Oscars Outsider - Real Housewives of Salt Lake City S05E01 & Real Housewives of Orange County S18E10 Recap/Analysis

Episode Date: September 24, 2024

This week we're joined by comedian Benji Rothman and we're diving into the latest episode of Real Housewives of Orange County as well as the season 5 premiere of Real Housewives of Salt Lake City. If you enjoyed this breakdown, don’t forget to hit the like button, comment below your favorite moment, and subscribe for more Bravo content!Sorry, I know the production quality is rough on this one. Audio from my mic was really bad and most of the time I could allocate to editing this week was spent just trying to getting the audio cleaned up to this point Chapters: 00:00 - Intro00:41 - Real Housewives of Salt Lake City S05E01 Recap32:41 - Real Housewives of Orange County S18E10 Recap59:10 - Outro 🥂 About Bravo Outsider The Bravo Outsider Podcast offers an outside perspective on Bravo shows like The Real Housewives, unlike any other Bravo podcast! We focus on the artistic value of these shows while providing strategic analysis of the social game at the core of the Bravo docu-soap. We love thick literary references and diving into themes before diving into the drama! 🍸Featured Bravolebs: Real Housewives of Orange County: Tamra Judge, Heather Dubrow, Shannon Storms Beador, Gina Kirschenheiter, Emily Simpson, Jennifer Pedranti, Katie Ginella, Vicki Gunvalson, Alexis Bellino Real Housewives of Salt Lake City: Heather Gay, Lisa Barlow, Meredith Marks, Angie Katsanevas, Mary Cosby, Bronwyn Newport, Britani Bateman, Meili Workman 📣 Stay Connected: Find Bravo Outsider: On your podcast platform of choice: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/bravo-outsider/ Instagram: ⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/bravooutsider TikTok: ⁠⁠https://www.tiktok.com/@bravooutsider https://www.bravooutsider.com Find Benji Rothman: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/iphonebenj/ LinkTr.ee: https://linktr.ee/benr24New album "Comedy for Hot People" releases October 2024 Find Sandra Klowak: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/corporealcurios/ 📖 Credits Music by FASSounds from Pixabay #RHOSLC #RHOC #bravo #realitytv #RealHousewives

Hello and welcome to the Bravo Outsider Podcast. I'm your host Craig Midwinter. Got a great show today because we are going to be talking about the premiere of Real Housewives of Salt Lake City, season five, and it was amazing. But we're also going to talk about the most recent episode of Real Housewives of Orange County. Dylan is out today, so I'm joined by our guest co-host, Sandra Cloak. And we are very pleased to be joined by our guest, Benji Rothman. I'd rather live a short life with a good tan than a long life being pale. That's good.

We're going to be talking about Real Housewives of Salt Lake City and Orange County. All right, let's get into Real Housewives of Salt Lake City. Benji, you want to tell us what happened in this episode? Yeah, we had the Bezos party. Lisa's Valentine's Day, Bezos party. Which, like, who throws a Valentine's Day party, first of all? like that's wild and then just for women only it's crazy but interesting i guess i don't know yeah i guess it was the season premiere so we kind of got some some kind of fresh intros for other ladies

i'm not sure if we got introduced any any like new new characters we did we definitely did yeah yeah Bronwyn is is brand new and then there was a couple friends of that kind of got tees we saw brittany working pretty hard there as well yeah yeah Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so is that unfolded? Yeah, there was some big time drama at the end of the Valentine's Day party. Yeah, between the host and her esteemed guest. Yeah, and what do you think the number one question that the audience has coming out at the end of this episode? Yeah, number one question. I mean, the tagline of the episode, which I'm not sure if you notice, but I think it's a good question. Is it costume or is it couture? I mean, you know? It's really, I suppose it's in the eye of the beholder, but yeah, you show up in a big furry outfit.

I think is it a costume? Is it a fair question? I don't know. It read fashion to me more than Couture, but I am like almost always in a t-shirt that I got for free from work that they sent me. So maybe not the right person to make that judgment. That would have been perfect at the page. Yeah, that's true.

Sandy, how did it read to you? The heart thing? Yeah. Man, I wouldn't have called it a costume unless I wanted to be like an actual housewife next season like Britney May. But I'm looking forward to Bronwyn's outfits. She reminds me of Chanel Ayan on Dubai, just having the most wild outcome. They're kind of costumes. Come on.

But whatever they are, they're amazing to watch. They're a feast for the eyes. They're a truly like separate addition of value to these shows, I find. My five-year-old comes in and she always says, oh, what she's wearing? Oh, my God. Like just to all these women. And I love, so I'm looking forward to what Bronwyn has to bring, whether I think it's silly is beyond. Yeah.

I agree. I think that, you know, having these housewives that make bold choices really adds a lot to the, to the fun of it. I think, you know, Chanel is a great example. Erica Jane was like that when she had the money to do it. Dorit is doing that as well. Durit has some like swings and some misses, but I think overall it's interesting. And I also, I think that Gina also tries to take swings every now and then. And it doesn't necessarily always land, but we're seeing it a little bit in the confessional looks this season.

I have to say, I like it. It's not to the extent. It doesn't have the high, like, budget of some of these other looks. But I don't know, I like it. I like a swing. It's a swing. You're right. I have one more question.

Oh, go ahead. Yeah. Sorry. No, you go ahead. Then I'll ask my question. I was just going to say my burning question. Was that what you were going to say? You have another question?

I have an additional burning question, but it was probably going to be different in here. You go first. You go first. And if it's not already talked about it, I'll say money. My burning question, which I think the audience is probably wondering to you, can you really get a yeast infection from sitting in a bath? Oh, that is a question. I never heard that. I didn't know that was a thing.

I don't personally, I'm with her. I don't take baths. Not for that reason, but, you know, just, you know, other reasons in general. But something I didn't think of. It depends on whose bath bombs you use. True. Or who you share a bath with? I don't know.

I've never heard that either. but I get the general grossness of the bath concept. That's a good one. If you're putting, you're putting bread in your purse, you're going to get bread in your purse. Bring it into the bag. Can't be soaking in that.

All right. Wait, wait, wait. Oh, yeah, you had another question. My question is this. Did Angie make this scroll herself or buy it somewhere? Because we had a whole, like, someone layered out the stacks you have to go. And I want to know if she did that or if she bought it somewhere,

which would be, like, equally as hard to find. Anyway, that's mine. It looked like it was handmade. I thought it was handmade. Is that an insult? No, that's praise. Yeah. She works hard. As Mary said, she's a hard worker. I can't believe we still have Mary. She's so amazing and I did not think she last all these seasons. Coming back as a friend of was the best thing that happened to her because that is the perfect role for her. She doesn't need to engage at the level that it would require in order to be a full-time housewife. But, you know, seeing her at all these parties at that, like, level that she brings, I think is fantastic. It's, it's awesome. She's one of the best friend of

that is currently on there, maybe the, the best friend of right now. Let's talk about the artistic presentation here. Benji, what's it out to you? Certainly, like, the intro of the season. I'm not sure this is how they introduce all the seasons. But yeah, definitely some pretty innovative production work and camera work. They're, you know, kind of floating through people. Some certainly more interesting shots you're up in the mountains. You kind of get the feel of, oh, this is, you're in Utah. Yeah.

And really kind of getting a peek through people's lives. This was, yeah, some pretty high-level production there. Yeah, totally. I love this. I thought that it was really effective, having this almost like this irreversible. stuff you've ever seen that movie where there's this like fluid kind of meandering camera that with like almost unbroken no visible breaks in the shot and kind of going through all their lives I really loved it because I think one of the things that happened at the end of last season was

there was this big question about how real are the real housewives and you know monica this fan turned like spy that infiltrated this this group and is trying to like call out all these women being baked and whatnot. I think having production answer this by wandering through their daily lives with this monologue about, you know, how much they put out there. I thought was a really good way of maybe not giving us like a full on answer to that, like something that we like that takes away the question from us. But it did give us like a little bit of a reset, like a,

Like it reset the world. We got to see the lay of the land and all of these, all of these families and all these women going about their, their daily lives. And it really brought us back into this, this world, right back into the narrative world of Real Housewives. And I thought it was really effective.

It was visually, really intriguing. And, you know, tonally, the way that they are kind of treating Utah with this, like, with the Mormon church kind of lurking in the background, we got like the bell,

tolling and, you know, the choir accenting things. I just really love the treatment that we get of this show overall. So, yeah, I love that as well. Yeah, and then even just like the final tagline. I was just going to say with the intro, like more to your point, like just the final tagline that we get, we remember what connects us and pray it won't happen again. It does give you that little tangent of, oh yeah, there's a religious aspect to this show, to this version of these housewives that you might.

not get with some of the other cities that you deal with. Yeah, totally. Sandy, anything stand out to you in terms of the presentation here? Yeah, I mean, kind of building on the conversation when we start with a wide shot that shows, I mean, I think we all are pretty aware that it's a green screen of their homes by now in their, in their confessional's, but exactly as you're saying, it was a huge, just like being honest about the meta-ness of how reality TV has evolved into this thing that is about itself. and that was just a really good visual way to indicate, we all know this and we're doing it,

we're going forward anyway and we're seeing what happened. So I like that, how they started off with that for at least everyone or a bunch of people leaning into that self-awareness of that. Obviously, the drama of the music and, you know, the camera work, as you already described, was pretty hard to. Hard to ignore. I love it. We talked last season about the final episode and how they really leaned into this Shakespearean Macbeth style witch's circle vibe with the, you know, the storm and the wind and gray, you know, color themes and standing in a circle on the beach. And they had, they literally had them stand in a circle and saw them from above. It was so occult-like, right?

It was so striking. I love how they're just hamming it up and going all the way on on those themes of the witchiness. And especially because there's a huge juxtaposition about the religious setting. And so it goes back to our previous discussions of sense of place and why why I love this franchise so much is because it really does sit in the place, right? It's not that, I mean, of course, the looming churches is always sort of a backdrop of the history of these women, even if they've broken away from it. But how they're using it artistically in all these establishing shots, we see the juxtaposition of these buildings that are religious and so many nature shots that could be seen as. like the witchy wild sort of alter you know opposite of that and I really liked how they were

juxtaposing those two things and yeah as well as just the dark on white a lot of the women had really dark outfits dark hair against snow it was just this really intense dramatic contrast that I really really enjoyed so just a lot of that kind of stuff yeah Salt Lake City is bringing the heat visually, I think. I want to talk a little bit about the structure of this episode, which I really liked. I love how the framing narrative for this entire episode was like the party at the ranch. It all basically took place at the ranch with the exception of flashbacks that we got. It was, it opens with like 45 minutes before Lisa's party and it ends when Whitney exits. And everything else that we see is framed as, you know, someone talking about something that happened or we're getting like a little bit of a, like an intro.

But it's all like framed within within this ranch. And I really loved it. I love how we got everyone's arrival to this party used in order to give their, their backstory here. It reminded me a lot of like a who done it. And whenever someone entered, we got them, you know, giving. just a little update on what they've been doing or an intro to how they are related to the group, if they're a new character. And I just really loved that we have this really strong framing narrative, which we don't see a lot of on these shows.

Usually, you know, it's going, an episode is going to take place over multiple, like, locations. And people are all in separate places, whereas this was all very much grounded. and I just thought that that was a really strong choice to introduce everyone in that way and set things up that way. Yeah, I agree with that. Yeah, go ahead. No, I was going to say, were there any quotes that stood out to you, Benji? Yeah, I mean, definitely, like, the first bit of drama we got that kind of kicked off

with trying of being a super dramatic episode was, I love your costume, which is Britney's quote. So I ruffled some feathers, literally and figuratively. Really kicked things off. So yeah, that was a big one for me. Like I said, the quote at the end of the intro I love, I don't know if they do that every season. We remember what connects us and pray it won't happen again, I think, is a great summation of,

and like a hilarious quote. Yeah. You just pray that, like, bad things won't happen again. It's pretty funny. It's like that. I'll do it. Yeah, I like that. And then, yeah, I'll get to the scroll in a minute

because I feel like that once we start talking about strategy and things like that. But yeah, there's some quotes there that I enjoy it. Yeah. Well, let's get into it right now then. In terms of strategy, you brought up the scroll. What's it out to you about that strategically? I get it to a reality show, whatever.

But if you have a beef with someone that you really actually want to take care of, you don't do that publicly. And what she's trying to do is like, oh, I'm going to call out my friend here because she's a huge bitch. But then you do something like that. And then you're the asshole. Immediately when you put that much thought into this thing, clearly it's been bothering you more than it has been her. You put that much thought into it.

So you did some arts and crafts at home for a long time and did this big dramatic thing. It's like you just immediately make yourself the asshole, you know? Yeah. And like if I was, and who's she calling up? What was her name? Meredith. Meredith.

Yeah, if I'm Meredith, like, yeah, I know this isn't, this isn't very housewifey strategy. but I would have taken the high road there and just been like, you know what, Angie, you're right, I'm sorry, I've done some bad things here in the past and I do apologize. And then she just left standing there with the scroll, like, you know. That is a good idea. Right. Yeah, I think that Meredith Marks lacks the skills to diffuse a situation, though.

She is such a reactive person. Like, that's what makes her a great host one. the fact that she is going to have some sort of like off put reaction to any situation she is so like angie picked exactly the right person to bring this this scroll to i thought i i love this i love having a physical like prop as a piece of of strategy like yeah i i i love it i think that angie is such a fantastic addition to this cast she was definitely overshadowed last season by Monica being such a really like compelling story that that we got. But like Angie did so much work last season just her overall persona. She's always in these over the top like sunglasses. She's,

you know, she brought props to the the Palm Springs trip that she wasn't invited on and just showed up on. I think she's like just got the instincts down to how to like make an impact here. And she's she's a fantastic host wife. Love it. Do you, Craig, I was, so I love it too. I love it. It's amazing. I thought it, one thing I thought was really funny about how Angie did this was she kind of like got in line behind, uh, Whitney. Now, I know Meredith started the fight with Whitney and that's its own topic, but Whitney kind of turned the tables on Meredith and really started like giving it to her and which was awesome. And then, and then, and then Andrew just kind of like jumped in was like, I also have something I'd like to tell you. And it, it,

It read a little to me like lack of sophistication or like nerves on how she was going to bring this up. I think overall you can't go wrong with a prop for making a splash. But do you think she lacks sophistication in her delivery or do you think her style is just its own type of sophistication? Yeah, I think she does lack sophistication and I think that that's okay. So yeah, like I think that her own style is maybe unsophisticated, but I think that that is, that is fine. She's able to do that. Like, I think the way that Meredith Marx operates is not really sophisticated either, but she just is able to, like, react to things that are going on. She's able to make herself, like, the center of drama without, like, coming across as necessarily

being self-centered, Meredith, I mean. So I think that, like, the way that you operate strategically doesn't necessarily have to be really sophisticated. And I think that, When you do have a sophisticated approach, sometimes you just don't get the recognition for it. I think Whitney is a great example of having a very sophisticated approach to how she navigates situations socially. But you never hear her name come up in the conversation of great housewives. Same with Gina is another person that I just really love the way they navigate the social situations and the way that they kind of see the playing field. and, you know, they don't get the recognition for it.

So, yeah, I think that it's fine to be unsophisticated in how you navigate it as long as it's interesting or compelling in some way. And Angie is definitely, definitely that. Did you have any other strategic decisions that you want to talk about, Benji? Yeah, Whitney. She's the one that was on the podcast, right? Yeah. I mean, she's just full of just lies and like, just defense mechanisms just constantly.

Like, yeah, she had a lot of things getting thrown her way at the end there. Just like crazy. That's actually another cinematic piece that I enjoyed too, that it's just like, you could really just feel her just getting swallowed out by all these accusations, to which she was deflecting every single one of them. And like, actually, like, she didn't really crumble there. like she didn't break down at all she she stood pretty strong um but yeah there's no way that every single one of those is bullshit like at least half of them were probably true oh yeah

for sure yeah but i feel like Whitney is is as she said this is Hilled Whitney and she's like not taking any shit I feel like that's different do you agree Craig I mean she she had her moments where she'd fight back but I feel like this is a different vibe just in this episode yeah I I think that she came across as being a little, like a bit more, I don't want to say active, but like she was a bit more on the, like, the offense when she was confronted with things. Like I feel like, like you said, usually she'll kind of see what's going on, take it in, and then kind of respond in a more subtle way. But here she was a little bit more in your face about it.

I am curious to see how that kind of plays out for her because, like I said, I do think that she has been a great housewife ever since she has been on the show and being able to kind of work in the shadows a little bit to navigate things. I think that one thing that was really interesting about how she handled this was when she kind of let it slip that she heard what Lisa was talking about last week. It was definitely intentional in order to rope Angie in. And I just thought it was a perfect moment to really create that divide between Angie and Lisa, who have had an otherwise pretty good relationship. So to choose that and say, yeah, well, I've heard all the, you know, I could talk about all the things that I've heard you saying about me this past week. Like, that is a very specific thing to let slip. You know that that is referring to something specific that Lisa is going to latch on to.

And then Lisa's like, wait, there's only two possible people. Like who is the mole here? And it immediately created a divide that Angie is not going to have the space in order to navigate this situation and stay on side with Lisa. So it forces her into Whitney's corner. And I just thought it was a really like good choice to kind of, you know, force someone in onto her side so that she's not there on her own. And when all those accusations, we got that beautiful like moment where all those like accusations are piling on. on Whitney, like she's able to say, hey, this is a pylon, pull the ripcord and walk out, and Angie goes with her.

I thought that, you know, she created that safety net real fast and was able to use it. And I, yeah, I thought it was really smart. A great example of her just being a really smart hostwife in terms of gameplay. Yeah, I'm not sure. It didn't strike me at the time. I wasn't sure if that was a genuine slip-up. and she, or if that was intentional, like you're saying, which if it was, yeah, smart move. Yeah, I think I'm like, I guess 90% confident that this was intentional just because

this is the sort of thing that happens really consistently on all these shows, but also the way that she phrased it was very specific, like referring to a very specific conversation. It's not a way that people will just casually, like, talk about things. It's not like, well, I could talk about all the things that you've been saying about me versus I could talk about all the things I've heard you were saying this past week is very, like, specifically referencing a situation. And it seems like she had to go out of her way in order to invoke that conversation. So I am 90% confident it was a legitimate throwing that in there and tried to, like, frame it as a slip as opposed to it just being slip. Sandy, did you have any other strategic decisions that you wanted to discuss? I liked Lisa's intro speech to her party,

just dropping a quick hit on Whitney and podcasts. I just kind of just throwing that in there to get things going. And then obviously it was followed up with at dinner, which is nice. Maybe not the most eloquent party speech, but it did the job. So that was good. Yeah, that's about all for them. What do you think of? about this beef between Lisa and Whitney.

Like, do you think that this, you know, this offhanded comment that Lisa's always been the villain is enough of a foundation for a blowout bite that is going to sustain itself for multiple episodes? I mean, if a bath bomb can be, then that certainly can. Yeah, that's true. Speaking of the bath bombs and strategic decisions, the idea of launching a product as like a strategic choice in order to create a beef on the show is really funny to me. Yeah, I love how she's like shocked that Meredith is upset when it's literally referencing that she's gross. It was designed to upset Meredith going through the whole like product design process just for this.

And then like it's so crazy. But it's clearly what happened. And for Meredith to, like, come out and accuse her at that, it comes across as crazy. It's like, it's foundation in order to gaslight Meredith into thinking that she is, like, crazy for thinking that Whitney would go through all this effort in order to just piss Meredith off. But that's definitely what happened. It is. And you're right. That's pretty brilliant.

But why did Meredith, like, when Meredith brought it up, she didn't say, like, you did an entire ad, like, literally. mentioning me and our thing. Like she was just like, how could you make bath bombs when I make bath bomb? Like she didn't even go there. Okay, Google? Yeah. I don't know.

Yeah. It's crazy. I feel like Meredith went into that, not ready for what she got back. And then tagging, tagging Angie on the end, Meredith was like discombobulated, right? Like even at the end of,

so strategically, I mean, I guess Meredith, I don't know how strategic she is or if she just, you know, speaks her mind all the time. But she went in there and then, Whitney just was like, nope, and she clapped back so hard.

And Meredith even had to say, I'm just processing what you're throwing at me. She couldn't even, like, she was done. And then, and then Angie came in next in line. So I thought that was pretty interesting. It definitely seems like Whitney is ready to be on, like, to be in a defensive position and handling all of the shit that's going to be flung at her from a, like, using an offense as defense strategy. So I'm, yeah, I'm, I'm interested to see how this evolves.

I want to get into our highlights now. Benji, what highlights you have? Yeah, definitely the scroll was a big one. Yeah, I mean, the introduction of Bronman, I think, was definitely, yeah, was pretty cool. I think you could tell she's a good character, good intro to the show. Yeah, just a, yeah, a few little things here that just kind of subtly, like, I'd, I just like the shot at the end where she walks by and like there's a band at the at the party and you just like see they're all like awkwardly laughing. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. Yeah. Some little little nuances like that. I thought

were great. How about you, Sandy? I think most has been said, but I do want to come back to Brittany and her her performance. So she sits down and she says, I love your costume and then and then whatever the conversation moves to Mary and she said, well, I guess because I didn't have a lot as a kid. So, and she says, and so you became a hoarder. And that for sure comes from watching the show and knowing for a fact that she's a hoarder. So I was trying to figure out if, so great job Brittany making an impression. I could totally tell like level of sophistication wise, I guess, where she was operating here. Like after that, after Mary walked away, she said, I really offended her. and she almost sounded like sad about that but I'm like did you really say that by accident or like what do you think where do you think she was at it because she just want to make sure she got a scene like she did she did it so but where how how intentional and how did she want it to go versus how it was I think 100 I think 100% intentional I don't think that she like she knew what she was doing the the choice of being like costume was so intentional I think and then picking and choosing

ways to poke at, Mary felt really intentional to me. I mean, if you're not sure whether something is a costume or not, you would probably use the word outfit, because that's the safe way to play the situation. I think she definitely was trying there. I mean, I agree she was trying. I guess there's something about, it felt there was like a little bit of a lack of confidence, but maybe that was all part of the game. It's, there was a big, bit of an awkwardness there. I don't know that I was trying to place how that fit into it all. Like I do I agree. It was intentional, but then did she, did she get, was it just scary to do? And she still exuded a bit of awkwardness or what?

Um, I think that it's just from being like new to this. She wanted to give herself some plausible deniability and, you know, frame it as just being aloof. And, you know, if, if she needs to, she can move, move forward with them because she can play it off as being, you know, a genuine misunderstanding or whatever. She just doesn't have anything. Like she's coming in with no chips and just trying to like create something. So yeah, I think that it was giving herself a little bit of an out because she needs to play it a little bit safe.

Cool. Let's talk. Let's get into our stars here. Benji, who are your stars? Yeah. It starts with Bronwyn. Like I don't know if you kind of see like the star power on her as as a new character. Like I think she's she's going to be a huge star here.

Like she's she's hot. She's pretty. She's kind of crazy. She's got this like she's got the background that like is really interesting. She comes from Mormonism, but she was like this big party girl and got kicked out of university. She's not trying to talk about her 65 year old husband. She's not trying to call her husband. herself a trophy wife. She described herself as funny chaos, which is a great brand. She's like all

these fashion choices. Yeah, she's, she's a star right out the gate for sure. Yeah. And then just a couple other, I do like just the little cameos that we get, especially from guys. You don't see a lot of men on the show. So the men that appear and have to deal with these women is hilarious. The guy that's helping her set up the party in the beginning, Wade, it was hilarious, I thought. So very subtle character there for me. And the guys in the band, like I said, we're awesome. Oh, yeah. Sandy, how about you?

I've got to give a star to the cinematography, cinematographers, whatever the term is, the industry term for the people doing all that. Yeah. And I'm going to give another star to Bronwyn's fashion sense specifically, because I'm really looking forward to that, as I said. And the last star, I mean, I can give it to Mary because she's just a delightful. fall. Yeah, nice. I have to give a star to Whitney because she was very active this episode. And same for Angie. I think both of them really were working really hard coming out with the

gate swing. Love that. There's so many people that deserve a star here. I think I'm going to give my third as well to Bronwyn because she immediately was compelling when she came on. And yeah, I'm really curious to see how things play out. I think, you know, we didn't see her really start a lot, but we got a little bit of a sense in terms of how she's going to navigate conflict when we saw her sitting down with, with Brittany during that one scene. And then also we saw when she was trying to get Angie to stop talking about the house and just, and Angie continuing to bring up the house.

I, yeah, I, I'm curious. to see what's going to come from her. I think she could be a really good addition to this cast. One more unspoken star, the chef, my God, that beef tartar looked so great. Oh, yeah. The whole course was like a great party. Yeah, totally. Oh, I had a couple highlights that I forgot to mention.

The way that they were talking about during the fight, they used a lot of like pseudo therapy speak, which I really loved when they were talking about, you know, their healing journeys not being aligned. and who is like weaponizing who's trauma and talking about, oh, what does your grace look like? I just really love that they were using, you know, this therapy speak in order to try to get some sort of like moral high ground and be in the right. I really love that. And, yeah, that's the main one that I want to call out there. Let's dive into Real Housewives of Orange County first then. Do you want to give us a quick summary of what happened from your perspective in this episode?

Yeah, it seemed like, I mean, the biggest kind of plot point of the episode would have, I guess, been Emily's dress size. And kind of the riff that she had with Lisa, was it? Heather. With Heather, right, right, with Heather. Yeah, I mean, yeah, it seems like Emily's been doing a lot of work to kind of work on herself and slim down. and, you know, Heather, I guess, kind of threw a little wrench into that with the dress sizes. Yeah, yeah, that's definitely like the main heat that we got in this episode. There was a lot going on here in terms of not directly related to the interpersonal relationships with within the housewives,

but we got a lot of context about their family situations here that I think was one of the more interesting parts to explore for me. I'm curious, though, Benji, what question do you think most viewers are left with asking at the end of watching? this episode? I think the two biggest ones for me, I think, were like, did Heather, like, intentionally try to kind of big time Emily there with the, with the dress thing? Definitely a big kind of question that kind of we, you know, could go either way, kind of is left unanswered. And then I think the other really interesting part about the episode for me, because, you know, you don't see a ton of guys, but to Dawson, what a character. Oh, yeah. Will Dawson be better off, live in the bachelor life?

with his dad. Is he making the right decision there? So yeah, I think that'll be an interesting thing to follow. Yeah, totally. Sandy, what do you think the answer to the question? Do you think that Heather is intentionally trying to shade Emily? I know that they do have like a history of conflict between those two, but I'm curious what your thought is. I'm always interested in Heather's motivations. As we know, she's a pretty interesting character because she's got this, her motives for being on the show are complex and I'm always really interested in trying to figure out what is what is she doing. I mean, her comment saying that the dress was tight on Emily was in the confessional was pretty shady, which would lead to some nefarious, some, you know, attitudes in her,

in her court, but, and I don't know about the jeans. I don't know. I don't really, I don't have a good read on Heather, Craig, but I'm dying to know what you think. I'll tell you that. Yeah, I think when Heather is talking about like, you know, she. was not responsible for like picking out things off of the the rack and that. I think that that was like probably true. I think that Emily's got a legitimate like gripe with Heather though about just not feeling heard when she's trying to just express herself. And very quickly I think that like Emily is a very self-aware hostwife and I think that she very quickly realized that, you know, this is about me. This isn't about you. And she like expressed that but was like so overwhelmed by. emotion and I think that Heather was not really receptive to like hearing her, hearing her out or like validating her feelings in any way. So I do think that Emily does have like a legitimate beep with, with Heather over this. I thought that what was most interesting about this was how Alexis tried to insert herself into this fight. You know, she's like maybe one of the most

annoying presences that I can remember in recent memory on these shows. And so for her to like jump in there and try to make it about herself and insert herself into this this conflict, I thought it was really funny. I agreed. Love her. Yeah, she was really grasping for something there and it wasn't connecting the dots of how she was making herself upset about the whole situation. Yeah, you were not alone in that. That wasn't just a lack of context. Let's talk about the artistic presentation here. Any themes are artistic choices that stand out to you, Benji? I mean, just first of all, like, I don't think this is just really particular to this show.

I think it's particularly to a lot of reality shows. And I think just shows in general, any flashbacks, which I appreciate it as kind of a new viewer to the show, it kind of caught me up with what they're talking about. They're always in, like, kind of this duller coloring and, like, this black and white sepia tone. Yeah. Which I don't know, that's just kind of like human nature in our brains where like we just see that and we're like, because that's how we remember things in our brains or that's how we dream. We don't really dream in color or heard or whatever. So we automatically like, you know, it kind of hits us a little more clearly, oh, this is a memory, this is a flashback sort of thing, which I, you know, I appreciate that.

It does just clarify like what is going on. Yeah, yeah. It's interesting how this has kind of become a convention of the dokey soap drama to do this sort of color treatment. I really enjoyed it. And when we talk about Real Houseways with Salt Lake City especially, I think that that episode was so reliant on that as a storytelling device that, you know, it really kind of hammers in how we just kind of, we don't even need to see like a flashback card that says, you know,

two weeks ago or whatever. When we see that, that color treatment, our brain just automatically registers that this is something that is within a different narrative continuity. than, you know, whatever we saw previously. And yeah, it's a really effective storytelling device. Sandy, was there anything that stood out to you in terms of the presentation here? You know, I really tried, Craig.

I tried for you. And I got nothing. I have tons for a Salt Lake City, as I'm sure you do. This show, I only had a chance to watch it once. I was going to try to watch it again to see if I could squeeze something out. But it doesn't speak to me artistically. It's not hitting those buttons for me, so I'm going to leave it to you. Yeah, it's interesting that you call out the Salt Lake City having a lot more depth to it artistically, because I agree.

I think for sure it does. I think that Real Housewives of Orange County, and I think to an extent like Beverly Hills and a lot of the older Housewife shows are a lot more beholden to like the structure and the format of the franchise, whereas shows like Real Housewives of Salt Lake City, and maybe I shouldn't say the older shows, because like Real Housewives of New York also, I think, is able to, like, sustain its own identity and, like, make more artistic decisions that venture outside of the, like, the structure and the format that we're very familiar with. But Orange County is very, like, rigidly structured like a Real Housewife. Part of that might be that it's the, the, the prototype for these shows. Like it was the first one, but it is very like adherent to that structure,

whereas, you know, Salt Lake City, we're seeing them make all sorts of artistic decisions that defy various like conventions or just like make, make a bolder choices. I did find a theme within here that I thought was really interesting. I touched on it a little bit. I think when we got all this kind of back story about the relationships that these women have, with their children, we're seeing the effect of like divorce on all their children pretty heavily throughout this. Because like you said, we got that scene with Dawson where Jen is, you know, having a heart to heart with Dawson. And we're seeing how, you know, she's, she's trying to navigate this new landscape of like being a single parent or a, wow, or a separated

parent. And we're seeing how her, how that impacts her son. We also, got to see like the, the friend date between Tamara and Katie and their, their daughters, where they're talking, like, very honestly about how their mother's relationships with their fathers are impacting their views on, on relationships going ahead. And I, I just found it, like, really refreshing that we're getting to see this kind of discussion happen in a way that doesn't come across as, like, preaching the right way to navigate these situations. just an honest kind of like reflection on how how this is happening, not saying what's right or what's wrong, because there's no like clear cut black and white. In real life, there's no like

right or wrong clear cut way to handle this. So seeing this honest presentation about about this, the good and the bad, I thought it was, it was really interesting. And there was a choice moment that was interesting as like a point of contrast was when it was, like leading up to the GLAD Awards or at the GLAD Awards where Terry and Heather have just a little bit of an aside where they're like, I don't think our kids understand the struggle because, you know, we're such an accepting house. And they, yeah, I just thought that the way that they kind of frame the harmony within their house as a contrast to, you know, what we're seeing in the family life of these, these other women was particularly interesting. Yeah, I think it was Katie's daughter who's talking about she's not sure if she wants to get married, have kids, whatever.

Yeah, she was kind of a scene stealer there. I thought that was actually a very good perspective and actually a pretty meaningful moment of the episode there. That was, you know, pretty real. I know it's real, how it's why. I don't know how much realness there is to it, but that felt like a great real moment. Yeah, I agree with you that. That was really nice and touching. And yeah, like I said, Dawson is a very interesting part of the episode too.

I did want to mention just two more cinematic things that I appreciated. Yeah, sure. Well, first of all, like, it does seem to me, like, the outfits and the fashion is, like, kind of the main point of the show and, like, the thing that I think really captures most viewers are, like, you know, when they're coming to the party and, like, they get these slow motion shots, fashion shots out of the escalade and, like, oh, what's she wearing, you know? Yeah, kind of, it makes it clear that, oh, yeah, it makes it clear that, oh, yeah, This is like the main attraction of the show.

And there was one shot that I thought was actually really great at the party at the end before the argument about the sizes with Heather and Emily. Who's the Asian lady, Tamara? Katie. Oh, that's Katie. Yeah. Yeah, Katie, when she shows her ass, I don't know how much ass you're allowed to get away with on Bravo. But they had it. It was like the perfect amount of ass.

I felt like they figure out the maximum ass you could show on camera. They figure, oh, this is the perfect. in between these two heads of hair here, we get a little bit of ass, you know. Yeah, so I thought that was nice. For sure, someone has figured out, like, an algorithm for determining, like, how much ass they can show.

They probably got, like, a plug-in for Adobe Premiere that they can just apply to a clip, and it will blur the right amount of ass. Yeah. It was really interesting when they played that game that they had, you know, a dare, like, show your butt hole. When, you know, Heather pulled something

that was just, like, oh, bark like a dog. And can you imagine Heather pulling, show your butthole? Like, that would just never happen. It makes me wonder how real these games are, because that is definitely not a card or a block that I could see Heather, like, pulling and following through it. They told the new lady she had to show her asshole or she's off the show. Yeah.

You know the deal. What quotes stood out to you, Benji, from this episode? Definitely the biggest one would be You're a Wackadoodle I'm not sure Alexis and Emily They have some accents They don't seem like they're

They're from California They seem like they're from the Midwest Yeah Yeah When she dropped a Euro wackadoodle I can't say I've heard that one in a while Great insults I feel like it really hit home

And yeah Describe Alexis perfectly She's a wackadoodle So Yeah What were your highlights from this episode? Like I said, yeah, I like the kids. I thought they had some good insight.

And I thought that was an interesting part of the show. I thought the Glad Award is pretty funny. Like, they kept talking about Oprah and like, oh, Oprah's here. And like, was Oprah really there? I don't think so, you know. It was waiting to see Oprah. Like talking about it. Like, yeah, I'm pretty sure Oprah's not at the Glad Awards.

I don't know. That was pretty funny. Yeah, the Glad Awards is funny. She's three queer kids. that's cool. She has four kids, three queer ones, which kind of makes the fourth one, the queer one, I guess.

I don't know. That's what you're doing with. It's kind of against the norms. But yeah, yeah, overall, like a good episode. I didn't know you could get testosterone injected into your ass. Maybe that's why, like, I don't know. I second screened this for like two seconds, and then when I came back,

they're talking about Emily getting testosterone in her ass. I don't know what that does or why you, might do that. But it probably broke me from my doom scroll that was starting to take over. Do you think that's why she was so fired up at the end? Was it the testosterone that was like just pumping through her and kind of raging her out a little bit? Yeah, it could be.

Sandy, what are your highlights? Glad Awards, I noted that Heather was in, along with Meredith Marks from Salt Lake City as a real housewife and I just noted that that's got to hurt her because she is a legitimate actor and that's really like you know a storyline for her maybe not quite officially but sort of one that we've been following is her quest for a legitimate career and how that may or may not mesh with being a housewife and so I imagine that she might have liked to have been introduced as something else I'm not saying it was a shock to her in the moment but I feel like that's got to be a little bit of a knife in the gut.

Yeah, for sure. I have a quote that I really liked. Oh, yeah. What's the quote? I have a lot, but my top one was, I'm already broken. I'm already a broken bird. Done by the Wackyoodle. She gave us an amazing performance, and I'm so grateful.

And related to Alexis, Gina, I guess when she was freaking out because they're getting sued for extorting Shannon and that's making Alexis upset or whatever's happening. Gina was saying like it seems like you're just obsessed with this whole thing and you're not, you know, that's all you're talking. I don't know exactly the context, but she's like to Alexis, who you are is enough. It's way enough. Like, yes, it is way enough. It's too much already.

Don't add anything else. But do, because I love it. So Alexis is so fun. And I was kind of missing her in the earlier part. I'm like, she better get invited to some sort of event because I need to see some Alexis. So those are my main highlights. Also, I guess we got a little more understanding of what the Shannon and Vicki show is. And I didn't fully process that it involves tap dancing with the little like outfits and top hats. And I, that's not, I guess, what I was picturing.

It's a variety hour kind of vibe. I guess they had to pivot hard. Obviously, that was the point of that when Tamara quit, but I don't know if that makes me want to see it less or more. I haven't thought about it a lot, but just seeing them doing their little tap number. I don't know, what are your thoughts? Is that a draw? Is that, is that going to get the crowds out? Yeah, I mean, I was probably not going to go to this even if it, well, I don't know. I don't know if I would go see this anyway, but the, I think that if anyone can carry it on, like, Tamara was the one person that they could afford to lose. I feel like Shannon and Vicky bring so much. more like to a potential stage show like Tamara.

I love her as a housewife, but both Shannon and Vicky have an energy about them that is just a little bit more over the top. Like we've talked a lot about Shannon just having it like a natural comedic timing and just being a very like physical comedian when she's like just operating about her daily life. and Vicky obviously is like, um, has all of these iconic, like very big physical moments. So I think if any, anyone's personality is going to like translate to the stage,

it's going to be Shannon and Vicky. Tamara, not so much. Tamara, I think is like a really, really effective at playing the housewife game. She's like one of the, the people,

maybe the number one housewife that kind of created it. Like she created the meta of being able to stir the pot and play the game and the espionage that we see here. So I think she's obviously a super valuable housewife, but she's not really the person that I would to go and see a stage show. I don't know. That's just, just that's my opinion. Let's talk about strategy, though.

Benji, was there any strategic decisions here that stood out to you? Yeah, I mean, well, yeah, like Alexis, I think just having no strategy, just throwing shit to the wind. is a strategy in itself, I guess. Just be as loud as possible. It's cool. I did, like, Dawson's mom, what's her name? Jen.

Jen, yeah. Jen, like, I, honestly, I thought that, like, she handled that, that situation pretty well, you know? I mean, you can, and with, when you're dealing with, like, a teenager like that or, you know, young, young guy, it's like, you know, you can't, you know, bossing them and, like, saying, you're going to do this is, it's not always the best strategy. It's like, you know, you can offer guidance. You can offer your, and she was positive about it, too. She, she wasn't, like, you're doing this wrong. You're doing that wrong. You know, she had a bit of that, but, like, it was a lot about, like, you know, I see all this potential in you. And, and, you, you know, I just kind of reinforce her love for him and like let him make this decision, but let him know that he has her support is, I thought was really nice. Yeah, I think that she did a good job handling that situation given like the context that we know about her. Like she is, she's dug herself into such a big hole in terms of just overall how she

navigates life. Like she has really taken a backseat in her. whole life is the kind of the the view that we get of her she's just figuring out now how to pay bills and how all that works she's obviously kind of let her kid run a little like wild and just taking the easy road so to see her make some more difficult choices here i think was a way that we've seen like it was a good way to see the growth in in her character that she is undergoing so Yeah, I think that for the position that she was in, she did a good job of not trying to get out of a hole by, like, continuing to dig. So, yeah, I like that.

Where is the alimony at? Do we know what's going on there? Why is she so broke? It's still, like, in the courts. The divorce is still fresh, so they haven't really settled on anything. And I think one of the things that makes it especially difficult is, I think she said that her husband was employed. in maybe a family business or something like that. But anyways, as a result of the divorce, he also job or something happened there. So his income is not like as high as should be.

So she's quickly become pretty dependent on her new boyfriend, Ryan. At least that's as far as my understanding goes and might be as far as Jen's understanding goes as well. Sandy, what's it up to you in terms of strategy here? I guess just back to Heather, she's her strategy almost. always is don't be soft don't like you were saying here people only minimally if it's not gonna allow her to give an inch like she sort of has this guard she's always defending herself we saw with Shannon when she was like if you ever come after my family again and all of that famous quote so is that strategy working for her she

doesn't want to be a villain but she wants to be the boss I think and so is it working though. I don't know. She didn't come off right in there. That's an interesting question. Is Heather okay being a villain? Because I kind of feel like she is okay being a villain. I feel like

she is open to the idea of being a villain as long as she can create a definitive line between how she is as a person versus how she is as a character in that dynamic. Because it seems like she really tries to

self-produce all these scenes about her family. But then when she's in a group dynamic, she is very cold and closed off. And like she seems like she is okay being the bad guy in situations, as long as she is adhering to some, like whatever moral code that she has for operating the housewife meta game. Yeah, maybe you're right. Because it's like she clearly cares about her reputation and her,

you know, how she's coming across in the sense of her values, that she's supporting all. these causes and her family and diversity. So maybe that got me off the trail, because you can still be like, you can still believe all that and be like a villain in a social situation. Yeah, I'm thinking kind of in terms of the conflict between like Katie and Gina and how she's kind of navigated that. It seems like she is not choosing something that is, you know, necessarily like popular or are going to make her like this, this hero. But she's thinking more in terms of

the power structures and who she can rely on to be more of a pillar to her being the top dog. I feel like that's kind of her motivation. And that's why she was more open to forgiving Gina after Katie kind of drops this bombshell that Gina's using her for her social connections, which whether or not that's true is still TBD. But it seemed like Heather was open to, you know, continuing a relationship, Gina, if it benefited her within the social structure that she's kind of trying to manage underneath her. I think the most interesting work that we've seen in terms of strategy and this social situation is from Gina this episode. We got to see Gina go in with Shannon and really work towards maintaining that relationship. And also we saw her do good work with Emily in that conflict between Emily and Heather, making sure that Emily feels heard and stuff like that.

I feel like Gina feels very comfortable with her position with Heather, even despite the fact that Katie has been trying to erode at that. I think she sees that as not being effective. And so the fact that she was able to choose to comfort Emily in that moment and, build that relationship up because I feel like maybe that is less solid than it has been in the past. I thought that that was an interesting choice. I feel like Gina's doing a lot of groundwork here. And I just like to watch her operate because I do think that she's really great at playing that game. Yeah, she was kind of the first to come to, like, support Alexis there too.

Yeah. As like as futile as that endeavor would be. but she tried. And she also had a complex question to navigate when they were playing the shady janga about Travis's dick size, which we have all heard the rumors. Right.

Okay, let's get into our stars here because I'm very eager to talk about Real Houseways in Salt Lake City. Benji, who are your stars from this episode? Yeah, like I said, I'm a big Dawson fan. I think Dawson's cool. Katie just gets some ass points. She was great.

And yeah, that's my two biggest star. And then just, Alexis, just for the entertainment value, like, was a train wreck. And, like, that's what you want from my housewife. You don't want to see, you know, give me an A or give me an F. And that was, that was a pretty fabulous F we got there. Yeah, totally. Sandy, how about you? My top star goes to Gina's really uncomfortable-looking metallic pants.

The final party scene. And my other two stars will go to Alexis and Emily for their duo performance for us in the high drama. I think my number one star is going to go to Emily and then number two has to go to Alexis, like you said. And number three, I'm going to give it to Jen. I think the scene that we got between Jen and Dawson, like you said, it was a real emotional cornerstone here. and I spent most of the last season of Real Housewives of Orange County in our coverage talking about how shitty a housewife I thought that Jen was. I am ready to take it back.

I think that she does bring something to the show. I will admit when I am wrong. I thought that this was a good performance. We're seeing some nuance here. So I'm going to give a start to Jen. She is redeemed in my eyes. And that's all that matters. Did any of you guys have anything else you want to talk about?

with Real Housewives of Orange County before we move it on? Just as a guy, I can't tell the difference between size 12 and a size 2. It all looks kind of the same to me. You know, when they were showing the back-to-back, and size 12, she looks fine. She looks great. She's lost weight. She's doing great.

And I also don't think that Heather was wrong. It was pretty tight on her. That's not a bad thing. I don't know if she looks fine. So I still was like normal person's size, it seems like. Yeah, totally. Love it. Well, thank you so much for doing this, Benji.

Do you want to let everyone know where to find you? You've got a new comedy album coming out, right? I do. Coming out at the beginning of October, we have my comedy album. It's called Comedy for Hot People. And it's recorded just earlier this year. Really excited to release it, share it across all platforms, Spotify, Apple Music, and on my link tree, you can make some CDs.

You buy some CDs. And yeah, follow me on Instagram at iPhone Benj to be up to date with all my shows coming out. And we'll have those links in the show notes slash description. So just check below wherever you're watching or listening to this. Sandy, thank you for filling in for Dylan. He's got spotty availability over the next little bit. So I'm sure we'll have you back pretty soon. Do you want to let everyone know where they can find you?

Yes, I am at Corporial Curios on Instagram. If you want to take a look at some art made from here. Awesome. I'm Craig Midwinter. You can find our socials on Instagram and TikTok at Bravo Outsider. The main place to find us is on YouTube. You're probably watching here right now. So just hit the subscribe button, leave a comment, and we'll show up in your feed.

Until next week, keep on wiping.