Oscars Outsider - Code Red Wasted (RHONY S14E12, RHOC S17E16, RHOSLC S04E04)

Episode Date: October 3, 2023

In this thrilling episode of Bravo Outsider, our hosts, Craig Midwinter and Dylan Ferguson, embark on an exciting journey into the heart of our favorite Housewives episodes. The adventure kicks off with a deep dive into the dramatic world of the New York Housewives, immersing ourselves in the tumultuous confrontations and intriguing alliances that define Jessel's season. Moving on, we shift our focus to the complex dynamic in Jenna Lyons and Brynn Whitfield's night out and the cringe-inducing attempts of Erin Lichy to present herself as chill. But that's just the beginning! As the episode unfolds, our intrepid duo delves into the high-octane season finale of Orange County. We explore the calculated maneuvers of strategic villain Tamra Judge. We talk about Gina Kirschenheiter's epic circus party. We ask ourselves why Shannon Beador's boyfriend John is the worst, and of course talk about Taylor Armstrong getting Code Red Wasted Bringing this thrilling episode to a close, we conduct a thorough analysis of the intense Salt Lake City Housewives episode. We dissect Whitney Rose taking control over Meredith Marks' trip. We muse over whether Lisa Barlow is displaying affluence or insecurity, and ponder Mary Cosby's enigmatic cult leadership. We leave no stone unturned in exploring every twist and turn. Find Dylan on substack at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://dylanferguson.substack.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠ Find "The Devil You Don't" on Youtube: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tBassBNwKc&list=PLCGSy4_xHhBsbX0VlG3JDJwaiqsBkiGDj⁠⁠⁠ https://www.bravooutsider.com Music by FASSounds from Pixabay #rhoslc #rhony #rhoc #realitytv #trixiemattel #rhoa #rhop #rhom #rhod #rhobh #vanderpumprules #scandoval #pumprules

Welcome to Bravo Outsider. I'm your host, Craig Midwinter, joining me as usual. Dylan Ferguson, Dylan, how's it going? Going good. As you can see, I've got a curated color scheme here. Whoa. It's October. I'm springing into fall. Very nice. Yeah, I'm loving it. We are flying tandem this week. Just the two of us. we'll be back with an outsider next week, but we want to get into recapping three excellent episodes of Housewives.

We had New York, Salt Lake City and Orange County. Dylan, where would you like to start with this? Oh, I don't know. I feel like we usually go through chronologically with the ones that started earliest. But why don't we mix it up this week? Since me and you are just having a little staycation together, Jessel and Prima.

Why don't we start with New York? this time. Okay, yeah, I'm down for that. What did you like about New York? Jessel is really getting cooked this season, this show, really. Jessel's just getting, getting her ass cooked so bad. I'm kind of enjoying it, but I feel bad for her. Like, sometimes I put myself in the position of somebody watching the show and be like, like, being like, time to binge and find out how it turned out. And that must not be great for Jessel, who's like storylines have gone from like you don't fuck your husband to you know you're privileged, you're boring, you're annoying to you don't fuck your husband because he's going to Vietnam

to feed it for sex tourism. Like she is getting cooked by the show so hard. Yeah, I really hope that she comes back because I really like her. and I think she's turning into a little bit of a fan favorite too. But yeah, she's definitely like getting the brunt of it and seems to be rolling with the punches. I, um, one of my, my highlights from this was the scene that we got between Sai and, um, Cy and Jessel at the end where, you know, sigh arrives 20 minutes late and is immediately annoyed that Jessel isn't there.

And she, like, arrives 20 minutes after. Later, yeah. Yeah. And Cy is, like, so pissed off. But when Jessel, first off, I think that the apology that she meant came across very, like, heartfelt and, like, it was thoughtful. And Cy just immediately dismisses it with, you know, I don't care, like, whatever. I do think that, Cy's right, that Jessel made a blunder where she's like, you know, I did not intend. to draw any comparisons to your life.

And also, my uncle was an alcoholic, so that's one thing we haven't gotten. You know, she immediately starts directly comparing her life to Sy's life right after she said that's not what she intended to do. So I think Si's got a point to be like a little peeved about that. I think it was like messy but not malicious. I don't know. For me, it seems like the issue with Jessel and Cy

is like, Sai is playing the game and Jessel isn't. Like, Jessel is, I've said this before on the podcast. She reminds me of like Shannon, who's just like really navigating in a very authentic, true to herself way,

not thinking about the meta and being kind of messy as a result of it. And I feel like, you know, Jessel is putting out this story about her uncle being an alcoholic in an effort to connect. Like her motivation is, to connect. Whereas, like, Sai sharing her story with her mother, Sai is using it as, like, social currency. She's using, like, her opening up as, like,

a play. And so the fact that Jessel is putting her story out there and putting it on equal, like, equal grounds and, like, trying to use it as, like, a measure to balance things, Sia is like piss off because she doesn't think that Jessel's story is as valuable as hers. She doesn't think that it holds the same value. So it shouldn't be, it shouldn't get, be given equal weight. And I think that's what she's really pissed off is that she thinks that Jessel's going to be scoring more points with her story. Yeah, I think that's more or less right.

I think Saya is also extremely defensive of the kind of felt reality. of her upbringing because she's somebody who lives in a world of privileged people and she didn't come from that background. So that's something that she really like wants to to hold on to as like something that's different and important to her. And and that's why she gets like upset when other people try to be like, yeah, me too. If she doesn't think it's it's valid. So I think she's a little too defensive about that. But I think there are personal motivations, I guess I'm trying to say rather than just like playing the game strategy motivations behind behind the way that she's like defensive about her her own story and other people's attempts to to compare themselves to her.

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. And also I always just love a scene where a hostwife is like made to wait and is pissed off. I especially love the fact that Sai was going to have made Jessel wait for 20 minutes and then was pissed off that she was the one that had to wait 20 minutes. Right. Because she felt that was her right because she was the one who was invited to dinner, right? She's like, you invited me because you want to apologize to me. So I can show up late and get leverage over you. I get to have leverage in this situation. You don't get to have leverage

in this situation because you're supposed to be the apologizing one, the supplement. What other highlights did you have from New York? Do we think that that Pavit is doing sex tourism? So I don't think that it's sex tourism, but I do think that it's sketch. Like, it's not a, you don't just go to Vietnam for miles. Like, that's not a thing that people do. Like, you don't actually physically need to take the trip. You don't actually need to board the plane if you just want to buy a ticket to Vietnam and just let it, like, get the miles for it, right?

Why would you need to do that? Yeah. I kind of like Pavit, so I don't necessarily want that to be the case. but I think sex tourism makes more sense than like I wanted to buy a bond me. And definitely more sense than like you said, I wanted the miles. Like what other motivations does he have here? Like what else is he doing like for just like a one fly and fly out? Yeah.

I mean, okay, so I've been to Vietnam. It's amazing. You can go to Hoyan, which is an amazing city there. I think everyone should go and visit it. they've got like beautiful lanterns and all lining the streets and but they're known for their their tailoring and you can get like a well a custom fitted suit made like very cheaply there so why not just go there and get a bunch of like suits made and say like that's why you're going that seems like a reasonable reason to go for a bit

yeah if he's looking for cover he should bring stuff back with him in something just like bring like some kind of I don't know dried herbs or something and be like you can only get this in Vietnam I have to I need these for my spicy chicken waffles and this is the only place I can get them which by the way you know when Jessa wasn't getting a little angry at Pavan in the restaurant be like you ask for hot sauce and she's like this is a fancy French restaurant why do they have chicken waffles on the menu if they're a fancy French restaurant I'm not sure I'm Yeah, and so do you put hot sauce on your chicken waffles? That's never something that I've done. No, no, I don't think so. Though what I know about chicken waffles has been called into question recently. I was in Quebec a couple weeks ago in Quebec City and I ordered chicken waffles at a restaurant and they gave me a plate of chicken waffles covered in caramel sauce. I hated it.

I have no idea why, A, you would just smother it rather than, like, you know, let me dose it. B, why in Quebec, you're not giving me maple syrup. Why are you giving me this fucking caramel sauce instead? So I don't know. I mean, I know that there's like a lot of variations on it too. Like there's like the more northern version, which I think is just like like, like, you know, gravy and stewed chicken rather than like fried chicken and syrup or whatever. But the hot sauce is is new to me. though I mean like a bit of hot sauce with maple syrup is like a great

sauceing combo so I can see it I can picture it I think that's not a not a terrible idea yeah I could go for like a spicy breading on a fried chicken on top of waffles I could like get that but yeah I don't know something about like dosing it with the the hot sauce like the vinegar I don't know didn't sound very appealing to me yeah another great thing how they do it in French I don't know. Yeah.

Could be. What else did you like about this episode? All right. So like Bryn choreographing, choreographing. Choreographing. That's the pronunciation. Like a hookup between Jenna and a strange chick in a bar.

So I don't know how you felt with this, but I personally felt it like excruciating, unsexy, almost as much as Jessel and Pavit pretending to get intimate to get it for the cameras. I mean, what did you think about that?

Yeah, so I really enjoyed this scene. What I liked about it was there was like a bit of contrast because you know, this is a scene that Jenna operates in. Like she's a lesbian so she like, she's used to the the social dynamic here.

And to see her be as awkward in this situation as we have seen her when she is in other, like, social situations with the other women, just like to see, you know, what is her personality of just being generally uncomfortable and awkward. I thought that that was really, really nice to see. and especially having a comparison with Bryn being there where this is not her like social scene, but she is just so like comfortable with like people and like wanting to like make flirty connections and really like thriving doing that. I really like that. But the actual execution of it all, the like the brokering of the deal and how awkward that was,

that was definitely really uncomfortable. So I really also like getting that as kind of like the cap on this scene and how it's, you know, very just a rocky scene altogether. Yeah. It does get to something that does kind of annoy me about Brynn. And you had a great defense of Brynn in the previous episode. But she's just like it can feel like everything about her is so like performance based that to have like this moment where she's like, oh, I'm going to be your wingman. I'm going to like help you out here and then like provide specific stage instructions that leave like no breathing room for like the actual like spontaneity and uncertainty that

like allows for actual sparks to fly and actual like connection and like sexiness to like exist felt like kind of to be like a condemnation of Brin's whole method of like being very like very performance based. And yeah, I think that's the one thing that that, I like Brent too. I like, I'm not saying I don't like it. But like, I think that's one thing that gets a little annoying about her whole like flirting with everybody thing. And then when like, you know, Aaron tries to call her out and she says, yeah,

I was obviously fake flirting. I'd never real flirt is that it's like, well, is everything just like performance then? Like is there like an actual like, is there a real Bryn beneath like, constantly playing theater all the time. Yeah. Yeah. I think that that's a good point. I think like what I liked about this was we see her like operating kind of in her element.

Like we saw that she can make a like a scene that, you know, she's able to kind of control a scene and like do her thing. when she's got the tools at her disposal. And like she was effective at fostering some sort of connection. And yeah, it was awkward and didn't like leave enough room for kind of the human element to play. But I think that what we have seen from Jenna is that sometimes she does need like or she could stand to benefit from having someone, you know, kind of lubricate those social. connections and like, you know, especially when she's still reeling from a breakup that she, you know, is reluctant to put herself out there because she's so recently been hurt. I think, I don't know. I don't know that it was necessarily Bryn seeing a, like a need and addressing it and

like going out and doing that or if it was just her kind of navigating a situation as she navigates every situation by putting things on. I don't know I don't want to attribute a sort of social mastermind tag to Bryn. Although I think that she is is great. I don't think we've seen enough of her like navigating social situations to really label her that way. But yeah, I do think that it was just kind of a nice scene where we saw some pieces come together in a way that I wasn't necessarily expecting to see and just compliment each other. It was just, it felt like both organic and inorganic at the same time. And I just really love the texture of this scene. Sure. And yeah, Bryn and Jenna together are like a great combination and contrast for that reason

because they're both very charming magnetic women, but for like, polar opposite reasons, I think, in the sense that Jedda is, is so charming because she seems like very vulnerable and insecure and very, like, you know, relatable and raw in that way. And, and Bryn has a very, like, practiced charmingness that, that, I see as being like very, like I said, very performance based. And, and that's not pure criticism when I say that either. Like, that's, like, that's like a great social skill to have. And it, it comes from, I think, a real place, it comes from the heart too. Like she,

you know, this is part of her. This is part of the way she lives at X, but there's like, yeah, one woman who's really charming because she really knows how to put on a show and constantly perform

and one woman who's charming because she never learned how to do any of that. Yeah. Yeah, totally. And like I definitely understand why Bryn is like you and other people would criticize Bryn as being very performative.

there's definitely like merit to that but i think that there are others on this cast that are equally as performative like i feel like erin is similarly very like fake and constructed and just way more of a producer than brin is and we're seeing you know kind of this calculated image that erin is trying to present i thought that was evident during the the scene, the double date scene with the husbands, where like Aaron brings up like swinging and it felt like she's trying to come across as like cool and open. And it's really like, we saw that also with the prank war stuff where she was like, oh yeah, I'm just so chill and into pranking. And just like what she is, what she is telling us is very different from what she is showing us. And she's not a very, like,

effective producer. Like she's not able to manage her image in a way where I think like Bryn is also sort of putting on a character, but she is just like she owns it a little bit more. It just comes a little bit more naturally to her, I guess. I don't know. What are your thoughts on that? Oh, sure.

I think Aaron's just as constructed too. Aaron's just constructing a very boring personality. That's the main difference. And it is really funny to me that Abe is like, oh, yeah, you know, I'd maybe like get into swinging in like 10 years or something. Like, yeah, this like preternaturally old grateful dead fan like just is like, yeah, I'm going to be an old guy who's like into swing. Like, yeah, man, you said, you said like you'd be a real hit in like 1978. Abe the babe. Yeah,

I can't wait for him to hit the swinger scene. I also like when Brit is like, oh, you know, guys hate it when I can quote this week's economist. Like, yeah, I wouldn't fucking hate that too.

Yeah, anyone is like coming and having a conversation with me and quoting the economist is it's not going to be like, oh, wow, that's love to hear more about that.

Yeah. If you tell me, you have a subscription to the economy, that's like already, I've already done with that. One thing that I do appreciate about Bryn is that she's kind of going through like a little bit about like a Peter Pan

type thing where she's pursuing all of these things that she was interested in as a child and like, like now she's going to be collecting antique books because she was like really into books and we've seen her do that with chess and like

and cars and just like really exploring this kind of lost childhood that she has, I find that really fun. And it also actually feels like there's some element where she's putting this forward as though it is like something that she is, part of it seems performative, but it also seems like authentic. Like these are authentic interests that she has had, that she's now maybe using, putting in front of the cameras that she is like a lot more deeply ingrained in this than she has been. But it does seem like these are authentic like points of interest that she's exploring. And I like seeing her like just kind of navigate this and being like, oh, I'm interested in this. I'm interested in that.

And we're seeing that instead of seeing, you know, her professional. life and seeing her her job. It seems like that is what the substitute is. And, you know, I appreciate that we're getting something different displayed in, in terms of a personal story that isn't someone's, like, job and seeing, you know, kind of that we're seeing someone explore their, like, their inner child. That's not something that I can remember really seeing on these shows before. Yeah, it is, it is, like, sweet and nice.

But it is also, I think, typically exaggerated and performative in a very brin way that instead of like going to the used bookstore and rifling through some paperbacks, she's like, I'm going to put in an outfit with a ridiculous wide print hat and go look at first editions of Mark Twain books. Take it down a notch. Okay. No, I love it because it is like a, you know, we're seeing a common thing with. her and she has expressed this on a few episodes now when she describes her motivation for how she operates by flirting and that's her like go-to personality where like that is a defense mechanism that she learned as a child everything sort of comes back to her childhood her roots there and I think that this is another example of that like she's playing like dress up and going to

a bookstore to look at like books specifically without pictures so that she can like seem more mature um you know all of all of this is her like it's like she is in an adult body but being controlled by like a child like she's you know a someone playing the sims and controlling her making making her go out and do whatever they think is like something a sophisticated woman would do. Right. Like the things that I would dream of doing once when I'm a rich grown up, she's like actually living those dreams. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And it's very like admirable to see that.

Like I find it, you know, it feels like actually authentic to me. Yeah, I do like it. It's sweet. I didn't kind of like sign this episode, too. I'll just say quickly just because I just like that. She's a little harsh. She doesn't really take shit from people. And I do kind of like her being like the most skeptical of Uba's bizarre,

like healing retreat thing or whatever the fuck that was. And just being like, I'm fine. I don't need healing. Also respect Jenna kind of like saying, kind of saying the thing that I think a lot of people think but often don't really want to say about people who are always like

you know I've been seeing a lot of people who are to and realizing that I need to like work on myself I need to focus more on myself and stuff and be like oh you know Upa says that she wants to direct love towards herself instead of always to other people like I thought she was always doing that like it always seems like the most selfish people are the ones who are always like I just need to focus on myself right now

Yeah. But you know, you always like to see, I always like to see just a, you know, a bizarre fucking healing retreat in the middle of an episode. It's always a great, great convention. Yeah, totally. So I was curious what you thought. Do you think that Jessel and Pavitt had sex on their staycation or is Jessel just saying that to get people off of that? If they did, it was like probably really forced in bed. She definitely doesn't give off the vibes of somebody who was like, who finally, you know, we got like, we had like a really great intimate moment.

And I suspect they did it. Like that's that little scene we get of them like trying to be intimate. Where just so briefly like kind of play acts as Bryn as if she's trying to like invoke her as like as like a. as like an image of how to perform eroticism was just like there was no intimacy whatsoever going on, right? Like just felt like like when Jessel straddles him and they're both like how long do we have to do this for? Like expressions on their faces.

Very, very, very awkward, I thought. And so yeah, they're just not. I mean, I don't know. Maybe they had like a period where they were like really into each other sexually. We do know from earlier that like there were roommates for like years, I think. Yeah. Or they got married because like Jessel's mom suggested it was something. Like I'm starting to wonder if these people have just like never had like real sexual feelings for each other.

And just like or eventually like, well, we've been in the same house for long enough that it's time to be married. Yeah. The thing that struck me about that scene was like, I don't know, it seemed like Jessel was earnestly trying to be playful and she's. She was making an effort, yeah. Yeah, like, oh, okay, I'm going to go put the lingerie on. And then she comes out and he, like, laughs at her. And then, like, it's like, oh, that's interesting. That's so brutal.

That is so brutal to, like, do that. It is. So that makes me feel like nothing happened on this staycation. Yeah. Like, I don't buy it. I think, like, I think that size spot on that Jessel, like, desperately wants this storyline to be over. Of course she has like, yeah,

every, every, every, it makes her look so bad. And, yeah, you're right. Like,

like, Jessel was awkward, but she was trying. And, and, yeah, Pavitt wasn't giving her anything. Jesel's a hot woman. Like,

it's, like, very unfortunate that, like, something is just, like, not working between them. I understand that things happen to, like,

couples with kids that I know nothing about because I've never, never been there. But in some situations, I don't know. I've been told. But it's, I don't understand why there's like, there seems to be like no, no sexual chemistry, whatever between the two of them.

Yeah, I mean, I feel like Jessel was trying to put an end to the storyline before, like, she's trying to do it quickly so that she doesn't end up getting a scene where, like, the scene that we got between, like, Aaron and Cy and their husbands at the dinner where they're, like, talking about it and joking being like, Oh, yeah. If I didn't have sex for a year and a half, then I would be off-screwing other women. Like that is the scene that she was trying to put an end to this story before that happened. And that, like, we got that scene at the same time as this awkward scene. So pretty like, it's a very, like, cringe storyline to be following through this. Like I started out with, Jessel's just getting her ass cooked in the show. Yeah, totally.

Did you have any other thoughts on New York? No, I think it's about enough of that. All right. Yeah, so let's work our way backwards. Then let's talk about Orange County. We've got the season finale. What were your thoughts on this? As a season finale, pretty strong.

I do like to see the kind of various storylines sort of resolving into like just Heather versus Tamara standoff trying to Heather kind of making a last stand to try to gain influence and gain supporters even though she's like really has her back against the wall at this point. Kind of made for an interesting episode. It really feels like from some of like the little clips

we got of like meeting she had with other women that didn't end up becoming scenes that she was like trying this with everybody. Like she was trying to gain as supporters from everybody post a Mexico. Yeah. And only really had success with Gina. Gina's the only one who was really kind of Heather Marized or whatever. Whatever Deborah said there.

And a little bit Emily at the end. But it seems like she really tried to like pull everybody one at a time back to her side and only really gain traction with one of them. But a valued effort. and I appreciate her trying to make a final play at being like, this is between me and Tamara and I'm going to try to gain influence. And like, yeah, they try to take her down instead of her taking me down at the end. Don't think it really worked out for her, but she put it up a valiant effort. Yeah, one of the things that I was like surprised about actually, so the thing I was most surprised

about during this episode was when like Shannon and John were at dinner and John said that he wasn't a corn person. like who doesn't eat corn especially like this guy who has made like steak his personality. But anyways, I was shocked because, yeah, like you said, I noticed that Heather was rallying the troops and really seemed like she was trying to set up a battle. But then like once she got to Gina's circus party, like she was just kind of wandering around aimlessly and Tamara's like, oh, she's rallying the troops right now. when she really wasn't. Like, I don't know.

I expected her to have a bit more of a battle plan going into this. And she seemed absent of that. Yeah. Yeah. She seemed to have already kind of given up by the time we actually get to what would have been in the confrontation scene, which Tamara, like you said, immediately recognizes as like, this is the time for the class. She sees, like, Gina and Emily talking to Heather. And you almost hear like the killbill like siren music when she like stares at them and be like, oh fuck.

And Tamara goes in ready to fucking fight. You know, she's got the hands flying in the face and everything. Yeah. You know, wanting to really provoke like a full on screaming match, I think. I think that's what Tamara wanted to have happen. And Heather just kind of really wasn't. Despite making a big effort to try to get people on her side, when it came down to. to the scene where they would have had a confrontation.

Heather just kind of wasn't really game for it anymore at that point, I feel. Yeah. And I feel like I'm comfortable like putting the mastermind label on Tamara. I feel like she was willing to be, you know, the heel here. I feel like she set everything up so that all these threads that were that she had like kind of put out there were going to come together at the end of this. like all these separate messes were going to come together in a single blowout at this party. And she like was, you know, this was her plan to make herself like the villain here and just really, you know, have a huge battle.

And we got a little bit of that. But yeah, like she said when when she called out Heather for like rallying the troops, that's when I was like, oh, she's, she's planned this. like she is like ready for this confrontation. This is like constructed for these storylines to to come together. And for her to be the bad guy, her to be like the puppet master behind or the wizard behind the curtain type thing. Yeah, it didn't really plan out as like a full on brawl. But this was still a very fun final scene.

Like this party actually looked pretty dope by housewife party standards. It seems like it was actually fun. It was like it was loud in there, which is something that I kind of use as a metric for how fun a party actually is on these shows. Because from what I have heard, they don't, you can't play music, right? Because it's all coffee, right? And you don't want it to interfere with the sound. So it's like it's pretty hard to get like a bump in atmosphere. And so depending on how loud the like the crowd noise is, that is a little bit of an indicator for me.

as to how happening of a party was. And this one seemed legit. There was people actually like wooing in the background. And yeah, it seemed fun and always love a opportunity for people to have fights and costumes. That's a Bravo staple that will never get old for me. Yeah. Yeah. I don't get why they were harshing on Heather's costume, but not Jen's.

Like, Jen's was way worse. It was like this cheap lion hoodie that looked like it was from Spencer. not even spirit Halloween. Okay, but a lion is a thing that you see at like a circus carnival, whereas like the character from Metropolis or whatever Heather was playing is not. I guess it may be going for trapeze artist. Maybe that's what. Yeah.

Right. Cirque de Sillet trapeze artist. Okay, that's under the falls under the big tent. But so I don't think Heather's was terrible. But I think it's the least on theme. So I think that's why she deserves. criticism part. Yeah, but that speaks to like her point of reference being like that much wealthier than everyone else. Like their point of reference for like a carnival or a circus is like a

traveling show that has like, you know, what people, a normal circus. Yeah. And Heather's is like Cirque to Salaire. Yeah. Yeah. Also, John, wear the fucking hat, John. Why are you so? Why are you so worse is why are you like this john all she wants you to do is just put a stupid fucking hat on your head it's not even a stupid hat you look good at it and he's just he just can't do it he's just like all he could do is grumble about how he's got this this hat that he doesn't want to wear the whole time he's there john's the worst yeah john john really is the worst and i like get like kind of alky vibes from him as well i don't know the The dynamic between him and Shannon, I feel like, you know, just like people that are kind of together because they like to get like messed up at night and.

Yeah. Just stumble around the same like dark house. That's pretty grim when you put it that way. I think Jen manages to get out of the season though with kind of. of her head held high despite all the attacks she's had against her. We've had her tease a couple times about like Ryan maybe revealing some new information and ended up kind of being nothing. It was just like, yeah, I slept with this person a year and a half before we started dating or something. It was like it wasn't actually a real thing. I don't,

I still don't like trust the guy, but I don't think we ended up getting some kind of confirmation that he's been like a that he's been like cheating on her all along or something that never actually ended up happening. Uh, the kind of late in the, in the day revelation that Jen doesn't really have any money. It is also kind of something that that cast a bit of color over everything we've seen from her this season, I think. Right. I hope she comes back. I want to see more.

Oh yeah, because she said like she didn't, she didn't have access to $5,000. Yeah. Like that's like, I don't know. Like if you need it. She really doesn't have money.

Yeah. That's like, $5,000 is like, yes, it's like kind of a lot of money. but for someone. For somebody in that social media, it's like pretty surprising. To not have access to that for like even like a little bit in an emergency is very dark. But it just shows you how she's been on this whole time.

She's been in a lot like weaker footing than everybody else. Like she's been in a more vulnerable situation than maybe we've realized. Yeah. And then to say that in a room that is like so full of shit that she could sell. Like there's so much like clothes everywhere. Like, yeah, probably got like $5,000 worth of shit that you can sell on Facebook marketplace. Sure. It would just take a while to get there, yeah.

And would reveal like, you know, exposing yourself in a way that, you know, this is somebody who has like fake designer clothing, right? Like she doesn't want to expose herself as not having like access to money. Yeah, but I think that that colors her character like in retrospect and I appreciate having that information. What did you think of Taylor in this scene or the final scene here? Code Red Wasted. Who has I called her that? Somebody called her Code Red Wasted. Yeah, I got a rumor.

I think maybe Gina said that. Yeah, it sounds like something Gina would say. Code Red Wasted. Which is great. Yeah, that's exactly what she was. It's great. You know how much I love just seeing like one of these women just end up way drunker than everybody else. Yeah.

So, yeah, love that for Taylor. It's great fun to have her there. I really enjoyed like how she was telling this this story like what she was upset about some story about like salsa dancing and chicken soup and her stepdaughter it really reminded me

have you seen that old YouTube video the magic numbers oh no I don't think so it's like some way to remember your times tables it's this guy came up with that involves like telling a story with with numbers it reminded

me of that. It's just complete, like, gibberish basically. I'll yeah, I'll send you a link and DM me if you want to see it. Maybe I'll put it up on my Instagram. It's very bizarre.

But yeah, loved seeing Taylor being code red-wasted. I thought that was fun. There was also a moment, like, right out of the gates, Taylor was clearly so drunk already and we got that slow-mo shot of her eating ice cream. And I seem to remember there was like some sort of like incident with her eating on Beverly Hills that had caused her to like not want to eat a like a corn dog earlier

this season because she didn't want it to be caught on on camera. And yeah, the editors finally got their shot to get a slow-mo shot of her eating ice cream. So congratulations to the editors on another win there. Yeah. What other thoughts did you have on Orange County here? That's about it. Like I mentioned last time in reference to the teaser, I'm glad we got one last fake doctor in when we got the incredibly cocky Dr. Tim,

the chiropractor. So, you know, just one more to add to the collection. Really fun. They should make a series just about all the fake doctors. There should be like the not-so-real doctors of Orange County should be like a Bravo has a show called Married to Medicine so maybe

Married to Alternative Medicine. Yeah, married to alternative medicine. Yeah, I didn't have a lot of other notes. Yeah, I think that's about it. How many times a day do poop? Me?

One max. Yeah? Okay. You're on the Shannon one poop a day? Yeah, yeah. I'm not quite... That's excessive. that's indulgent.

Tamara pooped seven times a day, she said during this, this episode. She must be like a deer or something. Just putting out little pellets once in a while. Yeah, I thought the Shannon Colonic product story, the way that that ended was fun. This is the weirdest housewife product that I can remember. And so the fact that we get this little ending on it where they haze Jen by making her try it was a fun way to get an end to that. And I look forward to seeing it on the market.

Yeah, me too. I look forward to getting one for Christmas. Yeah. Put it on the Christmas list. Okay, finally, let's get into Salt Lake City. What did you think about this? I've always got to comment on the foods of the shaker. because there's charkootry plates at the tricksy motel like ass just like a piles of grapes and cucumbers get that fucking shit off there what is it you can't you can hardly see any meat or cheese so it's i don't want any grapes on a chakuterie plate don't do that figs maybe dates okay a whole lump of grapes no nobody wants that what are you doing with it

i like that that was also like what triggered whitney to take over the the social planning like the like gross charcutory and Whitney's like you know what I'm going to take over the planning we're going to have a drag competition or whatever um Whitney continuing to take control of this trip is very fun for me to see I um I I love Whitney as as a house barry it's a very very ballsy play yeah yeah yeah and like the person that is going to have the biggest reaction to this happening is Meredith. So it's, yeah, a Balsy play well executed.

Yeah. I thought Lisa was honestly pretty legendary in this episode. I really, really enjoyed Lisa. Saying things like, I have glam in Monaco. I have glam in Centropay. And following it up with, I'm asking you to relate to me. Another thing, she says,

if a wet noodle looks like a pretty girl head to toe and Isabel Morant with good makeup, then yeah, I'm a wet noodle. Like, you're not dressed up. I am dressed up. I've got head to toe couture and a fendi bag and beautiful eye shadow. I just, it's just very like classic housewife's stuff to me to have these kind of like, uh, make these rich bitch flexes that are really just admissions of extreme insecurity. Yeah. She is completely unable to operate in the world without like her armor of like her normal makeup routine and her like her cooter and everything. And is like so unapologetic about being like, yeah, this is who I am.

I'm rich and fabulous. But it's also just like a very insecure way to be at the same time. Yeah. So Lisa is the only one that gets a pass for me for not participating in this drag makeup competition. because like she did something with not participating. She like made a moment for herself to like throw a fit and cause a scene and, you know, give something to the cameras by not participating. But everyone else that didn't participate, like Meredith just like doing the bare minimum

and not putting on a wig or, you know, I guess Mary kind of gave us, is giving us stuff when she's like sitting out on events too. but yeah, I love Meredith. I'm sorry, Mary staying in the sleeper. I'm sorry, Mary staying in the van. And as they're stepping out, saying, Meredith, signal back to me if you think I should come. Yeah.

And Meredith's like, you should come, which is, I'm going to stay right here. How is you, I've continued to stewing over the fact that you said that Mary's like some sort of cult leader. I have to figure that out because to be like, I just don't picture it. And I need to know how that works. Because I feel like the signal quality of like a cult leader is charisma. And Mary is just so uninterested and connecting with any other person, which is great.

She's just, she's just such a loader that I'm just wondering how that works. Yeah, I, we haven't seen a lot of the like the details of how the church operates. But yeah, her and her, her husband, they. are the heads of this church and their flock is told to like treat them like they are messengers of God I guess and they exploit I believe it people financially so a lot of the the hallmarks of a cult there I think yeah okay

I yeah I could see myself worshipping Mary actually she's cool yeah there needs to be someone that does like a deep dive like you know, true crime style investigative journalism on this, this cult. I would really like to get to the bottom of it as well. Yeah. Also, there's a moment in a confessional early on where I'm pretty sure Mary refers to God as hired help, which is a really cool thing to say. Maybe she said hire help.

I'm not sure. That probably makes more sins. Though who knows with her. And also just while we're talking about Mary, I just love how she sits up the truck's exercise because she was like, no, I already know I don't trust any of these women. Yeah.

As if like the purpose of a trust exercise is to figure out whether you should trust people or not. She's like, no, I already have the answer. I don't need to figure it. Yeah. Speaking of that trust exercise, like Cliff was dressed like he takes that so seriously. Like he looked like an NFL coach in this outfit that he was. was in. It was like serious, serious business. Yeah. Um, yeah, any other highlights from Salt

Lake City? Um, a little torn on Monica's performance. You know, I've been really liking Monica and I do like her taking Lisa to task for, for like, just like flaunting her privilege. I don't necessarily like her like sucking up to Meredith so hard. Um, not really sure why she feels he needs to do that at the expense of Angie. So I think I kind of, um, a pretty mixed episode for him. Yeah, it's a wash for me. I do like that we're getting an extension on that storyline or the dynamic between Monica and this bag and how she is like now it's evolved so that she is taking it out on Lisa as opposed to just like keeping all this embarrassment and, you know, the embarrassment

that she has over making a purchase that was outside of what. she like should have financially and like being ashamed of it she's kind of uh externalizing that and using lisa as as a target i like seeing this story evolve because i think that's just such a um it's like it's relatable it's it's human so um i appreciated that but yeah like you said the the play to suck up to meredith i don't really understand why um yeah i i i If it does anything to kind of deepen the divide between Meredith and Lisa and cause them to just have a bit more tension, then I'm here for that. I don't think that it's like an intentional, like, strategic thing that she's doing. But just I could see, you know, projecting this story outwards, I could see it playing into things and causing a bit more of a rift.

So, yeah, I like to, I like to see that. Yeah. Yeah. Also, yeah, go ahead. Oh, no. I was just going to say also really loving Angie. I think she's a really underrated new edition here. She's like very, very thirsty, but it's in a way that is like causing problems.

So I appreciate seeing that. It's not like thirsty in a way that I kind of attribute to like Aaron in New York who is like really trying to construct an image in order to get like, to be validated as being like cool and chill. It's, you know, she's there, like, causing problems, being a shit to serve her. And, yeah, I appreciate that. Yeah, yeah, I like her too. And I really did like the way she held herself during the conflict with Meredith. And I'd like to see more of that, too.

She stood her ground well. She got legitimately angry. Very entertaining. Yeah. Any other thoughts on Salt Lake City? Oh yeah, another check in the plus column for Monica is comparing Lisa to Varuka Salt from Charlie and the Tucker factory. That was very nice, very well done. That's about it.

Yeah, second week in a row where one of the franchises has made a role role doll reference, right? Because on Orange County, we got the Willy Wonka quote or whatever it was that happened during the Paraset. Which, right. Was it at Taylor who said something like upward and onwards, Willie Waka? Yeah. Yeah. I think that about does it for me. Dylan, want to let everyone know where they can find you?

Yeah, sure. Since we're into October, I'll mention my horror movie podcast, which is defunct, but as two seasons of, two and a half seasons of back episodes. It's called Mind Over Splatter. me and some other people talking about horror movies and a lot of like social cultural context for horror movies. If you're looking for like discovering some horror movies that you might want to watch during the Halloween season, maybe you want to listen to some episodes of that.

And I'll mention again, The Devil You Don't podcast, a limited four episode podcast. They just wrapped up about American history and crypto zoology. Awesome. Well, that's Bravo Outsider for this week. You can find us online at Bravo Outsider on various social media platforms. Be sure to like and subscribe, leave reviews, tell your friends. That helps us out a ton. Until next week, keep on wiping.