because I feel that, but okay, this is also full disclosure. Like I've already said, I'm in love with Jenna. I love everything Jenna does. So I thought it made sense. The only thing I can fault Jenna for is that she shouldn't have tried

to make this sweepover work when she knew she had this 6 a.m. thing. She should have just known herself and been like, guys, I'm not going to stay over. you're all going to be like screaming and drinking. She knows these girls. So I was like, why would you think you could get some shot eye? That being said, I think it's a little different to be like, oh my gosh, I live 10 minutes away. I'm so sorry, but I do need to get some sleep. I'm going to take off.

I didn't mind that. I didn't think it was the big deal. Everyone was making it out to be. I think that's something I would do. I think something any of my friends would do. But being like, I can't be seen in that restaurant because it's not this year. And then Aaron does say, you didn't speak to me for weeks and Jenna made up with me within hours and I was like fair fair like I just um I didn't think it was the double standard she was making it out to be but I don't know these women that well so maybe there's been other examples of that no I mean I think you're in entirely right but I also feel like um it doesn't need to have like an actual like moral or like true like social base in order for it to be used for like social manipulation like she can still keep yeah for gamesmanship

which is a huge part that you'll see if you end up like watching a whole season like there is like a bit of a game to it and even if you know even if you are being a bit of a hypocrite with something but you're using your information in a way that can manipulate the social situation in your favor um i i think that it's a a smart, you know, that's kind of playing the game smart because you can bring people back onto your side or sort of like temper their approach when they're coming at you for whatever situation. But I think like your read on it like morally and socially is is bang on. Okay. I sorry to interrupt, but that's exciting to me. I didn't realize there's like a strategy aspect to this show.

And that illuminates a part of me that I have no mind for strategy at all. Like I don't play like board game. Like when I'm playing like Scrabble, people will be like, oh, if I get this word, like it'll end up on this tile. And like, I'm just excited to like spell words. So like I'm just like, oh my God, I have all the letters to spell this word. Yay. And like that's the whole game to me is just like getting a random assortment of tiles and spelling a word. But then I'll play with people that are like combining three different words to make like to get so many points. And I'm like I never would have. I'm never thinking that far ahead. I'm never like this also speaks to like my comedy career.

I'm very just like whatever comes my ways. What I'm going to do? So it makes sense that I wouldn't see the strategy because I'm always just taking things that. face value what makes the most logical sense. And it's harder for me to see things from that lens. So that is putting a lot of things in perspective for me now that you say that. Yeah. I think we like also just as viewers, we have the, you know, we've got the privilege of like retrospective and being able to see things like very removed from the situation. So, you know, that definitely, like, colors the perspectives that we have as, you know, commentators on this situation.

And, you know, you can, like, I use strategy. There might be, like, a better word for it. Since there isn't, like, an ultimate end goal, you can't really win housewives. You can just survive housewives. So. It's like life. Yeah. But that does make sense.

And, and I have, you know, I act like I'm so innocent to strategy, but I understand social dynamics and knowing people well enough to play a chip a certain way. Like, you know, I, I've been in situations where I've had to, where I've had to suss things out. And, and yeah, I do, I understand what you're saying. And I'm like, okay, so there's, there's a game, there's a bit of a social game going on here. Yeah, totally. Um, let's get into the highlights for New York. What, uh, what really stood out to you. Okay. Yeah. I have some things in bold here. Oh, um, I really liked in the morning just, I thought it was really cute when Cy said, I like to wake up to gratitude. I just like, I thought that was a really, it was size like, you bitch is complained a lot. Your energy's off. Like, what are you doing?

doing right now, Cy? What is that? Yeah. And that's, oh my God, that's such a funny observation because when I was younger, I remember getting into like laws of attraction, positive thinking, blah, blah. And I was in an acting class and I would walk into the class and be like, you guys are so negative because like I was like, because I was in my 20s and didn't understand what it actually means to do positive thinking. But I thought it was really sweet when she's, I just like, It's always going to be little things like that. I like to wake up to gratitude. And then later she's like, does nobody notice that we're staying in a for free house?

And like later when she mentions that she grew up poor, that put it all in perspective. And she says free 99, which is a cute expression. I just, I liked that whole thing. And I just like, it was a cute. I sometimes struggle with reality shows because people speak in sound bites. So I like to find them when they're being a little just clumsier, silly, or dittsier. I like to wake up to gratitude as just like a cute little thing to say. Totally.

Oh, but then on the flip side, there was a soundbite that I very much enjoyed when Jenna was like, you're all adults. You could have done whatever you wanted with your breakfast. And then it cuts to the confessional and she says, are you shex shitting me? over the Shakshuka, which popularized by Love is Blind, a show that I do watch a lot and makes me feel sick inside, but I can't stop watching because my friends send me voice notes about it, and then I have to watch.

Are You Shakshitting me was such a good line. And just being like, what, I told you I didn't want to eat? By the way, I looked up Shakshuka a very, like, garlic-heavy meal to have right before you work out. She's in the right, but she's like, you could have eaten your garlic and eggs before doing a hard workout. I'm not stopping you.

I've never heard people say Shaksuka so many times. Oh my God. In like 45 minutes of video. Actually, I don't think I've ever heard anybody say Shakshuka out loud, but it's still a lot of times. Did you watch the season of Love is Blind where it came up? No. No, I haven't seen that.

Interesting, because this one guy, matched with this woman because in the pods he was like he's like this southern like cowboy guy and he's like, eh, I like to cook. I like to make Shakshuka. And she's like, what? Are you kidding? I love Shakshuka. And like that's what started their, their relationship really and their whole connection was that he A, knew what Shakshuka was and B knew how to make it. So then you heard the word Shakshuka like so many times the point where like that whole week, I was. walking down. I live in Queen West and I was walking down and I was seeing all the little like sandwich boards were like, we have Shaqshuka. Like it just like started. Started a craze. I've still yet to try it. But yeah. I love the idea of Real House Eyes of New York having like a counterpoint in love is blind where Shaqshu Kshuka brings people together in one show and tears them apart in another. It's really beautiful, beautiful symmetry that we see here in reality TV.

That is beautiful symmetry. And do you think Erin watched Love is Blind and wanted to make Shaksuka because she watched it? Do you think that's how she heard about the dish? Do you think she'd be the type to watch that show? That's a good question. I feel like she would probably have watched it or have been aware of it in some capacity. Yeah, I don't know. Aaron's an interesting one because I still feel like I don't really know her.

We're three episodes in. I feel like I've got a good sense of the cast, but Aaron is one that is still kind of like eluding me in terms of, you know, who she is. The only thing I know about her is that she's a bad host. Is that how you feel as well? Yeah, I don't know anything about Aaron either, but I don't think that she's made a great impression so far.

I think it's been like a little, a little negative, a little defensive and still waiting to have like the moment where she like reveals a little bit about like her fears and ambitions and stuff to give her some more depth as a person. Yeah, you know, come to think of it, I didn't get much of an impression of Aaron either. I guess like it was easy enough to think, oh, I'm getting an idea of this woman because she was hosting and she was like kind of in charge. But when I actually try and look back to who is she and what she all about, yeah, I don't, I don't know.

She's got a nice house. The hate doesn't work. And she has a nice house. I had another, I had one more. Oh, I had, well, I did a lot of highlights. Okay, which one will I pick? Oh, okay, I really liked, because I like seeing these things, when Bryn, so I talked about how I don't love her style of flirting. So there is a tiny moment I liked where she turns to the chef and she's like, why don't you just stick it in there?

Like he's like putting something on her plate. And he just ignores her and keeps walking. And then under her breath, and then under her breath she goes, oh, there's other people here. Like she kind of like justifies it to herself. And I felt and I really liked seeing a moment for her of being like kind of clumsy socially because we didn't see a lot of that. So that kind of like muttering under the breath like feeling a little bit heard

and a little rejected was was fun. It was just like a silly tiny moment. But I liked it. Yeah. I thought that this like this whole dinner scene was a lot of fun and like I was laughing at Bryn. I was laughing at Jessel. I was laughing at Uber.

Like everyone, I think, really had a great moment. Yeah. I love lied about, I feel like I'm watching a French movie. I'm not sure I understand what she's saying, but I love it. I love it. I thought it was great. Oh, my God. Yeah, I loved all the little, like, commentary of like, what?

And then when they started playing two truths and a lie and one thing I did want to point out, I don't know if this is a highlight, but just something I wanted to point out, it's really hard for me when women who pride themselves on having a lot of sex but have no sense of their anatomy or their genital health because putting a popsicle up your vagina, you knew we had to talk about this. Like sugar in the vagina upsets the pH balance and you will get a yeast infection and I just feel like that wasn't pointed out at any point. They did say, oh, we're looking it up and doctors urge women not to, but I was just like, I understand this was in her younger years. You know, we've all done inadvisable things with our bodies. But I was just like, I would have

loved for there to be a little pop up on the screen like, please don't do this because I felt- General Warning. Yeah, just anything. Because I feel like they were all like, oh, I'm so adventurous sexually, but I was like, that's fine. But if you're going to be like that, you should be aware of sexual health. Like, I think those are part and parcel. And it was, it was a little concerning to me that these women are adults who nobody mentioned,

I do think Jenna, my girl, said, I don't think that's healthy, but she didn't say why. And I'm here to say why. It's because you'll get a yeast infection. Also,

I just want to say, there are two truths that a lie were fucking easy across the board. It was all like, I slept with a bassist. I blew the secretary of stage in the West Wing. Like, okay, come on. We know which one it is. Come on. And they were all sexual, which I was like, I understand.

It's girls night. I find true and a lie so much more interesting when you say something like truly twisted and shocking about yourself that leads to like an amazing story as opposed to just like, I've had sex in an elevator. Like, I'm like, okay. Like, I already believe that about you. Like, I don't know. I just, I want to really get to know you with two truss and all. I want you to like, let's get into childhood trauma.

Like, maybe that's just like my friends, but that's what I would have enjoyed a little more. Jenna was the only one who's like, I'm going to bring up embarrassing stuff about myself and not just be like humble bragging about people I fucked. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And this was a complete missed opportunity to give some backstory. Like you say, Melanie, like it could have been a real opportunity to introduce yourself as a person on this show and really missed the mark.

And I took like especially took offense to Aaron's two truths in a lie where she was like her, her truth or whatever truth was that she had sex in a senator's office. And then she's like, I don't want to talk about it at all. I'm not telling you this story. It's like, why would you bring that up? Like, why not choose something else then? It was like, make yourself mysterious. I've always, she never said federal senator, so I choose to believe it's a state senator,

which is much less impressive. I've always thought, yeah, that the point of those games is that at some point it turns into a conversation and you kind of forget that you were playing the game. Like, they were playing it very like, my turn. Okay, my turn. No, I'm not going to tell you that story. And I was like, what?

Like you said, like the whole point is to ask questions and get a story out of someone. I thought, I don't know. Yeah. And also, oftentimes on these shows, when we see like these social dinner party games being played, it's used as an opportunity to, like, instigate a fight and, like, stir up drama. And I was a little disappointed that no one, like, no one's, one of someone's truth wasn't, Aaron is a great host. Because she was a terrible host this weekend.

And I feel like, you know, Jessel or Cy even could have, you know, brought this up or Bryn, you know, just try to like stir something up here. But it was, it was a little bit of a waste. But it still was like fun to see them kind of playing around and at least getting a bit more comfortable with each other. Yeah. Yeah, it was fun. But yeah, I think that, I never even thought of that. that would have been a great opportunity to throw some shade.

Totally. Did you have any other highlights? I mean, I loved when they couldn't turn on the fireplace. And Bryn said we're so fucking stupid. That made me laugh. By the way, Si was right. Just throw a match on it. The gas is there.

Throw a match on it. Is that true? I thought that sounded dangerous to me. You got the gas ignited. I mean, how much gas could have. escaped so far. It's outdoors. You're not inside. Sy also had a really great quote there that I wrote down. When you grew up poor, I just throw the match in the oven on it comes on. And I wrote, what? Because I guess I didn't grow up with a gas oven, but I was just like, oh, like she was just like,

you know. So I just, I found that funny. Was there, and is there anything else worth bringing up? Oh, okay, the only other highlight I want to bring up is an outfit that they only very briefly showed that Jenna was wearing that I loved in the confessionals. She was wearing a menswear shirt with a tie and a pearl necklace. And I thought that was so smart. And they only showed it one time. And they talk about her like she's not a fashionista. But I was like every single thing she wears is immaculate to me. And I don't know if that's like they like she mentioned very much dressed for the male gays.

and the way she dresses is maybe not so much for that. But I was just like, what a chic ensemble? So I just wanted to shout out that outfit because I loved it. Yeah. To be clear, she is also a famous fashion designer. Yeah. I did find that after. And I was like, that makes sense.

And I did recognize her from girls. Right. Yes. Yeah, I forgot that she was on that. I was like, oh, she looks familiar. And then I realized. I was like, okay, yeah, this broad is famous. But you brought up something about, you know, how Jenna made a comment about, you know,

dressing for the male gaze. And this was something that I picked up as really interesting because it is like a unique perspective that we haven't really had vocalized on on housewives. Like there, you know, there have been gay housewives on the show before. But not in my memory have I heard someone sort of express how it impacts. you know, how they present themselves and had, you know, this transparent of a dialogue. So I was curious what your thoughts on that were. I really, I liked it as a thought experiment because I think it's something that, I mean,

I, in the corner of the comedy scene that I inhabit is very much the femme, queer, like, space. So I feel like these are the conversations I'm having all the time. and when I saw that represented on housewives on a show that I feel like some of some of the fandom may not be having these conversations with their friends. I was just like, that's really interesting. I love that we're opening up this perspective. And I found it interesting, especially in contrast to a lot of the housewives were saying, oh, she's so uptight. Oh, she never shows herself off.

Like there was really this like sentiment that she needed to change something about herself. And I thought it was really cool that she was just like, no, I just stopped caring about the male gaze. And that's what they're picking up on. And I think that's an interesting thing for people who are socialized female to think about when you're criticizing a woman for what they are or are not doing. Is that coming from your heart or is that coming from a social convention? And there's no right answer. It's just like it's worth examining. And I thought it was really fascinating to examine it on this show that is very much about

women who have wealthy husbands. So I was like, oh, that's interesting to me. So I, yeah, I really liked it. Yeah, I thought it was a great moment too, because we often see on these shows, the women all being like, oh, you know, you look so hot. You look so hot. And it's great because they're like, you know, very supportive of each other. They're very reinforcing of each other.

that's one of the positive things of the show. But in this moment you see a moment where they're like, oh, we want you to look hot, Jeddah, you look hot. And she's like, well, you know what? That's not my thing right now, actually. Like, that's what I used to do. And that's not what I'm going for now. And to just, like, kind of like, flip the script a little bit and be like,

okay, it's awesome to like support each other. But what if we're, like, reinforcing a more narrow idea of what, you know, we should look like or be like that that isn't what I want right now. And I thought that was a great moment for that. Yeah. And that's such a good point because I remember like I have this memory of being at a girl's night with some friends where they were all talking about. And this is very much a narrative in girl world right now about,

oh, we hate bras. Don't you hate bras? And I was like, I actually like my bra. I have big heavy boobs. And I like having some support. And it just feels good to me to wear a bra. And they were all like, what, what? And they were like, they were like, let's just not wear bras tonight.

Like I'm being supportive of each other. But then when it came to my choice that I didn't want to take off my bra, they were trying to get me to take off my bra. And I was like, aren't we? Isn't this supposed to be about like choice? And it's interesting that the support goes away when I'm not following the norm. Yeah, literally. Yeah.

So that is, it's interesting that I can kind of relate to that feeling of like, oh, we're all so supportive when we're the same. But where does that sisterhood go where I'm bucking a trend or I'm just not the same as you in this regard? Right. Yeah, totally. And even if you're like coming from a place where you're, you know, what you're doing is trying to empower someone, not realizing that, you know, what you're actually doing is, you know, reinforcing a, um, reinforcing a view or a pressure or, you know, some sort of harmful negative, um, social, uh, uh, convention that you can still be doing harm even when you're not in intending to do, do so. So, um, yeah, I, I just thought this was a, a great moment as well. I loved it. And actually,

just really quickly, the dress she was wearing, I thought was still very in line with her aesthetic. I thought it was interesting that they were all like, you should do this more, you should do this more. And I was like, just because she's often wearing quote unquote menswear, this dress still is very high fashion New York to me. This look is still very like the long sleeves with like the bracelets over the sleeves. Like it was still very her. And I thought it was interesting that just because it was a dress, they were like, oh my God, so different. And I was like, is it? Like it still feels like, yeah.

So that was just something that I was rolling around in my head a little bit. Yeah, totally. Did you have any other highlights from New York? No, I think we went over a lot. Did either of you have anything? Yeah, I mean, you already said it, Melanie, but critical support to Jenna ghosting everybody. That's great.

You should do that. I do that all the time. It's just like, I totally understand that way more than I understand everybody being mad at her for it. Ghosting for a party is cool. you know, a little factoid that I really like about ghosting from a party is that you ever heard the expression French exit, which is another term for when you leave a place without telling anybody.

French people call that filet al-English, like an English exit. Oh. That's so funny. But for me, like if your choices are like confront everybody about the noise they're making while they're all drug and having a good time, announce to everybody that you're leaving, both sound horrible or just crack the door a tiny bit and slink out and hope nobody even

hears your footsteps I'm taking option see every time that sounds like a no-brainer to me like so absolutely absolutely support that choice I think I do think Bryn was being a was being a baby about the double standard stuff I get Craig that she is doing a strategy thing I thought it came off as being whiny and like just like trying to play her head too hard. And and Bryn's like flirty thing. I mean, you've already kind of touched on it melody. But it's like it's so like just straight down the middle. So straightforward.

It's it's it's almost irritating. It's a little it's just like too unsubtle which is like, okay guys, you know, like really neat flirting hack you might not have heard before. Just like be hot. and show naked pictures of yourself. Oh my God. They hack their mind. Like, wow, bad.

That does remind me of a part that I love that Uba made me laugh when she said, maybe that's why there's three engagements. And she was like, because she was just like, you shouldn't be having to play these like tricks on, and like the she said literally like the type of man you're going to attract with that trick is like, is that worth it? like unless you're just looking for a bit of naughty fun.

It's like, so you're going to date the guy who was attracted to you because you were looking at naked photos of yourself next to him at a party. Like, I mean, Uba's advice is pretty straightforward too. But that's a little bit more psychology behind the whole thing. Like just, you know, just ask for help. Ask for assistance. There was, I think it was Ben Franklin or something. One of those early American writers said something like, you know, if you want somebody to like you,

don't do a favor for them. Ask them to do a favor for you. And I feel like that's that's a little more like like psychologically complex because that's the thing that works. Like I mean, they're both hitting on the same idea that like, um, not to sound too much like a like a 90 standup guy or something. But it's like not that hard, I think to like like get a straight dude to be interested and being like, but the idea of just being like, you know, I need your assistance with something is like that's going to be like a winner almost every time. right? Like that'll work for me. I have a puppy dog brain. If somebody comes to me and is like, like, can you help me with something? I'm like, oh my God, I can do something for you. Are we going to get married? Like amazing. That's awesome. Yeah. People love to feel like the expert, right? And like as long as

you're not dumbing yourself down and making yourself helpless, like in mean girls where she like pretends to be bad at math and she's actually good at math. But if you can find something like she said at an airport, you're like, oh my God, do you know where this gate is? Like that doesn't make you look stupid. it just opens a conversation and invites them to help you out. It does play a little on the gender like damsel in distress thing. But I also think she was being tongue in cheek when she said that. I don't think she even necessarily does that every time she was just like, well, this is what I do. But I think she just goes up to someone and says, hi, she seems confident enough to do that.

Oh yeah. She probably goes up to somebody and says the weirdest thing they've ever heard in their life. And that'll work too. Yeah. There's a psychological term for it, I'd say, flipping the script where you do something so unexpected that like all bets are off and you have all the control. Hmm. Game theory stuff. Yeah.

But my favorite moment actually was when Cy talks about like growing up poor because I haven't found Cy like interesting so far because mostly what we've seen of her is like her like making jokes that are like pretty kind of obvious lame jokes. But some of the things that we've seen from before, like, oh, I'm packing for to be away for two days and I have to bring a million outfits because I have to wear a different outfit every five minutes, which is like just kind of like an obvious gag. It seems to be a little more significant when she talks about growing up in a poor household and like, you know, being poor until adulthood and talks about what that means to her psychologically and why that like affects things like her dislike of dollar stores where somebody who grew up upper middle class will think that it all. store is cute. That way I thought was really interesting to me and the fact that we have a bit of a bond happening between Bryn and Cy over that was a moment that was really promising to me because these are these are both characters that haven't like given me much yet in terms of you know actual reasons to be to be to be interested in who they are as people so far it's still early in the show so it's normal that we haven't seen much from too many people but having them bond over the fact that

they both had poor childhoods and that there are like psychological differences as a result of that was really interesting and promising and nice and kind of sweet. And it's promising also to have like the to have a conversation about class starting in the show that I hope will continue a little further on because that's always going to be a part of these shows in New York especially, but New York it's especially more focused on a class in term signified as cultural capital rather than like just financial capital but this kind of like classic old school definition of class in the terms of like what material conditions you were raised in and how that affects what's important to you as an adult that's something that's very interesting to me and i hope

that that we see more of that going forward and we get to see more lines drawn along that um along those axes um so i really appreciated that discussion uh having it um where there little plastic sippy cups around the fire was like just like aesthetically a good a good geography for them to be in and and and that was the that was the best scene for me that was my favorite part I liked that part too I you know at first because sometimes when people wealthy people say they grew up poor I don't know what they mean by that like I'm like how like so at first I had my guard up because I was like well I'm still shopping at the dollar store you know So I was a little like, but then as she got into it and was really describing her day to day and how scrappy she had to be like, I actually started Googling her.

Like, I was like, how'd she get her money? Like, how did she turn it around? Like, it did make me more invested in her character. And I thought the way she told the story was like, as she was talking, she was making it funny and entertaining. She wasn't like, whoa, was me. But she was all like, hey, guys, it's not the cute. Like, you're acting like it's so cute of you to be like, I'm rich, but the dollar. are so fun and she was kind of like, can you just remember that like some people have to shop

there? And yeah, I did, I appreciated that moment as well. Yeah, I, I, Cy was a bit of a standout for me this episode as well because, yeah, like you said, Dylan, I don't think we've seen very much that has really given us a foothold on who she is and, you know, what she's going to be bringing to the table. And yeah, she was like very open about her past. And I thought that that, was was really refreshing and i thought that we um yeah just got a bit more of a fuller picture of who she is yeah um Dylan did you have any other highlights from new york uh no that's about it i basically agree with uh with everything uh melody said about uh about gen two well i already said that and it's uh still the jena show for me like it's still uh it's still her show and uh somebody

else is going to have to step up to try to like, challenge the idea that it's just like a one woman show basically. Yeah, I just, I wrote that Jenna's who I think I am deeply on the inside, but I'm often letting my people pleasing stop me from being my most Jenna self. And I was like, I'm going to, I'm going to let it out. Like she really,

I want to watch it more just to like feel empowered by her character. Yeah, totally. And Jenna is, someone that I think right before we did a live stream the night of the premiere of this and we were kind of speculating on on the housewives and what they were going to bring to the table. And since Jenna was the most like well known person on this cast, kind of had the most to go on with her. And just based on what I've seen on Instagram and and Reddit, I was like, oh, I feel like Jenna's going to be this, this villain because there's all these stories about, you know, people that have had run-ins with her. where she has not been warm and she, you know, hasn't really engaged very well in people that, you know, have worked at Jay Crewe and like have tried to make small talk with her and it just not like being friendly. And I was like, okay, so maybe we're going to get this like this hardcore villain coming in that is like, you know, really off, you know, is really going to be aggressive.

And we've gotten the complete opposite, but everything that you've read kind of tracks now that we, have this like fuller picture of who she is and it is very endearing and like um very um i identify a lot with sort of the the the awkward and the anxiety of of it all i just have been really pleasantly surprised with her so i a hundred percent agree with you guys that uh jena is really the star there is one person that we haven't really got around to talking about yet and um That's Jessel. I think she was been, she's given us two really strong episodes back to back. I mean, she has not come across likable and she hasn't seemed like she's trying to come

across likable and I really like that. I love a villain who are someone that is going to go for a villain or someone that is going to be rough around the edges and really agitated. things socially. It's such a necessary part of the show. And the fact that she's doing this and she's like, she's not delicate about it. She's very clumsy. She reminds me a lot of Shannon from Real Housewives of Orange County

except Shannon is likeable and trying to please people in clumsy. Whereas Jessel's the opposite. She's just like clumsily offending people and being very negative. And I just, I really love it. I also think that, she's funny or she's she's trying to be funny and she's just like it's not landing it's landing in such a way that people are just like very put off by her and it's it's so fun for for me to watch i really appreciate that yeah i like that perspective the clumsiness i do think now that you mention it her sense of humor is a little outdated like i think years ago it would have been funny to walk out like I look like a fucking Christmas tree

and this and now I think we've pivoted and we're like finding other ways to be funny than like just to like shoot something down aggressively. But I think I said the previous episode she was right. She got the worst one.

Yeah. It wasn't a good fit for her. She was right to say it. And I'm glad I saw you I saw you nodding when I said that earlier and I was like okay good because I was like oh well it is ugly and like I I wouldn't say anything, but I would be quietly heartbroken that this fashionista brought everyone little outfits and that mine was ill-fitting and kind of old-fashioned.

Like, it looked a little, it looked a little off the rack for me. And that's, you know, as I know from Rupal's drag race, off the rack is is a real insult in the fashion world. So, yeah, I just didn't love it. But I did, yeah, I didn't get much from. Jessel in this, I was just like, yeah, she sucks. Like, I was like, she's mean. But, uh, like, I, I like a villain, but I wasn't getting, I wasn't tasting villain the way that I, I, I would have liked her to maybe stir up a little more drama.

I'm not sure what I wanted from her. I was just like, oh, she's just rude. But I do like, now that you mention the clumsiness, I, that is kind of endearing to just be like a clumsy villain. Yeah, it's something that we don't really see. see a lot in reality TV in general. Like usually if you've got a villain, you kind of picture them as a mastermind. And we're not really getting that from Jessel.

I, I love that it's this kind of like unapologetic honesty and like just trying to be funny, but just like not hitting that is really landing her in these situations where, you know, she's the bad guy. I especially loved the Sag Harbor lunch where she was giving her apology to Jenna, which was a total non-apologia. I love

her being like, I see you, I hear you, you're heard, I really appreciate the thought and I would gladly take it and exchange it for something else. That's good stuff. I like that. Yeah.

No, it was funny how she just and I will say I see myself in that, that like I can apologize. I can meet you halfway. I can see your perspective, but I cannot lie. So it's like I would have to still assert that I did not like it. And it's just like this part of my brain where there's like,

I was talking about this with a friend the other day where there's like an alarm that goes off. And you're like, I can't not say the thing and you have to say it. And you're like, why can't I just swallow this? But yeah, I could see myself in that a little bit. Let's talk about real housewives of Orange County. Melanie, what were your thoughts about Orange County? Was there anyone that sit out to you here? All right.

This one was hard for me because although they all look different in the face, they all have the same aesthetic sort of. When I saw a brunette, I was like, oh, thank God there's a brunette. Like, I just like. It was wanting to tell apart. Yeah, because I was having trouble telling them apart, not because they all look alike, but because they're all kind of going for the same look.

And because it's just getting introduced to them, I was like, what? Like, who, it kind of reminded me of the other day. I was at the ROM, the, whatever, the Ontario Museum, whatever the R stands for. Is it royal? I don't know. Royal, I think.

Royal? It was very regal. I was there the other day, and there was a bust of an ancient Egyptian, Queen and it was like there was a note that's like this isn't what she would have looked like it's been augmented to reflect the ideals of the time and I was like you know what I'm seeing this in the housewives in that like we're all doing our own version of this ideal look and that feels very yeah more the sunnier states for me as opposed to New York we're like we're kind of having our own individual style so I was like 3,000 years from now people are going to be ex- excavating DVDs of the real housewives of Orange County. Like it's the pyramids of Giza and these and putting them up on the on the on the rom and being like this. It reflects the ideals of the time.

These were the ideals of the time. Yeah. That is what I thought. I was like, it's cyclical. So, okay, taglines. I found these taglines were really interesting. I'll shout out a couple. the best one by far for me personally is an orange county i call the shots and it's always

tequila that's Shannon and i was just like it's just yeah it's just friend to back it's good it works it's like it adds up um the other two that stood out for me um okay i will say i struggled with emily but i think that's because and this is something they say on the 30 going on 13 podcast, a podcast I listen to a lot. We hate most in others what we see in ourselves. And I saw Emily as a bit of a pick me girl. Are you both aware of what that means? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Just because so I saw her a bit of like, I'm just one of the, I'm just cool. Like, and I, I have trouble with that persona because I will say it was one that I kind of, I was aligned with at a certain point in life that I'm very much, I'm trying to go from an Emily

to a Jenna, I guess, is what I could say. So I was like, like her tagline, if you want to waste my time, at least have me a taco. Like when women are like, oh my God, I eat food. Like I have trouble with that. And a taco, it's like the quintessential. It's either taco or burger because that's like a more pizza.

Yeah, like a junkie like quote unquote male food. And I'm like, get over yourself. That being said, her outfit at the pool party, I love. We can get into that. Oh, and then Gina, this struck me. I really liked Gina on site. She has a cuckoo accent. I was like, where is this girl from?

She sounds like she's from like three different places. But I liked her because she had a bob so I could tell her apart from everyone, first of all. I liked her because, but I, okay, sorry, I'm getting, I'm tripping over myself. I guess I was more struck by these women than I thought. I liked her, but her tagline, the difference between my past and my present, well, that's just apples and oranges. I was like, that feels like someone who's very embarrassed by their past, the fact that you even have to mention it in your tagline as opposed to just being who you are now. The fact that you have to be like, like there was a girl on RuPaul's drag race, Roxy Andrews, where she always had to mention, I was a bitch on my first season, but I'm here to be like, and I sense a defensiveness or like an embarrassment. And I was like, oh, that makes me sad that you can't just be like, here I am, this is who I am now, take me as who I am now.

And then real quick, my other, I really like Tamara. I was like, I was just like immediately just thought she was cute. And something about her struck me. I'm not sure what it is. Maybe I'll figure it out as we go. But I was just like, there was just something very appealing about Tamara to me. Maybe she's just cute. I don't know, but those are my initial

initial thoughts. Yeah, I think like Tamara is one of the best housewives that ever played the game. So yeah, that's a very good pick for someone that would, you know, be standout. There's, I think there's like any number of reasons why you could like Tamara and they'd all be 100% valid. She's got so much dimension to her as a,

as a housewife, as a character on these, both in terms of, you know, just how she conducts herself on screen in order to, um, to seem like very, like, honest or also very manipulative and, um, also just very unhinged a lot of the time. Yeah. She's just a, she's just such a fucking wildcard. She's so unpredictable. And that's why she's the engine of the show to be.

Yeah, she definitely reminds me of, um, there are certain women that when I meet them, like yeah kind of Tamara types like party girl off the wall kuku fun that bring out a side of me that I don't often get to hang out with and I get really um intoxicated by their presence and I find myself like just acting away I wouldn't normally saying yes to things I wouldn't normally and um I think everyone needs one of those like one of those friends we are like I have no idea what's going to happen tonight. So that's probably part of why I responded to her. She reminds me of those wildcard friends where people are like, oh, you hang out with her? And I'm like, yeah, she's great. Like, kind of like, um, Chloe from the circle or too hot to handle or, or perfect match. She's just like

this like party British girl who's like, ah. And like not normally my tip, but I love her. I would die for her. So it's just like I, yeah, I love those outliers, those wild cards. Yeah, I think like that's a great read on Tamara and that's something that she really plays to her advantage. She's able to like get people to come along for the ride and use that to create, you know, social opportunities for herself, whether it's so that they get in trouble with someone else or do her bidding for her in whatever sort of plan or whatever she's trying to exercise within the group socially. she uses that to her advantage and is still like really, really likable. What were your highlights from this episode? Okay, let's see here.

Oh, I will say real quick that I think this is the, I think this version of the show seems to be the template for when people parody Housewives because the confessionals, the very brightly lit like green screen of your house like confessionals. I was like, oh, I've seen people do this on TikTok and I always thought, oh, that's a low budget version of. And then I was like, no, that's actually what it looks like. There's something very sterile, low budget, like fluorescent lighting almost that I was like, oh, this is the show. Like, so those parodies are very accurate. So that feels like this show really informs a lot of things I've seen. Oh, okay, I'm just scrolling down and seeing the highlights that I

bolded. The first one I have, I don't know why this stood out to me, but I wrote, Gina's boyfriend's being mean to her about the pasta, and I feel defensive for her. Because I don't like,

she's already in this vulnerable situation where like she's done the thing, she's made friends with her like ex's partner and they're hanging out and then this person's like, at least that's what I thought was happening. And then she's like, like I said, I didn't know what was happening a lot of the time. But then she was like, oh, this one time Gina made a handmade a meal and it was so nice.

And he was like, well, she didn't really make it. And like, I understand teasing someone. Like, I understand. And then he was like, it wasn't real pasta. And like, you know, I understand there's a time and a place to tease someone. But when someone's getting complimented and loved on, like, I just, and I already felt defensive of Gina because I'm like, she has. has some kind of past that she's very ashamed of. And now he's like, whatever.

And like, I also just feel like throughout this episode, I was seeing Gina being like such a bright light and so wanting to speak about things on such a deep level. And there was another scene where her and Travis were having dinner. And she was just like, wow, I'm just really feeling this way right now. And he was going, yeah, totally. I just, I was like, what a boring math. And I'm like, just because he's not toxic doesn't mean he's the pinnacle of like what boyfriend you should have, Gina. Like, I think she deserves better. So I was just very defensive of a girl I had just met at this point when he started making fun of her with a pasta.

A rare misplay from her boyfriend, Travis. I think that he's like very awkward on. TV and like you said Melanie he's like very boring and his greatest trait is that he's not toxic. That's like that's that's his like his whole thing is like he's not like problematic and he like says the right things. But aside from that, it's like he's so boring to me. And yeah, that's that's bang on. You're you're speaking my language with that. Okay, good. I was going to say the same thing honestly. He is just like a really boring man. And she's talking about this meal he made it.

She's like, I think that was the last time you made a meal. And it's like, actually, I think it was like two years ago. Like, all right, maybe. But did she just say it? And then she goes out of her way to make a meal his favorite meal, by the way. And his reception was lukewarm for someone who was like, oh, you haven't cooked for two years. Then she was like, is it good? And he was like, yeah, it's good.

And I was like, can you just be effusive for one moment? Like, can you just be like, well, thank you. That this is really nice. Like, it doesn't have to be, you don't have to be the most expressive, like, animated person. But you could just make her feel appreciated for going out of her way to do this thing. At least you didn't say, yeah, the sauce is great. I love that brand. Are you both?

Do you, are you a canned sauce? Are you two canned sauce boys? Do you make your own sauce? No, I stopped liking Gene at that moment, honestly. It depends on the situation, I will say. Yeah, it depends on the situation. We actually do a lot of HelloFresh, and their sauce that they typically have with whatever past the dishes,

I really enjoy. We're not sponsored by HelloFresh, but if you work for Hello Fresh, you know, just hit us up in our DM. I just feel like if you're making a chicken parlor, you're putting sauce out of the jar, what did you make? It's assembly. It's not cooking. It's assembly.

That's true, but I thought those artichokes looked really cute. They did, yeah. The bowl of roasted artichokes. I'm not sure what they were doing with them, but it did look really cute. Yeah. I guess they're just eating the leaves one of the time, yeah. Who's to say? I haven't had artichokes in such a way, but I was like, that looks like a thing a chef would do.

Yeah. I love why you said that like you were Gina. You really mustered her like six states at the same time. Yeah, her, okay, I'm so glad we line up on that. that because some words I was like, okay, what accent is that? And it would be like one word out of a sentence. And I was like, she's fascinating to me. I'll do a, you know what? I'll do a jarred sauce. I also do HelloFresh. And that's been opened me up to a world of, of little tips and tricks that I have really appreciated learning from the good people at HelloFresh. But you know what I like to do is take a pre-packaged item and

upgrade it with my own ingredients. That's usually what I do. Oh, yeah. In my 20s, I loved getting the the frozen pizza and then like sprinkling some garlic powder on it. That was like how I spiced up a frozen pizza when I was in my 20s. I like-tallel great great trick. Yeah. You did the hand gesture like it was real fancy like a chef would do like sprinkle some garlic sauce.

Yeah, it was like the salt bait thing. Yeah, yeah, it was very salt bait. I was thinking it was closer to the time of Emeril Lagassee, the bam. Oh yeah, bam You know, you throw a basil leaf on there And I'm believing you made that pizza Um

So my next You throw a basil leaf on there Oh basil I believe you own a pizzeria It's true If you want to find a basil leaf You got to go into the garage The carriage

Um My next highlight Okay I really liked When Tamara and Emily went for their little kitchy cowboy bar get together. I thought that was really sweet. And I guess I hadn't previously liked Emily,

but I liked them in this interaction. I think it would be so hard to have seen someone on television saying their unfiltered opinion of you and then sit across the table from that person and go over that. I was like, they're made a stronger stuff than me. And I know they've been on this show a long time, But I was like, that's huge for me. And just like Tamara saying, I'm really glad we're friends.

Like just when people are open in such a way, like I have, because as adults, it's hard to make friends. And like, I've had people in the comedy scene reach out to me and be like, I'd really like to be friends. And just when people are that transparent, it makes me smile. It's really sweet. Oh, I wrote, why am I getting emotional over this open communication and friendship? what I wrote because I was getting a little misty. I thought it's really sweet. And then, oh, and I laughed when Emily,

she was like, Tamara was like, you called me the devil. And then later Emily was like, cheers to that, you devil bitch. And like the fact that they'd like turned it around that quickly, I thought that was a cute line. Like I said, I don't always love when people talk in sound bites, but that was a really fun when you can, when you're over it enough to make a joke about it, that's like the moment when you know you're okay.

And I just, I really liked, I really liked that interaction a lot. Yeah, I've got a lot of notes from this cowboy bar scene as well. This was, again, I'm always looking at the like the social gamesmanship of it. And I thought that this was a really interesting play by Emily to try to, try to align herself a little bit more with them or maybe not like fully like hatch out an alliance but um kind of things seemed like they were starting to settle after the last episode it seemed like lines were kind of being drawn and uh tamara and shannon's relationship was going to really be

solidified as this really strong social force within the show um i think her going and being like open with tamera and being like oh where where are things at with you and Shannon like seeing how trying to get a read on it and then being like well this is what I heard from Heather and this is like something that Gina has also heard have you heard this as well kind of confirming that you know Heather has been like talking shit yeah and I thought that it was really interesting that she was going to use this um to position, you know, Tamara and Shannon against, against Heather or see kind of how that impacts a relationship with Tamara and Shannon, really just trying to like mix things up.

I think one of the things that we see on a lot of like more boring seasons of Housewives is that we have sides that are very like pretty like well defined and, you know, there's not a lot of movement in terms of how people align with each other. Actually, I shouldn't say that because we just watched a season of Real Housewives in New Jersey that was very much like that, which was fantastic. But I think it can make for more boring television if it's very like clear cut, well defined, you know, this side versus that side. But we're seeing a big mix up on Orange County.

And it's really interesting to watch how people are trying to keep that, keep the water agitated so that pieces are like moving and not not ever settling and I thought this was a really great scene since it was like since Tamara was in a cowboy bar I was expecting her son Ryan to like saddle up and take their drink order we didn't see that unfortunately but I'm still not convinced he's not he's working at a ranch he's probably working at that bar he just he's just out of sight interesting I didn't know she had a son who's working at a ranch. Yeah, allegedly.

He shows up in every scene, like when they're just like lounging around the house or out at a party. He's wearing his like cowboy hat and his like belt buckle when it's really uncalled for. Really entertaining. Yeah. He just awkwardly saunders it and it's like, hey, howdy? Oh my God. He's hilarious. That bar did like fucking terrible though.

I hate that bar. instantly. But it's another great example of why I love these like weird Orange County settings. Like you go to this like fucking like fake simulated dive bar and order a bottle of champagne. You've noticed you see the border champagne at a bowling alley. Here we see the border champagne in a fake dive bar. It's the their world is so ridiculous. It's just a strange place where they live. But I will say I'm kind of you know to throw it back to my tagline. I'm kind of that bitch. Like, I love to, like, get sushi at a mall food court. Like, I love, like, the, like, fancy versus not, like, doing something very fancy in a setting that's not fancy,

or vice versa, like, um, eating with your hands in a restaurant where that would not be dignified. Like, you know, just like, mixing it up. Um, but I do understand the, like, the audacity of, like, a fake dive bar. It's like, what? Just either, like, go to an authentic dive bar or go, go, where you really want to go. Like, you're like, oh, I want dive, but not sticky tables. Like, it's very, um, you want everything catered to you. I want there to be a row of fans and it's well lit. Yeah.

A huge sign that says cocktails. I'll go to a dive bar if it's not like a dive, you know. So I do understand that. Oh, my other, one of my other highlights, there were a couple of moments. Oh, there were a few moments at this, this big. pool, should we call it a pool party? It was a slip and slide party. Yeah. Quite a lot happening there.

This is a rich text. So I'll just go very quickly. One thing that made me L-O-L is there's a sign on the charcutory board table that says, I love you to the moon and back. And that's just a little girl world thing that makes me laugh. is little signs that say things that don't make any sense that you're just like, it's not the charcutory board. Like that doesn't like that's so stupid. But it's like you're just like, you're just like, oh, it's cute.

It says something. Like, I don't know. There's something indefinably silly about that that made me laugh. Yeah. I wrote, I'm impressed by Heather's use of the term dalliance in a flashback. She says, oh, you two had a dalliance. Yeah. So there's a part at the slip and slide, at the champagne slip and slide party where a fight breaks out.

There's a very intense conversation happening. Didn't fully understand the backstory, but that's fine. And two of the girls are talking to each other. And they say, do we suck for not going over there? And the other one's like, I mean, there's no room on the chairs. And she says it in such a way that like really, really cut me out. Just like, there's no room on the chair. It's just like such a, such a move I would make, first of all,

where I'm like, I don't want to get involved in that. I will take any excuse to not be part of that conversation. But that really made me laugh. But then they all go over there. But then they're all like, we're all going. And then everybody is just like, like just flies on a piece of meat on a table. Everybody's crowding around them like, I'm part of this conversation. Oh, and then that made me laugh too, where they all descend on them.

And then the two that are talking, one of them goes to the other. I'd like to talk to you alone, actually. And they act like they weren't trying to do that in the first place. And then they're like, okay, let's go over here. And it's just very cartoonish. Yeah, very silly. Yeah. Yeah, this was a fantastic scene.

I love Jen showing up in black for her own funeral. Like I immediately made the mental note. I was like, oh, yeah, she's dressed in black for her own funeral. And then she made that exact same joke in her confession. but it totally was like it was a complete setup on the part of tamrop her to set her up with her ex friend Heather dick pick Heather or whatever yeah coming to like start shit I yeah I thought it was really really nice little visual touch that we got for her entrance there oh the shadow of the netting on her face was so yeah high camp like loved it yeah

Oh, here's a quote from Jen I really liked. I don't remember the context of this. Shame on you for hurting me once. Shame on me if I keep letting you do this. Way to restate an extremely popular saying in a worse way. That's the thing. I love when people get something wrong. People confidently saying something wrong is one of my favorite things.

like if there's like a sound alike word and you use the the sound the wrong one but you're just saying it in such a like it's in a moment of like being very defensive that's that's just like the funniest thing for me because you're making a buffoon of yourself while you think that you're winning so yeah I I laughed and laughed um I have I you said to look out for shady editing uh I found a couple oh there was one okay two in a row. Shane, she's like, oh, well, that's like saying, is the sky blue? Like, did Tamara take her tits out? Like, is the sky blue? And he was like, is Shane

handsome? Or no, wait, that wasn't the one. That was just, that was just a random thing that bothered me because I was like, Shane makes no, when men are on these kind of shows and they make no effort with their appearance and these women make all the effort. I'm like, just do something. That was just random. No, there was a, there was a shady thing. It was Vicky talking about her boyfriend. Vicki's a partner. Yeah, when she's like, I mean, have you seen him? And then they show the most average photo of him.

And they just cut to it. Like a slow zoom on like a very tired old man's face. Very tired old man. It felt very shady. And there was another one where Jen and Ryan are getting spiritual healing. And they made the editing was so whackadoo bananas. They were just like doing this woman no favors. They were like, we're not going to make.

They're not even going to. to try and make this look normal. Like, like, when she was like, eh, they just like, and then she stops. And he goes, I've been writing in my journal. And she's like, oh, great. And like, it was. That was my favorite part. So absurd.

And just to go for like earlier on when Timers talking about Jen and they're like, oh, like, is she going to therapy? And she's like, yeah, her therapist is a psychic. And then to just like call back to that later by seeing them in therapy with this woman I just like interminally going eh. And oh, it killed me. That was hilarious. I love it.

I just love seeing the like, yeah, the kooky shit these people do instead of like doing like, you know, any kind of actual therapy. Just like the weird insane shit they do. And I love this intuitive healer. I hope she becomes a cast member. She's the best. Oh, I would love it. She was so, and I think this was the editing, but she was so on demand because she

asked the legit question. And then, like, Jim was like, oh, no, you know what? Why don't you just, she says something like, why don't you just go into the healing? And then she's like, eh? Like, and it was just like abrupt. She's like, all right, cool. And that was hilarious to me. And also good for her.

I couldn't just like slip into something like that. Oh, and you mentioned this earlier, but loco bon tempo with a tres amigos. was very funny to me. Because I looked up, I'd never heard Buen tempo before, and it said that it meant weather. So I don't know if that's just like a bad translation, but if it is the real translation, that's very funny, is to be like,

crazy weather with the three friends, like is a funny thing to say. But I liked, oh, and then, yeah, the cliffhanger at the end of this, where I honestly couldn't make head nor tales of like there was a dick pick thing flying around and then there was a thing of like Shannon's relationship and what's going on there. I really couldn't understand any of that. But when she's like, if this gets out, my relationship is over, I was like, oh, damn,

now I kind of really want to watch. Like it really, it was juicy for me. I liked it. It was an insane cliphanger, especially since the last thing we see is just this weird little cup to Vicki making some bizarre noise. She's just like, ah. That's like the last moment we get before they cut, they smash cut to black. It was, it was such a crazy ending.

I loved it. And Vicky, by the way. Oh, just quickly. I don't want to be shady, but Vicki's got crazy eyes. So like, you cut to her any time and I'm like, so she certainly makes a dramatic cut to Vicky for sure. Yeah. I love any time that we. get like a fourth wall break where we see like production having to react to the the story in

real time and so seeing you know Shannon want to be off mic and like I just thought this whole scene at the table was so good the way that it built up to like Shannon being like I know immediately what they're referring to and I need to get this mic off me I thought that that was such a compelling way to end this it was also really great to see Vicky back on screen because she has not been on the show in like three years or something like that. And she's the OG of the OC. She was on season one until like season 14 or 15 or something like that. So she's got such a huge history, especially with Shannon and Tamara.

So seeing them together, she should have never been like put on break. She should have never been put on pause. It's great to see her back and immediately like in a meaningful capacity. I think it kind of contrasts something that we saw on Real Housewives of Atlanta this season where they brought back the OGs of Atlanta for the most part the OGs for like a lunch and it had like zero consequence. It was, you know, just really nothing. Yeah, exactly. So to see Vicki immediately at the table for something important happening was really nice. And it felt to me like, oh, O.C is like.

is back. It was and I love that makes sense when you say they're like the OG because there's a dynamic between Vicky and or Shannon and Tamara when Shannon was just sitting there with her mouth closed and she was like well no one's talking shit about me and and Tamara was like uh and like didn't I don't think said anything the whole time just sat there with her mouth like forcibly closed in such a way that Shannon was like wait they are I know exactly what they are I know exactly what this is about oh shit and like it just exploded from there and like watching tamera just sit there with her lips pursed while Shannon freaked out was like a very fun dynamic that they know each other that well yeah yeah that was great about this just the way that they tap into knowing each other so

well that they can read each other's expressions and eye movements was like really entertaining yeah and also just knowing knowing the game right Like just like I think we often talk about Shannon just being kind of like clumsy and unstrategic and just like just really like messy but still likable. And this kind of showed like she's been in the game long enough. She knows exactly what is coming around and was able to pick up on it without any words being uttered. And Tamara's version of a poker face is hilarious. Just inhale her own. Yeah, he's like, nope, nope.

Yeah, it was quite the bombshell moment and it did make me at least want to tune in for one more. Oh, yes. Hopefully it's a good one and it completely hooks you. Yeah. Dylan, do you have any highlights from OC that we haven't gone over? Just little things. The ancient mother named Paris pronounced Paris for some reason. Oh, yeah.

I don't know if she was entertaining to me. I do like that we get Tamara doing another like really over the top apology when she's talking to Jen, which we've seen her do that before. Just like instead of doing like the hedging your bets kind of apology, they usually do just going like full on like fucking, oh, I apologize. Unreservedly. I'm the worst. I'll cut off my pinky finger and present it to you in a little cushion. And and, but it actually gets results this time. Like she actually like breaks through to Jed and Jen like starts talking about like.

Oh, you know, like why these comments hurt me? Because I actually am insecure up on my relationship. And actually, you know, my partner actually did do something that hurt me. And that we actually get like a little bit more of a motion from Jen showing why she's been reacting the way she does. Like Tamara's like a crazy, exaggerated theatrical apology actually works. It actually breaks her down. So I really enjoyed that a lot. You know, I love little waiter cameos in these shows.

I was always going to point out a good waiter cameo. And I do love the old man who should, for the Trace Amigos lunch. She was just like, welcome to Mozambique. I really like the welcome to Mozambique guy. He was great. Five stars for him. And when Tamara's like, if that's what she's having, then why? Like when people are going like, yeah, girl.

And the waiter's just like, okay. Like, I've been, I've been that server many a time where you're just watching someone else have an amazing time and you're like, great. Yeah. Otherwise, I think we pretty much covered everything for me. Yeah, I think we covered through most of my notes as well. There was one of the note about Gina that I had that I thought was striking when she was talking about how the infidelity, like, is lasting, has a bigger impact on her than the domestic

violence incident that she had with her ex. I thought that it was just really a striking comment and I really appreciate. I've said before that I think Gina is very like sincere and emotionally honest and I think she's having a really good season. And this was just another moment that really added to the full picture of her because I think it's you know i think that that takes a lot of um self awareness i guess or introspection to like come to that sort of conclusion and then to air it and i'm you know i don't want to make assumptions but i feel like there probably are people that have had similar situations to her um who

are you know might have a similar feelings inside and it almost would seem like taboo to kind of express that. And so I appreciated her emotional honesty and her willingness to put that out there. I thought that was really, really fantastic. Yeah, I forgot about that. But I wrote somewhere in here, wait, what was he charged with? And then I googled it. And I was like, ah!

And then she started talking about it. And I was like, I cannot believe we are getting this real. on. I don't think I ever expected this show to delve into those waters. And like you said, it might be taboo to, I think feelings are messy and reactions don't make sense. And probably society would dictate that this is the thing that should be the more serious than this thing. But it was the betrayal for her. And I almost, that almost makes sense to me. And, um, I, yeah, I really, that was, that was definitely a striking moment where I thought it was weighty and, uh, I was, I was impressed with the honesty. Yeah, because I think like, you know, there's probably a lot of like shame that she carries as a result of those feelings.

Like, because that like intuitively just, you know, you would think that it was like a very serious. a domestic incident that that happened and um you would think that that would kind of trump anything else that would any other trauma associated with that relationship and so for her to kind of come forward and and be like well it's actually this like betrayal that is affecting me more um i feel like there you know people might um feel shame for caring feelings like that so I definitely appreciate her coming out with that. Another little moment that I had written down here was there's just like during the montage of the glam moments, we got a little scene where Jen was getting ready and has a like a call from Ryan.

And he makes a joke about like, it's like, oh, can I get the rest of the girls' numbers? Because I've got this like dick that I'm working on, which like it's really, really like, off color and like kind of inappropriate because it it seems pretty clear to me that he like he did send an unsolicited dick pick which is you know not cool and for him to be like making a joke about it and really like diminishing actual feelings that someone would have about this is like really inappropriate and then we get jen like falling it up with like isn't he such a sweetheart like he's just such a sweet little cutie for making a joke like Yeah, but what he's doing is he's underlining to Jen how much the other people's story is fake, you know, that's what, right?

Like he's he's reinforcing his narrative by being like, like what their, their accusation that I intentionally said to dick pick to somebody else is so absurd that why don't we joke about it, me and you, you know? He's reinforcing their story against against other people's. That's interesting. I forgot about that. And I meant to ask about that because I was like, if. it's actually all been blown out of proportion and he's like a good guy and this didn't happen, then that is a funny joke to make. If not, it's kind of gaslighty and like you said, reinforcing the narrative and like, we both know this is stupid, right, babe? Like kind of manipulative.

And so, yeah, that was, I hadn't highlighted it, but that was when I wrote in my notes for sure where I was like, oh, I'm not sure how I feel about that. So yeah, that's interesting because like I said, I couldn't make head nor tails a bit. So if we're like, no, this guy sucks and he did do this thing, then yeah, I feel entirely differently about the joke. And yeah, it's, it makes me, oh, it makes me want to shake her and be like, you got to see things for what they are. I guess like some context about like what we do and don't know about this situation to

like, I guess inform any judgments we want to make. he has like said that like he did send this dick pick that is a is a fact but his explanation for it was that um he's only got like four people in his snapchat he's got his kids he's got jen and he's got this heather girl and he accidentally said it to all of them oh yeah okay i didn't realize his kid's got it too yeah but i i don't know i i don't know i i don't buy it he seems like they haven't talked about his kids actually getting it they haven't like mentioned that they haven't like dealt into that it just seems like a flimsy excuse there's it doesn't pass the gut check for me that's for sure but then there was that there was that flashback i think when

she uses the word dalliance when she's like oh you guys were on a break like so was that was that part the dick pick pick narrative or is that a different thing entirely so there is like a little bit of it's kind of unclear the timeline for jen's relationship that's something that people have been questioning on the show so she's a brand new housewife this season jen and um so they're kind of questioning like oh has ryan actually cheated on her in the past and she's like well he slept with someone but they were on a break or something like that and i'm not entirely sure where this dick pick fits into that timeline. I haven't got the like the yarn on the on the wall and like traced out the the map yet.

But yeah, it's still a little bit unclear to me. It seems pretty obvious that he is at the very least a pretty like sleazy guy. We've seen this archetype before on like in a bunch of different iterations on this show. So I don't know. like not to like judge a book by its cover but I don't know we've we've read a few pages now I feel like yeah and there was you know psychologically when Jen in the flashback when the person's like I think it was there was like oh well so you guys were on a break and she's like yeah yeah it was just and she looked so relieved that this person was like not going to take her to task and be like this guy sucks

that the story was being bought. There was a little like red flag for me that I was like, ooh, she, in the back of her mind, she's not okay with this either, but she has this story that she's been comforting herself with. So when someone can reinforce that story for her, she's like, yeah, yeah, that's what it was. And like, I did kind of read that.

Yeah, we've seen a lot of that from Jen. And then Tamara kind of finally gets her to kind of break through to her actual feelings, where she is hurt by it. That's the, and the napkin in the face was, I did, I did look up that specific clip

because it was referenced. And I was like, you know, I don't love a napkin in the face, but I've been there, I've been there with a friend before at the breaking point where you're like, why can't you see this?

And like, I've never thrown things at them, but I do, I understand. And I don't know if that's just because I like Tamara, but I was like, eh. That's okay.

Awesome. Well, I think that about covers real hostwives of Orange County. Quickly, I just want to do one last segment where we go over who is hunky dory and who can rot in hell. This is just an opportunity for us to call out anything that we want to call out. It doesn't have to be bravo related. It's just anything we want to gripe about that can rot in hell. We can pick that. or anything that is Hunky Dory that we want to recommend.

Melody, we'll start with you. Okay. Is this, do I do both at the same time or are we starting with one or the other? Yeah, whichever one you want to start. Okay. I'll start with Hunky Dory. This relates. Who is Hunky Dory?

This relates back to Hello Fresh. Hunkey Dory, you can have a meal. without grains. And I feel like I feel like I've often felt that grains have to like anchor a meal. And I've been on a digestive health journey where I learned that I was gluten-free, that I've always known I had to be lactose-free, but I was like gluten. So, but then I'm still filling up on like the rice or any like gluten-free grain because for some reason I've just been brainwashed to think that I need a grain to feel full. And then I had a hell of fresh meal that was just like a lot of veggies with like some meatballs and a nice sauce. And I was like, I feel fantastic. I don't need a grain. And so that was just a really

exciting moment for me. It sounds like what you would love is Shaksuka. Ah, you know what? I do really like eggs. That's a grainless meal right there. It's a grainless meal. It's a grainless meal. It's eggs, there's a little bit of flavor. I do think I'd like a shakshuka, actually. Awesome. Did you have a rotten hell or? Yeah, my rotten hell is people who gently warn women that they aren't attractive to men. Like I was talking to a woman who right now is weight training and she loves it. And she said that a lot of the accounts, and you see this, but this is just a good example. You see it in all forms. But on these fitness accounts where women are bodybuilders, people will be in the comments. And it's not like, ew, you look gross. It's like, ooh, you look gross.

It's like, ooh, you're actually quite muscular and men aren't attracted to that. Like, it feels very, I'm gently breaking it to you that men aren't going to like this. And like it really feels like the person thinks they're doing this woman a favor. And you see it from all, you see all genders do this to women. You see it like, and it's just something where I'm like, can we just assume that if someone has put on an outfit or done something drastic to their body that would have taken a lot of time and effort that they wanted that and that they probably weighed out the pros and cons in terms of like dating, et cetera, like I've had it with my tattoos, people being like, oh, you know, what are you going to do on your wedding day with those tattoos?

You know, it's just like, don't let's just, I don't like it. So that's why I put it in the rotten hell. Rotten hell. Totally. They can, they can rotten hell. That's something that we actually see in the Housewives universe. We see people make those sorts of like comments on Instagram about someone's plastic surgery and that sort of thing. that's typically, you know, kind of a target for that kind of behavior as well.

So totally rotten hell. Yeah. Dylan, how about you? I'll do this quickly. Honky Dory, Jen's new Maleficent-ass confessional look that she debuted this episode. Who is Honky Dory? Yeah. Rotten hell to Heather for wearing a wet suit on a slip and slide.

Stop do it if you know what to do it. What the fucking you doing? Heather's fashion choices I've been insane this whole season and not in the way that I approve of. I'm sternly disapproving a profession person. Heather, I will say I just found kind of boring overall. Couldn't get a read on her. I was like, okay. Yeah.

I agree. Yeah. My rotten hell also goes to this week. It's been announced that she is like building or renovating a new house in Beverly Hills. and so she was kind of hinting that we're going to get another storyline of her doing a renovations, which is like something that we saw the last time she was on Real Housewives Orange County. There was like a two, it felt like eight season long storyline of her renovating this house. And I just don't want to see it again.

I am shocked when I see people commenting on Instagram that they're excited about this because it just like, it fills me with a sense of dread. So Heather can rot in hell for buying a house, I guess. Hunky Dory is not Bravo related But I wanted to follow one of my favorite podcasts It's a poor little thing podcast Amy Good Murphy and Ryan Steele have an excellent podcast It's really hilarious

I definitely recommend checking it out And I think that about does it for Bravo Outsider this week Melanie, thank you so much for doing this Do you want to let everyone know where they can find you? Yeah, you can find me on Instagram Melanie Dalling It's like Darling

but with an H and Cynch and Cynchran. And that's where I got a link tree on there. You can find me and listen to my comedy album, please. Yeah, it's a great album. Also, it felt like a bit of a love letter to Winnipeg to me and kind of like a love, love and hate. I really appreciate that. So anyone in our audience that is in Winnipeg especially, I think you'll really enjoy it. So check that out.

Dylan, how about yourself? If you want to hear me jab around a little bit more, you can look up the podcast Mind Over Splatter. Hear me talk about horror movies. I've teased it before, but in a couple weeks, don't quite have the date yet set. There's going to be the premiere of the devil you don't. A new limited history show about cryptal zoology, obscure American literary controversies, colonial New Jersey, all the shit the kids love. There's a guy named Caleb Pussy in it. It's a wonderful family. great awesome I am looking forward to that that's been Bravo Outsider for this week I'm Craig

Midwinter you can find us online bravo outsider.com you can find us wherever you're listening to podcast we're on YouTube Bravo Outsider Instagram at Bravo Outsider threads at Bravo Outsider X at Bravo underscore Outsider until next week keep on wiping