Oscars Outsider - Clash of the Wieners w/ Sean O'Rourke (VPR S10E12, RHONJ S13E12)

Episode Date: April 29, 2023

Join Craig Midwinter, Dylan Ferguson, and special guest Sean O'Rourke in this exhilarating episode of the Bravo Outsider podcast as they dive deep into Vanderpump Rules and Real Housewives of New Jersey! Get ready for: 🍸 Vanderpump Rules: James Kennedy's side-splitting comedy, the iconic bromance between Tom Schwartz and Tom Sandoval, and the jaw-dropping drink-throwing clash between James and Schwartz! 🍝 Real Housewives of New Jersey: Intriguing housewife-husband dynamics, and the laugh-out-loud sketch-drawing adventure in Ireland!  🤔 Roundtable Discussion: A thought-provoking conversation about the term "guilty pleasure" and the language we use when discussing reality TV. Subscribe and listen now on YouTube and Apple Podcasts! #BravoOutsider #VanderpumpRules #RealHousewivesOfNewJersey Find Dylan on substack at https://dylanferguson.substack.com/ Music by FASSounds [https://pixabay.com/users/fassounds-3433550/?utm_source=link-attribution&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=music&utm_content=112194] from Pixabay [https://pixabay.com//?utm_source=link-attribution&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=music&utm_content=112194]

Hello and welcome to episode 12 of the Bravo Outsider podcast. I'm your host Craig Midwinter and with me as always is my co-host, Dylan Ferguson. Dylan, how's it going? Episode 12 already. Wow, yeah, doing great. Yeah, crazy. Crack open a Guinness with you guys here. Oh.

Slovakia. You know, I like to get those. Drinks in. This was a dangerous when they carried my backpack. I was considering trying to replicate what Katie's hair of the dog hangover drink was, which appeared to be White Claw and Tito's. Yeah, I thought

it was white. It's been too horrible. I thought it was white claw and Kool-Aid. I was not sure about that. I thought there was a Tito's bottle that she was a horrible, but I might be wrong about that. Pretty sure of a long bottle of Titos. Yeah. I understand why Gordo was judging her for that.

I think even Lala was judging her for that. You know, when you're getting judged by somebody who walked in wearing an Axel Rose Halloween costume, you've made up a bad choice. I like how she immediately had to clarify, like, I never do this. And Lala's like, yeah, you never do this.

Let the record stage. Each week, we bring on a guest who doesn't follow Bravo. Make them watch the shows and then get their takes this week. We're pleased to have joining us, Sean O'Rourke. Ever danced with the booger wolf in the pale moonlight? Awesome.

Well, Sean, you aren't exactly a complete Bravo noob, like some of our past guests. You've actually watched some Housewives before. A long time ago, your fandom has kind of been mostly dormant. Is that right? Yeah. I had my phase like 10 years ago, and I was a big Orange County

and a little bit of New York guy. And a little bit of that early, I think first season, Beverly Hills. Oh, yeah. From which I only remember a scene of Kelsey Grammer's ex-wife describing his body hair. But since then, nothing. Camille, the legend.

Yeah. Okay, so you hadn't really watched any of Jersey or Vanderpump rules before then, right? No. I mean, I recognize Teresa and, I want to say Melissa on Jersey. I'd maybe seen a little bit of it. And then Vanderpump rules, I only know Lisa.

Have you noticed any way that the Bravo content has evolved since, you know, 10 years ago when you watched? It feels very similar to me, but I've aged. So now it just, like, Vanderpump rules just seems very exhausting to me. Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, just watching them like, and I mean, some of the people on Vanderpump rules are older than me and the fact that they're able to just go out and like go so hard. Yeah, don't they mention that Tom Schultz is like 40 or something?

Yeah, Schwartz and Sandoval are like in their 40s, I believe. Yeah, that's, that seems unsustainable. It's a heroic effort. Yeah, the real casualties are your sperm after that. You got to look at for that methodology. Use the term jizz. Sorry, yeah. I'm not up on the technical jargon.

It's havoc on your jizz results. Yeah. I want to try something a little bit new that we haven't done before before we get into the highlights here, at least for the next couple weeks. I want to kick things off with like a quick roundtable discussion about a topic and sort of how it relates to reality TV. This week I wanted to start with the term guilty pleasure, which is a term that I've heard people, both people that watch reality TV and people who don't use to describe it. So just to kind of give my thoughts before opening up the floor and like feel free to like

disagree with me here. But I really like kind of hate hearing that term used to describe shows like Real Housewives and Vanderpump Rules. Like, I feel like, I don't necessarily hate that term itself, but when you apply it to shows, like, Real Housewives and Vanderpump rules, it just feels like steeped in misogyny. Like, I think, I don't think that people that use it necessarily are, like, being intentionally, like, misogynist. But I think it comes from this, like, societal. tendency to be dismissive of any like femme coded content and like um just kind of like make it

seem like it's less worthy of serious consideration in comparison to like male targeted content um you know which um which kind of like reinforces the double standard would within entertainment um because like the language that we use regarding reality TV. is drastically different, or the language we use regarding, you know, femme-coded content is drastically different than how people talk about, like, comic book movies or sports. Sean, Dylan, your thoughts on that or the term in general? Well, I always want to say that, like, I shouldn't take any guilt in pleasure,

but there's like a deep-seated part of the part of me that was raised Catholic that can't separate the terms. But I think it boils down to, like, aesthetic judgments and moral ones. And, like, those often I don't conflate. Like, I don't see why you would put a moral judgment into watching Real Housewives or Vanderpump rules or anything else. It's only when you get into, like, I don't know, if I were, like, signing up for Roman Polanski's Patreon or something, then maybe there's, like, a way that those conflate. But yeah, I don't know. It doesn't make sense to me to feel guilt in taking in something you're enjoying.

But it does seem really more directed, like you say, Famicode and stuff. Because this is, for example, this is exactly the same as professional wrestling, which I love. Yeah. And that gets, people may think it's a little silly, but I feel like it does not at all get the same, the same kind of aspers cast on it. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah, no, I agree.

Like, I, I, I feel like I mostly agree that you, you know, you shouldn't take, be, feel guilty about something that you take pleasure in. But at the same time, like, guilty pleasure is like a term that I would apply to, you know, the, my love of Hallmark movies, which is something that I, like, also really enjoy at Christmas time watching these Hallmark movies. But I do consider that more of a, uh, of a, uh, of a, guilty pleasure. And like, not because those are also like kind of like femme coded, but I feel like when you're watching something like real housewise, I just think like the way that it's framed for the audience expects a lot more like critical thinking. Like there's, I feel guilty about enjoying Hallmark movies because I think that it places forward values that are, um, like dated and like wrong and like just like overall just like needs updating and just kind of

icky. Um, and that's not to say that housewives doesn't also do that, but I think that the way that it's framed for the audience is different. There's like this expectation that the audience is, you know, thinking about these things critically and, um, you know, because you are, constantly re-evaluating like the positions of the players within within housewives i think you are thinking you know a bit more broadly and more like um like a more worldly sense about like you know it's like oh okay this person is saying like romona is saying whatever romona singer is saying this week which is obviously gonna just be so like backwards and and dated but like you've got that sense.

You are like, you're operating critically as you're consuming it. Whereas, you know, Hallmark movies, you're not. You're supposed to just be like, like feed in the, the warm fuzzies and,

you know, don't think too critically. Yeah, exactly. Right. But then you're also talking about like how you're expected to watch something versus how you're actually watching it. I feel like the way that you are watching it is probably a little bit different than, than what you're describing is the expectation.

And I think that's part of the. reason why for me, like you guys, I don't, I don't like the term guilty pleasures at all. If somebody wants to use it too for like to describe the warm fuzzies they have curling up on the couch with a tub of haggen does watching their shows or whatever, like awesome, like you do you. But the term for me is something that I, that I, that I buck ash, that I, you know, I buck and whinny like a scared horse. It's like that in the same category as calling something entertainment, not art, or calling something a movie, not a film, you know, any attempt to just, yeah, to just pull out the velvet ropes and try to cordon off some art as like, you know, the acceptable, respectable

bit and others as the disreputable ones is just always, to me, I have that reaction of it being just kind of antithetical to the whole project and just very rooted in that the bourgeois project of trying to turn your artistic taste into class signifiers, treating the kind of art that you choose to engage with the same way you would treat like the clothes you wear or like this Ames chair I bought or whatever. You know, that's fine for furniture and your haircuts and what color you paint your door.

Like those things are kind of for that. But I just think that you should be interacting with art in a different way because it's serving a different purpose. And I, when I'm going and sitting in front of a screen and like a content slog and just, you know, get in my fix, I'm, I don't really have a trouble, trouble turning off the inner sensor or whatever is, whatever is making me see myself as a subject in like the social sphere. Like, you know, I'm as subject to super ego pressures as the next motherfucker. But I don't have a trouble like turning that off when I watch art. And maybe I'd have to thank like my brain chemistry for that or something. But I get that some people will like struggle with that.

It can be a thing that's maybe easier said than done. But I think it's something that's worth trying to do. And what bugs me is when people instead of trying to. to buck whatever internalized sensor they have in their head, telling them what you should or should not do because it's a signifier of your class aspirations or like what should be considered correct or not. When you're not only not trying to turn that off, but are embracing it is something that I'm not really okay with because it just seems to be against the whole idea of art, which you should be going into, I think.

as something that will expand your horizons and as something that you can allow to try to let you think about the world in a way that doesn't have you as a subject deeply invested into it. Not saying that it's not like involving yourself in like a social project by engaging with art. But if you if you turn off the super ego pressure, you are sorry about the Freudian interns. I didn't mean to come on your show and start talking like stuff. or something. The Vanderpump rules. The dog, Gordo is super eager.

Watch. And so on. But I just think if you're from the bat, letting that inner sensor decide whether or not you're even allowing yourself to watch something or allowing yourself to watch it with an open mind, instead of feeling like you have to force your perspective into the means of watching it that you're told is the only way you're allowed to watch it.

Like, I'm only allowed to watch this on the surface. I'm only allowed to be entertained, as people say, because I've been told that's all that this is good for. If you're already setting up those barriers for yourself, well, you're missing an opportunity to maybe rewire the way you think and to maybe engage with a fuller range of artistic experience. And I get that there's a little high associated too with, you know, strapping it on the rough collar and being the, the Puritan censorist critic and, you know,

getting to decide what's good and what's right and what's not. But I don't think you're gaining anything by that and you are potentially amputating artistic experiences that could be really nourishing if you allowed yourself to. Yeah, that's, that's a good point. And I, like, I wonder if there is like a discrepancy between, you know, people who, when they're discussing this like their fandom of Bravo shows and use the term guilty pleasure, whether they

actually like internally consider it a guilty pleasure or if that's just, you know, how they label it when they talk about it. And you know, I think I probably have to acknowledge a little bit of privilege as someone who

identifies as a straight male. I don't really have to worry about entering into any like conversation and you know articulating my love for bravo as i often do and worry about you know whether or not my you know my peers in the workplace are going to continue to take me seriously i feel like there's um you know probably a lot of women you know do have to be a lot more guarded especially in like male dominated fields so i do expect that there is you know a discrepancy between the way that people talk about it and the way they actually consume the art.

Almost like the phrase guilty pleasure can be sort of an insulation from criticism of crappy dudes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just like, yeah, insulation from criticism in general, I think. And, you know, I think, yeah, I think, you know, it's, you have to do what you have to do in order to like get by based on, the, you know, the circumstances that you're in. So I don't think that anyone is, you know, propping up the patriarchy by, like,

discussing reality TV as, as a guilty pleasure. But I do think, you know, as, and one of the things that I want to, you know, do with this podcast is enable people that do have that privilege to speak more openly about, you know, the artistic and cultural merit of these shows so that people's minds hopefully open to the validity of this programming and not be so dismissive of it. And yeah, that's all my thoughts on the term guilty pleasure. Did you guys have any final thoughts before we move on to Vanderpump Rules highlights? Maybe just in terms of like artistic merit of stuff like this, I think I only feel guilty if I'm engaging with art content, whatever, talkies. If I feel like I've wasted my time.

And I don't get that at all with Real Housewives or Vanderpumperals because there's quite a lot to chew on like in terms of editing and how they're like how they're shooting at technical stuff. And then in terms of how they how they're constructing these narratives and how that kind of can flow. between reality and, you know, produce their input or scripting of that. So it's a very, like, mentally engaging watch. You know, it doesn't feel as like TV candy to me. Yeah, I think it's obviously, like, very, like, stimulating, which doesn't necessarily make something, like, great art in itself. But I think, like, it is a medium that doesn't get the credit that it deserves,

because, like, there are roles within production that I think don't, like, don't really shine as much from a storytelling perspective in other forms of art, like, or other forms of, you know, like movies or, you know, your standard narrative television. I don't think you see the hands of a producer as strongly. I don't think you see the hands of an editor as strongly from a, like, like storytelling point of view. But with reality TV and like these Bravo shows specifically, you very clearly see it.

And like you see how much like nuance it takes and how like how, how skilled like of a craftsperson it takes in order to be effective with this type of canvas. Yeah, totally. I have so many questions about the technical process, by the way, or the production process when you get into that. Awesome. Well, yeah, let's get into it. Let's talk Vanderpump Rules. This was a great, fantastic episode in my opinion. Sean, do you want to give your sort of first impressions of the cast of Vanderpump Rules? Yeah. I did have to watch this twice to like really get a sense of everybody. I feel like James...

To separate your satchels from your Schwartz's? Yeah. I feel like does Satchel like say stuff in other episodes? He doesn't blink. So it's a bit of like nominative determinism. He's just a bag on a chair. He was just a big. introduce at the tail end of the last episode.

He still hasn't had a line in either of episodes. We still haven't heard his voice, I don't think. He's like a new boyfriend. Yeah, I'm not sure if we have. Okay. I don't think. I feel like James is possibly a genius. Yes.

Like I, Mark one up. James is a, he's a cartoon character, like, become flesh. And I don't know if, like, he's, like, he's a, just a genius for the medium or if some producer is brilliantly exploiting a clear personality disorder. I know I'm not

trying to be like ableist or anything here, but there's like there's something being pushed there. Yeah, there's somebody who really thinks James is a genius is James. And me. I think, you know what? I think he's

like excellent. He's like, you know, he's Jack's 2.0. Like, I think, like, Jacks from, Jacks from, like, Jacks from, like, early seasons of Vanderbump Rules, who was, like, the,

uh, self-described number one guy in the group. And he, um, he was like, you know, just a very, like,

awful person that was very, um, very interesting to watch on TV. But, like, James has these, like, like,

like, like, like, kind of, like pop through like he's he's way fun he's way funnier i haven't than 10 seasons uh he's he's way funnier than than jacks and i think like um i think with with jacks like he would lash out but he was very good at like um you know shielding the emotional vulnerability that was like causing that sort lash out. James is not as good at that and I think it kind of like it endears him to me a little bit.

Like you can kind of see the humanity underneath him. So like even though yes, he's like terrible and like toxic and abusive, that doesn't disqualify him from being likeable to me as a reality character. And I think he's like, I think he's super funny. His like, I think he's got really good, like one liners that come from a very, like, distinct voice.

Like, he's got a very distinct voice in confessionals. And when he, like, talks where, you know, if he, if he quips in the confessional booth,

it doesn't sound like it's fed to him from a producer. It just, like, is him fired up and, like, on a role and just like, I don't know, he's got kind of a natural

funniness. him that I really appreciate. It's kind of like the ideal reality TV subject. Yeah, I think so. He would, like, again, with the wrestling, he would have been such a good, like, cowardly heel if he had gone another path. And that's exactly what he is, at least in from what I've seen of this episode of Vanderpom. Yeah, I like James.

Well, I like James. I think he's very good on the show. Yeah. The two Tom's both seem, like, Sandville seems, they both seem like they both seem like they'd be a band that I would go see and hate and Sandoval would be the singer and told to be the drummer. Oh, my God. Well, have I got news for you? I mean, not the drummer part, but yeah.

You can go and check out. You can, Tom Sandoval is. Yeah. Tom Sandoval in the most extras. And it's like this like cover band, basically. And he had a band before that. What were they called the band that that did the Let's Touch and Paul? Oh, Charles Mick.

mansion. Right. With a guy who became like one of the Qadon leaders afterwards. Yeah. Wow. Okay. I'm going to be pulling that up on band camp later. Yeah.

I did find there's one thing about Schultz I find very relatable is after that intense moment that he has with Lala, it just cuts to him, like just him at the table with like two pounds of wings and two past dishes, like a brooch bun burger, and a Margarita pizza. He's just like sitting there eating wings. Angrily eating wings. His face is almost the same color as like the fluorescent wing he's eating. He's just, I've never seen Schwartz that rattled. He was like, he was so pissed off. Oh my God. It's really fun to try to piece together like just without any context while like where do all these conflicts come from. The best I can figure is that every possible at least heterosexual coupling in that group

has happened and everyone's just salty about it. Yeah, well, a lot of the permutations. And one thing that, like, I think makes it especially, um, especially interesting right now, how, like, uh, tumultuous it is, is the fact that, like, um, Tom Schwartz and Katie, they were together for like 12 years. And Tom Sandoval and Ariana were together for like nine or something like that. but yeah there has been a lot of you know spit swapping amongst them making out is like kind of the word of the season and yeah there's been at least that between a lot of the members of this group yeah plus james did literally spit on la la in one episode too so that kind of spit swatting as well my main question is what is like what is Lisa's role in this because in this episode anyway

it seems like it's like a mafia movie and she's like the Paul Sorvino type where the characters go to sort of sort their problems out and then she's only in like a scene and disappears I would say like it's mostly like exposition at this point in the past she held like she was the boss of the restaurant that they all worked at for like the first like five or six seasons. They were, you know, bartenders and waitresses and so. Yeah, exactly. That was the original concept. Yeah.

But so the idea behind the show was just following the drama of all the servers and bartenders, you know, hooking up and stuff like that. But they like just found this super magnetic cast like right out of the gate. And so they, every time they tried to, like, bring in the new service staff, the, um, they, uh, they just, like, kind of, like, faltered because everyone was still very engaged in the storylines of this original cast. So that's why, you know, season 10, we still have the, the OGs of Vanderpump rules. It's, it's probably got the most OGs of any Bravo franchise. Okay. Yeah. So there's like, what's the churn like on this kind of stuff?

Because like New Jersey, for example, I think I recognize like two or three people. Yeah. Okay. Well, guess who's an original cast member? For Vanderpump? I mean, well, if they do flash back so you see like baby, baby Sandoval. Yep. There's that. They flash back. I really love that scene. They flash back to like an argument he's having with, I guess, an ex. It's sassy. And she's talking about like, you know, you made out with her at the golden corral of all places. The golden nugget.

Yeah. The golden nugget. He just goes, I love the golden nugget. So good. That was the golden era right there. I love that flashback to Golden Era Vandapurrules because that, that like 10 second clip is better than entire seasons of TV shows. So it's just, I warn my heart to see that again. Bring her back.

We need Stassie back on the show. General Abnesty. I'm like, I'm going to become like one of those like return to tradition guys, but just bringing Stasi back on Andrew Pum rules. Just go on like, yeah, just go on like Facebook groups and post like pictures of Stassie with the caption like, wow, really weird how nobody had like anxiety or COVID when she was on TV. I get a marble statue of Stacey profile picture. Oh, thank you. Yeah, like, Sandoval's got to be original. I guess, like, probably Katie and Schultz, I would assume.

Schwartz, yeah. Schwartz, sorry. James, I hope, has been around a long time. So I think James arrived, like, season three. Okay. I think, yeah, season three. Yeah, the rest. It's like, well, actually, you know what?

I don't know why I know this, but he, He did appear as like in the background of a photo shoot that happens in like season one of Vanderpump rules. So not main cast, but technically he's been there. Is that him trying to get in? Yeah, I don't know. Those ones stand out to me just because there's flashbacks and there seems to be so much history. I don't know. I think Lala has been for a while.

Yeah. So I think James and Lala, our James came like season three and Lala came season four. But yeah, so this is like a very mature like core cast. Yeah, did you have like any highlights in terms of like scenes or anything that comes of mind that really stood out to you from this episode? Well, again, like I love Tom with his big table of food. I have a lot of like little things that stand out to me. I love that how careful James is making peanut butter and jelly sandwiches.

It was like multiple paper towels and just like really get into the corner of the bed. I'm just I'm wondering on the background like how much of this is, hey, we need some B roll. Can you make these sandwiches for a while while we get what we set up for shot, reverse shot or something? Yeah, it's a classic It's a classic thing to have like a discussion in an apartment and have somebody do something in the kitchen while they're talking just so yeah, you have that. You have B-roll. You have them active engage in something, whether they're mixing drinks or they're assembling a sandwich. But I also found it really hilarious that it's like PB and J's and he's like seems to be weirdly careful about it.

You have hangover breakfast. It's going to do P.BJs. Really getting in there. I love Beach Day. Oh, yeah. I really like, is it, who's the, I take it, he's Australian, like the beefcake, bray or something? Yeah, Brock. Brock, yeah.

Brock, yeah. Brock. Yeah, I really like, that seems like a little bit of, the editors kind of having fun with them there. Like when it cut, they changed the aspect ratio and the color grading when they start playing. And then it just cuts to like James taking the football right in the face. Love it. And that whole sequence stands out because I feel like,

I'd say James is really good at this. And his girlfriend, is it Ali? Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Also really quite good, or someone's telling her to be quite good at driving the drum. Like after he throws the drink at one of the Tom's and she walks off and comes back, I went back and watched that scene several times. To me, that's drama.

Yeah, I loved in that scene, the alliance that was immediately, like, struck between Charlie and Alley. Charlie just seems like such a great friend. And they had just met, but immediately, like, I don't know, they kind of bonded. And maybe it was because, like, they're in their 20s and, you know, everyone else is in their 40s or, approaching 40s, but yeah, still, I really enjoyed that they, like, were immediately kind of like

magnetic. And Charlie has this season, at least, been kind of the, the main ally of Raquel, maybe not the main ally, but she has been, like, very like team Raquel and, like, propping her up. So to

see her also, you know, strike up a friendship with James's current partner who, you know, James was previously engaged to Raquel. Right. Richella. Richella, yeah. It just like, I don't know, it really endeared me more to Charlie Ben. I already like, was like, like, she's a very likable reality TV character.

And I, like, that doesn't necessarily mean she's a very, like, good person. to be on reality TV. But she is, like, very likable. What I loved about that, though, is that Charlie was clearly, like, loving the drama and loving the fact that James threw a drink. And, like, you see her, her reaction right when it happens. Huge grin breaks over her face. And she does, like, a pearl clutching, like, gesture, like, grabbing at her throat.

Like, oh, yeah, here we go. And I love how when she, she realizes that Ali's, like, pissed off that James is, is acting. this way, she takes Ali's side and she's like forcing herself to be like, yeah, that was not cool. Well, also clearly being like, that was fucking awesome. The drink throw is just like such an iconic like Bravo move. So, you know, if you got to witness that in person, I would be so stoked. Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. Is there like a long history of Bravo drink throws? especially on Vanderpump Rules but yes there definitely is like on pretty much every franchise there have been drink throws that have driven various plots forward quite quite a bit but to see Tom Schwartz get it this is the first time he's actually been the recipient of it but in the first like two seasons of Vanderpump Rules he tossed a drink on Stasi and he also like poured a drink over Katie's head. So he was due. So it was nice to see

it like season 10. Another great reaction and the immediate aftermath of the drink thrower. Most people are just like, oh, how are we going to react? Is he just here a Lala say, this is so fun. That's great. Yeah, my other note on that is much like Satchel, do we know anything

about the dawn? So is that thing in the beat scene where Lala just goes, Let's go with the dawn. Yeah, let's go with the Don, using the The Dawn. And how awesome is it that the Don? Also, you're right. He's like Satchel.

He's just showed up as a romantic interest. He has had like lots of lines in the one other episode that he was in. Yeah. He showed up as like a really like, corny, sexy dude. Like just like making innuendos. And was just like he showed up as like the guy who, who like let that Lala got like break her streak with. Like she hadn't slept with somebody for a while.

But, you know, still hanging around, even though we don't get any lines of dialogue here, still thought it was a very strong presence for him to show up at the beach, not just wearing socks, but prominently wearing socks. The man is like 100% confidence. I love him. He's great. Okay. But like, okay, this raised more questions for me because originally I thought like, oh,

he's like the dawn. Like he's the godfather. But the way they were talking about him this. episode. It was like his name is actually Don. Like it's like the Don like like the Donald like that those subreddit for Donald Trump. Like what is this like an illusion to? I thought they've referenced him like as actually his name being Don like Donald. They did this this episode. I don't I don't remember it before. But yeah. No. I really hope it's just like a self-applied nickname.

It definitely is. It's just, you know, convenient. Just so like unimaginative, like, you know, we've got the Craig, the Dylan, and the Sean here. The Sean. Yeah, it's got to ring to it.

Let's go with the Sean. I would like that to be my Chiron. Just have yours be the Sean. And mine will be. A. Dillon. Sean, did you have any other updates or any other highlights? Yeah, I mean, mostly questions. Yeah, I feel like the beach seeing into the restaurant is really the meat of it for me.

But yeah, I'm just like very curious about like Ariana and Katie's sandwich empire. that they're starting. My first thing, as soon as they go in there and they're like, you know, envisioning the decor, have they done anything food-wise yet or are they just doing decor? Because this feels very much like... Yeah, they don't have like an established menu yet. They know that like sandwiches is the thing and they've got some way of like branding the sandwiches.

But we got in the preview for the next episode that Katie's going to be going to Lisa Vanderpump's house to work on the sandwiches for some reason. She's doing it there. And that's where, that's where, like, Ken toddles out and drops the, the bombshell. Yeah.

Which, very salacious. What's Ken's deal? Is he, like, just old? Okay, so Lisa Vanderpump used to have a dog named Jiggy. I remember that from Beverly Hills, because I remember Ken's saying, something along the lines of they love his beautiful clothes

and his beautiful face or something like that. Yeah. So when Jiggy was dying, they swapped brains between Jiggy and Ken. And so Ken has Jiggy's brain now. Yeah, but I definitely got vibes in that scene of like, oh, these are like vision restaurateurs.

and not like, you know, like owner-operator chef style. Yeah. So I think that, yes, that's true, like, in relation to other people within the restaurant industry. But in relation to their partners, our former partners, Sandval and Schwartz, they are definitely, like, in the trenches, like, serious business owners relative to what these guys are doing, like, Goof and. around with it. Yeah, sometimes Lisa shows up to a workside with a pink hard hat on. So she means business. There's a lot of allusions to Sandoval and Schwartz being like failures of some kind. They've opened a bar. What does James say? The corner of Silver Lake. I didn't make a note of what he said. Oh, yeah. I can't remember what his line was. Like some silver like Poo Village or something like that. Yeah. Which it isn't either. It's in like old Hollywood. I don't know what.

Yeah, so I get the sense that they, like, are running something into the ground. Well, they have been, like, struggling to get this place open. So they've got a bar called TomTom, which is open. And they are, like, like, super minority partners in the restaurant. And, like, Ken and Lisa and their, like, business team handle most of it. And then so they wanted to, like, kind of break out from under Lisa Vanderpump. start their own thing where they're majority owners and that's sandy and schwartz's or Schwartz and Sandys and that's what they have been struggling to get up and running so it's in this like a strip mall

which from what I gather everything in L.A. is a strip mall. Yeah and so they have been they've had this like lease that they've been paying into while they've been trying to get off the ground and delay after delay is is causing it to just not open. Where does their money come from? Oh, they're TV stars. Yeah. It's like a new ride at like Bravo Disney. I would go to a Bravo theme park.

I'll actually on that note. Did you have any other questions about the show that you had written down? I mean, I'm mostly very curious about production. Like, is this single camera, first of all? No. For sure, there's multiple cameras. And then just like how, like, it feels very much to me, like, there's something just outside of frame that's pushing things, like,

pushing situations into happening. So, like, if you look at, for example in the restaurant scene where at one point James is clearly loud-miked because he's talking to Katie and then later when it cuts he's not miced up anymore because they know maybe they know they don't need him or something

you could just kind of pick him up in like chatter so how will like what's the how does a production work on an episode are they like saying okay now it's time for Katie and Schwartz

to have an argument. So let's mic them up and get them in a room. I'm like, remind them like, Yeah. So they, they will like, um, they won't go that far.

Like if there's an event happening, they will let it play out. And, you know, it's your responsibility as someone who wants to stay on the cast to be able to kind of know what to do with probably some coaching from like, uh, an associate producer beforehand.

Because each of them will have like an associate producer or someone that is like who functions as kind of like their handler for, you know, the duration of the season. But it's kind of your job to, you know, gather the information that you can and use it in a way that, you know, makes for effective television and to, you know, manage your own position within the social hierarchy that you're oscillating in, which is basically just all these shows are. You're jockeying positions and, you know, oscillating from like good guy to bad guy and and back again.

It's almost more like, but hyper-real TV. Yeah, I mean, reality is definitely like a misnomer. Like it's, it's in this case, at least in the case of Bravo shows, it is not necessarily an accurate description of, you know, this uninterrupted reality. But like, I mean, it's not a documentary, but it is this like real narrative. And the people that are like on the cast and engaging in this, they do like there are actual like real stakes. So it does have that that's grounded in reality. Like Tom Sandoval is probably, well, maybe not. But he's like potentially taking a hit in business to his restaurants because his reputation is in the tank because of the Scandival that has happened.

So there are. I was familiar with Scandival. But yeah, there are like actual stakes. And these people are mindful about, you know, actual real world consequences of their action. So in that sense, it differs from, you know, a fictional narrative construct. But there's obviously like clear influences from production. Yeah. But I think the fact that there are like, yeah, I think the fact that there are still like real world consequences to your business, your reputation.

your job on the show. Your relationships too. Yeah, your relationships, like that all factors in. Yeah, because there's that scene with like Lala and Katie, I think, where they're even talking about maybe it's area. No, Raquel's reputation online and they're showing like Twitter or Instagram screenshots. But like how those real consequences come out. Yeah, it just feels to be.

me like you're like real people and real interpersonal dramas that get a little bit tweaked up and like found in the edit maybe yeah yeah for sure there's a lot of like finding it in the edit and like like stringing together bits and pieces in order to like weave a story together and if something comes out later this season trying to like dive into the footage and pull out things that you can use to sort of build the backstory for this um I think that's where you really see the artistic merit of a producer or a editor really shine in a way that you don't see in other more traditional narrative

narratives. But you mentioned that you were not familiar with the term Scandival. So I want to kind of get into that because that has been the big bombshell that has been the big bombshell that has blown up the the bravo sphere this this year um so uh did you do any sort of research into vanderpump rules this season before diving into the episode i wanted to go in totally cold so i've only seen episode 12 okay so this episode we're starting to get the the hints of like what is going to what what eventually blew up um

Um, so after like season four of this season had aired, it came to light that Tom Sandoval had actually been sleeping with Raquel for like, um, like eight months or something like that. Um, and Ariana found out and everything just like blew up kind of off camera. So they rushed production or apparently they rushed production back in to, you know, capture the, the fallout of this all. blowing up. And that's kind of the, that's what has been labeled like Scandival because Tom, Sandoval and Arian had been together for like eight or nine years at that point. Yeah. And they really plant the seeds like all through this episode. Because even when the Tom's are going to the food truck, which by the way,

they are delightfully corny to that food truck employee. We're first timers. We're excited. because even in that, right, drummer Tom, I keep on it called Schultz Schwartz, is saying, like, oh, you know, like, I don't know, I just feel like Raquel's got a crush on someone else. Oh, that was my other stand-up, by the way, in that scene when Sandoval's talking about, they're having, like, the most, and it depresses me then there are 40s, because I wasn't called the most, like, 19-year-old guy conversation with it.

Like, I really love her, and I want to show her. to every day. I give her this, I don't remember exactly what he says, is some kind of latte. I give her a latte every day. I think it's a dumpling latte. Yeah, I think it's a dumpling latte every morning. Does she reciprocate? No. I love that moment too, because it's like, you know, whenever a couple of squabling, it's always, both people always feel like they're giving more than they're getting. That's like, I think that the root always of it. But the fact that the only example he can pull is, is I make her a latte in the morning, often. like you're making a really weak case. But of course, Schwartz is, you know, you got to be the good buddy. It's got to be like, wow, and does she reciprocate Tom? Have you thought about it?

Like, well, that's the thing. The one, like, most sustainable long-term relationship on the show is between the two Tom's. And it's not entirely wholesome because a lot, like, a lot of dudes relationships, it's mostly founded on, like, justifying each other's worst, most toxic behaviors. But in this episode, you really see how, like, that's kind of the one relationship that that really does have a real substance in the show, both in like Schwartz really playing ball to, like, let South Sandoval feel like, you know, you're seeing, your struggles in your relationship are seen with the dumpling latte thing.

Man, that's rough. When he goes with him for his juice results, like that's... Exactly. And the way he jumps in the call to talk to Ariad to kind of, like, be like, but you know what? It's actually great, too. The morphology is not a big. deal. You know, he can wear those tight jeans.

Yeah. And then later on, you see Sandoval, like, when he's confronting Katie, which he, he's been doing a lot of. And he kind of, like, gets down to the fact, like, you know what? The way that Tom Schwartz talks about you and the way you talk about him, like, it's like not on equal terms. And he's like, gets kind of emotional about that too. And then that's, you know, another example of Sandoval being there like, you know, I got

my bros back too at the same time. So they've got that one like, like internally healthy relationship in the sense that they sustain each other. The results are often just, like, promoting what shitty people they are, as everybody on the show is. A good foundation on a bridge to a bad neighborhood. Yeah. Yeah.

That's really interesting that you kind of, like, bring up that relationship as, you know, being so stable on, on this show because, like, I can't think of any other dynamic between, you know, that kind of, like, toxic. codependent, like prop each other up and enable each other's, like, toxic traits that, um, you see on, you know, that's, that's something that, you know, as just a dude, I, you know, I've seen that. Sure. Like, you let, you know, I think everyone has seen that and like kind of been in something

that resembles that kind of dynamic, you know, maybe not to the extent that, the Tom's do but um you know just like that dynamic as like a straight guy that friendship i like i immediately recognize that and that's not something that you really see highlighted to the degree that um you don't see that anywhere else on on bravo at least um maybe to an extent sometimes on southern charm though not so much but um i don't I don't get that sense from New Jersey, certainly. Yeah. Oh, I can't wait to get into this episode in New Jersey, but I think, like, New Jersey is a little bit different.

I think, like, one of the things that I like about, you know, about reading satire or science fiction is the way that they take, like, real world issues or, like, problems or dynamic. or whatever and just like crank the dial up in order to explore it, you know, very like plainly. And I think that the relationship between Tom Sandoval and Tom Schwartz is an example of like reality TV doing that. Because like I haven't been in like a dude friendship that has been that level of, you know, feeding into the toxicity, but, you know, I do recognize traits of that. So, yeah, I really like that you bring that up because I think that, you know, that kind of highlights how reality TV can function in the same way that, like, really good satire can and really good science fiction can. Yeah. What's like to bring it back to Dylan's Freudian analysis, it's just two straight guys.

is really engaging in the id. Upholding each other's it. Yeah. Grabbing each other by the it. Awesome. Well, Dylan, what were your highlights from this episode? I liked when Allie says, like, you know, it's really hard for me to adjust to this group. Because in my friend group, if you break up with somebody, you never see them and never talk to them again.

And I'm like, Ali, that's because your friend group is high school. Like, how old are you? Seriously. She's hanging out with a bunch of 40-year-old. And she's like, well, in my experience, what's your experience? Come on. Like, you're not talking about some people who called themselves twin flames because they gave each other hand jobs for a month after gym class.

You're talking about people who've been married for the better part of a decade. You can try to make new friends in your 30s and 40s. Yeah, exactly. that's why they're all hanging out together because they're 40, they don't know how to make new friends. They can only know how to lose them. But yeah, the whole thing, like you said,

Sean, starting at the beach and leading to all those concentrations in the restaurants was amazing. It was everybody got so raw too. Like, it was like, people were getting really like their emotions were surface level. Really, I don't know what's going on. It must be the Santa Ana Wind or something.

Yeah, no, it's the sun. L.A. was in a heat wave. There you go. There you go. See? It's those ions in the air. That's what that is. But I did like, as much as, you know, to circle back to James briefly, briefly this. I don't like. I did to get a really funny episode. He was a really funny guy. Just before you get into it, let's keep in mind that his first house was in Sagittarius or Venus was in Sagittarius.

So give him a little bit of a. ass on this episode. Does that mean Pluto is going to go into his Uranus? Yeah. But I just feel like even if you're comparing it to Jacks, Jackson is a piece of shit, but I thought Jacks has a little bit more like reflection and enough of depth. What? Yes. I think I think that Jacks was like actually thinking about his life a little bit where I think James doesn't have that capability. I think he's just like two bitty eyes and a flappy mouth. No. I will bet you James is very much an in the moment type of person who like maybe his life doesn't see real thing.

He has been planning for years and years to get to a point where he's opening for Cascade. He's opening for Cascade. I did like how like how rawly emotional he was of that insult, which by the way was was a good insult my top shorts it was a good lot but yeah the comfortation between them was just really funny and i just like how you get a little preview of it when like brook is throwing them the ball on the beach when they do the little top gun bit and they're both like just fucking terrible at it and then uh then they'll transition to this like you know clash of the weaners who were just like and just the way like schwartz can't respond to the drink being thrown in his face beyond

being like the standard. Like, well, if you were to do it again, it'd be different. I'd put you at a headlock. Yeah. If you put me a headlock, I'd be out of it in two seconds. You're not stronger, faster than me. So great.

And then James, uh, James fucking getting strongly high and panicking and running out and falling. And they'd be like, oh, no, it was like a hundred, 50 proof alcohol and the waitress is like, I think that's water. Yes. It's so amazing. And James just being like, you know, he was starting in a strong position there, but he's such a baby too. The way that he like starts calling for Lorla to come like save him and be like, La La La, back me up here.

And then she comes in. It's like, yeah, so I think what she did was weirdly out of line, but did you say bot? Ah, she said, but. You know, you don't have my back. I don't understand how you can give such like this glowing endorsement of James and still like maintain your position of not liking him. A lot of it has to do with the accent. It is insufferable. He's just an insufferable man.

He's just very grating. But he was hilarious his episode. So I will give him that. That was actually a very, very, very funny showing from him. I really enjoyed how James. like basically set la la up for like a layup when he was like it's like

oh their ego's as big as my cock and she's like oh yeah so so really small and he's like yeah right and it seemed like genuinely like cut by it yeah she's like served up to it like he did pay back for more right repeat comfort

okay I also love the awkwardness in that scene of it's clearly like daytime and James orders a cocktail and Lala's just like sparkling water. Yeah. This whole show runs on a lot of alcohol. Yeah. Well, I think James has been like claiming that he's quitting drinking since the year appeared on

the show. He says it. And Lala actually has quit drinking. Oh, I'm never drinking again. He says that every episode. Has there like drinking water out of like an old vinegar bottle in a bag? A gallon of water like, like, buy a bottle. your bed, you're not quite drinking.

You have a routine now. But yeah, I think that that covers enough for me, but tons of great stuff. Great episode. Lots of fun. Awesome. Well, let's, let's dive into the Real Housewives of New Jersey. Sean, how is your, like, dipping your toe into Real Housewives again? What was that like for you?

It was magical. I loved it. it took me a bit like I didn't realize that I knew like Teresa and Melissa Intel probably halfway through the first time I watched the episode. Oh yeah. And then it clicked like, oh yeah, Joe Judas or whatever. And the thing about her going to jail, I think jog my memory. She's an icon.

Like I feel like Teresa is if you say real housewives, like she's got to be in the top three. games that you think of. Yeah, she's kind of like a, like a Dwayne Johnson, like maybe with beyond the Bravo a little bit. Yeah. Question on that. What is the reference to that one part of the mural, where they call it an iconic moment? And just like, that I wasn't familiar with. Yeah.

So season one of Real Housewives in New Jersey, like she like flipped up a table in the finale episode. And so like you might. see like some memes of her like flipping a table over it's a pretty like iconic image um yeah kind of a strange choice for jen but also it is like a very iconic moment so you know it did elevate her to be like that that that's what like started her shooting star on the trajectory that it's it's been on and then i don't know if i have the name is it melissa is like her sister-in-law or something yeah So does that mean that Stoned Joe Gorga is

Teresa's brother? Yes. Yeah. If I can go into that scene of the dudes, it's like eight guys named Joe. Yeah. And they're all wearing like fresh white teas. It's like a nice examination of my own prejudice.

Because they're starting that scene and I was like, this is a room full of men that would make me severely uncomfortable to be in. But then they all get. super baked and are just eating like fried food out of to go containers and joe is like playing with that really like mussely guy's arm vein yeah yeah so so wholesome and even i think the last line they cut on that little scene is like joe jorga saying but the girls aren't having this much fun and like he couldn't be more right like it's just so perfect and even in that like you could tell because there's something going on with Danielle and

and someone else, right, like, called someone a rat. And they're, like, they, they kind of start that drama with the husbands. I guess, like, Daniel's husband and someone else, like, oh, your wife called my wife a rat. But they're just all way too baked to do anything. So it seems like it just withers on the vine. I think, yeah, that's, that's really interesting that you bring that up. Like, the husband's kind of trying to start that up because, like, the husband's dynamic is something. that doesn't exist on other real housewife shows.

So and both Danielle and Rachel are like brand new housewives to this series. And like these house husbands have been on the show for a long time. And the fact that, you know, uh, no one else in the group like bites on it and just like lets it drop. They, they do a really good job. I think of kind of like taking the lead from, from the other guys in the group. It's like, no, that's not what we need to do here. We need to just like get baked, get like super pumped about this food truck that has shown up, which is like awesome, by the way. I would love that.

Why did they need to go containers if it was parked on their property? Yeah, I was wondering about that too. You don't want to go inside the house because it's the worst house to be high in. You see the leopards come to life. We need ice snakes. Yeah, I loved the husband scene. I'm a huge fan of Irish Peter and how he's just like carrying a drill around

for most of the time. Oh, yeah. When he goes to meet them, he's like pointing a power drill at them. And it's just sort of there. There's one little bit in that farm. Also, I did not know they were, in Ireland until like nine minutes into the episode when they actually mentioned it. I was like, oh, it's like St. Patrick's Day.

And they're just all like partying. There's this one little bit that I think is like clever editing where it's just audio over B-roll. One of the housewives is like, oh, how old's the farm? And Peter's like, oh, the farm's 200 years old. And then it cuts to one of the housewives that could be totally later being like, we're loving the culture. I mean, most of the things I've written down are just like snippets of audio. I love Margaret's outfit for the whiskey tasting.

I thought that was fabulous. They're like a tool skirt and like diaphanous blouse. And the hair clip that says feelings. Speaking of outfits, I feel like we need. to mention the Jen Fessler's outfit at the start of this episode, which was like,

kind of the focus of the tail end of the last episode. I was watching the tail end of the last episode when I was like, I was sitting in the Minneapolis airport, uh, waiting for a flight and like, the way that they were like focusing on everyone,

like taking like cell phone photos of her boobs and like her cleavage. like very uncomfortable for me. Like, just me like, it's not what it looks like. This is real housewives. That was a guilty pleasure. Not a perv.

Not a perv. My favorite outfit of the episode is when you pull out your notebook and be like, yeah. It's really sketching. My favorite outfit, sorry, what's her name, Jen?

Fessler. Yeah. Fessler. Yeah, because her was just like Margaret's friend. My favorite outfit is when they're going to jump in the bog. I have a screen grab that I took of it I'll send you later

but it's just like I think it cuts to her going like oh my god but she's wearing like she's got some kind of I don't know if it's a shirt she's like made into a headscarf or a big bonnet thing and just like yoga wear but that's my favorite outfit of hers it's a frame that lasts for like

it's a few frames or it's a few seconds but it's just like choice I also feel like she is trying to get on the show because she is like really going for lines. Yeah, she's a bit tryhard. You missed last week

when she dropped some info. She slept with James Gandalfini. So she's got that going for her. Before he died? She didn't specify. Presumably. Yeah, the one that got away. I think she actually says that at one point.

Yeah. She probably shouldn't have traumatized this. cock so much. Yeah, I feel like she was, again, it's probably all like alcohol-related, but she's really, like, trying to get her camera moments. Like when they're in the whiskey tasting thing and the dinner, she keeps leaning over to, is it the other gen, maybe? I really like what we've going on.

Just like always has something to add. Yeah, right. The gins were seated together. Yeah. Yeah, she's got real stand-up comedian vibes. She's a Yes. She almost,

I mean, she's like the Jewish one too. That's kind of part of her thing. She almost has like a prop cigar sometimes when she's talking like, yeah, well, the thing about that is, yeah,

yeah, just really like, like cat skills club comic. Just wearing like a shabby suit of tails shuffling around. Oh yeah, the other, the one other like line that is just repeating in my head is again from the mural scene.

Melissa Paints. It's like that wonderful red-bordered Italian flag and the stick figure family. And she's like getting emotional, but she just, the line that sticks out to me is, it's just so sad to me that this is a family. And that's the whole lot. And I don't know what that means. That's what's so great about like these Italians with their strong, but very delicate family roots. You can, anybody can just say the word family in this group and at least three women will spontaneously. start crying.

Danielle has that whole thing. I don't know what. Something is going on with her brother. Yeah. If these women went to see like a Fast and the Furious movie, they would just be like dissolved into a puddle of tears on the ground. Yeah. Oh yeah.

I want to see a reality show about Irish Peter's life outside of work. Because like I get it. So I spend a lot of. my life working in like service industry and often serving um excited groups of like housewives types who are maybe doing a hen party or whatever and the vibe i get from peter is like um like if i had to work in the canadian themed restaurant from gremlins too i would i would probably have like a kind of a bleak life outside of that and i just really want to see what peter's life is like i want to I mean, yeah, it's not fun to have to fill up the fish right at their table.

Love that line of that movie. But also a very pro move from Peter to bring out a puppy when he sees somebody sad. He's just got that way to go. It's kind of like his back pocket. Just like somebody's crying. This makes them feel better. People like puppies. And he's right.

It worked. Oh, yeah, of course. How was it not going to work? I mean, this should be obviously. I have to ask, though. What did Teresa go to jail for? It was tax fraud. So apparently it was like Joe Judas's fault.

He was filing false returns or something like that. But yeah, she spent 11 months in prison. Another Joe for you. Yeah. So, I mean, I was obviously jumping to. Juicy Joe. A juicy one. I was like hoping it was going to be kind of a mobbed up thing but

Yeah it's like I she was the first housewife to go to the tax to jail but I like it's not as not as like hard as Jenshaw who is now the second housewife to go to jail who is in jail also for fraud but she was like defrauding seniors on those like phone scams. She, you know, those calls that you get. Yeah. So she ran like a pyramid. She was the head honcho of that. And yeah, now she's in jail. Apparently putting on a play called Real Housewives of Brian. And Brian is the facility that she's in.

So hoping that we get to see clips of that somehow. Yeah. Yeah. Well, because like smuggled cell phone footage of that. Bravo's got to own the rights to that, right? Yeah. I only put on. Dylan, what about you?

What were your highlights? I loved Jen Aiden in this episode. I thought she was amazing. I thought it was great, great episode for her. I need to return to the mural drawing because it was like my favorite part of the episode. I loved how they show her after she drew this sketch of Angry Teresa,

like kind of like admiring her work. And she kind of like gets. the character and does a sign kind of feeling the emotion and they're just like very like self-satisfied and confidently nodding and be like yes the energy is there she put hers on like a different part of the wall so like it stands on its own yeah yeah and remains totally proud of it even though everybody else is like you misread the assignment yet and it's not what was supposed to be doing It's just like It cannot be knocked off her Her pedestal there

She's just so proud of her work And she has right to be It was a beautiful beautiful drug It was interesting because like Out of almost anyone else in the cast That probably would have set Teresa off Like it would have been seen as you know A dig and like she was even crying

Before they started painting the boat You know these girls might draw like prison bars and like use this as an opportunity to roast me. And I like I think, you know, that was kind of whether intentional or not, a smart move by Teresa to, you know, shut down the opportunity for anyone to really, you know, use it to take a swipe better. And I guess like Jen doing that was, you know, maybe good. She knew that like she's in good enough with, with Teresa.

So, like, she could do something like this. It's kind of a risky move. Lifehearted. Yeah. Just because she's trying to court, like Teresa's friendship. And like you said, after Teresa's like, please don't draw bars. Only have to be. Yeah.

She's just all going for it. And I just think because she's a true artist. Her art trumps her strategy. Yeah. And I also love how Teresa seems to be making a conscious effort not to look at it. But she's like, don't really care for that one. keeping her head turned away. And also when

Jen just gets like keeling over drunk during the whiskey tasting. She's just adorable. She's just very cute this episode. But also like that's what I would do too in a whiskey tasting. Like what's good? The guy there. I do like the trope of having like an expert come in and like show the housewife stuff.

Sometimes they kind of get into character. And they'd be like, oh, it's showtime. I'm on TV. Like, let's crack some jokes. Ladies, am I right? And this guy just seemed like impatient with them. Just like, he couldn't get out of their fast enough. Oh, yeah.

He was just like, I'm done with these fucking Americans. I don't want to do this. Ginger plate, cilantro, gone. Yeah. But also, like, why are you pouring out like, like, eight ounces of whiskey per person? whatever, and then just being like, take a little sip off the top and throw the rest of glass. What's the deal with that?

I get that it's like the sideways thing where it's like you're supposed to just slosh it around in your mouth and spit it out. You know, the rest of the glasses for show or whatever. But that's probably like very expensive whisticky, I assume. That's the point of the testing, tasting, right? So it's like high quality stuff. Why even pour out that much if you're just... Alluding to a Paul Giamati movie is a very serious thing in Italian family.

So be careful. Oh, shit. That's done. they're going to read that as a swear. Fuck. Margaret will come for me on that one. But yeah, all to say that,

like, I would absolutely finish those shots, even if I didn't want to, even if I didn't want to be drunk, I would be like, I'm not wasting this. I'm drinking it. And was just,

was just having a good time. That was a lot of fun. Oh, and I loved when she was drunk and Danielle starts talking. And she's worried that Daniel's going to give out her secret before she has the chance to use it strategically. And well, like, you could just see her like kind of peering through the fog of drunkenness

being like, oh, oh, God, do I have to do something to stop this? Oh, fuck. What is, like, what's going on with Danielle and I think it's Margaret? Yeah, so. Something there at the end, right? Yeah, so mostly the beef, the main beef is between like, Jan and Margaret. Margaret is very concerned because Jan has talked to one of Margaret's, like, former friends

and is, I guess, kind of building up an arsenal of her own. But she knows that Margaret has, like, told this friend of hers that Melissa Gorga was apparently seen getting out of the back of a limo and are making out with some other guy. And so this is this like little piece of like bombshell information that just Margaret had. But now Jen has the information that Margaret has like disseminated this to to someone else. So that's where the tension is. But on this trip last episode or the episode prior, Jen let Danielle know this information. So that's why she was worried that it was going to come out.

and she'd have to like, you know, be, like, activated when she was, like, way too drunk to handle that sort of thing. Yeah, it's like the bomb waiting to go off in this season, I think. Is that piece of information. Yeah, so it feels like they sort of constructed around one or two, like, really big deal conflicts that just build up to. Like a season, you mean? Yeah. It kind of depends. Yeah, I mean, ideally there's something that is going to kind of grab the attention outside of the fandom in a way that Scandival has.

But I'd say that that's like exceedingly rare that that would happen. Usually there is like, yeah, one or two kind of like major within the scope of the show conflicts or, or, um, just storylines that kind of drive the action through the series. And then like a lot. It's probably a big thrust. Yeah. So yeah. So that's like in general if a housewife is getting married or like a like someone on the

cast is getting married that will be used as kind of a vehicle for a lot of the conflict. And to an extent it is happening on this season. that's mostly just because Melissa Gorga is always kind of grasping at Teresa for storylines so she is using being left out of the wedding party as you know the major slight against her and Joe that's kind of driving things that explains the close up when Teresa says something about wanting people to be in the wedding cut to Melissa how she implies she's inviting her to the wedding be like I just feel

like I want you guys to somehow be involved in the wedding. Like, aren't you inviting church to the wedding? Well, no, but I want peace. That's so funny. Siri would be nice. Well, they are invited. They're just not in the wedding party. Yeah, not part of it.

The great thing. Yeah. And you could almost feel like Melissa's nervousness at like, you know, Teresa. having this like very like emotional moment and platform and like this is the perfect opportunity if she wants to invite Melissa like this would only go over well for Teresa to like extend that all of brand and this is like the perfect end to that story and Teresa could use that as an out she doesn't need to but she could you could almost feel like Melissa being nervous like okay well like what else am I going to bring to the table?

Yeah, Melissa doesn't want that. Melissa doesn't want that. Yeah, no. Melissa and Joe definitely do not want that. Yeah. That's their leverage. Yeah, they're entrenched in dragging this out as a conflict. So yeah, that would, you're right.

Melissa would almost be panicked if Teresa was like, I want you with her wedding party because that's not what she loved. Yeah, in a situation where she can't really say no. Like, she's kind of like, you know, it's like, okay. She has like, she's kind of like built. this, you know, sub-story where it's like, oh, okay, I recognize the value of family. We're in, like, a good place. There's a point earlier in the episode where, you know, Tracy even acknowledges the fact that, like, Melissa was really good with her parents.

Like, she's like, oh, yeah, they were all, always, she was always really good. So I feel like Melissa was kind of like in an under or a position where she, like, She basically couldn't say no and still hold any sort of leverage. So the fact that, you know, Teresa was like, well, no, I'm not actually asking you to be in the wedding. Like, I don't know whether that's like Teresa being like a savvy housewife and being like, we still need conflict or if that is her just being like, no, I legitimately like don't actually want you guys in the wedding. but either way I think like for a viewer that is

you know the outcome that we you know could hope for for an interesting season yeah so like Teresa and Melissa have had something for a long time I take it yeah since since the beginning I think like Melissa joined the cast like season three of New Jersey

so she's been on there for 10 years at this point now but it's always like at the root of it been a conflict between like families. That's kind of the core of what New Jersey is. And it's interesting, like, I don't think there's any other franchise that has the same sort of, like, I might have mentioned this on the last episode, but like the fans really like draw battle lines, whether you're like one of Melissa's fans or if you're on Teresa's side and you're like a tree hugger as Teresa fans call. But like, I don't think that there's any other housewives where people will, like, align themselves with and entrench themselves with, like, that camp more than New Jersey.

And, like, New Jersey is, like, a popular housewife franchise, but, like, it is not the most popular franchise. It's, like, you know, it's in the upper half of popularity, but, like, none of the other very popular real housewife franchises have that sort of, like, allegiance. so it's really interesting to see that dynamic, you know, come off of the screen and play out within the fandom. Dylan, did you have any other highlights from this episode? No, that about covers the main bits. Awesome. I think we talked about pretty much everything that I was hoping to talk about on this episode as well. Awesome.

Well, I was very soaked to have you on here, Sean. to let everyone know where they can find you and follow you? I'm Sean's haircut. My Instagram's private. I probably want to prove you. But you can follow me a letterbox if you want one sentence joke reviews of the movies I watch. As a plug, if you feel safe and comfortable doing it,

go see live music and comedy and movies in independent theaters. I don't produce anything myself. Awesome. Or remove one plug from next week's guest. Yeah. Awesome. Dylan, how put yourself? As usually, you can find back episodes of my horror movie podcast,

Mind Over Splatter, and I write about movies on Substack. Awesome. I'm Craig Midwinter. This has been Bravo Outsider. You can find us online at bravo outsider.com. We're on Instagram at Bravo Outsider on TikTok, at Bravo Outsider and on YouTube. you can find us wherever you listen to your podcast. Until next week, keep on Wifee.

Keep on Wifee. Thank you.