Real Housewives of New Jersey Finale S14E12 & Orange County S18E04 Recap/Analysis
00:00Do you feel comfortable with her here?I will give her permission to stay.Okay.I feel she's digging her own grave.So tell her, I say welcome.Okay.She don't fucking bother me none.She can come back.
00:09So she doesn't bother you and you're not afraid of her again?I dress for a fucking party.You all dress for a fucking funeral.I dress for a party because I'm laughing.I do not have black on, by the way.Maybe my favorite quote was Jen Aidan saying,you all are dressed for a funeral and I dress for a fucking party.Because that is a bit of a representation of the way Jen's been going into this.
00:26Everybody around her has been kind of like this is,sober. This is tragic families members being turned against family members. What could be worse than thishorrible curse that has been laid upon us. And having man boobs. Hello and welcome to the BravoOutsider podcast. I'm your host Craig Midwinter. Dylan and I were flying tandem again today. Dylan,you're our honorary outsider once again. How's it going? That's going good. Yeah, I'mhappy we're not bothering with any useless third wheels here. Just just the prime cut. You look like you'regoing to be typing some sad manifesto. You look like you're in a Pulitzer movie. That's what you look like.Actually, you look like. I do this. Look a bit more like Ted Kaczynski. I need my old beard for that.
01:21Yeah, let's let's dive in. We've got Real Housewives of New Jersey and Real Housewives of Orange County,both fantastic episodes, but I'm wondering where you want to start. I mean,the one I want to talk about most is definitely the season finale.So we might as well just dive right into New Jersey, right?That's the big one.That's the big bomb here.Yeah, let's go.Dig your own grave.
01:40Let's get a summary.Everybody's history with everybody flashes before their eyes and before our eyes, really,as everybody prepares for the last supper, a steakhouse dinner that's,that's billed as though everybody is going to die somehow.And we get, we do get a bomb dropped as we've been waiting for all season long.We do get a bomb dropped, I guess.And I don't know about you, but it was not what I expected.I wasn't, yeah, it wasn't what I was expecting either.
02:22I think just diving into the presentation on this, I really think that they did a good job of presenting.this as a way bigger bomb than they did with with teresa's and that's like definitely by design theythey clearly wanted to undermine teresa's you know knowledge drop in order to make marges bomb have abigger impact and it worked for me i i loved it yeah oh yeah and they sold it so hard it was reallyreally funny just all the flashbacks they were just cross-cutting the flashbacks with like the walk-upsyou know, the slow-bow shots of characters crossing the tracks to get to the steakhouse.And so many flashbacks, including like, you know, the Gorgas, like the old no-no, old, no-no gorga gettingin there, like really digging back deep into history into family ties to kind of build as much
03:22import as possible for this. It was cheesy as hell. It was overblown. I was there for it.Yeah, totally.You know, great use of sepia tones of black and white.Just, and I love how it ends with just like, Dolores staring off at someunbeaten sliders on a table.As like we slowly fade into even more of those like, you know, flashbacks of everythingthat's apparently been ruined and lost now.Just with a season that had a lot of like loss hanging over it.
03:55In a lot of ways, I think people grieving relationships that have been lost and people thatbeen lost like Margaret's ex-husband, to have it all come to a head in that way,that very kind of sappy, melodramatic way was the satisfying ending that I would have hoped for.Yeah, totally. I totally agree. And I think one of the things that I really picked up on wasthe lack of resolution actually was really impactful for me. Like the fact that this group justcould not come to anything that like resolved nicely or tied up anything in a nice little bow.We knew that there was going to be no resolution to this going into it. And, you know, the way that it ended in explosions and still, still tension, I thought it was really impactful. I liked it a lot.Yeah. There is such a sense of like creeping dread hanging over everything, but like kind of not clear what the actual threat is.
04:59than just like the end of the road for everybody in some vague way.But that's what I really liked about it like thematically too was just things like the lights flickering in Rachel's house and like the omen of the like burned hotel.Like there's like these evil omens that really speak to a kind of like Catholic mystic idea.Yeah.Yeah.The dread of the uncontrollable forces in life creeping in and laying their black hands on you.The way that that was invoked throughout leading up to the Last Supper was really cool.Totally.
05:36And the way that they projected on each other as well.Like when Dolores arrives at Marges and Dolores like sages her and says,you've been at the devil's house.So I need to,I need to cleanse you.Yeah.Just beautiful stuff.Yeah.
05:51Everybody likes talking about those.Like they use terms like bad omens,last rights,last supper.They keep invoking those terms.the only person who seems to like just be like really eager to actually swim in that rather thanjust shiver and dread at it is louis because louis's the one guy who's just like like yeah mani i i am the fucking devil like he's like i hope that terrible things happen to her family
06:18whereas everybody else like there's a lot of like swearing on children there's a lot of likeyou know i swear you know children are sacred and i wouldn't want any horrible things to happenBut, and Louis's like, I hope horrible things happen.Let's go.He's like the one person who is like, I live at these deep dark ocean depths and I'm twinge the darkness.A hex upon March for three generations.Yeah, I love that.And we also saw the angel of love appear, of course.
06:53Bella, Marge's cat, really love that, you know, she made an appearance.That was, I think, one of the very first lines, if not the first line, where I'm sure,he's like, Bella, you angel of love, you don't do horrible, evil things.Speaking of quotes, what quotes stood out to you from this episode?That was one right there.I think maybe my favorite quote was Jen Aden saying, you all are dressed for a funeral,and I dress for a fucking party.Yeah.
07:24That was good, because that is kind of like a bit of a representationof the way Jen's been going into this.Everybody around her has beenkind of like, this is likesober, this is tragic.Families members being turned againstfamily members. What could be worse than thishorrible curse that has been laid upon us.
07:43And having man boobs.And Jen isout there to have fun in a waybetween like air quotes.Like, you know,she wantsthings to get messy because she wants things to get messy because she wants to be at the spotlightbecause she wants to start new fights. She wants Danielle to go off on her because she just wants
08:07that conflict to happen. I think she just wants the drama to be centered on her. I think that'skind of my read on it at the end of the day is that she's like, you know, I'll be in the spotlightif I can just get Daniel to go off of me, which is very easy to do. So I'm just going to do that.And like, she's out there playing the game, not with like scheming sinister mindset, I think,but really with a sense to have fun.And I thought that was, that was why I love that quote.And that's also why I like how the undercard fight, really, which is Danielle and Jen,which is supposed to be kind of like the warm up to the big match, where it kind of feels like
08:42every every other is expecting them to just kind of like set their beef aside so they can get to the main course.You know, so they can just be like, you know, like say, you know, apologize, whatever.And then we're going to move on to the real reason we're here.Instead, they get an undercard fight that almost overtakes the entire event, almost ends it before it starts.And that's another great example of Jen,not actually playing the same game everybody else is.And just being like, you don't know.I'm actually going to completely grab this spotlight here and make Daniel explode because I know how to make her explode.
09:13And, you know, sorry about all the other shit you've got planned.You could do that after.But I'm not just going to, I'm not just going to make this like a little brief appetizer.This is going to go all the way.Yeah, totally.I love that we got this first.Like you said, I've marked it as an undercard.It totally felt that way as we stepped into this.
09:37And Danielle opens with this speech that feels so rigid and overprepared,like she's at a student, like going for student council president or something like that.And it's just feeling a bit flat because it's so overprepared.And Jen is able to like flip this, like she's her housewife, Judah.is able to flip this and immediately get a reaction out of Danielle and turn it on its head.And like you said, I think that Jen, the way she's operating here is really telling boththrough the quote that you highlighted, but also the quote that immediately is before it, where,you know, Dolores comes in as a proxy for production, just to check to see if Jen is like,
10:20okay for Danielle to come back in and make sure she's not threatened.And, you know, because Bravo's got a lot of eyes on it.It doesn't want to be considered a hostile workplace.So they need to make sure they get on camera, Jen saying that she's not threatened.Jen realizes this and goes one step beyond that and says, no, she's digging her own grave.This is great.Bring her back out.Tell her I'm not afraid of her.
10:43And it's just, yeah, it's amazing to watch her go.She is a top tier housewife.The way that she operated through, well, through every episode, she always brings it.But here especially, I thought was fantastic.Absolutely.Yeah.What stood out to you in terms of strategy?I feel like there's not a lot of long play that's happening here.
11:03But I do think that there are some interesting decisions that are happening.I'm curious, what's it out to you?Well, in retrospect, we have that big chip, which is the fact that Jackie Judas Goldschneider met with Louis X.By the way, I don't want to be like too weird about this stuff.But does it not feel like just kind of like anti-Semitic adjacent for the Catholic woman to be like Jackie Judas Gold Schneider?It didn't register on my radar, but yeah.Just now that you pointed it out.Picking that word Judas for like one of your rare Jewish friends amidst a bunch of Catholics and then specifically using her very Jewish last name Gold Schneider.
11:54instead, you know, not just saying Judas Jackie, like specifically saying JackieJudas Gold Schneider.I'm not saying like, oh, March is an anti-Semite.I'm not saying that.But I just mean, I feel like this slightly inflected with a bit of like that classicCatholic suspicion of Jews.Anyways.Yeah.
12:14In retrospect, the strategy, the complete lack of strategy on Jackie's part is very interestingbecause she apparently had a card in her back pocket this whole time.And like she's been done with everything this season, completely fumbled it in the worst possible way.Just sat on it until like somebody else used it as a way to rob her of all stature, of all standing.Yeah, she let it turn into a bus to run herself over with.It's unbelievable.Yeah.It's just been an incredible season.
12:52for Jackie completely shootingshooting herself in the foot over and over again.It's been great.Yeah, totally.That reminds me of another great quotewas when after the bomb has dropped,Dolores is like,Jackie's shooting her pants right now.
13:06She needs a fucking diaper.Yeah.And she's walking away,kind of looking like she is shooting her pads right there.I think she might have been right.Yeah.What other highlights did you have from this episode?it really it really was mostly just highlights all the way through as you would want for a finale
13:27what was not expecting dolomite to just blow up on margaret so hard there that was kind of a coolyeah yeah deliris you know she's been she's been getting in there and you know she's got thatintensity in her i just didn't expect that moment for it to come out though i did feel like i wasthere was going to be a time where she was like really going to start throwing down a bit there butI didn't expect that that like kind of cozy meeting with her and Margaret and Jen for that to be the time when she just completely flips out over just being called a liar, I guess, which in the abstract, but the details of what she was being accused of are like seemingly very minor.But I liked how intense it got, how it ratchet it up she got there.made even better by having Jen Fessler just like trying to melt into the couch and pretending she's not there.That was fun.
14:22Yeah, you could see her in the background of some of the shots like over Marge's shoulders just like disassociating.Absolutely.Yeah.And the thinkers pose and just like completely just wondering where she went wrong to wind up in this spot in this very moment.Yeah.And also as I think we did get a.little shot of Bella in the middle of that explosion, which is really good, too. Because I, I believethere's, they insert a tiny shot of Bella in like mid Dolores going off rant with like the little
14:53kairon identifying Bella. Oh, okay. Oh, yeah, that was a dog, not a cat. I don't know why. Yeah, yeah,that's, you made me in doubt there, but Bella's a little tiny dog. Yeah. I don't know thatbreeds a little tiny thing. Oh, dog cat, croissant, crueller, who knows. One of those things.But yeah, during that scene, I just loved Dolores.And she seemed like she was actually, like, Teresa's event worked on Dolores.Like she actually, you know, had to pick a side and like dig in.But then she goes back to trying to play Switzerland again.And by the end of things, things seem relatively resolved.
15:42I don't know.I was trying to figure out what was going on with Dolores.I felt like she has like an emotional side that she is on,but she needs for the sake of, you know,resolution to be able to bridge these two sides and conduct this event.Yeah.I really like giving her the last word, though.She's been that kind of, like you mentioned,
16:02production stand in, but also kind of an audience stand in for this season,if not for a while before too.And to get with her just sitting at a table as waiters sweep up broken glass.glass and just staring at the slowly congealing meat on the plates.That was great.Did you have any other highlights from this?The scene with Nate who sucks at carving pumpkins made me wish that we've had more Nate.We just haven't had enough of him to get to know him.
16:28And I did like how sensitive he seemed when Valentino was like, you're bad at carving pumpkins.And he's like, no, I'm not.I think she said, she said, you ruined another pumpkin.And he said, I did not.Just like that little bit of like.sensitivity was something aside of him that we haven't seen much of yet.So maybe we'll see that in future seasons, hopefully.Yeah, totally.
16:53So one of the things that Bravo had said in the lead-up to this, when they announced thatthere was not going to be a reunion, was that you will understand why there's no reuniononce you watch the last episode.Do you have an answer to that question, do you think?Do you think it was clear after watching this?No.No, I don't, I don't see why it's impossible for them to sit around a table like they just did.I don't see why that couldn't happen again.
17:24I don't actually understand that.Do you?Yeah, not really.I mean, there was a little bit of a sense of like finality to this episode.The fact that it's peppered with all these flashbacks to, you know,The introductions that we get are the walk-ups that we get to the dinner at Rails,where as each housewife is walking in,we get clips from earlier seasons with them.
17:55And it's underscored with history.It does feel like they are trying to bookend this chapter of Real Housewives of New Jersey.So in one way, I can kind of see if they're saying,you know, we've got an end to New Jersey.This is it.But on the other side, we had a way better like series finale for Vanderpump Rules in the finalethat we got for Vanderpump Rules season 11.And they still did a reunion.
18:28So I don't really understand why it couldn't happen.Yeah.I mean, the way the show is put together, the way it's edited and produced, they really sellthe idea that this is a finality, that this is the last supper, that this is the end ofevery storyline. But that's just sold through editing. Like what actually happens? It's like,okay, what is actually final? We do get the implication that like, oh, Melissa and Joe have crossedthe Rubicon and are going to definitively split Teresa out of their lives. They've done that like12 times already. Like how many times have they said like, oh, this is it. We're we're cutting
19:05you out. Like, I do like that we have the little scene of Joe, like apparently givingpermission to Melissa to like do whatever you need to do and then over the kitchen table and then theyend with like like a kill screen on Joe where like goes to black and white and slowbo beforelike fading black like you like he just died in that moment. We get two kill screen moments in thisepisode. One is Joe right after he says to Melissa something like go do what you got to do or somethingand the other is when they were when they show Jackie when it's when Margaret dumps the informationabout Jackie having met with Louis X.Then we get another kill screenshot of Jackie, you know,
19:45fading to black and white.So it's great.They seem to frame it like those are the two deaths that happen.Joe's like spiritual death of losing his family for good.And Jackie's like reputation death of being completely ruined by Margaret's information,though.Totally.Who are your stars from?
20:09from this episode.Okay.I think I'll give a first start to Dolores.I'm hedging my bet on that because it's like she didn't actually do that much asidefrom blowing up on Margaret.That's kind of been my struggle with Dolores all season.It's like she's getting more implicated, but is she actually doing anything?Or is she just like a convenient character for us to attach ourselves to?
20:31But, you know, I did like her this episode.And it feels kind of like a not very satisfying pick.but you knowso I'm not I've talked myself out of itfirst start at Gen 8okay yeah there we goI think I've done that a number of times this seasonand yeah
20:51because she wasn't like following the scriptlike I said like she was off on her own thingshe has her own game planand was just likeshe's she wants things to burnshe's grinning as things burninstead of like you know rending her clothesand mourning this awful fake
21:07that God has bestowed about us.She's having fun out there.And it was just full ofgreat facial expressions throughoutthat dinner, especially as Daniellewas exploding on her. So yeah,let's give Jeddian in the first star.Let's give Dolores the second star.
21:26And let's givea third star to Margaret, I guess.You know, she did have thecard. She did have the bomb.She did have theactual reveal.the actual final reveal was hers.Yeah.
21:41The production, like you said, gave her the final wordrather than giving Teresa'sTeresa's set up with the sketchy lawyerof the final word.They treated that as the big bomb that would end things.Ed, since she got that in lastand she got that in as the season endinginformation drop.
22:03And the fact that it also seems to likemake her innocent while she makes somebody inJesus Camp guilty at the same time is like a bigcoup for her. So yeah, this wasdefinitely a coup for her. It was more of a coup for Margaretthan it was for Melissa, right? Like, what did Melissa doat the end of the day? What did Melissa do at allall this season? Yeah, right? She didn't really do
22:28anything. Yeah.Yeah.That's one thing that I'mI'm curious about before we get into my picks.So there's a lot of discussion around this idea that there's going to be a huge castJacob in New Jersey.I'm curious who you think will stay and go versus who you think should stay and go.I don't know if I'm in a position to judge who will.
22:58I just don't feel like I understand the way the sausage is made enough to like be ableto guess what choices production is actually going to make based on whatever combination theyhave of like what they think audiences respond to based on their like whatever internal metricscross-referenced with like the relationships they have with the employees and like who they'relike you know which one of these staff members they're on good terms with and think that they canwork with going forward and all that stuff like I just feel like there's too many variables that I'mjust completely ignorant of to be able to like accurately.predict.
23:36It would feel like it's going to be so volatile keeping one or the other ofTeresa and Melissa.So it would almost make more sense to take both of them out and move on with like this,like the whole,the whole tumor excised and just like be just move on with,you know, keep the newcomers, keep Danielle and Rachel.They've, I think they've earned it.You know, keep Jen.
24:03And then you could keep.Keep like, you know, Margaret can stay around as like a legacy character because you don't want to get rid of Margaret.But you could just like cut out Melissa and Joe and Teresa both and be like this is just like not going to be a focus anymore.It's not even going to be there.Like we're just going to keep the other storylines intact and build new storylines around the other cast and take out like pull out the roots of this like invasive plant that's taking, that's threatening to choke out the life of every other storyline, you know.Yeah, I agree. I think, you know, if you're going to get rid of Melissa, you're going to get rid of Teresa or vice versa. I don't see a way where they can get rid of one and not the other and they're not be just a complete uproar within the fandom.and like the fans fans of Real Housewives of New Jersey especially are just nuts about Teresaversus Melissa.
25:05I think you can just get rid of both of them and you know, that's the only way that you'regoing to be able to move forward or you keep both of them if they're willing to play ball.But it seems like that's not, it seems like that that's not an option.I think if there's anyone that needs to stay, it's Jen Aden.And second to that, I think it's Margaret.They make, aside from Teresa, I think they are the most active players and they just have a sense for it.And they're the most engaging to watch.You've got to have Daniel.
25:47You've got to keep Daniel around.It just feels like Danielle is just getting started.to me. She's just such a,um,she's just such a star. Like,she just feels so born for this and I feel like they've only begun to liketap her potential. So I feel like you got to keep Danielle around too.Yeah. I mean, I think Danielle's an easy.
26:07Yes, we,we keep Danielle. I think Rachel,I don't know if she has done enough to,you know,be kept around. I don't really have a problem with keeping her though.I think she's,I think she's fine.I think she's like a replacement level housewife.
26:27Speaking of that,do you think like the,the Fudas just kind of fizzled out here at the end of the day?Or what do you think about that?Because we do get Rachel going off on Teresa,but she already did that earlier.And it's kind of just the same thing.Like her just like calling her a bunch of names and saying that she sucks to her face.
26:45There wasn't really any fallout of that last time,even though everybody kept talking about it like there would be.And then we just get her do it again.and then they just move on from it.Like, it feels like Rachel and John were so ready to come out swinging and act like gangsters,but nothing really came of what they were doing.Like, they were just kind of there at the end of the day.Yeah, I would be interested to see what Rachel is like without Melissa and without Teresa there,
27:12because I think that that has been what has consumed her.She wants to be this extra hand for Melissa.but I think she does have like what it takes to play ball if there's you know if if those elements are removed.I think we have seen enough of her being reactive and, you know, maybe not enough of her being proactive.Like I had early in the season been expecting from her.But I do think that there is like there's a spark there.And we could keep her or we could get rid of her in order to like free up the spot if there's a another dynamic that they want to bring into New Jersey that we haven't seen.So I think it could be a 50-50 on her.
28:04In terms of my stars from this episode, Jen Aden is number one.She just the way that she kind of owned that dinner, I thought was great.and Margaret is a closed second, they both really took hold of that dinner and were the two stars of it.I am a little hesitant to award, I want to award Dolores star number three.I am a little hesitant because like you said, there still feels like there could have been a bit more.I think playing the neutral role really undermined her ability to be at like the peak performance level.But I thought what we saw from her in that scene with Marge was was really great, even if she undermined it immediately by making up with her.I love seeing the fire from her.
29:02Then when she gets fired up, that's that's great.Yeah.All right.Do you have anything else from Jersey before we move on?No.You know what, though?Talking about like how this.could move forward. I think it would be really funny if they got rid of Teresa and Melissa but kept
29:18their children as characters. I think that would be a good way to do it. Oh yeah. I could see thathappening. Yeah. I don't know if Antonia is like ready, but Gia is definitely ready to play ball. Yeah. Let'slet's move on. Before we get into Real Housewives of Orange County, I just want to take a quick moment tothank our viewers for voting for us at the podcast awards podcast awards.com. We made the list ofnominees. So I'm looking forward to see how that goes. So thank you so much. If you are a newlistener and you haven't yet subscribed, please subscribe on your podcast platform of choice or onYouTube. Do all the things that everyone asks you to do. It helps us out the same as it helps them.So be sure to like and leave a comment and all of that. Dylan, how's your week? How's the Olympics been for
30:11you haven't been able to catch a ton yet because I've been really busy with work and when I turn it onit's just always crap that I don't like it's just it's been a lot of gymnastics lately that's been on and I don'tlike gymnastics. Do you like gymnastics? I could take or leave gymnastics. Yeah. I like the ones wherethey like do like a routine and they like flip around to mat a bit. It's kind of like figure skatingwithout skates like because then it's like a performance like it's it's a dance. It's easy to it's it's got thatartistic hook to it. Whereas to me, the things where they're like, you know, pulling themselveson two rings and flipping themselves around the pommel horse, it's like, it's not artisticenough to feel like a performance, nor is it clear cut enough to feel like just the pure test of
30:53who's the strongest. Like it's too, like between the two for me. Like, yeah, you need so much context.Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's like, you know, obviously it's impressive, like just how strong they are,how much control they have.But when somebody's like trying to lift the biggest weight,it's like so clear and that's like classic Olympics shit of just being like who is theactually absolutely best in the world at doing this simple task that we could all understandhow it's done.Whereas this is kind of like a test of strength,
31:24but also being like, oh, you have to look at the angle of his wrists,but it's not like exciting to watch really.It's just, so anyways, gymnastics pass for me.I watched a bit of water polo.It was okay, but that's water polo is, it's just, you're intentionally taking the fun out of the sport by making everybody slug through water.You don't know what it's, right?It's like an inherently exciting activity that you've just like decided to slow it down.It's like if you had like soccer, but they have to play at a foot of molasses.
31:56Like, why would you do that?Why would you just make it more boring and sluggish?Okay, let's get into Orange County.Do you want to give us a summary of what was going on there?Sure.Well, you know, it's time to play sports again.Following on last week's take football match, now we have a golf tournament coming up,which is mostly a stage, I guess, for Katie to try to attack Heather.
32:18And leading up to that, we have a bit more of Gina complaining about how she's decidedto break up with Travis, but doesn't want to frame it as her deciding to break up with Travis.And Jen continuing to complain that people are being mean to her because she doesn't knowwhat money is. That's about it, I think. I do like to have another game. Like, I love it when they havea sport. And now, and we're getting treated to a lot of that. Golf is a bad sport, but I like thatthey keep score. And it's hilarious that Katie is framed as like the golf person and she sucksthat golf. That's really good. Especially how the lead up is she's like, these women just don't knowanything about golf. And she is like talking to the catererous, being like, we got to make sure we get the
33:01proper golf drinks.It'd be like,oh,can you believe these bitches are going to have toplay golf?They don't even know what they're in for.And then we see her playing.She's just terrible.
33:12And like,you know,Emily and Gina are kicking her ass.That was a really,really good punchline for me.Totally.What's it out to you in terms of the presentation of this one?You know,
33:22I've talked before about how like real estate it feels likesuch a big deal on this show.But soda's just like dressing up.And there's,you know,golf game is just another opportunity for people to wear like special themed outfits and just theidea of dressing up of playing a role of you know assuming a character that kind of like role playingthat everybody has to engage in is something that seems very just clear and on the surface in orange
33:50county um things like you know the way that jen has to like wear the right clothes that are to toto be the person that she needs to be,to be somebody who has this lifestyle,but that is also getting criticized for wearing those clotheswhen people know that she doesn't actually have money.A beautiful face that Gina makes when that,when her new friend Katie has to reveals clothes that she wants her to wear.And that like contrasted just with like the way like what Katie has to like step up to
34:26Heather and try to like show that he's on Heather's level that they can be like enemies,that they could be on like the same stage.It's just all feels like more of that kind of like role playing of like, you know,you've got to kind of assume about identity.You got to put in an outfit and then you got to play that part.And that just seems like such a part of this universe that they inhabit.So that's something that just continues to interest me about this show.Yeah, totally.
34:54One thing that I loved about the presentation of this was how it was framed as like a 24-hour cycle almost.It started off with Heather and Terry in the penthouse that they've got.We watch them have a discussion at sundown and watching the sun go down.And then it goes into like night and we see everyone in black going out on the town in the rain and everyone's like sloppy.And then we have the fallout of this the next morning where everyone is, you know, kind of hung over and dealing with with the fallout of this information that is dropped.And then into the evening when we get this golf event and the episode actually ends on another sunset.almost like we've seen a complete 24-hour period elapse.I just really enjoyed that being a slice out of their year where all this happens.
35:59The night and day cycle, I don't know, I just really like that.Yeah.It was pleasing to me.Definitely, definitely.Yeah, it's all contained within a little egg shell.And speaking of that bar they go to, that's another like kind of role-playing moment wherethey're like do coyote ugly for some reason.I like coyote ugly too.
36:20That's a good movie.Underrated film.But it's such like a staged moment and also a staged dive bar.I'm going to be pandantic about this.If you go to a bar and you ask for an espresso martini and they say, yes, you are not in a dive bar.That's just, that is ontologically not where you are.They will not make you an espresso martini at any place that is rightfully a dive bar.The only cocktails they'll make in a dive bar.
36:47are a soda and a rail liquor.Anything beyond that, you're not in a die far anymore.Sorry, you've got to set lines in the sand somewhere.Definitions have to matter.Words matter.That's not a die far, no matter how much you call it.Totally.What's it out to you in terms of quotes from this episode?
37:08Less the actual words than the way she said it.It was a great time or a moment when she says, like, oh, God, I think I'm going to tellHeather this, this exact same way you would say, like, oh, God.I think I'm going to throw up.I love that that Tamara is always dealing with information that way,where she's like so excited to share it,but has to like pretend that it's such an awful thing to share it,that she talks about it that way.
37:32That's really good.And so in terms of the actual key piece of information that Katie uses to attack Heather,I do like that the way that when she presents it,she says to Heather that this comes from,my dear friend who runs the paparazzi photos for all the publications,who runs the paparazzi photos for all the publication,all the publications.I'm not too sure about like Katie's like hot tip here.
38:02And then she's like,and it's somebody who's not even on social media.It's getting.Getty.And yeah, I feel like her receipts that she's.so confident about. It's not a very good receipt. It's like it's like two words scribbled on a napkinthat receipt. That is not a great one. I'm willing to believe that Heather is lying. The photos do seem likeyeah, like they were set up. Sure. But I just don't think that Katie has a strong enough
38:38receipt to be so confident. Like boom, proof, truth bomb right here. Like you have a text messageconversation with somebody saying, was the paparazzi called? And they reply, yes. And then you're like,this is the king of the paparazzi. This is the one who controls all paparazzi's in Los Angeles.And he's done on social media because he doesn't want you to know about him. But my dear friend,who is the paparazzi emperor, confirmed it. Like, okay, it's still just like a text messageconversation where somebody says yes, that's all it is. That's all you have.Yeah, it could be easily them saying, yes, obviously, look at these photos. They're obviouslystaged. Let's get into strategy. Do you think anything here was a strategic decision that's
39:30worth discussing? I mean, I don't know. Like, Katie's play is very obvious and it's not going to workfor her. I don't know what the hell Katie's doing. You know, we're going to have to, we're going to need to seesomething interesting about Katie pretty soon here because we're four episodes in and she's prettydull.She's feeling like meat for the grinder.Yeah.It's just someone for Heather to chew up.Yeah.
39:54I mean, I get it.It's early.But still, we've had four episodes with lots of scenes of her.And has she said a single thing that was like interesting or entertaining?I don't think she has.Like she better, she better get going here.They better like reveal something fucked up about her pretty soon.Yeah.
40:10I love that.Emily didn't want to go in and use the bathroom because she didn't want to have to like meet her husband.That was great. That was really relatable. That's a great moment. I'm going to pee in the bushes because I am just like out on the town right now and I've not met your husband and I'll have to have a conversation with him if I go indoors and that is not what I want to do right now. I will just take my pants off and piss in these bushes right now. That sounds preferable to having a conversation with your husband who looks like Michael.Douglas had falling down and is the hottest man in the world according to you, but seemsjust dull as hell.That was really relatable.Then that was a good scene.That was great.
40:51I like that moment.Yeah, I find what Katie's doing to be less strategic and more emotional.I was watching this episode and it felt like, you know, she really wants to be Heather.Like, she hates Heather because she wants to be Heather.Like, we see just the way that she is.hung up on the etiquette and, you know, trying to present herself as, you know, above everyone elsewhen it comes to all of the golf stuff.It just really seemed like she wanted to be, be Heather.
41:28Some of her mannerisms even.And it feels like that's where this comes from.In terms of strategy, I think the interesting thing to watch here for me was,was howGina reacted onthe night out to thisinformation thatKatie had given her
41:50about Heatherletting her know that she hadlike this was the piece that she was going to playand then to see that come out viaEmily at the girls night and Ginalike immediately you know she'sthe sober one there she knows likeoh I'm going to have to deal with this I have to get ahead of this
42:10so that it doesn't get back to Heather that, you know,I was talking with Katie about this and it doesn't jeopardize my position with,with Heather.I thought that was really interesting.I thought that Emily just leaking this, you know, so carelessly was,it wasn't as careless as it was made out to be.I think, like, she put that out there to the broader group,knowing that it was going to force the ball into play and that, you know,
42:44Katie was going to have to react to it.I think one of the interesting things to think about here,and I don't really know where I land here,is if that was in,the intention was to jeopardize Gina's position because it does seem like we are setting upfor a bit of a fight between,um,you know,
43:04a,an alliance of Tamara and Emily versus Gina.You know,we're getting,that prefaced a little bit when they're talking about, you know, the comment that Gina made aboutTamara stealing her best friend. And so it could be that this is a way to force a bit of a riftbetween Emily and Gina or create some space or a battle line. I'm not sure whether that's theintention or if it was just Emily, you know, being lubricated, wanting to put the ball in play for
43:38for Katie and forcing her to react and just indirectly jeopardizing Gina.I'm curious what your thoughts are there.Yeah, I don't know.Yeah, honestly, I'm just not sure.I'm just not sure.I don't know.I never know what Emily's doing in terms of like I can have a hard time telling whetherEmily actually cares about anything or if she just wants to get drunk.
44:09and make snide carmonds to people.I don't know if I have a hard time figuring out if Emily is really strategizing or if she'sjust like clocking into work when she's doing these scenes.But maybe that's just me who's struggling to read her.Yeah.Okay, let's get into our highlights.Any highlights for you here?Highlights or low lights?
44:30I like the scene with Jen.I like that she cracks a little bit.We get a bit of emotion from her.and I think we need us to see a little bit more of that,even though, like I said before,I think that the fact that Jen is so indecipherableand doesn't let anything seemingly touch her,you know, including her bills,
44:53is one of the things that I like about her most.So I like that.I also like the thing about going to Vegas too,we get a little shot of them at the sphere,And I don't know if you notice, but there seemed to be like some like like demons from hell going on in the sphere.Like there was like just.I was trying to figure out what that was.It was maybe it was maybe probably an ad for a show or a game or something, right?
45:19But it was just like a funny visual of like she's having these conversations where she's like, oh, I'm just like ignoring all the problems in my life.Because, you know, I'm able to do that.And I guess that's what other people don't understand is that you could just like not think about.your problems. And then we have the seat of her in Vegas where there's like,you know, hordes of screaming demons being projected on this giant orb behind her.I still think that all of Jen's problems are being carried with her every waking moment ofher life. And she manages to keep that door locked in her brain. But she's not going to beable to do that forever. And I think we're seeing like some of the cracks open in this episode.
46:04and that's interesting to me.By the way, I really want to see that the orb in Las Vegas.I've never seriously wanted to visit Las Vegas until they opened that orb.And now I'm like, that, that's cool.That's the kind of thing that more cities should be doing.Just wacky stuff.Wacky stuff.Everything like that you see inside and out of it,
46:30like all the clips that you see of like people taking it shows there.I don't know.looks amazing. I want to go as well. I'm with you on that. Yeah. I'm pro-orb. I'm pro-orb.I'm pro-orb too. Yeah. This is a pro-orb podcast. Any other highlights for Orange County from you?No, I think that's, yeah, that's bad for me, I think. Okay. Big glaring omission. I don't know if that'sintentional or not, but, uh, Vicki. Vicki. Yeah, right. Okay. Yeah, that's true. We have Vicky coming backmaking odd noises as usual.Always good to
47:07see. I'm justhappy that she's back. We sawher seeminglygearing up for some sort offight with Tamara.I'm here for it.I don't know why she isn't a full-time cast member.I want to see her back. I think it was such a huge mistake
47:28to get rid of her. Yeah, I'm gladthat she's back. That's justthat's my highlight.that's it. That's the highlight. Yeah, it does kind of feel like Shannon's like calling in herreinforcements and being like, you know, if Tamara wants to go to war with me, well, guess what,Vicki's on my side, not yours. So that's promising for the rest of the season. Yeah, I thoughtthat Vicky had a great quote too. It's like she's got a describing camera. She's got a black heart andvinegar running through her veins. Just really a badass way to describe someone. Yeah. Those are just
48:04lyrics from the Grinch song, I think.Okay, let's get ourstars here. Who are your stars?You know, I'll give a first start of Katie.She's boring, but she'sbut Ifind that about her funny. I find herlike going to attack Heather
48:22and then like justnot really doing anything. Being kind offunny, I love that she's throwing a golf eventand making her whole, the only thing we knowabout her be golf and not beinggood at golf. So whatever. Let's get,Let's give Katie our first star.It's a drinking and driving event.
48:37And you know what?That's the other thing.Why would you back off from that?It's funny to call it drinking and driving.Stick to your guns.Do it.As soon as somebody goes like,ooh,
48:47I don't know about that.Just like,oh,never mind,never mind.No,no,no.
48:50You should have had that.You should have had those like neon letters in like the fake bushes.Yeah,totally.And driving,greeting Shannon when she arrives.That would have been funny.You should have leaned into that and not backed off of it.
49:03Chip and Sip is a pretty good name too.I thought that that was like a pretty good recovery.Yeah, that's true.That's true.Yeah.I'll give a second start to,hmm, who did I?Let's give a second start to Vicky.
49:21You're right.It was an omission not to mention Vicki in the highlights.Yeah, even if she only has three or four lines,there's got to be like two or three of those lines that are going to be really funny.Oh, you know what?I didn't mention.when we have Jen and Ryan,I didn't really mention Ryan,
49:35because we get some more of that great Ryan weirdness too.What are naked French fries?What does that mean?Does he just mean they're going to get naked and eat French fries?Yeah, I think so.He just wants to make everything sexual, I think.Like, he's that kind of guy where his go-to joke is to make something sexual.And he doesn't have a sense of humor otherwise.
49:59he's so stoked about the evening because he says yeah naked french fides a bathtub and a diet coke i thinka ride is just like an eight-year-old i think that's actually his personality he is just a child in anadult's body and he yeah and it's just like that's why his drink order is like coconutflavored rum and diet Pepsi like that's that is what a child would order in a steakhouseif they could drink.And naked French fries.What a weird thing to say.So yeah, he's a star too.
50:36Let's give a start a ride.All right.Anyone else?Was that three?Was that two?I think that makes three.I slipped with you in there.Katie was your number one.
50:44She's so boring.I forgot.You already forgot.See?Yeah.And a fourth star to the cast of Coyote Ugly.You never see Piper Pirobo around anymore.You know, what happened to her?
50:56I don't know.maybe she'll show up on one of these shows.That seems like the level of star that is, you know,right for the picking for Bravo.Yeah.Yeah, I think my number one star is going to be,I don't know.It's hard.
51:12I think it's going to be Vicky just because it's Vicky,but like finding the other stars,maybe Heather, I think,deserves a star just because we're seeing her react and do something.You know what was a great Heather moment while that you're on the subject?if I could jump in there.Yeah.When she's like riffing with Terry on their balcony and he's like, well, if I did die,
51:34you know, then you'd be sitting here with somebody else.And she right away says, who'd be taller?Yeah.Just like, just without a moment of hesitation, just like steps on his joke.That was a funny moment.Another funny moment was that Katie was like, and whoever wins the golf tournament gets like,I think it was like Prada sunglasses or something.And then Heather's like, I brought a bottle of Dom Pernion.
51:59I brought the real prize.And then leaves being like, enjoy the Dom.That was kind of like classic Heather flexing.Heather's like luxury signifiers seem very like frozen in the 90s.But it like it's clearly works so much on somebody like Katie.Like you said, like Katie wants to be that kind of person so bad.So that's why like enjoy the Dom is like a line that's going to actually actually hit with Katie.Yeah.
52:24Yeah. And then number three, I don't know. Who do we give number three to? Yeah, you know what? Maybe Katie just for having to go to bat with Heather for throwing the event. Yeah, I don't know. Anything else on Orange County before we close things out?Nah, that about covers it, I think. Awesome. Well, we're going to be back next week with Emily Rose from Who TF knows with Emily Rose.Looking forward to that episode.If you are on Instagram or TikTok, our ads are Bravo Outsider, you can find us, bravo outsider.Be sure to like and subscribe to us on YouTube.Dylan, do you want to let everyone know where they can find you?Yeah, you can find me on Substack if you want.Haven't written anything in a while, but you can read some things I've written about contemporary movies.
53:22Just look for Dylan Ferguson.It's just my name.Awesome. Well, that's it for this week. Until next week, keep on wiping.
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