Oscars Outsider - Is the Vanderpump Rules Reboot Actually Going to be Good? | S12 Premiere Recap

Episode Date: December 5, 2025

In this episode of Bravo Outsider, we dive deep into the Season 12 reboot of Vanderpump Rules — the return of SUR, the total cast overhaul, and the big question: Can a brand-new crew deliver the chaos, drama, and magnitude the show was built on? We compare the legacy cast with the new SUR-vers and ask if the reboot might actually work this time.📞 Call the Bravo Outsider Hotline: [phone] — leave a voicemail with your takes on the Bravo universe, the new VPR season, or anything Bravo-related, and we might feature you on the show.⸻🥂 About Bravo OutsiderBravo Outsider offers a fresh, analytical take on Bravo shows — not just the drama, but the storytelling, editing, character archetypes, and social dynamics underneath. We dig into metaphor, production craft, and the “architecture” of reality TV. If you love Bravo for more than just the tea, you’re in the right spot.⸻🍸 Featured BravolebsVanderpump Rules – Season 12 (New Cast):Venus Binkley, Jason Cohen, Shayne Davis, Chris Hahn, Angelica Jensen, Marcus Johnson, Audrey Lingle, Natalie Maguire, Demy Selem & Kim Suarez Vanderpump Rules – Legacy Cast (Referenced):Lisa Vanderpump, Ariana Madix, Scheana Shay, Katie Maloney, Tom Sandoval, Tom Schwartz, James Kennedy, Lala Kent, others from earlier seasons ⸻⭐ What We Cover in This Episode • The full Season 12 cast lineup: who they are & what their roles could be at SUR • How the reboot compares to original VPR: casting philosophy, tone, stakes • “The New Stassi?” archetype — are any of the new cast built to be breakout icons? • Cinematic & editing analysis: how SUR is being framed, tone shifts, and reboot energy • What works and what’s risky with starting fresh: will fans feel the same vibe? • Predictions for major conflict arcs, cast dynamics, and “rise & fall” potentials⸻🎧 Join the CommunityLike, comment your favourite moments, and subscribe for more Bravo Outsider recaps & breakdowns.Drop your thoughts in: /r/bravooutsider — https://www.reddit.com/r/bravooutsider⸻🔍 Hashtags / SEO Tags#VanderpumpRules #VPRSeason12 #VPRReboot #RealityTV #BravoTV #VanderpumpRules2025 #BravoOutsider #RealityTVAnalysis #SUR #VPRRebootCast

Do you think that there's like intention behind production to recreate some of these characters or archetypes or dynamics that we saw within the old cast in this new cast? I think you can't get around it, right? Like that might not be their sole focus, but I'm sure there's production meetings when they're like, oh, maybe Marcus's our new jacks. Like how can you not have those conversations? How can you not compare them to the original cast members? I doubt they're specifically have like slots. like we have to put this person and this person's slot necessarily, but those conversations, I'm sure, are happening.

They seem to be framing Natalie as like a real focus of the show, and that seems to be a good choice. I definitely see her as somebody who could follow kind of Stacey Schrader's footsteps. It's not a one-for-one comparison, but she has that kind of like very dynamic, slightly unhinged, maybe more than slightly, camera presence. That's very fascinating. she immediately comes off as like a really interesting, unstable, but kind of like chic LA personality.

She looks like wise blood and talks like Laura Lumer. Like she's got, she's between being like kind of like a West Hollywood like cool party girl and being like kind of a walking red flag. She has her finger in my face saying, you're always against me. I can't believe I'm being treated like this. I'm Natalie. Here's a list of reasons why I really shouldn't be in trouble at all. Why is everyone making me out to be so crazy? Because I'm actually going through something.

And by the way, Mercury has been in retrograde this entire time. And by the way, my ex and I had no sex life. And he was very private about everything. So that's another reason why I'm really upset. Because maybe if I was getting laid, I'd be a happier person. Hello and welcome to the Bravo outsider podcast. I'm your host, Craig Midwinter. joined once again by Dylan Ferguson.

Dylan, I'm glad that you're back, and I am glad that Vanderpump rules is back. We've got a brand new cast and a brand new season. What are your initial thoughts on this? Potential. There's real potential here, I think. Definitely was very trepidacious heading in. I did not want to repeat of the, like, season eight soft reboot era,

where they tried to foreground, you know, Dana and Max and whatever, those new cast members they had, that the last time they tried to freshen it up with younger faces, they didn't pick great personalities. I think they had like some really some weak characters, which is why that was kind of a wash. So I was really worried that I was going to be a repeat of that. I don't think it is. I mean, it's one episode. We'll see. But I'm surprised by the caliber of the personalities that we've seen so far. I think There's real potential there. Okay.

I as well thought that the personalities that they have cast are like pretty strong right out of the gate. I think that, you know, obviously the initial Vanderpump rules, that's lightning in a bottle. It's going to be hard to capture that. These characters seem like they've got enough of a foundation that they can grow and, you know, put on a really good show. So I'm pretty, pretty excited about that.

Without getting too much into the first soft reboot that we got to. in like season seven, season eight, whatever that was. I think that that really suffered from having, you know, these iconic big characters that the audience was so attached to, really sucking the attention out of, you know, all these new cast members. And it was just hard for them to really get a foothold here. And this group seems like it's a lot better position just because they don't have

all of these old characters going. and taking up screen time. So I liked it. I'm very enthused by this. What do you think of like the overall tone of this show? How do you think it compares to like the last season that we had of Vanderpump Rules or early seasons of Vanderpump Rules? Definitely compares more easily to like season one of Vanderpumpurals,

which is obviously what they're going with. I do like a renewed focus on it being a work. place drama on, on most of the scenes taking place at the job of having like one character being trained by another of having somebody getting caught on camera and the business owners being like we need to have a meeting and crack down on this. That kind of like grounding in it being a workplace is I think important because it was one of the important foundations of the original show before it built to become something else. But with this new cast, I think having that structure, having that certain kind of relatability to, for the audience to ground themselves in the characters,

to see them right off the bat, not as reality TV personalities, but as people in a workplace, which gives us something that we can sink our teeth into because we all know those kind of dynamics, those kind of situations more or less. We've all worked some kind of jobs where we've had our buddies on the same shifts with us and had to deal with the friendships and relationships and with management, with our coworkers and all that stuff. That makes sense. it easier, I think, for us to kind of insert ourselves into it a bit. So I think that structure, that workplace structure, makes it more like season one. And that's a good thing. That's how it should start off. That makes it feel like more of a proper reboot we're building from the ground up.

Yeah, totally. And this episode definitely seems it is almost entirely laying foundation. It is hard to, I mean, normally our structure as a podcast is that we try to pick a scene that we think it's most important to the narrative, but this whole episode is foundational. And so it's hard to really pick a scene that really is important to the narrative because it's also such important exposition and such important world building and character building. The only real, like, characters that we know are like Lisa Vanderpump and Sir, which I was, one of the things that I think was really interesting about the treatment of this episode was how Sir was, almost treated like a character that we are familiar with.

And they had to, you know, they had to give it stakes. Like there was this peril about all the restaurants around that were, were closing. And they needed to give it like a glam up. We needed to make it like feel like fresh and sexy and fun again. Because as people who have watched this show for like 12 seasons, we've kind of grown with Sir.

And we feel old. And so we need to be reintroduced to Sir as, this sexy place where there's people that are, you know, having fun and getting, getting into trouble. And so I, I really like the treatment of Sir as a character here. I'm wondering if, like, there was any, like, standout examples of, of that for you. I definitely like including the scene with Natalie, Lisa's, not Natalie the cast member, but Lisa's French business partner. Oh, yeah. We've seen in certain moments throughout the history of Adipa rules. Just because, like, she genuinely seems completely focused on running a business, like, which is, you know, Lisa is kind of,

but Lisa has, you know, she's a producer on the show and she has a bunch of businesses she's doing at the same time. So Natalie just feels like she's not playing for the cameras at all. Like she's just like really intriguing Lisa. Like we, this is a business. We have to make money. We have to like not suffer the fate of these other restaurants around us that have been closed down in this hard period for sexy unique restaurants. having that extra layer of out external stakes that aren't like the same stakes that cast member is focused on is just um it just adds another frame uh to like the decisions being made that are going to affect them so i like that kind of a reminder that it is an actual

operating restaurant and there are actual people concerned about it being something that's not just a set for uh drama to happen in but like a place where investors need to make money. Yeah, totally. And that is so important to us as viewers as well, because, you know, for the last, you know, half of Vanderpump rules, Sir has almost been this, like, a mechanism within the show that kind of just is a framing device. We see people that clearly don't need to work there because they're reality TV stars. They don't need that paycheck, but they're going into work the bar at sir or going into DJ at sir just like it seems so so fake and so to ground that in reality again is so important for us as a viewer so that it seems like the stake for the restaurant

is real and the stake for the people working there are real like they need these jobs and I think that when we see like criticisms of late van der pamp rules a lot of old school fans are saying you know, we don't, like, the restaurant just, like, it doesn't make sense that people are still going here. We know they don't need these jobs. Why do we have to, like, force this in here? So I think using that to ground this back as the setting for these hungry servers is really important. Totally agree. Do you have any, like, shots or, like, sequences that stand out to you in terms of the presentation of this?

The scene that stood out most to me is when they all kind of go for drinks after their shift, they're all at the patio of the Belmont and they're all kind of talking over each other and stuff. That was the most like aesthetically interesting scene to me because they're kind of bathed in a sort of pinky orange light that seems to be at least partially coming from the neon signs on the patio. The street is behind them. You know, they're not just in an alley. They're actually out on the street. and but the street behind them is all kind of blueish, greedish. So there's just very stark contrast between like their inner world and the outside world, which is still there, but as like a backdrop.

I like the way they all kind of talk at the same time. It really gives this feeling of them being all kind of in this little echo chamber bubble of all being in their world and all kind of feeling out not just the relationship to each other, but also the relationship to being on the show, I think, which is kind of the, the not stated thing that they are now learning to how to adjust to living out a portion of their lives on camera, which I think is also kind of a subtle theme of this episode is that they're also adjusting to figuring out what it's going to mean to be on camera for a long period of their lives potentially, which is the thing that they're not allowed to obviously expressly state to break

the K-Fabe rules. But I feel it's very present there in the way they're conducting themselves and stuff. So I really like that, that strong aesthetic contrast between the pinky orange in world and kind of the bluey green outworld. And there's one moment where it kind of gets punctured a little bit, where they have the little kind of gimmick shot of having a random passerby, some mustached guy, you know, just stopping by the end of the patio, just staring at them. And they include a shot of him staring at them. They proved, presumably, like a producer went out and had him sign a waiver so that they could include a shot of him just staring at them. But it feels like this sort of like harbinger, right?

Like, it's like, yeah, you're all in this, like, little in-world. But you are observed now. You are being watched and random people are just looking at what you're doing because you're out of TV show now. Yeah, totally, totally. You didn't recognize him? What? Was that a person?

Well, yeah, it's a person. That's dog Davis. He was a, he was a production assistant on Robocop 2. Wait, what? No, I only know that because I saw someone post that, that, like, still frame on Instagram and someone tag. tagged him. And I look and he's like, he's like an aspiring comedian who was like a production assistant on Robicop 2. He posted a eclipse. Oh, wow. So they made a real celebrity. Yeah,

exactly. Yeah. That's Hollywood. Inider, Dog Davis. But you're right. He he does serve as kind of a proxy for us as viewers because we are like confused and like trying to feel out this dynamic and this new And yeah, so I think that that is a great point. I think in terms of like what stood out to me as like deliberate choices in the construction of this episode, the thing that we open on for this for this reboot is Lisa Vanderpum and she is asking about the positioning of the camera, like the framing of the camera for her confessional. And I think to open on someone being explicitly aware of. of the cameras is a really interesting choice because then they immediately have to contrast it with this new cast and like a brand new employee at at sir who has no camera awareness. And so I think that that was a really good choice to kind of have a contrast from, you know, the old Vanderpump that is like hyper aware of cameras and all the meta surrounding reality TV, which ended with the fourth wall being shattered. by the like Ariana's walkout.

We get that bridge from Lisa Vanderpump being like the carryover and being like, yeah, I'm aware that there are cameras here, cut to people that are supposedly unaware. And it really re like imverses us in this world as though the cameras are gone. I thought that that was a really, really great choice to position us as viewers. Yeah, because that kind of plays into it. I think we've kind of been circling around the idea that the show doesn't only need. need to have to rebuild the cast. It has to rebuild the K-Fabe.

It has to rebuild the separation between like what the cast members are allowed to discuss and like what the world of the show is contrasted with the world of outside. Because like you said, in the final two seasons of Vanderpump, Ruinals, that that really broke down. And we discussed that at length. It was fascinating. But the division between like who these people are off camera and on camera and interactions between that are happening. amongst cast members and that are happening, you know, on social media, off camera and stuff. It all got all mixed up together, you know, and, and that was really interesting. But they have to rebuild that because there has to be a certain, um, uh, certain silos, uh,

in order for this ecosystem to really thrive. And, uh, and, and that's a good pickup. That that's one of those gestures. I think the production is making to kind of show that they're, that they're, uh, they're rebuilding the idea of like an on-camera world. And while we can understand intellectually, that these people are trying to deal with that and figure out how they're going to be presented on a camera

and how their lives are going to change as a result of that, that can't be part of the explicit conversation, partially because it would break the kind of like relatability of it, right? Like I say, the kind of self-insertion aspect that the audience needs to kind of really emphasize with the characters. they need to see them as people just clocking into their job and dealing with their relationships there. It builds the complexity that we are all obviously intellectually aware of the fact that

they are learning how to be reality TV characters that adds to the kind of, you know, parallax view of the different angles of the different framing devices that that makes the magic of reality TV, you know, all these different frames that we have to be aware of at the same time that can really build a very deep perspective on a very shallow person is always part of it, but what can be stated on the show has to be kind of limited in order for us to kind of really begin to empathize with these characters as like a starting position before we build from that. Right, because the only way that Vanderpump rules continue to work is because of that, like that goodwill and that foundation that was built up through the first.

few seasons. We allowed the, uh, we allowed ourselves to suspend the disbelief because we got to know these people and their stakes and we were already invested in them as characters. So we were able to, like, allow them to use these devices a little bit more liberally than, um, than a new cast would be able to. So let's, let's talk about some of those, those shallow people that we're getting to know. Who do you think had the most like strong introduction here? Natalie. They seem to be framing Natalie as a real focus of the show, and that seems to be a good choice. I definitely see her as somebody who could follow a kind of Stacey Schrader's footsteps. It's not a one-for-one comparison, but she has that kind of like very dynamic, slightly unhinged, maybe more than slightly. Camera presence. That's like, that's very fascinating. She immediately comes off as like, like, like a really interesting, unstable, but kind of like chic LA personality. She looks like wise blood and talks like Laura Lumer.

Like she's got she's between being like kind of like a West Hollywood like cool party girl and being like kind of a walking red flag like. But there's a lot of like there's a lot of chemistry I think between her and the camera. Like it's a bit she's a very exciting personality. I think they found a good one there. They've got a winner in Natalie, so I'm really, really excited to see where they take it with her. Yeah, she was the most immediately magnetic out of this entire cast.

And I think by quite a bit, there were some other standout personalities, but you touched on something that I want to get into a little bit. You made the comparison between her and Stasi. Do you think that there's intention behind production to try to recreate some of these characters or archetypes or dynamics that we saw within the old cast in this new cast. I think you can't get around it, right?

That might not be their sole focus, but I'm sure there's production meetings when they're like, oh, you know, maybe Marcus's are new Jacks. Like, I'm sure, like, how can you not have those conversations? How can you not compare them to the original cast members? I doubt they're specifically have, like, slots. Like, we have to put this person and this person's slot necessarily, but those conversations, I'm sure, are.

happening. You know, they're, they're trying to recreate that magic. So part of that is going to be recreating some of those roles. And I think they're not doing it at a one for one way, like trying to find a perfect match, which they should not do. For example, I feel like Chris is taking the Sheena role, right? In season one, Sheena was like the newcomer who kind of like came into this, this already messy world and like wasn't too sure about it. And, and I feel like that's the role that Chris is taking in this one, you know, they're going with a guy instead of a girl in that role. That's what I mean by that they're not like tried to imitate the same original persons. But I think, yeah, there's a certain degree of slotting people into vacated slots.

Yeah, I agree. I think that the way that they're doing it, like you said, is they don't have like one for one. But they've basically taken all of these various like traits or like functions that these people had or the dynamics had. and they've like put them all on a board and tried to figure out who is able to like fill each one because like you said we have a newcomer that is joining the fold and like entering this existing dynamic which is how sheena was framed at the beginning of um the beginning of van der pumberwell season one but i think that that that's kind of where the shina comparison ends for someone like chris or someone like uh jason is also for framed in that way. But Jason and Chris kind of have a Tom and Tom dynamic in that they're like so close. And so I do think that they are trying to replicate some of these dynamics and some of these traits, but smartly they are not, you know, casting exact replacements, which was the, the, the right decision. You mentioned Marcus. What are, what are your thoughts on, on Marcus? Marcus, I like to.

that's also somebody with a lot of potential. I think he's got a good look. He's kind of got this kind of like unblinking but also fatigued sort of 1940s like gangster movie extra cafe rat kind of look to him. There's something a little timeless about his about his face. I like him. He said that he was the the budget chain. Yeah, the budget chain, whatever his last name is.

Shane Davis. How can you forget Shane Davis? He's the most. the most Shane Davis. I love the way he's introduced, but he like he looks like budget Remy Malick. Yeah, yeah, definitely

Remy Malick vives. By the way, well, we're making those comparisons. Shane Davis looks nothing like Ryan Gosling in the notebook. I don't know what Natalie was talking about. He looks like Dolf Lundgren and Rocky 4.

But still, yes, very, very good looking guy. But Marcus is obviously also kind of a good looking guy, but in a much more like character actor kind of way. Right. Yeah, totally. The other comparison, celebrity comparison that we got was Robert De Niro and Chris when we got

him doing a De Niro impression, but it wasn't like a line that De Niro has ever said to my knowledge. It was the line that Paul Rudd like does an impression of Robert De Niro doing and knocked up. Is that one? Yeah. I was trying to pick. I was trying to pick up what movie is that?

That's not taxi drivers. He's saying that in good films? I don't remember that in good fellas. I haven't seen him a while. There's so many. Like an actor who has arguably some of the most iconic roles in cinema and you pick Paul Rudd doing an impression of him from knocked up. Such a like baffling choice, but like really great.

Any other like highlights from from this cast? Yeah. So if Natalie and Marcus are going to be like the two mains, good choices. again, lots of potential. That gives me a lot of hope for this series. I do like Shane Davis a lot too. Shane Davis is great.

It's the introduction that Marcus gives him, perfect, you know, where he's like, you hear him laughing and he doesn't like, ha, ha, ha. And you're like,

oh, there's a hot guy coming in. And then you're like, yep, that is Shane Davis. And then they show him finally. And you're like, yeah,

I never knew what a Shane Davis was before. But as soon as I saw him, that is Shane Davis. You're right. That is the most Shane Davis, anyone could possibly be. I totally agree with you, Marcus. I love that there's one guy who just seems like to be like the perfect avatar of like

the most maximally confident, you know, good looking Hollywood's positive bro. Like just like all of these guys have that kind of like, you know, enforced positivity, the kind of like confidence and fraternity that you professionally need to have as like a good looking person who like wants to just find opportunities and say yes to opportunities and be offered opportunities as an actor, dancer, model, stripper, whatever it takes. But Shane is like the most like perfectly, you know, in personality, in aesthetics positioned of all those people. And and I'm interested by that. Like I'm interested to see more of this guy too. Yeah, totally. And yeah, great, great call on Marcus's confessional.

there. He did a great job in the confessionals, I thought, for this. Like, the way that he was introducing people like Shane Davis, the way that he was providing exposition for telling the story about how the fight happened

between him and Kim. I just thought that he did a great job in the confessional. Yeah. Speaking of, like, confessionals and perspective and stuff like that, what do you think about how we are like forced to rely on these people as narrators for like as we're being introduced

with them. Since we're like feeling them out, we don't have any sort of perspective and we have to like determine whether or not we trust people. Were there people that you gravitated to and like trust more than others in terms of their point of view? So Chris does a very good job with this. And I think he shows why he's a great choice. choice for being the kind of audience insert newbie, like, who's going to guide us into this Caligulian world. Because when he's presenting himself, he's like, you know, I've done, I've been a stripper. I have an only fan.

You know, he's like laying it all out there. You, you, you feel that he's being honest. Whether he's being totally honest or not, the fact that he's like just laying out that all that out there and not like playing his cards close to the chest and being like, you know, I've had various opportunities and gigs or whatever. He's like, yeah, I've got an only fans.

It pays my bills. You immediately feel like you can trust him because he's just like he, he's being totally open about like I'm doing whatever it takes. I'm saying yes to everything. I'm taking every gig I can get because I'm, I'm fighting for it. That's what you got to do. So I think he did a great job of presenting himself that way by like making us feel like

were his intimates, like he's not hiding anything from us. That'll make it a lot easier for us to feel like we're following him into this world, that he's going to be an honest guide for us. Yeah, I thought that there was like an array of people like this, Chris being a real standout. But I thought that Venus as well did a pretty good job of seeming relatively impartial, but at the same time acting a little messy. I really liked what he was doing here.

And so those two are the ones that I kind of gravitated to for a more unbiased perspective. Whether that holds true, I'm excited to see it. And that's going to be one of the fun things over the course of this season is seeing who is trustworthy and who isn't. And, you know, kind of learning about these personalities. But I thought that both of them did great. And that's a great point about Chris. Did you have any quotes or anything that stood out to you from this episode? Nothing like five star, but Natalie is pretty quotable too.

Like, I do like the bit where she's like, okay, here's a list of reasons why I shouldn't be in trouble at all. Like, the way she defends herself is really funny. I like what she says to Chris, like, okay, everybody's going to tell you I was crazy and screaming, which is true. Yeah. That little bit of misdirection where you think she's going to defend herself and it's just like, I was. But I should also not be in trouble at all. She also delivers the line. We're all monsters all the time, which is great.

So really good stuff from Natalie, quote-wise. Yeah, I agree that is a standout moment. Another standout moment also from Natalie that I captured was Ariana Grande lived in the next neighborhood over from me. We ate the same Italian food. What went into her body is the same. as what went into my body. What comes out should be the same. I really loved her framing herself as like the equivalent to one of the greatest pop stars of all

time. Very sheenicoded here. But yeah, just fantastic. All you have to do is eat the same foods and the same sounds will come out of your body. I love that theory of biology. I had a putteen today. I should be able to sing like Celendion. I think I will test that theory at karaoke today.

Why not now? You got a microphone. It just stopped working for that reason. This is so weird. Oh, yeah. That was beautiful, Dillan. We had to cut that for copyright reasons, but when we get a Patreon, we'll post it. Okay, so we don't have like a lot to go off for strategy and in terms of like,

changing of social positions within this group. But how do you see the like hierarchy of this group out of the gates here? It's definitely being framed as like Natalie and Marcus are kind of the vets of this scene, like the ones who know the ropes, who, uh, who you kind of have to like go through if you want to establish yourself. That seems to be the kind of what they're starting with that they're kind of like what Stasi and Jacks used to be as like, you know, they're, they're not the couple, but they're like kind of the power players who are, who are confident and know how everything works and expect to, to like get special treatment. So I'll be interested to see if that holds true. At the same time, like, I don't want to get too carried away with making comparisons to the original cast. You know,

we've done it a lot. I should probably like pump the brakes on that a little bit. But one more, like it does feel like Marcus is also kind of when his relationship with Kim. Like that's hard not to draw in comparison to Sandoval. Yeah. To the Sanneville and Kristen in season one and their starting position where they're like, you know, we're the couple, but we're obviously like at each other's throats all the time. And there's no way this is going to last. Like I'd be absolutely shocked if that relationship lasted in the first season.

Like it feels like we're picking up on it in like mid breakdown. Do you have any highlights that we haven't covered yet? So I really like the conversation that we have between Chris and Jason. on the beach in terms of like characters introducing themselves i think they did a really good job of intercutting between the confessionals of chris and jason like telling us about their lives uh with like these thoughts of them going on the beach i felt like that went a long way towards framing this idea of of them uh making a next big step in their life as being these people who have that performative positivity that these like lace drivers seem to be obliged to

have because that's what everybody wants to hire is somebody who is like like unflaggingly positive but are also like I say Chris is like being very open about like all the different gigs he does like and they have some interesting conversations about like oh what do you have gone this way go I'm doing a dance like oh dance again and then they like make little references to like stuff they've done the past like oh when we're male strippers what was our what was our thing called again oh yeah the uh the what I wrote it down what do they call themselves oh the exotic nights. That's pretty good,

actually. But I liked that where even though they are performing positivity so much, you can't help but feel like there's a sort of fatigue setting in. And we get that with the intercuts of them, like going out and hitting the waves.

They're going surfing. You know, the very obviously Southern California thing to do. But they're like immediately Jason. It's like, ooh, the waves are really big out there and kind of like eats shit. And then,

Chris goes up to him after it's like, oh, what happened? And Jason replies, life. You know, they sneak in the idea that beneath the veneer of performative positivity, there is a sort of fatigues seeping in. And I like the way that that plays into the idea that by accepting this gig to be reality TV servers, they have both made a big step towards making it, towards being the celebrity figures at LA. They want to be. which is also a big step that forecloses on a lot of other future possibilities too. I think that's part of the kind of devil's bargain that you make by accepting this kind of gig. And I think that has to be something that all these performers are aware of.

And I think that's one of the unstated people. Oh, I was going to say, there's not a really well-worn path from reality star to like A-lister. Exactly. It's never happened, right? Like, it's never happened. Like, sorry, you're not going to be Ariana Grande, too. you're not going to be playing the lead in the live action, a tangled movie if you're doing a Bravo show. It's just never happened.

Like, nobody stepped out of a Bradville show it onto the stage at the Grammys or the Oscars. That career path has never actually manifested. So, like, on the one hand, yes, you are making a huge step forward in terms of visibility in terms of probably salary, promotion opportunities, you know, and all that. But you are foreclosing on a lot of your dreams of. being an actual movie star, actual performing star, because nobody who goes at a Bravo store actually becomes a huge star in like the traditional Hollywood system. And that's really interesting to me too, because that's part of the way that these shows are

sort of relatable, but just in like a fun house mirror surreal kind of way. Like maybe literally relatable to some people who are like in LA, in that world, live in that grind. But for most of us, people who aren't in that, it still does kind of speak to the idea of like becoming an adult and like choosing a life, which may be awesome in a great life, but which necessarily forecloses on these like imagined scenarios, which were part of your life as you had had thought it might possibly work out if everything worked out possibly to the way you might have hoped it could have. You know, every, every choice of a life is the non-choice of

many others that you may have imagined. And I think that this kind of kind of like carnivalesque version of that for people who want to be in the public eye is like a really interesting way to see that idea portrayed. And I think that having these people who have these dreams of being movie stars who are kind of accepting but also settling to be reality TV stars and knowing that that's probably something they're thinking about in the back of their heads, even if they're not necessarily allowed to explicitly state that is a really interesting thing. And I feel like we kind of feel that tension in that, those moments between Chris and Jason, who are being like really broie and really encouraging and like really pumping each other up

and to continue the positivity, to continue that kind of game of being very confident of being saying yes to opportunities and living the dream while also surely knowing that they're accepting above a budget version of that dream and that they're making a Mephistophilian deal in order to do that as well. Yeah, that's a great point and that's actually not something that I really picked up on but that is a fantastic point. That as Bruce Springsteen would say

like a trading in your wings for wheels moment where they're making this decision to go for what is attainable, what is potentially like stable is a really fascinating thing for them to reckon with because I think they were able to tell themselves that not only did they want to be a celebrity, but they wanted to be like an artist. They wanted to be a performer. And I think that when you make the decision to take on the job of being a reality TV star,

that is a role that not many people are going to recognize the artistry in that or what it goes into. There's there's only one Bravo outsider podcast and you should hit. subscribe right now because we're the only place that is recognizing these people for the artists that they are. But that is something that has to be front of mind because as you're like a young person growing up and you're like, I want to not just like be a celebrity. I want to perform. I want to be a great actor. I want to be the Timothy Chamile of my generation. And I want to yeah. And when you have to like give that all up and be like actually I just want to be famous. I just want to be like I just want to be a celebrity and this is my path to get there. I think you have to reckon with what that kind of

means for for yourself if that's how you view it. Unless you do view yourself as an artist still, which I think that, you know, obviously we come here week after week making a case that yes, these people are artists, but I think even a lot of people on these shows don't identify themselves that way. Did you have any other highlights that we haven't talked about? No, I don't think so. I think we basically, we basically discussed the most interesting scenes. I mean, like you said, we got to get to know these people. It's normal that the first episode isn't going to have the juiciest drama. We have to get to know them. And I think it was a good, a good setting of the table for that. Yeah, I agree. There were a couple other things that I wanted to

talk about, specifically Lisa Vanderpump. I was happy to see that we get a sit down scene between her and an employee here because that is such a staple throughout the course of Vanderpump rules where she has to take on this role as the heavy for this person. So we got to sit down between her and Natalie. I thought that was a great callback to what we have seen throughout the history, but also it was great to build the character of Natalie. So I really love that. And I also really love her moment during the staff meeting where she has to be like the, the drill sergeant, pacing back and forth in front of this group and whipping people into shape, really repositioning Lisa Vanderpump as an authority figure as being above these people and

imposing that structure on this cast, which has been something that fell away in late Vanderpump rules. That was something that we had to pretend to believe in as viewers. But really, they were all peers on that show because, you know, they would pretend to come to Lisa Vanderpump for advice, but really, like, at the end of the day, it didn't matter. She wasn't really holding the keys to the car. Yeah, yeah. And it really did feel similar to a lot of the ways that she would treat Jacks, the way that she treated Marcus in that scene,

making a point of dressing him down in front of everybody in a staff meeting after Marcus had kind of positioned himself to the cameras and to the newbies as like, I'm kind of the, the blaze king of this place. You know, nobody will ever fire me. and I can run this kingdom the way I want to. He said, you can't fire me. Like, it was very much like Jack's telling Lisa Vanderpump, this is my show. He said, like, they could never, they could never fire me.

And then he gets, get sent off. Yeah, that's a, that's a great call. And that scene at that scene at the end where production is chasing after him, I thought was fantastic as well, because we see. It's like he just left a congressional hearing or something, you know, like we start up with a shot of like a boom mic and like, The camera scrum like closing it around him. But that like the stability of the fourth wall being like shaken by the end of this I thought was a really good bookend. And you know, it is a reflection of the end of the last season of Vanderpump rules where it all falls away.

We see that this this fourth wall, it's not it's not so rigid. It's very fragile. It's it's wobbly. And so the fact that we get to see this boom mic for an extent. period of time in producers talking before they frame them up and bring us back into the world was just really nice intentional or not i just i really like that inclusion yeah you called it a bookend what's the first bookend you just mentioned that it was it was Lisa commanding the frame to be adjusted and then it ends with the frame being maladjusted after marcus crashes clashes with lisa yeah

overall really excited about about this season really excited that vanderpump rules is is back because obviously the people, the cast is the biggest question mark for this show, I think. If the cast can deliver, it's going to be great. All of the people involved, like production has just such a great history of, you know, sticking the landing on this show. So as long as they are able to get even reasonable chemistry, I think that we're in for some good TV. It might take a while to find its legs, but I have faith. I'm feeling very enthused by this.

What about you? Yeah, I am too. And I was not expecting that. You know, I kind of thought I would watch this episode and be like, you're really going to try to revive this corpse? Like, um, but as soon as like Natalie opened her mouth, I was like, oh, who's this? Like, yeah, and then, you know, like I said, I like Marcus. I like Shane. There's some potential on some of the other people that Chris, like is, like, was immediately very bland. But like I said, the way he started presenting himself.

I was like, okay, yeah, I could, I could follow you as an audience insert. I feel excited about this cast. I think they found some good people and I did not expect them to find personalities this good. So yeah, let's see what they cook. Yeah, totally.

You know, going in, I think everyone had question marks. I don't think that all those questions are answered, but it's like, it's almost like how do you, how do you think that you could even possibly reboot something as iconic as digressy?

Well, guess what? Degrassy the next generation is just, says good, if not better. I think that we could see a digressy situation here on Vanderpump rules. Some Canadian hot takes being dropped right here. Who are your three stars here? I think we probably have similar stars. Probably, yeah. Let's go number one, Natalie. Great, great, great, great personality. Number two, we'll go with Marcus, did a really good work. You mentioned Craig that his confessional were very good, did a great job introducing the vibes, the relationships, the other people,

not just talking about himself, but really framing other people, which is an important quality, maybe an underrated important quality for reality TV start to have. So let's give out number two. Number three, I'm tempted to go with Lisa Vanderpump. I feel like you might take that rude Craig, but I got to go with Shane Davis. I like Shane Davis a lot. I like his his almost physically present confidence

and I thought he was funny too just a funny guy. His relationship with Natalie really funny. Also, one thing that I want to just point out quickly is that I love the part where Natalie concedes a hug to Shane as part of their like flirtation. And when she goes in for a hug,

she's staring at everybody else but him. Like completely ignoring him. It's so obvious that she's doing this for everybody. else. Like this is her like power play. Yeah. That little detail made me feel like, yeah, we're good heads with these personalities. I have the same number one and number two as you, Natalie and Marcus, Undeniable, one and two. Number three, I think I want to give it to Chris. I think like he's very good functionally as this proxy, this introduction to the world. You made a great point about how he has like immediate emotional

stakes and we are wrestling with this this question through his eyes about you know whether he's giving up his dreams i i really like that that put him firmly into number three one person that we haven't talked about that i want to kind of talk about is is kim i think that she actually does a great job of like making us feel this like paranoia that that she has like she's very worried about her relationship with marcus i think that she does a a great job of adding emotional, emotional stakes here. Yeah. Interesting to see more from Kim outside of her just coming off as an insecure girlfriend

because we didn't see very much. So it'll take some more. But that seems to be the way she's framed. I mean, her introduction is given to us by Demi, who says something like, Kim is Marcus's girlfriend. That's about it. That's how she's framed for this episode. So that's obviously, you can't build up.

every character in the first episode. There's just not enough runtime for that. So let's see who she actually is moving forward. Demi also did a really good job in her confessionals, I think. She gave herself a really good introduction. I've been here for however long, and they asked me to be a system manager because I was bossing everyone around. That immediately tells us so much about her character.

And yeah, I just thought that was a really great introduction. Yeah, yeah. She comes off as very brusque right off the bat, and that's great. Yeah, totally. Well, I think Thadapo does it for this week. I'm glad we could squeeze this episode in since I'm traveling and you're traveling and, you know, things are getting busy. Dylan, do you want to let people know where they can find you? Yeah, you could find some of my writing about movies on substack. Just look for my name. That's Dylan Ferguson. I'm Craig Midwinter. You can just find me manning our social media accounts, very sparingly at Bravo Oates. or on Instagram and TikTok, don't bother subscribing there.

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