Oscars Outsider - Elbows Up! Summer House S9E12 & The Valley S2E02 Recap/Analysis | Bravo Outsider Podcast

Episode Date: April 29, 2025

We want to hear your takes! Give our hotline a call and leave a message with your thoughts on what's going on in the Bravo universe at 1-833-927-0178.Join us on the Bravo Outsider Podcast as we embark on a thrilling exploration of the latest episode of Summer House and The Valley🥂 About Bravo OutsiderThe Bravo Outsider Podcast offers an outside perspective on Bravo shows like The Real Housewives, unlike any other Bravo podcast! We focus on the artistic value of these shows while providing strategic analysis of the social game at the core of the Bravo docu-soap. We love thick literary references and diving into themes before diving into the drama!Chapters00:00 - Intro01:12 - Summer House S09E12 Recap35:59 - The Valley S02E02 Recap🍸Featured Bravolebs:Summer House: Kyle Cooke, Lindsay Hubbard, Carl Radke, Amanda Batula, Paige DeSorbo, Ciara Miller, Gabby Prescod, Jesse Solomon, West Wilson, Lexi Woood, Imrul Hassan, Craig ConoverThe Valley: Brittany Cartwright, Jax Taylor, Kristen Doute, Luke Broderick, Danny Booko, Nia Booko, Janet Caperna, Jason Caperna, Jesse Lally, Michelle Saniei Lally📣 Stay Connected:Find Bravo Outsider:On your podcast platform of choice: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/bravo-outsider/Instagram: ⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/bravooutsiderTikTok: ⁠⁠https://www.tiktok.com/@bravooutsiderhttps://www.bravooutsider.comFind Craig Midwinter:chess.com: https://www.chess.com/member/craigjmidwinterFind Dylan Ferguson:Substack: https://dylanferguson.substack.com/📖 CreditsMusic by FASSounds from Pixabay#TheValley #summerhouse #bravotv #bravo #realitytv #RealHousewives.

I'm Lexi Pilled now. Yeah. This is a pro Lexi podcast. Yeah. Canadians got to stand together. Canada's strong. Albows up. Seth Gordon.

What if it's Seth Gordon? Who's Seth Gordon? So Seth Gordon is the director of Baywatch 2017. What if Jesse keeps getting cucked by Seth Gordon? If Seth Gordon was the director that Michelle was, you know, cheating on Jesse with. And his new girlfriend is cheating on him with Baywatch director, Seth Gordon. Just saying that could be interesting. That could be interesting.

I think that's definitely what's happening. Allegedly. That's a little. I didn't prepare an allegedly signed to hold up as a prop. But you can edit one in here for the YouTube version. Hello and welcome to the Bravo Outsider podcast. I'm your host Craig Midwinter. Joined as always by Dylan Ferguson.

we're diving into Summerhouse and the Valley. So let's get right into it. Dylan, where should we start here? I say we start with Summerhouse like we did last week. I feel like that makes more sense to start with the kind of lighter, more bubbly one. It's like with beer tasting. You know, you start with a lighter more effervescent one

before you move on to the darker, heavier one. So I think that we should start with Summerhouse. Yeah, that's a good comparison. I feel like this is a bit lighter. but there's a lot going on here. Do you want to just give a little bit of a summary very quickly about what happened in this episode? Yeah, I can do it really quickly because it was kind of a one-plot episode. I think it really, the narrative around Lexi and Jesse has kind of taken over, right?

Like everybody's conversations is really just circling around that. So the episode was really just a series of a series of conversations between, other people and sometimes involving Lexi, somebody's involving Jesse about where they're going, what they're doing is this bad and stuff leading up to our party, which is a sleep themed party, snooze fest, where Lexi confronts Jesse about everything that everybody's saying about him being kind of shitty and,

and lays into him a bit. Yeah, I, you mentioned that there's a single narrative that's taking this taking over this episode and this season almost. Jesse and Lexi, I really, I really love this episode exploring that. This really felt like an episode where Lexi is coming into her power and I just, I really love to see it. We talked when we first started talking about Summer House this season about, at least from my perspective, thinking that Lexi was getting this, this edit where she,

was like a little bit delusional, a little bit clingy. And now that is being, we got that like judo flipped. And now all of a sudden she is the one that's in power. And we got that turn happen in a conversation where she is actually changing the narrative in the minds of the people that she is talking to. Like Amanda and Paige and Sierra. like their perspective completely changes and so does ours as a viewer at least from where I'm sitting in terms of how we interpret Lexi's behavior this season. I thought it was it was really great. It really added a level of a layer of complexity to the season as a whole that they had laid this foundation of like this is who we think Lexi is. This is what we think motivates her.

and then she says no actually jesse is the one who is jealous and projected and now we get to go back and you know we talk about Kaiser soze moments when you know the the mug smashes on the ground and we're looking at the board and seeing all of the lines getting connected and now we're actually seeing jesse for who he is and lexie for who she is i just i i really really like this moment i was like oh yeah, I am seeing the arrival of Lexi. I thought it was great. What was the moment for you where you saw that differently? What was the Kaiser-Sosia moment for you?

Well, so, I mean, it wasn't as like sudden of a switch. I'm definitely like, you know, exaggerating. I'm being a little bit here. But I thought the conversation where they were discussing, like who is jealous where they are talking about who the jealous one is and it's actually when West comes in and

is talking with I can't remember who he talks with while Jesse and Lexi are on the bed having their their conversation he comes into that conversation defending like Jesse's like oh yeah well she like

told him to unfollow all these these girls on Instagram And then, you know, all the information that they have received from Lexi, all the contexts that they have received from Lexi kind of changes his mind. He says, yeah, actually, Jesse is kind of jealous. Like he goes from saying, trying to paint Lexi as the jealous one to being like, actually, yeah, Jesse is the jealous and insecure one. So that, like, represented the real turn and that's like what I really liked. But the conversation that preceded that, I think, was the moment where we as an audience got to experience that evolution.

And that's why it was really rewarding to see West kind of experience that same revelation as well. Yeah, he does definitely seem to kind of change tech during that conversation. But I also see that as him still just wanting the relationship to end and just like will attack it from any angle. he can and you're right he starts off by being like oh she she made him unfollow instagram people and and then uh when they when he finds out like he said like that the narrative that they're working out is that jessie is being like is is being a little too to smothering control and jealous then he comes in with like oh yeah and he's like constantly face type you know he's like i'm gonna i'll call you 10 minute i'll call you right away and there are 10 minutes away or something

and that's something that lexie has said before like but she said it differently Like, she's at the start, she was like, oh, it's so sweet, like, how he's, like, constantly FaceTime he be all the time. And now it's starting to take out a different complexion where this is being used as evidence of Jesse being, like, smothering, controlling, jealous rather than being, like, a sweet attentive guy. Yeah, totally. And I don't think that this is a conversation, conversation that changed West's mind about anything.

Like, I think that, you know, he's not really. out there pulling any strings. He's just kind of going with the flow. This is a moment where he sees that the narrative around them has shifted. And he starts going along with that because that's the type of person that he is. He's going with the flow. And so he's just trying to feed into that as best as he can. I just really thought that that was kind of represented how the whole dynamic shifted all at once.

And it was, it was really interesting. Like you said, like Jesse, it still wants that relationship, or sorry, West still wants that relationship to come to an end. He wants his, his bro back. And yeah, I don't think that his mind has, has changed very much. I think he's just playing into the, the social situation that is in front of him. Yeah. Do you think Lexi handled herself well?

Are you, are, is your perspective of her changed? Like, you, you kind of mentioned that. You felt like this maybe the show's perspective on her has changed or at least the way that you've seen her through the show has changed as your perspective on her changed because of this episode. Yeah. Well, you know what? It's been kind of a slow evolution of me like embracing her as as a player here. I do think that she played this well. I mean, I think that she was able to confront Jesse and there's a scene here.

where she's just laying in the bed. After she received all this information from the girls from Amanda about, you know, how Jesse has been talking behind her back. And then she kind of retreats into the bedroom and she's just laying there scrolling. And Jesse comes in and we've got, you know, that surveillance camera style shot of him where he gets on top of her.

He literally smothers her the way that she has been, or she comes to express that he is smothering her. We see that manifest physically the way he gets on top of her and really tries to control the situation, figure out. This huge frame too. Like he just has such a he has a big body that's just like laid draped across her little body. Yeah.

And he is using this like smothering personality and smothering physical stance in order to try to get information from her and, you know, really see and read where, where she's at. And she ends up taking this opportunity to end up confronting him and being like, let's go and talk outside. I really like that she ended up taking control there. I like that she didn't, you know, just with her and just let him, you know, run what's. the narrative tried to like cheer her up or whatever and just like go with the easier option the fact that she actually went and embraced the conflict and really went at him for it i really love so that's that is her finding her power that i like that's what i what i liked about about her and that's what

i mean when i'm saying like she's finding her power here what impressed me about when she confronted Jesse was how she really like stayed on topic. She really kept her focus because Jesse was trying to change it to like, oh, why are they talking about our relationship? He was trying to deflect it to be like those people who I thought were my friends. Yeah. Apparently talking about me this way behind my back. And he's trying to move the conversation down that track.

But Lexi just really just stays on target and is really like, no, they're talking about things you've done. Like I'm not going down that road with you. I'm going to keep this focus. on the way you've behaved, the way you're acting. That's what we're talking about right now. That's what impressed me about that confrontation, was her ability to stay focused on the goal

and not let Jesse sidetrack it. Yeah, totally. And it's so manipulative, manipulative, him being like, oh, yeah, this is making me resent my friends. Do you want me to be like a robot and not talk to them? Like, he's trying to, again, find a way that he can frame her as being controlling. as well as defer any sort of accountability for his action. And the fact that she says, like,

I'm not asking you to be a robot. I don't like that. You're framing this that way. I want to be able to trust you and trust that you're not talking shit about me. Like, I, yeah, you're, you're right. She, she handled this really well.

She was, like, the best version of herself in order to handle all of these tactics that he tried. And he was approaching this, like, very, like, tactic. with a lot of like, he was trying very hard to be manipulative. And I think she was able to really, really attack and dive at the heart and not be distracted by everything that he tried. Also, a very manipulative thing he does is using that, like, we were going to be boyfriend and girlfriend as like a bait as like something that he gets.

propose and withdraw strategically. Like, uh, and yeah, like he's definitely been very smothering. That's like, that's very, that's very clear that I think that's what he's been doing. But he has, he has withheld like full on saying like, you're my girlfriend. I'm your boyfriend. Even though he's like, you know, his behavior is like suggesting that's what they are. But he, he's resisting the label. And it, and, you know, like the Cole's note version.

version of it, you could almost see it as like, oh, you know, maybe he is actually building a bit of space, which is what he probably should be doing, like, to manage expectations, you know, but it becomes very clear when he's like, when, when things are going sour and Lexi will not drop the bone, when he goes like, well, you know, I was going to say you're going to be my girlfriend at the end of this weekend, that he was, he was withholding that as a bargaining chip. He thought that he had used that as a marketing trip. He thought he could use the

the title boyfriend, girlfriend, as something that he can bargain with. And, uh, and yeah, that sucks, man. Like that's, that's shitty behavior. And I love as he pieces out, he's like, well, I wish we were ending this on a better note,

but I don't want to miss the party. And then just goes and pouts to west. Like, yeah. Like really, really showing his colors. I this is not not flattering for for jesse at all but it has been like really awesome to watch on television i've uh really been enjoying watching this this narrative this season it has been because really like i really thought this was going to play out as like i didn't see the relationship lasting but i really just thought it would play out as lexie just getting increasingly duped until like jesse is basically

boning somebody in front of her yeah And to see her stand your ground and do it pretty impressively was like a nice turn of events. Yeah, totally. I'm Lexi Pilled now. Yeah. This is a pro lexy podcast. Yeah. Canadians got to stand together.

Canada's strong. Albows up. This is our game. There were some things that were unrelated to Jesse and Lexi that happened here. And one of the things that I really liked actually, Tom Schwartz was a little bit of a seed here, seeding a narrative surrounding Kyle and Amanda, or at least being a sounding board for Kyle. We got him,

he's going to go and do a semen test at the summer house for some reason. he's going to go. I don't know why he needed to bring it there. I feel like you actually have to bring those things, you know, to get tested within like 30 minutes to an hour. So I don't know what the plan is here. But he goes to do that. But before he does that,

he has a conversation with Tom Schwartz. And we had seen a story on Vanderpumbrils where Tom Schwartz and Katie are like just seeing whether or not they can actually have children and Tom Schwartz gets tested there. And they have a pretty interesting question or a conversation that leads to a question about whether or not it is a red flag if you've been with someone for a long time and they don't want to have kids with you. And we see in the teaser for next episode that this is going to come to a head between

Kyle and Amanda. are there at least going to have a conversation here? But I thought it was like really, I just thought it was really satisfying that we saw this foundation being built for this, this dialogue and this mini narrative here and that we're going to see it pay off a bit later. What did you think about this? Yeah, it is interesting to see Tom Schwartz seed that, as you said, hopefully the seed is viable.

I think only about like 7% of his are. But no, I do like to having that brought up because that's the, that's the kind of like sad sack, like entering your 40s conversation that I want to see from these shows. We've got a lot more of that coming up in the Valley later on. But, yeah. But, you know, Summer House, what's great and also limiting about it is that the house that they're in is this, space that allows everything to be framed as kind of like this eternal friends and partying world,

which doesn't always give us glimpses into those kind of like concerns about getting older and where is my life headed and stuff that that you get a lot more of in like the valley, which is more in people's like actual houses and stuff. You know, we have this like little special box where where people get to dress up and wear funny costumes and you just drink with your friends all the time. But I appreciate the depth that you get. When occasionally you get little glimpses of people dealing with this,

like the tough psychological stuff of like getting older and settling down and things. And shorts is a good person to bring that up, you know, dressed as a as an angel with Raybans on or something. Yeah. I appreciate that conversation because you can actually, you can see like, yeah, you can see kind of Kyle as like sort of chewing on it when Schwartz is like talking about it. And then we get the teaser at the end, which implies that he's going to, that he kept thinking about that and maybe we're going to hear some more later on. So, so yeah, I like having that, uh, that introduced.

It adds a little more, a little more color and depth. Yeah, it's interesting that you bring that up about the, the structure of summer house. Because that's something I hadn't really. considered. But another interesting thing about the structure of summer houses, because it takes place primarily on the weekend, you constantly have this like reset and the week is like is reset and there's like time to breathe. And like you said, because this is supposed to be a vacation house and everyone is leaving behind all their cares and all their work, it's almost like we're stuck in this like eternal act too where you know you can't really develop you have you are constantly being reset at the end of the weekend and starting a new the following week um yeah i think it's uh it's

it's interesting how the structure kind of impacts how the conflict is is approached here yeah you kind of have to sneak it in the back door uh to have those kind of conversations um yeah but did uh did anything things else stand out to you in terms of the presentation here? I definitely also picked up like you did on the security camera footage of Jesse literally smothering Lexi. Another instance where the visuals kind of helped out the relationship dynamic was during that that confrontation that they have. I do like that Jesse is wearing this this robe, this dressing gown.

He's dressed like Hugh Heffner basically. he's just lounging on his chair. And, you know, he's, he's clearly getting angry, but he's, he makes sure his body language in his presentation is what we expect from Jesse, which is like, lounging, having fun, chill dude. Right. And, and the fact that when she's attacked him, he's just wearing his Hugh Hefner bathrobe lounging on the bed, just, just, just felt like that's right.

that's how it should be right now. Yeah, the, the, the, the, the contrast between, like, this relaxation, uh, aesthetic, you know, being as relaxed as possible, but having this very tense discussion is, is really good. There was an interesting parallel moment here as well between the discussion that we got between West and Jesse about how West is making progress, getting back. into Sierra's good graces. Like she actually said goodbye to him without like rebuffing his his goodbye. And then when Sierra and Jesse meet for the first time that weekend, Sierra rebuffs Jesse's like going in like the greeting, the going in for the hello and the hug.

I thought that was a really interesting contrast just to show kind of the the shifting balance of where things are socially. I like that they included both of those. Yeah, yeah, for sure. So did you have a favorite quote or any quotes that sit up to you? Nothing really jumped out of me too much. One of the only things that I really jotted down was just I just liked it when they're talking about Lexi and Jesse. And Lindsay says those two are yikes and page retorts. No, yikes on bikes.

Yes. Yikes on bikes. Good. Great. Yeah. Yeah, I love that too. One moment that stood out to me was when early, before, before Lexi has been, you know, read into the situation with Jesse, there's a little moment that we get there. And we already have this feeling that things aren't quite right, but Lexi isn't verging on pissed in, in her words, yet. she says to Jesse like, oh, are you excited for the party? And Jesse says, no, Sierra's being like big mad at me or like being weird mad at me right now. And the fact that he is like so focused on Sierra, I thought was just really telling and really interesting within the context of their relationship.

Yeah. It's a at least a yellow flag. Yeah. Virgin on orange, that one. Yeah. Okay, anything stand out to you that we haven't discussed strategy-wise? Yeah, nothing that we haven't really discussed, I don't think. How about you? Yeah, nothing really. One thing that I am going to be watching is Carl and Sierra. So we've got a little bit of them flirting here.

I'm interested to see how that impacts the, you know, the social dynamic in the house. Whether we still don't know whether she's that receptive to him having a crush on her. I'm going to say no. Yeah. I'm interested to, to know how that is, that is going to play out.

How about any other highlights from Summerhouse? Hmm. Yeah, I do like having Schwartz back. I kind of made fun of him coming back too. of the Valley last time. And he doesn't really contribute that much besides that little conversation we talked about. But something about him shuffling around kind of perpetually ill at ease, not quite on the same vibe as everyone, you know, um, yeah, heading into a bar and he just says out of nowhere, like, I feel like I'm coming alive again. And it's just, and it's just like,

he doesn't, he never seems to be quite in the same tempo. I appreciate that. Like, yeah, that, uh, that he does bring something to the episode that I kind of like, I was definitely spurking. every time he was on camera. Yeah. You know what? I think Schwartz is a little under the radar in terms of like what he actually brings to shows. I think I've said it before on old episodes of our podcast. But when Vanderpump rules was really bad,

the one thing that you could count on was Katie and Tom really bringing something to create tension. Like their relationship was a constant source of tension. And that's not just the fact that Katie is so abrasive and confrontational and just really a kind of a, she's the P under the mattress. That is magnified by the fact that there's a very anxious sleeper on top of the mattress who is having a terrible sleep and, you know, wants to make everyone happy. and that's Tom Schwartz he's just anxious and brings this like really anxious energy

and the fact that him and Katie were ever together for as long as they were is actually astonishing in retrospect but I think that he does bring this like weird energy that I appreciate having on screen yeah

yeah he had a good outfit too um Yeah, I think one other thing that we hadn't really talked about was the first night at the summer house for this weekend. We had the boys and girls split off while the girls, you know, started doing their party prep. They had their girl dinner and the guys went out and had like the guys night where they all got, got loaded. what did you think about you know this split off and um in terms of how it kind of changed the bonds of if it if it changed the bonds between any of the players here i mean i think it definitely

it provided an opportunity for um for the lexie jesse split to deepen because they're like suddenly surrounded by people who are who are going to be like, well, what's going on between you guys actually? Is it actually good? Like, it just makes sense. Like, especially on the girl's side. Like, they definitely really take the opportunity to surround Lexi and be like,

what's the actual deal here, you know? Like, and talk about themselves too when Netflix is not there to like solidify the narrative. So it allows them to each like solidify their own version of the narrative on their own sides. which ends up converging. And that is actually underscored near the end when after the confrontation between Lexi and Jesse, we cross-cut between

the girls talking with Lexi and West talking with Jesse and indoors. And that was a good moment too, I thought, because that showed how, like, you know, the narratives that they had been sort of settling on before earlier, they come back, but we see how they converge. Because it's edited in such way where they both say something like you don't actually

have that much of a foundation. You've just met each other. They converge on that word foundation. You're right. Yeah, I think they both use the same word foundation. Definitely the same idea. And I think actually the exact same word. And they had to underscore that by cross-cutting and then showing them come to get converge at

that same point. So it shows how the two sides haven't really come up with like alternative narratives. They've really kind of settled. on the same thing, which is that maybe you guys shouldn't be together because you just fucking met after all. And that explains why things aren't working because you went too fast. You didn't build up any sort of trust or relationship first. And yeah, I thought that was really driven home really well. And like, and they really kind of build up attention there, like through that conversation too, which is just like broken by Kyle walking in with like a sloth

mask and being like, oh, sorry, were you guys talking? Are you having like a pro moment? So that was great. But yeah, I think the, to go back to the start, I think, yeah, the girl guide divide gives them a chance to develop separate stories, which end up being not separate at all in the end. Yeah, totally. Another interesting thing is that Jesse spends at least as much time talking about Sierra

on during this dinner as he did about Lexi and I thought it was really interesting that he was using this moment to reframe the interaction between him and Sierra at the charity event last episode by saying like oh I just jokingly told her not to touch me and you know he's trying to frame her as overreacting again and you know he's starting to develop a bit of a pattern here in terms of reframing everyone else's behavior around him as something that it's that it's not. So, yeah, I thought that this was really interesting. Yeah, he also frames that as it kind of being Lexi's fault. Like, I was just trying to do what she told me to do.

Yeah, do you have any other highlight that we haven't talked about? Yeah, I think we basically covered it on my end. Cool. Who were your stars from this episode then? I think I got to give it to Lexi number one, right? I'll vote for her for first star. I'll vote for her as the prime minister tomorrow as well. Oh, yeah. Princess.

Yeah, beyond that, hmm. Yeah, really pretty easy choice for number one for me, honestly. Like now I'm like, who's going to be two and three actually even? Who is good in this episode then? I, you know what? Sure, I'll throw Tom Schwartz at number two. I've said some nice things about it. Let's give him a two.

I'll give him the two spot. And yeah, third is up for grabs. Why don't we give, we toss one to West. I do, I do enjoy him. I do enjoy the way that, that he discusses Jesse, the way that he talks to Jesse. There's always, you see, through him, but he's, he's also, like, very good at, like, at, at instantly reshaping the way

he's presenting a narrative as though nothing has changed based on what everybody else is saying. Like, just, like, wants, wants to be in agreement with everybody. And there's something kind of impressive and fun about watching him do that. Yeah. Also, really interesting, that is what kind of got him into a mess with Sierra in the first place last season, just really trying really hard to on camera be the guy that everyone likes. His people pleasing is getting him into a ton of trouble. This time around remains to be seen whether that is going to come back to bite him or not. But yeah, I think that he is pretty interesting to watch in a very similar way to Tom Schwartz,

who also is constantly trying to please people. trying to be like be is very aware of how he is coming across yeah um you're definitely right number one star for this is is lexie she could get one two three for me but um number two i want to give to jesse uh again because he is just messy jesse and he is you know he's at the root of a lot of the conflict here my third star is going to go to amanda actually actually, because I think that, you know, she was very active in terms of actually communicating this information to Lexi. She was the one that made the decision to do it and when to do it. I actually like Amanda and what she brings to this show.

I think she is a slightly above replacement level reality TV personality. But when I, yeah, I don't know. I don't know what else to say. I don't have a lot of flowers to give to Amanda, but I do like her and I think she, like what she brought to this episode was good. I was, yeah, I was considering her because it was a pretty good episode for her too,

even though it was just like a few moments here, there, but she was the one who like verbalized. You know, he's jealous because he, but he doesn't want to admit it, so he's blaming you for being jealous. Like she is the one who like came up with a phrase that like summed up. that kind of

revelation moment that you said. Like she, as I recall, really put that into words. Yeah. And you know what? Another thing is that Amanda has had almost like parallel traits to Carl over the course of the past however many seasons on Summer House where they kind of

get labeled as as a slacker. And both of them are also trying to start their own thing that isn't tied to kind of like lover boy brand and they're both coming into that at the same time we're seeing amanda do it with a lot less fanfare she's not throwing a huge party to launch this or soft launch or whatever it was that carl was trying to do basically just show that he's got a thing she actually just once all right yeah yeah she actually just went out and did this and it was as as she tells it pretty successful. So, I mean, kudos for her for actually just going out and doing that. So I kind of like that. We're seeing her narrative grow here. So yeah, I think that she deserves a star.

Fair enough. So we're going to talk about the Valley right away. But if you're watching us on YouTube, leave a comment. Let us know what you think. Anyone that we left off of our three stars, tell us who your stars were in the comment. Be sure to hit subscribe and like our video that helps us out a ton. Go find us on your podcast platform of choice and hit the subscribe button there. Or don't. The Valley, Dylan, what did you think? This one was heavy.

I thought this was not a lighthearted romp. I mean, mostly because of the end, right? like this was a pretty sad, intense, angry episode. Good TV, though. Good TV. Yeah. Good TV for sure. What happened on this episode?

Do you want to give us a quick summary? Yeah. So the two breakups are, you know, really swallowing up all the air in the room. Michelle kind of consults with her, with their friends about, about her problems with Jesse and confronts Jesse about dating somebody else and rumors fly about that person who maybe who's apparently dating somebody from Baywatch, which I guess is, I don't know if they're referring to like the show from like 1993 or whatever the fuck, but is there a new Baywatch show on TV?

I don't know. I don't know what they're talking about. Right. Like the David Asselhoff show? like that's not still on the air. I'm certain that they're either referring to that. Maybe Baywatch Knights, the ill-fated sci-fi spin-off. Who knows?

We'll have to find out more information about that. Okay. Okay. Hold for Googling. I'm going to find this out here. Okay. So Baywatch, what year do you think it ran until? Until, I'm going to say 98.

Okay, 2001, it was on the Arento, which is a lot later than I thought. I thought that that was done. Yeah, 98 would have been able to try to save people from the Twin Towers collapsing. They were right on the cusp. Yeah, totally. So there is a 2017 movie Baywatch. Right, that's the Dwayne the Rock Johnson one, right? Dwayne the Rock Johnson.

I don't know why I said it's full name there. Like, I'm a publicist. Yeah, I don't, I don't remember this at all. Have you seen it? No, I haven't seen the Baywatch movie with The Rock. Kid, just asking. Okay. When did Baywatch Nights air?

I don't know. Let me, let me see. Pause, pause for Googling again here. Spin-off series, Switch air. from 95 to 97. Okay. So, and a feature film

out of, oh, okay, no, that's referring to the rock. So the moral of the story is there's not a currently a Baywatch show on TV is there. There doesn't appear to be from you're Googling. No,

not as far as I can tell. So maybe they're talking about the rock. Yeah. I mean, impressive, if that's the case. maybe Zach Afron.

I think he was in that movie too. Oh yeah. Yeah. There you go. Okay, we are, we're deep in the sand now. Yeah.

Anyways, of course, there's also Jackson, Britney blowing up. Jack's going to a treatment center of some kind when people try to

to intervene and, And, you know, it all ends with a big blowup in the house with Brittany. A few little subplots thrown in there, I guess. And Zach-based, Zach announces that he's broken up with, but then back together again with his Canadian boyfriend being threatened with deportation, apparently. Yeah.

They're implying that anyways. Yeah. Seth Gordon. What if it's Seth Gordon? Who's Seth Gordon? So Seth Gordon is the director of Baywatch 2017. What if Jesse keeps getting cucked by Seth Gordon? If Seth Gordon was the director that Michelle was cheating on Jesse with,

and his new girlfriend is cheating on him with Baywatch director, Seth Gordon. Just saying that could be interesting. That could be interesting. I think that's definitely what's happening. Allegedly. That's a little. I didn't prepare an allegedly signed to hold up as a prop, but you can edit one in here for the YouTube version.

Yeah, sorry to derail you, but what's it out to you about how this was presented? Really, that whole final confrontation between Jacks and Brittany, which, as I said, I found, like, super heavy and just, like, depressing and intense. Yeah. Almost I'd, like, watch it between my fingers. It was well done. Like there is like, I love the way that they, they set up with like, Brittany is in the house first and she's like going through the house and,

and she's just like finding things that like annoy her, uh, you know, finds like takes a glass out of the fridge and there's lipstick on it. We get little shots of things that imply that it's like not a happy place. Like there's a shot of like the security camera that has like a card tape to it. So that people can't spy on you. All the pictures of them together are flipped around. Like they're all turned backwards. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So we're treated to this of her like coming to the house and with all these little suggestions that there's the vibe is poisonous. It's toxic. Like there's like, you know, it's uncomfortable. It's it's very. It's just, just an awkward, uncomfortable situation. So we're steeped in that right away with the choice of shots that we get.

and which, you know, lead to Jim Britney being like, oh, oh, the golf carts here where Jacks pulls up in a signature golf cart. And then, you just feel like the weight of this like, poisonous air flowing around in that house. And this,

this is like the total opposite of what I was saying about summer house of having like the space, which is a space curated, both for the audience and for the performers. as like, this is the space where you are in friends and party and drinking mode and weekend mode. This is the opposite of that. This is you feel the weight of this being a place where they live in a place where that their life has like gone to shit together.

Like you feel like that kind of inescapable heaviness of like hanging in the air like a like a myasma and and uh you know they go there and so when it like just blows up you've been prepared for something like nasty to go down and uh and it and it feels like it has its own momentum like it feels like you know once a brittany starts getting annoyed like she can't she can't stop it like she can't stop saying more and more and more she can't stop attacking him more and more Jacks kind of makes an effort a bit at first to not engage, but then he can't stop it. Then he has to start like shouting and he has to start like getting into it.

And you really feel that like irrepressible force that's like hanging, hanging in the air everywhere in every room in that house. There's upstairs downstairs, shouting at each other across staircases across hallways, the physical space, the geography of the hallways and the stairwells. really is something that you really feel when you're watching it. You're really aware of the space between them. You don't want them to get too close.

You feel that house as like a, you know, a haunted house. That's like a horror object, at least I did it anyways. And I thought that it was, that it was impressively executed. Yeah, I completely agree.

I think Summer House, you're right. It's a really interesting contrast because summer house, it's a rental. like it's a vacation space, you can't leave, you have to leave it in as good a condition as, as you found it.

So they're very like, there's no, they're not making an impact on that space. But then in the valley, when we get to Jackson, Brittany's house, this environment is scarred by their relationship. Like you said,

we see all of these, these little, uh, signs of, of battle damage, you know, when Kristen comes over, she almost sits on the chair that's broken from Jack's, like, smashing it or throwing it at Brittany. And yeah, the energy in that house is just, it's so heavy.

It's like, it reminds me of, like, a marriage story or squid and whale or, I don't know why just Bomb Beck movies are coming to mind. But like that kind of like energy, that cloud that is like hanging over the space and thickness there. Yeah, I think, yeah, you nailed it. It definitely you can feel it in that house. And the house is almost haunted by it. So yeah. Great, fantastic scene. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

The summer house is like a place where people can like escape to. But this is like you feel that this is the place where there's no escape. This is like the place where you have to. just be drenched in the in the the negativity of the relationship gone sour there's nowhere to go once you're in there and yeah

yeah definitely a fantastic scene but definitely a heavy grimy watch for me this show is sad man the valley is sad it's such a sad show to me I mean I'm enjoying it I'm having a great time I'm not complaining but but I find this show heavy and dark

very heavy and dark totally Yeah. Anything else in terms of presentation that stands out to you? Yeah, that really kind of overwhelmed my sensation. So that's kind of the only thing that I had to point out, I guess. Yeah, there was another little moment that that really stuck out to me. The way that the initial scene that we get of Jesse was edited, we have him. He's trying to like face. FaceTime Michelle so that he can talk to his daughter. He's like trying to FaceTime his daughter. And then it cuts to Michelle starting or having a FaceTime with her daughter and her new boyfriend is on the other end of the line. And they say, I love you to each other.

And so just this like Jesse trying to get through to his daughter while she's, you know, the signal is busy. and she's saying, I love you to Michelle's new boyfriend. I thought that that was really, it just was an initial point of tension and really showed how disconnected they were and where that situation was at. And two very, like, simple moments, just their juxtaposition really told us so much. I thought it was a really good choice. storytelling wise on the parts of the editors or producers or whoever made that selection. Yeah, that's a good call there.

Any quotes stand out to you from this? I do kind of like Jacks describing his state of mind as being I felt like the Russian guy in Rocky 4. That's good. I like what Jacks tries to make a reference. It's always kind of cute. And he couldn't even pull out the name Ivan. draw go come on jacks but but it was still that that was a good one and also when when a zach comes into brittney's place is that the first time brittany has used i'm brittany bitch as like a

catchphrase or it's brittany bitch as a brittie spears reference i assume from uh yeah uh i don't think i've ever heard her use it that way before i felt like like she's been saving this this whole time yeah yeah i don't know it doesn't come to to to my mind but it seems like the sort of thing that she would overuse. Exactly. That's what I mean. Once the idea has come to her, it's like you would think that it would have been like, it would have been used like, yeah, all the time. Like she wouldn't save it up.

It just occurred to her now. Maybe she was just listening to Britney Spears that day and for the first time a bell rang in her head. The quote that really stood out to me was in the scene that we got between Jackson and Kristen, where Kristen is kind of. giving it to Jack's talking about how he has treated Brittany, you know, even in front of her and as a result of her weight gain. And Jacks replies, no, I love women that look like her. Like to say like, like, I love women that look like her is such a, I, I'm not surprised that it

came out of Jack's mouth because it's Jack's, but that is just like such a fucked up way to talk about your your wife and there's just so much going on with the decision to say that is yeah it just was like okay that is so fucked up

yeah well speaking of porn searches we do know from the early seasons of Vanderpump rules that BBL is Jack's go to porn search so that's not that surprising that he would frame it that way how about highlights what are what are your highlights from this episode um i'll give some flowers to michel uh kind of similar to like how we're talking about lexie whereas kind of like didn't know what she had it in her michel's a bit different she's she's a bit of an older woman more experienced

so it's maybe not that surprising but that she she takes it to jesse pretty hard uh she's she also, you know, when she's confronting Jesse, uh, takes a hard lying stance or ground, doesn't let him do any emotional manipulation. I like the part where he starts turning on the water works a little bit. And she goes, you love to cry. Yeah. You know, it's just very, very harsh, very direct.

And cuts it off immediately. Yeah. Cuts it off immediately. Yeah, it works. She, she, she does that. Turn off the cap. Yeah. And it's really a big victory for her too. You know, she gets Sheena on the phone, audio cabio by Sheena.

They get Sheena on the horn and completely backing up what Michelle just said. Jesse like basically just has to admit defeat in that conversation. And yeah, like, honestly a strong shrug by Michelle. And then later on when she has like kind of a girl's martini lunch. thing. She has a little bit of a moment where she shows some vulnerability and needs a little bit of a cry in her margarita. And it feels

well earned in that moment. It's like you you heard that that slight cry and a margarita or two in the afternoon. Like yeah, you know, pat yourself on the back. Like you made it through like this this tough bullshit that you're

dealing with and stood tall. And you know, she she did stand tall against Jesse end in the face of like this this process she's going through which must just fucking suck. So yeah, I got to give her some props. Yeah, 100% because that scene there's like so much tension between them and like we need to exhale and we can sense her need to exhale. And I really like that we got that moment, that lunch where she does get to exhale a little bit and just like. like let it out. Yeah, it was, it was great to see. Another scene that stood out to me,

or one thing that stood out to me was the scene that we got between Jacks and Jason and Danny when they are, they're coming to be like the 10th person to tell Jacks that he is overstepped. And, you know, Danny comes in and he's trying to like lighten the mood. He makes joke about having hand, foot, and mouth, and Jacks immediately, like, goes and has to, like, wash his hands, and, um, but his body language, he's just, like, buried in his phone the entire

time. Like, he's like, I have heard everybody give me this exact same spiel. Um, you know, I don't need to hear it again. And then eventually, like, he's saved by the bell by having the, uh, the mental

health facility guy call. And he doesn't, he doesn't, He doesn't really need to get into it on camera with the guy. Who aren't insisting anyways, right? Like, they're like, they're being pretty wishy-washy about it. They're like, yeah, we're doing like sort of an intervention thing. And Jackson's like, oh, everybody's telling me that. And he's like, oh, geez, I don't know.

You know, we think you're great anyways. Like, they're not putting their foot down at all. They're not being strong about this. They're being wishy-washy. Yeah, I haven't watched as much intervention as Jacks has, allegedly, but I don't think it's like that. Yeah, yeah, as he says, I'm a huge fan of that show. I just never thought I'd be on it. Yeah.

Probably what the guy from Baywatch said too. What do you mean I'm casted Baywatch? The 90s show? Any other highlights that we haven't talked about here? Yeah. I mean, having Sheena do a classic Sheena moment, even though we don't even see her is always, uh, is always fun. We can see her in our mind's eye when, when she is on the phone there. Yeah.

Yeah. Um, yeah. Yeah. Uh, I mean, yeah, that, I think those, those are my big moments. What about you? What have we missed? Um, yeah, I think that we, got most of it

that I wanted to cover here. Yeah, like you said, this is just it's very very heavy and very dark and then we have this little moment of

levity in the lunch between Brit and Janet and Michelle and I liked this exhale. I also like that it is telling us that there is going to be more levity in the future because Janet invites everyone to Dave and Busters. So I just really love this as like a destination for this whole fucked up group.

I'm looking forward to that quite a bit. Yeah. So far, this season is off to a really great start. It's hard to watch, but it is off to like, I think, a really good start. What do you think? Yeah, I mean, it's emotionally intense from the drop. Like, we're two seasons in and I'm already fighting it searing. So, yeah, sure. That's, that's, that's, that's, that's great. Who are your stars from this? I'll get my first star to Michelle. Like, again, very similar reasoning to giving my first star to Lexi for Summerhouse. A surprisingly strong showing did great. After that, I think I've got to leave both

Brittany and Jacks off the board, even though there are like such a factor in this episode. Yeah, I mean, Jack's, it's just like, he wasn't funny enough to be hysterical and he's just kind of like exhausting in this episode. Brittany, yeah, I guess I could put her out. Obviously,

I like Brittany and it's, you got a feel for her. Like obviously I have all the empathy in the world for Britney. I do think this is totally overshadowed by the end of it, but I was a little disappointed by how much she couldn't criticize Zach in face of when like Janet just kind of, I think Janet just kind of needed Brittany to say something to acknowledge that Zach said something

inappropriate that back at the start of the episode. And I thought that it was a little smileless of Britney to like just be like to kind of just shirk off and just kind of slither out of that conversation. And then the next time we see her is like giving Zach a huge hug, not saying that she should no longer refer. friends with Zach, but Janet makes a strong case that he said something bad that got on that got in her head and that I think Brittany could have shown a little more sympathy to her friend towards that. I hesitate to criticize Brittany because again, I have all the sympathy in the world for her.

And, uh, and, uh, and I'm 100% on her side in this horrible situation she's going through. But just wanted to mention that too. That's part of the episode as well. Um, um, um, I will you but you know what I'll give for a second star anyways what the hell who else am I going to give it to fucking Zach no

like uh you know Janet was fine but she didn't do like she wasn't that not much in this episode maybe next episode

and I'll look forward to that too and um sure and let's let's give a little tap to Kristen too because one thing that Kristen did do was that she was like when she did come in and confront Jack she was more confrontational than I expected her to be.

You know, since her and Jacks have that, have that very close, longstanding relationship. I kind of expected her to be a little bit more like what daddy adjacent were and be like, yeah, yeah, yeah,

you know, some of your behaviors, but over the line, but I love you. You're great and stuff. And she was like surprisingly harsh on him and was very much sticking up for Britney to his face when it was just the two of them together. So,

like, good for her on that. Yeah, I think that those are good picks. I think I want to give maybe Brittany number one star here. I don't often have a lot of great things to say about Brittany, or at least when she was on Vanderpump rules, I just found her kind of annoying.

But I think that she is carrying a lot of emotional baggage in the valley. And it's very compelling to watch. Yeah, I like Brittany a lot in this episode. I think there was a moment especially where she says to Jacks, one day you're going to realize I was the only person that loved you enough to be honest with you or something to that effect. I thought that was like a really powerful line because in the lead up, like you said, we see the scene with like Jason and Danny and. And they're not really like putting like the, they're not raking jacks over the coals for his behavior.

We're seeing Tom Schwartz kind of give him a pass. Everyone is being pretty wishy-washy. The main person that's standing up to him is, is Brittany here. So, yeah, I, I am enjoying watching her. Also, I just want to throw in there really quickly. she also kind of says the thing that is usually never said on these shows when she calls them out for being a cokehead. Yeah. The fact that they actually include that on camera is like usually they don't directly say that in these shows, right?

They talk about the drinking all the time. They always say like they use like, you know, they'll kind of imply that that people are, you know, maybe doing too much drugs. But they, they frame it in terms of partying too hard and use and they talk directly about. you're drinking too much. You got to come back to the drinking because, you know, drinking's legal. It's easier to clear that, I guess. But, but, you know,

Jacks has always read as a guy who does a lot of Coke. And I think, like, most people who watch the shows kind of pick up on that, but it's never, like, directly said. And this was, like, and part of the reason why that, one of the many reasons why that felt like a really, like, Band-Aid ripping off moment at the end was that, like, Britney was shouting things that on camera that, we normally never see on camera.

And one of those was when she directly says, like, you're on Coke all the time. Yeah. Yeah, totally. And that made this scene feel even more honest than it already did. Like, it felt very, like, very honest and true. So the fact that they were coming out here and not using words that are carefully chosen for how they come across on camera.

really added to the emotional weight of that episode. Yeah. Yeah, so Brittany number one, I think Michelle number two, just for all the reasons we discussed. And number three, I will give to Jacks, just because I think that we are,

like he's a main part of this arc with Brittany and the catalyst for all this. so he deserves recognition there. Yeah, I think that about does it for this week. Dylan, do you want to let people know where they can find you? Yeah, you could find me on Substack. It's just my name. That's Dylan Ferguson.

And I'm Craig Midwinter. You can find me on our Instagram at Bravo Outsider, on our TikTok at Bravo Outsider. And just head on over to our YouTube channel. If you're listening on Spotify, or wherever you're listening to podcasts. If you're listening on a podcast platform, head to our YouTube channel.

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