Oscars Outsider - Put Her Back In Her Grave w/ Dan Huen (RHONJ S13E06, VPR S10E06)

Episode Date: March 17, 2023

In this very special St. Patrick's Day episode of Bravo Outsider, Craig is in a tight spot, searching high and low for green beer but finding only Listerine. With Dylan and outsider Dan Huen tempting him to give in to peer pressure, the stakes are high. Meanwhile, we also take a closer look at the newest episodes of Real Housewives of New Jersey and Vanderpump Rules. (RHONJ S13E06, VPR S10E06) Find Dylan on substack at https://dylanferguson.substack.com/ [https://dylanferguson.substack.com/] Find Dan on Youtube at Canadian Computer Collector [https://www.youtube.com/@CanadianComputerCollector] Music by FASSounds [https://pixabay.com/users/fassounds-3433550/?utm_source=link-attribution&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=music&utm_content=112194] from Pixabay [https://pixabay.com//?utm_source=link-attribution&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=music&utm_content=112194]

Top of the morning and welcome to a very special St. Patrick's Day episode of the Bravo Outsider podcast. I'm your host, Crago Midwinter, and with me is a man whose name needs no green dye in order to get into the holiday spirit. Dylan Ferguson, how's it going? Just swell there. It's a Scottish name, but that's fine. I knew it was Gaelic or something. Yeah, yeah. It's all the same thing. Doing great. happy to have my good mic here so I can talk in low tones. Yeah, you're sounding really good.

Yeah, I won't keep doing that. It might get stuck that way. I might get Austin Butler syndrome. But happy to be back here post-Oskers and ready to drink some green beer and get sloppy with it. Yeah, I was looking for some green beer too, but the closest thing I could find was Listerine, and I opted not to go for that. Come on, come on. Let's pressure Craig and the drinking list to read on the show. Not very festive of me.

Each week we bring on someone oblivious to the ongoings of the Bravo universe and make them watch the shows to get their outsider perspective. Enlightened. This week's outsider? Enlightened. Yeah, great enlightening is upon us. This week's outsider has more classic computers than Kyle Richard has Berkins. It's Canadian computer collector Dan Hewinn.

Dan, welcome to the show. Oh, man. I can tell you guys are dedicated when you make a comparison like that. But yeah, we're over 100 at this point. And I basically, as you can see, live in an e-waste dump. But I like to think I organize it well. Right on. This is only part of it.

So one of the things that we like to do when we start the show is just get our outsiders' background on their experience with reality TV and whether they've watched any Bravo shows before. Yeah. So I would say, you know, like probably most people, my introduction to reality TV, uh, kind of initially happened with Survivor, you know, back in the year 2000, 1999, I think it was. And I sort of lost interest after the second season. And then I kind of just thought like, all reality TV sucks, right?

And I had kind of that like generic guys approach to it. You know what I mean? Like, ugh. I'm cool. I'm so cool. I don't need this. You know, like just, if people know that I like these things, they'll think I'm weak, you know, or I don't know. Anyway, I started dating someone who watched a lot of TLC. And so I've been more or less on the 90-day fiancé train ever since that started. So this is not like, you know, this is not my first rodeo, but it is certainly my first one in this genre. I should also say, too, I watched a little bit of Jersey Shore when that first came out. And I got kind of Jersey Shore vibes from Vanderpump a little bit. Oh, yeah.

Not the one that's set in New Jersey? No. Actually, this one, you know, the New Jersey, housewives of New Jersey, that is the most New Jersey thing I think I've ever seen since the Sopranos. Like it was. I'm doing a rewatch of Sopranos right now. And yeah. Oh, beautiful.

Yeah. I did one not long ago. I love it. Um, yeah, I think, uh, it's interesting that you kind of bring up the, um, how like there was a long time where like masculinity was at odds with reality TV. It was kind of seen as, you know, um, a like a feminine genre. But there's, um, I think that that is like, obviously is changing quite a bit now that. We're here to challenge that, right, fellas? It's just like that episode of Home Improvement where he's, you know, he's doing tool time and he's like, we're men of the 90s, we help out around the house, right guys? The audience is just silent.

But truly, like, I, I'm obviously very, like, comfortable telling people how much I love real housewives, but you don't see a lot of, well, straight men. that engage with this type of content. And I think that that is like, yeah, they are missing out. And that is kind of like a carryover of just these previously held ideas about reality TV. But you don't see that same attitudes being taken towards reality TV that is, you know, things like pawn stars or storage wars or gold rush. That doesn't have the same stigma for some reason.

Even though in my personal opinion, it's just a lot less sophisticated. There's a lot less compelling storylines and it seems a lot more repetitive. So I think if people aren't watching this sort of narrative reality TV, they are closing themselves off to some of the best television that is on TV. I know I'm sorry go ahead Dylan yeah I was just going to say that I think one of the reason why shows like real housewives are probably coded as more feminine is just because the structure maps on to soap operas I think that's like where they get the bones from that they kind of built the shows around and of course soap operas have obviously always been coded feminine because they were originally

marketed that way as like things that would play during the day for a woman who stay at home so I think that the roots kind of go back to the to kind of the structure that the are built around. Well, you know, it kind of is that the daytime TV audience, but it's not during the day, right? Like, it's, this is like what they'd watch at night, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, that's what like the same demographic. Maybe there's some crossover there, but. Yeah, yeah. I just mean, like, the kind of narratives that, like, are, are based on soap operas and that, like, that kind of storytelling has always been associated with women's content. These shows, these shows, these shows, may as well be soap operas because like

yeah the whole thing is about dating you know what I mean like that so it's my takeaway after watching Vanderpump rule it's just like all they're all they're talking about is dating like it may as well be a soap opera because soap operas are just about relationships right like except it's

people I guess and this is another thing drives me that's about reality TV is they're skirting paying actors to act like they're just they're getting real people and being like do this and then they do it and like sometimes it comes off legit and then sometimes you're just like you know like this just feels so forced you know like why don't you just yeah pay the actors in

the first place right like i think bravo actually does a very good job of not making their characters actions feel forced but the scenarios are definitely what is forced and they use outside um outside characters a lot to it to drive the narrative so um You, it kind of makes their, they kind of create a playground for all of these characters to play around in and they construct these situations in such a way that it will drive the story. But I think that. I didn't get the vibe that they were feeding them lines or anything. But, you know, I definitely felt like maybe some of these scenarios were, maybe like encouraged by the production team. You know what I mean?

Like there was, I won't get into it until later because we're going to get into each episode. But in that Real Housewives episode, like when she drops that information on her friend at the baseball game in the middle of the baseball game, I'm like, this is like the worst time to tell someone something like that. I'm sure the producers are just like, hey, this would be a great time to go tell her. You know what I mean? Like so I think there's probably a little bit of that. It doesn't feel forced necessarily. but I bet you they're like, this would be a spicy moment

and then they kind of just get them in there and see what happens. I think there are moments where it does feel forced, but that's not a negative for me. Like it's part of the tensions at play is like when you can see the producers and the editor's fingerprints on the material. That's part of the tensions

that are kind of pushing and pulling the characters in different directions without necessarily disguising who the people actually are. And sometimes you actually see things about the people that you might not have seen if they weren't kind of, resisting or reacting to what seems like an enforced narrative.

So for me, it's not necessarily like a flaw. It's part of the, part of the tensions that are at play. Yeah, I agree. I think I see a lot of that as part of the craft. And like when you see it happen very skillfully, it is, it's beautiful to watch it play out. And also, I think they find really funny ways to include that type of dynamic. Like one of the common tropes that you see is sometimes they'll bring on like a psychic, which is clearly just like a vessel for like the producers to get information and introduce it without having to, you know, put it in anyone's, anyone's mouth. And you also see things like we saw on Real Housewives of Miami a few episodes ago where they get the, uh, the rage therapy instructor to come in and, uh, as an effort to really just.

like drive up the the tension, which they didn't end up meeting at all at that dinner, but that's the sort of like play that you see from the producers that I really love to see because, I mean, it shows that they care

and they are thinking about their stories during production, not just finding it in the edit. Yeah, well, yeah, that's true. And we don't, though I will say, though, one thing I felt about Vanderpump is it felt like maybe they weren't forcing situations. you know, in the classic sense of the word,

but I think maybe they were forcing a situation in a lot of times where there was just nothing really going on and they're still taping it. You know, like some of those conversations, it's like, you know, like Lala, I think her name was talking to her friend who just got divorced and she's like, so what kind of man are you looking for?

You know, she's like, I want someone who cares about me. And it's just like, you know, this is the most like default conversation about love that I've ever heard in my life. Like, why would you, keep this? Is it because there was literally nothing else going on? Or you're just like,

we need footage. Get out there. You know, like, I just That is a beautiful Katie impression, by the way. Yeah, spot on. I do I do want to get into that scene specifically a bit later. But for now, let's start off with Real Housewives

of New Jersey. Let's launch into it. Dan, what were your highlights from Real Housewives of New Jersey? Um, okay, so I thought some of the highlights for me were just, so I do want like specific scenes. I'll start with, I thought the baseball game scene was really interesting and how long it ended up playing out. I felt like a lot of things happened during that baseball game. It was almost like half the episode, really. It was like a buildup to that and then that, although I thought the therapy sessions were hilarious.

Like both of them. There were two therapy sessions. One was with, um, Teresa, I think her name is at the beginning. Yeah. And then near the end, there's one with that couple, I think it's Jennifer and Bill. Jane Bill, yeah. Yeah.

And so, you know, the first session I thought was so funny because the therapist says something to her that I think everyone in the world wants to say to this woman, which is you have the power to make all of this stop. Like, if you're worried about your life being toxic, you have the power to make it stop. Like your life is literally the product of your act. And she's like, oh, wow. You know what I mean? Like, it's just like there's all these flashbacks in the episode of her like clothes lining a table full of drinks and like shouting at people in a restaurant.

And it's just like, all these toxic people. It's like, you know, there's a great phrase that I once heard from a boss of mine. And it wasn't, he was talking about difficult clients and stuff. And he's like, it's like there's an old phrase my mom had, which was if there's a chair in the middle of the room and everyone keeps walking into it, maybe you should move the chair, you know? And it's like, Teresa, you are the chair, you know, like, everyone in the room is just like, oh, she's. And then the other therapy session that made me laugh was the one with the couple, because as they're going into it, you know,

Bill's like, this is going to be awful. And it was. And the whole time she's like, oh, it's going to be great. You know, remember we're here to just get stronger. And you can talk about my behavior if you want to. She's just like, I hate him. I hate him and I'll leave him if I have to. You know what I mean? Like, it's just. I think this is like a long overdue, like, venting session for Jen. It sounds like that.

Yeah, I thought that this was a really good therapy scene. It was, it was interesting when Bill kind of brought up the different parenting dynamics that they have with their kids. When he's talking about how Jen gets to be like the perfect parent who, gives them what they want and he has to take on this asshole role and now how this like infidelity coming out like just compounds this adversarial relationship that he sometimes has with with the children. I thought that that was an interesting dynamic that I hadn't really thought about because as a parent like you definitely do like you try to be sort of balanced but you know it's tough to achieve perfect balance. And, you know, so it's, it's interesting to see how something like that

would potentially impact a parental child relationship. Well, you know, like, I can't speak for everyone out there, but I feel like cheating is, it's just not, like it means, I guess maybe some people have found a groove to make it work afterward, but I don't think anyone really gets over that, you know, like I think for them to have kept going because they have so many children, I mean, that's an admirable thing to do on some level. But at the same time, like, he effed up huge. Like, I mean, that's not something that you can be sour about after the fact. You know what I mean?

Like, oh, well, I have to be the enforcer. Well, now my kids hate me even more because I cheated on their mom. And it's like, who are you mad at, man? You should be mad at yourself because, like, you know, like you are the product of your actions, right? Like we were saying earlier. Yeah, I think that for, for Gen 2, why it's like she needs so badly to rant at this therapist about him, but at the therapist sitting next to him is because Bill like won't really argue with her. Like, uh, yeah, he's like a pretty

like reserved guy and kind of wishy-washy and kind of both sides arguments and stuff. And like, he will like grow more stern, but he doesn't really communicate with her much. So I feel like for her like she doesn't have that outlet to actually like argue with him. because he just kind of is too impassive, just doesn't react enough. So, like, to be able to have him seated on a couch next to her while she shouts at somebody else who's actually going to react to what she's saying is probably the most helpful thing for her at this moment. He just turns into a mood ring, you know.

I'm also, like, a bit of curious as to how Jen's relationship with her, or how she views her own parents' relationship, how that plays onto her feelings in this, because her parents we see in previous seasons have a very, like, a lot of turmoil between them. And they were involved in an arranged marriage. I'm not sure what the status of their relationship is now, but they were apart for a while. And the fact that Jen seems, to indicate that she very quickly wanted to get past the infidelity and move on and pretend like things were okay and that was how she was dealing with it. I wonder if that is the result of how she saw her relationship with her parents and whether she has concerns about, you know,

burying things and not dealing with them, how that will potentially play out in the future for her Bill. Yeah, I think that's a good observation. And I think this, uh, the fact that I don't think Jen would really seriously consider leaving Bill. I don't think she's given any, any hints that she would actually, uh, do that as more than maybe a threat that she would say at one point when she's angry, um, probably maybe because of some of that family history, like you said, Craig. And, and then also, of course, it would just be a huge upheaval in her life. Uh, I think that also is maybe a bit of a master key to some of her actions too. Like, um, um, The most shocking part about the therapy session for me was that when she's saying, like, you know, I'm upset because like he cheated on me.

Then Margaret found out. And Margaret started spreading the story. And the therapist says something like, like, how does that make you feel? And she's like, well, I'm angry. He did it because if he didn't, Margaret wouldn't have anything to say. Yeah. Like she's actually, she's more mad about the fact that he gave Margaret ammunition than that he actually cheated. And I think you can kind of read this like escalating a war of attrition she's carrying out.

against Margaret as like a way for her to do something about this infidelity, which is obviously very upsetting to her against a target that she can actually act against because I think she feels powerless to do anything against Bill because he's so impassive because she's not actually going to leave him. It's like there's nothing she can really do against him, but she can pour all her energies into this long Cold War that involves everybody directed at Margaret. That's something she can do. And I think that's kind of why she's doing it in a way. That's really, that's really interesting that you kind of bring that up because that, I think parallels a relationship that we see or how Katie handles her anger towards Tom Schwartz

in Vanderpump rules where she has had no success with getting mad at Tom Schwartz during their like their relationship. So she, like she projects that. anger on whatever target she can like sheena or rakel and um that's how that anger is manifesting so that's yeah that's a really interesting uh interesting point yeah yeah i can see that parallel too that that that's a good point because tom is also that kind of like impassiveish sort of wishy-washy guy who would just wouldn't be very satisfying to get mad at because he wouldn't push back um dan did you have any other highlights well i was going to say we should talk about margaret because

I made a few notes about her. I don't know. How harsh can I be on this show? Yeah, go all in. They're not listening. No one's listening. All right. So the first thing I said is from the opening montage, it looks like Margaret is made

of pudding. And then I said that, oh, I said, ha, ha, ha, ha. She says, Joe is wiping her ass because she broke her arm. Why can't she wipe with her other arms? arm is she that dumb? That's what the note that I made. Yeah, that was also pretty shocking. Ask your husband to wipe your ass. I've had, I've had my right arm to sling before. You learned to use your left arm. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah, like, I've broken my arm before. You don't ask, you don't invite someone else in in the process. Well, Margaret does it. And Joe's not going to say no. He's,

yeah. I think Margaret is loving the victim rule there a bit. Oh, yeah. Even when, Jen Fessler, like, comes in. Margaret's like, oh, yeah, I can't, I can't get up because of my arm. Like, she doesn't get up to greet her. Oh, yeah, just sit down. I can't come around because my arm. I'm just not going to do anything that I've never felt like doing before in the first place now, because I have a broken arm.

I don't know. I think my, the thing I wrote about her too is that it seems like they're all afraid of her because she's the loudest dog in the pack. You know what I mean? Like, I feel like this whole Jersey Housewives show, is could just be solved with Caesar Milan. You know what I mean? Like their pack needs to find its order

because they're all nipping at each other. It's just like, and it's, and it is the loudest one that's winning. Like I'm not trying to sound crass, but like that's the best comparison. It's like pack mentality with these people, you know, because all of them are so aggressive.

And then what else do they have in here? Oh, I said that Bill kind of looked like an older, are Jimmy Smith's. Okay, I can see that. Yeah, I can see that for sure. I love Jimmy Smith, so that's a compliment. Oh, I said that. Margaret also, I kept calling her Marge in my notes,

but Margaret seems like she's trying to be like Joan Rivers a lot, but doesn't have the chops. You know what I mean? Like, she's trying to be like, yeah, I'm so pretty. Oh, okay, yeah, I see what you mean. Like, you know, oh, look at my beautiful, you know, hairless wrist and like yeah well you know props for trying but i don't know i didn't the baseball game i think is really the big thing we got to chat about because there's a lot that happened there but

like i got i got to i got to be honest i don't understand how that works like are they the only thing i don't understand how baseball works either to me how are they getting like 200 grand in in cash raised like are they selling so yeah there is this literally just people are paying to go and to buy the calendar apparently. Because I thought they were just showing up like before an MLB game or something and doing their thing. No, yeah. It was like definitely a smaller ballpark.

Like it was definitely the size of like the the gold eyes ballpark. Probably about like capacity of like 5,000 people. But they would have made money off of selling the tickets and the calendars and stuff like that. They were playing a group of doctors, I think. So presumably there was a lot of like wealth that was. Okay. Well, you know what that tracks a little bit. Make donations. If Craig was in New York that weekend, he would have gone.

Come on. Oh, yeah. I probably would have two if I was there at that time. How long have they been doing that show? I noticed they had a lot of flashbacks that went like 10 years almost. Yeah, this is what, season 13 now? Oh, yeah. A long last time.

And it will have been a bit longer than that because Teresa was in prison for a year and they put the show on hiatus. Wait, why'd she go to jail? Tax fraud. Her and her husband both went to jail. That's how they picked up Capone, right? Yeah, well, and then he got deported because he was like an Italian citizen. No way. Were they doing some shady stuff on top of that or just?

I think it was just like tax fraud, probably like the most victimless of any house. wife that has gone to jail. I think there's only two, but. I was going to say, she looked kind of tired. She's got like jail eyes, so that makes sense. Yeah, baseball game, so the part that I was talking about earlier about how I was like, I feel like the producers might have pushed them in on this was when the younger one, I can't remember her name, unfortunately, tells, uh, Rachel, Jennifer about her daughter.

wanting to be a love therapist. And she's like, it's because she knows about, like, her husband cheating and all that. She told her that in the middle of the baseball game. And I'm like, you're in the middle of something where everyone's trying to focus on doing well. And you're like, here's a bomb, like a serious bomb about your child. I think, like, there'd be like 50% of the crowd at least would have been happier to see a, like, a fight breakout on the sidelines between two house. wise than to actually you know watch joe gorga hit dingers all the ball game they're they're not there because they're huge baseball fans going to see the best show in town oh i wrote a note on the baseball game i said this is like watching a charity ball game for the class of 1995's top bar stars that's probably accurate there was one person there that had the had a sign that said like i love joey g like there's a joe g there's a joe g fan and

out there that made a sign and brought the baseball game. That's his buddy for sure. Yeah. And he bought him a beer for doing that. Another thing I noticed too is that in the the locker room, Margaret's mouth is physically massive. Like it just, you know, a normal mouth might take up this much room. Hers is like, you know, like just.

I think that happens over time in New Jersey because they all have that like catfish scowl, which is just part of like the facial expressions that you get in New Jersey. Like, there's, like, definitely, like, Italian, New Jersey, like, hand expressions and facial expressions. And they all do that kind of scowl thing, like, even when they're smiling. They still, it still is like a catfish scowl. I'm not insulting them. Like, I like it. It's great.

But I think over time, yeah, it probably widens the width of your mouth a little bit. Another note I made is I love how every time someone arrives at the ballgame, another person is worried. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, gosh, that's hilarious. Oh, you know what? Another thing I was going to say, too, something I thought was funny was that, you know that I think it's Dolores's ex-husband was talking about how like, oh, you know,

it's so awkward now with this Polly guy around. And I'm like, didn't we just hear like 10 minutes ago about how you used to get so angry you'd get violent and break the furniture in your house? and you're like, what's she doing? You know, like. Yeah. Yeah, I think like there was, he's like pretty open about how he was like a shitty husband in the past. And then they broke up.

But then they've had like what we've seen in front of the cameras as this really like model, model relationship for how they interact and like living together and co-baranting. Well, it seemed like they handled their doors. Well, like well enough for the kids. all that. But like at a certain point, you know, Mussels McPherson's got to realize she's going to move on, right? Like, she's not just going to want to be sexless and babysitting for the rest of her life. You know what I mean? Like, you know, she's going to, one piece of context is that, uh, Dolores's previous relationship that we saw last season and the season prior, Frank ended up becoming very good friends with Dolores's boyfriend and was always around. And then even after, they broke up. Frank lived with Dolores's ex-boyfriend and they were just like buddies.

Okay. So I think that that's the type of relationship that he's like trying to go for. Yeah, it's a very like unconventional relationship that I really love seeing on on screen. I think this is the product of having like six or seven couples that are all the same crew. And there's like, yeah, families intertwined and stuff and they're, uh,

going on but yeah Frank definitely thinks that it's he expects to still be in in Dolores's life an important part of it no matter what and I don't think it's necessarily an unrealistic expectation but it is unrealistic to expect there won't be occasionally tensions because of that yeah

but at the same no I was just going to say at the same time him and Polly do seem to get along pretty well even though they're kind of like playing up a bit of a burgeoning tension between them they have special nicknames for each other they're not like at each other's throats at all they call each other's their buzzing spot. It's kind of cute. No, you know, I thought it was an interesting show.

I definitely felt like I was watching people I have a hard time relating to this time around. Not just not just not because like of the the wealth and everything, but just like they're so, so aggressive and they're so like, it seems like all they think about are other people and relationships and stuff. And, like, you know, I'm just not wired like that, right? Like, I like friends and relationships and stuff. That's not my only, that's not my obsession. Like, they're all obsessed with what each other are doing, you know? Yeah, you kind of need, in order to be successful, you need a perfect combination of being very selfish, but also really concerned about other people's business. Yes.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, you know, it's funny. The overall thought that I had, I said, is, uh, this was, the, okay, yeah, I said, I feel like I spent most of my adult life actively avoiding people like this, just spending all their money on food and alcohol, and then I wrote in quotes, what's Wikipedia? I feel like that's something that would come up in their conversations. Dylan, what were your highlights from this episode? Yeah, I like this episode, I thought it was a good one.

Getting ready for the ball game was cool. Like the moments in the show, where I think they're the kind of come up with setups that are supposed to provoke envy or like a kind of wishfulfill bit like you know I wish I was there kind of thing they don't always work for me in these shows in general like you know go into a resort in the Bahamas and doing yoga with flamingos was not something that appealed to be. But when they're in this like batting cage arcade with like plates full of like nachos and buckets of open wine bottles on ice and like little goblets, I was like yeah this looks like fun. I wish I was hanging out there. And then the ball game ruled. I just liked that they actually had the score on screen and actually followed along and they actually presented a ball game more or less. I thought that was a ton of fun. And it's just like great to have people play sports because they'll like, they become a little more less cost of it. I guess they reveal themselves a little bit more sometimes because people get competitive and they get into it. And that's really fun.

So there's a lot of fun moments in there. You know, Joe cutting his sleeves off and then cutting the sleeves off for his kid. Because of course his kid's going to want to do it when he does it. Yeah. And then being so proud of his kid. Danielle making a catch and being super proud of it. And then getting that awesome like home video moment, presumably filmed by Big Phil of Daniel, like getting on the plate with her bat and chewing gum really aggressively, just getting really into it. I thought that was really cute and just like a really great moment showing Daniel's character.

So it was just really fun to have a ballgame. I mostly just like that a lot. And I'm still very much enjoying the Cold War between Margaret and Jennifer, where like eventually everybody's alliance that they've had at some point or a favor that they've shown to somebody else is going to. to get like dragged into this and uh you said dan and margaret's like the loudest dog in the pack yeah that's part of it the other part is something that jennifer actually says in this episode is that she has secrets on everybody she's like j Edgar hoover in this world she has everybody's secrets and that's why she holds the power and jennifer aiden is like richard nixon at his first turn and being like i know she's got shit in everybody but we're going to have to find a way to take her down

and i really like that dynamic so uh i'm there for the that that's a lot of fun um yeah that's that's basically it uh dolores's dad showing up with a whole tuli of coke and yeah i brought my own yeah you brought a two leader i was like i don't want to put you's out just walking in with two leader okay yeah great great dad moment there great you know what i love too is he's like he brings a two liter at coke and then he's like i don't want none with caffeine or i'll be tap dancing all night it's like you just brought a two leader. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, that's that's about my thoughts, I guess. What about you, Craig? Yeah, I, that covers most of it. I was a little puzzled why they gave Joe Gorga such a superstar

athlete edit. In the ball, in the batting cages, they show everyone failing and then like, they gave Joe Gorga this like hero moment where he goes and just like, knocks one out and then maybe he was the only one who actually managed to get a good hit in maybe that's why they had no choice

yeah but then they did it again during the ball game like he was like portrayed as this superstar with fans in the in the crowd though I thought that that was like fun but it's because he brought the bat into the editing room afterwards was that his kid that they were so hyper

focused on at the end of the game the 13 year old kid that was like playing well Yeah, it could have been. I don't necessarily remember that part. He definitely, little Joey definitely had a big moment. There was another kid who had a big moment too, I think. I think Louis kid.

I think Teresa's like, hey, say you dye your hair. And then he's like, oh, no, it's just from the sun. And then she's like, oh, yeah, like my daughter's. Right. That's actually a not bad Teresa impression. I got to say. One thing that came up, there was kind of a contrast between two comments that had been previously said that were making the rounds. I wanted to get both of your opinions on which you thought was worse or if you thought either were shit talking or if it was just making a mountain out of a molehill.

So the first one was that Marge had said to Melissa, like, oh, you're so pretty, you could be with any ball player. want. That was something that Jennifer was kind of pushing as being potentially disrespectful and trying to egg Melissa on to leave the relationship. And the other was Teresa apparently saying that Marge is a better to have as a friend than an enemy. So I want to get your takes on these two comments and whether or not you thought one was worse than the other or if they're both just nothing. Well, I'll go first. I think that both of them are being strategically overblown and neither of them struck

as like especially insulting. So you could be with any ballplay or you want. I guess I can see the angle that it's somewhat not encouraging, but just proposing the possibility that you could be with somebody other than your husband, which is not much. but, you know, they'll take whatever they need in this, in this campaign. And then the other one, I'm almost surprised because I would think that Margaret would take that as a compliment. I feel like that's a whole thing is that you want me as a friend and you'd hate to have me as an enemy even more than you want me as a friend. I feel like she should embrace that.

That's like her whole personality. It's so I have a little, a little surprise that that was being treated as a huge insult. But, you know, they're going to use what they can. It's all ammunition. I think the first one was the only one really that struck me as kind of like a backhanded compliment. Because, yeah, I'm saying you're a beautiful little love. You could be with any baseball player or whatever. Like knowing that she's married, that's obviously like a jab at the husband or at her or whatever.

You know what I mean? Like it's one of those lines where someone would say that to you, you'd be like, all right. Like, what are you talking about? Yeah. I kind of lean towards like you said Dan. I feel like that seems like a bit bigger of a dig, not at Melissa, but at Joe. But I think you're right, Dylan. They're both being used very strategically here in order to try to drive the narrative that each one of these people want to want to get at.

Yeah, and I do like Danielle's interpretation. That's a weird way to compliment somebody. You want to compliment me? You tell me my boobs look perky. That was so good. Yeah. Yeah, we didn't see much of Danielle, but like, I think she's shining through the season. She was the one with the braids at the baseball game. Is that the one? The blonde hair and braids?

Blonde hair. Yeah, because she was the one that was like, I used to play sports with boys growing up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She got a good moment in the baseball game. And like, like I said, that flashback to the home video was beautiful. So that was a very brief moment, but it was great. Even in the home video, her dad's like, you're on her to throw? She's like, throw it. piece of crap about it. Yeah, aggressively chewing the fucking of the gum. Let's go. Let's fucking go. She's the terror of the old neighborhood. Before we move on to Vanderpump

rules, did either of you have any final thoughts on the Real Housewives of New Jersey? You know what? It's, in my opinion, it's one of those shows where, like, it seems like there's so many characters and so much going on that you only get a taste of it in that one episode. You know, like, it's a lot of people to keep track of and give a meaningful amount of airtime to you. That's what they hook you then.

Just felt like it needed to be like two hours or something, you know. Well, there's more than two hours that you can go back and watch for sure. Oh, my God. Yeah, well aware of that fact, 13 years worth. So, oh, go ahead. No, no, I was going to say that about covers all my thoughts. Though I did want to point out, I feel like Rachel Fuda's face somehow gets more narrow every episode. I'm not really sure what a principal at work and that is.

I don't know. I feel like if she went cross-eyed, she could stare into her own soul. Her eyes are getting so close together. Yeah, I feel like Rachel's going to be a one-and-done housewife. I don't think that she's going to be back next season unless they really need someone that can, you know, sit on Melissa's side and gas are up. Yeah. Is that how it works?

They switch up the roster every season? Yeah, there's like people that will get either like demoted or removed from the cast and then they'll bring on new ones. But, um, you know, Teresa has been on since season one. So are they all just like women who know each other or do they? They like to introduce them. Yeah, they like to introduce them like through some sort of connection ideally. But they are like cast. So there's casting for these shows.

These are your friends now. Yeah, of course they're going to drive each other nuts. Yeah, I get it. It's like a sports team. There'll be some roster churn usually from year to year. Yeah, exactly. So on to Vanderpump Rules. And this was a episode that was highly high.

hyped coming into this week. Andy said specifically that you would think that this episode was recut in light of the scandival news, but it has been untouched. So this is Vanderpump Rules as it was intended to be presented. So all of the clues and all of the plot lines that we see emerging here that we're viewing you know, with the knowledge that we've accrued over the last two weeks is, as it was intended to be presented. Dan, I'm not sure if you looked into Vanderpump rules prior to this or have seen any of the Scandival news? No.

Okay, so you should go back and listen to our episode two episodes ago where we go into in-depth. But basically what happened is Raquel, who you see in this episode and Tom Sandoval, who is also in this episode. It came to light that they were having a long-term affair while this was going on. So for about eight, nine months or something like that. And it rocked the Bravo world. So that's kind of the knowledge that we have going into this that people are watching to see how this plays out. is the second Tom like the

it's one of the Schwartz guy but the guy yeah not Schwartz Tom with the mustache is the guy you know what you guys

like this the note that I had for that was he looks like cocaine as a person yeah wearing that Freddie Kruger ass shirt

and his mustache yeah it looks like a nut gold jewelry want to buy a used car um Dan, what were your highlights from this episode? Okay, so I thought this was kind of a strange show.

Now, I find it funny that this was a very hyped up episode. I guess it's because some fighting happened and all that. But, like, I felt like very little actually took place on this show. It was supposed to be, like, I guess if you were pitching it as a producer, you're like, yeah, this is the episode where, you know, she goes on a resort or, like, a trip to go deal with her feeling. things with the divorce and he has a guy's night blah blah blah the guy's night lasted like five minutes of the show at the end and then the that's going to be for next episode mostly well probably

yeah like because when it ended I'm like this is a very weird cliffhanger but I did want to know what happened and then the whole like getting your Schwartz back thing it was just the most annoying thing in the world but like so I have a lot of questions and a lot of notes on this show but I guess I'll start at the top where they're coming back from the club I guess and they're at that hotel room in Vegas. And they're like, you know, me coming into this cold when, what is it, Raquel came in with food she'd microwaved, they were like, oh, my God, I can't handle this right now. And it's like, we've never seen a human being microwave and eat food.

Like, you know, and then I think another comment. Like, what she did was she took all of their leftovers from the rest of them. And she was on the bed. Didn't she make out with a guy that La La liked too? I remember that was a big part of it. So I think that's probably where the tension initially started. And then she was just kind of in her face at the end of the night with the food. And that's probably what happened.

I said, although I said, first thought, holy F. 54 minutes. And then I said, the opening montage was very Jersey Shoreish, annoying, attractive people. who probably think bananas cost $6 each. It's because they're rich. Okay, so, oh, I also, I made this note because in the beginning, Raquel was talking about how she needs to focus on herself right now. Oh, it's crap. And I wrote, I said, Raquel is focusing on herself, which I'm sure she hasn't done all her life. Very sarcastically.

Then I said, I lull when rich people are like, I just had a breakup, but I need to focus on myself and continue not having to work to survive. You know, like just. Well, arguably, Raquel is working very hard this season. She is still at the restaurant, I'm part of the restaurant as well as being, you know, a TV star. Another first thought I had was one of their names is Lala, Jesus Christ. But I guess I saw, well, my headphones got out. I guess I saw her name. name was Lauren.

Lauren from Utah. Yeah. She admits it this episode. She knows how to have a lake party. Yeah. And that felt so forced. Like, so, okay, where do we go from the hotel room scene? What happens after that again?

They, that's when, oh, right, they go, they drive out to Rachel's rental house or whatever, which is humongous. Like, it has like a three-car. garage and then like a two car garage in the corner you know like just a huge rental house and then they're having their little retreat there and then that other girl shows up what's her name Charlie Charlie yeah I wrote something that like Charlie seems crazy yeah you know what I I don't remember what I wrote for that but I remember Charlie seemed like a lot of like crazy energy and like I need a shot like all the time you know so

She seemed like really aggressive. And I guess she was the one that kind of pushed Raquel to push back against the other three. I'll admit, the other three were kind of treating her crappily. I mean, no one wants to be the fourth that everyone's making fun of while you're on a trip. So I don't blame her for leaving. But Charlie definitely seemed like a lot, you know. Yeah, this was the first chance we've really, like Charlie has really had to play ball this season. so she came in and was definitely trying to get stuff going.

I enjoyed Charlie's presence. I thought that it was really great. I think she came in with a really good read on Christina Kelly. Like, oh, she used to work at Sir, but now she sells lip gloss for a living. It's a really good gig since. That was so shady. Christina Kelly was on one, like, the early seasons of Vanderpump Rules and never, like gain traction as a character.

So I thought it was a particularly cutting dig. That moment where she's making fun of her for being a waiter. And then there said, she's like, yeah, it's the halapeno one. Try it. Just trust me. And like the old man, she's serving a tooth looks like the most like traditional, greasy millionaire dude with a gray mullet and the big blue suit and like just, you know what I mean?

Like straight out of the 80s. That's Ken. Right? Yeah. That's Ken and Lisa. Those were the owners of the restaurant. Oh, it was just brutal. But I found another note here that I made about Lala, which there were two notes.

So I thought it was really funny. I don't, like, I hold, I guess, these people to a high standard because they're on TV. But I think on some level they're kind of morons. But like she said she's lucky like I'm holding it together right now because otherwise I would put her back. in her grave. Yeah. I noticed that too. As if she's a zombie.

That's where she came from and that's where she belonged. That was a great line. That was a great line. And then the other one I thought it was super funny. It was how she was like, like, I said, Lala's probably the president of it's different because it's me club. Because like when she's getting Raquel shit on the bed. And Raquel's like, you literally slept with my boyfriend.

And she's like, you need to get over that. And it's like, You're giving her shit for the same thing while also telling her to get her. Not even the same thing for suggesting that she could potentially possibly do that if Lala had a theoretical boyfriend. Like, it's so wrong. Like, I couldn't believe. I'm like, I can't believe I'm sitting here listening to someone, an adult actually believe that. Unbelievable.

I mean, these people are such narcissists. It's almost painful sometimes. The other thing that I thought was really funny was the whole rental house thing. Now, that felt like there was like nothing planned. And they just shot it anyway. You know what I mean? Like that felt like, oh, we're going to go rent this big beach house on the surface. Maybe when they pitched it, it sounded like there'd be a big party there or something.

It'd be parties all around or whatever. In reality, they're just filming three chicks being bored in a giant house. Like sitting around that stupid conversation about. what your next point is going to be like yeah exactly like all these little like gadgets that the production crew probably had to come up with to try and spice it up even a slight amount like it just felt like there wasn't anything going on you know and they were kind of making a mountain out of a molehill yeah i think like production was definitely left hung out to dry once rickal and charlie made the decision to leave there was nothing really left to do they had to just play out the rest of this that boat party that they went to, you can tell they had no interest in those guys. And they're just, and did you notice that all the shots were like super closeups from the ground, like of them dancing and stuff? And it's like, yeah, yeah, I guess we don't get to see that there's actually nothing happening. The best part about that is they're leaving.

And they're like, okay, bye guys. Oh, he fell again. Oh, okay. And then the end the scene there. Like, oh, he fell again. Okay. He's so wasted. So fun.

And then what really surprised me was after that when they went to that, that, like, crappy little bar or whatever, how Lala's like... That bar looked awesome. She's like, we're leading with the Vajajah tonight. Like, what? Oh, that was funny. Yeah, you know, it just... The problem that I have with that, though, is that it did feel dry. Like, it felt like they were building it up to be this thing.

And then it just ended up being. nothing. Yeah, I mean, there were supposed to be three other people there that would have definitely stirred things up a little bit. But yeah, you're right. Once Raquel left, this trip basically ends for me. The only other notable thing about it, I think, is the Pignata, the Mark Zuckerberg Pignada that they take down. Oh, you know, I made a note that all four of them in the car must have like $20,000. thousand in lip fillers on the ride up. Don't need airbags for that reason. I have a question about this Tom guy.

So Tom Schwartz, the one, he's got this chicken his apartment, who's like pumping his tires nonstop. And I'm just assuming this is some girl who wants to bang him or something. You know what I mean? She's in a relationship. They're not married, right?

No, she's in a relationship. Well, and I found that on. It made me seem so like, like I see. So the note I made was WTF is this Tom thing. This girl helping him sounds like talking is hard for her like the equivalent of walking in a pool. Well, okay. I'm I'm interested in getting into this. What do you think like Sheena's motivation is for? I don't understand it. That's what I'm curious about. Like I can only like the first place I go is that. maybe she's got a little bit of a thing for him. Because I've never seen a woman go that hard to bat for a guy who's freshly single,

you know, unless like they've been lifelong friends or their family or like, there's some thread there. They've been friends for a very long time. They have been friends for a very long time. And I think that's a big part of it is that Shina is good friends with Tom Schwartz. Like they've been doing the show together for like 10 years. Oh, okay.

And I think the other. part of it is that she as i've mentioned in a previous episode i see her as like a reality tv pro like she wants to uh stir the pot and move the plot she wants to she she moves things forward she knows what her job is she uh she knows the description so i think it's a combination of both she wants uh things to happen she wants moving forward and she's actually good friends with tom and actually does want tom to uh i laugh so hard that that scene where they're like throwing his clothes out i said he must be so high on anxiety meds to allow this unless he's also trying to get with them. But I'm coming in Cole, right?

I don't know the context here. They're just throwing his clothes out. I'm like, what is the point of that? And then I have more notes with that later. What's that? Go ahead. Oh, no, I was, I was just going to say, like, I agree with you, Dylan. I think that this is 100% Sheena, like, showing her chops as a reality TV professional.

She, like, in this scene, definitely like gassing him up, setting up the, um, the the guys night out dinner and then later we see her plant the seeds even more by there's just like a quick shot of her and brock in the park where she makes sure that she gets the line in team schwartz yeah she's definitely like positioning herself this is this is getting your shorts back is so annoying i she said it like six times let's get you shorts back of like you don't even know what you're saying like you have no idea you just you just think it's oh yeah no she's It's better than the Schwartzonetters, but they bust out of it. That was kind of adorably dorky at the end when Tom Schwartz is like, yeah, the Schwarzenator, it's a new nickname he gave me.

Oh, if my ex was here, she would hate that. And like, well, she's not here, Tom. It's like, oh, yeah, she's not here. I'm the Schwarzenator. Just like an eight-year-old boy. It was just so strange to me. And I was trying to piece it all together because, like, you know, there are a couple of Tom's and there were divorced people. And I was like, all right, so obviously, you know, connect the dots.

These are the two people who were married. So, like, she was married to him for a long time. But then the other thing I didn't realize was that Raquel girl, she was married to a guy too. Wasn't she, like, almost married? Yeah. And then he's British or something. Yeah. Yeah.

And somehow that's not the worst thing about him. Well, he looked like the worst. Like, especially at the end there, he's like, well, because boy's not means nothing then. You know, like just. Yeah. you seem insufferable. And then she's talking about how he was like, trash talking to her dad.

Your dad's miserable because he has a fat wife. And it's like, you know what, man, like you're miserable and everyone around you is going to be miserable. Like, you're just such a loser. Put some respect on James Kennedy's name.

DJ James Kennedy. I will never put respect that James Kennedy. I think I made a clear by now on this show that I find him absolutely noxious. The other thing, too, like the way that, I don't know, maybe this is just me being. 35 now, but like the way all these guys are dressed for the club, just, you know, here I am

being an old guy crapping on young people, but just it makes me cringe so hard. Just like, you know, black shirt that's way too long, jeans that are basically tights, and then a huge chain. You know, like this. Nice, you know. Speaking of chains, this episode was the first time that we got to see this. the lightning bolt necklace on Tom Sandoval. If anyone was looking for clues on the, um, the relationship between Tom and Raquel,

that was one of the things that came out during, uh, the Scandival was that, uh, Sandoval and Raquel had matching lightning bolt necklaces that, uh, symbolized their love for each other. And this,

I think was the first episode where we've actually seen it on screen and, and Tom Sanne on Tom, on Tom, but we haven't seen it on Raquel, have we? No, we haven't. So wait.

So Raquel was married. to the British guy and sleeping with that Tom guy at the same time? No, it was after they broke up. Oh, okay. Which is not taken into account in the show because it wasn't no one at that point. Why is it such a scandal that she was sleeping with that guy? Because he's been in a relationship for a very long time. Oh, he was in a relationship for a very long time with Ariana, who wasn't really in this episode.

Well, you see her sad about her dog who died. The blonde girl who was sad about her dog who died. Yeah. So her and Tom have been together for many years. Yeah, we got that one glimpse of her. Lisa makes a phone call. Like, oh, I'm just looking at my dog's graves and thought of you. Dicking of you.

And then she's like, you're going to put a grave in your yard? She's like, well, if I do, I can't move. And she's like, oh, yeah, I'm going to bury my husband here. Okay, bye. Hey, just called your dog's dead. See you later. Dylan, how would you? What highlights did you have from this episode?

Oh, a lot. I mean, I like this a lot. I mean, contrary to dad, I thought there was a ton of content, but that's because I know these characters, you know? That's the difference, of course, is that when you've been following the characters for a long time, you see a lot of content and what would otherwise be, like, very small things. I loved as awkward.

as it was, the bit of Raquel and the, that, you know, the three-headed drag in there, that King Guitary of bitchiness of those three girls in the hotel later. I love that scene. I loved the relationship, just the spatial relationship between the characters, like when we see the three of them under the cover in the bed with all their heads next to each other and Raquel sitting on top of the cover at the foot of the bed, trying to engage with them. Just like you understand the situation so much just by how they're placed next to each other.

And then Raquel kind of coming and going and the way that she's kind of lurking around the edge of the doorframe while they shit talking in. Which like both like purpose perfectly shows how that she's kind of starting to get on the nerves of those three and like really starting to exasperate them and why they're starting to in Lala's word see her as like some kind of undead arrest. evident and also just show like how awkward she is and just like how horribly out of place she feels at that moment and just like that that like extreme awkwardness that's going on there I thought was was kind of got wrenching and just like a really good scene yeah I thought that this scene was really amazing how we got a complete arc for Raquel it started off with her having just like the best time coming coming back from the bar. She's like, you know, almost falls off the bed while she's looking for a knife and

fork and very carefree. And it ends with her like crying herself to sleep under her, uh, star projector in her room that she brought her home. But I love that. I love that as like a symbol of the age divide between them because the other girls are like older. They're like later in their 30s. Rakell's in her 20s. And it's like such a, you know, young woman in her 20s thing to have that like star projector I think so I find that really funny that they use that as like something to mock her like oh my god she has a star projector is she listening to music yeah it's Taylor Swift right yeah of course it is you know and question why is she hanging out with them if they have such an age difference how did that come together same group of group of friends so she dated James

Kennedy who prior to dating Raquel he dated Kristen Doughty who is Tom Sandoval's ex who was introduced. So it's a very like incestuous kind of group. You don't look like you're taking notes, Dan. You can play this back and take them later. And I think another part of it is too is that Raquel's story at this point is that she's trying to discover herself as she says. He's trying to get back on her feet because she just had the breakup with James. That was very recent. And she also used to do like uni pageant so she can't do it anymore because she's too old. Like she looks. really young, like 23 maybe or something. Yeah, she's a bit older than that. I think she's like more 27 or 27. I think they said it. Yeah, they said it because of the beauty badge. I just said. Yeah. No, but I mean,

she definitely is like very innocent or definitely comes off that way at least. But I think part of the reason why she wanted to go in this trip and why they encouraged her to go in this trip at first was that yeah, she's trying to like have fun and break free and make out with other people and try to get over the fact that she just had this breakup and she's feeling really miserable, obviously. And, you know, then there's the, the peritextual stuff about what we now know that she's presumably actually sleeping with Tom Sandinwell this whole time. But just based on what we see in the episode, you know, she's, she's going through a rough time and she's trying to, and she wants to have fun. And I think that's one thing that's interesting about that scene in the hotel room

is that I feel like she thought, Raquel thought she understood the assignment. in terms of like I'm going to get sloppy drunk. I'm going to make out with a stranger and then we're going to hang out in the hotel room and have laughs together. She knows these girls have done that together a bunch of times. She's known these girls for a while. She's watched the show. And even before she was on the show,

this is like a recurring thing on the show, you know, is that they follow them in with cameras after they have a night on the club and they all hang out in the same hotel bed and stuff. Raquel seems to think, I think, I know what to do with this situation. I know how to integrate myself. And then it just doesn't work.

Then everybody's just cold with her and treating her like shit. And then she's like doubly baffled because she's drunk as shit. And she thought that she was just doing what she was supposed to do. And instead everybody's like being really mean to her. And that's why I really loved it when Charlie comes down. Like you said, Greg, we finally get to see Charlie becoming more of a character. And then this season with this moment where she swoo, whoops in. And I think to her credit, because she could theoretically, like, take the side of the

three established girls and insinuate herself with them and said she instantly, like, instinctively sees that Raquel, who's presumably closer to her in age, like, Charlie seems pretty young. She instantly sees her as, like, this mouse in a cage with three cats, like, cowering in a corner as they take shots at her and instinctively takes her side and is actually able to, like, articulate comebacks and stuff against Lala, which Rakel is just not able to do because Rakel's just not good in those situations. Like she's not very articulated the best of times. And you can see when she's being like attacked by Lala, she could barely string up through words

together, Raquel. Like she just struggles in those situations. So Charlie comes in as like her defender and her like representative of the younger age cohort, which like we get a little moment where they're going to go sleep in the room together. And Rekyll's like, I've got my star projector. And Charlie's like, yes, bring it. Let's go. So I love that callback to the Star Projector and her validating her, like, choices instead of shitting on her for it.

I thought that was really interesting. And to see Charlie embody that role, like, it gives her a little more character. Even though, like, she was obviously, like, feeling, like, kind of weird and frantic and awkward about it. She, like, picked aside right away and, like, basically propped Raquel up. Like, even when Raquel says those parting words and takes, like, a dig at Lala, you can almost tell that Charlie like told her what to say. It was like, this is what you're going to do to take a party shot.

She would not be able to do that her own, presumably, because she says, like, not good at those things. Raquel would like, wilt under pressure. Charlie's just like, take a shot and then be like, you're a B. Yeah.

And I think we see like, I feel like Charlie often comes across as a really like natural character on screen. And we actually see some moments where I feel she kind of came across almost unnatural for the sake of pumping up Raquel where she's like, oh yeah, I love that. That was so funny at the dinner. She was like, oh, yeah, I love seeing people squirm.

You did such a great job. And then again, doing that when they like make the decision to leave the rental. She's like, oh, that was so great. You did like such a good job. And it comes across as kind of stiff, but you can tell like she's not, it's because she's not doing that for the camera sake. She's not doing it for the audience. she's doing that for Raquel.

Yeah. No, I agree. I think so. I got that vibe. Yeah, because otherwise the only person who is occasionally trying to make steps to try to make Raquel feel more comfortable is Lala, who's also the same person who's attacking her the hardest. And we get that duality of Lala, which is one reason why I love her as a character, is that she can be like a super supportive friend and can be like really, like, really. really like ride for her friends really hard and will like really try to make people feel better when feel better about themselves, you know, tell them they look great and stuff when she knows

they need it. And she's also can be like incredibly, uh, self-centered and like can, and very good at manipulating any, uh, storyline to suit her needs. And we see both of that happening in the same episode. Like when Raquel has a panic attack in the car, Lala's the only one who's really talking to her in a way to try to get her. The other two are. just like sitting there like yeah i don't know what to do and lala's like talking you're like yeah go breathe through your nose you breathe up to your mouth oh maybe it's the other way around like her advice is wrong but you know she's she's she's trying and then she starts talking to her like you know last night you know don't worry about it you were actually like funny and cute it was cool like

everything's good like she actually makes steps to try to make rakel feel better and then she's also the one who's being the biggest bully and being such a hypocrite as you mentioned yeah with attacking rickle endlessly for insinuating the very possibility of doing something that she has done to Raquel. Yeah. That part, that's what I wrote, like, she's the president of the, it's different because it's me club. Because like, that kind of attitude is so hypocritical. It just drives me nuts.

Yeah, and she has been very hypocritical. And like even Raquel says, like, that's a textbook definition of hypocritical. And I, you know, I don't necessarily believe Raquel's ever opened a textbook, but she probably has a dictionary to check that definition, probably right before she went on air to make sure And by the way, I don't look at great. But she's right. I think it's, it was interesting to me. I feel a lot of parallels between Lala and what we see from Margaret this season on New Jersey

in terms of how she. What about parallels this one? I like it. I've just seeing lots of parallels because Lala, she, She kind of made her name and her personality being the proud mistress. Then all of a sudden it's the most offensive thing in the world to bring up that this happened six years ago. She's like picking and choosing how she is receiving and framing information in a way that's very similar to how Margaret is going to take, you know, this piece of information where Teresa was calling her a better. friend than an enemy.

It's something that she would normally, we see like Margaret using that as like a point of pride in the past, but now all of a sudden she's going to use it strategically to force this this narrative. Yeah, though I think,

I don't know if Lala was ever like necessarily proud of being a mistress because she used to deny that that her man was married for a long time or pretended she didn't know or maybe didn't know who knows like how much. I think there's a lot of maybe willful ignorance on her part, as we've discussed before, but I think, like, I agree with her to be angry about the use of the term mistress. And that's the other thing she does. Lala loves to, like,

use feminist language, too, and that you've got the same duality. Sometimes she uses it very well and makes good points. And sometimes she uses it very self-servingly. Like, I actually agree with her what she says, like, I just hate that word mistress because kind of like what I've already said about why I kind of support Raquel through the whole scandal thing is that people, automatically will attack the woman who's not in a relationship. And that's true. And instead of necessarily attacking the dude who is in the relationship, whose responsibility it actually is to not cheat on their partner.

Yeah, that's true. And so I kind of understand why Lala hates the word mistress being thrown around because it's another one of those words like home wrecker or tempterist or stuff. But then she's like... She even says like Randall never has to defend himself. It's always on me. Yeah, though he might in a court of law, hopefully. Yeah.

Oh, little Harvey. But then when she like tries to underline why Raquel's comment was so bad by saying, like, as a woman, saying that to be as a woman. And Charlie's right to say, like, who made you the spokesperson of woman? And like, Raquel's a woman. Everybody at this table is a woman. Like, what are you talking about? Like, you don't just get to use that every time you want to. claim that your injury is is like more serious than it otherwise would be.

It doesn't apply to every situation. But yeah, again, that's that's the duality of Lala. That's how she works. Yeah, I also found that very interesting. One, did you have, sorry, did you have any other highlights? One more thing to add on to what Dylan was saying. The part that I laughed though is when Raquel's like, you were a mistress. And she's like, I hate it.

would just like, don't call me a mistress. And then Raquel's like, well, you slept with a married person. Like, just. Yeah. No, I think Raquel was kind of fumbling at that point because, like, Charlie had hit the nail on the head by bring up hypocrisy. And Raquel would have been better to just drill down on that. Instead, she kind of, as she always does when she's under pressure, just kind of fumbles.

And it's like, you were a mistress. Like, no, that's, that you're not going to score the point. Try to play that one. Yeah, they, uh, uh, uh, Lala and Raquel are, are like, uh, balsamic and olive oil. Yeah, as James Kennedy says, invoking two things which famously go very well together. Yeah. I know. I thought that was hilarious. That's what most salad dressings are.

Yeah. Uh, Dylan, did you have any other highlights? Oh, surely, but I'll try not to, uh, to, uh, to take up. too much time. Let me just go through my novel full of notes. I mean, basically, I brought up most of the things I think I wanted to. Also, just the, it is enjoyable to watch these three women try to kind of figure out Raquel's deal, as Raquel is also trying to figure out her deal.

And they're kind of trying to grapple with the possibility that maybe they're, harboring a cuckoo in their nest and that maybe she's going to be capable of something more devious than you'd think, which we now know is the case using the word devious loosely. After she's been drinking, I wouldn't trust her around my man. Yeah, yeah, which I think is probably the kind of thing that's being referred to by like Andy Coem when talking about lines of dialogue that will have new resonance with what we know now. But I still am, you know, I still remain sympathetic to Raquel just because she's in such a vulnerable position and is just having a really rough time of things for whatever combination

of reasons. And that was a difficult situation to be put into for sure. You know, when you're in a vulnerable situation and you're going on a trip with people who are only tolerating you, it's probably going to end poorly. Yeah. Yeah, that I think covers the main points of, of, uh, what I liked about the episode, I guess. Yeah, I guess the only other thing that I really wanted to talk about is the decision to edit this in a way that was sympathetic to Raquel, when they could have easily, you know, they could have easily constructed this in a way that wasn't so sympathetic.

I think, like, there is a comment about how Raquel has kind of co-opted two nights of this party that's supposed to be about Katie. it's a pity pity party and i think like katy definitely has at this point the most valid beef with raquel and doesn't really chooses not to um not to get into it and in her words she's very gracious uh because she's making it clear to raquel that uh yeah that she is being gracious that she could that she's being tolerated only she's making it clear to rquel that she's only being tolerated and that she could turn the table on her at any seconds. Yeah, I just thought it was very interesting that it was so sympathetic. And I'm always wondering, you know, now watching these episodes, did production new and like how much did

like that knowledge factor into the edit and the story? And I think they were definitely hedging their bets when they cut this episode together that I think there was definitely some knowledge there because we do get so many lines and seeds of this potential underlying deviousness of Raquel that are scattered throughout this, but still painting her in a sympathetic light in case this knowledge doesn't emerge. So, you know, I think they give the, they were giving themselves the opportunity to view this season from two different perspectives. And I'm hopeful that that's a trend that's going to continue on these episodes because I think it makes it so interesting to watch.

One of the things I love about reality TV is there's very rarely true black and white, evil and good characters on it. There's people that fluctuate between a gray area. So seeing this episode that is a, largely sympathetic towards Raquel air after she has become the most hated woman on the network is really interesting to me while it's also having so much of this like underlying story pieces scattered throughout it well it looks like she's going to be the uh at least the main focus of the beginning of the next episode yeah we'll see how that plays out yeah and i

don't want to say like I do understand uh why those uh why uh Katie and uh and and and Lala and and Christina Kelly are like getting so exhausted with Raquel like I see their side of it too like even though I'm kind of riding for for Raquel in my comments because I feel bad for her like I totally get why they're just like oh my God like like you said Craig it's supposed to be about Katie this trip and she's kind of sucking the air out of her out of the room by her antics but I do think in terms of like being sympathetic in the edit to the Raquel, I'm not sure how much of a choice they necessarily have because like Raquel doesn't really go and attack people. So there's not much you can use to like paint her negatively. Like they really play up the occasional things she says that are

sort of negative and then they'll get repeated endlessly by a by Lala and Katie to attack her. But like otherwise she's like kind of just doesn't she doesn't go on the offensive enough to get a villain edit. And, you know, also she's like, when she is opening up, she's crying and talking about how she doesn't know who she is and having a panic attack. Like, how do you edit that in a way that isn't going to make her like sympathetic, you know? Dylan's got a great point there. Like, as a producer, what do you do with a character like her? She doesn't have the balls to go out and start drama with people. When people get mad at her, she kind of like withers away.

Like, how do you handle a character like that, right? You know, you can't assign traits because it's reality television. You got to roll with it. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Any final thoughts on Vanderpump Rules? I, you know, like I said, coming to do it cold, it felt like a whole lot of nothing happened. This felt like the show that Seinfeld claimed to be just people literally talking and going about their day.

It's a show that Seinfeld wishes it was. By the end, by the end, when she sat down next to Tom Schwartz. Oh, I should also mention, because we haven't mentioned him yet. I wrote, who names their baby Summer Moon? Oh, of course, it's a guy with a ponytail and monster quads. I feel like Sheena probably had more to do with that, though. His legs are like tree trunks. I mean, that guy is a dendroid.

He's like, not even the worst baby on the show, though. Not even the worst. Lala's daughter, what do you, think that Wala named her baby. Dandy lion. Very close. It's ocean. I feel like Summer Moon has more to do with Sheena because that seems like her vibe. And he's an Australia and he'd probably name it like Walla Dury or something.

He's like, I'm just happy I have a green cat and a wife. Yeah, that's kind of his vibe. She's always hanging out with these men, but that's fine with me. Oh, tag along. He seems like a pretty chill guy. Well, thank you so much, Dan, for doing this show. Do you want to let everyone know where they can find you? Oh, yeah.

You know what? If you're interested, I have a YouTube channel called Canadian Computer Collector. We're almost at 2,000 subs. And when we hit 2,000, we're giving away a Nintendo 64 wireless brawler controller for the original system. Not sure if there's a lot of crossover in, uh, Bravo reality television and opening up old computers. But if you happen to be one of those people, check me out on YouTube, Canadian computer collector.

Awesome. And Dylan, yourself? Well, as always, you can find me on my podcast about horror movies. Again, like Dan said, not so much crossover there is, but that's Mind Over Splatter. There's the name of that podcast. You can, I think you can find a link to my substack as well on the website for Bravo Outsider. Yeah, and that website is bravo outsider.com. We're also on Instagram at Bravo Outsider.

Until next week, keep it real. That's what we're saying. I'll allow it. Yeah, that's the slogan that we workshopped over the past three hours. Just keep it real.