Oscars Outsider - Going for the MEGOT /w Ray Strachan (RHOA S15E03, BD:SY S04E07)

Episode Date: May 27, 2023

On this episode Craig and Dylan are joined by Ray Strachan from the  Ray & Benny Talk Sports podcast as they delve into the fascinating similarities between sports and reality TV. They explore the intriguing ways in which fandom interacts with these forms of entertainment, examining how fan influence shapes the decisions made by both athletes and reality TV personalities. Drawing parallels between reality TV fans and pro wrestling enthusiasts, they shed light on the phenomenon of falling in love with larger-than-life personas while remaining oblivious to the individuals behind those characters.  We also cover Real Housewives of Atlanta S15E05 and get our feet wet for the first time covering Below Deck: Sailing Yacht S04E07!   Find Ray & Benny Talk Sports: https://linktr.ee/Rayandbennytalksports  [https://linktr.ee/Rayandbennytalksports] Find Dylan on substack at https://dylanferguson.substack.com/  Music by FASSounds from Pixabay

Hello and welcome to the Bravo Outsider Podcast. I'm your host Craig Midwinter. With me, as always, is my co-host, Dylan Ferguson. Dylan Longtime, no, see. Yeah, it's been ages. Wow. Where did that beard come from? Oh, my God.

Have you been prospecting for the past 15 years? Jesus. In case you're looking for some coverage of the Vanderpump Rules reunion, we released a special episode with a panel of past outsiders yesterday covering part one of the reunion. So have a look back in your podcast feed or on YouTube for that. It was a real banger. It was a real banger. It was a ton of fun. And yeah, check it out.

Each week we bring on someone who doesn't follow Bravo to talk about the shows. And this week we're excited to have with us from Ray and Benny Talk Sports. It's Ray Strawn. I put the win in Winnipeg. somebody's got to do it is that bad no that was great that was fantastic

thank you for for coming here super pumped to have you on really excited for our roundtable discussion but before we get into it do you want to just let us know

kind of what your past experiences with reality TV yeah I don't really have any well I guess I do have some past experiences back in the day

in reality TV I think COPS was probably my first for a into reality TV. It's kind of funny because we're in the middle of this writer's guild strike and cops was like a result out of the strike in like 1988. It was something I loved. I love the action. I love like the way the camera was used. It was like the perspective of being in the chase.

So I really fell in love with cops. And I guess to this day I still love shows like the border shows or whatever. Oh yeah. Catch people or try and catch people at the border. I love those. And I think the last reality TV show that I was really into was last chance you. It was about football players playing in junior college and their pursuit of either getting to a higher university to get to the pros or even just getting an education. I was just enthralled with that because of my roots of sport. So last chance you. Oh yeah. Last reality TV show that was really into. Oh, it's interesting. You're the first person that has brought up cops. And that really is like that is like proto reality. That is like before the.

you know, the huge wave of reality hit, you know, the wake of the survivor and big brother in the 90s. Yeah, circa 2000. Yeah, most people immediately think of like the circa 2000, like reality TV or boom. But yeah, there's those shows that go back even earlier like cops that were like that kind of set the mold for it. So each week we try to do a roundtable discussion where we talk about some topic that is related and how it relates to reality TV.

Today, we wanted to talk about sports and how sports relates to reality TV. Dylan, this was one that you have been aching for. Do you want to lead us off with that? Yeah, I mean, look, I'm a big hockey guy, the NHL playoffs right now. I like the NBA playoffs too. So kind of I wanted to just shoehorn that in there. I want to talk about sports a bit. But I do think there's a lot of similarities.

is I mean, I think throughout our show, we've been making, we've been making sports metaphors, like, constantly. It feels like inevitable. I've definitely had at least, like, one hockey metaphor per episode. And I think Crank down a number of there, too. Like, it just, it feels like a natural way to compare it when you're talking about, like, the strategy used by the people in these shows. and the fact that they're like, they're performers. Like, you know, the cameras are on. The lights are on.

And then it's like, it's game time. And it's time to, to, you know, clash with each other. And somebody's going to come up on top and somebody's not. So I definitely like looking at it through that angle.

But the other thing that address me is the way that like, fandom interacts with the product. Yeah. You know, which is obviously. different than a fandom, like if you're a fan of Star Wars or Harry Potter or whatever, when it's just fictional media, but in both sports and in reality TV, you're talking about like actual people with actual lives.

So the way that that fandom kind of interacts with like influencing what they do and how they're like, they present themselves and the choices they make. I think that's something that's really interesting to me. because it's it's just become especially like in the internet age it's just like so uh, inextricable like just trying to separate the pure product like just like what they do when it's showtime with like what the fans want them to do and like and the fan perspective of like who's a good guy and who's a bad guy.

It just becomes like all muddled up now. Yeah. Totally. I like do you guys consider pro wrestling in sport? Sure. Yeah. Because like I've never heard of this. Con until I watched Real Housewives.

And it reminded me of like, wrestleCon or WrestleMania con and the type of fandom you get with the professional wrestling fans where they fall in love with these personas and they don't really know who they are. And there is a kind of gray area of good and bad in wrestling to you now. It's not as, you know, white and black, for lack of a better term, as it was back in the 80s. So I don't know if you guys saw that connection. But I love wrestling when I was young and I just immediately was reminded of that.

Yeah, for sure. And I think like the way that fans interact with the content, it is very similar to how people interact with it in sports. Like there's so much armchair quarterbacking, like that term that you see related to like anytime you're on Twitter watching a game on sports, you've got tons of people that are, you know, they're playing armchair quarterback or coach or like calling out what they think needs to happen. and how their team can get leverage. And that's something that you see constantly on Twitter and on Instagram when people are reacting to what happens on screen in the Housewife shows. Yeah, the term for that in Quebec where I live is Gerand Estad, which is like a bleacher manager.

Like all these people try to try to manage from up in the bleachers. But in like the Bravo shows, that's like it, sometimes you almost feel like they have to bend to the will of the fans. Like they have no choice. Like they have things like like you said, right, the BravoCon, which they talk about a lot in this episode of Atlanta that we're going to get around to.

Yeah. Because it just just happened and people are just coming back for a bit. It's like they like with in that sense, it's almost more like the fictional fandoms where they feel like they have to kind of show some deference to the fans as the people who are most invested in it. But that at the same time, you're also dealing with real people and you can't just tell them totally what to do with their lives. So it's like almost halfway between the two, like halfway between being like a fictional universe fandom and just being sports fandom. Well, once the cameras are rolling, they're going to do what they're going to do.

They are at the end of the day, real people. Yeah. Yeah. But also like I just get, I find that the fandoms are often just the worst part of anything. And that's also kind of gets a little exhausting to me too. You know, whether you're talking about movies or sports or reality TV, I get so exhausted with the way that the fandom discourse will just try to push everything into, like, we'll try to make things go back to being like black and white.

Like, there are good guys and there are bad guys. Whereas, like, the actual content itself would rather just be like the human experience. It's all over the place, right? Yeah. So I think that's why I often try to stay away. from the fandoms if I can, which isn't always possible. I think like you're right, like toxicity is like a huge part of, of fandoms. There's definitely a, I don't know what drives this, but people want to kind of engage in a very, like, toxic way with whatever they are following.

And, you know, we see that in the exact same way in both. sports and in in bravo like the the rumors that circulate throughout the fandoms within bravo like where right now the big one is people are speculating that you know raquel is is pregnant and that's like the rumor that's kind of circulating but you know if you follow sports like here in winnipeg there's been rumors that uh the locker room is is toxic in in the jets for the past years and that you know like uh wheeler and shifely are to blame for having this toxic environment that drove Patrick Linae away. And, you know, it's the exact same, like, way that these fandoms are operating.

And, you know, obviously it's going to have a negative impact on the people that are the subject of these rumors. Yeah, absolutely. And you see the same kind of pressure online in real life in sports that you do with these reality TV shows, I'd assume. Because there comes a certain point, especially if you look at a team like the Winnipeg Blue Bombers who are community owned, where they do, I guess, answer more to the fans, where that pressure from the fans, you know, fire Mike Kelly or whatever it was, or trade,

whoever, you know, it becomes a problem within the fandom or the fan nation. And I do feel that like a lot of teams or people in managing your positions, do you feel that pressure and sometimes do react either pro or con to what the fandom is saying or up in arms about. Yeah, and I think in both cases it's like a double-edged sword because there are, you know, obviously people that are using the fandom to their benefit and wielding it like a sword. The sports teams obviously benefit hugely from having a strong fan presence in terms of the momentum that it generates within a building when they're playing. you know, when there's a large away contingent in an arena supporting a team, it makes a noticeable impact on the dynamics of a game in a lot of cases, especially like in hockey you see it a lot.

And reality stars, they wield this fandom in the exact same way. Like they know how to like dog whistle and hype out. their followers in order to get them into a frenzy to attack another housewife online in order to kind of adjust the narrative. And, you know, we often see like social media play out within housewives more and more frequently lately. The sort of the meta housewife game shows up where there is like fan interaction that, you know, that does dictate the, events that happen on on screen like um yeah it's uh it's it's it's interesting because you you know you live by the sword and you die by the sword yeah no totally got nothing to add to that

that's that's basically what i had to say and they're athletes you yeah sorry go ahead go ahead no no no you go ahead there are athletes who do the same thing like ever since Antonio brown has fallen from grace like it's his approach in use with social media that's totally tanked the guy in his career and now he's a pariah and still using social media and trying to get get back in. It's just a weird thing of how some people like athletes are still always used that and try to take advantage of fandom or fandom. Yeah. Actually, that's a really interesting example because I think there are a lot of hostwives that fall into that exact same pattern where they were worse, where they started

off as, you know, a personality on screen like, you know, Antonio Brown was a player on on the field and, you know, and then transition to being like an agent of the fandom, where they, you know, they're no longer playing on the field, but they are still very active and maybe more so active in the fan base and in the comment section, you know, doing their own podcasts and really kind of trying to drive, using their platform to drive, to drive. the fandom in specific in specific ways i mean you see former housewives with very popular uh podcasts go on and you know they've got a huge platform to articulate the articulate their views and like and steer the narrative and i think one big example of that is uh tamara and teddy from

uh beverly hills and orange county uh former housewives that that start started a, like, a hugely popular podcast. It is, like, really good. It's probably one of the better Bravo podcasts that are out there, uh, maybe second only to us. Um, yeah, but they have continued to build an audience. They have, you know, they have had a major impact on, you know,

how fans are engaging. Like, they're weighing in on drama. Um, we saw them weigh in on, uh, the drama with, with Teresa earlier this season. Now Tamara is returning to Orange County after having built this audience. It'll be interesting to see how that plays out when she returns to the field, as they say. Did either of you guys have any more anything to add on the discussion on fandom? Not really. I just, I guess what to say, just to kind of sub up my thoughts is that I do think it's actually like awesome that fandoms provide this like sense of community for so many people.

I'm fans of a lot of things. I'm fans of the Montreal Canadiens. I got my shirt on, you know, I love Vanderpump rules and stuff. And I think it's awesome to have groups of people that have a collective interest. It just makes me uneasy the way that they become like schools of fish sometimes at a certain point. And it's like everybody just starts turning in the same direction. And then you have the risk of it being like toxic behavior where somebody's being targeted.

And people are forgetting that it's somebody's real life that you're dealing with when they're getting a bunch of harassment. And that's kind of just the summary of how I feel about it. It's good that it exists. Too bad that it always seems to end up being. toxic. It is like, it is tons of fun and it is like, it is amazing to feel like you

said, that sense of community that you get from participating in a fandom. I'm always constantly resisting the urge to talk about Big Brother on this podcast, but I'm going to just because I think that there's a very... You rarely resist that urge. I'm always looking for an opportunity to talk

about Big Brother. But Big Brother has a very, like, strong, dedicated fan base. And I think that is a result of just having this really, like, great community experience similar to sports where there is like an event, like a live event that is happening. Because fans are sitting there watching on the feed, watching it live and reacting to something in real time. And yeah, I think that that really helps drive. and build a fan base to have this communal experience. And that's why it's so fun when you're watching, like,

real housewives and, you know, participating in one of the live discussion threads on Reddit or engaging on Twitter while something's happening in real time, just feeling the, like, the waves and the momentum shift within a fandom while something is playing out on screen. Yeah. It is like there's, there's something that is just really amazing about that. that that you don't you're not able to get in a lot of other forms of media that don't happen

that aren't like scheduled and aren't aren't live yeah yeah for sure yeah it's the same thing as like you're watching the match and then it goes to commercial break and you open your twitter feed if you're a Twitter person and you know see what all the people that you follow who also like your team are saying about like that sketchy call that just happened or whatever like it's cool to feel like immersed in that constant conversation even if you're just sitting at home or having a beer and watching the game, you're still surrounded by all these fans at the same time. So don't mean to denigrate that experience

because that's awesome. That's one of the fun things about it. Yeah, absolutely. All right, well, let's jump into our episodes for this week. So there's only one Housewife show that is airing right now until OC premieres in two weeks. So we've picked up Real Housewives of Atlanta and Below Deck sailing yacht that we're going to talk about.

Let's start with Real Housewives of Atlanta. Ray, what were your first opinions on Real Housewives of Atlanta? Any characters stand out? Did it kind of meet your expectations of what you thought a Real Housewives show was going to be like? It totally meant my expectations. I was really, really drawn to candy. Oh, yeah. It's like that's someone I can see Viola Davis.

For me, as also being an actor and being involved, in TV and film. I make these connections with actors that I see playing these people. And I just see Viola Davis with that intensity and putting it all in the table. And I really fell in love with candy. So yeah, I don't know. I don't want to, you want me tell you all about what I thought about the show or just a little touch. Because, you know, I might actually watch another episode. Because I'm not totally into reality TV. but just the little bits I have and the, I don't know, I just want to know more now because I got a little taste and there's so many connections that I'm missing and so many backstories that I don't know. So now I'm a little intrigued. So thanks, guys. That's great. Yeah, that's awesome to hear. And I agree, Candy is like such a magnetic personality on the show. There's a reason she's been on the show for so long. I love. that we see not only her kind of expose her like personal life and and the challenges she's

like very transparent in in that regard which is like a must in a in a good housewife but she's always got both a strong like social storyline with like how she interacts with the other housewives and she has like a professional storyline that is like very compelling because she's so driven to build her restaurant empire. And we see that she is like, you know, she wants that egot. And, you know, I feel like she'll get it. Like she could get it.

I mean, it's extremely ambitious. What are there like 14 people who have that or something? Like, that's, uh, yeah, I mean, she's got the, she's got the G. She's got the tea lockdown. That's what's one for four. Though, you know what? She's nominated for the tea.

Yeah, that, that's right. The, the, the Tony Awards are being held in June. I think. Oh, yeah, she's a producer. That's right. She's nominated for that play. She's producing. So she could end up with the G and a T.

But. And then, you know, why not adapt it to an Oscar winning film after that? That seems like a script. I feel like the O is going to be the one that's going to be really hard to chase. But, you know, and you might be more or more realistic there. I want to see a housewife get an Emmy. I think that Housewives deserves an Emmy. I feel like, you know, I feel like Housewives and Bravo reality shows have produced a quality, like, a quality, a level of quality in the content that is deserving of an Emmy.

And I don't think they need to establish even a new award category for reality TV, although maybe they should. But I want to see, like, I want to see this past season of Vanderpump rules go up against succession and win. because it was amazing. But I feel like, you know, I feel like it's a matter of time. I feel like it's a matter of time and the effort. We need like someone strongly campaigning for an Emmy nomination for for Housewives or Bravo in general. If it happened, I think they would need to make new categories because people just wouldn't accept blurring the lines between reality and scripted performance. I think for the same award.

I just don't see that like the unions would be okay with that. Yeah. I agree. I agree. Can I ask a question then? Because, you know, I'm a first timer to this with candy. And there was this thing about her hiding her,

you know, this violent thing that happened in her ability to be able to hold this. Is that a pattern of her behavior all the way through? Because you mentioned that she's been in seasons past. She's like one of the longest raining ones. Is she one of those OGs that gets to hold her secrets down? No one knows about. and she's holding a lot down?

I was very intrigued by that. Yeah. So she doesn't seem to have a huge history of, like, keeping things, you know, behind a curtain. Like, you see a lot of other housewives. She's typically pretty open. I think in general, when a housewife has, like, a successful business, they are, you know, they're going to try to protect it as much as possible. So this wasn't really surprising.

And I didn't feel like, oh, there's, there's candy hiding something again. That wasn't like how I instinctively reacted. And I didn't even see any response like that online. So I feel like it's pretty atypical of her to be hiding something like that. And I think that, you know, she does have a variety of good reasons to be trying to hide something like that. Sure. I mean, she's trying to protect her business for sure. That's understandable. Though I do think it was kind of a bad look for her when we got kind of the flashback at the end where Marlowe was talking about her nephew. And Candy just didn't seem to react with the appropriate

level of, you know, sympathy and dignity for what happened. It's understandable. She doesn't want to talk about shootings that happened at her restaurant on the show because it's, you know, that's a business that she's running and you've got to look out for your business interest. But in that conversation with Marlowe, I think that was a bad look for her. I love Candy too. I think she's great. But I think in that moment that definitely showed her in a kind of a bad light where you kind of felt like maybe she was thinking about her business more than she was thinking about the human side of things in that moment. Yeah.

And I think it's not just her business that she's trying to protect. like I think also like all these housewives they receive a lot from being a hostwife like in terms of the platform that they're getting. Yeah. And the profile that the show has. I think there's also, you know, a she's also trying to, you know, protect the reputation of the show. And we see her image being attacked for in other ways by. what's the new girl's name? Courtney?

Courtney, yeah. Yeah, we see Courtney like... That's my reaction to it. We see Courtney like calling her ghetto. And so I feel like that's not something that, you know, that's not the image that she wants for herself or the show. So there's some of that protectionism as well. Yeah, for sure.

Also, you know what? I just, I think I'm pretty sure that Candy. won a season of the Masked singer. So I don't know if you can swap in like an M for one of those. Like these are O's, maybe that makes a little more attainable. You just have to tack it on. Yeah. It's a me got.

Yeah. Did you have any particular highlights, Ray, from this? Well, Drew's performance, or lack thereof. All three syllables of it. And the nastiness of that. I don't know. Yeah, that's what really came out to me. And, oh, what's Mama Joyce?

Oh, yeah. You know, I've never seen the show before. So I've been introduced to all these characters. But Mama Joyce, something about her realness. And I want to get to know Mama Joyce more. I don't know if she actually appears in the show or she's just on tour for these Bravo cons. but I love Mama Joyce.

Yeah, that's, that's Candace's mom. And she is a lot more present in, like, earlier seasons of Atlanta. I want to get back to what you're mentioning about Drew's performance. I thought that this was, like, a definite highlight for me. I really love that we got this, like, contrast from, you know, Drew kind of tepidly engaging in trying to have a music career, juxtapose against like Candice who is like definitely taking it a bit more seriously and um i mean it's not exactly like she's making ways but she is out there like grinding it out like she's out

touring her thing uh and she's really like pushing it she's actually like taking it seriously whereas drew feels like she's like throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks because last season we saw her try to like start up a like a fitness thing like drop it with Drew or something like that. And it was very like just like half ass attempt. And we're seeing that with her like her music, just like not taking it seriously, getting on stage and woo-wooing a few times.

Really hilarious. Well, it's because Ralph needs to push the song, right? Yeah. I like the moment where she's talking to Ralph. And they seem to be getting along really well so far this season from what we can see. But there's that just that moment where she says, when they're discussing about it, like doing okay. stuff and Drew says to him like well you need to push the song you need to get it out there

and you just kind of see Ralph's jaw muscles move a little bit like I'm not going to get into it with you right now but I don't sure I appreciate you pushing me like that yeah Ralph just comes across as like such an asshole like he just uh I really loved in that same conversation when they started talking about BravoCon where he was like someone came up to me at BravoCon and asked him to gas him to gas at Light them. Gaslight me. Yeah, you have the clip of it.

Yeah, you have the clip of somebody saying, Gaslight me, really? So, yeah, I don't know why anybody would think these bad bases are toxic. Yeah. Like, how do they, did the people just apply to be these housewives? Yeah. So there's a variety.

How do you stay on for so long? Just so I get the break, like, I'm cluelessing to that. Yeah. So you get on through like your cast through a number of ways. So they will often try to get someone that has some sort of connection to another housewife. So that's usually an inn, even if you don't like really know someone, if they kind of like know your name.

I think the most that we saw on screen that kind of hinted at the actual process of this was, I think it might have been discussed on an ultimate girl's trip or something like that, but when Bethany left Real Housewives of New York, she gave a list of potential replacements for her and Leah was on. So you typically will either get completely picked up by the production companies like casting or you'll kind of be referred and then do your audition and whatever, that's how you get on. And then often you won't know whether you're an actual full-blown housewife or the tier below that, which is called a friend of.

And in that case, you don't get like a full storyline, which is what, like, Courtney is right now. That's what I was wondering about. Like, if, like, she is just a flight, like, she so happened to be on the show, like strategically she's on there. That's what I was wondering about. She's on the entry-level contract. She's on the two-way.

Thank you, yes. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So if your performance like kind of like lives up, then, uh, you might start out of the gate like as a, as a new housewife or you might, you know, get promoted the next season. And there could be a variety of other things that aren't necessarily performance related that caused you to be a friend of in your first season. Like we saw that with Sutton on real housewives of Beverly Hills. She was a friend of on her first year, but she was still very active in. in the drama. Like, she had a performance that was worthy of being a diamond holder is what they're called in real housewives of Beverly Hills. But she was in the midst of a divorce and her husband didn't want her like her kids on air. So they couldn't actually show her like personal story during that. So that there's things like that that couldn't prevent you from being a full time housewife. And then from there, once you've got your diamond in Beverly Hills or your peach in Atlanta, then it all comes out to performance. And whether you're able to like keep up and, you know, engage socially, bring something to the table, like stir up shit, have a compelling story.

And how fans respond to you does like play into that to a degree. But it's not the only thing because, you know, the producers are smart. They know that you need villains. You need people that are hated by fans that are able to get shit done and agitate things. So you do see people that are able to, you know, just play a pure villain role. They don't give a shit what fans say and are just very effective housewives as a result. You need a Ryan Reeves, eh? You need a Ryan Reeves.

Yeah. Oh, you definitely do. And that's, I think, helps explain why you see somebody like Courtney, who like I said is like a first year call up, trying to start shit all the time because she's like, yeah, she's like the call up who's trying to fight everybody because she wants the coach to be like, yeah, we need this one. Yeah, we need that person to get in the scrums to get dirty, you know.

Yeah. She's trying to prove that she has what it takes to be part of the show by like getting involved with everybody becoming the center of attention. Yeah, and she's going after that OG candy. She's going after like the top dog. Yeah. Getting under his skin, eh? Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, yeah. Like a classic notice me first year move. I'm going to fight a lot. superstar. I'm going to see if I can get Alex Oveske to drop the gloves totally. Then I'll get on every highlight reel and then we'll see if coach likes me. Yeah, right on.

Yeah, I'm going to say Sidney Crosby is my cousin. That's right. That's right. Did you have any other highlights, Ray? I kind of like the the weird date montage with Drew and Ralph. Oh, yeah. Like, y'all were just talking about Ralph and kind of like,

but I find that relationship kind of weird. Oh, yeah. I don't know how solid that rock is. And I know they're divorced now. So. Oh, see? I didn't get that information in the show. I thought they're like trying to move forward-ish.

Yeah. But, oh, so yeah. Yeah. Maybe that's why I felt kind of weird. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I had a note about that too, how they're really trying to sell this like happy marriage story. Like, and they were kind of under the microscope last season, just because Ralph was gaslighting Drew all season about what, you know, what he was doing when he was taking trips for like a week and not telling her just disappearing. So it's not surprising to see them have some sort of response to them.

that, but they are really trying hard to sell this happy marriage. And this date was so weird, like right down to Drew, like rock climbing in a blazer or whatever it was that she was wearing, it was not like, not rock climbing attire in my mind. Yeah, I like the girls behind the counter at the rock climbing place being like, yeah, you're right. Your shoes are cute, but you might want to go with the rentals. Absolutely. Dylan, what were your highlights from this episode? You know, I did think it got really interested near the end.

First, when we have most of the girls together, like kind of talking about various things. You feel like we're finally starting to see what might be some of the storylines moving forward for the rest of the season. You know, we're still on season three. We're still kind of trying to figure out what the big storylines are going to be that are going to continue on. But then even after that, you know, when it got. it got kind of real when you had Marlowe's, you know, really, you know, her trauma, her struggling to deal with losing a nephew to violence and just kind of being uncomfortable with the way it intersects with the show and like with, and with, with, with Candy's

business and stuff and just kind of struggling to see like how this, how this fits in. And like, and I really thought it was really interesting those kind of conversations about like, what's the appropriate way to talk about this in a way that's like respectful. And, and, and, I thought it's really moving to see how Marla was like, Marlowe was really struggling with that. And, and I was trying to understand like what kind of set her off, you know, and it seemed like she didn't really like the way that, you know, the way that, you know, the way that like, Drew was bringing it up in an insinuating way without like just, I think she didn't like that

didn't say the word shooting, that she brought it up, but wouldn't say the word, that she wasn't being clear that she was being like too like insinuating. She was just kind of like twisting around it rather than like either avoiding it outright or talking about it directly. And I feel like that's kind of what set Marlow off. And I thought that was really interesting to be as like seeing how she's trying to deal with something that's very real in this like social group that's often talking about things which are like pseudo real. Yeah. I think like, I think that that definitely played into it. I got a more like tactical read on it.

I felt like she was lashing out at Drew because, you know, she didn't have enough to lash out at candy for. That's where her real kind of like beef and friction is. But she was obviously like really worked up and really like truly hurting about it. And I think she needed an outlet for that. And, you know, there was enough there to go after Drew for. And it probably felt safe enough to do that because she knew that Drew is not in a position to come after her over it. I think, like, you know, Drew does not have the kind of social capital to use this to fuel of like a season long beef and conflict.

So I thought that there was like some, I thought that that anger was, you know, it was for Candy. She just directed it at Drew. Yeah, yeah, I can see that because it's hard to like straight up say what Candy did wrong in a clear way that wouldn't, that would like hit that that Candy wouldn't just be able to kind of like deflect and be like, you know, I'm not really sure what you're upset about it. Or just create like ammunition for Candy. Exactly. because Candy is at a very strong, like, entrenched position. So, yeah, I think maybe a lot of Marlowe's frustration is directed at Candy, but just kind of needs a different way to express it right now.

Yeah. And I felt like some contrast between how Marlowe, who is very experienced on this show, this is only her, like, second season as a peach holder. But for many seasons prior, she was a friend of the. cast. So she's like, she's way more experience than her record might, might suggest. I, I thought we saw her, like, her keen understanding of, like, the Housewife game on display by, you know, by venting on Drew here as opposed to Candy, whereas it kind of contrasts how Courtney, who is a complete rookie coming in, is approaching her, like, effort to stake her claim on, on this show by

coming out and attacking Candy right away. And just kind of reading into the fact that Courtney doesn't have a peach this season, I feel like Candy is very quickly going to be able to brush this off and move past.

I feel like this is an attack that is not going to land. And I think we saw in the confrontation between Candy and Courtney at the end just Candy was just so skillful. at hand like handling

uh handling Courtney and uh had had the backup had the like upper hand um we can see that she's just able to like brush this off and she's her experience is showing she can move past this and you know Courtney is if this is all that Courtney is able to use to like grab a hold of like this is the only rock hold that she has she's going to fall off the wall it's worse than having bad shoes like Drew. Yeah.

No, Courtney's going to get chewed up, I think, and I hope so, because she's annoying. Honestly, she's just, she's just annoying.

Looking forward to seeing it. She's horrible. Even her voice alone. God, dang, that's annoying. Yeah, yeah.

I said that when she first showed up in the first episode, that like, when she just, like, the first thing we hear out of her mouth, when she shows up

is just that, hey, that goes on for like, it seems like three hours. Yeah. And I think maybe that's why Candy appeals to me to just her look on her face and whenever this person is in the room is like, oh my. Or the phone call when she had her on FaceTime or whatever is. And she saw Courtney.

Right. When we also got, we got the rare audio only flashback because the first time Courtney confronted Candy in episode one. And Candy was losing her patience and said, I'm going to headbut this bitch. Yeah. And then we got the moment where like, where like Drew was calling up Courtney on the phone. and the editors give us just a shot of Courtney's face with just the like reverberated audio of the Tandy Singh, I'm going to head fuck this bitch.

That was so funny. Now I have to go back. Can I ask, is Sheree not showing up at that performance? Is that a big deal or is that just par for the chorus? Just because I don't know these characters well. Yeah, it's not like, You know, that would be like that would be like a tactical decision on her on her part. I think there's a few things that would have entered into her decision to do that.

I think Drew is not coming from a position of strength this season. So I think she knows that, you know, Drew is not really going to do anything about it. Or maybe she's even playing like, 3D chess and is like this will maybe give Drew something to like engage with me on or like she doesn't necessarily have a huge beef either so maybe that she's thinking this could be a point of conflict that we can like we can have um and yeah so I I think that it was there was like some there was some foresight in her decision not to not to go to this uh it doesn't seem like it'll be a big deal but it could be you know a brick in the wall sort of thing i got you i got you

yeah i'm a little disappointed we didn't get more of martel uh sherees beau who's uh who's apparently got quite a reputation on another tv show he's on uh love and marriage huntsville i think uh on a different network. It's not like the Oprah Winfrey network. It's, gosh. But apparently he's built up like a real reputation for himself as like a duplicitous guy. And so now that's sure he's with him, it's really going to be

interesting to see where that goes. So unfortunately, we didn't get him yet in this episode. We'll see. We got him in the first episode. And a little bit in the second at the very beginning. He has been the source of conflict. And he's like,

he's embroiled in a little like, screen scandal right now. He was caught for like plotting to release like revenge porn of his ex-wife or something like that. So yeah, definitely has like not the best reputation. We'll see how it plays out through the season because he's obviously not very well liked amongst the cast here. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like we're going to get a reason to not like him in the Bravel universe either by the time to show heads.

but we'll see. Any other final thoughts on Real House of Atlanta before we move on? Just like Candace shows up in all of these, doesn't she? I mean, we watched Potomac with Candace a bit, right? Yeah. We watched Ultimate Girls trip where Candice was a cast member that too. She made a cameo in Real House of New Jersey a couple weeks ago that we were watching. You know, here she's performing in this.

Like I expect her to just be like trotted out. the Vanderpump Rules Reunion next time we watch it. I hope so. That would be amazing. Her star is rising. She has been on Real House of Ptoxic for, I want to say, four or five seasons now. And she was someone that was not well liked by the fan base. She was like, she's always been one of my favorites.

She's very active. She's often not coming from a place where she is, in like has the moral right necessarily but she is very like emotional and very like a very active housewife and so i've i've always loved her and then this season we got her um she got a real hero at it because of how she was responding um to the situation with uh with joselle and chris and And yeah, and she's given us so many great quotable confessionals. So it's awesome to see to see her star rising and she's building a following. And also, she's very active now watching Vanderpump Rules.

I knew it. She will show up in the show. I hope so. But Scandival put Vanderpump Rules on her radar and she's like diving in deep into the like the fan engagement on on Twitter watching the show and reacting and yeah love love to see anytime candace shows up i'm i'm happy that she's on screen nice i think before we move on from atlanta we should each pick at least one person who we we who reminds us of a hockey player oh okay yeah okay well let's uh let's have you lead us off um i would i would definitely compare

candy to like a vetchkin in the sense that she's been around for a while and used to be like maybe like more active and dynamic in scoring wins when she was younger and now is still scoring wins but does it in like a more like seemingly passive way like just somehow finds the open areas of the ice just kind of gets in the right place in the right time and uses strategy more than like like hard charging power forward plays but it's still like a superstar at the top of their game even at a later stage in their career uh how about you right I'm going to compare Drew to Mark Shifley You know there's some talent there and shows flashes of what possibly can be there

Maybe a bit lazy won't back check won't do the defensive work We'll do what's necessary to get to the next level So yeah I'm going to go with Drew being Mark Shifley I like that and we've never heard either of them swear to my knowledge Yeah I think that I would compare Kenya to Bradshaw Admarchan, a little bit of an agitator. You love them if they're on your team. You hate to play against them.

Able to make an impact in almost any situation. So, yeah, that's my pick. Yeah, yeah, I like that. Now that you mentioned it, I do like that little moment of Kenya, like being a boss and just like just chewing out some graphic designer. And then the way they intercut patch with her being like, yeah, I'm a very patient boss. And then she's being like, yeah, why don't you fucking fix it the first time? And that young lady is just looking down just, oh, my God. Yeah, yeah.

She even glances at the camera at one point, like, yeah, it's like, that's a lot. And I got the feeling that like none of the girls were going to bring up the fact that Drew just went on stage and did her little woo-woo. If it weren't for Kenya, like, making that happen, making that discussion happen. She's like, oh, well, why did you just do like a little woo-woo on stage? And that was it. Well, good for Kenya because we were all thinking it. I also really love the, uh, Sonia's confessional where she mentions that, um, Drew's moment on stage was like shorter than her 400 meter world record time. And it was.

Yeah. The clock. Yeah. They typed it and everything. Yeah. Awesome. Okay, well, let's let's talk about Blowdeck Sailing Yacht. So this is a show that we have not yet covered on this podcast. It's a show that I follow. I don't think it's as like narratively rich as like Real Housewives or Vanderpump rules, but it's still like a ton of fun. I feel like Blodeck, you know, if, uh, blowdeck is kind of like this exploration of like workplace dynamics and and to an extent even like class dynamics that, it makes it kind of interesting. So I'm curious what your thoughts on this were, right?

Oh, when I was watching this, like, especially the first 15 before the actual technical problems with the boat happened, I was like, yo, this is the Winnipeg Jets locker room. This must be the toxicity that's happening behind, the senior people trying to get into the younger people's mind, a cool leader like Captain Glenn, who I do like, kind of chill and letting B, let's, whatever B, be with the staff. And that's what I thought of automatically that Winnipeg Jets locker room in the current state that it's in. Yeah. Did you have any, any highlights or any characters that stood out to you?

Gary and Daisy, that relationship, is it Daisy? Yeah. That dynamic is just something that I'm interested in. There's some kind of friction there and there's, I don't know, a crush on her part to him. and it's also creepy that she's kind of getting in the way of him getting hooked up with anyone else. Well, that's his interpretation. I'm not sure how much I advise his interpretation. And maybe because of the camera cuts and everything I bought into it as a few guys. So I was like, but I don't know. Yeah, it didn't really get interesting until the boat problems.

Because I was like, oh, these people are so mean to each other. It's so toxic, which is also entertaining. But yeah, that's what really stuck out to me. Yeah, I think so just like some context on that relationship between Daisy and Gary, they are a former couple. So they dated somewhat briefly between the previous season of Blowdex Sailing Yacht and this season of Blodex sailing Yacht and then broke up. So, yeah, that is a little bit of a source of friction. I also don't really buy into Gary's read of the situation. But yeah, it is an interesting dynamic to watch out for in the future, especially since we got like a tease of Daisy kissing Colin apparently in an upcoming season,

or an upcoming episode this season. So I'm curious about how that all plays out. Dylan, what were your thoughts on Below Deck Sailing Yacht? This is my first time watching a Below Deck show. actually I haven't watched any of them yet. I've been meeting to to get my sea legs for a while now, but this is this is my first time. I'm glad I did. It's definitely a bit of a different beast because like you said, it is like a workplace dynamic too. I work in the hospitality industry too. So it's like kind of like recognizable dynamics to be just a lot more crunched and concentrated because they're all in the same boat. And obviously it's a great format. It's got a lot of great things working for it. The workplace dynamic is just. like a great vehicle for for drama the fact that it's like like we close as they say in mysteries you know like a closed area is great the fact that you have like different charters coming in gives you that kind of like old school network TV like episode of the week kind of thing yeah you know

and I really like how they'll be like and these are like today's clients and bust out the little file folder with like headshots and stuff like it's like the targets an omission impossible movie. And I thought that was really cool. And then you have like you sort of suggested this, Craig. There's a bit of the old like upstairs downstairs thing, like an old English novel where you've got like the rich assholes partying on the boat. And then the people who are definitely not like most of these people don't really seem

to be like lower class families, but you know, are not from the same wealth strata as the people that they're catering to who are like in the, the working side. of the ship. So I like having that too. It's like, there's just like so many reasons why this is just a great idea for a show. Yeah. You know?

Not to mention like every episode has very like beautiful shots of whatever the locale is. Yeah. The fact that they are at sea and exposed to lots of problems, I feel like you have a, you've got this source of environmental. mental conflict that doesn't exist on any other, on any other show. You've got, you've got this dynamic where there is conflict between the members of the crew, which is something that you see on like Housewives and Vanderpump rules, your cast conflict.

But then you've got this kind of united front that has a dynamic that has to play against the, the charters that you're seeing. So lots of different potential sources of conflict and story. And yeah, that rotation each week where you've got a new cast of characters and a new dynamic at play really makes this a really engaging show. Yeah, yeah. Like you said, the location's great because you've got great scenery. And then, man, when they make that like the sardinian food,

that looks so good. after I watched the show, I woke up the next day and I had all these browser tabs open to like Sargidian recipes. That really did it for me. But yeah, the cast is pretty good. I definitely want to to keep watching them. I feel like sympathetic to Daisy just because I kind of like her as the person. I recognize her as the person who gets everything done and then who people resent because she's the person who gets everything done, which means like being a hard ass sometimes. And, you know, Captain Glenn just gets everything done.

to be like the chill captain while she's the one like getting shit getting shit in place making sure people are doing their jobs and that person's always going to be resented but is like the most like necessary cog and so I know that she's like clearly really stressed about that and that that uh but that uh it kind of endears her to me in a way I also really like kind of like as a character chase oh I who I yeah who I thought he was so annoying at first but then I started to find him charming as this like really uncool. American. And I thought it was almost sweet.

Like the way they're like having a meal on shore and he keeps making these lame jokes being like, oh, you guys are so suave like 007. Like, like, oh, oh, what's this in my dish? Is it like fried chicken and watermelon? And then they're like, that's the arch and chase. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It was just like really funny. And then like when he crosses paths with, uh, with Lucy and he's like, oh, high five.

And she's like, oh, we don't high five in the UK. And then he's like, I'll crush it about it. And then Luce, like, feels bad and comes to see him later. It's like, you know, I feel bad about it. We can high five now. And he's like, yeah, you're lucky to have America as a friend. So funny for me. And of course, a yoga session.

Oh, yeah. He does bring a vibe, a good quality vibe to the trip where, you know, he kind of softens everyone up in his group. Yeah. brings a vibe brings a twister board he was adamant he was adamant to get that game going oh yeah yeah yeah just like

so pleased when it was like playing out yeah I'm surprised we don't get to see more of him actually like vibing with their their charter because they're a bunch of uncool Americans too right like they's that seems like they would love chase he seems like he's their child

absolutely he seems like that son to that dude have made inappropriate jokes at the wrong time every time. Big Jim who has like a big flag of himself unfurled on the

flag mess. Oh, goodness. They love that guy at the pickleball carts, that's for sure. Yeah, one thing that I really like about below deck is how,

you know, because it's on a boat, there is this very strong, like, hierarchy of positions. Like, yeah.

There is like a chain of command that needs to be followed. But then we get them, you know, going off boat. And we still see that dynamic exist within their social interactions when they're going out and like getting drunk. And it does inform the decisions that they make, even though they don't have to adhere to that. And so it's very interesting to me to see like kind of when and where they choose to not just consider the fact that they have to work together, but also. that the like where the chain of command comes into play yeah there's a lot of moving parts almost too many moving parts compared to like some of the housewife shows that I love that my favorite scenes are just like people in a room talking and see where the conversation goes but it is there's like

so many dynamics at play and below death it's almost cluttered with dynamics but that's also like provides like a ton of tension and like different angles of approach like yeah our relationship our vast relationships are dynamic as co-workers, our hierarchical dynamics, like all that happening at the same time. Yeah. Another thing that I really appreciate about the Blow Deck franchise is that we typically get a roster refresh at the beginning of every season. There's very few characters that carry forward from season to season.

Typically, they try to preserve the chief stew if they've got an individual. engaging person like Daisy or the best chief stews were like Kate Chastain on Belowdeck and and Hannah from Belowdeck med. So if they've got someone that is able to be really engaging in a confessional and just like be kind of messy but also like work really hard and be like you said don't that cog that kind of keeps the workplace functioning. They they really like to have that person. from time to time we'll see a reoccurring bosun or like in gary's case he i think he's like the first officer now

but uh someone that is like leading the actual deck crew return but aside from that we usually have new uh second and third stews coming on and a new like deck crew that that comes up so seeing a new seeing a new crew start the season is something that is always interesting because you get to see them kind of feel out how things work and how that dynamic is going to shake out and it never is the same season twice. You're not seeing a lot of history get rehashed in ways that you see on other shows.

Does that include the chef, Alicia? Yeah, so she's new this season. Sometimes you will see a chef. like a reoccurring chef if they've got someone that is like particularly engaging so we saw chef ben i think has probably the most below deck seasons under his belt he hasn't been on below deck sailing yacht but he was on the original below deck and he was um he was the person that carried over when below deck spun off and created below deck med he was the the only person from below deck that that carried over there um and actually when they started uh below deck sailing yacht

they brought over a chef who was previously on below deck med uh chef adam so chefs can be very like can be reoccurring characters as well because they can be um they can be very compelling and like i don't know i don't know about you but like chefs just kind of have like this like chef vibe there's like this chef like personality. So when you've got a chef that really like is engaging like that, like chef Rachel is another one that we've seen reoccurring, they're just like really fun to watch and, you know, they're very reactive because chefs seem to always be very reactive.

And to have an environmental like element that plays into things, especially on blowdeck sailing yacht but you know when you're you've got a kitchen that is like offshore um that has certain constraints that they have to work with and on blowdeck sailing yacht especially you see if they are sailing and they're like uh tacking hard and like um uh you know the the boat is tipped over you've got shit flying around all over the galley like falling off shells and stuff. That is so fun to watch. Yeah, it's also fun to see a chef just working alone too because usually they've got like their sous chefs and whatever are hanging around them. They're going to be a little dictate

or bark in orders and stuff. But here we've got a chef just like suing in their own juices, just doing their own thing, maybe getting a hand from time to time from a crew member who is not like a dedicated kitchen staff member. So I feel like that's like a chef concentrated. The chef boiled down into a court buoy on or something. them. Yeah. And you do get a little bit of that element that makes, you know, cooking competition reality shows so interesting because like it's fun to watch someone like really succeed at like just nailing a dish that makes everyone like sat aside that looks delicious. But it's also really fun to see someone like really fuck up and like not meet expectations and just really like fail.

So the fact that you get like both sides of the. that is what drives the success of like cooking reality shows and to have that element in a you know a bravo narrative reality show is is really entertaining yeah i definitely found myself more interested in the work dynamic more than the personal dynamic at the beginning uh especially at the end or getting close to the end with alex and people complaining about him being on shift being lazy and not cleaning i kind of want to see where that goes that little tension between people about quality of work and not holding their own end. Yeah.

Yeah. And that's another unique thing about Blow Deck is like it is very common for someone to get fired mid-season. Like sometimes there's multiple firings mid-season. So, you know, you'll have a, your intro for the show where it goes like through all the like the portholes where it's got the like the personalities in that get introduced. That changes over the course of the season as people are like fired and replaced, which is, is really interesting. So it adds a certain unpredictability to it that you don't get in something like Housewives

where, you know, it's almost unheard of for Housewife to get fired mid-season or have a new addition mid-season. So, you know, when you're starting out the season and one thing that we saw on like Real Housewives Atlanta that I pointed out, was like I know that Courtney is not a full-blown peach holder so I can kind of read into that that you know her storyline with candy is probably not going to be enough to like give us like main character energy. Whereas on below deck you don't know if someone is going to get fired part way through the season.

So it adds that that element of uncertainty that makes it really exciting to watch. It's never not going to be funny for me when you say peach holder, Craig. It sounds like a term for somebody who molests people on public transit. Jesus. No, I believe that term is Michael Darby. Any final thoughts about Blow Deck? I'll just say it's one of the worst collections of English accents I've ever heard in my life. That's the worst part about it.

Got like an Aussie, a cute. I think there's a South African in there and like a couple people from like the southeastern states. Thank God for Daisy's Irish accent because that's the most melodious one we've got. Yeah. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining us, Ray. You want to let everyone know where they can find you?

Yeah, of course. You can find me on Instagram at Ray Benny Sports. You can also find our YouTube channel, Ray and Benny Talk Sports. Weekly podcast, Winnipeg-centric, but we still have hot topics about all the other sports. what's going on right now. And yeah, you can find me. I'm an actor in Winnipeg. I'll be on theater stages

in your local hallmark movies. Awesome. I don't want to let Ray go without getting a Stanley Cup picks. Let's go. Oh, yeah, let's hear. Oh, yeah, let's hear him. Oh, I'm cheering for Pomo.

I'm cheering for Pomo, so I'm going to stick with POMO. I'm one of those guys who supported him. I didn't think he was the issue. I always thought it was a core of the team that was really disappointing. And so not that I feel validated, but it feels great to see him move forward.

forward and especially with that sweep in the last round. So go Pomo and I'll take Florida. Yeah, it's crazy how like the read on that changed so dramatically over the course of a season, right? Like you look a couple months into the season, the Panthers are floundering, the Jetsar Fly. It's so easy to claim victory for the people who were like, he was the problem all along. And now look where we are. Exactly. It's like it's totally flipped out of its head.

Yeah, I'm still running the cats. I picked Florida to beat all three teams they've won. Don't ask me how the rest of my bracket went, okay? I'm taking no further questions at this time, but the cats have been very good to be. So, of course, I'm going to pick them to win to. And I want to see the cats win, and I want to see the heat win the NBA, too. Let's see two South Florida upsets in the final. That'd be awesome.

That'd be crazy. Yeah. And I'm picking Panthers as well. I just feel like with the crocodiles down in Florida, they really need a win. So it'd be good. They really need a good story. Yeah. let's said Matthew

you could chuck out to take care of those now and Roger D. He's a winner. Dylan, how about yourself? Working people find you? You can find me

talking about horror movies on the podcast, Mind Over Splatter, writing about movies on Substack. Awesome. Well, that has been Bravo Outsider for this week. Check out our Vanderpump Reunion Special.

It's out wherever you're listening to this. We're on Instagram at Bravo Outsider. We're on Twitter at Bravo underscore Outsider. We're on TikTok at Bravo Outsider. Find us YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, anywhere you're listening to podcasts. Until next week, keep on wiping.