Oscars Outsider - Real Housewives of Orange County S18E08 & S18E09 Recap/Analysis (feat. Carson Frae of "The Real House Guest of North Hollywood")

Episode Date: September 10, 2024

We're back! And this week we're joined by Carson Frae of "The Real House Guest of North Hollywood"  @TherealhouseguestofNoho  and we're diving into the latest episodes of Real Housewives of Orange County. If you enjoyed this breakdown, don’t forget to hit the like button, comment below your favorite moment, and subscribe for more Bravo content! Chapters: 00:00 - Man in the Moon 01:00 - Intro 01:59 - Real Housewives of Orange County S18E08 Recap 28:46 - How was your break? 31:51 - Real Housewives of Orange County S18E09 Recap 01:00:29 - Outro 🥂 About Bravo Outsider The Bravo Outsider Podcast offers an outside perspective on Bravo shows like The Real Housewives, unlike any other Bravo podcast! We focus on the artistic value of these shows while providing strategic analysis of the social game at the core of the Bravo docu-soap. We love thick literary references and diving into themes before diving into the drama! 🍸Featured Bravolebs: Real Housewives of Orange County: Tamra Judge, Heather Dubrow, Shannon Storms Beador, Gina Kirschenheiter, Emily Simpson, Jennifer Pedranti, Katie Ginella, Vicki Gunvalson, Alexis Bellino 📣 Stay Connected: Find Bravo Outsider: On your podcast platform of choice: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/bravo-outsider/ Instagram: ⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/bravooutsider TikTok: ⁠⁠https://www.tiktok.com/@bravooutsider https://www.bravooutsider.com Find Carson Frae: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/therealhouseguestofnoho/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@realhouseguestofnoho Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@TherealhouseguestofNoho Find Dylan Ferguson: Substack: https://dylanferguson.substack.com/ 📖 Credits Music by FASSounds from Pixabay #RHONJ #RHOC #vanderpumprules #bravo #realitytv #thevalley #RealHousewives #vanderpumprules #scandoval #pumprules #rhodubai

Thank you very much, Heather Debrough. Thank you, Terry Debrough. The transition from Terry's face to the moon? Yeah, just an iris in on Terry's face that dissolves into the moon. What? Who cooked up that? I love that. I love that.

I kept going back and replaying it because it was so funny to me because it was just like, ah, you know. It was very old Hollywood and it felt like the editors, I don't know if they were calling out the fact that his like, post-surgery face is very like man in the moon or if it was like, I don't know, it was, the blend of all of it was just, it was just visually funny. It was like conceptually funny. I love it. Yeah, I don't know if it made me think of old Hollywood, but it made me think of aliens where Cameron throws in a bizarre like crossfade between Sigourney Weaver's sleeping head and like the earth. Hello and welcome to the Bravo Outsider podcast. I'm your host Craig Midwinter. We're

back after a bit of a hiatus and we are pleased to be joined by the host of the real house guest of North Hollywood, Carson Frey. I might be a real house guest, but I won't sleep on your drama. Whoa, nice. That's great. So Dylan, I teased a little bit about why I'm recording this a little bit differently. So hopefully this works out, but we've got a new co-host that is going to be joining us. What? Betrayal. Did that come through?

Yeah. Yeah. Okay, great. It's my soundboard. I got a soundboard. Oh, nice. I am going to be so annoying with this thing. This is going to be amazing.

And we're going to lose so many listeners, too. People are going to hate this and I'm here for it. I love it. So we're going to, since we were on break, we have missed a few episodes of Real Housewives of Orange County. But I want to talk about the last two. So we're going to start. with season 18 episode 8, which was the Traders episode. Carson, if you want to lead us off with a little bit of a brief summary of what happened

in that episode. Tensions rise and rain falls in the O.C. Some women get vulnerable. Some take a step back. The women come together playing a game of Traders. Nice. I love it. Yeah.

I'm a fan of the Traders, so it was awesome to see this. There's a lot that I liked about this episode. Curious about the presentation, because this one really had a unique structure, something that we don't often see. Do you want to get us started with a bit of an analysis on the presentation of this episode? Yeah, I mean, I definitely was taken in by just like the weather of the episode. It was dark. It was like Scottish music. It gave me like very Macbeth vibes in a way, like something that is coming.

And it kind of felt like the tension was like leading. But the early scenes before it, that's when we saw a lot of. like Tamara and her daughter and then Katie and her daughter, it gave me a lot of like boyhood, like boyhood, ladybird, like mother, daughter coming together identity, which I really like was like, oh, they're just exploring abandonment and like different and that in the Orange County. But yeah, I really, really did love like the whole Traders party, like the darkness of it. and it kind of felt like there was like a lot of like visual progression throughout the time of like the tension rising. Yeah, totally.

This episode almost, it almost feels like we're covering three episodes this week because this episode felt like two episodes. Dylan, I'm curious what your thoughts were on this. Did you pick up on kind of two distinct chapters in this episode? Yeah, I mean, definitely when they enter the trader setting, it totally changes. and a good call, Carson, and that when we start to have like the rain coming a little bit at first and then more and more, it definitely just kind of seems to signal a shift,

like an aesthetic shift and just like a shift in tone. I love how it just gets more and more chaotic as they go deeper into this game and they go deeper into the night. And people don't quite understand the rules and everything is just getting strange and unhinged. And there's a lot of bizarre imagery, you know, reaching into the, they're like Betty Jeserat box and like having Emily pull out a bunch of crickets like the hobo at the start of Hellraiser and just Tamara getting pushed into the pool and then being just ET for the rest of the episode.

It just starts getting like very unhinged and visually chaotic and I really enjoy that. Yeah, it really leans into that that chaos too. Like we got that very like quick rapid fire in memoriam segment that they like toss in there for the Trace Amiga's. I yeah I I just loved how this devolved into chaos I was like it was interesting that they chose the traitors format for this like game show I think that that structure added a lot to the drama but I also appreciated that they didn't like they weren't so committed to adhering to that presentation for the gameplay like it just leaned into the chaos it let it like flow organically and And they picked and chose the elements of the structure that they wanted. And they still let the story speak for itself. I just thought that they did actually a really good job of picking and choosing what would be effective. And yeah, Carson, like you mentioned, the weather, the way that the weather and the atmosphere that we see through this episode, the way it plays out is amazing.

Because we see kind of a more lighthearted beginning where everything is sunny. We're like practicing yoga outside. We've got like spray tans happening outside in the backyard. And then as the as the storm builds, we have that crescendo during the Traders gameplay. And I, yeah, I thought it was funny. And I thought that there was actually an interesting duality there because we did have a lot of really kind of deep emotional. Like there was a lot of emotional depth and like darkness underneath all the sunny scenes that we got in the beginning.

Like we're seeing Katie and Jen talking about their like divorce and we're seeing that with like Tamara and her daughter and talking about like that severed parental tie. And that's all kind of the darkness that's beneath that like those all those sunny scenes. And we got that scene with Emily and Shane where, you know, Emily is revealing her insecurities about like being called mean and whether or not she's a good mother. and her relationship with her mother. And then we got the Traders, which is under darkness, and, like, it's presented in this dark and stormy way.

And it's got a dark and stormy, like, tone in terms of, like, the way that the fights are taking place. But ultimately, it is this, like, playful, like, playground. They know that they're playing, like, this game that isn't real. There's, like, they're also playing the housewife game, which is, like, fairly meta and, you know, not. the same sort of real stakes as they have in, you know, their, their relationships with their marriage and their children and stuff like that. So I really like that, that duality a lot.

I think OC, too, if you look at kind of both the episodes we're talking about, like, they all kind of always deal with duality. I feel like that's like this overlapping theme. Like, you know, Jen, you know, comes off wealthy, but she's not, you know, and we see, like, later in the next episode with, like, Heather and Shannon, you know, she's a men. and Heather's very uptight and rigid and has it together. And I think that's like a constant theme throughout OC is like duality, you know. Yeah, totally. Yeah.

And it's interesting. We've talked a lot actually about how the environment like or the geography of a place really impacts these shows in a really profound way. And Dylan, you've brought up the fact that in the OC, everyone has all this space, but they really like guarded it up. They're all behind like huge fences and gated communities. And they, how they present outwardly is very, um, distanced from how they are internally.

Whereas something like New York, um, what you see is, is what you get. And, you know, the impact of being so, um, in such a densely populated environment and having to muscle for your space and not having the room to put up this like this guard.

It impacts the personalities that we see on on screen. So yeah, I think it's really interesting. And yeah, good call picking up on that this is definitely something that we have seen over the course of Real Housewives of Orange County as a common theme. Yeah. I think just being in like a sunny environment too, just to continue that for a second is like also part of that kind of OC geography and themes thing. and in the sense that, like you mentioned, the early scenes, where it is very exciting, we get lots of B-roll cutaway to beaches and stuff like that. There's really that a sense of that.

Well, everybody has, like, these dark, difficult things that they're dealing with under the surface. When you feel like you can just be, like, outside in the sun all the times, it's so easy to just be, like, Jen and just kind of ignore the whatever troublesome things are going on. And because you feel like there's a sense of, like, freedom and escape everywhere. and to switch from that to having to be indoors and when like the rain forces everybody to go in and then they have to like deal with each other and the game kind of closes in on them in the net.

It all really like sums it up really well. Yeah, the rain looked so trapping. It looked so cold. It looks like such a long day. Like I was like, it was like, when will it end? Even though I was enjoying it because I was like, they look cold. You know, which kind of like built to the tension of it. Yeah, it made it feel more claustrophobic because they all had to huddle in under the bar to like stay out of the rain.

They were like crouched underneath these these umbrellas or in the veranda. Everything was like very crowded with, you know, like we've mentioned in the OC, you're used to having a lot of space to play with. We're not used to seeing it. So claustrophobic. And so yeah, it was really interesting the impact that that had and the, the, you know, the, attention that it added for sure. Let's move into our quotes here. Carson, did you have a quote that stood out to you? I'm happy that Heather has acknowledged. Let me start that over. I'm happy that Heather has acknowledged that Katie exists and Breeze there. I feel like that's a step in the

right direction. Just so funny to me. Like, and I think, yeah, it was Emily. I think Emily has such funny confessional. She really reminds me of like Paige DeSorbo, you know, just like, in their like wittiness. It's like, she's a self-aware housewife, which I don't typically like love. I kind of like when they're not self-aware. I kind of think it makes for like funnier,

you know, just like environments. But Emily, she's self-aware and uses it in the way that Paige does. And I love her as like the narrator sometimes of the OC because I think she can kind of bridge both sides of the group a little bit sometimes,

which I love. And I think her and Gina are having like a great moment. on the OC overall. Yeah, I agree. I am a geniac, so I am like always here for Gina. I think that she's like a really underrated housewife in terms of how she like plays and manipulates situations. I think that she's just got such, um, such a knack for how to use information. So I, yeah, I'm a big fan of her. And, um, yeah, uh, I completely agree. And Emily is a fantastic housewife as well. I think that she's really stepping into her own. I have always been saying that I think that you know, when they got rid of Tamara and Vicky, that that was a huge mistake because they're like

great housewives. But one thing that it did was it allowed Gina and Emily to have more space to like evolve as as housewives. And I think that they are way better for it. You know, I'm glad they brought Tamara back. It's time to bring Vicky back full time. I think I, you know, anytime she's on the screen, I'm reminded why, like, I miss her. So it was, I was happy to see her return here. I love seeing Vicki in this episode. It, like, made it for me. It's so funny.

And there was another person who I am a huge fan of that returned that I want to, maybe I'm jumping ahead to highlights here, but the return of Teddy cannot go unacknowledged. Teddy, my queen. I love her. I just love how Teddy is able to, like, trigger the entire fan base. Everyone hates her so much. And I think it's because she is just, like, so reactive and so effective. And, yeah, just seeing how seriously she takes herself and how seriously she took this role,

definitely giving up one of my highlights right now. But since we're talking about returns, I want to see the return of Teddy. we've just lost way more like listeners from my like pro teddy rant than the sound board will lose us but I'm fine with that. Lead into it. Make some sounds. I don't have one sound. You just have one sound in the sound bar. Wait, no, no.

Here's a good one. There we go. All right. Dylan, did you have any quotes that's about to you? I mean, it comes back in the next episode. And so it already gets highlighted, but I didn't really like Heather saying, in the spirit of inclusivity, I would like to invite you. It's just a hilarious way to invite somebody to a party by starting it off within the spirit of inclusivity. Like, it's just like a three-legged dog or something. That's just, that's really good stuff for me.

Yeah. My quote is it's very difficult for me to be stuck in the middle of this. When Tamara is referring to her position between Shannon and Alexis, like she doesn't have. to be in the middle of this. She has put herself in the middle of this. So I just really loved her, like, really making the situation about herself in that moment. One of the reasons that Tamara is an all-time great, the way that she's able to put herself in the middle of situations that she wouldn't otherwise be in and is able to cause chaos from that position. I love it. Let's talk about strategic decisions. Carson, is there any decisions that stood out to you from the housewives in terms of how they might be playing the housewife game?

Yes. Let me find it here on my notes. I do think Heather has a strategy just in the inclusivity, like inviting Katie. She's like, I want to be Queen B, but not villain. Heather does not like the villain edit. I was listening to Terry on, so you guys know how Tamara and Teddy have their podcast and they have a million podcast under them. I was listening to the Eds, the husbands.

Oh, yeah. And they had Terry on. And it was a long podcast, almost two and a half hours. Probably a good hour of it almost was Terry talking about how they quit the show because of the edit. And they will quit again. And like their kind of like love for fame. And I think Heather really is very intentional throughout the season. Like I will be the queen.

I will be on top. But I won't be the villain, you know. I also think there's just like overall strategy from, I can't. I can't tell if it's like production or Bravo, but just to humanize Shannon, like as much as possible to constantly humanize her and make her likable. And I don't think Shannon's gotten that before. Like I've been watching some of the old seasons, like during her divorce with David. She, they gave her a really bad edit. And even in like following seasons when they would flash back to her like weight loss and gain constantly.

So I do think there's strategy on that as well of just like, let's. make her as human and vulnerable because it's she might break if not if she got a bad edit she might break yeah it's interesting because you know um like you said that's not something that Shannon normally gets and this is coming off of her like doing something that is pretty abhorrent so you would think if anyone is set up to get a bad edit it would be Shannon and I think that Alexis thinks that as well because the way that she is acting it's like she thinks that she is going to be getting the edit that Shannon is getting. Like she is acting as though she is the hero that is coming in that is standing up for the

aggrieved party Johnny Jay and that she is this this champion that's coming in and she just comes across like so overconfident. She's trying to like even in some of the confessionals that we got earlier when she's like, oh, you want Lexi, fun Lexi to be coming to your party. She's trying to be fun Shannon. Like Shannon's alter ego, the fun Shannon. She's really trying to step in and be Shannon. She thinks that she's going to be getting this edit that Shannon is getting.

And yeah, that, yeah, I love to see this. And it is so cringeworthy when she's like trying to, you know, lean into this and try to look like she is this hero or gain sympathy. Dylan, did you have any strategy that stood out to you? I'm also interested in what Heather's doing because I agree that I think that's kind of her mission to not get a villain at this time. And also just to not have people, everybody against her, which is kind of how the previous season ended with like everybody against Heather. And I feel like her trying to cozy up to Alexis without it looking like taking aside is part of that. But I also, and I'm curious where she's going with that.

And I think we get a bit more of that in the next episode. but I do think we also see that with the way she's treating Katie where she wants it to be very understood that Katie has committed a transgression, but instead of freezing her out, wants it to be seen. I love this. We got Wes McCauley in the studio with us right here. But it wants it to be seen as like, like, I'm extending it all. of French, when I don't have to. I do not have to accept

Gage into this group at all, but I'm doing it because I am a queenly, kind, welcoming figure in the spirit of inclusivity, I deigned to do this. And that's just such a Heather thing to do. And I think that really speaks to her strategy of trying to, like you said, be kind of regal in the way that she approaches everybody else so that she can't be accused of being a villainous divisive figure. Yeah, I agree.

I think that, you know, Heather's approach this season is really interesting. And I think that Gina's reaction to it and her, like, I feel like she is reading the fact that Heather is not wanting to be the villain and it's needing to approach things with forgiveness to use that space to kind of operate and maybe manipulate Katie a bit. Really, you know, she's got a bit more play within the dynamic that she has with Heather. and, you know, how she can manufacture drama in from that position. I think that she's using that wisely. So, yeah, I think that that is one strategic element that I'm really curious to see how this plays out. Because she, you know, we've talked about how the, the k-fave of bringing on Katie has been that she's Gina's friend and now Gina has to, like, create distance so that she can create drama with, with Katie.

I think she's doing a really great job of it and she's kind of using the fact that Heather has to be forgiving and not be this person that is reactive in order to do that. And I think it's smart. Maybe I'm reading into a mastermind that isn't there, but you know, that's my prerogative. That's my opinion.

Okay. Keep on rolling, baby. Let's get into our highlights. Carson, what are your highlights? Wow. So, I mean, the push in the pool, I loved. I really, really loved. Overall, I really did love Emily, though, getting vulnerable about why Jen pisses her off

and her, like, kind of deep diving into it. Another highlight I want to talk about is I think it's so interesting seeing Tamara's and her daughter's relationship for the first time. I mean, we saw her as a toddler on the show like 15 years ago, but we really really, really, really don't know her daughter. And you can see Tamara continuing to bring up the things that you can see that she's like, hey, mom, don't talk about my sister, don't talk about my dad. I'm uncomfortable. Like, these are my boundaries. I get that feeling that that conversation has had. And then Tamara keeps bringing it up. Or she'll get shut down by her daughter and really lay it down in the

confessionals, which I'm like, again, that's like, you know, breaking the boundaries. And I find it really triggering that Tamara calls her daughter who's no contact with her, like, debt, like a debt, having a dead child. It's like the really interesting dynamic, though, to watch as a family, because it's also about, like, adult relationships with children and how those, like, evolve and change as these little beings become humans with their own thoughts. Yeah. So, yeah, just, I think that, those are my highlights, really, of the episode of seeing the relationships. And I, I also also find it funny putting 18-year-olds together for a play date. Yeah, totally.

That's a good point about, you know, Tamara and her daughter. And it's something that I hadn't really considered is the fact that, you know, a lot of these housewives, and I don't mean this in like a malicious way, but their journeys as mothers are used in order to like give like audience sympathy to them like to endear them. Tamara has not really had the benefit of having that tool at her disposal to like round her out as a housewife. And so seeing her having to do that with her adult children and um, you know, navigate things that way is interesting to watch because sometimes like it feels a little inauthentic and it's, yeah, I feel like that has a lot to do with just not being used to watching her in that role and not having a lot of

contacts for how she interacts with her children. Aside from, you know, we've seen a lot more of Ryan than, yeah, than anyone, anyone else. And that, like, he seems like maybe he's a bit more of a difficult child. I guess we've seen a little bit of Spencer in recent seasons as well. But, yeah, it's definitely not something that she has had a lot. lot of in her her storylines and her time on the show Dylan what about you what are your highlights i'm glad you i'm glad you brought up uh emily uh doing a bit of soul searching because i did enjoy that i don't necessarily buy her self analysis about being like i have to be aggressive because i

didn't have lunch money at school but i like her opening up a little bit and and try to dig into it and uh and i like that when she talks to jen she goes she gives like a full no holds barred apology like a no strings attached straight up apology which is always refreshing to see like an actual apology apology. And I thought it was a good episode for her. Yeah. I think that they really got to kind of the crux of their issues, though. And not to say one is like that there's truth to either side or like one side is like fully the correct read.

But Emily thinking of herself as someone who has had to struggle for absolutely every thing that she has and like really had to try to, you know, work for everything. whereas Jen being this person that is having to, like never having to work or consider anything is always being taken care of. So she's always being, you know, pampered. I can see how Emily would, you know, resent that and how that would trigger her. And now seeing her, you know, having to navigate and be more in this, like, disadvantaged position, she sees her as prey almost. And it's taking out a lot of the anger that she has about, you know,

her own journey to where she got to on Jen. Yeah, I think that we covered most of my highlights. Let's talk about our stars for this. Carson, do you want to get us started? Who are your stars? My star for this episode is 100%. Emily. I really just liked her at the party. And I think her and Gina for me, like, they seemed like they actually have fun, which I like. And I think that kind of carries the drama throughout the episode. But yeah, I think I'm just really enjoying it. Like what you guys were saying, it's their season. I'm enjoying them. And I also was glad to have a break from Alexis this episode. So my zero star. Dylan, how about you?

My biggest negative in this episode was that Alexis wasn't there, honestly. I find her hilarious and I needed her back. My first star is also going to be Emily, though, if only for the image of her holding up a fistful of crickets. Second star to Teddy for like getting really into it and just running that show like the military. And I don't know, I'll give a third start of tabrash. She's always funny. And it's great that she just ends up like just shivering under a blanket Look dazed and confused for the for the final stretch of that insane chaotic traders party.

Yeah, I agree with both of you about Alexis actually. I think like it was it was good to get a break from her. She's like she is really entertaining when she's on screen. I think that that is like one of the more compelling things about this season. But when she's there and Shannon are there, they are a bit of a black hole. Like nothing else can really go on other than Shannon and Alexis. So it was nice that we got this event without her there.

I think that my number three star is going to be Tamara. I think, you know, we had fun with her at the Trader Party. Like she was a good sport about being like toss in the pool. We saw like a bit of a side to her that we haven't seen. So I like that I'll give number two to Emily For all the reasons that we talked about And number one is going to be Teddy for sure

Let's go, let's go Queen Teddy Okay And if you don't like Teddy you can cry about it Well why don't you cry about it I love the Teddy love you know I love it I'm from Indiana So John Mellencamp is like Jesus from I'm from

Like I feel like everyone has a John Mellencamp story And I love Teddy getting some love for once in the universe She is probably like, I don't know any housewife that gets more hate than her. No, for sure. I don't think that there's any. All right. We're going to move on to talk about the most recent episode of Real Housewives of Orange County right away. Before we do that, just want to take the opportunity to ask you all to please like and subscribe to our podcast wherever you're listening.

Tell a friend that helps us out a ton. Dylan, how is your hiatus? What have you been up to? Anything interesting? So much. I've been fishing in the keys. I've been married. I've been on Everest.

I don't know. I feel like we're doing this yesterday. Interesting. That's the opposite for me. I feel like I have been driving my wife crazy with just like the amount of like projects, like half-baked projects that I'm doing. And having this as something to kind of like center my spare time around is, is going to be nice. My office is an absolute like chaos.

I've started a project to reorder. organize it and I got like halfway through that. I've been 3D printing the like craziest stuff. You can see in the background here. I've got this like logo that I put up for our podcast. And I don't know, I was making like puppets with with the kids. I've got this right here. That guy's great. That guy should be hosting the show. You should just hold that in front of the mic and just speak through it through that for the yeah. You're right. Yeah. That's that's that's That's the next co-host that we'll introduce. It's a wacky, like, puppet character.

But I also was like, I was like, oh, I want to, like, make a new shirt to wear for the show. And so I, like, 3D printed this, like, stamp. I saw this YouTube video of this guy that 3D printed a stamp to, like, stamp t-shirts. I'm like, I'm going to try that. I, like, basically ripped off the same design that he was using to test. And I printed it out, and I got it here. I was, didn't have time to throw it on before. but it doesn't really

I love that you're doing prop comedy on a podcast Are you drunk? Yeah, well, we get most of our views on YouTube So if you're listening on an audio-only platform Go to our YouTube and check out this It looks like the shirt It looks like you just got stabbed at it

Yeah But yeah, it didn't really turn out that good So what is it supposed to be It's okay So it is supposed to be like you know those plastic bags that they used to have that had like, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. Sure, yeah.

They still have those. Not here, they don't. Aren't those illegal now? Oh, the plastic. Yeah, they mostly changed them to like plant fibers or whatever. So that's supposed to be what it is. Oh, okay. That's actually kind of cool.

That's really cool. Yeah. The spray, like, it dripped so much. It didn't like adhere to the stamp that I printed out at all. So it just like went everywhere. But yeah. So that's what I've been up to. I've been causing chaos around the house.

I've basically been the Tamara of my household just causing problems. I'm sure your wife is so glad that we've restarted the show. Yeah, for sure. All right. Let's talk about the latest episode of Real Housewives of Orange County. Carson, do you want to give us a summary of this episode? Yes. The women take a trip to Sonoma to come.

together. They attempt to keep Alexis and Shannon apart to keep peace, but the looming lawsuit from John Jansen disrupts the group. Shannon crumbles from anxiety of secrets resurfacing. Excellent. Yeah, that's perfect. What's it out to you about how this was presented? This was definitely a contrast from the last episode about the traders. But still very environmental. You know, like they're in now like Northern California. It feels very woods. like it kind of like my roommate came in she was like are you watching big little lies and I was like no real housewives of Orange County you know it had that kind of feel to it um I also like really loved seeing them in the little cottages and stuff because housewise overall is a juxt position to like what a trad wife is you know and so kind of seeing them in that little like oh we're talking like kind of making fun of it I just really was like oh they don't see the juxtapist position, but I see it. Yeah.

And I felt like this whole episode was about juxtaposition. You know, you have, they're coming to find peace and they're like crumbling, you know. And like I talked about earlier with at the end with Shannon and Heather, I think it's, we see Shannon comes in with no makeup. You know, she's very, very vulnerable. She's in a rope. She's not dressed. She's just like kind of bursting out with vulnerability.

and we see Heather very rigid and sit like if you even look at how Heather always sits it's always like very lifted and stiff and Shannon's like she's such a mess and I think it's about these are what it is to be like housewife in Orange County you know these two things yeah totally Dylan how about you what's it's set out to you in terms of presentation here yeah I also really like the setting the rain hasn't really gone away it's kind of like a light drizzle but we're still kind of under the rain. So that kind of feeling that there's a little bit trapped by their anxieties and issues with each other is still kind of like dripping down, forcing them to not be able to spend too much time outside. But we were kind of settled into that, like you said, that woodsy environment, which I really like the spa environment where like the need to like be taken care of and and have people take care of you almost feels kind of oppressive. Like there's these people constantly hovering around being like, it's a massage time. we get a go. And I really like that. Like it's like somewhat relaxing, but there's also kind of like an oppression coming from the other sense from that like that need that you have to relax now. You have no choice but to do it. And I feel like that's all kind of contributing to Shannon, as you say, being that kind of crumbling figure who looks, who looks so so vulnerable and kind of at the at the end of her line there. It is it is a really interesting setting. And it's and it's nice to have them. to have them out of Orange County for a for a little while there. That's interesting that you kind of pick up on the oppressiveness of this like, pampering that as a theme here because I didn't,

I didn't pick up on that, but now that you say that, totally. And I'm thinking about like one of the first scenes that we see in this episode is at the DeBerouse House. And they're talking about how they don't have the skills to like hang up a picture. and, you know, their kids, like, don't know how to swing a hammer or do laundry and that sort of thing. And, you know, that's just kind of an extension of, you know, how they operate through this world.

So, interesting that they chose to include that scene because, you know, obviously it is, there's some intention in highlighting this as a theme here. Yeah, I love that. Also, do you know, do you have to know how to hammer a nail? Because they're like, yeah, I don't know how to hammer a nail. what's there to know? Like there's two ends. I'm not a carpenter. Maybe there's,

maybe it's much more like, um, skill based than I, than I thought. I mean, I've done it before when I need to, but it's like, you know,

once you figure out which end you hit, and it's usually the flat one. Like, what else do you need to know? How do you, like, where does like the advanced knowledge enter into that?

Well, Terry is a surgeon. Couldn't he figure it out? Oh, but he can't, he can't damage his hands. Those are the money. makers, right? So he doesn't want to want to risk like slamming his thumb

or something. Though I will say, you know what? Heather's like little packing hack where she's like, you put the tissue paper in seems kind of presented as a ridiculous thing. I think that's kind of smart. That's not dumb. I think that's

kind of an all right. Because I can imagine how that like she says when you get something like from a store that that provides just enough of a barrier that the crease isn't too hard. That's actually that that I mean I I usually pack the way that shattered packs like I'm just on a tarback trying to force a suitcase closed as all my clothes just fall out of it and in lumps. That's usually my strategy. So I'm I was taking notes there. I was like okay, okay, that this is

this and and how to hammer a nail are two skills I apparently need to learn. I'm watching. I don't know how much validity there is to that. Like I feel like most of most of most of, Most of the, like, creasing that comes is from, like, trying to jam as much, uh, stuff into your carry-on bag or your suit, your suitcase as, as possible. You know, Heather doesn't get her clothes creased because she's flying private and she can, like, you know, put as many suitcases as she wants. Right. Because she's not going to be the one handling them. Yeah. I feel like it's more a result of that, but, you know, whatever.

If it works, we'll have to, we'll have to test that. out, I guess. Dylan, when you're, when you're traveling after your season comes soon and we'll do a life hack spin off. Yeah. We'll test all these tricks. Cool. Let's talk quotes. Carson, what stood out to you in terms of quotes? We love and support them. We're not trying to hide them. We're not having them exploited. It's a dance. I like this side of Heather as well. It's like, you know, we don't see too much of their family. I mean, we do see them, but I, I, I, I, I, like, I, like, I, like her kind of pointing out of like her experience as a parent being separate from her child's experience, you know, and I think OC overall, like I know this is kind of pulling in the strategy,

but I think for a while, like in 2020, they kind of lost some viewership because it was the conservative show almost, you know, it was kind of outspokenly conservative. They weren't quiet about it. They were very loud about it. And I think there's been kind of a rebranding, like a soft, progressive rebranding. Like, yeah, it's conservative OC, but we're very progressive and we love queer people. I think that has been very, like, overall. And I think having Heather share her story, and even Alexis has not been shown to be, like, calm at all in anything.

And they showed her in this episode, like, talking about her child. And it gave her, like, some softness, you know? And I think it's just like, okay, these women might be terrible, but it's like you said, they're great mothers and they're supporting their trans children, you know, which I love to see as well, because I like the juxtaposition of that, you know, of like being in a place like the OC and being like a very supportive, like, parent to your queer kids. Yeah, totally. And it's, I think one of the things that reality TV does great is the fact that you're

able to show that people aren't like one-dimensional or two-dimensional, like, characters. There's nuance to them. It's not just, you know, this or that. You're not a good guy or a bad guy. So being able to show that there's kind of more nuance there, I think, is, you know, it's nice to see. Yeah. And if they are trying to make it pull like a little bit more liberal, I like that they're doing it in a very Ose way by being like, we're going to the wine tasting session hosted by Jim Oberfeld, the guy from,

the Supreme Court case. Like, that's, that, that, I, I, I, I, I could, when he showed up, I was like, oh, that's the guy. It's like, it's like, it's like meeting like Roe or Snopes or the state of Missouri. It's like, it's the dude from the case. Dylan, did you have any quotes that stuck out to you? Um, I, you know what? I don't think I really noted down any quotes, uh, honestly.

Oh, I did note down Gina saying that she wants a massage from, the bottom up. Was she saying that she was constipated? Is that what she was saying? Or is that? I think there was a flashback right before to her like falling. So I think it was something about her legs. But again, I thought she was having stomach troubles of some kind because she seemed to be like cradling her stomach when she was saying that. And I was trying to decipher that. But yeah, I guess it wouldn't make sense. If she was constipated, she'd probably want her massage from the top down like a like a tube of toothpaste. But I don't. So I'm not sure.

But otherwise, I don't really have any quotes noted, I don't think. Yeah, I was, actually, no, I do have two down here. So when Emily was asked what her favorite scent was, she said tacos. Oh, right. Classic. You know, this got a laugh out of me. It felt like a little bit, like, calculated and pre-planned. Like, she's, like, really, like, trying to go for something here.

I know. That was like her tagline last season was like, oh, like tacos or something. Yeah. But it's still got. I thought it got a laugh for me. So I like that. It is great. I also like, yeah.

I mean, that is the kind of thing. If I'm going to try to think of like one of the sense that like makes me most like feel happy, that's that's the kind of thing that would be tied to list, honestly. Yeah. I also really enjoyed Gina's read on the red carpet debut, like the term red carpet debut. I thought that that was really good. Yeah. So funny. So funny, actually.

How about strategy? Carson, anything. stand out to you in terms of the strategy? I mean, Tamara's strategy of like, oh, shit, I'm the villain. Let me, like, put Gina in there. Like, I think she finally clocked it because we're almost midseason right with OC. I think she clocked it. Like, oh, there's no villain.

It's me. Let me put Gina in the middle. And I also think Gina is Tamara sees her as the weak link. Even though she's not really anymore, she kind of, Tamara still views her as that, like, second season. And I'm like, she's a lot more season, though. And I think it was just clear when she was like, you know, oh, let me just, I think it's all Gina's fault when they were all talking. So that, that really stuck out to me.

Yeah, that's, that's interesting because I think that you're right, that is like one of the most interesting things. And I'm, I'm curious with the motivation here as to whether or not Tamara, like you said, sees Gina as a weak link or if she sees her as strong enough to withstand and like, you know, carry the ball here. Like if she sees Gina as not necessarily someone that is going to like maybe read the fact that she's getting put into the villain position, but at least be able to kind of like run with the conflict because I feel like it seems she is handling this with a bit more like respect for Gina's ability to play the host wife game than she did with her conflict with Jen

last season whereas with Jen last season she really saw her as you know as meat for the grinder and really like was just kind of bulldozing her and you know totally on the attack whereas with Gina here it's kind of more about like slipping this this in and trying to subtly move things like there's a more subtlety to it. So I wonder what her view of Gina is in terms of her like skill and ability to to play this game. Dylan, how about how about you for strategy? What's it out to you? Well, I feel like one of the obvious things is Gina pretending to slip up about mentioning

the video thing. That was that was a funny bit of her very intentionally dropping it into conversation and being like, oh my God, did that just come out of my mouth? Did I just say the video thing? Now everybody's talking about it, I feel so bad. about this thing that I planned to do. The way she did it was good, though. It worked like not for a second was Shadden like, how dare you?

Like Shadden completely was just accepted it as like, oh, no, no, don't feel bad. This had to come out. I'm glad it came out. So it worked out well. And I also think for Shadden, even though she was like coming off as so vulnerable for this whole episode, she did show a bit of good strategic thinking near the end when she gets, gets Heather aside and shows Heather this picture of her and tells her how she sent this very vulnerable picture to John right after the accident and never got a reply.

The fact that like I mentioned earlier, Heather seems to be kind of cautiously cozying up to Alexis. I think Shannon is very aware of that. And it's a good play of Shannon to maybe take advantage of the fact that Heather doesn't want to be a villain to make a play. play for her sympathies. And I thought that was a smart move from Shannon to not just kind of roll over on that moment, but still like showing that she has a strategic head about her and, uh, and try to claw back, uh, Heather from getting too close to Alexis by playing at her sympathies.

Yeah, totally. That's, that's a good point. I think like, I, I don't off, I think we've mentioned this quite a bit, but like Shannon is not someone that comes across as particularly strategic. She's a fantastic housewife, but not for the reason that she's like a puppet master. She's, you know, a very like a bowl in a china shop and is able to like just cause destruction in her wake and not really understand why. Yeah. So to see her like pull Heather aside, I think it was the right strategic choice. I don't think she's thinking strategy. I feel like she's like playing from the heart like she always does. But yeah, I think that that is really interesting to see how this is going to play out in terms of the dynamic socially here.

Let's get into our highlights. Carson, what highlights do you have? Emily's saying measurement. Like, when I heard that, I found that to be so funny. And she was like, it's an Ohio thing. And I was like, no, it's not. No, it's not. It is not.

Like, I'm from, you know, the Midwest as well. I've never heard anyone say that. And I just want to back up to Heather too like packing Because I just think we got a lot of Heather's like overall personality Not just in like yes she packed with paper But the way she wanted to talk about it

Almost like it was an art form I really like was like Oh this is who this woman is And even if all her money went away I still think she might be like this in her own way You know? Yeah totally And I

And I think Heather, what she brings to OC is like, she brings, she like, they don't have the Uber Rich, you know, on OC like we do on the other shows. You know, we don't get, like, we have on Beverly Hills or New Jersey with just like the extravagance. And her extravagance is almost so peculiar, peculiar, which is more interesting to me. Yeah, totally. She comes across as like way more eccentric in this cast, you know, because of the relative comparison in terms of their wealth than she would on something like Beverly Hills. So yeah, she definitely brings a lot there. Do you guys, what's your opinions about her eventually, like if she were to move to Beverly Hills? Do you prefer her on OC?

Would you like to see her with like the Beverly Hills women? I think that she like brings more to the OC than she could. on Beverly Hills. Yeah, like I said, just having her as, you know, being heads and shoulders above where the rest of them are in terms of wealth. And I think that that adds a lot of complexity here. Whereas, you know, just like being more baseline in the Beverly Hills cast, I think it makes her a little less interesting.

But yeah, no, that's. that's a good question. What do you think? I, I kind of would like to see her in Beverly Hills, maybe eventually, because she is kind of more rigid and, like, conservative in a way. Like, and I would, she kind of, it reminds me of like Adrian Maloof, you know, that type of like old money. You know, in Beverly Hills, I think now, I mean, we'll see with this new season. And, but I do agree with you in other ways of like she, what she brings to O.C. is so unique. And it's like among like Dorete and Kyle and Sutton, Heather's not rich, you know, she's just

like and I would like to see her though in both. And I like now that they're, ever since the ultimate girl strips happen, it seems like they're more willing to do the crossovers, you know, like we'll see Tamara, you know, I would like to see Taylor back in O.C. Like I kind of think, you know, I really like that kind of missing place. And yeah, it is two hours apart. You know, it's not far, you know, OC and LA. So I like the crossover between.

Totally. What about you, Dylan? I like having Heather there. I do like that there is like big wealth disparities. I think that's something that's an added value to me. I like that it becomes a theme that there are people from different wealth stratas that have to interact because then it becomes a subject that can't be ignored. So I like having somebody like Heather who is clearly wealthier than everybody else and also having somebody like Jen who's just drowning in debts. I think that it becomes

it becomes part of the storyline and it's just another texture. Yeah, totally. Okay, let's talk highlights. Carson, do you want to get us started with highlights? Did we just do highlights? Oh, yeah, we did. Okay. Are you drunk? Somebody's got to pay attention.

You know what? Yeah, let's let's sorry. You know what? You're a drunk. Let me say this. I'm glad. Every time we see Ryan, I'm happy to see Ryan. Even we get a little tiny bit of him. I find really funny. I love that. Just in the tiny snippets we get. He's like showing up for a meeting with a lawyer wearing some ridiculous like bowling alley shirt over a long sleeve shirt. It's it's it just it's just reaffirming my

opinion that this is a guy who's just like a permanent like 14 year old and um which I think is why every time Jen's talks to his reaction is always some version of yeah and we get to have sex. Isn't that great? Yeah. He's just he's really funny and even in smaller. is. I appreciate his presence. A weird guy. I also just talking about like the whole wine tasting thing, I always enjoy the fiction of celebrities or pseudo-celebrities like crafting branded products and just like the way that we're just supposed to pretend that they were like involved in the creation of a product and that we're supposed to like believe the idea that Heather like somehow made these sparkling

wines over the course of however long it takes to make a sparkling wine, you know, a couple years or whatever. So that each flavor represents one of her children. Like, we're just supposed to believe that that she was like somehow involved in it and being like, are you using like, you know, sherry barrels to age this?

Because I think this should be like fresh oak barrels or it's not going to taste like my kid. This is supposed to make sense somehow. It's always really fun to me. I like that silly game. Yeah, totally. One thing that we haven't touched on yet is the info drop of Shannon's, like, offhanded comment about John Jansen's shoes, which as soon as they get on the private plane, there's like this comment that Shannon makes on her breath about John Jansen wearing shoes in this photo that's being posted with Alexis, that she bought these, these shoes.

And she's, she kind of mutters it. and immediately it blows up in the plane on her. Like that's just so characteristic of how Shannon operates. Like she's not thinking about things strategically. And she, of course, this is going to blow up. She probably didn't expect it to blow up immediately. I mean, I don't think she was thinking at all when she said it. But yeah, I love that.

Do you really think that's not at all strategic, though? Like, it is kind of the, it is a piece of information that helps her. and by delivering it in that way, it makes it look like it just slipped out rather than her being like, oh, this is me trying to kick back and get my side of the story out. She can like by muttering it out,

she can have that information that helps her come out without it looking as though it was intentional at her part. There might be a little more, a little more strategic cogs working there than you think, I think. Yeah, that could be. I also do like that we get,

I think if I'm, not mistaken, we have Emily recreating Shannon muttering. Oh, yeah. That was so good. She did it in a very Shannon way, being like, there's a little recreation of how she mutters information.

And then, of course, Tamara immediately being like, oh, wait, that information hasn't made it to the other side of the plane yet. Hey, guys. It's just making sure that everybody knows it. Another highlight that I had was the transition that we had, after the scene with the De Browse where we get the transition from Terry's face to the moon.

Yeah, just an iris in on Terry's face that dissolves into the moon. Who cooked up that? I love that. I love that. I kept going back and replaying it because it was so funny to me because it was just like, ah, you know. Yeah, it was very like old Hollywood. and I like it was it felt like the editors I don't know if they were calling out the fact that his like post-surgery face is very like man in the moon or if it was like you know they're so wrapped up in like trying to be in this Hollywood game that that's like old old Hollywood I don't know it was the blend of all of it was just it was it was just visually funny it was like conceptually funny I love it yeah I don't know if it made me think of old Hollywood but it made me think of old Hollywood but it made me think of aliens where Cameron throws in a bizarre, like, crossfade between Sogernie Weaver's sleeping

head and, like, the earth. It was very similar to that to be. Let's talk about our stars from this episode. Carson, who are your stars? Shannon. Shannon's by number one. Shannon, her, like, whether she's intentional, strategic, all the stuff we talked about, she carries the episode. She's, like, vulnerable. She's messy. she's just like there she's like soaking wet in her like emotions and it really really carries it for me but number two would be Gina because I think she's like coming in with the assist like her pretend not to drop but she totally dropped it like she knows that it has to come out this episode you know it just it needs to move the story forward but I also you know I like Tamara in this episode as well because

I thought she also, one step below Gina was like throwing more assists and moving it forward in these two groups. Yeah. And it was in a way where Tamara sometimes feels, I don't, she always feels very produced to me. Like she's always thinking about like what's next. And she's, you can see like all the things coming off too much. This one felt a little less to do. And it was like, okay, like I loved her yelling across the plane.

Like that was like that's where I like you Tamara Like that's where it's my favorite Yeah I like this is like the impatience of it Like this information's gonna filter through soon She's like let's just do it now Let's get it done with Yeah

Dylan how about you Mine's gonna be very similar I do have to give shout out in the first star This was I think her episode Yeah because it was just Yeah Her mopiness her vulnerability And but her also

managing information at the same time. She was really, really the focus here. So it's, it's got to be, it's got to be her first star. It's her episode.

Yeah, I do think, I do think I probably have to give Gene to the second star too because kind of the same reasons you said. She is like the one who's managing information here. She's dealing also with the fact

that she's been kind of slightly boxed out by Heather because of her relationship with Katie and ends up in the wrong end of the plane. But she's thinking about a lot of things here. I think she's trying to plan her way forward. And that's really interesting to watch too. Also interesting to watch her fashion choices this season.

I feel like she swapped out the denim from last season with metallic surfaces. She's very into dressing like a firefighter from space in the future this season. Not sure it works for me, but I like the boldness of it. And third star, I'll give it to teach the guy host in the world. rush. We didn't get too much of him, but Teach had good energy and a good name. So, shout out to teach. Expertly portrayed by David Cross.

It was fantastic. David Cross, I was tried. Yeah, I could see that. I was thinking maybe like Richard Kind was kind of the guy who would play him. But I welcome present in any event. Yeah. Paul Giamatti could do that. He could do a great teach.

Oh, yes. He's got a teach in him. Yeah. I want to see Paul Giamati make an appearance in the Housewives universe. That would be awesome. Yeah, I think that you guys covered the stars for me. I think number one for Shannon. Carson, I love the way that you describe her as soaking wet in her feelings because, yeah,

that's a perfect description of what we got here. Like, you could, you needed to towel off after that. And Gina, number two, for sure, the way she's hen. like handling information. She's got a new dog. She's bandaging her situation with, with Travis by getting another dog to, to fill her house.

I, um, I think that this is actually a pretty compelling storyline for Gina. We, we didn't see a lot of it here, just this new piece of information about getting a dog. But, um,

what she's going through with Travis, it does feel authentic. And I think like, she's having to make hard decisions in this journey, uh, like for what's best for her, her kids. and yeah, I mean, I'm a huge Gina fan, so I love to see this.

And then number three is also Teach, if we weren't going to talk, if you didn't bring him up, I needed to bring him up because he did have a really great on-camera presence. I think that about does it, do either of you guys have anything you want to go back on on Orange County? Yeah, I'm good. I'm rolling, baby. All right. Well, thank you so much for doing this, Carson. Do you want to let everyone know about your podcast?

Yeah. So I have a weekly Bravo podcast. We have new episodes every Tuesday, but the last episode of the month is always book club. I read a memoir with my grandma who does not watch Bravo. And we talk about it this month. We're doing What Remains by Carol Ratswell, really, really loving it. Some past ones, we've done Craig's Pillow Talk. We've done Pursuit of Portia.

So I always hype up those episodes because they're my favorite. Dylan, do you want to let everyone know where they can find you? Yeah, you can find some of my writing about movies on Substack. My name is Dylan Ferguson. It's just under my name. I haven't really been active this summer, but I should be doing some stuff again pretty soon. Awesome.

I'm Craig Midwinter. You can just find us manning our social media accounts on Instagram and TikTok at Bravo Outsider. Be sure to like and subscribe to us on YouTube or your podcast platform of choice. And tell your friends about us. That's the best way to get the word out if you're enjoying our discussion here. Leave a comment. We'll try to get back to you if we can. Until next week, keep on wiping. Bring the red guy back. Bring the red guy back, baby. Let's get her. That's my new friend.