Oscars Outsider - Real Housewives of New Jersey S14E09 & Orange County S18E01 Recap/Analysis (feat @JennyBlaze )

Episode Date: July 17, 2024

This week, Dylan and Craig are joined by  @JennyBlaze  of Bravo & Blaze! We're breaking down the Envy fashion show and Teresa's podcast event on the latest episode of Real Housewives of New Jersey (RHONJ) Then we dive into the "perfect" Real Housewives of Orange County premiere and dive into Shannon vs. Alexis If you enjoyed this breakdown, don’t forget to hit the like button, comment below your favorite moment, and subscribe for more Bravo content! 🥂 About Bravo Outsider The Bravo Outsider Podcast offers an outside perspective on Bravo shows like The Real Housewives, unlike any other Bravo podcast! We focus on the artistic value of these shows while providing strategic analysis of the social game at the core of the Bravo docu-soap. We love thick literary references and diving into themes before diving into the drama! 🍸Featured Bravolebs: Real Housewives of New Jersey: Teresa Giudice, Melissa Gorga, Dolores Catania, Margaret Josephs, Jen Aydin, Danielle Cabral, Rachel Fuda, Jackie Goldschneider, Frank Catania, Gia Giudice, Joe Gorga, Milania Giudice, Luis Ruelas, Bill Ayden, Jen Fessler Real Housewives of Orange County: Tamra Judge, Heather Dubrow, Shannon Storms Beador, Gina Kirschenheiter, Emily Simpson, Jennifer Pedranti, Katie Ginella, Vicki Gunvalson, Alexis Bellino 📣 Stay Connected: Find Jenny Blaze: IG: https://www.instagram.com/BravoAndBlaze Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/BravoAndBlaze TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@BravoAndBlaze YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/JennyBlaze Apple Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/bravo-and-blaze-with-jenny-blaze/id1605180839 Spotify Podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/74BteyVGNBbLgplvEXeVUg Find Dylan Ferguson: Substack: https://dylanferguson.substack.com/ Find Bravo Outsider: Instagram: ⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/bravooutsider TikTok: ⁠⁠https://www.tiktok.com/@bravooutsider https://www.bravooutsider.com 📖 Credits Music by FASSounds from Pixabay #RHONJ #RHOC #vanderpumprules #bravo #realitytv #thevalley #RealHousewives #vanderpumprules #scandoval #pumprules #rhodubai

Like it? There's the door, Shannon Bador. I'm not talking anymore about this. Okay, just so you know. I'm not talking about it anymore, Shannon. Take John Janssen and I think, I thank you for taking him from me, Alexis. And I'm thankful that he left you. Perfect. Hello and welcome to the Bravo Outsider Podcast. I'm your host, Craig Midwinter, joined as always by Dylan Ferguson. And today, we are very excited to be joined by one of the best content creators. within the Bravo fan ecosystem. It's Jenny Blaze of Bravo and Blaze.

I don't stir the pot. I just smoke it. Yeah, nice. Awesome. Thank you so much for doing this, Jenny. I'm very excited to have you on. We were chatting a little bit before we started rolling here, but you've got one of the best, like, YouTube channel, podcast outlets within the fan ecosystem.

I'm really excited to have you on here. Oh my gosh. Thank you. I'm so happy to be here. I love meeting you guys. And we already talked before we started recording, but I'm really happy to be here. Yeah. So we also have some great episodes to talk about. We're going to be talking about Real Housewives of New Jersey as well as the premier of Real Housewives of Orange County. Jenny, do you have one that excited you more? Where would you like to start? We could start with New Jersey because that's my least favorite. O.C. was phenomenal. All right. Yeah, let's dive into New Jersey then. Do you want to give us a brief summary of what happened from your perspective? Sure. And please keep in mind, I quit New Jersey and I just came back for this. So there's some things that I don't, like, I haven't been following very closely, but I came out just for this one. So my summary is Melissa's Envy Fashion Show takes place. Danielle's stage mom's side is coming out as her children. are asked to perform for kids bops.

Teresa's first live show for Namaste Bidges takes place where we learn that Jennifer Aden is actually boiling with anger deep down inside from her altercation with Danielle. Awesome. That is very comprehensive. I think you touched on pretty much everything there. I'm wondering, was there anything that stood out to you in terms of how this show was presented? Anything in terms of themes or just the aesthetic?

of it all? Well, I mean, are we even watching Real Housewives of New Jersey if there isn't a fashion show taking place? So seeing the envy fashion show was very like comforting for me. I'm not going to lie, I was a little disappointed that the envy fashion show was pretty tame compared to prior seasons, what we've seen in the past. But there, but there. this might be why New Jersey's future is a little bit shaky right now. You know, off-screen. Yeah. It's been a bit of a sleepy season at times.

I thought that this episode was definitely not one of the peak episodes of Real Housewives of New Jersey this season. But there were some things that I really liked. And you touched on the fashion show. And I think that that was one of the strong devices that we saw on this episode, this idea of, this idea of like of clothing and how that was used both in a strategic and narrative way like i really appreciated this how margaret used what everyone was wearing everyone who got the like team envy the team melissa jerseys and was dressed by envy the way she was able to use that to like further this divide between herself and jacky i thought that that was

really smart savvy play by margaret josephs who is one of the premier strategic minds on housewives. And we also saw that, again, there was a little bit of a callback to this idea of clothing and what it means when we see the attack between Danielle and Jen Aiden, where, you know, on her way out, when she storms out, Danielle says to Jen Aden, like, you're dressed like shit. And then Jen Aiden attacks back saying, you're dressed like a clown. Danielle's already long gone by that point.

but her, you know, just picking up on these things. She had a point. And what? Yeah. She did have a point. I think Danielle knows how to hit Jennifer where it's going to hurt. Because let's be honest, Jennifer, I think, takes a lot of pride in her appearance. She does a lot of, I don't know if you guys are on social media a lot, but she does a lot of, you know, like, what am I wearing?

My outfit of the day. I like to pair this with that. So I think that probably was a deep cut for her. Yeah, totally. Definitely struck a nerve. Really funny the way she delivered it too. I just love the way she just delivers it on her way out the door. Like, you look like shit by the way, closes the door.

Just beautiful, just dropping a little bomb and then sashet out. So great. Classic, classic. Dylan, did anything stand out to you in terms of how this was presented? Yeah. just they're in a cathedral for the for the last third of it was great a cathedral bathed in a magenta light it's a very dramatic setting uh it it really just kind of drives home this like idea of like power and loyalty and it really feels like teresa is trying to to flex her power to exercise her power and be like you're in my space now you're on you're on the space where you show loyalty and devotion to me and doesn't really work out that well because the person who's usually most of devoted to her, Jen Aiden, kind of uses it as an opportunity to split from her.

But I just thought the visuals was really powerful for that. And I love the way they talk about the ridiculous setting where like Teresa justifies it by saying, like, I was mad at God for a while, which is always just a hard thing to say. And then Jen Fessler says, if Teresa could forgive God, maybe we could all forgive each other. So I just love the idea that Teresa doesn't need forgiveness from God, but God needs forgiveness from Teresa. That's, you all see the 15-year anniversary special of Watch Robbins Live? No, I haven't watched it yet. How was it?

So Jeff Lewis was on, Teresa was on. She apparently something happened between her and Jeff Lewis and he apologized to her before they started recording. But on stage, when they were recording, she goes, tell them what you did after he was like, yeah, I apologize. She was like trying to make him just publicly be shamed by himself. That is so good. One thing I love Teresa,

I think that she just has this natural instinct for like how to use various social situations to her benefit and to like amplify her position of power. and like she's maybe not the most like long term strategy she doesn't have like a long term strategy but any situation that she finds herself in she is like has an instinct for how she can manipulate it in order to uh leverage it for her own power i i love that trait because it's so hard to combat and even someone who i think has a really strong like long game like margaret joseph has trouble kind of cornering the social situation when you've got Teresa there. Because Teresa doesn't care about setting up the pieces to like be in an optimal position for her.

She's just able to navigate whatever the board looks like. Whereas Margaret is thinking like two seasons ahead. And, you know, I, yeah, it's awesome to watch Teresa operate. I think Teresa is very scrappy. She can be put in a position, like you said, just have things thrown at her and she'll take it. And she starts throwing her elbows and fights back. And she keeps winning. I mean, I can't deny that.

I mean, the woman went to prison. She's been divorced. Yeah. Her husband was, what do they call that when you're deported? Oh, deported, yeah. Her husband was deported. She's given birth on camera. Like, I mean.

Yeah. I would have killed to see what the social dynamics in that prison that Teresa was in. Like how watching her navigate as like complex, a structure as like a prison would be fascinating, I think. I want someone in that prison to write a book about what it was like in there with her. So I have this like wild idea and I didn't think through it like to make it come into fruition. But tell me what you guys think. So we have some housewives who now have been. who have gone to jail.

They have been, have all these lawsuits and things like that. Erica Jane was maybe possibly up for, I don't know, people were saying they wanted her to go to jail. But regardless, this is not only happening in the Bravo world. This happens across the board with a lot of reality TV. What if, I mean, our prison system is already messed up, right? What if we had a sentence from judges where if it's like, like Jen Shaw, for example. She owes millions of dollars to these people that she stole from.

Her going to jail doesn't do anything for the victims. They don't get their money back. What if we film this and all proceeds go back to the victims until it's paid off? Or maybe more, I don't know. Just have like a special reality TV prison, like maybe on an island somewhere. Just your sentence to the reality TV prison island. Not like a good island, but yeah. Like they could serve their sentence and still give back because that's a part that bothers me with these people who wind up stealing money.

They, yeah, they'll go to jail. They'll get their sentence. But then these people are still victims. So that's sad. Yeah, totally. I'm a huge big brother fan. So seeing people trapped to a house and having access to that, I'm here for that 100%. I think it's a great idea.

Let's get into our quotes. Jenny, did a quote stand out to you this episode? Yeah, two quotes, actually. One, when Dolores said this group needs professional help, like, yes, Captain obvious, thank you for saying it. But the other one was when Jennifer Aden was very firm with Teresa, which was kind of surprising. She said, no, Teresa. The answer is no.

And I don't think we've ever seen someone who's a friend. of Teresa's really stand up to her in that way. And like you guys said, this was in her house, in her, her venue, in her house of Teresa. Like, that was a pretty bold moment, I feel like. And I'm interested to see how this is going to play out later because I don't remember what season was, but someone was like, Teresa will, like, someone will do something and Teresa won't react until like a day later. And the reaction comes in full force as if it just happened, even though she may have

had interactions in between. So I'm wondering if this will come back to Jennifer Aden at some point. Yeah, I'm curious about that too, because Jennifer Aden and Teresa, I think, are one of the tandums of housewives that have a dynamic that has stood through a lot of. lot. Like it is weathered a lot of storms. And for Jen to kind of test the elasticity of that, I think is one of the more fascinating things to watch this season of Real Housewives in New Jersey. Agreed. Because can Teresa even afford to lose Jen? You know, she, she, uh, she can want her retaliate against Jen if she wants to. But would that make any sense for her?

Like, uh, she, she's going to be a denise if she pushes Jen out too. So I, I really think it's kind of a power move from Jen to show the strength of her position in that moment. I feel like that's really what Jen was doing. She was really kind of flexing her muscles and showing how important she is. Yeah. And I think like under normal circumstances, I think that Teresa could afford to lose pretty much anyone. But the state of the show right now is so fragile.

I feel like this is the moment where Jen does have the ability to kind of push. push back a little bit and see what she can get out of Teresa. Like this, this relationship that Teresa and Jen have is a little bit one-sided, like, or more, it's tilted towards Teresa. Teresa gets more out of it than Jen does, I think. So to see Jen try to tip the scale a bit here, I think is really the most interesting dynamic that's happening here.

aside from my conspiracy theory surrounding what Margaret is doing, which I am just like at the board with the yarn, like, you know, putting. Okay. So I've gone into this a few times, but a lot of the conversation about the divide between Jackie and Margaret being like really confusing and why someone who has as much of a like strategic brain as Margaret who's so focused on trying to very carefully set up the chest pieces would, will. hopefully try to push someone like Jackie away. A lot of people, I don't think, are seeing what she gets out of that. Like, you would think that she's trying to gear up for war against Teresa. She wants to recruit as many people on her side as possible. I think what is happening is that she is playing a meta game. She is trying to create a ecosystem for drama that can exist without Teresa

because she sees Teresa as being like the main source of conflict on Real Housewives of New Jersey, the show can't sustain itself if they were to get rid of Teresa, which means she couldn't push Teresa out of the show because she's so essential to the show. So what she's trying to do is push away Jackie, push away Jen Bessler, bring Jen Aiden back in a little bit so that there is like enough people there with enough like complex dynamics and conflict that it could exist if Teresa were to go. And so I think that that's what she's setting up the pieces for instead of trying to set it up to go to war against Teresa.

She's trying to organize this, this freeze out and create this ecosystem of drama and really suffocate the air out of what Teresa can bring to the show. So I feel like we saw more of this with her kind of furthering this divide with with Jackie here. And getting a bit closer with Jen Aden. And it all seems to be lining up that this is more a goal of, you know, creating a show that can exist without Teresa as opposed to, you know, trying to combat Teresa on the battleground. I'm on board with that.

I support that theory. Yeah, another convert. I think that Margaret hates Louis. so much that she will do anything to try to set up a future where Teresa and Louie are not, not there. I agree with this theory. I'd love to see the red stringboard. I'll have to draw one up. I'll have to put together a video essay on this. Let's talk strategy a bit more. Jenny, what do you think was the most important strategic decision that was made during this episode? Well, like I said, with Jennifer Aden, standing up to Teresa, I think that is a big move.

I don't know if there's like really strategy put into this. I don't think she has a strategy. I think Margaret is the one who plays, you know, the long game, like you said. But I found that moment to be very profound because like we said, like we said, she hasn't really stood up to Teresa before. But also for me, I've been kind of weirded out by Jennifer Eden after the whole Danielle altercation. And I love Jennifer Eden. So it's not anything against her.

It was more like the stone cold and emotionless behavior ever since that happened is so bizarre to me. like that feels like abnormal human behavior. So for me, I'm like, I'm desperately in need of seeing Jennifer have her emotional reaction to what happened with Danielle. It seems to be delayed, but it seems to be coming out finally. And I don't know. I just need to see that. Even if Jennifer is wrong because I know people are like, Jennifer push her first. Like I don't care about that.

I'm not talking about that. I just need to see her reaction because we haven't gotten one. She was so emotionless after that. And like I feel like I'm getting chills just thinking about if I were in her shoes when Danielle threw that cup on her, like at a party on camera. And then she stayed. And she's like, I'm fine. I'm really fine. Like that was, that's bizarre to me.

Yeah. Totally. I think that her lack of emotional response to this is sending Danielle for even more of a tailspin. Like the fact that, you know, she wasn't really able to directly provoke Jen until she stormed out backstage at the Namaste bitches event. I think that that is making it even harder for Danielle to know, like, what to do in this situation. like she doesn't have anything to grasp on to and she can't further this. And I think that's like making it really challenging for her. And I wonder if this is, you know, like you said, if this is strategy from Jen Aden or if it's just her having a delayed response. Yeah.

And you can see that Danielle is still trying to provoke Jennifer Aiden to try to get a response. So yeah, I didn't even think of that until you just said it. but Danielle seems to be really bothered that she, that Jennifer Aiden hasn't had a response. She even had in her confessional just going off on what she would do to Jennifer Aiden. Like, okay. She's mad. Yeah.

Yeah. And I think like Jen Aiden is still poking the bear. Like we saw her recapping this fight to some random girl directly within earshot of Danielle during, during this. And so she is poking the bear, but she's not doing it directly. She's not doing it in a way that will give Danielle any more fuel because she does have people that are on her side in this conflict. Like she doesn't want to potentially isolate Jen Fessler, for example, who is really riding for her in the wake of this conflict. So I think her just kind of recapping things, that doesn't give Danielle any ammunition to, you know, turn, flip any pieces in her favor. Yeah, makes sense.

She's probably scared she's going to get another drink thrown out. Yeah, totally. Dylan, did anything stand out to you in terms of strategic decisions here? It's the same thing, really. I'm also fascinated by Jen Aden's reaction. I do think she is intentionally poking the bear, and she picked a serious bear to poke. And I think that's part of the reason why she's trying to be very cool and calculated

as much as she can because she knows that Danielle's weakness is that she is such an emotional person. and I think she wants to use Daniel's emotions against her. And I think that's why we see her doing things like, like you said, Craig, recapping what happened in a way that's very disparaging to Danielle is when she knows Daniel is right behind her, just trying to make her as annoyed as possible. And I'm sure she was in shock after she got the cup smashed on her head or whatever. But I think she was expecting some kind of physical reaction. She wanted it.

She wanted that, she wanted Danielle to lose her cool. and she wants her to continue to lose her cool. And I think that's part of her strategy. So I think she's intentionally trying to be unemotional, trying to be calm because she knows that that'll annoy Danielle and that'll make the contrast between her and Daniel that much stronger because Daniel is not going to ever be cool and calculated. She's always going to be hot.

She's always going to have those emotions really close to the surface because that's the kind of person she is. And you know what? I think it's funny. I think it's kind of a funny dynamic she's got going. It's kind of dangerous for her. Like she is, she is dealing with somebody who could get very intense very quickly.

But it's ballsy. It's a ballsy strategy. She's an adrenaline junkie. She probably likes the rush. Let's get into our highlights. Jenny, any, any highlights from this episode for you? I don't know if this is like a highlight, but I'm sorry, but Jackie is just so pathetic.

Awful. It's embarrassing. She's been so embarrassing this season. She always has been, but like, girl, you're not even on the show anymore and you're complaining that you didn't get a free dress before. Or like, come on. I know it's not about like getting a free dress, but there's so much more behind it. It's like wearing a jersey. and Melissa Gorga jersey,

but the way she made a big stink about it was very embarrassing. I'd be like, oh, I'm left out. Okay, I'll just sit here and smile. I wouldn't be like, why aren't you picking me? It's very pick me. It's very thirsty. Yeah, totally.

Not attractive. She has never been immune to the like kind of pick me attitude, though. I feel like she's just got a history of, you know, know, really needing to feel included. And that's one of the things I think that makes her an interesting, like, friend of. I think it makes her a much more interesting friend of than it did as a host wife. Like, I didn't really like her when she was a full-blown cast member. Just the energy behind the conflicts that she had just didn't really work for me.

But as kind of this side character that shows up and is, like, really emotionally reacting to the situations. and like really wants to be a part of things more. I appreciate seeing that. I think it's, like you said, it's embarrassing. It's cringy. And like the main thing about reality TV that I love is that it makes me feel like such a variety of emotions. So to viscerally feel secondhand embarrassment on her behalf is something that really adds to the texture of the show. Yeah, I'm enjoying it.

Dylan, how about you? What highlights do you have? I really like Frankie saying Costa Rica like Costa Rico. I just thought that was cute. But yeah, I mean, mostly the last third was what interested me the most. I was pretty intrigued by Dolores and Marge meeting, not necessarily because of anything they said, but because it had so much the feel of like a summit to me. It felt like two like ambassadors meeting in like a resort town in Switzerland and like just being like as important people.

let's calmly discuss the issues. So I thought that was just a fun contrast to the other things going on. And it just really seemed to underline that there are like power players in the game that aren't necessarily getting their hands as dirty as other people are, but are like working behind the scenes to hash out the issues. Yeah, totally. I think we covered most of my highlights. There was another little quote that stood out to me was when Margaret was talking

about the diagnosis with Joe, which I think is this storyline, we've talked about adding a lot of emotional texture to Marge's story. Like, we have not got a lot of that over her, you know, journey as a housewife. We've seen her as a strategic player who, you know, trades in, in petty bullshit and information. And for her to say in this scene, like, the petty bullshit means nothing, which is something that is so core to how she operates as a as a housewife really underscores the emotional texture of this story and, you know, the heartache that her and Joe are feeling. So I really love this. I think we're seeing a new side to Margaret. I think Margaret is someone who has a lot of fans, but is not, you know, necessarily considered a fan favorite. And I think adding this, this element really rounds. her out as a housewife. And I'm just really, really enjoying seeing this play out. And I appreciate, you know, the vulnerability on the part of, you know, Joe Benino, who is someone who we haven't really seen the emotional side of for him to have the vulnerability to open up and kind of share

this with the audience. I just really appreciate that a lot. But do you think that is his choice? I'm honest, Margaret kind of tells him what to do with everything. Yeah, I feel like there is some choice there, but you're right, it could be a matter of Margaret really dictating that this needs to be out there. Yeah, I think that the way that it's been produced and the way this story has been told has been really good just on the like from the perspective of production um the way that they are balancing this storyline against the death of jan that we saw at the beginning of this this season i think that that is really helping you know paint that or give this a lot more emotional depth because

we have seen so many raw emotions that are associated with with jan and and margaret like that's where we've had more emotional texture in that dynamic than we have maybe seen between Margaret and Joe. So, yeah, I think just from a storytelling perspective, I really love it. And, you know, I think we've talked about the men on Real Housewives of New Jersey just being more open to the experience of being on Housewives versus other, like, husbands on other franchises. In a lot of cases, like John Jansen is one that comes to mind where he really tries to position himself as being above the drama and not seeking out the camera.

And Johnny Jay. Yeah. Almost being embarrassed of being on these shows. Oh, yeah. He's so embarrassed. Yeah. But he plays it off like that. And we see that from a lot of husbands. I can't remember Leanne Locken's husband's name.

but he also carried himself in a way where he thought that he was above that. And if you look at the preview on his like his cameos, he always is like giving an eye roll whenever he mentions Real Housewives of Dallas. I will, Rich Emberland from Dallas-Watt, Live PD and of course, Real Housewives of Dallas. And I think that that comes to something that we were talking about before we started rolling, just the way that Real Housewives as like kind of gender-coded content gets looked down upon by a lot of men.

And I think that the husbands on New Jersey are maybe the best example of men who do embrace that they are on this show. And we've talked about like not only does that add emotional depth and like we'd love to see it, but on New Jersey it's created like a secondary like social playing field for them to operate and then add nuance to all the dynamics here. So I do think that there is something. kind of within the fabric of Real Housewives of New Jersey that onboards men into this experience in a way that kind of opens them up to it

that we don't see on other franchises. So I think that there could be a little bit of Margaret kind of pushing this out there and being like, we need to make this a storyline. But I also think that that's part of what makes New Jersey a unique franchise is the fact that the men are open to this. experience and sharing a bit more. So is it true that the husbands on Jersey are the only ones who get paid? I don't know. I'm not familiar. I wouldn't be shocked. Yeah. I wouldn't be shocked either because I get a lot of screen time. Yeah. I think, I mean, I heard this. I don't know if it's true.

And the only reason I think about that is because obviously money can drive different behaviors. And going back to what you said about Leanne Lachin's husband, did you say he's on cameo? He was a couple years ago for sure, yeah. Okay, that is very telling to me. Why is he on cameo unless it's for his time on Real Housewives of Dallas? Or it's Dallas, right? Dallas, yeah. It would be so hypocritical to pretend you're embarrassed about being on reality TV when you're on doing cameo.

When you first said that, I'm like, wait, did he mean cameos like on the show? But then you're talking about real cameos that people pay for just for him to do a customized message for them. Okay. I just wanted to be clear about that. So to his credit, or maybe not to his credit, but to add some context, I think he was on another reality show about like SWAT teams or something like that. So it could be like, I think his claim to fame is definitely more from being on Real Housewives of Dallas. But the fact that he still needs to put up this like hyper masculine appearance for the people that are maybe searching him out from his time on this like SWAT team show is part of it. I don't know.

That's even more cringy because that means he's hanging on to this other reality show. And looking down on the real house size, that's insane. That's embarrassing. Yeah, definitely not the most, like, secure in his masculinity of anyone that we've seen seen on here. I think we talked about most of my highlights. Let's get into our stars. We'll start with you, Jenny. Who are your stars from this episode?

When you say stars, you mean, like, standout character kind of person? Yeah, stand-up. character or anything else that you might want to like attribute a star to. Okay, so I don't know his name, but Danielle's husband, I want to give him a shout out because I loved everything he was saying, I don't know if this is real or if it's for the cameras, but I want to believe the best in humanity and in straight men and husbands. So to hear him say that, you know, he, even though Danielle and her father are going through something, he wants to be there to bridge, you know, be the bridge between them when that relationship does come back together.

And the way he says it, I mean, granted, we don't know if they will come back together someday, but just the way he says it, he says it in a way that's, like, definite and it's going to happen. And I feel like that's the kind of energy a wife needs from our husband. husband in these types of situations. So I just loved it. It warmed my heart. Yeah, we definitely haven't seen a ton of Nate yet, but he does come off as very supportive and very unconditionally supportive.

I'm nursing a secret theory mostly based on the shots after Danielle attacked Jen, that he's secretly kind of Lady Macbething, Danielle. But I think he comes off great on camera. I agree. He comes off as very supportive towards her. Yeah, I think that this conversation is, really great. I like that. He also doesn't deny his own personal stake in the relationship with Danielle's father, but ultimately is putting Danielle first. So I think, yeah, that is a great

thing to see for sure. Yeah, because that's not an easy thing to navigate, too. You know, being friends with your wife's estranged father. That's very complex. I think that harder part is the kids, right? Because you want to keep everyone, you can't just cut off their grandfather. So I think for the kids' best interest, he's putting them first as well and making it about the family versus like taking sides. And I think also he mentioned that since his father died, he's really like come to see Danielle's father as a father figure. So I imagine that adds a lot of nuance the situation as well. Yeah, again, I think this is another example of just the men on New Jersey being more open to sharing their emotions on this show than we see on other franchises. I just want to know how much they're getting paid.

Yeah. Like, are they getting this, they're not getting the same amount as the housewives. Yeah, I would imagine, no. I could see, like, Joe Gold. Jokka getting paid more than, you know, a housewife on another franchise or something like that. Oh my God, imagine if Louis got paid more than Gorka. Yeah. That would be a whole set of side drama.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Totally. Oh, my gosh. Dylan, who are your stars? First star, Jen Aidan. I love every face she makes inside the church. every time

Daniel is walking past or anybody's just talking about the situation she's always making faces that I find hilarious she's just very very funny to me I also like that she's the only one who's like who's kind of dragging the envy fashion show and being like so these are things that

you didn't design right like no but like nothing is actually designed by you I love that too also being the only one who's dusting off the immediately buried Melissa cheated with a model way where. So for her willingness to continue to stir shit, to continue to be funny.

And continue to like hog the spotlight too by like picking this moment to make this public schism with Teresa a great episode from her for me, honestly. Yeah. So that's the number one. And number two is going to have to be Danielle. telling Jen she looks like shit was just really funny. Just the way she did it,

leaving the room was just really funny. And like her clown dress, like her werewolf face. And might as well give a third star to Teresa because this is her event from one podcaster to another, you know, support our brothers and sisters in the industry. I'm not sure if God's okay with you putting a namaste on one of his churches. But I mean, it's, yeah, he doesn't have to forgive you. You have to forgive him.

So that's his problem. Oh my gosh, that's good. Yeah, I agree with most of your picks. Jen Aiden, number one, like you said, just her going to Melissa's fashion show and making snarky comments to the girl sitting next door. I love that. Yeah, and her willingness to operate on both sides of things. I think that my second star like you is going to be Danielle,

just continuing to emotionally respond to everything. And my third star, I'm going to actually give to Margaret. I think that she's working really hard here and want to just call that out. Like you said, we had that summit between Margaret and Dolores. and then we also saw her like trying to make some progress with Jen here. Just really appreciating her always working so hard. She's like Jen Aiden, like there's, she never quit. So I appreciate that because I think without both Jen and Margaret,

we wouldn't have a season this season because Melissa and honestly, Teresa is also not really giving us a lot to work with here. Do you guys have anything else on? hostwise of New Jersey before we get into Orange County. I'm ready to move on. Awesome. Yeah, before we get into it, I just want to ask our viewers to take the opportunity to hit the subscribe button if you're watching on YouTube or on your podcast platform of choice.

That really helps us hold a ton. Leave us a comment with any thoughts on things you think that we missed or any bad takes that we have that also helps us hold a ton. If you align with our vision of elevating this idea that Housewives is artistically valuable and has so much to give, I would like you to help us bring that platform to a wider audience. You can share our stuff on socials. We're also eligible for a podcast award at podcastawards.com. If you go there, vote for us in TV and film categories in people's choice. We need the votes in order to get on the slate of nominees.

So you've got until the end of the month to do that. That would help us out a bunch. Let's dive into Real Housewives of Orange County. Jenny, do you want to give us a summary of what happened on this episode? Sure. Okay. So Jesus Jugs tries to make Johnny J. happen, but it's not Shannon Storms Bador who winds up storming out the door. it's Jesus Jugs, who seems like she snorted five-hour energy shots up her nose before every scene,

talking about her man. She won't shut up about him, and it can't be any more transparent how awful this couple is. Therefore, I will be dedicating season 18 to taking down John Janssen. Perfect summary. Nailed it. I love it. We've got a new Dirty John on the scene. I love it.

he's awful awful it's just so funny how she keeps trying to like build him out being like this is the greatest

dude ever he's perfect and everybody watch he's like we know him we've seen it we know who he is you're not

you're not fooling anyone he's got to come out in like one of the like grochow marks masks or whatever the glasses and and mustache

I'm Johnny J oh Mark Let's talk about how this was presented, Jenny. Any standouts in terms of the presentation of this episode? Oh, my gosh. This episode was so good. It's probably one of the best Housewives episodes from any franchise in a long time. And I think they're the production, how they did it with the editing of Shannon Storms,

Bador coming out of the car at the, end going to the event alone being the last one to arrive. I mean, she looked amazing. My perspective going in, like I've always loved Shannon Madur. She starts charities, Megan, okay? I even have a plate that says, this isn't my plate you fucking bitch. And I've always rooted for banana Shannon. She's bananas. But when that DWI happened, like the footage really rocked me. I have been. I have been. upset since I saw that. And I saw her at BravoCon. I had every opportunity to just go up to her, introduce myself, and, you know, have a conversation like I normally do. But seeing her at BravoCon really triggered me. I know she's paying her dues now, but at the time I was like,

this woman needs to be in jail. And I love Shannon. But it was just so, so disturbing to me. So I went into this premiere with that mindset of like, Shannon, I'm mad at you, you know? But then watching the premiere, I'm back to loving Shannon Bajor, Storm's Bador. And it really, I mean, the scene with her daughters, I thought was really important for Shannon, I mean, for us to really understand like, I don't want to say, people are trying to say like it's not John Jansons. she got a DWI. Obviously, it's Shannon's fault. But the emotional abuse that he's enacted on her, I feel like has driven her to a little bit of this unhinged place that has manifested through this DWI. And it's really sad.

I'm glad Shannon looks like she's doing better. I hope she's not drinking. It seems like she may be in denial about it. So I hope that she can dig deeper and get out of this rut in this cycle of like constant just going with men who treat her like crap and being upset about it and spiraling and then getting into another relationship. I was really happy to see her on Watch What Happens Live where she said, I don't want to date anyone.

I want to be alone. And that to me is major growth for Shannon Bador. So I am very happy about that. This episode, though, this premiere was just, I don't think, I don't really have any constructive feedback to give them because it was almost flawless. Yeah, totally. Dylan, how about yourself? What's it up to you in terms of how this was presented? Definitely, just to follow up on what you're saying, Jenny, but the way it was presented, the way it was cut together was really good.

And I really loved how they're building up to the big climax of Shannon and Alexis having a head-to-head, just how much they included of them getting set up and her being like, oh, we need to drag this table over into the shade and just awkwardly dragging the table on the concrete as the cabaret crew kind of impatiently tries to get set up around them. Everybody inside, clustering around the window, trying to find the best way to seat themselves to get the best view of what's going to happen. intercutting, like, their, like, commentary as they try to read body language and read lips with them starting to get worked up with each other. It was an amazing climax. Like, it was so well put together. It was so entertaining. Absolutely love that.

Totally. And to, like, cap it off with the, like, Shannon spiking the camera saying perfect and then giving, like, a really sudden, like, twist of, like, yeah, the hair flip. Oh, amazing, amazing. She knew the assignment. Totally, yeah. I thought that this was really well-constructed this episode. I love the scene between Shannon and her daughters

and how that was intercut with the scene at the gym, with Tamara and Emily and Jen all talking. Because the way that this, like, the way that it framed it emotionally, it really made me feel like Shannon was isolated and on an island. She only has her family and she's kind of like hibernating and not facing the exterior world. We almost exclusively see Shannon in this posture where she's by herself and alone with her family up until this party, with the exception of some flashbacks that we get of some conversations that happen. And to have that cut against, you know, the casual socialization of the gym, I thought was a really strong juxtaposition in order to enforce that view of Shannon as really just kind of curling up into a ball and being insular.

So I thought that that was so effective. I also really love the use of the like slow dissolve that we saw during this. we usually see on Real Houseways, especially Orange County, we've got such like snappy editing. There's like these transitions that happen where it's like, you know, the screen is getting sliced from one scene to the other and real hard cuts and stuff like that. And we saw at key moments during this, we saw these slow dissolves from one shot to the next and like slow fades to black, which is something that is so uncharacteristic of Real Housewives. I thought it really added a lot of emotional weight. Reminded me, Dylan, you'll love to hear the like callback to Holdover's core. It was giving, you know, Alexander Payne doing a slow dissolve of like Paul Giamatti.

I, yeah, I really thought that they put a lot of thought into, you know, the emotional decisions within the editing of this episode that really helped, you know, reintroduce us to these characters because a lot of them have new faces. So we need a reintroduction. $75,000 face, apparently, for Shannon. Yeah. Yeah, I think that covers a lot of the artistic perspective here. Let's get a quote from you, Jenny.

What's it out to you in terms of quotes? I can't, I mean, this is not my favorite quote, but Alexis, her Jesus jugs with her, There's the door, Shannon Bador. I know she was practicing that. Oh, yeah. And then she's the one who walks away, which is just so moronic and very on brand for Jesus Jugs. So it was very inferiority.

I thought she delivered the line well, but it was slightly undercut by the fact that they were already outside when she said it. Yeah. But I love that last part where Shannon's by herself takes a sip. you know, does her hair flip and she looks directly into the camera and says, perfect. It really was. That's how I feel about that whole premiere. Real cherry on top. Yeah.

Okay, let's talk about the strategic decisions here. I think that even though this is like the first episode and there's a lot of setup here, I do think that there was some interesting like strategy going on. I want to get both of your guys's thoughts. Jenny, did anything stand out to you here? WTF on Jennifer, whatever her name is, Jennifer P. And her rent situation, like, she just said it so casually as if that's normal. And I was like, am I crazy or is she crazy?

She's definitely crazy. It gave me flashbacks of Lynn, the Bengal lady, who got a victim. did on OC in like back in season two or something, I don't understand what Jennifer's strategy is here. Maybe she just wants to get paid by the show and she's like, I don't know, this is what it is. And she's throwing it all out there like, please give me on for another season so I can pay my rent. I really don't know.

It's weird. I just, what do you guys think about that? because that whole thing is very strange to me. Yeah, I think it's like, it's totally bizarre, like you said. It's interesting that she, like, the only income that she acknowledges is like a $50 per class of yoga. When I thought she owned the studio, so I feel like there's more coming in there. Plus, that completely negates any money that she would be getting as a hostwife on this show. I don't really understand.

This is something that we also saw last season where she was saying like she couldn't scrape together, you know, $5,000 or something like that. And, you know, it was her first season as a housewife. You can kind of like see where that's coming. But if you've got a full season under your belt, this is your second year in a contract as a housewife. I am a bit more skeptical of that. the fact that you're, you know, so out to lunch here.

I think one of the things that's really interesting about them kind of highlighting this is how it's positioned against what Gina is doing. I'm a Gina geniac. I think that's what we call ourselves in the Genie fan base. But, yeah, I really love that she is, like, taking head on this opportunity to establish a career that's separate from being a housewife while on screen. Like she is commanding her situation like financially by, you know, giving herself a safety net and, you know, leveraging the show and not just like thinking

that it's going to last forever that she's on this show. And also how she's navigating her love life with, with Travis and being like, actually, I think you've got to move out for the sake of my kids. They need more space. I'm not ready to commit to you as, you know, a co-owner on a house when you've got all this emotional baggage that has been there for like seven years that you're not able to separate yourself with. So for her to like really be strong enough to say like, no, we've got to like have our own spaces and really establish a foundation for herself. I think it takes a lot of strength and a lot of smarts. and I just really appreciate what she's bringing here.

And it reads as the complete opposite of what Jen is doing. With maybe the exception of like Jen not wanting to commit to moving in with Ryan or West Coast Louis, as I like to think of him. Oh my gosh. It's so funny. I love that he has the most insane drink order, Malibu rum and Diet Pepsi. I find that insane. I think that's really weird. I feel like his fashion choices are kind of insane.

Oh, yeah. Incredible. Yeah, incredibly weird fashion choices. West Coast Louis is good, yeah. I think genetics is what you guys call yourself, actually. I think that's, okay. Yeah, I don't know. We can work on that a bit more. Yeah, we got it. But I do think, yeah, like, just like housing and real estate is such a big thing in this episode.

It often is an O-C, I think, but there's just so much focus on whether it's, like, Heather's extremely lavish housing situation and her place that we used to be. be owned by Carrie Grant and Latter Turner apparently are like, you know, Shandin complaining that her place is too small now to like Jen just accumulating piles of unpaid rent that she's ignorant of apparently. And then of course the big one is like you said, Craig, Gina seemingly trying to push out Travis to make more room for her family while also being a real estate agent now, as you also mentioned. It's just really interesting how. everybody seems to be going through something to do with, like, how much space they have, what kind of housing they have. Do you guys agree that Travis kind of sucks, though?

Yes. I just thought, yeah, like, the conversation was not a good look for him there. He was, like, really just kind of, like, mumbling, not finishing his sentences, refusing to be constructive in any way, just being like, oh, it is what it is. So I have a question I'm sorry to interrupt I have a question Is he moving out or is she moving out Because I thought she was moving out

He I think he's moving out So she's like kicking him and his children out I think Yeah I was kind of confused by how it was going on too But I felt like she was like found him a new place Or try to find a new place It just be like you're going to have to Oh my gosh this makes me think of her totally different

Because I am not a Gina fan Like I don't like dislike her, but I don't understand why she's a housewife. I did a podcast recording last week where it was mixing with Monnie. Moni could not get over the fact that Gina was using paper plates. Like we're on Housewives. How is this woman on here? And Jennifer, too. Like I want to see Heather Dubrow wealth.

I want to see. hexagonal ice cubes. I'm still mad that we didn't see those from the old house. But I don't want to see paper plates. You want to see like a little slim sliver that says 2024 on top of an espresso martini that doesn't fully dissolve and you have to spit it back again. Oh, that looks really gross. And the fact that Emily drank it, even though she spit it out.

Like that's very on brand for Emily though. Yeah. I like her once again trying to make Heather's parties look. as bad as you can. But to what you said, I actually like it when there's like different wealth strata in the same show. I find it interesting. I like that we get that extra layer of tension when you have people who are like

trying to find a kind of place to live versus people who live at extreme luxury. I like having both at the same time. It's just another way for there to be tension between the characters. So I appreciate that. Does it feel weird though that you have people who wouldn't normally hang out? Like, for example, we have this new girl, Katie, who is friends with Sutton Strack from Beverly Hills. And I don't believe this for a second. I don't believe that Sutton's Track is friends with Gina.

I don't believe they would ever hang out or talk on the phone. And I don't believe that Katie and Gina hit it off right away. And why is Gina mentioning how they're. like both young or whatever. How old are they? They're not like in their 20s. What is this some kind of like low key shade? I just wasn't feeling it.

I'm sorry, I don't like Gina on that much. Yeah, I kind of, I am willing to accept like that the introduction of a new housewife. That's just kind of part of the, the cave of these shows. We need some sort of way to have them introduced into the group dynamic.

I'm willing to, kind of suspend my disbelief around that. I think to like get back to like you mentioned, Dylan, this idea of the kind of disparity between the economic position of these housewives. I do think that that does add some texture here. And one thing about the like Orange County that I think is interesting specifically with regards to like real estate is how. you know, if you see, like, if you look at something like Real Housewives of New York,

when they talk about their location and their housing, it adds a lot of like to the narrative. We see these like these characters kind of informed by where they live and this like the actual geography of their places adds a lot to their character. Whereas we've described Orange County as being more of a voice. And like, it's harder to position, like, where these, um, these women live because they don't have the same, like, rich geographic history as a place like New York, at least within kind of the, the cultural, uh, identity. Like, we, like, I don't know what it means to be in one neighborhood in Orange County versus another. It doesn't add a lot. But they're like, um, it does mean a lot in terms of like, like, um, it does mean a lot in terms of, like,

the assets that they have access to. And that kind of position within their, like, within the spectrum of the economic positions that we see on this show, it does give us a bit more insight into where they fit in there. And, you know, how important that is to each of these people and what they do with it and how they provide for their families and how they now. navigate various social situations and it informs like the stakes that they have on the show and how important this paycheck is to them as as a character. And like you said, we see Jen really talking about her position as being kind of less privileged than someone like Heather DeBro obviously and how she's trying to use that as kind of

an emotional tool to maybe land another paycheck. Yeah, I think it does add some texture to these shows. Do you guys think, or this show specifically? Do you think Jennifer will stay on because of this? Or like we've seen in the trailer that her fiance or whatever, he's gotten like $16 million into his account that was unexplained.

There's like some, I don't know, accusations of fraud maybe. Do you think the money part of it is like part of her strategy to stay on? Yeah, I think that she's really clinging to Tamara as a life raft, whether she knows it or not. The fact that Tamara is willing to engage in conflict with her is really the only thing that she's bringing to the table here. I am surprised to see her back after last season, honestly. I thought that the Jen and Rhine that we had the season before added more to, the show than this, you know, Jen and Ryan 2.0. So yeah, I'm, I'm kind of shocked. I don't really

love her as a housewife, but we'll see what she brings. I kind of wish Elizabeth Vargas didn't go away because since she's left the show, I think she's been held hostage. She's, she revealed she was in a cult. Like she's going to call. Hello? Why isn't she on this show? So weird. Yeah. Well, Gina is opening a door for her to come back, I guess, by trying to sell her a house. Yes. Both literal and figurative door opening going on there. I'm here for it. Bring her back.

Yeah. Or Noella. Noella was so messy and like, like she was like she was from another planet. She was just all over the place. And the OSE has had a few down seasons. I think I'm a big. fan of Vicky just for what she brings to the show. Obviously not the greatest person in the world, but I think she brings a lot. She's a natural born reality star. And I think that the OC when it

dropped Vicky and Tamara, it lost a lot. And even just bringing Tamara back, it's still struggling a little bit to find its footing. So I'm hopeful that we'll see more of Tamara and Vicky this season and maybe it'll pave the way for a return of Queen Victoria. Well, Vicki has her new podcast now with Christian Gray Snow on her dad. So that's pretty cool because now instead of her being on the show, she can talk about it. And she actually revealed, I just saw a clip on Instagram. I believe John Jansen was caught kissing, like French kissing, not just like a peck. French kissing another woman at the quiet woman while Shannon was in the bathroom.

Like, this wasn't even like they were broken up or maybe they were together and she wasn't there with him. She was with him and he still made out with another woman. That is heinous. It is so audacious, gross. It's giving Tom Sandoval and I don't think I need to explain how I feel about him. I was going to say we need to get him on Vanderpump rules Give him a job at Sir

Put him in one of those like Those dresses Those form fitting dresses No but he doesn't love the spotlight He broke up with Shannon Because it's too much for him Oh my God I hate him

Let's get into any other highlights That we haven't covered Jenny anything stand out to you Highlights I mean Shannon just looks so good. Yeah. I don't know if it's the facelift or I don't know like she just looks really good.

Whoever is doing her glam, they're on point, that facelift, that 70. Oh, so here's another thing that was revealed on Watch What Happens Live. She got a $75,000 facelift that John Jansen paid for. He's now suing her for that saying that was. alone. She's like, I never signed anything, but Shannon said she tried to give him $75,000 to like drop the lawsuit and everything. He refused to take the $75,000. What does that mean? To me, that means this man is just trying to torment Shannon Storm's Bador and it has nothing to do with money because if I was in his situation, if that was really the case and I was like,

okay, you said you're going to pay me back. You didn't. I'm going to sue you for it. If they said, here's $75,000, I'd be like, peace, grab that and be out. Why is he still continuing with this? I don't understand. Yeah, that's interesting. I didn't know that about the facelift. It seems like financial abuse, honestly, just using it as a tool to be abusive. And yeah, I, I'm interested to see what we get out of, you know, Johnny J. this season, if we're going to see a little bit of a downfall or a darker side.

He has always been kind of a darker point in Shannon's story. Like even though David seemed like he was like a real psychopath, somehow John Jansen

seemed like a darker point in Shannon's life. And that's just based on my gut read of him and what we've seen on on camera it just like really darked me out it felt like it worsened Shannon's dependency on alcohol and um just like he comes across as like maybe struggling with alcohol as well and just this like I don't know this dark picture I've got of them off camera being like stumbling around in their house and like grappling with dependency issues both on substance and each other.

Just really kind of darked me out. And yeah, I'm curious to see what we see in terms of his relationship with Jesus Jugs. Dillon, do you have any other highlights here? Just a quick shout out to when Emily asked Gina if Travis is divorced and she says, they're bifurcated. I don't know what the fuck that means. Oh, yeah. I still haven't looked that up.

What does that mean? Well, I mean split, but I don't know why she's using that specific word. I think she's just been hitting the phezzorus a lot lately. She's been really... I think it's actually there's a legal distinction. So I think there's like... I think it's a type of divorce where you're expecting it to be a prolonged like negotiation. At least that's what I saw, I think, on Reddit or something like that.

There's a lot on Reddit about Gina and Travis right now. She has definitely been studying her laws. You know, she makes a shout out to Hammerabby's coat. So, yeah, good for her. Working on that vocabulary. I don't know. Something about this Travis thing with Gina seems so off. I don't know if it's Gina trying to hide something or if the producers are trying to mess with us.

But I didn't know Alex Baskin was the executive producer. of Orange County. He's also the executive producer of other shows like Beverly Hills, but also Vanderpump Rules. And when I watched, you know, I've watched all seasons of Vanderpump Rules. And then when Scanaval happened, I really was diving deep. And now Alex Baskin is on my radar because I feel strongly that he's messing with us. All of us.

He's a puppet master. Yeah, he is. And he can. He's the producer. That's what they do. But I don't feel like it's in a good way. So I'm watching paying attention. Very good thing. Yeah, I think that there's maybe a case to be made that Gina doesn't feel as secure in her position as being a full-time cast member. Like we're seeing this evidence a little bit with her actually pursuing another line of work on camera. And, you know, I think there could be a case to be made that this is a, storyline just for the drama to give her something here.

But I also think like just the behavior that we're seeing from Travis, it does suck. Like him acting like a moody teen during this conversation about moving out and him reacting like, oh, well, whatever it is what it is. I can't do anything about it. Like I think that that is a little bit of a red flag in a relationship. Just that style of communication. It's very closed off. So I think that there could be trouble within that dynamic.

And I think that there's something to be said about like Gina, you know, maybe outgrowing her need for him within this relationship. Like she's been able to make so much progress within her family situation post-divorce. And she's feeling like she's moved on, whereas he's had this hanging over his head and is not able to make progress. if he's entering like negotiations for custody or for finances with the same attitude that he has for this conversation that we see about him like maybe moving out her just like floating this idea. If he's not as open to, you know, a conversation with that level stakes as one that, you know, would happen during a negotiation for a divorce. I think like she's right to see this as a red flag and step back a little bit.

So there could be some genuine issues here. And I'm, yeah, I'm interested to see where this goes because I think that they're still together from what I've seen on social media. Yeah. I just wish she would break up with him, though, because I don't understand. And you can even see when she says, it says a lot about you and your character that you're even willing to entertain this. To me, that means she's basically confessing that she knows this is a fucked up situation and that it's not favorable to him. And yet he's still just like, meh. It's also such a stark contrast, the way she's engaging in that conversation, the way he is, the way she's saying things like that where she's like, I'm saying positive things about you.

I'm saying like nice things. I'm trying to like keep this like open and positive. And he's just being like, well, I'm not happy about it. But I don't know. Like just doing the complete opposite of just like being clammy and negative. And it's just a very, very bad look for him in that conversation. I want to hear from his ex-wife or wife. They're so married.

Right. Even though they're bifurcated. I think we talked about a lot of my highlights here. I do think it's interesting that the way that they set this episode up, everyone is in the state, like a state of transition or undergoing some sort of transformation. Like we're seeing Heather DeBrow is in like three different houses now. We're seeing, you know, Emily has had a physical transformation. She's also like renovating her kitchen.

We're seeing, you know, Gina is in a career transition and we're seeing, potentially a change in the dynamic within their house. Obviously, Shannon's in a new place. So I think that there's a lot of, or in Jen as well, is potentially moving from this house that she's in and wherever she ends up landing. I think that the stage is set for a really interesting season because there's not a lot of deep-rooted,

foundation in any of these situations and there's just so much potential for change and growth here. So I'm really excited about what is on the horizon here. What do you guys think about Tamara? Like, is she needed? What is happening? There's like, what is she doing? I love Tamara. I think she's like a mass or manipulator. I think that When Tamara was introduced on Real Hostwives or Orange County, she changed what it meant to be a housewife. She introduced this strategic dynamic to this show. I think that, you know, love her or hate her.

And I think in most cases, it's a lot of, like, hate her. I think that she does bring a lot to the table in terms of how having someone on there that is willing to pull strings and manipulate things. Because without her, the person that I think does that. this the best is actually Gina. Like we see how she's kind of toying with with Shannon here. And like we saw a conversation between Gina and Shannon where they kind of like make up a little bit.

And Gina's like, oh, actually like I'm in your corner now. I'm on your team here. And like kind of pumping her up to like get into a confrontation with Alexis and then hedge her bet strategically within the group where she's like, you know, it's really not fair for them to be fighting over John Jansen. Like, is this really fair that they're out there? When she was like stoking that fire for them to go and like get into it, I think that Gina is someone that doesn't get a lot of credit for her ability to, to stir the pot and add,

you know, tension and, and drama here. We see it. She's just a lot more subtle about it than Tamara is. But I think, yeah, I think Tamara definitely brings, bring something to the table. If she were to leave and we didn't get Vicky back or something like that, I don't know what would be left here. But how about you? What's your take on Tamara? I mean, I'm a huge traders fan.

I love that show. Tamara was on. So I feel like some weird kind of loyalty to her because of that. It makes no sense at all. But I do appreciate what Tamara has been. brought to the Housewives franchises as a whole. I just don't know about the future of this season and how that's going to play out. I feel like a lot of people are kind of over her antics.

Like it's always kind of the same. She pokes and she'll start screaming or like, you know, like, I need something new. Give us a new schick, I guess, is what I'm looking for. Yeah, she needs to have like an emotional journey like we're seeing with Margaret Joseph. I would help her out of a ton. So, you know, she mentioned her daughters and how Sophie is now 18 so she can be on screen, which that scene where she starts crying and Sophie's like, okay. That was, so actually Sophie might be my star.

But she, Tamara talks about Sydney, her other daughter. And there's a lot circulating on social media, I guess. Sydney posted something on Facebook a few years ago or a couple years ago. or a couple years ago after her graduation saying that this is why she doesn't speak to her mother because she has boundaries and her mother continues to break those boundaries. And the Facebook message was very heartbreaking. And it makes you look at the show and what Tamara is telling us in a very different light. So I always find that stuff interesting because obviously the producers want us to see one thing,

but these are real people. This isn't like a fictional thing. There's stuff going on outside and they can't fit everything into the show. So that's where I'm like, I don't know how deep to go in. Like, where's the fourth wall? I don't know where to stop.

Yeah, totally. I think that's something that is really interesting about Bravo shows is like that line between, you know, that fourth wall is so blurry. And it, you know, sometimes it's really, easy to identify and other times it's it's not and one thing we were talking about on a previous

episode is with with teresa and how it's so blurred for her her idea of what true friendship is is like are you is it's colored by the the context of the show and it's almost exclusively viewed through that it's like friendship to teresa is like what can you do for me on on the show there's like nothing else really really matters and i think tamra is maybe another example of this. Everything is viewed through the lens of the show and, you know, what, what can you do for me? How am I going to leverage this? And that fourth wall is completely shattered for her. Dylan, did you have any other highlights? No, I think we pretty much covered it for me. Okay, let's, let's dive into our stars. Jenny, who are your stars here? Yeah, I think Sophie.

I always love like a non-main character kind of shining in an episode. And I think that was Sophie in this episode, just how she shut Tamara down. Because Tamara, you could see how calculated Tamara is. She's like immediately, the first scene with her daughter who hasn't been on for years, she's like asking about her father. And Sophie's just like, I'm not talking about it. And Tamara, this is the first time you could see Tamara actually like kind of respect to boundary where she's just like, okay. Usually if that was another cast member, she'd probably poke a little bit more or be a little passive aggressive.

But no, that's not the case with Sophie. And with her sister too, Sydney. Sydney, like I said, in that Facebook post, she has specifically asked her mother not to mention her name in any way. It's a very Will Smith, like, keep my wife after now. And so for Tamara, her first scene on the premiere to mention Sydney is just, I mean, come on. Yeah. But Sophie handled it so well and for being 18 years old and with a mother like Tamara, who's been on reality TV for over a decade. I mean, I think she was a star other than Shannon Bajorn.

of course. Totally. Dylan, how about you? First star to Alexis Bolino. Not necessarily because of anything she did, but just because of her presence on the show and the fact that she has this relationship with Johnny Jay is just really entertaining. And it's just promises to be so much fun going forward. So I'm just glad that that bit of lore just got dropped in there.

It's going to be really fun to see how that develops. And second start to Shannon for the way she dealt with everything. and setting up that the face to face and dragging the table at the end and all of that. It was just like beautiful, beautiful TV. Let's give a third start. Let's give a third start to Ryan because he sucks. But it's if the one thing that Jen is really bringing to the show is Ryan. Because Ryan is like just, you just know that he's like just a weirdo.

And he's just kind of a sleazy guy. And it's, like with Louis, it's fun to have those kind of unpredictable, weird, sleazy guys in the mix. And so, sure, I like seeing him in the restaurant there with his bad drink order and his bad jacket. Just a funny person. So, you're a C-Rat. Are you drinking Malibu and Diet Coke? Obviously, yeah. Wow.

I love that. Amazing. Yeah, I think that my third star will go to Alexis. I think that, like you said, her energy that she's bringing is really refreshing and there's so much potential there. And I think she's actually a very interesting folly to Shannon, who is someone who we've talked about her not navigating things strategically whatsoever. just being a like purely chaotic bull in a china shop type housewife where you know she's just like things happen around her and she can't help but attract drama and she's got such good comedic timing um so i think that alexis it has a similarly chaotic energy towards her and there's

all sorts of unknown surrounding her and there's a lot of potential there i'm excited to see with that what happens there um number two star is going to be gina for me like i i said i think we got a very well-rounded performance from her we we saw a really emotional side to her story with how she's navigating things with travis i think we saw her subtle art of being able to instigate and and like poke uh poke the bear and navigate things strategically like by realigning herself with with Shannon but also stirring the pot a little bit. I think it was just a really well-rounded performance and she's one of these housewives that I think is a really understated player here.

So I'm always going to prop her up because she does not get the credit that she deserves in my mind. And then number one has to be Shannon Bador because, you know, we are seeing her emerging as a emotional center this. this season or this episode. And, you know, those emotions are complex. It's not like, it's not just like sympathy because she's brought this on herself. We're like really, it's a really dynamic like human raw emotion that we're seeing from her here.

And yeah, I really appreciate it. And she's giving us iconic moments like spiking the camera and saying perfect is just like it comes naturally to her. just like to do these things. And it's there's no intentionality behind it. But yeah, I think it's, it's fantastic to watch. Agreed. Awesome.

Well, do you guys have anything else on Orange County that you want to call back to? I'm just glad that I'm kind of excited for the season. Yeah. Yeah, I wasn't really looking forward to it, but now I am after that premiere. my my one complaint is that we didn't get taglines released we uh we usually see those come out before the start of the season and we always on this show we like to go through and and rate them here but we didn't get the opportunity to do that so uh we'll look for that well next week we don't have a show

so all of our listeners unfortunately i'm out of town so there's no show next week but the following week we'll be sure to rate the taglines and um we'll we'll get into it then uh thank you so much for doing this, Jenny. This has been a blast. You want to let everyone know if they don't already know where to find you, where they can find you? Sure. On social media, I'm on Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, under Bravo and Blaze. And on YouTube, my channel is Jenny Blaze. And my podcast is wherever you get your podcast. It's Bravo and Blaze with Jenny Blaze. Awesome. Dylan, how about yourself? If anybody wants to read my sporadic thoughts about contemporary movies. You can find me on

Substack, Dylan, D-Y-L-A-N-Ferguson. And I'm Craig Midwinter. You can mostly just find me on our Instagram and TikTok accounts. Bravo Outsider on both platforms. You can be sure to like and subscribe to us on YouTube and any podcast platform of your choice. Like

we mentioned, we are at podcastawards.com. We are eligible. So be sure to go and check that out and throw us a vote. Until next week, keep on wiping.