Oscars Outsider - Real Housewives of New Jersey Reunion S14E14 & Orange County S18E05 Recap/Analysis

Episode Date: August 13, 2024

This week we're joined by Emily Rose of "Who TF Knows with Emily Rose" and we're diving into the latest episodes of Real Housewives of Orange County and Real Housewives of New Jersey. If you enjoyed this breakdown, don’t forget to hit the like button, comment below your favorite moment, and subscribe for more Bravo content! 🥂 About Bravo Outsider The Bravo Outsider Podcast offers an outside perspective on Bravo shows like The Real Housewives, unlike any other Bravo podcast! We focus on the artistic value of these shows while providing strategic analysis of the social game at the core of the Bravo docu-soap. We love thick literary references and diving into themes before diving into the drama! 🍸Featured Bravolebs: Real Housewives of New Jersey: Teresa Giudice, Melissa Gorga, Dolores Catania, Margaret Josephs, Jen Aydin, Danielle Cabral, Rachel Fuda, Jackie Goldschneider, Frank Catania, Gia Giudice, Joe Gorga, Milania Giudice, Luis Ruelas, Bill Ayden, Jen Fessler Real Housewives of Orange County: Tamra Judge, Heather Dubrow, Shannon Storms Beador, Gina Kirschenheiter, Emily Simpson, Jennifer Pedranti, Katie Ginella, Vicki Gunvalson, Alexis Bellino 📣 Stay Connected: Find Bravo Outsider: On your podcast platform of choice: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/bravo-outsider/ Instagram: ⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/bravooutsider TikTok: ⁠⁠https://www.tiktok.com/@bravooutsider https://www.bravooutsider.com Find Emily Rose: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/whotfknowsemilyrose/ Linktree: https://linktr.ee/EmilyAGoGo Find Dylan Ferguson: Substack: https://dylanferguson.substack.com/ 📖 Credits Music by FASSounds from Pixabay #RHONJ #RHOC #vanderpumprules #bravo #realitytv #thevalley #RealHousewives #vanderpumprules #scandoval #pumprules #rhodubai

And they said we met Gene the Machine. Oh, really? Do you still introduce yourself as Gene the Machine? Yes. I feel it was a missed opportunity when Shannon was having that meeting with her dad and was like, are you still introducing yourself as Gene the Machine? And we didn't get a throwback to the way better nickname that Kelly Dodd gave him, which was Big Dick Daddy from Cincinnati. Yes.

How did we not get a clip of that? I hear a lot about you. Big Dad. Big Dig Daddy from Cincinnati. Oh, my God. Hello and welcome to the Bravo Outsider Podcast. I'm your host Craig Midwinter, joined as always by Dylan Ferguson. And we are very excited to be joined by the host of Who TF knows with Emily Rose.

It's Emily Rose. You can stop and smell the roses, but be careful of the thorns. Nice. That's really good. That's pretty good. I was expecting maybe something about an exorcism, but you really came out of nowhere with that. Next time. Awesome.

Well, we have the real Housewives of New Jersey reunion type thing, whatever that was. We're going to talk about it. And we'll also talk about real Housewives of Orange County. Emily, I'm curious, which of these do you want to start with? Maybe let's start with New Jersey just because I'm. I'll be totally honest with you both and with your listeners. I opted out of New Jersey this season. I decided it was going to be a shit season.

So I said, I'm not going to watch this. It's completely useless. The show is boring. And I think I'm right, but I did watch the finale and the episode from last night. So let's go ahead and talk about that. Okay. Yeah, let's dive in. We usually do a brief summary of what happened.

Do you want to give us your perspective on what happened in this reunion episode? Well, sure. It was not a reunion, technically, and there was a lot of hype around it being a reunion, not having a reunion, but it was a reunion where they watched the finale episode in the same place where they held the finale episode and then commented on it, which is what they already did in the finale episode in their confessional. So, yeah. That's my summary. There's layers to this onion. It's very meta, this one. Yeah. It was, it was something. Let's talk about the present. because I think there is stuff to discuss. Normally, if we're covering a reunion, we just don't really talk about the presentation here. But this is a brand new format. And I think it deserves some commentary.

Dylan, I'm curious, what did you think about this presentation? It's interesting. It's so recursive. It does really kind of underline the feeling that the show is being made for the cast rather than for the audience. It just feels so intensely self-referential leading up to our glorious vital moment where Jed Fessler does a dumb little comedy song about the season. It just feels like such a just a hall of mirrors of like this cast and this crew just trapped in a little room together, referencing each other, inserting their own faces into clips of themselves, watching their own faces. it's it's it's really uh an odd meta experience yeah yeah it definitely is an odd meta experience

emily what what did you think about this format you know i so visually we've been told we were told before the season aired right like teresa and melissa will never be in the same room and i just i that didn't end up necessarily being true for the season from what I saw, but they certainly really hammered it in here. I actually don't mind this format as opposed to a regular reunion. It felt like the women were able to, I liked the commentary, basically. I liked them doing it that style. And Andy, you know, he asks sometimes questions that don't really get a genuine reaction from people. So I did like that and the visual separation between the two. And then you have Dolores going between the two.

Because she's, I, I didn't hate it. I just didn't know, I didn't know the purpose, I guess, this over another kind of reunion, right? Yeah. One thing I do like about this, I'll say is that because the reunion, I think you kind of understand that it's them processing the show after they've had the chance to see it. I like the idea of not giving them the space to process it and be like, yeah, you're going to discuss the show as it has. happen, but as you're watching it, you're just going to give us your live reaction to it. I like not letting them decide, like, how they're going to read and interpret it. I mean, yes, in the sense that they know they've gone through this, but they don't necessarily

know how it's been presented. So I like that immediacy. That's one thing this has going for over a traditional reunion. Sure. Yeah, I, there were, I guess, some elements that I like. I'm going to be honest, I hated this. I thought it was a complete waste of time. No, I agree, yeah.

I normally, like, could take or leave reunions, to be honest. There's, like, a reason we don't really tend to cover them that much. But I think that New Jersey often has the more interesting reunions. And the fact that we were deprived of that is a little disappointing. And also, I couldn't help but be reminded of, like, my least favorite genre of content creation, which is like the reaction videos and the yeah and it seemed like it was a 45 minute long reaction video and I just have no desire to watch that sort of thing and just overall it was really frustrating but I think Dylan you touched on something that I didn't really consider the immediacy

of responding to this I think that there is potential there I feel like it was squandered while we were watching that like I feel like there could have been a more interesting way of doing this. But yeah, it felt like it was squandered. I did like that there had to be some thought in terms of how you would engage the other side of the couch, you know, the fact that Dolores had to actually go and physically traverse the space in order to engage the other side of the room. I thought that that was pretty interesting.

But I think everything aside from that was really just more annoying than anything. The fact that people could just sit there taking their little pot shots and no one had to really respond to it. Yeah. It really felt it felt neutered to me. Yeah, the split into two different rooms definitely neutered it. You're right. Nobody gets to really respond directly to the shit that's being talked to them. But yes, I think it was kind of squandered as an opportunity to have a live reaction. But one thing that I like about the immediacy, as I was saying, is that it does let you see a little bit more about how they actually engage with the show as a product instead of just engaging with it as drama, as just storylines and strategy. Like one little moment that I really liked that felt kind of vindicating for us at our show.

Because, you know, we always like talk about like visual language, metaphors and stuff. And sometimes people are like, you're like reading too much into it. But we see a moment like when you have the train leaving the station in the show. Right away, Danielle goes, the train has left the station. And everybody's like, yep, yep, everybody agrees with her. You see the cast members themselves, understanding that as part of the language of the show, as part of the whole way that these storylines are being processed and presented. Visual metaphors are an important part of that.

And you see how the cast all is in on that. They all understand that. They're watching the show that way, too. It's not just weird nerds watching the show in terms of. of visual metaphors. The cast watches it that way too. So I liked that we get that moment and then see that that's actually true, at least for some of them. Yeah. Totally. Emily, was there any quote that stood out to you here? Can you come back to me? Can you come back to me? Yeah, for sure. Dylan, how about you? Yeah, yeah. One moment I really liked was that Jen Fessler has tried to get

Danielle to talk about her interaction with Jen Aidan and try to get her to basically show some remorse. And Danielle goes, I regret. And then Vessler says, of course. And then Daniel continues, not killing her. That was really funny. That was just, that was great. Oh, well, I think I have one. Yeah. Let's hear it. But just because it made an impact on me, I'm not, just for context, I'm not, I'm not a big Teresa person. I don't really think that she's nearly as interesting or like genuinely, I don't find her to be super intelligent. So it's hard for me to find her very interesting. Right.

But at one point when she's watching Dolores yell at Margaret and call her the Seward and all of that, like this was like a very rare genuine moment from Teresa when she says like, I've never seen you get that angry, Dolores. And that kind of gave me some insight into their relationship, which has kind of been like this weird space of like Dolores has always kind of been the media. She's been both sides. And to have that, like, genuine reaction from Teresa speaking on her relationship with Dolores in a way that wasn't, like, bogged down by stupid other bullshit from the show. It was really interesting to me.

Yeah, totally. And you brought up that we learn a lot about Dolores here. And I think another moment that stood out to me that we learned about Dolores is when she has to pick aside. Like, it's not up to Bravo to set the seating arrangement here. here at this reunion, it's up to the women to like choose which, which room they're going to be in. And, you know, Dolores ultimately decides to sit with, with Teresa. And I felt like that was really telling. And like you said, that quote really gave us some context on their relationship, or we learn more about the authenticity about that connection there. So, yeah, that's, that's

particularly notable. I think one thing that stood out to me in terms of quotes that I I really, like, was a little taken aback is that Melissa is still harping on this who's the better aunt thing, which I think she doesn't have a very strong foundation for because, you know, we have seen her take every opportunity to bring up Gia's name in every conversation that she can when Gia's not in the room. So I don't really think that she's got the higher ground. I don't think either of these women are aunt of the year. but when Melissa, you know, thinks she's sitting there, like, slaying with this comment, aunt of the year, I don't think it is hitting in the way that she feels it does.

At least it's not landing with me. I'm curious what you guys thought of this. Yeah, neither of them have any space to believe that their aunt of the year. Maybe, I mean, parent of the year might even be up, you know, for grabs as well between the two of them. Yeah. Yeah, I think Melissa, it's interesting to because the whole series has hinged. And another quote, Jen Aidan said it in, I believe it was Jen in the finale. You know, we're still hung up on sprinkle cookies, but this is off the table or whatever she was talking about.

We really come back to Melissa and Teresa every time. And a lot of the conflict in the finale didn't directly center around Teresa and Melissa. And Melissa is still trying to make it about how it's all about. But it really, that was the only point. I kind of forgot that they were even at odds until she said that. So, yeah, they're both, they could both be better ons. Yeah, totally. Let's talk strategy.

I'm curious if there's any particular insights that you guys might have about strategic decisions that happened here. Just as a result of all the finality here, I'm curious if you think that there's anything in the meta housewife game, whether it's someone that is trying to set the tone for a next season or secure a spot for next season or if it's someone trying to get like a final death blow on someone they're hoping to take out. Did anything stand out to you guys? We'll start with you, Dylan. I kind of think the finale, well, this post-finali finale finale really underscored how much

Margaret kind of won the season. Like, I just think that the optics of it of Jackie sitting right next to Teresa right after Margaret exposed Jackie is of doing exactly the same thing that Margaret was very solemnly accused of having done with a, you know, an envelope being opened by a lawyer and everything. And just having Jackie have to sit next to Teresa and Teresa have to awkwardly justify being friends with a person who did the thing that she would try to pretend was like, the most horrible thing in the world. Getting that visual in really just underscored how much Margaret got like the last laugh there, I thought. So I think the whole format just really, really kind of handed Margaret the season, I thought, and a platter at the end. Yeah, totally. How about you, Emily? Well, I mean, the whole, the whole post-finally finale finale is a strategy.

opening the episode with the call from Andy. I think he was on his radio show saying, it'll be very clear why there was no finale or why there was no reunion when you watch the finale and hitting it home again in the post finale. It's hard to distinguish between the two. But you know what I'm saying. That is all a strategy because I think ultimately

there was probably, first of all, I'm sorry to rant. So stop me if you need me to. No, go for it. Part of why I'm not watching New Jersey right now. Part of why I'm not really watching Bravo right now since Vanderpump Rules is Bravo doesn't have as good of a grasp on its audience as I think they think that they do. And a lot of the issues with New Jersey this year were because of this behind the scenes unhinged, unchecked fandom that is out here engaging with the cast and the cast is engaging with. with them and they, it,

I think that people find that or feel like Bravo is more accessible to them than like your standard celebrity. Like, maybe I'll meet Teresa Judice, but I might never meet Sabrina Carpenter. And because of that accessibility or perceived accessibility, it gives the fandom what they think is like autonomy over the show. And then it starts to expose the reality of Bravo and these production companies,

which is that there's a lot of dirty shit that's going. on on all of these shows. And they are more, I don't want to say, they're not scripted obviously, but they're pointed in a certain kind of way. And all of that's just to say that the whole not having a reunion in a way is a strategy, a solution to the problems that were going on behind the scenes. But they can't, they don't want to, you know, get out the bag too much. So they're going to give us this whatever the hell it was post finale finale. So rather than like what you're actually asking me. I would say that the whole thing is a strategy. Yeah, I'd love to get into that because I think you're right. There is a problem that Bravo is trying to address here. And, you know,

we're seeing it with this, you know, the lack of reunion, but also with how BravoCon, there's no Bravo con this year. And it does feel like there is a genie that needs to be put back in the bottle here by Bravo. And they're trying to do that because we have seen this, this fandom start to step over. the line or completely cross it in some cases because we saw this last season with Monica on Real House Boys of Salt Lake City where a fan has infiltrated the cast and really made an impact. And, you know, the last last year's BravoCon just watching people go up and really trying to get their moment of injecting themselves in the drama was like, it wasn't like fun to watch. And it's like really cringe worthy when you take a step back and you look.

at how us as a fandom are engaging with with this this art and it's not fun for me to watch Dylan I'm I'm wondering if you think that Bravo can put this genie back in the bottle or if you think there's even a problem to begin with no there's definitely a problem I think I don't engage with the stuff that happens outside the show as much as a lot of people do but by choice I try not to it but I do think that that yeah that that that there's definitely an issue with what you said Emily was right on the nose that that people in this fandom more than maybe others will feel like they have the right to cross into the world of the people they're watching and to try to erase the line and feel empowered to do so. And that's, that's

problematic. I don't think that they can totally go back from this. They have to think of new ways to work forward with the shows. And I think using, using this kind of finale recap, I called it like very self-referential, very recursive. That's, almost an overcorrection though in the sense that it feels kind of like withdrawing into their own world. Like I said, it felt at times like this was underlying that it was a show being made for the people making the show. And I think that separation between viewer and show needs to be policed. But since there is so much meta to it and you cannot, you cannot pretend that the show is just a show and not something that's engaging constantly with various other things happening. on the social media and stuff. So if you try to cut the fandom out, you're going to end up with

the cast members endlessly cannibalizing themselves and each other on and off camera. And you'll have this kind of hall of mirror situation where we have where it just feels like there's multiple layers, but all of them involving the same people trapped in the same rooms together. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. And I think like you could look at this and be like, well, it's like what's the difference between this and a reunion in terms of how it kind of handles that issue with fan interaction because you know it's not like there's a lot more interaction direct interaction between the fandom and the cast in a reunion context sure they show like tweets and viewer questions and stuff like that but also if you think about how this real houseways of new jersey season what the like the main storyline and the big like uno reversal that we got from margreens at the end with Jackie, that does involve, you know, the interaction between the cast and external elements trying to manipulate the situation by like getting intel on Louis. And I do think that, you know, making sure that they're doing this at a point where they

are able to hedge off a lot of the preparation that this cast would otherwise have for a reunion context, you don't give Margaret the opportunity to have that like, that. summit that she's being accused of having prior to the reunion. And, you know, last season, there was, like, social media drama about this, like, pizza oven, the Louis pizza oven that Margaret was going to bring to the reunion and have a moment. And it ended up getting, like, cut out or she didn't do it because it got leaked on social media or whatever happens. You don't set the stage for the fans to really, you know, have their say and also for the cast

to try to leverage the fans in the same way. because for one, they don't have the time. And for two, they're so isolated. They can't take those direct shots in the same way. So, yeah, I think that's a really interesting point. Let's talk about our highlights and low lights. Emily, what stood out to you from this episode? What sort of highlights or low lights you have?

Well, let me start with the low light. Jennifer Aiden's behavior for me during this was my low light. Just the way that she was speaking the whole time was really not, I didn't like it. I didn't like the way she was talking her. Like, I was trying to be more elevated than I am. But I couldn't, I just didn't like it. I didn't like the way she was speaking. I didn't, I didn't like her attitude. I don't actually like any of these women. I'm just going to be really, the only one I kind of like is like Melissa. Just because she's, she's all, she's always going to be just exactly what that is. And I find that kind of funny. But the rest of them are very, very like, I don't like Margaret at all. I don't like, I don't like them at all. So honestly, kind of the whole thing. was a low light for me because I was like, God, these people are hard to watch. But I will say that, I don't know if it's because of the pressure was like kind of relaxed. It was more relaxed than a regular reunion. But I thought that they all, their outfits were all really well put together. And the vibes of not having that tension with their enemies in the same room did just kind of

make it feel a little more intimate. And so I liked that. But in general, I don't really like them. Sorry. Yeah, Dylan, how about you? I don't know. The low light, I guess, is just, as I already mentioned, the fact that they were divided, it kind of, it sucked the life out of the room a little bit. It felt a little too self-congratulatory.

The highlight was Jen Fessler doing a dumb song. I like her dumb song. I've often said she comes off like a stand-up comedian. That's a very stand-of-comedian thing to do. The song was barely funny at all. It was barely a song. But it was just like, it was a very silly dumb capstone on this, this whole exercise of like everybody just reviewing and rehashing and settling in with everything that happened. I kind of like that. I also like Jen Aden sipping out of a child's little pink sippy cup the whole time. I don't know if you guys notice that, but everybody's got wine glasses and Gen Aiden has a little pink plastic sippy cup. So I like that. Yeah, I think that my low light also relates to both of yours, just the division and

Jen Aden. I really wish that I would have seen Jen Aden in the same room as Danielle. I feel like that's something where not only would it have been good to get a little bit more resolution here, but also I think that both of them are the best at their exchanging of like verbal barbs, like the fact that we missed out on. seeing them really get into it because I like both of them. There's actually a lot of people on New Jersey that I like. And Jen Aiden and Danielle, I like a lot as Housewives.

I also really like Margaret as a Housewife. I think they're really effective, maybe too effective. And maybe that's why the fan discourse around Housewives and New Jersey is just so crazy because they are so effective. Yeah. And I really would have liked to see Jen and Danielle have a little bit more. of a sparring match in this. If there's one thing that I would be looking for from a reunion,

it would be Jen versus Danielle this season. And we didn't get that. Yeah, except there would have been a literal sparring match, which is why I think they knew they couldn't do it. They would have to wheel out Danielle and like the Hannibal Lecter get up, like strapped in with a face mascot. Like, they could not make that work.

Not at this point. One other like highlight strategic piece that I thought. was interesting here was that towards the end we had like trisa was asked you know is there any room for you to move forward with margaret and she says only if she's like gets on her knees and begs but she didn't all right say no so i feel like there is like that sliver of an opening to see maybe teresa and margaret together on another season i think that teresa and margaret are really essential to the dynamic that we have. If we get rid of Teresa,

I think there's a big house of cards that falls. She is just so ingrained in so much of the story. And Margaret tried very hard to ice that out and put a stop to it this season and create an ecosystem of drama that could exist without Teresa. But I don't think she was successful. And I think that's acknowledged with these final few episodes

where Margaret has to engage directly with what Teresa is doing. She couldn't ultimately freeze her out. I think Margaret is maybe one of the smartest housewives on all of the shows. I think she's smart enough to recognize that she was unsuccessful in this and that if she wants to move forward, she's going to need to work with Teresa or take another approach here. Yeah. Well, and I want to ask you something. Dylan, I know you said that you don't really engage with the outside of it all. I am under the impression that New Jersey isn't coming back.

I'm under the impression that, oddly enough, a lot of them are not coming back except for maybe OC and I know we'll get there in a little bit because OC seems to be having a decent season for the first time and a long time. But I'm under the impression they're not bringing Jersey back. And I don't think that they're bringing a lot. I don't think that they're bringing Vanderpump rules back despite the ratings. Like, I don't think they're bringing a lot of this back. And to your point, Craig, about not having BravoCon this year, which is partly because of the Olympics, I think, but partly also because, like, I think they need, like, the major reset on these, on these franchises. Yeah, you know, I'm curious to see what happens because I don't know that Bravo can sustain itself without bringing these back in some form. Like, I think that, you know, if Vanderpump Rules is not coming back, that leaves a big hole.

I feel like that's the one that is most likely. done and like put to bed. Real Housewives of New Jersey, I think they they can do a reboot like they did with Real Housewives of New York and start over. Or I think I think Real Housewives of New Jersey is salvageable. I do. I think that it is more salvageable than, you know, Real Housewives of Atlanta. I know that they're trying to do a little bit of a shakeup reboot style thing. I'm curious as to whether or not that works. I feel like Real Housewives of Atlanta's last. season was worse than this season of Real Housewives of New Jersey. I feel like there's so much emotion in Real Housewives in New Jersey that they can bring it back.

And in some form, they'll have to make some sort of change because it isn't sustainable to have Melissa on there if she's not going to engage with Teresa. That's just my opinion. That's my opinion. And, you know, it's not like Real Housewives of Orange County is coming off of a particular. particularly great season and, you know, we're seeing it ride. I think one of the things that's really interesting about the situation that we're seeing where there seems to be so much confusion and like people are wondering, you know, what's coming back and what isn't. You would think that with the writer strike last summer that we would be seeing such a wealth of new

Bravo content because they weren't stricken. So the fact that we don't know when things are coming back and what is going to be coming back is is pretty interesting. Dylan, what are your thoughts there? I'm wondering if, and Craig, I think you know more about the industry stuff that I do. So I'm asking this as a question. Do you think that New York was a successful like proof of concept in terms of them like trying to test out the idea that you can just completely cut ties with everybody and just keep the name in the show and reboot the cast entirely from the ground up? Do you think that's like a test case and they're they're trying to see if maybe we could just do this with all our titles, just completely reboot it with a whole new cast.

And that's the easiest way, rather than having to continue to deal with these very thorny relationships that date back years and years and years, that you could just start over whatever you want and just keep the title. Was New York successful enough in this reboot season that they could take that as proof that they could go ahead and do this with other shows too? Do you think?

My thought is, yes, with an asterisk. I think, like, the fact that they are doing a season two is proof that it was a success and they brought back the whole cast. My question mark is whether or not that would be the case if Jenna Lyons were to say, I'm not coming back, which was apparently a thing that people were expecting her to say, no, I'm a one and done. I'm not coming back. I got my fill because I think she was the breakout star of that season and she already was a

star. So whether or not she carried that on her shoulders in the eyes of like executives that make that sort of decision, I don't know. For me, as a viewer, as an audience member, I did find the Real Housewives of New York reboot really compelling. I really liked it. And I think that, you know, if you think about the fact that this was an entire cast of like brand newbies to the genre having to make a case, it was a lot better than a lot of like season one. new city franchises that we see. Like, I mean, if you think about season one of Dallas or season one of Potomac, those were really not compelling at all.

And, you know, I think both of those shows by season two and onwards were a lot better. So, yeah, I do think that it was a success in my mind. Emily, what do you think? Well, it's interesting. We, I agree with you that it, that it was compelling. I would disagree about Jenna Lyons from my corners of the internet. I would say she did not perform super well. And honestly, the conversations that came out of the show tended to circle around

Bryn, Jessel, and Sye. Whether you liked them or not, they are really what drove engagement from what I saw because they were maybe polarizing like Sye, wacky maybe people like Bryn. And Jessel was really the underdog that came out on top. at the end. So I think that the three of them were breakout stars and then Jenna's choices after the show, this is just a personal pet peeve for me. She wants some some interview and then like kind of someone asked her, are you going to go to BravoCon? And she said, oh, well, I have more important things to do like twiddle my thumbs at home. And I think that that attitude is one, probably why people

thought maybe she's not coming back. But two, doesn't make a good housewife. Because I know that she's popular to other people, but I don't give a shit about who she is. I don't care what she did in the fashion industry. That's not interesting to me. So if you're going to come on a show that doesn't usually bring on established people and think that you're better than that and that you're better than your fans because the fans make the show. Now, we might be in a place now where the fans might break the show. But historically, right, historically the fans of Bravo are what made these people stars. So I don't think that Jenna's like attitude is is right for the show. But I do think people complained and complained and complained about how

terrible the reboot would be without really thinking about what kind of content we were really getting from the OG Roney before, which was kind of miserable to fucking watch. I don't want to watch old women poop their pants. Like, that's not fun, you know? And these women, they have to have time to establish their stories. Who's the white lady with the husband on the new Roney? You know what I'm talking about Erica? Is that though? No. No, not Erica. Aaron? I want to. Aaron. Aaron. Aaron. Aaron. Right. Right. Yeah. I think she's going to have an interesting story in a couple of years. I think there's something up with her and her husband. And I think that that I'm going to keep an eye on that. You know, they really have developed groundwork. They've laid groundwork for something to be interesting in a couple of years.

I think that a lot of new Bravo fans, like 2020 Bravo fans, have the benefit of having all of this, this huge catalog of material to kind of compare. it to. But like you said, Craig, these first seasons of some of these shows are like garbage, you know, but we look at them fondly now out of nostalgia. Yeah, totally. Let's talk about our stars from this episode. Do you think anyone had a breakout reunion episode here? Emily? I appreciated Danielle and I appreciated Dolores a lot. I really appreciated Danielle. At one point, she kind of shut Jen Fessler down. I think you talked about this earlier when Jen was trying to be like, I just don't like the violence and the fighting. And Danielle said, we're different people, you know?

Like, it's not always about that. And I appreciated that because I hate, I think that's kind of phony when people are like, I just like, Teresa, I can't with the fighting and the violence. And it's too much. It's like, shut the fuck up. Yeah, like this is conflict. This is like real life. And this kind of stuff happens in real life. And so I appreciated that from Danielle.

Honestly, I just loved Dolores's dress so much. And I also thought it was cool that she was able to do that going between the two groups and still kind of like keep her perspective. I found that really, really cool. Yeah, totally. How about you, Dylan? Who are your stars here? Yeah, I'll get first star to Jed Fessler. She had a weird awkward season.

She got the iciest reception of anybody too coming in. Yes. Everybody was being really cold and hard on her. But she held her own pretty good. And then she ends things off with this with her stupid little songs. So this is for you. This episode was for you, Pessler. After that, yeah, you know what?

I'll give second start of Margaret because like I said, I just thought she seemed like the most like the person who won, who just won the season. You know, Teresa says, that says, I feel vindicated after watching it. And I'm like, why? Like, I vindicated from what way? Like, I literally don't understand what you're like. It just, it did not end up well for her, I don't think. And especially having like everybody reacting to Louis' clip of being like, I hope her son suffers. It's like, oh, this just doesn't look great for you at all.

It looks really terrible for you, actually. So I don't know how she could walk away from that season thinking that it was any sort of victory for her. And I'll give a third start of Danielle because like you said, Emily, I thought she had a good show. I just like how steely she is, how like set and resolved she comes off as. It's she's always a great presence too. I just think she's got like just such strong energy and presence on screen. So it was it was a good showing from her too. Yeah, I think my stars, I think number one, I think I might have to give it to Dolores actually.

I think that, you know, we got a little bit of authenticity between her and Teresa like we discussed. But yeah, her ability to move and still play Switzerland. I thought that she showed how effective she is at that role and why she has been so successful over the past few seasons. So I think that that is going to be number one. I think it was interesting regarding how she handled the Louis comment about wanting her son to suffer, you know, creating some distance there, being aware of kind of how that's going to land with the audience and, you know, how that's just going to play.

I think obviously that's a smart move is to like distance herself. I'm curious to see how Teresa navigates if she is coming. back, you know, because Louis is presenting as even more of a liability than he he has been. So I want to see how that evolves. Yeah. And then I think Jen and Danielle are probably my other stars here. I really wish we would have seen them together. But aside from that, I think that they are just the most natural in terms of speaking off off the cuff.

Yeah, I do really, as a huge fan of Gen Aiden's facial expressions, I did really get a If we're watching her watch herself. Yes. That was a lot of fun. Okay, we're going to talk about real housewives of Orange County right away, but just want to take a brief moment to ask you all to hit that subscribe button on the podcast platform or YouTube, wherever you're watching or listening to us, that helps us out a ton. You can go to bravo outsider.com and see all of our back catalog.

We're actually going to be off for a couple weeks and be back in September. Make sure you hit subscribe so you don't forget about us. Let's dive into Real Housewives of Orange County. Emily, do you want to give us a summary of what happened on this episode? Sure. So the ladies are reconvening for a bit of a dinner with everybody after something seemingly, I didn't watch the previous episode, but something went wrong with Katie. And I guess Katie accused the DeBros of calling the park.

paparazzi on themselves. And apparently this is something that we really need to rehash again because this has already been a thing. And apparently we really care if these people that have been in Hollywood for 45 years or whatever call the paparazzi on themselves.

And that's something that we should be interested in. Meanwhile, we're learning a lot more about how Alexis is receiving information from John Jansen and how she is then spreading that information to other people to try to villainize Shannon Bador. who got a facelift from her ex and she's not super transparent about it. But yeah, and then they all go to dinner and Vicky comes. And then Tamara yells at Shannon for being an alcoholic.

Yeah, that's comprehensive. Dylan, what do you think about how this was presented? Anything stand out to you? I do like the setting for our dinner scene. I like the kind of slightly cheesy, speakeasy aesthetic where it's like a kind of crushed velvet boardroom. There's just something appealing about it as like a secret coven where like people have backroom summits. That's also like just like cheesy fake aesthetics too with like a door that you enter by a phony bookcase and stuff. I like the combination of it feeling like backroom drama while also feeling like phony comedy at the same time.

That just feels very on brand for what's happening. Yeah, totally. Emily, how about you? Yeah. Well, the aesthetic that stands out the most for me from this episode, unless I, unless I'm hallucinating, was it Emily and Shane when they went to dinner, their waiter and his mustache? He had some dally mustache for. I was, I mean, I live in Atlanta and there's like kind of like a hipster culture here. So I've seen all kinds of mullets and moustaches and facial hair.

I wouldn't expect that. No, see, I was very, let's take it back. I was taking back. And the setting just did not. It just seemed, he seemed so out of place and it was delightful. I loved it. Yeah. I love like a one shot waiter cameo.

And I love that there's just some guy working at a pizza restaurant in Orange County. who styles himself like a surrealist from the 1920s. That's really cool. Yes. It's awesome. Yes. How about quotes? Emily, any quotes stand out to you? What stood out the most to me is earliest in the episode really when Terry Dubrow is talking about the paparazzi.

And he says, I like for the paparazzi to take pictures of me. I want them to take pictures of me. In fact, if Katie knows someone that I can call to get them to take pictures of me, give me the number. I just found that hilarious on so many levels. And kind of honest, though, you know, you definitely, you work for E. Like, you know, you know who to call if you need a paparazzi. But no, I thought that was really funny. It did not strike me as honest personally for the reason you said.

Like, I feel like he would. He does know who to call. And he probably does call them. Like, it seems to be actually dishonest, like deflection being like, oh, what? Me call paparazzi. Boy. I wonder how that happens. I do believe he wants.

people to talk about him. And I do believe he wants people to take his picture. Yeah. And that sense, it's refreshing to have somebody who is like, you know, living in Hollywood or wherever their new flat is being like, yeah, yeah, of course. Of course I want media attention. What the hell do you think we're all doing here? This is our job. Totally. I feel like it was a missed opportunity when Shannon was having that meeting with her dad and was like, Are you still introducing yourself as Gene the Machine? And we didn't get a throwback to the way better nickname that Kelly Dodd gave him, which was Big Dick Daddy from Cincinnati.

Yes. How did we not get a clip of that? I hear a lot about you. Big Dad. Big Dad. Big Daddy from Cincinnati. Oh, my God. Okay.

Let's talk strategy here. What interested you from a strategic perspective, Dylan? I mean, the most entertaining strategic choice is Shannon bringing out Vicky to be her backup to counter Tamara and Alexis. That was, that paid dividends. It was just really fun to have Shannon be like, all right, if you're going to come into this lunch with Alexis, I'm going to come in with Vicky. And sort of worked, even though Vicky was not exactly the best ally in terms of being like, Shannon's not an alcoholic. like Shannon, you are allowed to have a drink. You have permission to have a drink.

Shannon is not an alcoholic, guys. She's kind of not helping her case at all. But it helped to just have like a power player by her side. Like somebody who has like more standing in authority in a weird way than like other people on the actual cast who could be her allies. I think in that sense it was a good play by Shannon. And it was it was just a good move just to goad Alexis into showing that how much of just a vessel she is for Johnny J.

And just like make Alexis go too far into being like, these are the information that he gave me. Look at this information he gave me. And everybody's like, okay, you're not beating the allegations that he's just feeding information through you right now. It's not like, it doesn't need. He doesn't want attention. Yeah, yeah.

It doesn't read as like, oh, she's riding for her man. It reads more. It's like, yeah, he's manipulating her. Emily, how about you? Anything from a strategic perspective? I mean, I was going to say literally exactly. what Dylan said. I will say this, and this is my personal opinion. That's my opinion. This is completely made up by me and a conspiracy. On my part, I just want to be very clear. I thought it was

interesting also. Emily, in her confessionals, when they're talking about their anniversary, she and Shane, and she starts to kind of plant seeds that there's like this issue with Shane and not working out. And I just, a little flag kind of raises in my head a little bit. And, every time people say stuff like that, like, oh, well, you're not really going to the gym. And it could just be like a normal thing. Like, oh, my husband had a heart attack, so he should definitely start taking care of himself. But I also just kind of thought, are we going to like, are we like paving the way for like a real Emily and Shane breakup down the road? Like, I don't know. But or like a real another marital issue. Because I just thought that was like kind of odd for her

to, the way that she was speaking about it. So that's just me though. That's just a conspiracy. could be totally innocuous, but yeah. Yeah, I feel like Emily and Shane have always had a very strange dynamic in their marriage. So I would not be shocked at all to find that there was some sort of issue because as soon as they sat down at that dinner, at least the way it was presented, they were like just taking passive aggressive shots at one another. Like Shane was immediately like, oh, I had to take care of the kids all day. And Emily's like, oh, I was at the gym and I didn't see you there.

And yeah, it just seemed like a lot of tension. And I, you know, Shane has been presented as someone that just jokes that way. But, you know, there's some truth in there. Like, you can tell that the jokes weren't funny enough for them to, like, not have a foundation in some legitimate bar or issue that he's got. On the topic of jokes, though, I feel like this one of the things that was interesting to me strategically was at the dinner scene. We had Jen and Katie kind of doing like a little bit of a jokey description of this. They were like, oh, yeah, Shannon looks really good. That's like money well spent.

Yeah. Regarding the lawsuit. And then we also saw Emily and Heather do the same thing a bit later. And I thought that, you know, making light of this and like joking and not taking this lawsuit thing seriously in the way that they did was actually a really interesting strategic decision that they made because it was a way for them to really like take Shannon's side almost without directly confronting a lot. Lexus and the fact that they're showing that they're not taking it seriously and that they're like, oh, well, Shannon looks great. It's money while spent. You know, no big deal. That's just like the territory, you know, you lose Johnny Jay. I thought it was interesting because, you know, it's really not anything that Alexis can come back at them with or, you know, and it's not like Alexis is really in a

position to play against anyone other than Shannon anyways, but I thought the ability to, you know, to take Shannon's side in a way without starting a direct conflict with someone else. I thought it was, it was interesting. Yeah, definitely. I do think that Alexis, like her decision to come in so hot at that dinner was like a little bit of a strategic misstep. The fact that she immediately came at Katie over not getting invited when we really don't see any reason why she should be invited. just because she's dating John Jansen doesn't mean that she's in this group or like a full-blown cast member. So I don't think that Katie had any obligation to invite her to this golf event.

But the fact that she immediately turned up the temperature, it really, I think, put Tamara on her heels because since she is taking Alexis's side here, she needed to like carry that momentum going forward. and, you know, she came out of the gate before Shannon had even, like, stepped into the room. And the fact that, like, we were at such a high temperature already and that Tamara had to keep this going. When Shannon came in and sat down in order to drink, Tamara immediately had to jump on her just to, like, carry this momentum forward. It came across as though Tamara was just looking for the opportunity to, like, jump on Shannon. And I think if left to her own devices, Tamara would have played that a lot differently, but she had to carry the ball that, you know, Alexis had started running and it didn't land in the way that it should have. And, you know, it didn't do Tamara any favors in this conflict. And also, just as a viewer, I think it made the pacing of that dinner feel a little bit awkward. Like, we didn't get some, like, goofy game where they pulled, like, names out of the hat and have to, like, talk. shit about that person. I would have liked to see that. But yeah, that's just a little personal

grape. Yeah. Let's talk highlights. Emily, what highlights are low lights you have? I liked Tamara at the end. I don't, I don't like her as a person. Just want to make that super duper clear or any of the three trace amegas. Okay. But I liked that she was calling out Shannon for having a drinking problem, even though the pacing was very odd. Like you said, it didn't come out organically. It didn't really seem, I think that there should have been other conversations and build up to it. But I appreciated that that's starting to just, we got to start saying that to Shannon because, babe, this has been a thing for 10 seasons now. And I appreciated Tamara kind of holding Vicky accountable and being like, hey, you're enabling her. Now, do I think that Tamara's coming from a

good place? I do not. I do not think that anything the woman does is particularly genuine. but I appreciated that as a viewer because I'm like, is somebody going to tell the woman that she has a drinking problem? Are we just going to all like sit here and just like talk shit about John Jansen? Because that's not the crux of the issue, you know? So I appreciated that. I don't think that there was any, I don't think there were any real low lights for me. I was kind of sad to see Katie like start crying about the how things went down with Gina.

and but then Gina seemed to have a pretty genuine response in realizing suddenly that, oh shit, yeah, she's not really a housewife normally. You are upset about this? Oh my God. Like, I'm sorry. I don't know. I didn't know if she, you know, I thought that was interesting to see. So that was kind of sad.

But yeah, I guess both of my things are kind of sad in a way. But I was, I was entertained, I guess. It was really interesting to me how much before she backed off a little bit like you said, but how much Gina was seemingly willing to throw Katie under the bus. Like when Katie's talking with her, Gina's like, my biggest regret is that I didn't take Heather aside more. She basically says that right there.

I agree with her. Yeah. I mean, what does Gina owe Katie anyways? Right. You know, yeah. This is a fight that Katie has picked for seemingly no reason.

She picked that to be relevant on the show. Like, she needs to do something. Yeah. Yeah. But also she, you know, is not taking into consideration any relationship that might be jeopardized by this. Like did not consider the advice that she got from Gina to like not bring this up. You know, I like, I don't think that Gina really owes Katie anything.

Well, except that they're supposed to be friends and Gina's supposed to be her connection to the friend group, right? She's supposed to be the one person that justifies the reason why Katie's there. You know, we know that Jita vouched for Jen, even though Jen doesn't understand how money works and ruined her reputation in the process. Like, it's not that foreign that Jito would consider backing somebody simply because they're a friend for no other reason. Yeah, but that's all K-Fabe, right? That's just like how she was brought in. That's like how Megan King Edmonds brought in Kelly Dodd. But, you know, I don't think that you need to really put any stock in this being a deep friendship.

You know, the conversation that we get between like Gina and Jen and Heather, right before that scene, we see that this is not like this deep rooted friendship. And to me, it never really seemed like it was. Like, sure, we got a meeting with Sutton and Katie and Gina. But even there, it did not come across as though this was like this deep rooted friendship. It looked like it was, you know, just people that had like mutual connections. The fact that we had to even bring Sutton on to further, like, boost up the credentials for this friendship speaks to the fact that there's, like, not a lot of history there. So for Gina to come on and have Katie immediately jeopardize a relationship that she has, like, built and has had so many, like, ebbs and flows with Heather, I could see how Gina, like, has a good reason to be mad at Katie. And like, I don't think that Katie has the same foundation to be mad at Gina because I don't think she owes her the support.

I mean, yeah, for sure, it's KFA, but for that same reason, you can see why Katie would expect Gina to follow that script, right? You can see why Katie would expect, she would, like, she's been served the story beat that Gina is her friend. So you could see why Katie would expect to be like, okay, I'm going to have to do something here. I'm going to go poke the bear. and then I'm going to take in the one person who's been set up as the person I can take in, the one person he's supposed to be my friend, Gina. And then Gina's like, nah, I'm going to throw you into the bus right now. You can see like he would expect that to happen.

Oh, disagree. Gina did her best to support her by telling her not to do this. Like, she said, you know, don't say this. Don't bring this up. You know, off-camera conversation, like, don't do this. This is the wrong approach. And Katie did it anyways and is so, like, like hung up on this like Instagram DM like this super flimsy piece.

And now she's getting eaten. She's, you know, she's chum in the water. And I don't think that Gina needs to tanker game in order to support Katie this like season one. Probably one and done housewife and like, you know, jeopardize her relationship with with Heather. No, but I think you could see why Katie could maybe expect her to at least ride for her a little harder. Yeah. I'm kind of, speaking of K-Faid and all that, I'm kind of bought into the idea that Gina absolutely told her that this would be like an option, a road for her to go down if she wanted to. Like, if you really want to make a name for yourself, you would do this, like, but I'm not telling you to do this.

Like, obviously. And she said it. She said, who was, I forgot who she was explaining it to. Maybe it was Heather herself. Well, I told her if she was going to come for Heather. Well, she better be ready for. And it's like, yeah. But you told her if you were going to go do it. it. You weren't like, this is a bad terrible thing to do. And I'm really good friends with Heather. And this is going to really, she's really sensitive about the paparazzi. She's going to like, you know, it's, it's, I kind of, I see both of your perspectives. But at the end of the day, I'm, I also kind of consider it like new girl hazing, you know? She's got to get thrown to the wolf, see how she comes out. And so far she is kind of giving one and done as, as Dylan said. So we'll see. So yeah, I'm curious. What do you think, Emily? Do you think that Katie can recover here? Do you think that there's possibility that she comes back? Or what do you think?

Well, I think that's going to really, how she fares for the rest of the season is going to depend on. If she gets over this paparazzi thing, she needs to never bring that up again. We saw how, with Beverly Hills, Anne-Marie Wiley, how clinging to something so, trivial, that is obviously something that your friend of Tether brought you on to. If you stick with that the whole season, you're going to look like a fool. So I think that she needs to now hopefully

invest her alliances in the actual drama that's going on, which is the lawsuit or the drunk driving or the anything that's going on in the Shannon sphere, the Alexis sphere, Tamara. If she just says, all right, well, fuck Gina essentially, and I'm going to figure out which one of these ladies I'm going to go with. Or even, she can probably, speaking of strategy, wherever Heather's landing on this, on any of this behind the scenes, is probably going to be the unpopular thing. And I think that it would benefit Katie to kind of kiss ass to Heather and wherever she stands or take the similar stance. I still don't know that that's going to make her like a housewife to keep on, you. You know, because honestly, the dynamic between these women, I didn't realize they were going to bring on someone new until like a couple weeks before it premiered. But I was ready for the dynamics of the women that were already on the show because I think that this, with bringing Alexis back in, that's really, really compelling.

Yeah. I don't know that case. I don't know that this paparazzi thing is going to do anything for her except prove that they didn't need her on the show. Yeah. One thing that came to mind while you were talking about, you know, the situation with Anne-Marie Wiley on Beverly Hills, it's interesting. Interesting that one of the conduits to Katie being on the show is Sutton because she would have like direct experience being on the other side of that and like could also have giving Katie guidance being like you need to be adaptable. You need to come with something a bit more substantial. Like, you know, she had all sorts of opportunities to like learn if she just watched, you know, the last season of Beverly Hills that her friend was on. If she just watched the last season of Orange County. which her supposed friend Gina was on and saw how this group operates with newcomers. Because we saw, you know, a Jen who was brought in under the K-FAPA of being like friends with Tamara and immediately having conflict with Tamara.

Like I think that there's there's so much like information here that Katie could have picked up on in order to hit the ground running a bit more that I don't think that this is solely on on Gina for throwing her under the bus. I feel like, you know, Katie, Katie needs to have some accountability for being a bit of a flop. Yes. Thank you. Beautifully said. All right. Any other highlights? I just really wanted to call out Shannon's little mention to having a, what did you say, a big box of Almaden Shabli in the fridge growing up or something.

And I was saying that was like a classic like 70s, 80 things thing or something. something. I just thought that was a fascinating little detail of what I, I assume was like maybe a California specific kind of thing of like, I don't know, I just love those little details that are like, you know, everybody had a box of Almond and Shabli in the fridge. It's just like so unrelatable to me. But the fact that it would be said as something that would be so relatable to her feels just like very specific and interesting. So I just had to underline that. That's also an interesting like call out for the fact that I think, it shows a little bit of the denial that she has about her alcohol problem as well, just being,

oh, yeah, yeah, we saw that there, but, you know, I never thought of it as a, as a coping mechanism. We were just a fun family. Yes. You know, the fact that she has, like, this association with, you know, being the family with the bottle in the fridge, like, you know, the always open bottle in the fridge. It just stood out to me in how she never saw it as a coping mechanism when she's clearly been using it as a coping mechanism. I wonder if she's able to even see that connection herself. Yeah. And I just got to call attention to Vicki's amazingly awkward speech at the end where

you know, where she just tells everybody how they have to be kind and, you know, as humans and as women and people of faith, we just all have to, humans need to do that. We need to be kind. And I know you all believe in Jesus Christ. And just like how, how awkward she made everybody with that that that that awful speech was was great brilliant TV but Emily did great when she was in her confessional and she was like yeah yeah Vicky champion of women who's always kind to everybody can we roll it now or you know I really appreciated appreciated that because yeah Vicki's terrible and always has been and that's kind of her whole thing so yeah hilarious one of the best at being terrible like maybe maybe the best at

being terrible and that's what I love about Vicky. Like I am so happy anytime I see her on the show because of her terribleness and how like how much of an impact she can have. And yeah, moments like that are great. You mentioned Emily's confessional and like the ability to call that out. I feel like Emily is having a great season too. Just like she is so flippantly like calling out any bullshit that she sees. I feel like she's really found a role for herself here. and she seems to like be like teflon no one is like coming back at her for anything that she says she can just like call out bullshit and you know people are more focused at like the people that they're shooting directly at they're not worried about crossfire from emily and you know she's just like telling it as as it is and i love that i love seeing her like say you know oh you you can't like say you want to be friends with shannon come with receipts that's not how any of this works

and she's like absolutely right. Like obviously this is not a reconcilatory move. And yeah, I feel like Emily's having a great season. Also like Emily's shouting out, liar, liar spanks on fire. Yes. Oh my God.

That was good. And I also, I was, because I'm like packing and cleaning and things. And so I wasn't watching the screen when Alexis was like, I have receipts. But Gina said something like,

oh, she literally has a receipt. Did she actually have? have like a literal receipt from the from the surgery. I mean, it was on her phone, but it seemed to be an actual receipt. Yeah. Amazing. See, that kind of stuff is, that's great. Yeah.

All right. Let's let's talk stars. Emily, who are your stars from this episode? Oh, I mean, Emily, for sure. And in a way, in a less positive way, um, Alexis, I would say, because the, her really bizarre, that one confessional where she was like, she called herself, Lexi or something. I was like, who the hell is Lexi? She was like, you're not going to invite me to the golf party, the party, the fun. I was like, I don't remember any of that about you at all.

I don't remember you being fun or anybody, none of that. And so in a way, I was kind of like, okay, she, she's, she's that great thing that you want in a housewife where I genuinely don't think she's aware. Like, I think she believes this about herself. And I love that. And a housewife. Again, I love when they're not aware of how miserable they're coming across. So I loved that and I loved Emily. Yeah, for sure. Totally. How about you doing? Uh, you know what? I'm giving my first star to Lexi. I think I totally agree with what you said. I was she's great TV right now. Yeah. She is, like you said earlier, she is the real, uh, best addition to the cast or re-edition to the cast and not Katie. She's like bringing her back in was, was such a good move. And she is really

funny. And like you said, her lack of self-awareness sometimes is hilarious. Sometimes just funny things come out of her mouth. Like saying, liar face better shush it. It's just such a weird childish way to. There's a little tiny moment too, which is easy to not notice. But when Emily first takes out her boudoir photo shoot, Alexis says something like, oh, was that like the boojah shoot?

Like she just completely fucks up the word, just gets it way wrong. It's just really fun having her there. Well, let's give her the first star. I'll give my second star to Vicky. Also really funny, just the dynamic up between them is just hilarious TV. Yeah. And to just round out the trilogy, I've got to give Shadden a third star because she's also really fun to watch too. And it's just, it's a very awkward, weird conflict between those women. And I'm, I'm loving every second of it.

Same. Yeah, I think that those are great stars. I feel like, again, yeah, Alexis, she is like, like she's doing probably way too much, but she has the benefit of being a friend of and not like a full-time cast member. So you got to take a different approach. You can come in like really hot because you're not, you know, expected to have the same like longevity on that season. You're not committed to like every single episode having some sort of story. So she can like come in guns of blazing and she's got that freedom to do that. I don't think she's taking as strategic as an approach as I would maybe like to see. But, you know, if I temper my expectations

by remembering the fact that she's a friend of, I think that that's fine. And maybe she's exposing camera a little bit here as well, but she doesn't owe Tamara anything either. Like, it's not like they have this long lasting friendship. This is like friendship for the season that they've got just because it's beneficial to Tamara. So I like that. I'll give a, a star to Emily, like you said, I do think that, you know, she's kind of finding herself. I love what she's doing in her confessionals and just calling, calling people out. I think that the scene that we got between her and Shane provided us with enough intrigue about their relationship to raise some, some questions. So yeah, I like that a lot. And I have to give my last star to the big dick daddy

from Cincinnati, Shannon's dad for being just like such and having such an enigmatic presence. Like he seems like a little on the reserve side and how he comes across and like a little like vacant, but he calls himself Gene the Machine and there's this like underlying socialness that we have all these questions about. And he's saying things like telling Shannon to go for the jugular on John. I just liked having them on screen and what we got added to Shannon's character from seeing him. I like that. I think that covers all of my starts. Did you guys have anything to go back on on either Orange County or New Jersey before we close us out? Just rest in peace, Bella, angel of love. Oh yeah, the angel of love. Okay. Sorry to end it on a grim note, guys. Just got to make

everybody's sad before we're up. Wow. Well, thank you so much for being on the show, Emily. Do you want to let everyone know a little bit about your podcast and where to find you? Sure. Yeah. So my podcast is called Who TF knows with Emily Rose. That's who the fuck knows with Emily Rose. I am available anywhere you find podcasts. I had been covering Vanderpump Rules and that really took it out of me to be honest with you all. So I've been on a little bit of a break. I've covered House of the Dragon and the boys a little bit, just some scripted stuff. And I am going to be working on covering another show, an e-show, an old e-show called Pretty Wild. And that will be starting in September. So I'm on a little bit of a hiatus now. And I might be diving into some more like YouTube stuff maybe. Yeah,

I don't, Bravo, and I touched on this earlier, but Bravo's been really pissing me off lately. And so I've had a hard time really enjoying the content. But I love to being on here with y'all. So thank you much and you guys can find anything else you need from me and my Instagram link tree. Yep. Awesome. Dylan, how about yourself? Yeah,

you can find me on Substack as Dylan Ferguson. If you just like this out of my voice, you can listen to some of my old podcast if you look up, uh, mind over splatter or the devil you don't. Awesome. I'm so sorry. I forgot.

Can I plug one more thing? Oh yeah. I also started on Stubstack and I wrote my first thing ever really since like college. about how the fandom affected Vanderpump rules and what we should be expecting in the future. So I wrote that. Also, everything's under who TF knows, Emily Rose. If you search that on any of the platform,

substack, any of that, you'll find it. So, yeah. Awesome. I'm Craig Midwinter. You can find us on our Bravo Outsider socials on Instagram and TikTok at Bravo Outsider. Be sure to like and subscribe to us on YouTube. That helps us out a ton. Leave us a comment on there.

We'll see it. maybe we'll reply. Like I said earlier, we are going to be taking a little bit of a break for the rest of August. Enjoying the summer, we'll be back in September. Thanks again to everyone that voted for us at podcastwards.com. We made the list of nominees.

And I forgot we had promised that we would do coverage of the season one of Vanderpump rules. So expect that coming sometime in the fall or by the end of the year. We'll get the ball rolling on that. And since we are stepping away for a little while, kind of wrapping up this season of Bravo Outsider. I wrote a little song about it. So let me just grab my guitar.

Yes. Oh, God. Yeah, I'm just not going to do that. I just wanted to see the fear on you guys' faces. That's the only reason I did that. No, I was hope. I was cold in a trade. I was really looking forward to it.

All right. Until next week or until we return, keep on wiping. Teams divided. your side and close your eyes and pray. Friendships changing some worth, same in, season 14, R-H-O-N-J.