Oscars Outsider - Medium-ruined by being Medium-rude (RHONY S14E06, Bethenny's interview with Rachel Leviss)

Episode Date: August 22, 2023

The multiverse has collapsed and both Sandy and Dylan are back to discuss the Real Housewives of New York S14E06 and Bethenny Frankel's interview with Rachel Leviss! We talk about the hyper-locality of Housewives shows, we talk about Brynn Whitfield, Jenna Lyons, Sai De Silva and Jessel Taank stirring it up at Erin Lichy's anniversary party. Also a preview of Dylan's new podcast "The Devil You Don't" Chapters: 00:00 - Intro 02:15 - Roundtable: Local Flavour 19:45 - Real Housewives of New York S14E06 37:16 - Raquel/Bethenny interview 50:39 - Outro/The Devil You Don't teaser Find Dylan on substack at ⁠https://dylanferguson.substack.com/ Find "The Devil You Don't" on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7hOB8oEoZBn59iFHZTLkPa Find Sandy Klowak on Instagram at ⁠https://www.instagram.com/corporealcurios⁠ https://www.bravooutsider.com Music by FASSounds from Pixabay

Hello and welcome to another episode of Bravo Outsider podcast. Joining me, as usual, is Dylan Ferguson. Dylan, how's it going? Oh, it's going good. It's going great. I've been sitting in the sun all day, so I'm just living a dream right now. I'm just going to be talking really slowly and just not hearing anything anybody says, I think. Yeah, you're looking a little dehydrated. You need like a big water bottle like this. I just got that on Amazon. My wife absolutely hates it.

What do you do with it? What do you need that for? Well, you don't. It's actually really impractical, but if I admit that now, it's like I'm admitting to see. Specifically, why did you buy it? So that I would have a lot of water on me at any given time. I thought it would be more practical. What given time are you using this for?

You always need to hydrate. You always need to hydrate. Yeah, I stay hydrated. Exactly. the voice you heard was Sandy Kloak joining us again who has been filling in for Dylan. Sandy, how are you doing? I'm doing all right and it's nice to actually finally be in the same universe as Dylan at the same time as him. Yeah, it's nice for you too.

This is a multiverse episode we're doing right now. Yeah, big time multiverse. The kids love those. But Dylan, you've been away. You've been working hard on an amazing podcast. I just listened to the first episode today. and it's fantastic. It's called The Devil You Don't.

Do you want to give like just a little bit of a teaser about what it's about? Yeah. So yeah, the first episode just came out Friday. It's going to be a four episode series. So pretty brief. It's kind of a history show, kind of a cryptozoology show. It's about the Jersey devil, which is like a weird, creepy little guy that you find out in the Pine Barrens forest of New Jersey. But it's really about like 300 years of American history.

and like weird people and weird things in American history that have intersected and created this legend. And kind of about what we can learn. I think about like what the creation of the modern world is through tracing little stories related to this weird little dude in the woods. Yeah, I thought it was absolutely fascinating. One of the things that you had mentioned in the intro to it was that how learning about like cryptids, it kind of necessitates learning about. the region in which they are a part of because they're so hyper local. That got me thinking about, you know, the housewife franchises and how it's got a similar, maybe a little more subtle effect in that way, where anytime you're engaging with these shows,

you are learning a bit about the region in which they take place. So I thought it would be a really fun discussion to have, talk a little bit about the geography and regional history and how that adds flavor to these shows. Did you find any sort of maybe not parallels, but how do you see the regions that Housewives franchises take place? How do you see them colored by their locality? Well, I will say that when I read an Atlantic article from 1859, where the writer W.F. Myers refers to the residents of the Pine Bear,

as rats. That really made me a gasp and clutch my pearls because I know from housewives how horrible that is for the Italian New Jersey community. Like the truth is, Daniel called her a rat. What? There's a lot you could call us that we don't get offended in New Jersey. You could call us a . You could call us a mother . . But rat is probably the number one thing that you don't want to call someone. I do I've said it before on the show. One of the things I do love about the Housewives shows is that you get these little windows often just in passing into a regional specificity and just like little characteristics and traditions that are particular to specific areas.

New Jersey has a lot of great stuff like that. You know, when they pronounce mozzarella like mozarel and stuff, there's some good good stuff. Miami, you know, when they're talking about the botanica, which inspired me to go visit a botanica back a million years ago when the show was a little baby. I think that was in 1996 when we were doing that episode. But that's something that I love about these shows because it's something that is rarely captured in like pure fiction. Like a few screenwriters, I think, are going to like be able to muster enough specific regional details that instead of it just feeling like an obvious like uh hand off like oh we're in chicago the pizzas deep um that that will feel like

genuine little uh that a genuine color genuine shading that really just fill out the world and just give it a sense of reality uh and i think when we talk about why reality tv feels more real um that's one of the kind of underrated aspects of it alongside, you know, unscripted dialogue that that can sound, you know, rambling and weird, but more true to the way people actually talk, etc., is just what fills the world that they live in is all these specific traditions that are never quite captured by fictional depictions of the world that are so important to the way that we live. You know, there's so much just random ephemera that makes up our cultural milieu, you know, some random restaurateur did something stupid on his grill. And now it's like an enshrined local tradition that like everybody has to eat this one weird fucked up thing.

All these little specific things are just, that's just the things that make the world feel so much more rich and colorful. And lived in and true. And that's, I feel like an underrated aspect of what makes these, these. show so addictive to me, I guess. Yeah, totally. And one of the things that stood out to me while I was watching New York this week, or throughout this season actually, is how much the local geography really adds a lot of depth to these shows, like watching this brand-new cast kind of operate within New York.

It's almost like watching a sculptor. carving a map out of rock and seeing all these kind of landmarks and these famous neighborhoods be uncovered by these housewives as they're operating. Like just this past episode of New York that we're watching, we hear Aaron say that she doesn't like going above Canal Street. Right. That would be racing to Google Maps. Where's Canal Street again?

Yeah, exactly. The upper limit of Tribeca, I think. All right. Yeah. Got it. Okay. But just like seeing how these people and how they operate within these cities and their neighborhoods and their communities, you know, we, yes, there are a lot of inorganic pieces

of real housewives and they're thrown together inorganic situations. But still behind all of that, we still. get to see them, how they operate as people within these communities and these spaces and these like, yeah, the physical spaces that they operate in. We see that that shine through and it's really interesting to see how strong of a grasp that relationship has on on people, you know, how it influences the way that you work and act and live. We see that on such a, like a small scale, like the neighborhoods of New York, and also on like a broad scale, like it feels to me like there's like a distinct difference between East Coast and West Coast

housewives. There's like kind of a tonal difference between them that is really, it's really, it's really present and that it mirrors the idea that I've got in my head of the East and West Coast of the United States. So I find that really interesting. these shows. Totally. And we talked in other episodes, Craig, about the suburban landscape and how that affects things. And that's really, you know, on my mind, there's this richness. I've said many times to New York and to, excuse me, New Jersey, or New Jersey, even though there is a suburban element to it, there's just this, like, I guess, cultural depth that, like, Dylan was talking about. And I've, in the California shows, like, it just feels empty. It's like this void, and it's, it's like, suburbs, there's not enough, there's not enough going on there. This idea of culture and heritage feels empty there too. And I don't know if like that's just sort of this narrative that we have of it's kind of this neutral neutral culture. I don't know. What do you guys, what is your take on that? Yeah, I definitely agree. Like just thinking about the example that we're

seeing this season where Taylor, who was previously on Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, join the cast of Orange County. If you were to typically see a housewife make an appearance on, you know, on different franchise, it feels almost like an exchange student. Like there's a cultural exchange that happens there. I remember, like, when I first started watching Real Housewives, I think it was a Beverly Hills trip that went to New York and, like, Bethany made an appearance.

And it was like, oh, world's colliding, but this is still, like, really interesting. and it felt like a cultural exchange, whereas, you know, Taylor going from Beverly Hills to Orange County doesn't have that same kind of weight to it. And I mean, yes, it's not as much of a geographic leap. But also, I think, like you said, Sandy, the kind of the landscape of suburban L.A. and maybe L.A. proper. there's just not a very distinct culture between the two. Even though Beverly Hills definitely is going for a more higher echelon of wealth than Orange County, it's still, she doesn't feel very out of place.

Yeah. Well, I think in Orange County in particular, you know, I've described it as just white women in the void because it's just such like a cultural, like empty, like liminal zone that they inhabit, which is one of the things I love about it. And I think it's comparing New York to OCE is really interesting because in both cases, they're not shows that are really showcasing people who have strong regional traditions from the area they're in. In both cases, there are people who come from other places who are there in most cases,

right? Like maybe Aaron is a real New York or whatever. You know, some of them are. But mostly it's people who come from outside and who end up there. And Orange County is the same thing. But you're on opposite ends of the spectrum. in the sense that in Orange County, it's like a parking lot.

It's a cultural void. Where in New York, it has such a distinct cultural identity that it's like an impressive thing. Like wherever you come from, there's so much pressure to destroy your regional cultural identity once you arrive in New York because the city itself imposes all these very precise definitions based on specific neighborhoods

and specific codes. and stuff like that. So I think it's really interesting to compare the two as like places where people from other parts of America have clustered. And in New York, there's like a punishing pressure almost to like to forget where you're from in an Orange County. It'll it'll be like, you know, you have two women from the Midwest being like, oh, we both like ordered a cocktail and a Pepsi at the same time. That's such a Midwest thing. And clinging to these bizarre shreds of like a geographically located cultural heritage

as like bits of floats them in the middle of the ocean, like just grabbing onto anything as a life raft because they're just living in these vacuous mansions with no culture anywhere in sight, no history, no sense of place. Yeah, that's a really good point. I forgot about that one. That was, yeah. Do you guys relate to the shows you, watch based on your experience with the locations because that's something I was thinking about.

I've gushed about New York a lot to Craig and I love it. So I'll watch anything that takes place there. I find that these shows can be a little bit like travel. You know, you're getting that as we're talking about that experience to an extent. And I find that I relate to shows more where I've, I've been there. I have a connection to the place, even if it's just as a tourist once or twice. but there's a few shows that come to mind. And there's a couple, there was Texicana's, and that was a Bravo one-off season, unfortunately, about women in San Antonio, Texas that had Mexican heritage.

So it was kind of culture-based, that was the premise, which I thought was interesting, maybe a bit heavy-handed, but at the same time, I think that's interesting, and I think it was cool, and they wove that into the stuff that was going on, which was also just regular drama. there was also Mexican dynasties that took place in Mexico City and was three families. It was a little goofy, but I really liked it. And those are both places I've been, that San Antonio very randomly for a work trip.

And then we stayed and toured. But it really made me connect to the show. And I like the, I like the premise as well, that they were kind of leaning into that cultural aspect and showed some diversity, which is always nice. And I don't know. So I don't know if you guys have watched either of those or have thoughts on how you relate in that way. Yeah.

I've been to like very few actual housewife cities. Like I think I've been to New York is I went on a work trip. But aside from that, I haven't really spent a lot of time in any, um, any of the housewife city. So I think New York is probably the one that I've got the most kind of, uh,

understanding of and like grounding. But that doesn't come from my lived experience going there. It's mostly informed, by the media that I watch. And it's interesting to see how different, you know, the sort of real New York that I have been presented with on these shows is from the one that like I've seen portrayed in popular culture.

Like there's definitely like clear parallels, but to see it on real housewives, it just, it feels so much more like a living, working, organic city than, anything that could be shown within a fictional presentation. Yeah, most of these cities I'm entirely unfamiliar with. Like, I'm definitely familiar with New York, but I think like Craig, I'm mostly referencing like Scorsese movies in my mind rather than like personal memories.

The one show where I do that with, I think, is probably Vanderpump Rules because I do know L.A. a little bit, and I do think that that show does actually have like a great sense of L.A. as a place in a way that Beverly Hills doesn't because it's not like really in L.A., but Vandermpump Rules kind of is. And there's definitely moments where, like, they go to a place where I've been to it. I'm like, oh, yeah, that's so cool. And, you know, I know if I were there, my whole trip, the only reason I'll go to L.A. again is to do, like, a Vanderpump Rul's restaurant tour.

So that's otherwise you won't see me there, but that would make it worth it for me. So place-based. Like, it's these places. I mean, of course, they own half the restaurants, but it's, yeah, it would be really cool to just kind of walk the places they walk. I went to Florence, I went to Florence, and all we did was go to all the places that Jersey Shorecast went to when they did their season. It's a lot of key museums, but we did some pizza places that they went to. I was just thinking about the international housewives franchises that I've watched, which is only the Canadian ones.

So there is Real Housewives of Vancouver and Real Housewives of Toronto. And I feel like both of those did an okay job of capturing those cities, which are two cities that I'm a lot more familiar with than any of the American franchises. but still I think that that's one of the things that is kind of lacking about those productions is there isn't the same sort of attention to detail in terms of capturing the space that they're in. It's kind of just take this format and cast people from that city as opposed to actually try to capture some of the regional, not charm, but the regional flavor. Yeah, I haven't seen those.

But there was a lot of good regional flavor. And that one where they had like hockey wives, that was a good show. Oh, I haven't watched hockey wives. I should. What are you saying that? I was thinking like, oh, which one of I've seen? I've said one of those. And then I remembered, oh, no, it wasn't either of those.

It was the hockey wife show that I watched. You should definitely watch Real Housewives of Vancouver, though. It is like, it is very good. Real Housewives of Toronto, you can totally skip because that one was a waste of time. Yeah, that Vancouver got out of control. Oh, go ahead. Like it literally got, didn't it get canceled because it was too dangerous for them to be together or something? I remember hearing that.

Anyway, it's intense. Oh, what? Yeah, there was restraining orders against, why, against each other. It was pretty wild. Okay, I do want to see that now. If you could pick one Canadian city to do real housewives, then what, which one would you pick? Oh, Montreal, for sure. Oh, yes.

Yeah? I think, I think it would be fun to do something like East Coast, you know? Do like Halifax. Yeah. how, no, St. John's would be even better. Like, just, like, really, like, thickly accented, weirdos. Have, like, some, like, fish barons and, I don't know.

Lobster catchers, like, the richest lobster catcher's wife. I think that'd be fun. I'm going to vote for Regina. Yeah, I think, like. Oh, Regina, I know. Yeah, that'd be, like, like, Winnipeg, I'd feel like it's the, worst match for a housewife city. Just, you know, there's not a high degree of wealth or glamour here.

But I could see like a place like Calgary, which is a city. Yeah, that makes total sense. I hate Calgary as a city, but I could see it being a good bit for a housewife. There's a lot of new wealth there, so it makes sense. Yeah, totally. you guys have any other thoughts or should we move into real housewives of new york i think we should get to the we should get to the business all right yeah let's get into it this uh this was a an all right episode uh i've been really enjoying real housewives of new york so far i think that

this was really mostly one of the episodes that we often see where they're laying the groundwork for uh an explosive fight uh that is still to come but there was there was some fun moments here. Out of the gate, Sandy, what were your highlights here? I thought there was a couple of cool moments where you really saw the wealth disparity. There was just a couple comments. Aaron had those diamond earrings on and she, it was 224,000 and she's like, that's a down payment on a house. I'm like, well, that's also a house and a half in a certain neighborhoods in our city. So just Just little things where you're like, wow. I mean, I'm not shocked.

I know like the market is crazy, especially in the States, et cetera. But it's just like, oh, yeah. And similarly, Jessel's $62,000 a year for preschool was a bit of a jaw dropper. And I really, that was one. Yeah. Yeah. So that was a conversation that was awesome between Jessel and her husband. I really enjoyed that.

There was some comedic bull there where she asked him, are you on any boards other than your fried chicken committee. To be fair, the street food association of New York sounds awesome, even though New York's a shitty street food city, it does still sound awesome. I thought that was so funny. It was lovely. I found the discussion about preschool is kind of interesting to me

as a parent who's just sort of gone through the stressful, never-ending saga of trying to find child care for my kid. I'm definitely not paying 62K a year for it, but it was challenging to get daycare and decide about preschool, et cetera. So I kind of had this moment of like, oh, I can relate. And she said something about like, I did it all. My husband has no clue. And like just sort of the gender division of labor there.

I can relate to a little bit. But then, of course, when she said the 62K kind of went out the window on relatability, so that justice division was kind of interesting. And the status thing. Because you've heard that before where it's like, I don't know where, but it's sort of in that, in the cultural sort of understanding that like, how you, where your kid goes to preschool, like determines who your social circle is. I've definitely heard that on other shows somewhere.

So that was kind of interesting to see. Yeah, I've heard that that before too. And so this scene when I saw it, I was like, I always thought that that was satire. Like I thought, you know, I get, you know, your elementary, your primary school, whatever, that being kind of a statusy thing. But even though I'm a parent that has, you know, a preschool age child, I just assume that when you see that kind of, you see a scene like that where someone's like, oh, we got to get into this fancy preschool.

I always thought that that was satire. And to see that actually be a legit thing where someone is contemplating spending $62,000 a year for. For coloring. Yeah, for coloring, as Pabbitt puts it. It was really, really funny. It was shocking. Yeah, totally. Yeah.

I mean, I guess like C. Jessel's argument, her argument isn't like what the kid's getting out of it. It's like who you're going to meet when you pick the kid up after. Well, first she kind of started with, oh, it's going to be amazing. And this is so important for the development. But it quickly streamed into the benefits for her about reading Tom Cruise's kids there. Reading Tom Cruise, etc. So, yeah, we'll see.

That's a storyline that I'm not not interested in. So that's kind of cool. And I love the point. party drama. As you said, Craig, it's kind of setting it up for something nice next episodes. We didn't quite get the follow through here, but love, love petty arguments about people's crappy parties. That's what I live for on these shows. That's why I'm here. So I don't need, like, I kind of went on last, like last time I was on about, you know, O.C. and this whole Shannon, like her relationship being destroyed. And it's like, I don't even really want something

that high stakes. I don't actually need someone's relationship. I need someone's party to be like medium ruined by them overreacting to someone doing something like medium rude. That is where it's at. Okay, the party did look fucking terrible though, right? Like that was so, they're like in a bank with like galaxy lights on the walls and then just listening to the worst wedding speeches you've ever heard in your life. And like, why can't she have food? She's been already like totally flame for not giving food at her last event. Like have a lot of food, Aaron.

Come on. Did you really not at least have one tin of caviard, a tube of pretzels you could offer people? It was a very disappointing, like dollar to fun ratio. With all those sponsors behind it too. Where did their money go? Just on galaxy lights on the bank walls? Yeah. I did appreciate that a girl's like hair caught on fire.

Yeah. I would have liked to have gotten better footage of that, but that's pretty sweet. They did, they did their best of what they had, though. They really gave us the slow-mo, like, crappy footage version of that. But wow. Yeah, we got the infographic overlay. It was play-by-play with the axes. Yeah.

I thought that this was a, a really good party like you said it had all the qualities that you want to see in terms of it being kind of shitty and being medium ruined and just enough to like you know piss someone off because they clearly spend a lot of money on something and yeah I think everyone kind of used it to their advantage I was very happy to see sigh leave early without saying good to Aaron. She has really been the one member of this cast so far that I feel like has not really found a groove or really brought much to the table for me. But now I feel like seeing her have this pattern of being a little bit entitled and like piecing out early and hypocritical. I'm I'm kind of buying Cy a little bit more. I think that this was a a little bit better of an episode for her in my books in terms of what I'm looking for in a housewife.

But yeah, for me, the standout for this episode was still Jessel. I think, I don't know, I feel like she is giving a lot more than I was expecting it of her off of the premiere in the early episodes. I think, you know, we're seeing, we didn't see Jessel the villain so much. this time we saw her kind of at peace and still being you know giving us an interesting personal story we got her

being kind of playful and building some dynamic with with Bryn and yeah I just I was very impressed again with Jessel and what she's what she's doing here

there was a moment where they were there was a scene between Bryn and Jessel at like the stylist and I liked how Jessel was kind of framed the making piece

the peaceming that she did with Aaron in the past episode and she was also just put it out there like you know Aaron's got a problem with Cy Aaron's got a problem with everyone I think the common denominator is Aaron and kind of like flipping that back onto her but not in a way that was so you know outwardly aggressive that it's going to start

something that like brin is it's going to give brin something that she can do something with if she wants to stir up shit uh it's a piece of information that she can use later but it's not something that it's so like big that she has to immediately run back to aaron where you know otherwise she's going to be like well why didn't you bring that to me immediately right like that's Yeah, it gives her a football to run with that she doesn't immediately need to, you know, hand off in order to make something happen. So I like this being put out there in the air.

And I'm liking that things are kind of turning in on errand because she's another person that has kind of not been giving a lot, I think. So at least if she's able to be a fun target, that that's going to add some fun for me. with this cast. I don't agree. I don't agree about Aaron. I think she's doing a lot. I mean,

she's throwing so many bad social events, never giving anyone food, getting really upset about everything everyone says about her. So I have to disagree on that one. She's making sure everybody's hangary at her events. She's setting that up perfectly. I think Uber, as lovely as she is,

is the least, the least working housewife for me on this so far. Heresy. She does hate jobs. Yeah. Yeah, so fair enough. I respect that. It's fine.

Yeah. Yeah, no, I think that that's fair. Like, I think Uba has been bringing kind of a fun factor. She is, she's giving Sonia Morgan. Like, I feel like she's this cast. Sonia, just kind of this, you know, very whimsical and injecting the fun, not necessarily causing a lot of drama, but making every scene that she's in a lot of fun. You have to have that balance, so I'm totally fine with that.

Yeah, I still love her for her ethereal weirdness and just how she seems to have arrived on Earth a week ago. And that's, I just love how everything about her is, is, everything she says and does is just slightly bizarre. So that's, I'm always going to root for the weirdos. And now that we know that she has a hot sauce, her tagline is a little less bad, right? Maybe.

Oh, the ingredient thing? Her own hot sauce. I don't know. I was, I love the tagline, but mostly like I'm, like I said, because it's straight down,

it's straight down the middle. And it has the word darling in it. Like she's fucking May West in the night. 30s. It was so classic. It's just like very straightforward, classic old school. But yeah, you're right. It does make more sense now that I know that she's somewhat involved in the food industry. Dylan, what were your highlights from this episode? I'm also excited by the possibility of Jessel building an anti-Aren coalition. I would be there for that. And I want, I want to see them turn on Aaron because I'm also a little tired of

of Aaron. I find that she's just like her jokes aren't funny and that there's just just she hasn't done anything like wrong yet, but there's just like kind of enough of like a whiff of entitlement and just being like kind of bland and unfunny that I'm just kind of not abused by her presence. And between like in the conflict between her and Jessel, I, I 10% agree with Jessel. Like just like giving a slight like razzing to your friends as like, what you should be doing. And I do think it's normally kind of bullshit when people are like, oh, well, you know, where I come from, that's not a big deal.

But like, it's fair that Jessel is English. And I don't know if you guys have any English friends. But, you know, that's what you do. English people are always constantly fucking insulting each other and calling each other fucking cuts and shit. And it's fun. That's how people should be. It's nice to insult your friends all the time.

And if other people are too, like, humorless in their American way to enjoy it. it. Well, yeah, that's kind of a them issue. So I do like the idea that Jessel is using this as a wedge to like, try and get people on her side against, uh, against, and I hope it develops along that path, because I would be, uh, even more team Jessel in that sense. Um, I do want to start talking about this, this shitty party even more because it was so, these speeches we got were so bad. Uh, and when you think that those were the clips they chose to present you in the final cut. Like how much, how much shit were they slogging through?

And the fact that Abe is using Grateful Dead lyrics. Yeah. That is like the most cringe thing you could think of because seriously, like if it was like quoting like Harry Potter or like, I don't know, Transformers Rise of the Fallen or something, it would at least be like somewhat like nostalgic age appropriate. But since when do they even make? dead heads like under 60 when did that start even existing like why are you why are you a deadhead

at your age and then it's just the weirdest thing it's so bad and and it's not even funny he's saying like the blandest things than being like yeah that's a grateful dead lyric and then then erin being like yeah i appreciate you so much reading blatantly off her phone uh but I mostly appreciate the coffee you put on my bedside in the morning. But I'm, and then those are like fucking like smiling to the audience. Like, isn't that a good one? Like, no, shut up.

Jesus Christ. This is the worst. So, yeah, I am. And that also made me appreciate Brin's like very cheap and obvious flirting with everybody, which is something that's been kind of like annoying to me about Bryn. Not that she's like flirting with everybody. That's cool. but just like how like obvious she is and like just how like simple and straightforward her flirting is.

But I like it more in this episode. I'm trying to say nice things about Bryn. My dad told me I have to. But it is really funny to go to go to like a really like lame party and then just be like, all right, I'm just going to like hit on her brother and her husband who she's renewing vows with. and her father if I can get a pin down. Like that's like that's a funny thing to do it for me. So even if it's like very obvious,

it's still like a funny play. So I respect that a lot. Holy. Yeah, I love that she came in like kind of like half baked and like ready to make her own fun. Like clearly planning for a bit of a boring party. Yeah, kudos. Kudos to Bryn for that. I just another thing about Bryn.

another thing that made me like her more was when like they're trying to like interrogate her about her like three engagements that she called off or whatever and her response was like it's easier to say yes I was like yeah I understand that I feel that I feel like if like if somebody proposed to me that I didn't want to marry I'd probably be like yeah I'll work my way out of this down the line I don't want to I don't want to deal with this right now so I'll just say yes and we'll figure away out further along the line I can I can get that. Totally. Fair enough.

Yeah, I think we covered most of my highlights for this as well. Did you guys? Oh, one thing that I think I noticed was that was Jessel wearing the same like dress as Raquel was when she did her like Stadler and Waldorf routine on Vanderpupup Rules. She had the big like puffy fringes. It looked very similar. I don't, wasn't Raquel wearing a pink thing? and wasn't jessle what you're talking about it does now that you say that it does you know when i saw jessel in that

i was like i think that's her like weird dressing gown please let it be her weird dressing gown and then she showed up at the party with it i was like but yeah i think i know what you're talking about so i guess it's a look it's uh yeah yeah it's very 2023 the year of the scandivall uh we'll have to do a side by side on on here of the graphics and see if it lines up. I think that covers all of Real Hostwives of New York. I do want to talk a little bit about the interview between Raquel and Bethany on Bethany's latest podcast.

I had a chance to listen to all of it. Honestly, like, nothing really blew me away from this conversation. Just like my thoughts, I wasn't like scandalized by anything that she said. that it was, it mostly just kind of disappointed me. I feel like going onto Bethany's podcast and Bethany bringing Raquel on, just feels like a little bit of poor judgment on both of their parts for cheapening their, like, angles. Because I think, you know, Bethany's got a whole bunch of people that just, like, hate her.

And Raquel similarly does. And, you know, I think that what they were trying to do was to do something productive, but the energy like that both of them are receiving is just like so negative when they're not put together. So when you bring them together, obviously it's going to be like a whirlwind of negativity. And yeah, I just didn't feel like the right opportunity for kind of the positive thing. that Raquel is trying to do with, you know, bettering herself as a person and her, like, rehabilitating her image. And, you know, with what Bethany is trying to do with this, this labor movement for reality TV stars,

I get that there is, like, synergy there. I get that Raquel is a very, like, clear example, the type of person that needs protection. but it feels like there is maybe a better way that this could have been gone about. Yeah, that's just kind of like my immediate reaction. What were you guys, what did you guys think of this broadly, of what you've heard, at least? My reaction was very different from yours, I'll say. You definitely know more context than I do. It's usually the case.

You read more deeply into the universe than I do. so I appreciate that. But me just listening to the podcast, which I did today, I expected to like, you know, go through a little bit, maybe to hear some highlights. I was out for a long hike today and I was like,

I was like sitting on some rocks and I was like listened to all the episodes. Like I was my meditation app, you know, I was like, and I was emotional listening to it, honestly. I found it emotional. I'm exactly in the wheelhouse for the audience for this.

If there's, you know, two perspectives that I have endorsed multiple times on this show. It's workers' rights and the gospel of orthodox Raquelism. And to have

Dave, Rachel, like, just like describe everything in her own words without the band of Pumper Rules editing team piecing something together in the kitchen afterwards was, I thought, awesome for me to just like hear her speak.

Not that a podcast isn't edited too, you know, you know, peek behind the Emerald Curtain guys. But, but, you know, just to hear her directly speak and just like talk about how I, how everything went through from her perspective, I thought was like, what it was was really great to just like get to just get her, her side of everything on record like fully fleshed out was like, I felt like that was just like what I needed to hear, what we're waiting to hear. that Bethany actually did like a really good job of like being the the mother figure defending her a little bit conspiratorial at times Bethany's perspective true but you know she is coming from a you know a very a perspective of deep experience in that workplace environment knows what she's talking about and I respect that too and I totally have I totally support her her drive to have more workers protection for reality.

TV stars. And I do think that that Rachel's case is a great example of why they need more protections and hearing Rachel talk about things like how she discussed having like a mental health specialist on set and how that was then like withdrawn from her. And, you know, the way that she asked rightly, I think, to have like some of her care reimbursed to come back for the new season and had that, that request denied. I think these specific details about the way that that Bravo always isn't taking care of the stars who they're putting in like very difficult situations, very difficult mental emotional situations. I thought that context was very useful, actually.

And I thought seeing Rachel's story from that angle was very helpful. And I actually liked a lot. Yeah. I agree with Dylan. I think it was like cathartic, like you said, to hear her speak with. So, and the editing, but also the cast members just yelling and screaming insults at her that, like, the reunion was not, I don't know, it was kind of uncomfortable, like, the way she was abused as they talked about on the podcast.

And yeah, Bethany was like an overly sympathetic interviewer, but Rachel deserves that. Rachel has gone through a lot. Rachel has made them a shit ton of money, as they're saying. And what has she gotten for it? Absolute abuse and mental health crisis. And it was nice to hear. And then some of those inside details, as Dylan said, that give a bit of context on, yeah, exactly what's going on here. And the exploitation, I think of her and I think of Catherine on Southern Charm as the two people that are like, Catherine is like, oh, brutal.

Like her life was just destroyed by this industry. And it makes me feel a little icky thinking about that. So it's really, it's an important issue. and I'm sick of people screaming at her that she's subhuman. It's disgusting. And I'm like, you know, the reaction to this podcast, what I have seen is everyone saying, you know, she's lying and this isn't insane. But like, what are you actually angry at that a woman has been literally given a chance

to say her side of a story? Like, I'm sorry. How terrible. Yeah. I think like when I say like, um, it's poor judgment. I guess that's maybe strong or a poor choice of words, but in terms of what I was hoping for,

I would have liked, you know, I was, I'm really hoping that both Raquel or Rachel and Bethany are able to make ground in what they're trying to do. And it feels like they are just constantly being attacked. And I really wish that both of them had, you know, I feel like it was not the opportunity that either of them really deserved for this. Like I think in order to try to get people back on side, you need to like have a foundation for the foundation for the platform that you're telling your story.

on needs to be one where there's a little bit more of a mutual trust. And I feel like, you know, Bethany has her own motivations in what she's doing. And, you know, I think that those potentially under are being used to undermine what Raquel is trying to accomplish by appearing on this podcast. whether that's Bethany or Rachel's intention by this endeavor to this joint endeavor. I don't think that's the case. I think that both of the both of them are trying to honestly, you know, do what they think is right. But I think that just in terms of the reaction that we're seeing,

we're seeing people use, you know, Bethany as. a weapon to attack Rachel now and vice versa. And that is really not helpful, you know, for what both of them are trying to accomplish, which I think are things that I would really like to, you know, see gain some, some, some ground. But I did really appreciate getting to hear, you know, Rachel speak very honestly. It's very hard, like, for me to adjust to call. like her Rachel. After for a long time, it was like what the haters called her. It's the term she's embraced.

So it's like it's hard to switch gears. Yeah. It's important. Yeah. And I was always shocked at that at how no, everyone was so happy to like use a name she did not want. When in other contexts, we all agree that is really not okay. But nope, for her, a subhuman, it was fine.

That really pissed me off. Yeah. Yeah, totally. I think the way, you know, one of the things that this, watching this unfold, kind of brought back a lot of the emotions that I had while the Scandival was unfolding on our screens while Vanderpump Rules was airing and the reunions were airing. And there was all sorts of heightened emotions surrounding the situation because we were watching it take place each week.

And that was kind of what was. what was happening. But then, you know, she went into a mental health facility and, and she was gone for a very long time. And we haven't heard from her since. And now when she comes and is, you know, trying to speak her truth about the situation, seeing this same hate kind of manifests itself online, it feels even more disliked. disgusting and outrageous now because there isn't the same kind of on-screen weekly

reminder and this heightened drama that is driving this this hate engine to compel people to you know use her as as an outlet now it seems like just such pure malice and we're seeing play out in front of us the very different way that Tom Sandoval and her are being treated because we're seeing him in, you know, fan selfies with like cast like hugging each other. And I know that people are saying that we have to smile for the camera or whatever. but, you know, it does seem like not a whole lot has changed for him, whereas Raquel has clearly been very negatively affected and is living the effects of this. And to see people still want to pile on her and not see that much hate, you know, against, against Tom is, it's really frustrating. Like frustration is the emotion that it's bringing out of me when I'm going on Instagram ever since this podcast came out.

Totally. It's just pure basic, classic misogyny at this point, the way she's being treated. And they even address that in the show, right? There's this whole thing about the mistress always gets treated worse or the woman always gets it worse. But like that clearly didn't sink in for anyone. I don't know. It's so frustrating to watch exactly. Did you guys have any other thoughts on the podcast?

No, that's about it. I think I thought it was great listening. And you know what, congrats to Bethany for doing that, I think. I think that was a good move for her. Yeah, she said that she reached number one podcast in the world with this interview at some point. Someone showed her at number two on the Apple charts. Yeah, because obviously we're number one. Yeah.

I think she was going to get away with that. Yeah, it's us and then Bethany, Joe Rogan, then your podcast again. But episode two, you're going to shoot up, I promise. Joe's going down. Awesome. Well, this has been a really fun one. Sandy, do you want to let everyone know where they can find you? Yeah, I'm on Instagram at Corporal Curios.

and just search my name. Awesome. Dylan, right away, we're going to play a little clip that you provided a teaser for the devil you don't. Do you want to preface this with anything or let anyone know where they can look you up? Yeah, I mean, look that up. I'm really proud of it. I'll say that.

And I hope you'll enjoy it. So the devil you don't, you can find that, you know, where you're listening to this, probably. You can find it there. It'll be on it'll be on you know Spotify iTunes YouTube

don't expect to see my face there I only do that here but yeah please listen I would appreciate it a lot yeah it is a fantastic podcast the episode that I've listened to if you like listening to a podcast and then by the end of it you have like

12 Wikipedia tabs open then this is a great podcast for you because it's a lot of very interesting it's an interesting historic story and it's told in a really fun and engaging way so we're going to play that right now for you and now something about Leeds is devil I said to my friend

I will answer I will tell you replies Mr. B there lived in the year 1735 in the township of Burlington a woman. Her name was Leeds, and she was shrewdly suspected of a little amateur witchcraft. Be that as it may, it is well established that one stormy, gusty night, when the wind was howling in turrent and tree, Mother Leeds gave birth to a son, whose father could have been no other than the Prince of Darkness. No sooner did he see the light than he assumed the form of a fiend, with a horse's head, wings of a bat, and a serpent's tail. The first thought of the newborn Caliban was to fall foul

of his mother, whom he scratched and be pommeled soundly, and then flew through the window out into the village where he played the mischief generally. Little children he devoured, maidens he abused, young men he mauled and battered, and it was many days before a holy man succeeded in repeating the enchantment of Prospero. At length, however, leads his devil was laid, but only for 100 years. During an entire century, the memory of that awful monster was preserved, and as 1835 drew nine, the denizens of Burlington and the Pines looked tremblingly for his rising. Since 1835, he has frequently been heard howling and screaming in the forest at night to the terror of the rats in their lonely encampments. Nor indeed will you find many Jerseymen, who will brave the supernatural terrors of the gloomy forest at night,

and less secure the strength of numbers. I'm going to tell you a story about the Jersey Devil, but it's really a story about the creation of the United States of America and about the creation of the modern world in the sense that it's about the tensions between our belief in undefinable mystic forces and our confidence in what science and rationalism can do. We'll meet people over the course of 300 plus years of history who tried to develop new modern American perspectives and inadvertently birthed monsters from within the gaps in contradictions in their ideas. It's a story about, I think, how we all struggle together to define a world that continues to be stubbornly undefinable and beautifully undefinable. Ever hear of something called the Jersey Devil? Mulder, it's the same story I've heard since I was a kid. It's a folk tale, a myth. I heard the same story when I was a kid, too.

Funny thing is, I believed it. That about does it for Bravo Outsider this week. Be sure to check out The Devil You Don't, wherever you find podcasts. We're on Instagram. YouTube, Threads, X, TikTok, at Bravo Outsider or something like that, just Google it. Bravo Outsider.com. Be sure to like and subscribe. Give us a rating that helps us out a lot.

Tell your friends about us. That helps us out even more. Until next week, keep on wiping.