Oscars Outsider - Real Housewives of Salt Lake City S05E07 & Real Housewives of New York City S15E05 Recap/Analysis

Episode Date: November 4, 2024

We want to hear your takes! Give our hotline a call and leave a message with your thoughts on what's going on in the Bravo universe at 1-833-927-0178 This week we're joined by Dan Huen, The Canadian Computer Collector and we're diving into the latest episode Real Housewives of New York City and Real Housewives of Salt Lake City. If you enjoyed this breakdown, don’t forget to hit the like button, comment below your favorite moment, and subscribe for more Bravo content! 🥂 About Bravo Outsider The Bravo Outsider Podcast offers an outside perspective on Bravo shows like The Real Housewives, unlike any other Bravo podcast! We focus on the artistic value of these shows while providing strategic analysis of the social game at the core of the Bravo docu-soap. We love thick literary references and diving into themes before diving into the drama! 🍸Featured Bravolebs: Real Housewives of New York City: Sai De Silva, Ubah Hassan, Erin Lichy, Jenna Lyons, Jessel Taank, Brynn Whitfield, Racquel Chevremont, Rebecca Minkoff Real Housewives of Salt Lake City: Heather Gay, Lisa Barlow, Meredith Marks, Angie Katsanevas, Mary Cosby, Bronwyn Newport, Britani Bateman, Meili Workman 📣 Stay Connected: Find Bravo Outsider: On your podcast platform of choice: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/bravo-outsider/ Instagram: ⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/bravooutsider TikTok: ⁠⁠https://www.tiktok.com/@bravooutsider https://www.bravooutsider.com Find Dylan Ferguson: Substack: https://dylanferguson.substack.com/ Find Craig Midwinter: chess.com: https://www.chess.com/member/craigjmidwinter Find Dan Huen: Youtube at Canadian Computer Collector [https://www.youtube.com/@CanadianComputerCollector] 📖 Credits Music by FASSounds from Pixabay #RHOSLC #RHONY #bravo #realitytv #RealHousewives

I have to write off the bat. Give a standing ovation to the editors for including a full 45 seconds of John parallel parking. Really good to just include that full segment all the way through was beautiful. And then the way that they just like instantly just transitioned to doing him. Like his like cool guy walk up out of the vehicle. Like nothing happened was just great work right there. A parallel parking spot, the size of a football field too. like getting in here going back and forth and back.

But it was a great way to lead into that scene because it was like a very like I thought awkward conversation between Justin and John who neither of them really seemed to want to do this at all, right? I just really like the awkward back and forth to awkward back and forth. There you go. There you go. Exactly. Hello and welcome to the Bravo outsider podcast.

I'm your host Craig Midwinter joined as always by Dylan Ferguson, Fergie Fur. Also, we're very pleased to be joined by the Canadian computer collector, good friend of mine, Dan Hewin. Oh, yeah. My hair may be curly, but let me tell you, my attitude is burly. Surly was right there. Surly was right there. Well, thanks for coming on. We're going to be talking about real host wives of New York and real host wives of Salt Lake City. Were either of these more compelling to you? Is there a place where you want to start? pretty general opinion about the both of them. It's a different opinion for each one, but I will say the juice is probably in Salt Lake City. Okay, let's hit it. Let's dive right

into Salt Lake City. Do you want to give us a quick summary of what happened on this episode? Like, they went to a party and that one with like the black hair who looked like a mob wife or whatever. She was like going nuts. Like, oh, Lisa. You call it me a thing. She's a freaking line. And then she like goes up to her husband, which is a stupid move if you ask me. Because if you go up to someone's spouse and try and drag them through the dirt in front of them, of course they're going to be like, shut the fuck up. You know what I mean? And that's what he did.

And then old scrawny banana boy John jumps in and he's like, uh, he's like putting his hands on him. I'm like, dude, you're picking the wrong fight. Like that guy's like twice as wide as you. Big mistake. Big.

Cute. Like you are never like that guy is. never going to take down a dude that that's that you know is shorter than him and wider like it's just not going to happen i also thought he was super inappropriate like you shouldn't be like maybe the first one where he's like yo calm down like fine but then when he walked over you're trying to like whip him out of the conversation i'm like are you just not used to living in society like you you're not used to consequences for what you do and then he takes him out for potato skins or whatever it was out yeah smashed potatoes i'm like get out of here really excited about

And then I love it. He's like, oh, you got to try there. You're going to apologize to my wife? I think she deserves an apology. I'm lying in bed at like 1030. And I'm like, no, she doesn't. It doesn't deserve anything. That was ridiculous. Do you have like a big question that you were left with at the end of this episode? I was curious if what's his face, not John, but the other husband was actually going to apologize. I was pretty happy with him being like, well, we'll see what happens. because, like, he's not just kissing his ass.

I will say, though, in the notes that one of my favorite moments with that whole fight was when that guy, John, goes, don't say the fuck word to my wife. Yeah, don't say the F word or the fuck word. They had to, like, beep it out. And I'm like, are you kidding me? You just, like, yes, we say the F word. Like, when people say that stuff, but the fuck word, it sounds like toddlers fighting, you know? I had a lot of respect in the end for the other guy.

I thought that he held himself really well. I think he was really good to his wife in that situation. Yeah, he seems like someone I respect on a show like this, which for someone who's cynical as myself, I was not ready for that. You know, I was like, this is this guy I can get behind, you know. What do you think about him,

like dumping down the drain Lisa's branded products? Yeah, I thought that was so funny. He's doing exactly what like right wingers do when they like pretend to boycott things by like destroying shit that they already bought and paid for. Yeah. Let's get rid of Coors Light. Dude, you spent like $150 on all of that. Yeah.

But I'm so mad. I'm $150 worth of mad right now, you know? Yeah. I just like how he seems to be showing Whitney being like, look at me pouring this alcohol you like down the drain. And she's like, can you not do that actually? She's possibly like a full bottle. That was like seal. That was a gift.

I kind of like it. This is so stupid, but you sit up. for me, so I'm just going to let you do this. I wrote down, oh, wow, this meltdown is legendary. And you know what? My favorite part was like the housewife who was melting now. You said it was Angie was her name or something? Lisa was having the freak out.

She was. Yeah, Lisa probably. I felt like it had so much of like a childish, like, we've never experienced real consequences for freaking out thing. And I felt the ultimate irony was that her husband was like, don't you say the F word to my wife, even though she's ruining this party for everyone right now. Like even the regular guests, the camera would catch their faces the odd time. They'd be like, oh, what's going on?

Their children were there for God's sakes. And they're freaking out like that. Although I kind of feel like that's par for the course, though. Like, I think a decent amount of these ladies have reached such status in their lives that they're like, if I feel like freaking out, I'm doing it. I don't even care where we are right now. Well, that's part of the job, too. Yeah, it's kind of the expectation too. Dylan, what stood out to you in terms of the presentation on this episode?

I have to write off the bat, give a standing ovation to the editors for including a full 45 seconds of John parallel parking. I just saw my note about that. Really good to just include that full segment all the way through was beautiful. And then the way that they just like instantly just transition to doing him like his like cool guy walk up out of the vehicle. Like nothing happened was just great work right there. A parallel parking spot the size of a football field too. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. You're like my goodness. So I might know it was John sucks a parallel parking absolute loser. It was a great way to lead into that scene because it was like a very like I thought awkward conversation. between Justin and John, who neither of them really seem to want to do this at all, right? They're just like doing what they got to do. Like they did their conflict because they got dragged into it and they don't want to.

Like neither of them has their blood boiling for real. I don't think they're just like they're doing what they have to do. And it just, and the way that they sit down and there's like, smash potatoes is what you got it. What you got to get at this place. Apparently we got to let's do that before we do the other thing. and just like, it kind of visibly uncomfortable. And I just really like the awkward.

From awkward back and forth to awkward back and forth. There you go. There you go. You got to squash this beef so I can get back to running room and hang out there for a while. Wow. Yeah, I thought that that was a brilliant inclusion as well. And also the way that this scene is shot, it's like pretty striking. I like how it ends on this low angle of them at the table, just awkwardly sipping on.

their old fashions that they ordered and eating their smashed potatoes. Well, yeah, like what did they even resolve there, right? Like, it felt so awkward. Then the request for an apology was like the awkward icing on the cake. And then dude's sitting there like, yeah, I can't give you anything else. And so like, it was great that they ended it that way because the editor really captured the awkwardness of that whole situation. I mean, they, they were trying to just smooth it over so that they could move on and like

be cool. Like, I feel like that's just. the way a lot of men tend to operate. It's like, okay, we'd just, let's put this behind us, move on. Also, I wonder if on some level, one of the producers was like, look, like this is just part of the show.

Like, John amped it up because he probably thought it would be a good idea, you know, to get some drama. Maybe he didn't even consult with anyone. He just thought, oh, this would be great for the show. And he's like, you know, and that's out of character for him, perhaps. I don't know. I've only seen one episode.

But he definitely didn't seem like that type of guy. When they got down to the confrontation part, he wasn't like, you freaking screwed with my wife. You know, he was just like, okay, well, I don't, you know, like, so it was very, like, I don't know, I almost wonder if it was out of character. Like, he's not scrawny, because there were shots of him in their kitchen after, and I was like, this is a pretty tall dude who looks like he's pretty built.

But at the same time, like, he doesn't seem like a crazy person. You know what I mean? That was crazy people, maybe. He doesn't seem like Mr. Stand Up for my Mouthy Wife. as he called himself. Well, yeah, he doesn't seem like he goes to nightclubs and like inserts himself into beefs. You know what I mean? Like, that's what most of these people come off as, right?

Like, or at least the housewives do, you know, like, they'd be like the kind of chick. When we were like 22, who'd be screaming at a nightclub about something or throwing a drink on someone, you know. I want to go back to what you said about this maybe being for the show because I feel like it's maybe not for the show in the sense that he thought that this was going to add like narrative value or help. drive and move the season forward. I feel like most of the men on Salt Lake City at least are kind of hands off when it comes to that sort of thing. But the idea that it's for the show in terms of how he wants to be seen within the eyes

of the audience and how he would like to be presented. I think that that's probably true. I feel like this was out of character for him. I don't think production was involved. I didn't get that vibe. Like it didn't feel fake. I'll say that. felt like something he might have just decided on a whim to do, you know?

I think that this all happened because Lisa dragged them into this, right? Like, Lisa was blowing up on Whitney at the end of the previous episode. And she is like, now I'm going to go talk to Justin and make him react. And then if Justin reacts, well, then John's going to have to react. Like, this is Lisa just trying to escalate it by dragging the husband's into it. They didn't want to be part of this. But Lisa is like, okay, you are now. My boyfriend.

It's just part of her like escalation process. Anything else stand out to you in terms of the presentation of this, Dylan? Um, I, I, one scene that like really also, uh, stood out for me, I guess in the way it's presented, um, was Bronwyn and Todd eating and their, their little plexiglass bubble. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And part of that, it's just that that's like one of the worst legacies of COVID for me is just like convincing people that it's like cool to eat in a plexiglass cabinet like next to a road. Yeah, I'm so glad you brought those. too up. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, we had to. But that, but that giving us the image of being like encased in your own little plexiglass bubble is like a good image of like so much of what's going

on in the show of everybody in their own little bubbles, uh, whether it's like the religious bubble that we see when we get that very Mormon scene, uh, of everybody doing their little fireside chat or whatever the hell it was. Um, singing hymns. Yeah. Or like, you know, Bronwyn and her little work. and Lisa and her little world and everybody being in their own and their own little bubbles where they can kind of see through the plexiglass but aren't really connected to each other. That introducing that image was I thought useful. It wasn't necessarily an aesthetically pleasing moment.

Like I don't believe Rodman when she's like, oh, this is so cute. No, it's not. It's like a really hideous setup. But it gives us a good image to like keep in our mind through the rest of the episode. Dan, anything stand out about the presentation of this for you? Yeah. And I don't mean to be rude. But the note that I made was Bronwyn's husband is old balls.

It's okay. They're not listening. Well, yeah. But I laugh so hard. Now you're bursting my bubble. I laugh so hard because they sit down at the table and like, oh, this woman, like, based on the intro, like, view that they show. You know how they do? They're a little, like, pose next to their name. I was like, oh, she seems pretty young looking.

And then she sat down with her husband. And then I realized she's not that young. Like she's, I mean, their ages are probably a lot closer than I initially thought. But he gives off such like classic old white man vibes. It's so funny. Like he ordered seared salmon. You know, she got a pizza. He's like, I'll take the salmon.

You know, and like, it just, it's, he seemed though, like I started to like him by the end of the conversation. Like he didn't, he doesn't seem like an idiot. He's not just fawning over. her like it seems like they have kind of an equality to the way that they talk to each other like you know i was actually like yeah this seems like a decent relationship on this show you know um i'm just gonna say just come and jump in there to say that i really disliked todd in this episode this is like we haven't seen a ton of him yet part that was just that i don't i don't like the way that he doesn't use his his knife and his left hand while he's eating maybe this is a

like a very uh a minor complaint but he's eating that seared salmon the way child does, just hacking off chunks with his fork and shoveling them towards his mouth. Very childish behavior. There's no pizza experience. The fact that he has to travel all over the world for work and his hobby is collecting Starbucks mugs is like the lamest thing a human could do.

Like collecting fridge makes is like collecting rare tapestries and shrunken heads compared to being like, I went to the Starbucks in South Korea. like this congratulations there's business centers everywhere you go yeah this guy just seems

really lame and boring on like you know first glimpse first glimpse you know that don't know very well yet one of the only like direct

statements he says is when he he straight up says these people are kind of despicable human beings which is like okay buddy you might calm down there

like what I felt like on some level he was the closest to normal out of anyone on the show. And it's because he's boring. Normal sucks. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like he was just what you would expect from going for lunch with your grandpa. He just stared at the table for a long time and ate his salmon.

You know, like, she's talking at him about all this drama. And he's like, eh. Ah, you know. I'm just trying to get the salmon in my mouth without missing. you know. Unaware that you're allowed to use your second head while you're eating. Just like,

let me concentrate. I've got to get the center of South Korea. They tie your left and behind your back. But he works out in New York. What's his job anyway? I don't know. I don't know. Have they said?

I don't know. No. Are they like a fresh couple on the series or something? Yeah. Bronwyn is brand brand new on the show. Okay. Because she is like, I feel like she's everything they've been looking for. Like the clothing she wears, the six dogs, the blue kitchen and she doesn't even cook.

Like, you know, she seems like the perfect candidate for this show. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Although I did laugh. It seems like if you could lab design a housewife, she's what you would come up with. Yeah. She kind of looks lab design too in a way.

And partially it is. I mean, what is she on her third nose? I think she said. But also, I love the way that she seems to be desperate to try to inject a very dorky idea of eccentricity into like their relationship. I dressed up as a big to pick you up at the airport. Oink, kids and everybody's like, don't talk to me.

I can get behind that super hard because he is so the opposite of that. And the fact that she gets such a charge out of surprising him in ways that are like super unattractive. and awkward. I think that's fantastic. You know, like, like for, for an older guy to have a trophy wife that does silly stuff, I think that's really cute almost. You know what I mean? Like, I think that's a great dynamic to have. Instead of, like, constantly trying to be on.

It's funny, because when I was watching this scene, it, like, really resonated with me because we're taping this on Friday, and yesterday was Halloween, and I went to pick up my son from school yesterday, and I was the only parent there in a costume. Like, I was dressed as a giant hot dog and nobody would make eye contact with me. So then later that night, I'm watching this episode.

Yeah, yeah. But I'm watching this and nobody in the airport wants to give her the time of day. And I was like, oh my God, this is what I looked like. It was like I was looking in the mirror. I love that she even went up to like young people and tried to talk to them. See it's so funny. Yeah, I can respect that quite a bit. Yeah, just trying to get a reaction out of somebody and everybody's just like, I'm here to pick up my luggage.

I'm not. One scene that I wanted to mention when Lisa, I think it was, the one that freaked out at the beginning, went for lunch with her sister and showed up wearing a leather jacket with baggy leather pants. I was just like, this is so Jersey it hurts. Like, I don't even know how she ended up in Salt Lake City. city, but this is hilarious. I really like this scene because Lisa's sister, her manner of speaking and the phrases that she used

were so similar to Lisa. Like, if you close your eyes, it sounded like it was just Lisa talking. I really like that. She was kind of using her sister as a reflection as well. She was talking about how she is insecure about whether or not she's a good mother.

And yeah, I really liked this scene where she seemed like she was able to use her sister as this reflection. and really kind of dive deep into her insecurity. I bet you from a family of six, that's a very real insecurity that she would have. Not like something she's just saying either. You know, like, I don't know what their home life was like. I imagine it probably wasn't that bad if there were six of them and they're all rich now.

But like, you know, maybe they didn't feel like they got enough attention from one or both of their parents. You never know. Do you have a quote that stood out to you, Dan? I didn't write one down specifically, but I would say that the moment that stuck out the most of me was when, I think it was Heather was her name, the blonde lady that got invited over to Bronwyn's house. Yeah. When made that like rude remark about the the dogs pooing wherever they wanted. I love so hard.

I can't remember what the wording was though. I wish I'd written it down. I remember just thinking like she's like, she invites me here and, you know, talking about shit and now there's dogs shitting everywhere. Basically like something along those lines. And I was like, that's hilarious. And that's also like, you know, I love dogs. I know lots of people who have dogs.

that are great owners, but that's, you know, one of the things that comes with six dogs is they're going to eventually go to the bathroom because she can't possibly be walking each of them individually every day, like four times a day. Like, they're going to eventually that house is just going to become a dog toilet, you know? Let's get into our highlights. Dylan, what were your highlights here? Since you just brought it up, Dan, that's the way that we ended on that scene of Heather visiting Bronwyn in her house. that was great. That was a great scene for me. I thought I really liked their argument.

I really like how neither of those women are like seating an inch of ground. I thought there was like a really interesting kind of confrontation where they're both kind of still trying to get to know each other on this show or they're both kind of trying to like get their feet settled and like and draw the battle line. And I just thought that they were both very tenacious while also like trying to like use very like reasonable lines of dialogue. and stuff and I thought it just came off really well and was a really tense and interesting scene. The setting of course was great. She does live in the Dr. Seuss house to go with her Dr. Seuss outfits. It's goofy as hell. And also I think Heather's showing like really good strategy in that point too, just in the way that she shows up dressed like very casually too. Like Heather shows up wearing like a sweatshirt and jeans. Knowing full well that Bronwyn as always is going to be.

be dressed like she's hosting an Australian children's program called like the Wasawoodle Gang or something. Are you drunk? Like she knows full well that that's like Broadwood's whole thing. And since they're both kind of going at this being like, well, I'm just trying to be real. You know, I'm just trying to be straight and direct and honest with you that like visually somebody's going to look more real than the other person. right like like heather knows that she's she's creating a contrast a visual contrast by dressing it a way that makes her coated like normal real life comfortable this is me i'm just chilling every day wearing my jeans and sweats kind of kind of luck well and let's not get earlier in the show

as the relatable one mm-hmm it aesthetically braun when was like wearing that james bond like pull the thing and it builds like a full inflatable structure around you when they went for that walk together. So like the contrast like Dylan's saying is huge, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Like well, we have that conversation. We get a clip to a confessional of, uh, of Broadwood saying, I'm not giving Heather a phony version of myself, but she says that while she's dressed the way like Bugs Bunny would dress pretending to be a flamenco dancer while he tries to seduce Lever Fund. Like so we that the aesthetic contrast is like very sharp between two people saying like, I'm just being me. I'm just being straight. And one person is clearly wearing costumes the whole time.

Yeah. Like, so I think that was really very smart of Heather. I think she thought of that and intentionally like wore like the most normy clothes possible to create that aesthetic contrast in the viewer's mind. And I thought that was just one of, of a series of like or like very smart moves by Heather, who I thought was really an art game this episode. I would also argue that that Bronwyn was very like almost out of line with the way she handled that. She like invited her over to squash the beef. And instead of squashing the beef, she's like, I'm planning a trip and you're like not on the list right now. I'm like, that's not really leaving an opening to squash the beef.

Which I think is good play by Bronman. I think Brodman's playing it well. I think she's been doing a good season. But what I appreciate by Heather is that Heather is really intent on drilling down to point those things out, right? To Heather's like right away being like, okay, oh, so you've invited me here to dance for my dinner then. Like I'm going to just like layer bare exactly what you're doing. Like I'm going to make it very clear what you're doing for everybody. watching right now, like, uh, like, Heather's being very tiniacious and trying to, uh,

uh, expose everything's Bronwyn's doing in the most stark terms so that it's a very obviously calculated. So I think they're both actually like a sparring at a fairly high level in that dialogue. That's what I appreciate. I do agree that they both had a pretty good like exchange here. And I like that they weren't, you know, giving up any, any ground. I'm a bit disappointed that they weren't able to at least come to enough of a truce that Heather is able to go on this trip because I would like I would like to see this continue and in I think that cast trip environment is a really good place for that to take place. So yeah, a little disappointed that is going to lead to her not being on this trip and us not seeing this storyline extend into the like

the core of the season with that cast trip. My immediate emotional gut reaction was that Heather is trying to frame herself as a victim and it just like didn't resonate with me because honestly I just don't really like Heather that much. But I think you make a good point about this. If I am able to take myself out of my emotional reactionary response to seeing Heather that it is good gameplay. I will say Heather kind of earned my respect.

in like, I think it was a scene one or two before that when they're at the Mormon party and old lips and Botox face starts tearing into her. Who are you? I am from ancient Greece. Yeah. And I was like, I was kind of like, who, what is this lady showing up to her party and then like start beef with her over, you know? And it just, it felt really like catty and silly. She was like, I remember Heather in high school.

and she always wanted to sit with the popular girls. And it's just like, yeah, but look at you now. You know what I mean? Like, you're literally a human mess. She's just standing up for herself. You know what I mean? I disagree. I think that Angie really nailed Heather's motivation.

Like, Heather really wants to be seen as the popular person. Like, she wants to be the fan favorite and she'll do whatever she can. That's why she's out there, always repeating her, like, her catchphrase from the past season like it's going out of fashion. What's her catchphrase? It's like receipts, proof, timelines. It just got like a really good edit last year in the finale where they added like gunshots underneath each thing that she was saying in order to like really have it make an impact.

And the fan base went wild for it. But now she's just repeating it over and over and over and over again anywhere she can. She uses it in her tagline anytime like any presser she's going to try. try to find an excuse to say it. And it's trying to build a brand. And I think that like what Dylan has articulated on past episodes that Heather's lameness is something that she brings to this show that is something that we can, we can appreciate.

But I think that Angie really nailed the, the motivation that Heather has. And she does want to be, you know, the popular one at all costs. This is a part that kills me though. Oh, sorry. Go ahead, Dylan. Yeah, no, I do think that, that I agree with Craig, that Angie is completely right. I think that's a big part of Heather's personality.

And I do think that's one of the things that I find most interesting about Heather, because it is such a big part of her personality. And that was the right context to bring that up in because that was in this very Mormon thing. And Heather, despite like being a reformed Mormon is like one of the things that that is part of her brand now, is still clearly extremely attached to like the Mormon church and being a good Mormon and all this stuff. So in that situation, I thought that was kind of the right read of Angie's, because you really see Heather, like, just slinking back into that chair. And, like, just when they start all singing together and doing their dorky Mormon shit,

she's, like, so in her zone. Like, she just slips back into that, into that, like, good Mormon. I know the rituals. I just, and she says something. Like, I just want to stand up and start leading the fireside, just like old times. That's such a part of, like, her personality. And that's, that kind of gives her a vulnerability and also, like, a sense of understanding of her motivation. So I thought really came through in that seed.

And just while we're on the subject, I just, to say that I also really liked the metaphor that Heather uses to explain that when she says it's like your first apartment. Like, I don't want to live in my first apartment ever again. But of course, I have like really positive, nostalgic associations with it because that was when I was younger and happier and I have all that happiness, which is attached to that. That's the way she uses to describe her feelings towards the Mormon church. Of course, she has so much nostalgic attachment, so much happiness associated with that, but I don't want to live there anymore. I thought that was a really great metaphor, the first department metaphor to kind of describe that

feeling. So I just thought that was like a great way of, you know, summarizing that thing, which is so core to her character, which is so Heather. I guess two things stood out to me in this whole scene. The first one, I will say, is it was when Angie showed up with a bottle of wine. I laughed super hard because she knows, like they don't drink but she's like I've seen that bitch drinking wine like all the time so she like suck on this reality although the I appreciate that for badgie because again that that's one of those things where it's like their relationship with alcohol is so weird they're all like you know we don't drink as Mormons but we see them drink all the time so I like that like

tequila brands like I always see you drinking so I just thought it'd be fine to drink to bring you wide like they got like those Mormon wives that just pound a Stanley cup full of mountain do all day yeah but I was just saying The other thing that stood out to me in this scene is it, like, this is classic, like, popular crowd behavior, right? Like, condemn one of you that you're mad at for whatever reason for all of the things that you already are. You know what I mean?

She just wants to be the center of attention. That's, like, her goal. It's like, lady, you're on a show called the Real Housewives of Salt Lake City. Obviously, being the center of attention is super important to you as well. You know, like all of them are like Lisa freaking out at the start. you know, like the one that was like, I don't pour the shit down the sink. You know, like they're all people who crave the spotlight.

So it's super funny that when they turn their back on someone or when they're when they're no longer interested in someone, they like project all of these things that they also feel in the fight and like the confrontation with them. Like it's hilarious to me to say that one of them wants the spotlight. Like, and maybe she does or maybe she's just trying to build a brand or whatever make it keep paying when she's not on the show anymore. But at the end of the day, they're all doing that, right?

Like that's the name of the game. That's so human behavior though, right? Is that the things that annoy you most about other people are the things that you see in yourself that you don't like about yourself, right? Humans are the worst. I will say, though, that Mort is a gem, you know? Oh, Mort, his way of speaking is so interesting. Like, Mort was very, a very interesting figure. And then he's, I could listen to him talk about pickleball all night.

I love that. He's like, and she would beat me like 60% of the time. I couldn't give her the whole lot. Just so you don't think that I was losing all of the time. Like I want you to know. I was still winning a decent amount of the time. It was close to equal. And then he would drop it.

Yeah, they dated for everyone. When his daughter's like, they dated for six days and then they got married. I was like, whoa. That is impulsive. Also, we get a little tiny snapshot of when he's like mentioning his family. And they're like all dressed up the same way. And they look to be a singing group like like the osmids. And I was just, I had this moment where I was like, is this every Mormon famine?

Are they all the osmonds are? Do all of them have to form singing groups with like matching suits? Is this just like a family ritual? They all go through. How many sequins died for that outfit? For all those outfits. Is the osmins like the only one that broke through so we don't realize that every family does that? And only one of them actually made like work on a national stage.

I was going to say one of my highlights for this episode was the dog kicking its neck while Bronwyn and Heather were having their confrontation on the couch. The editor clearly left the frame wide enough to have this dog just hammering its own neck. Like for a while, you know? Any other highlights from this, Dan? You know, the things I highlighted were Mort. Oh, you know what? I would say I said the John sucking at Parallel Park. the dog kicking its neck. Although one

thing I thought was really funny and this is something that that kills me about a lot of stuff that is not scripted. So people make mistakes in their speech and that's fine and it just for some reason it drives me crazy and so when, was it Justin is the other husband

that got in the fight? When he's talking to his wife she's like, what are you going to do? And he's like, well I guess I'll just be as direct as I possibly can with him and then proceeded to say the most vague thing in the world. Sounds good. Yeah. I'm going to say that. I don't know, maybe just saying that sounds good.

Yeah. He's like, what? It wasn't direct at all. You just threw that out there. I also wrote down, gorgeous mountains feels like they don't have any trees. So I don't know. That's more about the terrain.

That's a topographical analysis of. Yeah. It is remarkable in Salt Lake City. Whenever they show like drone shots of the city, it's always like, wow, this, like the surrounding mountain chains looks beautiful and the actual city looks like. extremely boring. Yes.

And you can imagine what they're paying for those houses right next to those mountains. Any other highlights, Dan? Oh, you can't know.

The other highlight that I had, this was the other highlight. I don't know how I missed this when we were talking about the fight at the very beginning of the episode. Lisa's screaming,

freaking out, going up to everyone at the party, me like, she's a liar. And then they're like, okay, linked hands for a prayer. And then they do.

I'm like, what? You could have linked hands of anyone here and you went right back to her and like, okay, you know. Mary Forsted, too. Mary Forsted, yeah.

That's just, oh, okay. Well, maybe I missed that part of it. Oh, my God. I was like, this is so silly. And then, like, what's her face leaves immediately? I'm like, so I guess licking hands didn't work. Yeah. Who are your stars from this episode, Dan?

I think Justin was, was, like, he won me over completely just the way he handled himself. He does not come across as a psycho. he's not an impulsive loser from what I've seen. I've only seen one episode within a minute. And I actually, I really got a kick out of Bronwyn. I think she's a good fit. If she's new for the show, I think she makes a lot of sense on the show.

Because as Dylan mentioned, she looks like she lives in Dr. Seuss's world, you know. She's very extra, as the youth might say. So I think she's a good fit. I just find it's so funny that her husband is just like, you know, everyone's dentist. like he's just not that exciting he's a nice guy it seems but he's just like he's like a guy he looks close to 70 he's just tired with life you know talking all the time you know like but you know I I thought she was really entertaining now don't who are your stars here I think my first star is not going to be a big surprise I think as everybody listening can tell at this point

one of our biggest divides on the show which would be in Craig is that I think Heather's really fascinating and awesome and Craig loads Heather. which is great. I can't wait to keep to keep hashing this out. But I thought Heather had a great episode. I really did. I thought she was really speaking very precisely. She was really using her words, really using her mind. She was put into a lot of quarters in this episode and was really kind of fighting her way through strategically. I thought I really liked the way she reacted to Angie coming at her and the way she came off as sympathetic but not sycophantic towards Lisa and like really managed to dodge the question. well using phrases that seemed like direct enough that it seemed like she was being clear spoken and level-headed like she's she's using her phrases well and she's fighting well I thought I like when she sits down with Brittany and they're like wow I was crazy what happened at the party last night and others like yeah it was crazy what happened between Lisa and Whitney and Britney's like no no between me and Jared and and others like oh right yeah the the other the only thing you ever talk

about. Sure. We're going to talk about that, of course. And then, like, it tells straight up tells Heather that she's acting crazy or tells Britney that she's acting crazy, that she's in a toxic relationship, but does it in a way where she still manages to not just like make Britney say fuck you and storm out, but like actually like sit there and listen to her and like remain in the friendship. I thought that was just another example of Heather actually like using her words really well.

and I thought she had a huge episode. Again, love that like first department metaphor, which gives us more of her psychology. Great stuff, I thought, first star. Second star, I mean, I guess it's going to have to be Bronwyn because she also is a total goof, dressed like a crazy person. Good for her. And Ed is like we've mentioned a lot of times.

That's just slipped right into the show. And third star, it's tempting to give it to Lisa, who didn't have a lot but still had like great Lisa moments. Like what she says, she's going to have to beg me to ever even look at her again. And that takes a big sip of the big gulp. That was like a classic like Lisa moment. But I'll give it to Mort instead. Let's give it to Mort.

Okay. Yeah. Let's get more on the podium. I'd also like to echo that Dylan, when he mentioned that Heather had a good edit. I felt like for someone coming into a cold, they were trying to paint her as the desperate like, I want to be popular girl.

But she really stood up for herself in a lot of situations and didn't just fold to whatever the popular girls were saying, right? Like she seemed like a strong independent type. Yeah, considering the way that she was painted into a lot of corners, I thought she like fended for herself very ably. Yeah, I think some of the walls closing in on Heather are of her own creation, but I agree that she did well fending for herself, you know, in that situation here. She's going to be my number one star as well here,

despite the fact that I had a emotional, reaction to her performance in that final scene. I think sprinkled throughout this episode, especially the scene that we got between her and Brittany, the scene at the fireside as well. I think she did have a really compelling episode. And yeah, we didn't talk about that scene at Beauty Lab very much. But when Brittany is trying to like frame her relationship with Jared in these really positive terms and being like, well, haven't you ever had a relationship? like that. Haven't you experience a love like that? And Heather just says, yeah, I've been in a toxic relationship and immediately reframes it. And Brittany's like, well, what did you do? And Heather says,

I fucked up my life. Yeah. It really is just such a good back and forth between them. I think it showed Heather's experience at this. So yeah, I agree. It pains me to give Heather number one star here, but she earned it here. Number two, I'm good- Welcome to Heather gang, Craig. No, no, not, not, stop it. I'm not ready to come over to the Heather Gang side. I still find her to be just like nails on a chalkboard. I think the desperation that she has to be the popular girl is something that really frustrates me. It's tough for me to watch.

So I'm not ready to come over there yet, but I am coming around to the idea that she can be appreciated for what she brings. to the show in a way that someone like Lisa Rina is really tough for me to like watch and empathize with, but bring something to Rehals Boys of Beverly Hills in that case that I think is core to what that show is. So I'm open to receiving Heather for what she is, but I don't think I will ever truly love her. We'll get you Heather Pilt yet. Yeah. Hey, you got me fully on board with Louis in Jersey.

So, yeah, I wouldn't be shocked. Then number two, I also want to give it to Justin. I think that we saw him go through a lot of different phases of emotional reaction to this before, like, really tempering himself. And we got that, like, that lowering of the temperature from the very beginning where it's getting physical and they're so. so like John and Justin are so angry at each other. And they, and you know, quickly that kind of dissolves.

We see the next scene where Justin's still angry and he's just like getting this anger out by dumping a bunch of alcohol down the drain. And then by the time that we get to see John and Justin together, they're basically completely over it. They're just hashing it out because they have to at this point. And yeah, I thought that that was an interesting progression. I think 2B is also John, who we got to see new levels of lameness from him. Like, I don't think we've ever really got a full picture of what John Barlow is like.

And to see him, it's interesting to me that we get a better picture of him when he's trying to step outside of his character and present himself as something that he's not. We see how truly like this like lame, uptight Mormon he is when he's trying to kind of present himself as something other than that. We can see all that true internal character that he has seeping out because he just can't be the person that he wants to be on camera. So I thought that was really interesting as well. He probably can't park a car the way he'd like to either. And then number two, I'm going to give it to, to, Bronwyn. Oh, I'm on number three. Two, Craig.

Number two C is going to go to Bronwyn and number two D is going to go to Angie. Okay, let's get into Real Housewives of New York. Before we do that, though, I just want to take the opportunity to get everyone to

hit like and subscribe on whatever platform they are watching this on. Check out on screen right now. We've got our toll-free number where you can leave your take. Let us know what you're thinking about Real Housewives of Salt Lake City, Real Housewives of New York. If you're listening audio only, it'll be in our show notes.

I don't have it in front of me, so I'm not going to read it out, and you don't have a pen and paper next to you to copy it down anyways. So check the show notes or check the screen right here, right below me. It's right here. It's flashing. It's spinning around. It's doing it's doing all kinds of crazy effects. that take lots of time to render.

Look at this. We used to do that to Craig back in the day on week thus far. Oh, yeah. That's true. Got to get a piece of broccoli in my left hand. Oh, my God. Let's dive into Real Housewives of New York. Dan, you said you were not as big a fan of this.

Do you want to give us a summary of what happened? Okay, so I wrote two three-word summaries of this, and then I'll do like a real summary. But the three-word summary that I wrote initially was emotional birthday party. And then the second one I wrote was, this was boring. So like, you know, emotional birthday party is my favorite Midwest emo band. I think there's probably been a lot of emotional birthday parties on these shows over there.

So it starts off with, I can't remember her name, but she was dressed like Michael Jackson shopping for plants. And she was talking about. Yeah, she was going to put her mom's ashes in the ground and whatever because they were in a bag and her closet and all that. You know what? This felt very real because I know lots of people who've had that problem. They lose a parent. They receive the ashes.

It's such a difficult emotion to deal with that they put them somewhere and then they just kind of leave it because they don't want to come back to it because confronting it is actually very difficult. And later on in the episode, when they do bury the ashes, they kind of pull up a tree, put the ashes into the ground. and then put the tree back. I thought there was a really nice moment and a really nice ceremony they had. I actually made the note that, where is it?

Something along the lines of, like, I'll have to find it afterward, but I said it was nice to see real people on this show, like having real emotions and not just like talking themselves up and being fake and all that stuff.

But like they were actually shedding some tears and they were struggling and it felt very real for a show like this. You know what I mean? It didn't feel put upon. One of the things I have to give these shows credit is I don't really think that there's too much producer meddling. I think a lot of it probably happens in post. I think a lot of the storylines come together afterward.

If I had to guess, I don't know, of course. But that one felt pretty real. And I think a moment like that probably wouldn't happen or would have been weird if a producer had been involved and trying to amp it up. You know what I mean? And then most of this episode felt like it was birthday party planning and then the birthday party. And I got to say, like, I wrote one thing down. It always blows my mind how grandiose these people treat their birthdays. Like, like, their birthday is somehow a favor to society.

Like, they're like, oh, I have to do X, Y, Z for my birthday. Because if I don't, then, you know, like, we won't have any tax income for the year. Like, it just doesn't make any sense, you know, how, like, a person can be in their 40s and be like, oh, every birthday has to be perfect. It just, it reminds me of like human beings who lived without consequence, who always got what they wanted, who probably had parents that were millionaires and were just like, do anything you please. You know, and now that you're 40, you're this absolute monster when it comes to planning your birthday party. Yeah, I don't know. I think that's kind of what it all funneled to, though.

Like, that's why I kind of felt like not a lot to happen. It was like spreading ashes, planning a birthday, and then this big birthday where they confront each other, two of them. in front each other. I mean, if you had a birthday party and spread ashes, you'd probably consider that a pretty busy day though, right? Oh, yeah. But that wasn't the same person though, right? No, no, no, no.

No, no, no. Okay. Dylan, what's enough to you in terms of how this was presented? Okay, off the bat, I really like size storyline, like Dan mentioned, right? I think we've been kind of been given this idea that size doing personal growth since the start of the season. We haven't really seen that yet, aside from her like going into like an ice bath at one point. But like, but in this episode we actually get to see that and we actually have images of that.

The fact that we start off like you mentioned Dan with her shopping for plants because she wants to start a garden, which is clearly something that is new to her. So she like we have this image right away of like trying to grow something. of being patient, of taking time to, like, grow your own things rather than just going out to the store and getting the instant gratification of buying them. And that, you know, growth metaphor with plants dovetails right away into her, you know, having the storyline with her mom's ashes, which are going to feed a plant, a tree. And that very good image, which you touched on, Dan, of having your mom's ashes in the closet because it's something that you don't want to think about, that you're having a hard time dealing with it.

having a hard time integrating that into your life. So it's in the closet. It's hidden. It's in your house, but you're trying not to look at it. You're trying to keep it away. And her trying to bring herself to transfer her mom from the closet into the ground where it's going to feed a plant, where it's going to be part of this process of growth that she's trying to tap into, this idea that she's trying to be patient and learn to grow something slowly with roots that are connected to where she came from and what she actually is and what her her history is and all that and trying to learn to have a way to incorporate her mom who we've learned from last season she had a very difficult relationship with.

It tried to learn to incorporate that into her growth process. So we really get like these rich metaphors for Sy's attempts to become a better person, I guess, to try to grow and be more patient and be more connected and not hide parts of her past parts of herself, but try to learn to integrate them into ourselves. So that's great stuff. It starts off really strong, I thought, with that. And I really like how that all plays out. I agree.

I thought that this was like so thematically rich here. The fact that we see, like you said, this idea of planting and growth be this strong theme. We're also balancing this idea of kind of calm versus noise and chaos. And in that opening scene, we hear. sigh talking about how she doesn't feel safe if she doesn't hear sirens and fuck you every minute. You know, this going out into the country, something that is new to her. Yeah, I thought it was, it was really fantastic.

Was she the one with the gold chest plate in the one on ones? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Looked like a World of Warcraft item or Diablo too, you know. Dan, what quotes stood out to you? Okay, so I laughed super hard. How have you not seen Clueless?

Because my girlfriend was watching it with me. And she goes, yeah, how have you not seen Clueless? And honestly, yeah, how have you not seen Clueless? You haven't seen Clueless, Craig? I haven't seen Clueless. What? Have you seen Clueless? Yeah.

Yeah. Go watch. Clueless is good. It's a good movie, but yeah. I'm sure it is. There's lots of good movies I haven't seen. I haven't seen that one either. Favorite quotes, I'd say probably that.

I laughed really hard at it's fat with a pee. Because it felt non-ironic. You know what I mean? Like, I couldn't tell. I'm like, is this ironic? I assume that that was a quote. Yeah, she's trying to tap into the 90s vibe of a clueless party, I think. Okay.

And then I'd say, the number one quote of this episode, I think was in a flashback. I can't believe you sold our Bitcoin. Yeah. She's like, we needed that. I'm like, for what? Like, what are you hiring hits on the dark web? Like, just hash it out, lady?

Like, what is your problem in this situation? Oh, man. Oh, I also thought it was really funny. Oh, she's a little pigeon toad. You know what? You need local honey. That'll fix your feet. that was honestly

so I think maybe I'm jumping the gut here but I do think like Bryn is kind of coming off as a bit of a villain in this episode but that is one moment where the editors really had her back and it was really funny where Bryn's like you know

this is Rebecca is honestly boring as hell and then we get a great montage of her being boring as hell being like yeah yeah what you need is local honey you know this headband The problem is that it makes my nose look big. What else does she say?

She says, oh, yeah, the pigeon toe thing is just like a really good odd point, like montage of a few moments of her just seeming like the most boring person at this party. So that was one moment where the editors are like, okay, we got to back print up on this one. Like, because yes, she is boring. You know what was also a really great moment was when they're at the birthday party and one of those women's like, I'm a cancer. And they're like, I'm a cancer too.

I'm like, I'm sure lots of people have described you that way as well. Let's talk strategy. Were there any strategic decisions that's about to you, Dan? Like from an editor's perspective or from just general? In terms of gameplay, like social positioning, that sort of thing. Oh, well, obviously the confrontation at the birthday party was a big move. And I want to say, first of all, the woman that she was confronting, he's a little bit old. older, props for having

some gray in her hair on a show like this. Like I did not expect that. Yeah, I totally thought everyone was going to be Botoxed and died up to the wazoo or up the wazoo. You know what I mean? Like, I thought it was going to be everyone's fake as hell. But, you know, she seems like a very real

looking person. I thought that was an interesting dynamic that she brought to the party by dressing up like the dad because it gave her higher status than everyone else in just that party. And then when the confrontation happened,

she was like, oh, yeah, I don't know what you're talking about. You know, and so it felt like, like that the way that the edit went, the woman who was confronting her, it felt like she didn't have any real ammo.

Like, and whether or not that's true. Yeah. When she's like, you know, you did this and you did that. And she's like, no,

you're just like, you know, misconstruing things. And like, it just, it felt like she was the one that was desperate in that situation. just by the way that they edited it.

And then when it came out, like, the thing she was confronting her out of was just, it felt so stupid. Like, she's like, oh, I was always like on your team and I was always like, you know, on your side. And then I just felt like I wasn't. Like I can't remember the full detail there, but it felt very limp. Like the whole, the whole argument came out and I was like, that's it. Like, you know, this whole thing. It's not like Jenna sold your Bitcoin or anything.

I felt like that. The woman who confronted her got a real villain at it, though, on this episode for sure. Okay, so I thought that this was a really interesting thing because, yeah, as I was watching this initially, up until the very end of this conflict, I was like, what the hell is Aaron even upset about? Like, I can't make heads or tails over why she has an issue with Jenna. And then when we got the discussion between Jenna and Aaron, it was that Aaron isn't. mad at Jenna. She's mad at Bryn. That's who she's actually angry at. And she wants to use this as a way to drive a wedge between Jenna and Bryn because she's already put to bed the issue that she has with Bryn. Like

one of the things that we've talked about and has been pointed out this season is that Bryn likes to put conflicts to bed and then find new ones where she's got better footing. She has successfully done this with Aaron. They have resolved their issue. So Aaron doesn't feel like she's got any justification to be upset with Bryn, but she's still obviously harboring resentment. So she's trying to start a fight with Jenna over this really nebulous idea of whether or not she's being a good friend or not. Like there's really nothing concrete there.

But she wants to engage in like a dialogue with Jenna where she has the opportunity to to convince her that Brin is the problem. And she's laying the groundwork here for that. And we see that at the end where she's telling Jenna that, you know, Brin is embellishing things and that she's like jealous and opportunist and that she's the problem. And I was like, oh, that's what's going on. She's, she's not mad at Jenna. That's why it doesn't make any sense.

This conflict doesn't make sense. But she wants to have a way to express to Jenna. how she feels about her relationship with Bryn. So I thought that that was really interesting. I feel like this is not a very well calculated move. Like I don't think that she put a lot of thought into this. I think she was just going with her gut. She was like, this is like subconsciously what, what she's doing.

But I thought it was interesting. I think that the, the strategic decision that was maybe a mistake here was Brin leaving Jessel's party because she allowed this conversation to take place where she's not able to manage it. It feels like, you know. Yeah. Do you expect her to just not go to her spray tut appointment that you just made, Craig? Come on. You can't ask the impossible. They had a 940 available. Yeah.

In chess terms that Brin will understand, I feel like that's a blunder. It felt like the confrontation was like when you dump, like you ever see that video of the raccoon who's still cotton candy and then tried to wash it and it all disappeared. The second she brought her argument into the light of day, it all just melted away and was like, oh, it turns out you don't really have a problem with it. That was really funny. That's also the way Jeddah handles it too, right?

Like, Jeddah is, and it is amazing that she shows up dressed as Dan Hedea and like refuses to drop the bit, refuses to put down the phone. Like it's just completely fixated on keeping this prop giant cell phone on her ear at all times just like hyper focused on playing this character at all times which is hilarious and and and like you said it does give her a higher status role too like she does kind of have a higher status like business person role within the like actual real world of the show and she like manages to assume that by having a joke costume uh in in the show but she you're right dan she completely it was coature actually i think i think it came across as coature i mean it's not that

from the way she normally dresses, actually. She wears like neckties and oversized men's shirts all the time in her real life. So that's kind of just her wardrobe. Rocking it. But you're right, that she does seem to kind of dissolve the dispute. And I think the way she handles that it is part of, it's not just the fact that Aaron handles it so badly. Though it is partly that too. But it's like the way that Jenna is just always like, I'm not aware of any tension. I'm not aware of any problem. Is there something wrong with you? Because why don't you talk to me about it? It's just like really dissolves it. Also, Abe is such a terrible surrogate for Aaron. He's worse at this than Aaron is. And it's so funny how like Abe like tries to bring it up. And then immediately just folds as soon as like Jenna like makes the slightest interrogation of what he's trying to say. He's just immediately like, I don't. Did I say that there was. I didn't mean to say there's attention.

And Jenna's like, aren't you a lawyer? Like why are you? No, not good at speaking. But that was really good. And like you said, I felt like Aaron was trying to like really make something happen. And it did just dissolve like the raccoon's cotton candy. That's spot on. I have come around to Aaron so much.

I think that she does add a lot to this. And, you know, it's in kind of a way like Shannon Bador where there's not a lot of calculation that is going on here. But the way that she's very clumsily operating within the strategic landscape here, it just kind of works. It works for me. I think that she's emotionally reactive to everything that is going on. And, yeah, I feel like she's a good addition. Oh, someone like that on a show like this is a casting director's dream come true. A person who wears their emotions on their sleeve and gets upset at, like, the slightest things.

you know, that's someone you're like, yes, they are going to stir the pot, like, for us. I think yes and no, because she is not going to ever be a fan favorite. Like, there's not going to be legions and legions of Aaron fans, because she does come across as kind of boring. She doesn't get really favorable, relatable edits ever. I think it's great for the tension on these shows. It's like a, like a Katie Maloney. There's not legions of Katie Maloney fans on. Vanderpump rules, but it just adds this like numb droning tension to every scene that

she's on. And I think it, it works, it works for me. I'm a fan of it. Some villains are beloved in the history of these shows or, or? Totally. Yeah, absolutely. And then some are, what makes a good villain? Like what compared to her? Well, I think the, the thing is, you can play it so many different, different ways. Like, there's, there's, there's, So many different ways to play a villain. I think Aaron is honestly kind of a version of one of my favorite housewives who is maybe the most hated housewife is Teddy Mellonkamp. I think that she was someone that is just like a little bit messy, doesn't really know what she's doing, but just like tightly wound and adds like this annoying tension to every scene that she's on. and the fan base is just so triggered by Teddy Mellencamp.

I can see Aaron going in that trajectory where people just hate absolutely everything she does because it's just so fucking annoying. And I love it. I love someone's ability to just get under people's skin just by being who they are. I had to Google Teddy Mellon camp, but we found it. Yeah, I see what you mean, though. Yeah, you don't want a villain that is not just unlikable, but doesn't really have anything going on in their own right, in their own storyline, you know? There's a certain level of sustainability that you have to have as a villain because you can't just like go out in a blaze of glory and then not have any relationships the next season so that you can come back.

Like you can't burn every single bridge. You just constantly need to be, you know, starting new fights and sometimes, you're involved in them. Sometimes they're between others. Sometimes you're just lying and manipulative. Sometimes you're just, you know, there's so many ways to play it. I think of the office. Do you remember season one

of the office, Michael Scott was just unlikable? And then after season two, he became the likable, inappropriate guy, right? Because there would always be a little piece at the end of an episode where he'd do something nice or he'd show that he's kind to children or that, you know, there's

always some little thing that he would do to kind of win you back afterward. And I feel like that probably makes a good villain. Like someone who does do the odd good thing, even though they're constantly annoying people. Yeah, I don't think you necessarily need to be, like have anything that really redeems yourself in order to stay on, on these shows, to be honest.

Like, I think you can, you can probably play just being straight villain without, you know, risking your paycheck. But yeah, it definitely helps to have a little bit of nuance. What kind of things end up with people leaving the show or not being brought back for a season? I imagine they're on like a year-to-year agreements probably so they can keep fluctuating or? Yeah. So when you are like a full cast member, you want to make sure that you are showing some sort of element of your personal life that is kind of independent of what is going on socially with

in the group typically. But also you want to be involved in conflict. Not necessarily just conflict, but you want to be involved in the group dynamics in some way and just be compelling on screen. If you're, you know, ticking off at least, you know, two of those boxes, then you're going to be brought back. If you're not, if you're not really bringing anything,

you could get downgraded to either a friend of or just not return back. Here's a question that takes it back to the episode. We just talked about the Salt Lake City one. Do you think Brin is making a move, or Bronwyn is making a move to slowly push Heather off the show by not inviting her on a trip and all that kind of stuff? No, I don't think so.

I don't think she's got the position to do that, and I don't think that she knows that. I don't think Heather is at a risk of being kicked off the show. at this point. I think she's done enough this season that she'll be back. She's got a big enough history with the show. I don't think that there's any risk

of Heather not coming back. I'd be pretty shocked at this point if she didn't come back unless something big happens later this season. Right. Okay. Let's get into our highlights. Dylan, what were your highlights here? You know, we're talking about villainy.

So I just want to like reintroduce something that I just said a little bit earlier, are barely highlight rated. But do you think that like Brin is taking a villain turn in this episode? Do you think that she's moving into villainy at this point? Would you agree with that, Craig? Yeah. And I think that's.

Yeah. Yeah. And that was kind of like the capstone on it for me, right? Like I thought Bryn was, she's just getting as intense as we've ever seen her. You know, she's really dialing it up. She always likes to make kind of mean comments to other people, especially Jess. That's great. That's part of her personality.

part of the fight of her. But she's really getting like emotional and you know, calling sci a troll that lives under the Brooklyn Bridge and stuff. And I feel like there's been enough things that's happening this episode where she's been misinterpreted or her attempts to like to be kind of big brained and like tell people how they should present on camera as we saw in the previous episode have backfired. And I've shown that she's kind of overplaying her hand. She's been too confident that she's at this point is kind of flailing a and she's attacking a little bit more indiscriminately and is kind of like losing her grip on the narratives and is flailing out a bit and I think that really came through in this.

That was one of the most compelling parts of about it to me. And the fact that she seems to very gratuitously insult Jessel at the end of the episode, which I think Britta's always kind of taken it for granted that she can just insult Jessel as much as she likes. And Jessel's like never going to take offense because Jessel's just too wishy-washy to do that. But I think this is another example of Brind is pushing it too far. and just like she seems to like just decide that she's going to like leave the party. It's openly insulting Jessel and removing herself from these conversations. And it just felt like the capstone of her surrendering ground and just turning into a more of a kind of destructive presence in the show.

Is Jessel the one whose birthday party it was? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, okay. So the comedy you're talking about when she was saying like I think your three outfit changes are. or lame or whatever, but I think it's awesome because you're crazy. Yeah. There's lots of things.

Like when Jessel says she's going to do a clueless party, Bryn's like, yeah, that's so suitable for you, clueless, you know. But what I mean by the capstone insult is her just saying like, oh, I have a spray town appointment. Look, it's on my phone. I got to go. Bye. Yeah.

That was pretty bad. I think she's absolutely, I don't really know her, but if I had to guess, she was already a villain. So, you know, that's definitely taken a turn. Yeah, I think that this cast is still so new, and they all still are trying to, like, drive towards equilibrium. Like, we see where Real Housewives with Salt Lake City, they're happy to be in very unstable and imbalanced positions

where, you know, things are volatile, and, you know, there's always someone that is not, settled. But we've talked a lot about this season how everyone on this cast wants to like shower their conflicts with love and try to get everything back into a settled position. Um, Bryn is kind of bucking that. She's really causing conflict with everyone and, uh, being, being clumsy and messy and just, yeah, I think, I think she's totally, uh, I think she's definitely doing the heel turn this season. And, uh, um, becoming a villain.

I don't think that this is something that we're going to see her just be a villain for her entire time on this show. I think that it's a season-long villain arc, and then, you know, next season, there's going to be new conflicts, and she might take more of a backseat there and go back to the role that she has. I, I, I, I, I, if she's, if she's back, like, there's, there's ways that you can take this, this heel turn and become a villain. And like I said, it's unsustainable and you don't have the relationships. at the end of the season in order to continue. Like we saw Monica's performance on last season of Real Host Wides of Salt Lake City.

She was this very compelling character. And then there's one conflict at the end that she was unable to resolve at the reunion and not be able to persist those relationships. And no one wanted to have relationships with her. So she's off the cast. That is definitely something that could happen to Bryn, depending on.

how this conflict continues. If she's able to, if she just like continues isolating everyone and people being like, I, you know, I don't want to work with Bryn, then it's possible that we see her not come back. I think that would be a shame because I liked what we saw from her last season. I think that that is a really good look. And so far, I think she's doing a good job of being, being a villain. So let's see if she can strike that balance. Yeah, yeah, I agree.

And I think what's going to prevent Brin from ever truly being. frozen out from the rest of the group is that a lot of the strength from the various people in the group really comes from proximity to Jenna Lyons. I think there's still a lot of shuffling to try to be close to her. And I think Bryn knows that she can always kind of cozy up to Jenna when she wants to just by being like flirty and vulnerable. And Jenna's always going to be like, oh, come over here, you. You're my pal. So I think knowing that she's always has a way to like get a shortcut to being like Jenna's friend is going to like stop her from actually being frozen out by everybody. Yeah, that's a relationship that she needs to continue to maintain, though.

She needs to make sure she doesn't break that trust because we see that, you know, this relationship that she's got with Jenna is so important to Brin in terms of like the power structure and the social structure here. But also this relationship that Jenna has with Brin is really important to Jenna. And that's something that Brin needs to keep feeding. Like that trust needs to remain intact because we talk about. how we talked about in the Hamptons you know Jenna using this complicated dessert although YouTube commenters told us that that's

not actually that complicated to make but still she used this dessert that required a lot of attention she used it as a social crutch we see her do the same thing here with the costume with the phone that she's using and the props she she's an

introvert who looks for social crutches to you know in order to like find comfort and to help her operate within these social situations. Brin is one of her social crutches right now. She is someone that she trusts. She's someone that she trusts to help her operate and maneuver here. And because she's able to like have playful banter with,

with Brin. So I think that this is a relationship that is equally as important to Jenna as it is to Bryn. And Brin needs to make sure that she doesn't isolate, uh, isolate herself. Totally. I believe it's Pavlova that you're talking about. Pavlova, yes, that's what I'm talking about. Australian.

Let's talk. Did we go through everyone's highlights here? There's a couple more that I'd probably mention. I thought the champagne at the clothing store was a wonderful illustration of the alternate reality that these people live in. they're going clothing shopping at like a fendi store or something like, don't us to pop a bottle of champagne. Like, yeah,

why not? I'm just like, uh, I've never had that experience in my life. Never had someone at Old Navy been like, you guys want to spend the afternoon here? Let me get you hammered. That happens to me all the time when I go to Valley Village and they're like,

hey, I got a couple warm cans of Labat Extra back here. It says they're from 1990. They came in with some. stuff. You guys need to have a champagne and chiennes session, it sounds like. I was also, I wrote, I bet you, like, with all the shit talking that was going on at the clothing store, I wrote down, I bet you their group chats and DMs must be the funniest

shit in the world. Like, it's got to be just, like, constantly taking stuff the wrong way for the sake of it, or, like, choosing to fight with each other, or, you know, saying rude things about each other. I just thought it was super funny. And then also, another thing I wrote down too is, so the woman whose birthday was, you said her name was Jessel or something like that? Yeah. Yeah.

Jesel. What is her accent? Because I wrote down, it sounded like New York plus England plus Moira from Schitts Creek. I don't know if you're where you're getting much New York out of that, but she's definitely English. And then like this, you know, like Moira from, like Schitt's Creek. It just felt really weird. You know, like there were a few words that she said,

Rose, like, huh? That's not even transatlantic. That's like something else. Yeah, she's definitely British. Dylan, who are your stars here? So first star Bryn, she was just the most interesting. She was going off. She was getting intense.

And it's making great TV. Let's give a second star to sigh. I still feel like I'm not. really seeing this like emotional growth she's talking about but at least this episode we got that great metaphorical structure for it when we got to see a lot of her family life uh so so we're getting a lot of interesting stuff from her too um to give a star to uba who we haven't mentioned because she is a painter and i thought a couple of the campuses they showed at first were actually like i thought really good some of the kind of rose ones with kind of electric colors and then the more

we see of them like i feel like the shittier they get but i think she's she's she's She's got some interesting art going on there. It's another aspect to her. And it's, you know, kind of an interesting contrast between her kind of, you know, immigrant perspective of being like this is like all coming from me and my relationship to my world. I'm painting directly with my fingers, not even using a brush. It's me in the canvas, which seems very different from the approach that size trying to take to her well-being and being like I'm trying to learn how to be more connected and grow things and take my mom out of the closet and put her in the tree and all that stuff. There's a comparison to be made there that I thought's interesting. But instead, I'm going to give my third star to Mona May, who is the costume designer on the hit 1995, Amy Heckling movie Clueless,

whose great costumes inspired everything everybody was wearing in this episode. Also, the costume designer on Romeo me and Michelle's high school reunion, never been kissed, the Roxbury wedding singer. So a lot of what you think of as like 1990. Chinese like bubble gum pop aesthetic is coming from from her costume design. So a little shout-out. I love that. Great. Yeah, tag her in the comments. Yeah. Yeah, those are those are great stars. Dan, how about you? I thought Jenna, like being someone who came into this cold, I thought Jenna had the most like status energy and I felt like she was kind of the most grounded.

maybe I'm totally out to lunch saying that in general but not like she was the most with it and was the one that people were most impressed with especially her costume choice and then the one trying to confront her and then kind of fading and melting away like

what was the line like I wrote down it was super funny that she's like oh you know I always loved you I just don't want to be your friend anymore I'm like that doesn't make sense you know and like and she got to the bottom of that quickly just by being like I don't know what you're talking about, you know, and that was a very real reaction that someone, I think,

should have to a moment like that where someone's calling you out, you can be like, what are you talking about? Like, especially if you don't know what they're talking about, you know, if you're genuine about it. I also thought Bryn would be the second one because of the very similar reasons that Dylan gave, like, she spiced up that party in a big way. Like, leaving to go get a spray tan is like exactly what I would expect from a show like this, you know, like, and then everyone getting mad at her and her being like, I don't give a shit. You know, like, I don't know why everyone's so mad. Like, yes, you do.

You know exactly what. As she's leaving, she's like, Irish exit. It's like, an Irish exit is not where you tell everybody that you're leaving. It's not what an Irish accent. No, again, misusing phrases because they've just heard people say them, you know. I would like to say, like, Uber, I thought it was an interesting but not. Like, she's an interesting character, but I didn't find her interesting. So I felt like, like, her story was compelling.

She's from Ethiopia. She moved to America, became a model. To Canada, apparently. I didn't know she was Canadian. Oh, Canada. I didn't know that. And she built a business and then she's painting now. The thing that's hard for me to get on board with, though, is like, like, what

she's describing as hard work, probably was hard work. But it's also a lot like winning the lottery. You know what I mean? Like, like, yes, you moved from a difficult. situation, but you were also naturally beautiful enough to be paid for the way you look, which is probably a dream for a lot of people. Just wake up in the morning and go get paid for being attractive. And then she's like, now I'm doing finger painting.

And I'm like, this is exactly what happens when people get paid for being attracted. Like, I'm doing something anyone can do now. Let's all be proud of it. And it's like, yeah, all right. You know, like, yeah, like Dylan said, some of them are decent, but some of them were just like, mishmashes of color and stuff. I do like Raquel's assessment there, like when, if you ask your friend who's in the art world to like give you their opinion on your work and what they say is, in my opinion, there's no bad art.

That is the worst thing they could possibly say. Like they are spit roasting you right there. Yeah. I like how the one piece that Raquel was interested in like that she thought was striking was this like picture of the flag. and it's like asking to speak. Just like Jasper John's knockoff. Really?

And Uber gives like just the most like literal interpretation of it possible. Like there's not a ton of nuance to it. Like obviously it's really personal. It's expression. It's art. Yeah. But like Raquel is definitely like looking for a little bit more here. And Uber's just like, well, it's gold.

Because when I look at the country, I see gold. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that was funny. Though to dial it back a bit, like I said, I do think some of the pieces are really interesting. And everybody should try to express themselves through art. So I don't want to, I don't want to art shape Uber too much. I loved her friends dress with the jean pants on top of them, though.

Like, did you see that? Did you notice that at all? Like, her friend when she came over to the apartment, had a frilly dress on that had the top layer of jeans sewn on to the front of it. it. So it was like a dress with jeans on top of it. I thought that was amazing. Probably very expensive if I had to guess, but that was amazing. Yeah, my star, my number one star, I think I'm going to give it to Bryn just for all the reasons that we mentioned. Two is going to be Aaron actually because I think that this conflict in the way that she has kind of handled herself with Jenna, I was surprised by how compelled I was by it.

At the end, 2B is going to be Jessel, just for having this party. 2C is going to be Uba, for all the reasons that we mentioned. 2D, I don't know, I got, oh, SIE. How have I not mentioned SIE? SIE had such a great, great arc here. I think she actually deserves to be number two here because, yeah, I think that, I think she deserves to be number two, a one. lowercase eye.

Yeah, exactly. You just one question that I had the whole time at Jessel's party was, what are the husbands talking about? Like, I was curious to know if they were douchebags, like nightclub style douchebags, or if they were like, you know, nerdy guys who hit it big and were like, I'm finally going to have a hot wife now, you know? I think the, based on, we got a little glimpse of Pavit and, uh, and Abe talking. And that definitely was much more nerdy guys.

who just doesn't win a lot of arguments around that house. We heard them talking about who can hold their breath the longest underwater is the clip that we got. So. Yeah. Which is so great. I think the season opener had a great moment like that too where we had like all the women having like very intense, emotionally involved arguments. And we cut over to them and they're saying something like, what's the loudest you've ever

burped? Yeah. Just the stupidest. Like boy. Cool. Conversations. Yeah. And finally, my number three star for this week is Gideon, who we got a shot of on a

FaceTime with Bryn, who I was happy to see. There's something just very charming about him. So shout out to Gideon. Yeah. Okay. Well, thank you so much for doing this. Dan, this has been a ton of fun. Do you want to let everyone know where they can find you?

Yeah. So I go by the Canadian computer collector. You can find me mostly on YouTube, as I like to say. I've got socials like instant Twitter and Facebook, but definitely go on YouTube and check out the Canadian Computer Collector. We just did a crazy unhinged Halloween live stream where we built a supercomputer that can predict the future. Since this is a completely different area of that, we basically got a friend to sit at a laptop off screen and type back crazy answers for people.

in the chat who asked the question. And man was in fun. We set everything up like a mad scientist's lap. Awesome. Dylan, how about yourself? This is going to be your last show for a bit. We're going to have Tim Gray filling in for you. So leave us off on.

Yeah, good luck, Tim. He's screwed already. You can find me on Substack as Dylan Ferguson. I write about movies. Awesome. I'm Craig Midwinter. You can just find me on our Bravo Outsider Socials at Bravo.

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