Oscars Outsider - Frock of Lingerie w/ Sean O'Rourke (RHOC S17E07 RHONY S14E02)

Episode Date: July 25, 2023

Join Craig Midwinter, Dylan Ferguson, and special guest Sean O'Rourke in this exhilarating episode of the Bravo Outsider where we talk Real Housewives of Orange County season 17 episode 7 and Real Housewives of New York City season 14 episode 2   We talk about the dynamic in Orange County changing after Tamra Judge tosses the napkin at newbie Jenn. Dylan and Craig disagree on whether Gina Kirschenheiter is having a good season. Shannon Beador's insight into Jenn's relationship and what Emily Simpson brings to the table.   In New York we discuss the trip to the Hamptons. We're two episodes in to the reboot and it's the Jenna Lyons show and we're not mad about it! We discuss the absence of Brynn Whitfield, how Ubah Hassan lights up the screen and Jessel Taank's reaction to the lingerie.  We also briefly touch on Bethenny Frankel's proposal for a Reality TV union and Puppy Gate 2.0!  #BravoOutsider #VanderpumpRules #pumprules #scandoval #realhousewivesoforangecounty #realhousewivesofnewyork #bravo #realitytv    Find Dylan on substack at https://dylanferguson.substack.com/  Find Sean O'Rourke online as @seanshaircut Music by FASSounds from Pixabay

Hello and welcome to another episode of Bravo Outsider. We've got a great show ahead of us. We're ready to talk about Real Housewives of Orange County season 17, episode 7, and Real Housewives of New York, season 14, episode 2. Joining me, as always, is my co-host Dylan Ferguson. Dylan, how's it going? Great. Stoked.

Awesome. Minimalist reply today. Yeah. I was waiting for the prop or some sort of sight gag here. but nothing. Sorry. I'll come up with something by the end of the show. I'm sure.

Each week we bring on someone who doesn't follow Bravo and get them to watch the episodes in order to get their perspectives. This week, joining us is Sean O'Rourke. Yes. Hello. I love that one. That's one of my favorite, Nicklans. We all know it.

It sounded like Luann. Shouldn't I be like grabbing the mic from someone aggressively? Yeah, that's how you open cabaret. Glad to have you back, Sean. You were on for Vanderpump recap episodes, and I think an episode where we covered New Jersey, and now we've got you here to talk about real hostages of New York and real housewives of Orange County.

Do you have any past experience with either of these shows? Well, first of all, returning champion. Thank you. Orange County, for sure. Maybe, like, when it was pretty new, like, 2011 or 12, Orange County was the Real Housewives show. Actually, Orange County and New York, were the two that I sort of kept up with,

but then haven't watched in a long time, which is similar to my experience with Vanderpump rules. But, like, I was sort of excited because New York was the one I, New York and Orange County were the ones I had the most memories of, but particularly the characters in New York. and then much to my surprise, this whole season is like a hard reboot. But anyway, we're getting ahead of myself. Yeah. I've got a little bit of experience, but again, not in the past decade.

So it's pretty fresh. So obviously on New York, there's not going to be anyone that you recognize, but on Orange County, were there any characters that you recognized from the time that you were watching it? I think so. Orange County feels like the one, the most like Stepfordy. one where they're all or mostly the same except for

I'm blanking on names so far Emily who is like there's a couple that have a different hair color basically but most of them are all sort of blonde and look and act the same so I think Tamara is it maybe was on but I can't I'm not confident yeah Tamara was on

like I think season three or something like that is when she in my head I have the sense that her husband at the time because I get I think she they mentioned her being divorced but I I feel like there's a scene early on of her husband at the time buying like impulse buying two watches for 30,000 dollars and me being really mad at that and I had like a a flashback memory but I don't know if it was Tamara I might just be throwing that on the first person that I vaguely recognized yeah um awesome well let's get right into our recaps.

Were either of these, like, more compelling to you? Is there anyone that you want to start with in particular, show? I think maybe, let's do Orange County first. Because I feel like that one has the more developed set of interpersonal things, dramas. Yeah. So, okay, I think that both of these episodes, I think Orange County, there's a bit more to it right now. You can't really fault New York for that since it's just getting going. And it seemed like it was setting up a lot.

So, you know, it gets a pass. But yeah, Orange County, I feel like there's a lot to talk about here. Do you want to start with what your highlights were? Or actually, let's start with your first impressions on the housewives here. Anyone stand out to you? I think I took the most notes about Emily. I just found her the most interesting. And there is a lot of Emily, like, in this episode,

get a lot of shots of her home and stuff. I also get the sense that she might be a bit younger than the bulk of them. Her and the New York one, Gina. Yeah. Gina? Yeah. So yeah, I get the sense that they're a little bit younger. Because to me, Orange County feels like the Gen X Bravo show to Vanderpump's, like, millennials.

kind of energy. But Emily and Gina, I think, are contra that. Most of my notes are just about like weird stuff in her house. Like she has a little nightstand with a mirror on the bottom shelf. I have no idea why there's a mirror

four inches off the ground. You got to check out your toes. Yeah, I guess. They do. There's an interesting shot that like the dogs are playing. and the cameras low to the ground and catching him here. I'm like, oh, that's like as cinematic as this gets. That's pretty neat.

But Emily, I think I just felt like the most human, like the least like Stepford robot kind of thing. Like she's talking about her childhood and her relationship with her mom and all that. I also really do like very minor, but her husband seems like a normal schlobby dude. Like he comes home from work and like a polo shirt and a backpack. Which again is so like,

not the vibe of the rest of the Orange County feel, I think. Like the, we're going to take a pink boat to what is clearly a four-figure bill dinner at Nobu with like Tom Ford candles. Yeah, it's interesting that Emily is the one that stands out to you in terms of who is kind of like distinct from the Orange County lifestyle. I would have, like, I would have pinned that on Gina just like out of the,

the crew kind of knowing them. We don't really get a lot of but in this episode, yeah, we I have a lot of notes about Gina in this episode because I think that she had a fantastic performance that I want to talk about a bit later but we didn't get a lot of her

backstory for sure in this. It was just kind of her being a very like active housewife socially but Emily has like this season she had previously been like a practicing attorney and was very career driven and she's kind of stepped back into into her like home life and put her career on hold so that Shane can pursue his legal career um so that Annabel can pursue her modeling career.

Yeah, exactly. Be a full-time momager. But that that really seems like she's actually trending towards the house, the real housewives or Orange County kind of like Stepperd-Wyme mold. And she's, you know, kind of ebbing that way as opposed to, you know, I feel like she did kind of buck that persona for a long time, but it feels like she's kind of leaning into it this season. Yeah, that makes sense.

Yeah, like not knowing any of the the backstory on any of this, it's tough to backfill like what all the drama is. I did pull that like every other Bravo show, they're referring to girls' trip drama. Seems to be like a big cornerstone of the whole thing. Yeah, totally. And I think that that's one of the reasons that we got to see a lot of Emily because she wasn't present on the girls' trip. And so now they're kind of like filling out and giving her time. I thought that the scenes that we got between her and Shane at home where she has this emotional call from, her mom, like, I don't know, that's kind of sweet.

It's not the most compelling thing in the world, but it kind of helps round out her arc this season. so, you know, I'm not mad at it. Are you sure? No, yeah. You know what? If this was all that Emily was doing this season, then I'd be like, okay, let's get this over with. Let's move on. But I do think that she is doing some things that are interesting this season.

And we see her needle during this boat trip and like at Nabu or Naboo, whatever the rest. restaurant is. We see her kind of needling and trying to make stuff happen. So I really appreciate that she is, you know, trying to do something here. You know, I feel like there was a time where she kept like teeing up Tamara to like make digs at at Jen. She was really like, you know, serving up the, the alley-up to Tamara and really like pumping her tires and trying to get her to like go at gen and it was really effective because you know we did see that that conflict happened on the boat but we're probably getting ahead of ourselves once we start trying about

that scene so um did you have any other any other thoughts on the uh the cast here or did you want to jump into your highlights uh i didn't go to the my highlights i guess um i think like I'm sure it's a highlight for everybody, but like the weakest napkin throw of all time to start a fight. Really, really love that whole scene. Have you ever seen a strong napkin throw?

I've seen stronger than that. You can ball it up a little bit. You can get, you know, get some, get like a trebishop action. You can throw it harder than just sort of like wafting it over while yelling at someone. That whole thing That's Tamara, right?

Throwing it in the napkin And then like storming out and like coming back in like I'd hate Tricela to nobody in particular is like Really good really good TV. Love that whole scene. Yeah. This was a this was like a definite highlight for me. And I think one of the most interesting things during this

whole episode happened was not just the the napkin throw. but kind of the like the follow out from it because I think yes it was like a great TV moment for Tamara to create she really leaned into that but I think that she kind of let she kind of exposed herself and gave some opportunity because like she shouldn't have left the table is what I'm trying to get at she should not have left the table after that you know she should have like stayed at the table and like stepped on Jen's neck to like finish her off and make like Jen storm out so that she wasn't the one to like storm off because as soon as she did, Gina immediately capitalized on this. And while she was like outside of the restaurant or doing whatever she was doing with Shannon, the deck was reshuffling real fast at that table. And there's all sorts of alliances that were like, you know,

the relationships were changing so fast. And like everyone was talking. And, you know, if Tamara was there, that wouldn't have happened. And Tamara could have like, stayed on top of what was happening socially within this group. But, you know, she left. My favorite part about that is that when she comes back, she asks that acting coach who's like randomly there and barely knows anybody for a recap.

She's like kind of like, what did I miss? The actor coach is like, okay. Yeah, so Gina was saying that she feels like she's a fake friend because it's so great that she just turns to her for a recap. Yeah. That's amazing. It also speaks to like Tamara's sense about being a host wife. Like it seems like she like hurried back to that table once she kind of realized that, you know, maybe I need to be present for the fallout on this. And like immediately turned to someone who has really no skin in the game to like, like, okay, can you like catch me up in an unbiased way?

Also she immediately switches from like having throwing a napkin at 70 to like satirizing the fact that she threw a napole. kid like with like Jen's still sitting right there fuming. I love how like quickly things move in Tamara's mind. It's just like popping balls all over the place. Like one of those little kids toys where you push little like fake mac when balls are popping. It's just constantly shifting in her mind. She is she is such a chaotic mind. It's so beautiful. I love watching Tamara's performance throughout that whole thing.

I love watching her go to the bar and saying just a random guy, I hope you get snatched tonight. I love. And I love that now that like Shannon's like made up with Tamara, Shannon's just like her like sidekick just like trotting around being like slightly shocked and be finaled and be like, oh, you shouldn't have said that. Oh, you shouldn't have done that the whole time while she's just just going off just being a fucking nut. Shannon is the Rick to Tamara's Morty.

Yeah, I thought that this this scene was amazing. I thought we got like one of the best. confessionals of the episode was when Emily was like, how many napkins need to smack you in the face before you say something negative about Tamara? Because it's more than one. Yeah. One other thing that I really liked about this scene was how Gina handled Heather.

I've said it like many times on this podcast so far. I think that Gina's just having like such a fantastic season, both like coming across very authentic and how she's managing relationships. But also it's like very strategic. I think she's like she's seeing the the playing field for what it is. And she's really knowing how to kind of like handle the the relationships. And I think she does a really good job with Heather here. She comes pretty close to like almost over.

playing it a bit because it seemed like she was like really dwelling on things. But I think she got her point across to Heather really well. And she made sure that she got like confirmation from Heather. And Heather was like, yes, I hear what you're saying. And like I'm going to work on that. I think like she did a great job of kind of reestablishing the foundation of a like really, like really mutually beneficial relationship with Heather strategically if Heather continues on this show and um you know building up a a side of pawns that she's able to manipulate to make

things happen in this world. I think it was a really good move to reconcile with Jen as well too for for Gina. Um, I don't totally agree with you that she's been having a great season. I, I felt that her season's been a little rough because I feel like, um, she's been trying to, she's been trying to work it. She's been trying to stir shit cause problems, which is good. But I feel like she's been doing it in kind of an artless way where it feels like she's just not minding her own business. And she's been getting a lot of blowback for it. And I think she's been kind of deserving the blowback because she's been indelicate about it.

But this episode in particular, I agree that I think she's been doing a good job getting, kind of mending fences and getting in a stronger position. And I think that like, budding heads. with Jen over. And that's the other thing that I find a little bit hard to like about Gina's. Her criticisms have been like very like judgey and Puritan, I feel. And that's just very, yeah, self-centered. Sure, yeah.

And I think like her attacking Jen based on like I understand that you've been somewhat indiscreet in your relationships or like that's, that's a, no go for me. It's triggering for me. And I get that it comes from a personal place. So I just add that. But I thought it was a bad look for her because it's also burning bridges and makes her look like just like very judgmental. And so for her to like make a huge effort to like bury the hatch with Jen, I thought was a was a good move for her. She needed, um, she needed that ally back. And I agree that when she gets like really into to needling Heather and gets Heather to like concede that she was wrong. That was a, that was a strong move as well. Heather was kind of being a

punching bag this whole episode and she deserved it. I said some bullshit in the past couple episodes. And to Jita, especially, like, when she said that, that shit about, like, yeah, your boyfriend's probably tired of putting up with your shit or whatever the fuck she said. Like, she's, she said some dumb, dumb-ass shit. So, like, if she's been taking her blows this episode, she's deserved those blows. Yeah, and I think she's handled, handled them well. Like, she's, like, taken them and, you know, in stride.

but just to like you know come to Gina's defense a little bit again I I feel like you know she's not that far removed from this infidelity with you know this is still like fresh and this relationship is still kind of like feeling it itself out like she only joined I think three or four seasons ago and she was married at that time so it's not like it's not like she's so far removed that this is like so astounding that it would be very like triggering for her. It comes across as like more honest to me. Sure. I think she is using it strategically too, but like it does feel like an authentic like thing

that upsets her. I don't begrudge her having like a kind of traumatic reaction to something in her past. I begrudge her using that against Jen because it's like that's a YP, right? Like that's not like if you're triggered by Jen, it's like not it's because of problems that that you've had in your life, which is like, which are real things and, you know, deserves sympathy and all that. But it's not it's, you shouldn't be taking that out on somebody else because they've had like a bit of infidelity in their life. It just feels very like judgmental to be like you shouldn't. I don't want to be around you because it's, it's like knowing things about your life is triggering to me. Yeah. You need to figure out how to work on that on yourself. It's it's something that you need to own and figure out how to how to deal with rather than like accusing other people as though they're aggressing you with their existence

because of their like personal history. Yeah. In the real world, yeah. This is real house. Right. Um, but actually like I feel like she wouldn't be able to get away with this and people wouldn't like stand up for it. And she would be getting a lot more blowback that she would deserve if, you know,

if Jen were playing her hand better and being a bit stronger. We just posted a video on our YouTube channel where we're talking about there's a couple episodes. We've got a clip where we're talking about the weak decisions that Jen is making and how she could be using this situation and in a way to make stronger choices and go on the offense a little bit. But she's just like, she's just turtling. and not like not doing anything with it and just like letting people kind of get their punches in as opposed to you know taking these attacks and like you know judoing them or akito or whatever the one where you flip people around is um judo's the one where you use that's that's what we really want to see and then ikeedo is the one that stephen segal does so judoing Oh, that's the magic one, right? Yeah, Iquito is magic, and it's so magical that it'll make a stunt man choke you out until you poop yourself.

So the story goes. I don't know if you've heard that one, but it's not, it's not Bravo. We'll do a video essay on that specific thing on Bravo Outsider, outsider. But be on to Segal Outsider. I want to do that. Don't tell me. But she could be using these attacks and like, and turning them around. She could be like, you know, well, that's your problem.

And then using this as a position to like attack back. She does that a little bit with Tamara, right? When she insinuates that Tamara was also like sort of hidden on Ryan. His name's Ryan, right? Yeah. And then she only like cedes the idea. And I think that's actually a strong move to just seed the idea and then not look like. you're being like petty grasping at straws by trying to force it to just kind of imply like,

yeah, you know what I'm talking about, but I'm not going to say anything more because I'm being the bigger person and not being crazy like you. I think that's also a strong look too. Yeah, I can see that. I don't think she's in the position to play that softly right now. Like I think it's too late for her to, you know, to do that. Maybe, you know, it's easy for us to say as, you know, from the outside looking in. But like, I think at this, this point she needs to come out strong and anytime there's someone that is is saying oh well you know what gina maybe you're being a bit unreasonable here that's the opportunity that you have to really go on the attack when you've got people like rallied around you but she didn't do that on the the montana trip and

she had like she hasn't done that any other time that we've seen her do that we haven't really like the fact that she's doing this against Tamara just like ever so slightly but still not saying anything negative and not being very like offensive with it it seems like it's too little too late against a foe that is too strong like Tamara already has so many people on her side that are you know that at the very least if they're not on her side they're not going to want to immediately come to Jen of all people's defense. in this. There's nothing that she can really provide them.

It's interesting that maybe the most likely person to do that would be Gina, and that's the other person that she has a very stressed relationship with. Cool. Sean, do you have other highlights here? Mostly just like small stuff. In terms of the blow-up at the restaurant is it might be, scene highlight. But I really like,

so I'm just perusing my notes to find his name. There's the guy who loves to grill, that boyfriend that we only get a glimpse of. John, maybe. He seems very aware of the camera. Okay, yeah. But the little scene we get of him and Shannon, where they're making dinner and like,

she keeps opening the fridge and something keeps falling out. And this is a wonderful, like, small domestic scene that just, I don't know, had me cracking up. This is this moment where she's talking about them getting another dog and stuff. And she said, I'm like, I worry about another responsibility. It's like, yeah, you can't even open the fridge, right. I'm not sure if you guys watch the same version of this that I did, but it had this, like, almost pop-up video style, like, commentary on it. Yeah, I thought that the, like, the pop-ups were really, like, painting John as being, unreasonable and it was like coming up next, John is going to like avoid commitment.

And it was just him being like very reasonable. It was called like never before seen like a C-E. Yeah. But like that's why why are you giving me a pop up with a poor condensing of information you're going to show me two seconds from now? Like I don't understand what the purpose of that was. And very biased. Yeah.

I don't, I didn't get that he. was like avoiding commitment. He was like very reasonable about, okay, John had the like the funniest moment of the whole episode for me, where when Shannon started to get like a little serious and she seemed to be like very getting in a pensive mood and she's like staring off in the space.

And then John is sitting across from her and he says that they quote, okay, steak. And stands up and walks towards the grill. That's his culture. He's like a middle age guy. It's like, those little pop-ups are like an executive summary for someone who didn't have time to watch the episode.

Like, just tell me what I'm supposed to feel. Okay. Yeah. Hate John, Heather, psychopath, whatever. But, like, was this not unreasonable? Like, Shannon does have, like, so much stuff going on. Like, why are you frantically trying to add another dog when you've already got two dogs? She's got to worry about the call.

address that question. Address why she feels that way. Like, interact with it in some way. Instead of just saying steak and shuffling off. You can't tackle these tough questions before getting some protein in you. True. Yeah, you've got to nourish the old think bone. I think, like, John knows when Shannon is wearing something that hasn't off-gast enough.

And she's not going to engage. Okay. What? Yeah. Yeah, this consignment store scene blew my mind. The whole offcasting thing. Like, we all, everybody has a thing they're weird about fine. Okay.

You're going to buy secondhand clothes. Sure. Knock yourself out. But then they go and they're like, they get like a sweatshirt and a bag. It's like $3,300. Oh, yeah. The first it was insane. What?

You're paying for the offcast. Yeah. I take the off-gassing thing as like a running, running theme with her. Or did it just come up? So this was brand new information. It just came up. Yeah, this is brand new. Amazing. Yeah, I could not follow it. I was like Googling like, is off-gassing real? Like, what?

It got me worried for a minute before I was like, I should not be, I don't need to base any of my experience with the world on. on real housewives of Orange County and they're concerned. Especially what Shaded believe. Shadden seems very far into woo-woo shit, which is great.

Good for her. I mean, yeah. I want to know what kind of targeted ads you're getting now, Sean, after that Google search. Oh my God.

My, between watching stuff, like, for talking to you guys and all the other stupid shit I have to Google, it's just a, it's a name.

I'm getting a lot of, um, Japanese ones lately. I assume from like, I don't know, watching movies and the, the phone microphone, but anyway.

Any other highlights, Sean? Okay, yeah, we covered the consignment. No, I think those are the main ones for me. Just the whole conspicuous, like I know the Bravo universe conspicuous consumption is like a big part of that's part of the fun, but this one's like on another level. Like I think I met with Nobu and the Tom Ford candles and the silver chopsticks with the, oh, by the way, what do we think the actual Japanese idiom

for Too Fabulous to Shovel shit is. Like was it a literal translation? And they were like, whatever. They just wrote like some random shit because they knew that nobody's ever going to check up on it. Yeah. Yeah, there was like someone on Fiverr that got that gig come across and I was like, what the fuck is this?

It's just part of the credits to Akira that someone put on there. Dylan, what were your highlights from this episode? If we could just go back to the scene with Emily a little bit, first of all, I do think the delivery on the part of Annabel was awesome when Emily mentioned that they want to get slip inside slides and she says, for women? Yeah. Good showing from Annabelle there. But my favorite part, Sean, you mentioned that there is like a lot of great dogs.

Always in a look at for dogs. You know, they love a dog insert in these shows. They love to get some B-roll of a dog and stitch them in. Often one of my favorite parts in all-timer in the Emily scene. When they show the dog with a coat on his head and he just looks like the most depressed. dog you've ever seen yet to go. And then, but the best part is like later on, they like start to get a little more emotional. She's talking about her mother.

She's going to get off the other room to talk on the phone. And then we just get one more little shot of him still standing next to the door, still not being let in, still looking like the most depressed dog on earth, just a little insert of him just staring at you. And then no, we're done with that. That was just a beautiful little insert of the world's saddest dog that people are laughing at, but never letting him inside, which is clearly all he wants. Speaking of great dog content, how about the show opener where we got Ryan in his like his cowboy, his cute little cowboy costume with his like straw in his mouth and like Tamara hands him, his dog's ashes.

Yeah. So I wanted to ask because like not having any context here is, is that Ryan always a cowboy or is that like, did he just get back from Montana with them or what's the deal there? That's new this season. He's a, he's a cowboy now. Oh, okay. Or showed up at like a party they were having and just like strolled in dressed in cowboy gear. And everybody's like, hey, he's a cowboy now. It was so great.

It was so amazing. His last costume was like, was like mega Ryan. He was like very, very into the Make America Great again. And, yeah, he was he a January 6th? A weird dude. Oh, probably. Don't check the tape. Actually, my favorite person in this episode was Shannon.

I thought Shannon was amazing this episode. And I just really liked the sentiment she expressed when, you know, everybody's like, you know, there's a lot of criticism going towards Jen because Jen's seeing this guy who is 110% going to cheat on her. and 120% already has cheated on her and will again. And everybody knows it, including presumably Jen on some level also knows it. But Shannon unexpectedly mounting a very emotional defense of her embracing this relationship regardless. When she says, well, like on the verge of tears in a confessional, Jen may be an idiot, but let her figure that out on her own. That sounds like a dig in isolation, but the way she says it, she says it with passion,

and she says it with feeling, and she says it with tears in her eyes. Like a parrot. That's a, but that's a real sentiment that needs to be expressed. Honestly, it is. It is. Sometimes you've got to just do a fucked up relationship with a fucked up person because that's what you need. Maybe she is getting, like what she's getting out of this. a good sex, feeling important, feeling like she's the center of his world, getting some sort of validation.

Maybe what she's getting is actually worth the price that she's going to inevitably pay down the line. That's a hard conversation to have. But I feel like Shannon's gesturing towards that. And she says something about like, you know, that's actually just what I want. Just like that somebody to like, you know, make me feel that important kind of thing. And if it ends up being something painful down the line, maybe that's a tradeoff that's sometimes worthwhile. And I thought seeing Shannon express that sentiment and being very emotional about it was kind of moving and unexpected. And I really liked that a lot.

I found it touching. Yeah, that's true. That is like totally a great take. And, you know, I think we didn't see what Jen's relationship was like prior to coming on this show with her husband. Like, who knows? she's already probably received a lot from, you know, this relationship with Ryan in terms of it giving her the power to leave a relationship that she was ultimately unhappy. You know, so there's a lot of things that you can get out a relationship that, you know,

aren't necessarily the things that you immediately, like, think about as being a benefit. And you're right. I think that is something, you know, that Shannon kind of hints towards and seems to embrace. So, yeah, that's a really good observation. Yeah, so that was my favorite part. And also just like once again going on a boat wearing the worst possible footwear for being on a boat. Why do they keep doing that? Somebody is literally going to break their ankle before this show's over.

I cannot believe they keep doing that. I think we covered most of my highlights. Either of you guys have any other thoughts before we move it on to New York. Heather's terrible fucking dress that she wears Sadobu. That where she looks like she's dressed like a bad Greek restaurant. What was that? All these like a pastiche of like welcome to Florida postcards or something. It was such a weird print.

Absolutely insane. that's about it awesome well let's uh let's uh let's uh get into real housewives of new york before we get into highlights Dylan i'm curious do your power rankings of the housewives of new york change uh after watching this episode um i don't think so no i mean i didn't really i don't think i

power ranked all of them. I think I mostly just said that I thought like Jenna followed by Uba were the ones who came out best. And after a second episode, my opinion hasn't changed. Like I do think basically through two episodes, we are watching the Jenna Lions show. And I and with like a very fun supporting to turn by Uber being fucking a bizarre human being. And and nobody else has to come out and stood forward yet. It's the second episode. That will come, I'm sure. But, you know, wait and see. But for now, we're getting, like, a lot of, like, for me, like, really good emotional content from Jenna, who's, like, such an immediately distinctive person.

And then, like, a bunch of other women. Like, being there. I'm so, like, we didn't see Bryn basically at all this episode, which I was disappointed by. Friend of the show. But, yeah, friend of the show. But we're going to see her next week, according to the preview. So pretty stoked about that. But I would agree, like, Geneline and Uva are the two kind of standouts from this episode.

And then in terms of like the rest of the women that we did see here, I feel like, I like what Jessel is bringing to this. I'm still like kind of unsold on Aaron and and Cy. We haven't like, Sai hasn't been given a lot of opportunity. She hasn't had like a lot of screen time and we're seeing her like kind of take advantage of the screen time that she's getting, but it still has been a little flat for me.

But Aaron has been getting a lot of camera time and it's not like, I don't know, I'm not very engaged by her. yet. I agree with that. Yeah, Aaron feels like a replacement level at this point, housewife. Like you could plug any old housewife in there. Again, with two episodes. Yeah, still early in the season.

A lot of baseball left. Sean, what were your highlights here? I agree that Jenna and Uber are like sort of a league of their own as the most interesting. far. I really like, I love everything about Uber. Uba. She's like an alien who's come to Earth and is like,

just delighting. Do you guys ever see the, that I think you should leave show, the motorcycle sketch? I hope I don't have to go into quoting this sketch. Okay, well, forget that. She's like a very, like, pure and innocent space alien who's just like, delighting in the world around her. And it's just like so fun to watch.

I can't take my eyes off. Like that little mission she goes on to get a sandwich at provisions that she's been talking about the whole ride. And there's the shot following her. And she's like so excited that she can smell it and then it's closed. And like when she goes and what was she smelling? Right? Just the Hamptons.

When they go, she goes into like the walk in at that restaurant. charm and takes a can of coconut milk, but she's like, oh my God, you can never find this coconut cream anywhere. You have to get the, it's just regular coconut milk. You live in New York City and you can't go get a can of coconut milk. I'm sure you can go to any bodega and pick that up a child, but she's never been to a bodega, so she doesn't know. Yeah, like it's, yeah, it's 9.30 at night in Winnipeg and I could walk down the street and get a

can of coconut milk. But, like, just everything about Uber is amazing. Yeah. Her proud, proud starfish status. My other big highlight is, in a nutshell, Jenna, but it's this one moment in particular, this is great juxtaposition where she's talking, Jenna's talking about her mom had, I guess what at the time would have been Asperger's. And it's like, I think it's like a pretty good emotional confessional, like describing how her mom diagnosed late in life and like I get a lot of like sympathy for that like it's got to be

really hard growing up hard for the mom hard for the kid and then we cut right to air and being like basically like yeah we like Jenna but her mom was a bitch and raised her wrong and sometimes she acts like a bitch like to how to do and not do autism awareness yeah I also um I do have a note written here um that says before I had their name straight high levels of sympathy for autistic fashionista. And then right under that is, but is the note where she explains that her mom has Asperger's, and it's just me writing the word,

hmm. You know what? I literally did the same thing of my notes. Literally, like in the first like 10 minutes of the episode, I wrote a note that says, that says Jenna has strong autism vibes in parentheses complimentary. Yes, yeah, that's what I mean. And then later on,

when she talks about her mom by Gaspers, Asperger's, it, like, it made it a lot more significant and deeper. Like, I guess what I mean when I say that it's not like in like a medical diagnosis sense, it's just that she's got this very compelling combination of like assured confidence while also being like really insecure at the same time, like somehow simultaneously very insecure and very confident in a way that like to me reads as like autism vibes in like in a compelling, interesting way that I like. And, and then.

when you see her as somebody who is the child of somebody who had autism that wasn't, like, diagnosed at the time and that the way that she really struggled with a childhood because of that, and then you imagine her, like, being afraid of that part of herself too because she doesn't want to be somebody who doesn't care. The way that she saw her mother as being somebody who doesn't care. And that is just one of the many things that feed into this portrait we get of Jen and this episode, which is a very rich one. Like, we really get to see her, we got to see a lot of her for like, you know, one single episode that's like really really interesting.

Yeah, you get a lot of like stuff with her mom and like her like kind of being forced to come out. And like all in like a few scenes, you get so much of Jenna. Yeah. And the way that she discusses, discovering that she's gay as an adult, uh,

was really fascinating to me. Like really just like an interesting conversation of like the, uh, the way somebody deals with their own sexuality and, and just like how like, how way more complex those kind of, things are than we generally think they are. It was just like a really, really interesting conversation to me. Yeah, totally. And I, I love how open and openly she like wears her wounds

from everything. Like when there's, there's, I think it's like a flashback clip where they're talking about when her, her mother passed away shortly after her mother pathway. And I think it might have been Jessel or her mother was like, oh, were you guys close? And she's like, no, not at all. And like, just like really like presenting these, these, uh, battle scars that she's got very openly. And I really appreciate that within a reality star. And I thought it was interesting the contrast that we get because at the dinner, she talks about how she is seeing someone that she, it seems serious, but she doesn't want to bring them on the show, which is very, very uncommon for someone who is a full like a full like apple holder or whatever they they hold on any of the other

franchises to not show their their partner that part of their home life is very uncommon but you know I can't really fault Jenna for not because she's giving us like so much of herself on this in these first two episodes at least that I don't feel like I'm only getting you know half of the picture I feel like we're getting you know a very full picture of Gena Lines yeah and as somebody who was again like

publicly outed basically against her will you could understand why she would be a little cagey about these things well also wanting to be a reality TV star which is a great duality of her persona. Yeah. And I really, like, I thought the story of, that she told about how she was outed and how she, like, you know, the words just came out of her mouth where she confirmed it to the post. I thought that that was a, like, I don't know, I thought it was very interesting.

And, like, I thought the way she told that story was, like, there was great tension in it. And it was just compelling. and I don't know just just a great story. Totally. Totally. Oh, my other like little highlights, when they go to the restaurant and Uber has to face north or face away from North, whatever it is,

there's two amazing things. She's just moss. She's literally moss. Because it's true north. That's her whole explanation. But the two little amazing things that stand out to me is, I don't know who, but someone's like, oh, like is that Mecca?

Like, what? And then the other one, I don't remember who, but it might be in a confessional and someone's like, of course, Uber's going to bring a compass to the restaurant. No, she brought her phone. It's not like, oh, the weirdo brought a compass. She brought an eye to the restaurant. Yeah, and she's like, I have a compass on my phone. I'm like, I have an iPhone five and has a compass on it.

Like, it's not the new thing. Yeah. Any other highlight, Sean? Um, oh, I do like, uh, I really appreciate the, the spirit of, um, is it Jussel? Um, teasing for next time. Because it's new season, they don't have, there's not like a rich backstory of dramas. So in the tease where they're like creating the drama, um, just really love the like, the fighting spirit to go out there and create that about the, you know, the Grinch Christmas

tree lingerie. Yeah. Okay. You know what? In Jessel's defense, that was a. a terrible fit for her and looked bad at her. I agree. No, I totally agree. It was a bad choice. Yeah.

Like, I, because I see like they're trying to make it out to a thing like she's being a bitch to Jedda. Okay, I get it. But also, it did look really bad at her. It was poorly picked for her. She got the worst one. Yeah. You could see, you could see how it like completely changed her posture when she put it on. Like, she's like hunched over and like

so insecure and like feeling awful about it. I felt bad for her, but I'm very excited to see what sort of conflict this creates. Yeah. And also to like spend the, the whole episode being like, ha,

ha, you don't fuck your husband, and then give her, like, the flock of lingerie. Yeah, exactly. Kind of mean.

Here's your cloak. Yeah. Maybe your husband will fuck you if he doesn't have to look at any of your skin. Yeah, which is true. When she's talking about,

like, she's insecure about her caesarian scar, and they're like, maybe you could cover it up. Like, is that the best answer? Maybe you can wear a shroud with a hole in it. Okay, guys, come on.

Okay, we need to reboot this series again. Yeah. Dylan, what were your highlights from this? I don't believe the caviar caterers are real professional caviar caterers. I don't believe that exists. She's the caviar mermaid, actually. and she was on Watch What Happens Live. Yeah.

Wait, why is she a mermaid? Is she, are her her own eggs? Ooh. His color be intrigued. If we post this on Instagram, she's going to have to rebrand. That's awful. I thought those were just like two kids from the neighborhood that she'd hired to go get Pringles at the corner store, at provisions.

I assume that there are two people who, like, just put out a bunch of, like, bullshit, like, Craigslist ads waiting to get any hit, just being like, yeah, we're the Foisra specialist, if you want to answer this ad. They're actually, like, performance artists. Yeah. And then whenever somebody answers to them, they'll be like, okay, yeah, sure, we'll get a couple of fins from the store and show up and, like, and just talk some bumbo-jumbo's. it would be like, yeah, we picked up a tube of Pringles, so this is a thing.

It's literally just caviar on pringles and caviar on like cucumbers and maybe some cream cheese or something. Yeah, which I mean, caviar is great. So I guess you can put it on a lot of things. But it's like a coffee, a professional caviar consultant. Is that really? I'll let it slide. I'll let it slide. Do you know what a ghost kitchen is?

Like on the delivery services? Okay. Yeah. So maybe it's like that except, you know, But like that's like, fleecing rich people in the Hamptons. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Okay, actually, I do.

I've changed my mind. I love them. Yeah. You know what? And I do think caviar is great. I love caviar. But I do think it's really funny to be like in somebody's house and you're really hungry. And they're just like, we only have caviar on individual prinkles.

Yeah. Eat as much as you like. But that's the only thing you can eat. Yeah. That's just really funny. Got it on regular. and Dill Pickle. Oh, that's the one thing I don't like much about Jenna

is her aversion to Dill. Yeah, me too. The only thing about Jenna that's not related. See it to be fucking face, Jenna. Other than that, I would just like... A few more highlights from Uba being the most bizarre. serial weirdo. She very briefly said that she smoked weed once and ended up in the hospital.

Yeah. What were you doing? What are you doing so wrong? Doesn't she say it like, I smoked weed once? No, hospital or something to that effect. Yeah. She says something about like how they used to tell the time back of the day. And she's like, they used to use the sun.

They'd lick a finger and hold. it up. Like, girl, what? Those are two different things. You can still, you can still use the sun to tell you what time of day it is. Yeah. Just look up a finger and hold it up. Or if you want to know where north is, you can like use the sun.

There's a very brief clip of here near the end, eating an orange and the most fucked up way I've ever seen somebody eating an orange. I don't know if you noticed it. It was like a second long, but she's colding like half an orange and smushing it and like pouring the juice and pulp into her mouth, which is just very strange. Yeah. Yeah, that's about it. Oh, oh, yes, all the shots of women slurping oysters while Jen is talking about discovering

that she's gay. It's also good work. Yeah. Oh, it's also, it's a really refreshing to have, sorry to interject, but. to have a housewives universe with two people who don't drink. Because I feel like these shows run on alcohol. Yeah, that's true. I think it's becoming a little bit more common.

Like, we're seeing at least one person that is sober on most of these casts because they've got like a history of alcohol and that's kind of got them where they are. But yeah, that was noticeable for sure. Did you guys have any other highlights here? No covers it for me. Yeah, I think that about covers most of what I wanted to talk about. I did want to circle back to Jessel mentioning that she hadn't had sex in like two years. I'm curious as to what you think about, you know, if this cast was not like a cast of pure rookies,

if this would play out any differently than it has. Like I feel like here it is, you know, it's notable. It's making for an episode of content, but I get the sense that it's going to be mostly dropped and not discussed again. But if this was a cast with, you know, if Jessel was the only rookie on the cast, I feel like that is going directly into someone's back. pocket to make a big deal of in order to, you know, use in some way, whether it's a deflection

from some of their own shit or, you know, if they need something to really like make a deep cut on Jessel for. Yeah, I can see that coming up again. I think you shouldn't underestimate the possibility that comes, that comes up again at a feud. That and the fact that Jessel apparently was just like, you know, eventually married her roommate. which is that's far more damaging. Yeah,

exactly. For me, that's the bigger indictment that like he was just there long enough that eventually her parents were like, well,

you know what, you might as well. And she was like, okay. Good enough. I wonder why they're not fucking. This is a rough episode. This is a rough episode

for Jassel because we also had a scene where Jenna, like, calls out her fashion choice. She calls her, like, a fashion victim. She was wearing two Brad names on her at the same time. Even I know. She's a fashion influence.

Yeah. She's a fashion influencer or something like that. Yeah. As Jenna says, like, she's a fashion influencer. Yeah, it was a, Jenna got, or Jessel got her licks in this episode for sure. Well, yeah. I'm excited to see how she responds because I do think that she is, like, a pretty,

just likable, she has a very likable personality. So I want to see her rebound from this and make some ways. Overall, I think this is a very likable cast for the most part. You know, everyone seems fun and engaging. So excited to see what comes. Yeah. In this episode, it's like Aaron is like the closest thing to a villain or a heel, but just kind of reaching.

create some drama and we'll still find Yeah totally Before we close things out here I want to try a new segment At the end of our shows Where we identify something that is Hunky Dory and something else that should rot in hell It can be multiple things or it can be one thing

We'll just kind of go around the horn Dylan We'll start with you Do you have anything that is Hunky Dory or can Rottinnell? Jenna's vintage Mercedes is Hunky Dory as far as I'm concerned. I'm not necessarily a car guy by any means, but that was pretty slick vintage Mercedes that I really liked. And I really like that she follows it up with stepping out of it

wearing the worst fucking jeans I've ever seen, which I assume is some sort of a statured. So I'll give her remarks for that, I guess. Totally. Who is Hunky Dory? Yeah, agreed. Jenna Lyons is hunky-dory, or her car is very hunky-dory. And she is too.

Just a great showing from her in all ways. Sean, how about yourself? Well, I do have to say Pringles and Caviar does seem like a hunky-dory combination to me. So I do have to shout out the, like, expensive stoner food. Oh, very, very hunky-dory. This is just an excuse for me to play these clips. By the way, like, it doesn't have to be related to Bravo at all what you pick. If it's just something else that you want to plug or something else that you want to, like, gripe about,

it can be that. A quick rod in hell to the AMPTP and the Universal Executives who apparently trimmed the shade trees. Yeah. Out from over the pictures. Rod in hell. Roy hair. Why'd they come on cockney? I just wish I was Brittany.

And you know, I think they got fined like $250 for that or something, which is, there's another rotten hell about it from the city of Los Angeles. Yeah, for sure. That'll stop them. I've got a few things written down here. So first off... We're going to be here for an hour. I got a lot of problems to you people.

first off Lance Bass is hunky dory Who is hunky dory So Just in general So I was Yeah well yeah sure Just in general

But I was I got like a notification on Instagram That Lisa Vanderpump was going live Which is something that like Has never happened to my knowledge So I like jumped on And it was actually Lance Bass He was showing Lisa and Ken

How to like go on Instagram live and it was like showing your parents how to use the app. It was really amazing. So he is hunky-dory. He's probably going to get accused of putting a virus on their computer for doing that if he's anything like my parents. The other thing that is hunky-dory, Bethany Franklin

Hunky Dory. She is advocating for a reality TV star union which is something that we talked about on a past episode that we had with Comrade Britt of Soytrack glad to see her

speaking out about this because it's definitely something that I think would be beneficial. You know offer these people the protections that they deserve. We're seeing the impact that a union can have within Hollywood and you know, the reality TV industry definitely needs this. So it's awesome to see. There has been a little bit of like blowback against Bethany because on some of the reality

shows that she produced, she had contracts that were, you know, not exactly the most, you know, worker friendly. And yeah, I think that, you know, she deserves to be held accountable. But also I feel like the fact that she doesn't, you know, pass a, you know, a purity test that shouldn't undermine the fact that, you know, this is what she's advocating for now. It is, it is important that this gets established. And, you know, I don't think that we should be looking for ways to, um, undermine the movement just because one of the loudest voices is, you know, that doesn't pass

that purity test. Like, yes, hold them accountable, but also like, you know, let's leverage the platform that they have and work towards, you know, creating better conditions for the workers. So Bethany Frankel, her work is hunky dory for me. people that are trying to undermine the labor movement can rot. Totally. And, you know, when the writer's strike started, like you mentioned, Craig, we had a couple episodes where we discussed it in the way that reality TV has kind of a noxious history as being used as a strike breaker form of television for that.

But the other side of that is that now that we've got an actor's strike going on, the reality TV performers typically aren't, uh, are part of saying they aren't part of the actors unions either. And that's something that needs to change. And they need to be recognized, uh, as you needized actors and potentially as unionized what writers if, uh, if, you know, if nobody else in the show is going to be, to be getting those, those credits and maybe the performers themselves should be

getting the writers credits. And, uh, there should be a, and, uh, the best way for reality TV to like overcome, uh, its stigma is being like, anti-labor television is for the people within the industry to work hard to unionize their sector of the industry is as untraditional and difficult as

it might be. And if Bethany is leading the charge, more power to her. That's awesome. Yeah, totally. The last thing is, who is Honky Dory, Raquel, or Rachel, sorry, she prefers to go by Rachel now officially.

So, I prefer to call her Rekween. She's always Rocky, the fighter for me. But she is hunky-dory for, in my opinion, making the difficult choice to surrender her dog to a trainer with 40 years experience to try to avoid, you know, Graham being euthanized after biting her mom. This would have been a very difficult decision to make And there are people that are, you know, twisting this and manipulating it to make it seem like this is puppy gate 2.0. Like we've got another Lucy Lucy apple juice situation here. Because apparently during the Vanderpump rules cast trip in Tahoe last week, Lisa Vanderpump found out that Graham had a

in one way or another, ended up in a shelter and brought him to James. And now James has custody of Graham and has rebranded him as hippie, the dog. He's no longer, he's no longer Graham's name. Graham's like such a good dog name. It is. But so the reports on this were very, seemed very biased because it was like, James was reunited with Graham in Tahoe. and according to our source, he is in puppy lessons and they're already working and curing his biting.

It's like, how did he cure aggression in a dog in, you know, a matter of days while he's on vacation in Tahoe? There's no way that that is true. You're overlooking just how much of a calm, level-headed presence, James County is. But actually, if you have a dog, with aggression. Like, you know, that is a journey in order to try to, uh, remediate and, you know, build trust with the dog and, and try to like temper it and get to a point where a dog is no longer, you know,

uh, aggressive. And so there's no way that after a few days while on vacation that Graham is fine. Like he didn't just need to chill out in Tahoe and crush some Coors light with, uh, I think that would work for me. But, yeah, the people that are making this out to be Puppiegate 2.0 and using it as a way to, like, further bully Raquel, I think they can, they can rot in hell. Sure. I know nothing about it, but I co-sided it. All right.

Thank you so much for doing this. This has been a blast, Sean. Do you want to let everyone know where they can find you? Um, you find me Sean's haircut on the internet. And I think coming very soon, you can find me on a podcast called The Devil You Don't, which I'm sure Dylan will mention something. Yeah, Dylan, let's hear about this. Yeah, I guess I should start promoting it eventually. I don't know when it'll prepare yet, but me and Sean earlier this evening where we're sitting down together in a recording session and I basically just like told him a whole bunch of details about a totally obscure like literary controversy. Hershey from Colonial New Jersey. And the best part is I'm going to brand it as a Cryptozoology podcast, guaranteeing that I'll piss off like 98% of everybody clicks on it. So keep your eyes at ears open for the devil you don't coming at some point soon, probably in a few weeks.

Awesome. Looking forward to that. That's been Bravo Outsider for this week. You can find us on Instagram at Bravo Outsider. We're on YouTube at Bravo Outsider. We're on Twitter at Bravo underscore Outsider. We're on threads. Oh, it's not, yeah, you're right, it is.

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