Oscars Outsider - MiaMind Over Splatter w/ Will O'Donnell (RHOM S5E16, VPR S10E05)

Episode Date: March 10, 2023

It's a partial Mind Over Splatter reunion this week as Craig and Dylan are joined by Will O'Donnell to talk about the season 5 finale of Real Housewives of Miami and Vanderpump Rules S10 E05 Find Dylan on substack at https://dylanferguson.substack.com/ [https://dylanferguson.substack.com/] Find Will on instagram at @casts_a_shadow [https://www.instagram.com/casts_a_shadow/] Find Mind Over Splatter on Youtube [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChgJdiC5VEYGdLcGjUON1aw] Music by FASSounds [https://pixabay.com/users/fassounds-3433550/?utm_source=link-attribution&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=music&utm_content=112194] from Pixabay [https://pixabay.com//?utm_source=link-attribution&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=music&utm_content=112194]

Welcome to Mind Over Splatter. We are reviewing the screen movies. As always, we've got Will O'Donnell here with us. Will, how's it going? It's going great. As usual, we have Sheldon Kilcote. Hold on. That's not Sheldon. Hold on. Welcome to the Bravo Outsider Podcast. I'm your host, Craig Midwinter. And with me, as always, is Dylan Ferguson. Dylan, what's happening? Not too much. You know, I'm trying to muddle. on as best I can in this post-scandival world where everything's changed and nothing is what we thought it once was. This is the new normal. It is.

And it's hard to wrap your head around that, you know, like just talking to people on the street and realizing that you just have to go on with your life. Like the other day, somebody was trying to talk to me about some bullshit about like Ukraine or something. And I was just like, this is very disrespectful of you right now, considering what we're all going through. But, you know, trying to move forward all the same. For sure. Well, if you haven't listened to the show before, each week we bring on a guest who doesn't follow Bravo and make them watch the shows to get their outsider perspective. This week, we're joined by Will O'Donnell. How's it going?

It's going as well as one can after such a force of nature is thrust upon my every sense. I'm in recovery, we'll say. Yeah, you seem a little shook. Dave. Yeah. What was it specifically about your experience watching this that was particularly rattling? The, that weird sense of experiencing what seems like everything, like just that's everything is possibly happening at once, but also somehow nothing.

like just like when a sheer wall of nothing hits you and you're you're sitting there and you're feeling it and so you're you're having this like existential crisis that nothing I'm being bombarded by nothing and yet it's overwhelming me it's exhausting me it's it's my senses recognize that something is here but it's like my soul feels like it's gone on hiatus. It's gone for smokes. It says, all right, I can't take this, but your body can, so it'll sit here.

Your soul went out to get smokes and a carton of milk, and it's still not back for some. Yeah, it, I mean, this has happened before. I, you know, it's my, it's just, it's my Christmas soul. I know when it comes time for holidays, it'll come back because it knows there's a free dinner, but outside of that, it's uh you know it's not even a weekend soul at this point what what you consider nothing i consider one of the most narratively dense experiences that you could have while watching television so i think we've got a very different perspective on on these things that i'm really excited to explore but before we get into it i do you want to just tell us a little bit about what your previous experience with reality tv or um uh shows like

like real housewives or Vanderpump rules? I recall like the early days of what, like I had a very strong interest in what seemed like the birth of whatever the current wave is like when Big Brother was a new thing. I'm, you know, I can't imagine I'm dating myself too badly here. It's not that long ago,

but I started when it was still like reality. Yeah, like reality TV still had a little bit of that game show aspect. And then I'll, you know, the Osbournes came around and I was intrigued as a huge metal head. And an Aussie fan, it's taken me years to accept that Ozzy Osbourne himself is just a, dancing bear for Sharon.

And so like it's just him being trollied out and he's not sure. He doesn't know where he is. But bless him, he still can perform. And so I, I had a, you know, I had a lot of the same infancy that everyone else does. But as far as the, what's currently happening, I'll tune into a like a great British bakeoff or something of that nature. Not so much the, uh, uh, I'll say this.

The, the closest experience I have is Crowell show, basically. That's the, that's the most recent example of like reality TV, like a complete parody of it, which, Having dipped back in now and watching these shows, I just realize how tragically accurate things like publicity and other sketches are, thanks to Nick Kroll. So he kept me abreast of what was going on, basically. It's interesting that you bring up the Osbournes. One of the things that has been kind of like common with all of our guests when we asked them what their, you know, their experience with reality TV, they often reference Jersey Shore, which is definitely a,

obviously very influential in the realm of narrative reality TV. But the Osbournes was such a huge, like, cultural phenomenon that I'm surprised that you're the first person to mention that because it does such a fantastic job of carving out these, like, these characters out of real people that I don't think. think that it gets a lot of credit for when we discuss reality TV in general. Yeah, like that seemed like the initial boom because it was it was the following celebrities because then there was the like Carmen Electra Dave Navarro series. Of course, then like the Jessica Simpson kind of like that seemed to be a bit of a tipping point where it lent itself more to,

okay, what if people were just pathetic and and their intelligence like they couldn't even possibly learn a script if they tried. And so let's film that kind of, you know, not some people who aren't doing anything kind of took over, whereas it, I recall it being like, yeah, people who just have oddball lives up to and including, I guess, the surreal life, but that's still more of a game show. Yeah, the Osbournes felt like the real beginning. Obviously, I know there's, I'm sure you guys have talked about how like in england it's a whole different thing like their their grip on reality tv is so much so heavy-handed and it's humongous there the way that they follow like they have like the 24-hour channels for their big brother's feeds where you can tune in i had once there was a hotel

room i was just flipping through the channels and they had the 24-hour feed for big brother are you sure that wasn't just like the CCTV channel got the lobby all day long. Well, it was, it was just, yeah, like security camera footage of people sleeping, uh, occasionally the kitchen or something.

Um, there's a video I have somewhere, uh, possibly on my phone or somewhere saved of me reacting to that. That I took that because I came home, or came home, went to the hotel. Tipsy as ever.

And I was just mad at what I saw. I'm like, this is how was this television? And so I started reacting very strongly and passionately about every time they did it. a shot of an empty table in the kitchen and like the vase. So it's, it's interesting.

I don't want to get too like far into the weeds. Yeah. Yeah. Because I could talking about Big Brother. Um, but I'm curious as to what you saw. Because I think that Big Brother UK, they at one point did away with their, um, their 24 hour live streams, which typically reside on online as opposed to an actual TV, uh, channel. But they might, they might have that.

there. I know in North America it's typically Yeah, I don't know exactly. I mean, as much as I reacted strongly to it, I didn't investigate too far into what exactly I was seeing. I assume based on how it was set up, like it was clearly

a Big Brother style household with the, you know, the simplistic color palette, not a lot of words around. It was just very, like, the way it was set up clearly meant to house like up to 16 people at once. Yeah, it probably it sounds like it was it sounds like it was big brother

Or a knockoff I mean I would say that A very similar knockoff maybe I don't know but that that was a brother houses in North America I wouldn't define them as boring looking they're very loud and lots of like pattern and stuff like that Sure yeah to get back to talking about the the live feeds on on big brother That's actually one thing about there's kind of two things that I think make Big Brother specifically the best competition reality show that you can engage with. And one of them, I think, is the live feeds. And the other is the fact that it is happening live in real time.

The episodes are being cut in real time, as opposed to something like Survivor or Project Runway where this all gets shot. And then following that, the producers have the opportunity to, craft the narratives that they want and and see the um see the stories early on that they want to flesh out throughout the course of the season big brother doesn't have that opportunity because it's happening week to week and there's there's live feeds that people are watching 24-7 that they are able to hold the hold production accountable to a certain degree to tell a truthful story as to what

happening and if you're watching big brother like if you're watching previous episodes from a previous season of big brother um you'll see huge swings in terms of uh character arcs that you won't see on other reality tv uh because the producers haven't had the opportunity to really have as much control over what's going on yeah yeah and so i think that big brother is is a fantastic watch. And I think it's also a great, like, social game. The strategy and social positioning that you see on Big Brother is unmatched just because you have that sort of raw, unfiltered look. And some seasons are definitely better than others.

Big Brother Canada just notably got rid of their live feeds for the season that just began this week. So that's very disappointing because, like I said, I think it is a pillar of what Big Brother is. But, you know, hopefully we'll still be able to see the same level of dramatic swings within the house get told out just by nature of it happening, you know, live on a week to week basis. that's probably enough of me ranting about Big Brother Let's get into talking about Real Housewives of Miami It was the season finale

Will, what were your first impressions of all the housewives? Well, it was funny Because I was set up, I didn't watch that first. That was the second show I watched in my watching order. So my brain was tuned differently. And so when they hit me,

The first thing I wrote down was waves of surgery. It was just the most obvious thing to the uninitiated that it was the first thing I saw was a lot of quick cut close-ups of people who are quite literally wearing their procedures on their face. Like it's just they are, it is right out there. It was, it was also they for lack of a better term or a more graceful term at this early hour I was still compare

I was kind of instantly comparing them to the vendor vendor whatever's and they were they felt real more real like right away it's like oh they actually have real problems like they're actually discussing things that actually you know affects one's life

and it was so with that in mind I was endeared to them yeah faster than I was the youths running around the many restaurants of Beverly Hills in the other show it was

yeah they they I was instantly like okay I actually can understand and there's actually something I can again for lack of a bit of a trip relate to like they actually had problems and like okay I know what this problem is and it's real and

it requires actual thought and emotion and at least some level of depth. So I, yeah, I was, despite my, yeah, very low brow initial reaction of just like, oh, surgery, like, yeah, of course, I mean, it's, you know, the whole format. It's the fact that these are meant to be people who married very rich in a very rich community known for appearing a certain way. So, yeah, I'm not exactly condemning them for that, but it was jarring, to say the least. That she's just like, oh, okay, why?

All right. So everyone then. Yeah, you touched on some of these housewives, like having real relatable problems. And I think that Miami has this particular episode of Miami, we, maybe by virtue of it being the season finale, we got into a lot of the things that we have seen kind of brewing over the past few seasons that were there were some particularly touching moments in in this episode i think the scene that um with nicole and

her father doing therapy was uh one of those things we've seen this relationship be um be very tense and Nicole very, like, steeled off towards her father. And this particular scene, I thought, was one that we get kind of a breakthrough that we've been waiting for. I love that scene. I found it, like, very moving, like, very emotional. And I, and it was a great choice on the part of the editors to not apply music until, like, the end of the scene. Now, they kind of let it stand as a documentary artifact without.

music because they kind of think they realize that you know emotional tension of what's going on so they resist the usual temptation to constantly try to guide the viewers with with musical cues which they usually do at every scene of course in these shows and let it stand on its own and uh and yeah i found that like really moving the way that uh Nicole and her father try to reconcile and how our father uh is unable to say he's sorry but when he pushed yeah provides that that story which was really unexpected for me anyway not what I was thinking would come out of his mouth where he tells a story about when he was trying to look after her

when she was a kid and she basically got run over by a car. And the point he's trying to make is that he's afraid that he's going to hurt her. He's afraid that he's not good enough to look after. That if he tries to, he's going to hurt her. So

the conclusion that we're essentially reaching is that he's hurting her by not being enough of a president in her life. because he's afraid to hurt her. And I thought that was a pretty, like, a significant breakthrough that was that, coupled with the fact that he can't say the words,

I'm sorry. Yeah. And the way the editors, I think, handled that was very, very well. I think they were able to bring the tension so that the moment where he's unable to say sorry, it is played for comedic effect. like a much needed break in in the tension where he's she's like well would you look at her and say that you're sore and he's like yeah and she's sitting there waiting and he's like oh what you want me

to do it right now no I'm not going to do it right now yeah yeah that uh that kind of touches on what I something I found that the most touching bits in this entire episode had to do with parental relationships. It was, there was, as, despite it clearly designed for the climax to be about the embattled friendships at the party and all like, you know, who needs to apologize to who and, and all of these sort of friendship tensions, uh, the most meaningful things were, um, seeing the parents. And, and they're also like, they were brand new to me. So I had a lot of catching up to do. So perhaps that was part of the,

profundity of it like the just seeing each of the like the mothers of the group actually having such genuine troubles like right off the bat i felt so bad for uh i think it's lisa is her name i'm gonna be horrible with names i didn't mark note of many names at all i think i think i think yeah yeah she's like going through the divorce kind of like battling for her kids um that like the the sort of uh disembodied voice on her phone there. It seems like he seems like a real piece of shit. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. And just kind of a, you know,

half used piece of pastrami. That's apparently flirting every way, which way through Miami and just treating her like shit. And that seemed very clear. Like I felt incredible. I felt like I just wrote, I felt genuinely bad. I wrote for a divorcee because I didn't, I didn't catch the name. And I also didn't cycle back to any scenes. I'm like, I'm going forward. Fresh reaction. No, you know, I don't get to have a, I don't give myself a second reaction. I'm not going to rewatch any scenes. This is initial reaction.

So I just wrote that. I felt really, really bad for her and just all the parental, like learning more, like as the episode progressed, I got to learn about Frankie. And that's where I had to do a bit of research because I didn't want my reactions to be insensitive. And so I wanted to know what was going on with each of the kids. And so when, yeah, it's Alexia, I think her name is Alexia's kids. And just seeing the way, and that was a very interesting editing choice. Like I can see how it was obviously like dealing with the one family. But having this kind of this very touching a bit of montage of her helping Frankie out.

And then I learned why, you know, he was behaving a certain way that the troubles that he's facing. and then contrasting that with this self-important dumbass visiting his dad and he's like, I'd rather go fly kites to help my mom. And I'm like, that's like, Jesus, man, I could, I could smell the rubber burning when he's trying to think of something clever to say. Yeah. It was just the contrast of like someone who clearly is trying hard and has like, you know, has had dealt with brain damage

it seems like they're, you know, like in recovery and are just trying to learn the basic mechanics of for independence and their mother's helping them so much just like how here's how to, you know, work a can opener. Here's how to, you know, cook. Here's all these things. Here's some tips on this.

Kerasa's too like, yeah, I was going to take out alone and go to Puerto Rico and like not even tell you guys. I'm like, yeah, that's a plan for something. Like gee whiz, yeah, his solutions are to just fly places and I think he came back from the place too. I don't know. And that was very and then researching like who like who the hell the father was and definitely went, oh. So that's,

that's where his money came from. I see. Right. Miami. What is it known for? It's not just where a lot of pro wrestlers retire. It's there's a lot going on there. Yeah, Alexa's Alexia's journey with Frankie has been really sweet and understated this season. I think she's been in this routine of like having, of doing everything for him. And for her to have this realization that she needs to make sure that he can be more independent and watching her actively work towards that. I think that's something that's really nice to see. and I'm glad that we've continued to see that through to the season finale here.

And you're right to have that immediately contrast with her other son and his father. They are such polar opposites in terms of the type of relationship that she has with her kids. and it's pretty, it was interesting to me to see that. And how to nobody's surprise, like, I don't know if like, does it matter if I'm like skipping ahead in the timeline here or what I, we talk about? Just like, just like at the end when you had the fun,

you know, the season finale tags of like, what's happened since. And of course he's crashing the honeymoon. It's like, yeah, like, of course he's going to fly his ass to grease on someone else's dying.

to ruin something like he'd ruin anything he'd you know he was ruining the shirts he was wearing like he just seems like a guy who ruins everything wherever he goes and so i mean as far as like initial impressions go boy that guy had probably the worst one on me that was like i'd sooner trust the the ex kingpin than that dopey shack of hair alexia's ex came across very emotionally open in this, which is surprising to me. I didn't like, I think this is the first time that we've seen him this season. And I thought that in that conversation that he had with Peter, he came across very emotionally open and honest and looking for a connection with his son. And Peter just feels very like closed off emotionally and like.

wanted him to like help like mentioning like yeah i want you to help with your mother like you know help with her yeah help with the salon like you know trying to get you know not just for his own connection but for just his peter's connection to anyone in the family he seems like he wanted it to be you know more so and peter just wanted to fly kites and fuck off the porto rico yeah maybe maybe the most self-interested person that we see during this episode would be Peter. And that's saying a lot. We see Nicole's dad on this. Yeah, we literally see people's names blinking in neon lights.

And yet, that's still not as self-important. Is that shambling crap? Did you have any other highlights from Miami will? Yeah, I was also very, I was surprised. to, like, I wasn't sure if I was going to recognize anybody. It was only a little bit after the fact that, like, I would see, like, okay, who were they married to?

You didn't realize, like, my former favorite basketball player, the Scotty Pippins ex is there. That's interesting. Yeah. And then surprise twist at the end when they do. Yeah. You know, what are they up to now?

And she's dating Michael Jordan's son now. Yeah. Her husband's co-ex husband's co-workers. on it. Yeah, so she watched a lot of Bulls games, I guess. And, but, but seeing Martina showed up there, like,

that was a name. Yeah. Like, oh, a legendary tennis player. Yeah, Martino Navajo Lova is, yeah, like that's like a supporting cast member in the show, basically. Yeah, I saw, I'm like, wait, are they, like, I heard, saw the name like, is that, is that?

I'm Googling it. I'm like, oh, holy hell. That is. Yeah, there she is. married to former Miss USSR. Yeah. There was a few years where there was such a thing as Miss USSR. Yeah. And they were, they came off as like the,

of all the people in the show, at least up to that point. And I guess after too, really, they came off as the most real. Like I believe, like none of it seemed like there was no cuts to reactions, no OMG faces.

None of these, like everyone, else seemed to have a little bit of a, you know, there's, there's a certain stageiness to some of the stuff. It's mostly from like the party because the party was just like, oh, we're going to like throw this part. Like it's a, it's a cast party. It's clearly something funded by, you know, the TV studio. Like it's, you know, it's clear. Like, and I also appreciated the fact that they didn't even try to hide some of the camera people. Like you can see them around during some shots. They're like, yeah, we like after as the progress, we're like, you know what? This is, it's just, it's just,

just easier to show them like let's not pretend that there's a veil of like we're oh we're you know we're just a fly on the wall like no we've put them here so that it bubbles over and we turned on the heat on purpose but yeah seeing that um seeing that couple

and it's it was exciting to see an actual queer couple in one of these shows and that they were so real and loving and going through these challenges and they didn't nothing about them seemed forced or staged. It was kind of refreshing in a way

that like the stakes were like the stakes were like the stakes are very real for all a lot of them like especially the parents as I said but they I don't know I was I was endeared to them very quickly and even though they all they definitely seem like like ancillary characters

throughout like they weren't really involved with a lot of other people there. It was more just like you know here's this big group of friends that are eventually going to have this thing and then also these two are here and they're also in Miami and also have money and also seem to be enjoying a lunch a lot of fun luncheons.

I made a note of like that very first lunche how they included in the editing the guy listing the specials. I don't know why but that really stuck out to me. I'm just like that's an odd choice. Like they could have just have had the dialogue and just had them talking. It's not like people would be like well I don't believe they're actually having lunch. It's like, well, let's have the winter coming. It's like, well, today's soup is, it's like, I mean, good for that person.

To be fair, on these shows, you don't actually often see people putting the food in their mouths. Like, you don't actually see that often. With the exception of Real Housewives of New Jersey, where you see it all the time, because food is just such a big part of the culture. Yeah, from New Jersey, that'd be really weird. Sometimes you get to see them manipulate the food with their hands. Yeah. That was a thing. I made a note of.

was a little thing on that. There was also the one person who in the show asked if you're going to eat something. We saw them eat something in this episode. There was, um, which I made note of her name, but there was like they were in the, it was like with, it was Alexia and the other, whoever she wrote, whoever wrote in the car with her. Another one of the older. Marisol, probably. Probably. Probably. She asked like, are you going to eat at this? And like, and it's like, I just hope there's good cocktails. And it was just very like, and that was kind of like the, joke. But then during like one of the speeches, she's the one person

that they cut to and you see her actually like take a bite of something and try it. Wait, Alexa or Marisol. Marisole. Okay, yeah. You actually see. Marisole does often, I notice, insist that she doesn't eat. No, she does anyways, but I mean, she like. Yeah, but she was the one person asking if they would and then she did. And yeah, I just thought that was interesting. Like I just, you know, there was some

weird connection to like someone who actually broached the subject did it. For all the interest that it brings, yes. No, it does bring it just because it's very in keeping with Marisol's character too. Like she just loves like declaring things about herself that are not true. She does that all the time. Like when she takes somebody to go to a fat doctor and it's like, I don't use it myself though. I just like hang out and talk to him.

Right. And she doesn't have COVID after she got a COVID test and just always doing stuff like that. Gotcha. Oh, and while I noticed this on my notes, just certainly a gripe I had for certain parts, can't they just let them speak Spanish

at times? They do often. Do they? Thank God. I thought this was like a whole America can't do subtitles thing. No, actually, this is remarkable in how often it actually happens typically.

Oh, good. Often meaningfully. Like sometimes like Alexia, especially, when she'll like switch to speaking spanish sometimes it's like you know she's being like i really want to get this across i really mean this yeah like what she says of adriada like like it's an peter like she's a bitch like she switches to spanish to say that to like underscore like not as a figure of speech i mean it she does that okay then i i'm glad to hear that because i it was starting to annoy me just where

there were things as when they were getting heated or they're discussing things and they had to do occasionally do subtitles for their English because some obviously have very strong accents at certain points or just when they when they try to speak over something else their accent really starts to get in the way and and that's you know all well and good but it's just let them speak in Spanish and I'm glad to hear that they do I'm glad that's not something I can touch the the casual American audience like just you know read the subtitles

let them speak their actual language. It's like they can understand better. It can speak better. It's just, you know, it's not for us to decide like, well, I'm not comfortable.

But now I'm very, I'm chuffed, I'll say. To hear that, yes, I'm glad that there's some Spanish or or and lots of it. So Dylan, what highlights did you have from this episode?

I love this episode. I thought it was, it was awesome. A lot of things that I liked were things that, that will already mentioned. Like you said, Will, even though the conclusion

is all about, like, trying to bring the friend group together, you know, will they, will Alexia and Mara Solvander to forgive it, Adrietta,

and will they end on a note of inclusivity or still being against each other? But everything leading up to that is all about family. It's all, it might as well be a Fasten the Furious movie. It's all about family. And I really like that.

Like the opening or near the top when they have to bitch with, Lisa and her stepmother, who is, you know, discussing about Lenny's indiscretions. And that was really interesting because, you know, generally, Lenny's mother is like very, like, gets very along with Lisa. And then she says something like kind of puts a blame on her by saying that, like, you left him alone. Like you went to New York for a couple days and left him alone. Obviously, no excuse for cheating. but and like Lisa of course calls him out right or like calls her out a bit by saying like that's obviously no excuse but then she's kind of hesitant kind of like well look what happened and I thought that was an interesting example of like you know Lisa being of a younger generation than than this older woman being like you know that's that's not acceptable anymore that's not how it works anymore our days and then but then the mother being like well but look what happened it's one you know and I feel that I feel that

Like that's kind of an example of what you also see with Nicole and her father, where it's like it's easy to say like things that's changed from earlier generations. But just saying it doesn't just make it the case. Like it's like you also have to find ways to actually change people's behavior or you're just talking about a change of environment when the environment still remains the same. So that kind of question of what you can, I guess, force a younger generation to accept or what a younger generation can force their parents to recognize as a new normal is kind of a theme that runs through Lisa's discussion with her stepmother and Nicole's a very emotional attempt to reconcile with her father, who comes from an unprivileged background, as he points out to,

which is a part of the basis for why he behaves the way that he does, not necessarily an excuse, but that's part of his roots and where he comes from. And even the stuff with Alexia and her different children and her attempts to nurture Frankie and despite his disability to try to make sure that he becomes like a good self-sustaining human being. And I just thought that's kind of generational, push and pull and you know and even with Lisa's kids too like when she's talking with her

stepmother and then we kind of cut two scenes of her with her children too and you realize that there's that kind of recognition that if if she wants her children to actually you know live the values that she espouses she's going to have to see that they're raised in a certain way right so i think there's a lot about the difficulty of actually trying to uh impose values on the world in a real way that isn't just like declaring what your values are. That I thought that kind of theme was really interesting. And the way that we see kind of different versions of it through different families was something that really spoke to me that I thought was pretty cool.

And the climax too in the party, the melting pot party that Gertie organizes, also had some pretty good tension for me too because it really wasn't clear if they were going to pull together and forgive Adriana the way that Gertie clearly wanted them to. Yeah. And I thought there was real tension in trying to figure out like, are they going to end this with like everybody being like, okay, I've also forgiven and forgotten. We're a team. We're a friend group.

And they don't quite. They don't quite. No, yeah. And I'm happy that we didn't get the sort of happy ending that we wanted because I don't think it would be believable. But I thought that it was wrapped pretty nicely and sets us up to see, you know, how true that reconciliation is in the next season that happens. Or we'll even see that in the reunion, which comes out, which will be out by the time this podcast there's. Yeah, yeah.

So then that was interesting too, because, yeah, you're right, Craig. Like, do they, does, does Adriana deserve their forgiveness? And like, if you tie that to the other themes of, like, trying to impose certain values, it's like, well, if you want actual values to stick, you can't always just forgive everybody in every situation. So we still have that kind of unresolved dispute with Adriana, where her foot, that was almost broken into a thousand pieces. It's almost like the metaphor for, like, it's her pain. How much do we have to account for her pain into her actions? And to what extent can you just forgive somebody because they're going through a lot or to what extent are you just letting people get away with anything if you keep forgiving them?

And that kind of like two perspectives we have, like Julia's perspective as being like a very like forgiving person, like, you know, wanting to take Adrietta's side and wanting to encourage everybody to see things from her perspective. And then the opinion of Marisol and Alexia, which is like, well, there are things that are beyond the pale. And at a certain point, he just can't accord forgiveness to anybody for everything. That, you know, that's kind of a something we've been dealing with for the past few episodes. And I thought that was kind of interesting to see it be the tension of the room and the finale that doesn't actually get resolved. Yeah, I think it's a particularly interesting case with Adriana because this might be a byproduct of the fact that she's not a full-blown. housewife, she's a friend of, but her issues seem very trivial compared to some of the things the other women are going through.

Like, Alexia obviously has had years and years of dealing with Frankie's journey and trying to support him. We see Lisa in a very bitter, volatile divorce and relationship. It's and Marisol's pain towards her ex is something that is obviously very very real. She speaks in this episode, I believe it was about how, you know,

it caused her to not eat and resurface her anorexia. And Adriana has this trivial like broken foot that she plays up. she diminishes the Alexia's journey and Marisol's journey because she's in pain. It was pretty interesting to sort of get that contrast. Though I think like her broken foot is her like trying to concretize her like emotional pain. Like she's just trying to make everybody be aware of the fact that she's an extreme emotional pain and wants consideration for that. Like when she hurt her foot, that's like her, your attempt to be like,

this is something that you can grab onto as like, as like the image of my suffering. Yeah. And I think that is like, she obviously is like truly suffering because when Larsa really plays up feeding her compliments and, and stuff, she responds to it like so,

so honestly. Like she just loves it. So there's definitely like. Weird strategy by Larsa there. I'm not really sure what. what the outcome she was hoping for by just being like, oh, I'll just keep complimenting her condescendingly and didn't work out, like you said. Yeah. I don't know if it was condescending.

I felt like there was some honesty there. I feel like it was intended as condescending in the sense that she was trying to make it clear to Adriata, like, oh, you are just asking for us to like be nice to you. So I'll just keep doing that and make it clear to you that you're just going around saying, everybody be nice to be, everybody be nice to me. Yeah, this was actually something that stood out to me because it did come across as as honest. Like she was honestly trying to seek balance, like some sort of like balance in terms of the relationships. She wanted stability, which is something that we haven't seen from Larsa at all this season. And she's always been one to be an instigator of drama and trying to really cause tension and drama. And so it's interesting to see her at this point kind of reach for stability between the divided house that is the Miami Housewives.

Okay. Yeah, Brits and I didn't quite read it that way. I thought it was her like trying to get. get Adrianna to be upset with her by being like fake condescending nice but that's yeah it's interesting that you had a bit of a different read because I can like I can see that especially given the context of what Larsa has done but Nicole also seemed to think that it was genuine and was was was she says that like Larsa taking this approach is endearing Larsa to Nicole and uh and that's a really relationship that, you know, has had a lot of tension ever since last season.

So to see her read that as honest as someone who will typically not give Larsa the benefit of the doubt, validates me. I think it proves that I'm right. Yeah. Fair enough. Did you have any other highlights from this episode? I mean, I always like to underscore Tiki just turning up to be fucking weird, you know. big fan of Kiki, who rarely appears for more than like a couple brief moments, but always

is just reliably, just a delightfully weird person. So I just like how she somehow misunderstands the term quail legs and asks like, is that like a rat or something? Yeah. As like a rat or something. And somebody tells her it's a bird and she's like, oh, and you eat the legs? She's just delightfully uncomprehending. It's great. Yeah. And when the smoke machine started, she was like, oh, there's lights and smoke coming out of my vagina. Right, again, because she's also always thinking about getting laid too. Great stuff from her again. Always a strong supporting showing.

I think this melting pot party, I marked it down. I'm looking at my notes right now, and I've marked it down several times how like beautiful, beautifully shot it is. Like it's a whole vibe. It is so aesthetically pleasing, despite the fact that it looks like it's, like being done in a, like a storage locker or something. There's like this big garage door,

but it's so well lit. I think the neon and like the palm leaves and ferns and everything, just like it looks amazing. Like I want Gertie to plan a party for me. It does come off well. And the mix of pastel color dresses that they bring to it was like a good, good mix of color. It's very mildly vibe.

And even down to that like storage locker garage. behind Gertie as she's giving it toast the way that like the green was the green light was reflecting off of it to give these like these bars behind her that really highlighted her. I just yeah I I loved watching this scene. I think it was just very aesthetically pleasing. Yeah, I agree. I think we covered most of my highlights for Miami. Let's get into Vanderpump rules a little bit before we get into our highlights.

If you haven't checked out the episode we did earlier this week on the Scandival, check it out. We go over in-depth what happened between Tom Sandoval and Raquel, will to catch you up to speed. Off-camera drama happened one week ago today when it was revealed that Tom Sandoval and Raquel had been having a long-term affair behind the back of Ariana, which is something that. not a lot of people saw coming. Since that episode taping, what's happened is Kristen Doughty has been spotted filming. So, you know, the queen is back. I hope you're taking notes, well.

Yes. Strong mental ones. And Raquel and Tom. This is legacy information. Raquel and Tom were, apparently kissing during the first scene that they filmed together post Scandibald breaking, which is something that has outraged people. We love to see it. And Raquel has been granted a temporary restraining order against Sheena after allegedly Sheena gave her a black eye.

Social media detectives think that this black eye is fake, maybe faker than Heather gay's black eye drama on Salt Lake City this past season. There's been people digging up posts from a few weeks ago where Raquel is seen with darkness around the eye that matches the photos that came out. What do you think about this restraining order, Dylan? I don't know. I think we need more information to know. the truth. But if she got truly hit by Sheena, then it's totally fair to ask for a restraining order

against somebody who hits you, I think. Yeah, I mean, it's fair. I don't know that it's the right move in my opinion. I feel like Raquel's really bumbling her handling on this. It's not the best way to leverage this situation if you're trying to be a reality TV star. Because to me, it seems like this is a measure for her to get out of having to show up at the reunion. If she's got a restraining order against Sheena, she can't appear when they shoot the reunion. And it seems to me like it's an effort for her to try to avoid being held accountable. So that is pretty disappointing. Yeah, you could see it from the angle of like she turned up the heat and now she can't handle it and she wants to back down.

Yeah. Yeah. And I was just thinking about, you know, how it seems a bit strange that they're planning to tack this on to the end of this season as opposed to saving it for the next season. And I'm wondering if maybe that that is because they expect the rest of the cast to ice out Raquel and or Sandival. and they won't have enough people to shoot with for the duration of the next season, which is something that is always pretty unfortunate to see when a cast takes this stance because we don't get to see things play out the way, you know, in full the way that we should. But it's something that is like common. We see it on housewives all the time where people will be like, well, we're not going to shoot with them. Sure, yeah.

Will, were you surprised here about Scandival, the scandal? Have you recovered? I'll be honest. What I just heard, you may as well have said, this tin of mixed beans and this tin of baked beans are in a fight, and this tin of baked beans is not allowed to go to the Pinto Bean party and also lettuce, lettuce, carrots. I'm just thinking about food.

I don't know. This show, I had a real hard time digging into anything. It was like a hawk trying to pick up oatmeal. Like I just had, like I kept trying. I'm diving in and I'm like, I want to get something to hold on to. but it's just I made note

that it wasn't until like the middle of the episode where something made my ears perk like oh okay that's the real

topic and it felt because like sobriety like the whole issues of sobriety came up oh yeah

like halfway through and I thought like it's almost brave of them to like not lead with that because that's like the most

dramatic thing that happened or was talked about and it seems like that to me would be kind of like the hook to bring you in. Whereas the beginning of the episode, I, I didn't realize that they,

I thought I was misinterpreting the timeline. Because I, when they were cutting between people, they seemed so similar that I thought it was the same person that they were following. And it's like, okay, so someone's on a hike, but they're also vlogging themselves at a,

at a gym or something. Also, So I made note of the fact that like I hadn't heard the term vlogging since 2010. Yeah, that's it. It stood out to me that they were vlogging in this way. I mean, obviously, vlogging is still a thing. Like YouTube is a big deal.

But yeah, usually people say they're live streaming or something. And of course, it was so funny where it's like, oh, you vlogging this? Of course, vlogging this. And they're just like, you know, hey, going to the whole extended hand,

just a complete Gen Z caricature. of Gen Z just like, yeah, everything I'm doing has to be with an extended arm. Those are full ass millennials. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Well, sure. Fine. Yeah, very millennial of them. But yeah, the approach to this, like social media over the past, I don't know, like five years, maybe longer than that, has become so much higher effort, like in things like YouTube and Instagram. It takes so much more polish in order to stand out. People are expecting. that and to see, you know, Sheena and Brock just walking around with this

stupid little handheld camera. Yeah. Making a half-ass attempt at vlogging and they even forget that they're doing it. stood out to me. Yeah. Yeah, like he was sitting on the floor and there was conversations and it's just, it's a funny thing to have

happen when you're clearly on a show. You're being filmed. It's like, you know what? You can chill a bit. You've made it. You're on TV. People are going to watch you. in these painted on outfits doing whatever it is that you do and every single person there

took turns like like wearing something oh it's this cute is this cute it's like you're you're wearing post-it notes like yes you've got attention people are watching they're not listening there's nothing said

except for weird pronunciations of mariachi and like oh and the I like the implied I wrote implied knowledge of Zoolander appreciated. They made a reference to that. Katie clearly just watched Zoolander the night before she filmed that convention.

It's like this is the one villain reference that she has in the chamber. But this is... I love it. Larsa Pippin surely would not have picked up on that reference. Katie says you can't blame Zoolander for trying to kill the prime minister of Malaysia regarding Raquel trying to make out with Tom, implying that Sheena is Mugat too. And has, like, programmed someone with a song to then do evil deeds?

In this case, a podcast called shenanigans. Oh, well, then of course. Yeah, shenanigans is the relaxed in this scenario. Gotcha. All right. Yes. Well, we've all done. horrible things post-shenanigans, I suppose.

So that's my long-ass way of saying how do I feel about that one particular issue? I am without feeling. I'm afraid to admit that, yeah. So while I was watching this, I was thinking about how you would view this without any sort of context. And I think that,

this episode would I'm not surprised that you struggled to sink your teeth into it because there is like a lot of implied knowledge leading into this that the stakes would not seem quite as high in these relationships if you didn't have that and you were viewing it out of context so I'm not totally surprised I'm wondering what you picked up on in terms of some of the relationships that we see or don't see. We barely see Tom Schwartz during this episode,

but he is the ex-husband of Katie Maloney, who is featured prominently. And did you pick up anything about that relationship that stood out to you at all? If I can recall who,

like, was that the guy who was talking about, like, he was a partner as in part, one of the restaurants because they had that one meeting scene where these guys were like talking about possibly getting they were like made an offer it's like oh well we could pay such and such if you need and he says like well that was just what we paid initially so they wouldn't be making anything off of it they would just be yeah getting back what they're what they deposited into it was that one of the guys yeah so tom sandival and tom schwartz were in that conversation yeah the

tom and tom i know it's that at the beginning of the credits i thought like is that the gimmick like it's yeah so tom sandival is the one with a mustache and And he's the one that hat says in his confessional. Kidnap the monkey in the LLC. Right. I got Dudley do right for that hat. But I'm glad that you had a note about that as well. Okay.

I mean, yeah, you're right in that. I very much struggled to grip anything as far as who had a relationship with who. There was a, you know, the odd. flashback and I couldn't tell if they were flashing back to them interacting with a random person at a club or someone I should know. And then they would do like current like, oh, and now they're hitting on people again at a club. And they introduced one of them as like, here's a new character, it seems, or something. But everything else was like they could be flashing back. They could be coming back.

It's, I don't know if it matters. I just all I got was that, yep, some people. really wanted to make out or just wanted to use the words making out as a as a weapon. They were trying to weaponize that term in that just the sheer threat of someone making out with someone in proximity to another is enough to, I don't know, make them so upset that they've got to go buy some more clothes or something. Yeah, this season, like I haven't heard the words make out use this much since like the sixth grade. Yeah, it was very much like it was very much, yeah, sixth grade answers to 19 year old

problems and it was yeah it was just yeah it was hard to grip onto anything because I couldn't really get a sense of whole characters I couldn't I kept asking myself do they have jobs why are we following them and it seemed

like there was a lot of people it seems like we were getting introduced to a lot of folks a lot of faces very little standout personalities and then those that did were clearly like the like the title person like you know when you see the two oldest people

there it's like okay well these are clearly the head of something it has to be this is where the money started and clearly trickled down it definitely wasn't ground up this is not a new money gathering of people they're all trying to be well actually no I'm using the word try with them and that seems very generous I don't they weren't really trying to I couldn't tell if they were if they were anything are they just famous for being famous or

what this was. Well, okay, so the context for this show is it started following the drama of bartenders and servers at a restaurant owned by Lisa Vanderpump, who was a hostwife

on Real Housewives of Beverly Hills. We see her during this episode. And this cast is one that honestly was servers and bartenders, but we've been following them for so long like they are successful for being on this show now

and we're just continuing to follow their journey is kind of the backstory there kind of what I was suspecting that it seemed like that it wasn't so much like because it had a lot of the air of you get especially in these American shows

or reality shows you'll have something like here's the main focus purpose like say like America's next top model kind of thing where like, okay, you're getting all these little asides and bits of drama and who likes who, who hates who or whatever. But that is, you know, adjacent to the fact that they have a job to do. They're trying to, they're striving for something. Whereas here, I didn't get that they were really striving for much of anything. There was a lot of just kind of coasting. Like they've clearly established that they are, their occupation is reality.

TV personality and they all seem very content with that and then there was like the odd little pockets of people that seem to be trying to do something but it seemed like it was all the side dramas of a goal-oriented show

but without the goal. It seemed like there was no main thrust to it. So it just seemed like it's all the peripheral asides and with that it's like well I'm not rooted and of course this is I'm coming and so late into it.

It's a spin-off show, and so I'm not just on the edges. I'm skidding right off the rails of it. Like I'm so far away from where the center focus point started, it seems, of the initial housewife scenario where there would have been characters established there, the early seasons and the character development there, and now I'm coming in seeing it like, yep, these are young people who now can just enjoy being young and and I and I and I envy their youth and I hate their youth

and so I'm just I'm just sitting there becoming bitter. Most of the people on the show are about the same age as you. Yeah. Like most of these people are like late 30s. Yeah. Except like like Raquel's younger, James is younger I guess. But but the main the main cast members are like pushing 40. Well then their lifestyle is a youthful one. They have the you know they have the

the priorities of a kid without homework. Like they're just out able to do whatever talking to their cameras that they forgot to turn on. That lay left on the gym floor. And just, yeah, like I couldn't understand. I even made a note when they did that whole pinata scene. And they're sitting there. And they're like, it's like, are you like turned on right now? It's like, I'm not not turned on.

And I just wrote the words, Jesus, what the fuck? And then the reaction is like, oh my God. Like to what? What happened? What just happened there? Was she implying that the pinata turned her on? So that would actually happen? No. So for context on this.

Please, yes. The drama leading up to this and that you kind of see hinted at during portions of this was that Raquel was being, was asking Tom Schwartz, who is Katie's ex-husband to make out. And there's kind of this potential of a relationship that is hurtful to Katie that is being alluded to there. So when they're asking Raquel, do you want to make out with this pinata that is supposedly supposed to look like Tom Schwartz? It's uncanny. They say it's uncanny. Are you going to doubt their words? Well, I mean, it looked like Mark Zuckerberg to me.

Oh, okay. I was trying to figure out, I was like, maybe Justin Long. I was trying to figure out who it looked like. Not to have shorts. Yeah, so when they're like, oh, are you turned on? They're stoking the fires of like this potential Raquel and Tom Schwartz's relationship, which turns out to be a deflection for this actual affair that Tom Sandoval and Raquel are having, the Scandival relationship.

Ah, yes. That's like the paratextual elements. That's like not in the show, but that's like. Yeah. If you follow the news, that's what you know. Oh, I see, which maybe I'll do henceforth. So I think that those who do follow the news were anxiously awaiting this episode to see what sort of clues they could gleam off of this episode about the Scandival

and what was going on. And I don't think we really got that, which is unfortunate. But, you know, there's a lot of season left. so we might still get lots of that. This is a bit of an anomaly since the girls are on a cast trip and we don't really see any of the boys otherwise. But we didn't really get this big, you know, a big deluge of clues about this affair in this episode.

Well, what we do get is, some people starting to feel a little more suspicious about Raquel or wondering what her motives are. Oh, yeah, Christina Kelly. Christina Kelly especially kind of isn't totally buying the idea that she's completely innocent and naive and because she seems to have no thoughts in her head whatsoever. So I try to watch the episode just the text, you know, without like the paratextual knowledge of what's going on outside of it. And it is kind of interesting how, like I mentioned before, there's more of a centering of her and we're kind of starting to get a little bit more glimmers of like who she actually is as a person because people tend to look at her as being almost a non-entity, which is why she kind of gets away in Katie's eyes with not absorbing any responsibility for asking Schwartz to make out.

because, you know, Katie thinks that she's such a blank slate that surely it was Sheena who picked up the chalk and wrote on that blank slate. She couldn't have, like, produced a thought in her own head. And then, but we see some people started to push back on it. Like you said, Christina Kelly is, like, kind of dubious about this. And when they bring it up in front of Lisa, Lisa kind of says the same thing.

Like, well, surely, Raquel's the one who did it. And now Sheena's out of your wedding. And Raquel's here at the table and going on the girls' trip with you. Little, little strange, but you know, you understand because like, yeah, it's, um, Raquel is is, you know, newly single, unsure of herself and like just doesn't seem to have any kind of like direction and stuff. So you don't see her as having a, uh, any kind of strategizing or malevolent intent, which maybe she doesn't too. Like I'm not going to, uh, dispute that it was just like an idea that was given to her. And she was like, by somebody, whether,

whether Ashita or not. But it's interesting to see a lot of the episode kind of dealing with that. And Lala, too, kind of like taking Raquel under her wing. And then when Raquel goes and makes out with that guy, I forget his name that they meet in Las Vegas. Oliver. Oliver, right. And Lala's like, you know, if it was a competition, I would have pulled him, not you. Yeah. I actually believe her about that.

Yeah, I believe that too. She probably would have been able to, but it's a little bit like her, like, nurturing an apprentice who then kind of, you know, swoops in and goes over her head a little bit. So I think Lala, too, is starting to, like, look at slightly more askance at Raquel, like, you know, is she, is she planning more than we think that she's planning? And it's a, it's kind of an open question because Raquel doesn't give you that much to work off of in terms of analyzing how she's interpreting things. Yeah, and also the only potential, like, motivation that we get to see during this episode for Raquel intentionally trying to hurt Katie is in a confessional where she alludes to the fact that there's a bit of a beef because Katie didn't come to the puppy party that her and Jane was like four or five years ago. Which that never would have occurred to me. Like that was just like an inconsequential thing that happened way back in the day. So Will, this is the payoff.

If that's her villain origin stories. Oh, my God. That would be amazing if that was her villain origin story. Yeah, a seed was planted many seasons ago. And now it's bared bitter fruit. I joke a bit, but actually, like, that is one of the things that is appealing about watching these shows. You get things that you wouldn't expect to come back and serve as. as motivators that, you know, if you're, if you're writing a novel, you're not going to have

crumbs like this that stick in your characters the way that things like a slight, a very minor slight, like not coming to a puppy party would stick with an actual person. Yeah. Dylan, what highlights did you have marked down here? Yeah, that was the main thing, just the ongoing attempts to interpret Raquel and just kind of trying to figure out, like, you know, is she evolving? Is she, like, on the cusp of developing object permanence? Like, you feel like you're witnessing an intelligence form, but it's not clear how to interpret it. That's mostly it.

I do I do really like the little I'd really like Katie's delivery when she's at the bar with Christina Kelly and Christina Kelly orders a soda and she the little hesitation before she says tequila. It's like it was just like a great line delivery. It reminded me of like Paul Newman at the end of the color of money

saying I'm back. Yeah. Tequila Katie is in the house. Yeah, very much like putting on the Batman mask Yeah, exactly. Ordering Shaquilla. Like if Bruce Wayne hadn't been Batman for like

a couple years and then it's like this situation requires it. Yeah. The situation calls for tequila Katie. There's like a light goes up in the sky and it's like the outline of a Jose Cuervo model. I took that line as a flirt honestly.

I thought that was a like, that's something you say when you're like, because they went up and there was those guys at the bar and that weird like, oh, can we order here? Tim Gray. It's like, yeah, as if, yeah, these guys are going to be like, no, go away, boys only. And so, of course, they go there. And then just the way she, like, and the body, like, she was, they, they didn't stop facing them. I might be misremembering it. But it seemed like she was facing the boys the whole time. And then it's like, what are you having like tequila? As if to say, like, wink, I'm here to party boys. Yeah. Care to also order some tequila with me. I took that as like, I don't know, like you guys know the character better than I do is a.

It's a declaration or a, you know, breaking open the shirt to reveal the big tea and the lime symbol. It's both. Yeah. Again, the, like, subtext there for, like, long time viewers is that there's a joke about Katie becoming tequila, Katie, like, a different personality when she gets drunk where she has too much tequila. Okay. And, like, just getting messy when she has too much tequila, basically. But you're still rage texting. It's that as well.

Yeah. Yeah. It's a Frank the Tank inside joke kind of thing. Yeah. Gotcha. Yeah. Yeah, it was interesting. You brought up James talking about his drinking stuff as like something that has like actually a bit of weight to it. And it does.

It's just that I'm like really tired of it at this point because it's been like years and years and years of James being like, I'm not drinking anymore. Well, I'm just having a little bit of a drink like for like constantly. So I'm just like just sick of that like being the way that he's a winner. He's the such a weiner. It's a flake. So great. It cannot stand that guy. Yeah.

I love James. I don't mind that we see this back and forth. I think the, the instability of James and his never-ending wavering on his sobriety or, like, committing to anything is a defining feature of him that I, you know, think works very well on on television yeah it's just it's just been the same thing though for like years and years that's my issue with it like i feel like there's never going to be any evolution on james he's just the same fucking guy i thought that this episode was good at kind of highlighting that way it added a bit of a dimension since we got to see a lunch between james and his his mom and and alley um that is a complicated relationship uh james's mom

has gone sober since we've seen her last, I think. Maybe she was sober the previous times we saw her, but definitely when she was introduced on the show, she was not. Yeah. This lunch was one of the highlights for me, actually. I thought it was interesting to see James' mom talking about how she dislikes Raquel.

I wish that we got a bit more of a confessional from Ali about how that makes her feel, whether she just takes that as, oh, Raquel is obviously, you know, a bad person, so that's why she feels that way, or if she reads that as something that would be, you know, a potentially complicated relationship that she'll inevitably have with James's mom as their relationship goes on, because we do see over the, the history of the show that James's mom has complicated relationships with James's partners. Notably, this is, I think, the first time we've heard about that with Raquel, but there was notable incidents with Kristen in the past when James was dating Kristen.

Apparently, James' mom stealing $400 from Kristen's credit card or something like that to get Botox. And Kristen also alleged that when James's mom was drinking, she admitted to robbing a bank of like $28,000 or something like that. So she's got complicated relationships with James's partners. And I am curious as to how that is read by Allie. Yeah. I did think that it was interesting later when we saw at the spa when, um, James was like, well, do you like it when I'm drinking or not? I was surprised to see that Ali actually had the backbone to say that she prefers when he's sober.

Because I've said it before on the podcast that I don't think Ali has really like given us that much. So I was surprised to see her take a stance. Like even in this James mom lunch, the previous scene that we see them in, like, Ali is just there. And she looks young. I'm surprised the server didn't just drop off some crayons and the kids she's just there kind of in her own world for the most part. Yeah.

Yeah. And since they talk a little bit about like decorating Lisa's restaurants, I think now is it good as time as I need to point out that I think the decor at Lisa's restaurants is fucking horrible. Just let it get that out of my system. just so taggy. And also, why does she have like a restaurant in Las Vegas

called Paris by Vanderpump or something? What are you talking about? Yeah, they've got a huge banner on the Arc de Triumph there. Yeah, they like built a fake Arch de Triumph and put a banner of Lisa Vanderpom's face on her.

The emissary of Paris, this English woman from L.A., right? It's, yeah, it's things like that. They lose meaning. it's like when you go to IKEA and there's a you know London poster you can buy it's like oh this doesn't mean you went there it just means you recognize the word London yeah it's just it's just meaningly gobbledygook it would seem because I was yeah I was confused Lisa loves to like

kind of pretend she's French too like I've seen her say that she she speaks perfect French and I've also oh yeah seen her speak French and she's grading herself very generously but yeah i mean also like the the new place that the tom's have is also pretty garish but i like it more like i like the wallpapers the eclectic wallpapers and like it leans into it a bit more it leans into more being like like when they have a reception guy calls it like an old call you would look and like yeah it's more of that like tiki bar or like classic uh burger diner like uh thing which also very tacky also very over decorated but not as as awful to my eyes as the like you know metal surfaces and take marble and pink and flowers and

all the recessed lighting everywhere in chandeliers that you get in the Vanderpump places, which are just at eyesore. Yeah, for sure. So just wanted to say that. Just wanted to get up my chest. Did you have any other highlights? No, well, I'm on the subject of bashing Lisa.

Like, yeah, Sanibal is right to say that, like, she, that it's like a kind of a shitty offer to just like offer to buy about for as an initial investment. Yeah. When especially when that was framed initially of them of Lisa and Ken being like, oh, they're going through a hard time financially. We should we should help them. We should help them. I thought they were going to like offer to buy out Greg their business. Yeah, that's what I was thinking.

And shorts and saddies. But no, they're not helping them. They smell blood in the water. Like there's vulnerability in their financial position and they're looking to take. advantage of their financial vulnerability to get their stake in tom for basically an unfair refund yeah yeah anyways that's about it yeah the uh the only other note that i've got here that i wanted to uh mention was um i think that james showed a bit of self-awareness in in this and with regards to you know his his drinking like um he is not denying that it is like potentially unwise when

his mom asked him like oh do you think it's it's wise and to to her he's like oh yeah it's fine but we get a confessional where he's like do i think it's wise and i'm drinking no and then he follows it up by saying like no it's not wise if i was a wise old man mr yoda i'd move to budapest and become a monk. Yeah. I guess there's monks in Budapest. Yeah, I wasn't too sure about this reference point there. Yeah, it's where the Buddhese come from, don't you know?

Yeah. The mini Buddhas. Yeah, so I don't have any other highlights. Any final thoughts from either of you guys? I definitely, the one note that I left off from or didn't get to for Miami was, man, that song was bad. You know what I'm talking. like we have to hear like okay he's just a demo and they play the demo okay the demo song like legend

they're building them up like legendary producer and everything and then it's like here's just the demo and I hear him like oh please he is a legend though he is I oh that I do not question I recognize the name but I mean don't finish that song like some things can just stay as a demo give it another go or change the lyrics at least or something I don't know I just heard that and I I was suddenly taken back to reminded of actually when you're asking what were some of my reality show origins. There was in my younger days

a bit of a gauntlet I had to run when I was a reviewer and I still do like reviews to this day but I was assigned a lot of things and for a while there I was assigned a lot of DVDs for reality shows such as and be very out of context this reminded me of a lot of like I would get season like three of Jersey Shore. and be like review this and I've never seen any of it before.

And so I was getting a little bit of a memory of like, oh, right, this is what it's like to have no context to just dive into these shows. But that song reminded me of when I had to review an old reality show called Jigilows. Oh, I've heard about this. Yeah, it's literally it's a house of male jigilos in probably Vegas, maybe Miami, you know, some typical place in America. and they each had, then they gave, they clearly gave them each like a weird little story gimmick, aside from just they're dumb and hot. And so their only job they're good for is professional porking. And they can't. And so they gave them, like one guy was trying to be a business entrepreneur and kept trying to bring that up like his business idea.

And one of them they tried to make like a rapper slash singer. And he had this song that he kept pitching over and over again where he was rapping like, I'm a juggalo, and the lyrics, that's all I can remember of the lyrics. He just opens with amajalow and he tries to, you know, thug it up. And so I heard that song, was just all taken back to like, oh, right, wow. I've heard a bad song in reality TV before. Well, Housewives music is a genre all onto itself. Like, it is very common.

Like the transition music and such, you mean? No, like the actual Housewives releasing music. Yeah, okay. So it is graded on a different metric than a lot of the music that you would listen to. But it's still fun. I'm excited to know that there's more music coming from Adriana. I think the song that we heard this season, FIAH, F-Y-A-H, is maybe not as good as Alexia ends up giving it credit for. but we'll see what what she releases.

Yeah, Adriana's song is the one thing that they seem to consider untouchable. Yeah. Like there's legit, they legit think this is a bang there. Yeah, either that or there's like a certain Omerta where you don't criticize each other's songs. Yeah, that's where the line exists. Yeah. You can betray each other. You can sleep with each other's partners.

but if someone sits down and composes a two-minute jingle, then it's sacrilege to condemn it. Well, thank you very much for doing this. Will, do you want to let everyone know where they can find you? Yeah, I'm always out in a boot for, I guess, check out. You know, I got it in hand. Surplus of Popes, that's the best thing I got going right now. There's a new book coming out this year.

There's a new game, possibly two games coming out this year. So keep an eye out in the socials under yak and shadow or through surplus of popes or even I guess, yeah, my movie reading site, movie marbles.com. It's all still out there. New content always coming. But via the Twitters and Instagrams that I've gathered, there'll be announcements for the new book and the new games rather soon. They're very, very close to being revealed. Awesome. And Dylan, how about yourself?

So, I mean, you can find me on Mind Over Splatter with Will. Also, most episodes, talking about horror movies, which is what we've been doing this whole time. You just didn't notice. It was very subtextual. It's a different kind of horror to see people who forgot to vlog. Where's the camera? Oh, no. The culting from inside the restaurant.

Yeah, we're not actually doing new episodes, but we've got a whole back catalog of a show us about horror movies. And I'm on Substack, Dylan Ferguson on Substack. Still writing about horror movies there, too. I just did a piece where I reviewed all the stab movies, even though they don't exist. Awesome, and I've been Craig Midwinter. You can find us online at Bravo Outsider.com.

And on Instagram at Bravo Outsider, until next week, keep it real. Keep looking behind you.