Oscars Outsider - RHOBH Finale & VPR S11E04 Recap/Analysis (feat. Deeply Superficial)

Episode Date: February 23, 2024

This week hosts Craig Midwinter and Dylan Ferguson are joined by Siobhan of the Deeply Superficial ( @DeeplySuperfish ) for a discussion about the relationship between truth and drama in terms of how it exists in films based on true stories and reality tv! We also dig into S11E04 of Vanderpump Rules and the finale of The Real Housewives of Beverly Hills (S13E17). 🍸Featured Bravolebs: Vanderpump Rules: Lisa Vanderpump, Tom Schwartz, Tom Sandoval, Ariana Madix, Katie Maloney, Scheana Shay, Lala Kent, James Kennedy, Ally Lewber, Brock Davies RHOBH: Kyle Richards, Erika Girardi, Dorit Kemsley, Garcelle Beauvais, Crystal Kung Minkoff, Sutton Stracke, Annemarie Wiley 📣 Stay Connected: Find Deeply Superficial on youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCiXdHTcagmshRCLv3iMq4Mg Find Dylan Ferguson on Substack at https://dylanferguson.substack.com/ Find Bravo Outsider on Instagram at ⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/bravooutsider https://www.bravooutsider.com 📖 Credits Music by FASSounds from Pixabay

One thing I love is that kind of the new James B-roll is just a plane flying by and you know now we're in a James scene. Hello and welcome to Bravo Outsider. I'm your host Craig Midwinter, joined again by Dylan Ferguson. Dylan, how's it going? Good. Happy to be here with you guys. Cheers. Having a little stout.

This is part of my semi-sober curious journey. I'm allowed this. Yeah. indulging today? Yeah, as people who are in by sober, this is what we do sometimes. Excellent. And we're super excited to be joined

by the brains behind one of my favorite Bravo YouTube channels. It's Chavon of Deeply Superficial. Diamonds aren't a girl's best friend. Real Housewives analysis is. Excellent. That's a great one. So I mentioned when I was

kind of bringing you out, you've got one of my favorite Bravo YouTube channels. I find that a lot of the Bravo fan community really focuses on a lot of the gossip surrounding the series, but you are very focused on what's going on on screen and really diving deep. And you do great analysis of like characters and character dynamics. You want to let people know about your channel and how you approach things? Yeah. Well, thank you so much. That means a lot to me. So yeah, So it's kind of more not focused on current day, kind of looking at past dynamics, really analyzing what went into that. Looking at kind of performance in this season, I'm really into, I noticed you guys were into this too, kind of the strategy behind housewives.

So I've one on Tamara, who of course is one of our biggest strategist. So who are some of your favorite all-time housewives then? So Tamara, obviously. I have an hour long look at her. So I love Tamara. I love her as a housewife. Fadra's another person that's always been one of my favorite housewives to watch. Oh, yeah.

And it got kind of, you know, kind of shaky. I have a video on her in Candy, but it got kind of shaky and saying, like, I like Fadreira because there was such an asterisk. Like, obviously, I don't like the fallout with candy. But so it's kind of interesting to see how, as she's in her kind of Fadresa era, how that's kind of playing out. Aside from that, I really like Alex McCord from, you know, the OG of NYC. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, I like Sutton currently. I love Lisa Barlow. I think she's just one of the most entertaining people in the world. So really, I genuinely like most Housewives, but those are for sure some of my favorites. Yeah, that's a very diverse selection, too. It's not just, like, strictly villains. I think one of the great things that we see on Housewives is we do have such a wide variety of characters. Of course, we see, like, the archetypes that you would expect on a show like this, but they're played

so differently. Like the way that Lisa Rina plays a villain is so different from someone like, you know, Kelly Dodd for, for example. Another person who's like, I really like as a housewife, but, you know, with an asterisk that she engages in a lot of very like problematic behavior off camera. Yeah. So you said that you were most excited to talk about real households of Beverly Hills. So let's, let's start with that. I want to start with a new segment that we're going to call housewife headlines. If you had to sum up this episode in a single attention grabbing headline, what would that be? We finally get answers, question mark on Kyle and Maricio. Yeah, that's a really good summary. So do you think that we got the answers? I mean, not really. We did get it talked about,

but kind of as I was really thinking about what was the true nature of their breakup, like what happened. we didn't really, it was, it was kind of a lot of saying nothing, if that makes sense. So I'm still not, I have theories for sure, but I'm hoping, based on the reunion trailer, that they are able to ask her more like direct questions, because I found it was kind of clear to me just how much power Kyle has on the show with how this was handled because really just there was nothing about, you know, the Morgan of it all or, or it was just a lot of kind of not giving a direct answer. Totally.

And one of the things that I had written down in my notes on this was like, Kyle is just a master of giving just enough, like, but not giving it all away. Like it was compelling. Like it was a compelling scene that we got with her and the family. But it's still, like you said, we don't really get any answers. And there's all sorts of questions that are still floating around. Let's talk about the storytelling on this. Dylan, anything jump out to you?

In terms of like the visuals of this episode, I just thought it was really weird to have the Kyle's white party in the SoFi Stadium and just have this like in theory, you know, cool. She gets to use the entire football stadium. Like that's that's a flex. Like yeah, that's cool. In theory. But in practice, it's like this gigantic cavernous space with like, looks like 35 people in it. And like get clustered around a little stage in the middle. And it just feels like a terrible dynamic for a party.

And I just like that being the setting for like the final party of the season. That's just in this huge empty space full of like empty bleachers. And it's it's just so not conducive to a party atmosphere. Like I feel that parties are better the more tight the spaces. You know, it's like physics, right? It's like like like gases have to be like under pressure for like energy to form. Like, that's why in parties, people just end up clustered in the kitchen. It's like a smaller space.

It just happens automatically. I don't know. It's some Newton law or something. But you've got, what do you've got a giant fucking stadium with a few little people in the middle? It's like, there's no way the vibes are going to be good. It's just going to be like, like, just kind of awkward for everybody. And, you know, Erica has to make her big entrance. Like she's like, you know, Adonnas Creed or something.

And it just like, it just falls fucking flat because you, you just. The walk is too long, yeah. You're just in a giant expanse of astroturf with nobody in these miles of bleachers around you. And some like palm trees spray painted white. So I guess I just enjoyed that as the setting, just the awkwardness of it all. Yeah, totally. And that walk-up, like it seems so cool in theory, but because it's such a long walk-up, it really nerfs the impact of that entrance because we see.

like with Kyle's entrance, no one even notices when she first steps out. And like you said, with, with Erica's entrance, it's just, it takes such a long time to get there that the impact of coming out of the stadium and making a grand entrance is just like does not have this, like, the explosion that you would think it would. Especially with just like flat stadium lighting. Like there's no like laser beams. There's no like towers of flames going off like ACDC style. You know, you got to get some of that going on if you really want to make an impact. But no, that's,

I put that all on Kevin Lee's feet. He fucked that up. He's used to planning for Lisa Vanderbom, not Kyle, okay, cut him a break. Yeah, I think one of the things that I really enjoyed about how this story was told,

and how it wrapped up this season was the, the Erica Jane's journey, the way that this kind of ended and we got it like, book ended with, you know, Erica at the very first episode, she puts out there that, you know, she's a showman. And we haven't seen that in such a long time. And so to get some resolution at the end and the final number being, you know, her being an actual showman and kind of landing on her feet, I thought that that was a really good subtle arc. Like she wasn't front and center this for the emotional core of this season.

But it was like compelling enough that it was one of the better Erica Jane seasons that I think we've had. And so to give a nod to her actually resolving that yes, she is indeed a showman, I really appreciated that. Yeah, totally. I noted that too because like you mentioned, we have that conversation about her being a showman right off the first episode of the season. So that is kind of interesting that we have her at the end. She says, like, one of the last things we ever say is, like, the only happiness I have is on that stage. And I feel like a lot of the season, we've been kind of trying to search for a little shred

of humanity in Erica Jane, like, just kind of trying to, try to sift for a little bit of gold dust or something. Like, is there any real humanity going on inside that woman? And I think that we kind of get the key to that is, is that her, like, you know, I think she's telling the truth there, her happiness, when she feels actually, like, most fulfilled the presence is when she is big a show, but is when she's up on that stage. And that gives us a little something that could be like relatable and make her seem more human. Totally.

The one thing that I want to like call out in terms of missed opportunities for storytelling, Sutton totally should have entered on on her horse. Like she should have come in on her horse. She's like this got this newfound independence that she's fully embracing and it would have been great. But understandable that they wouldn't have been able to do that. Yeah. Chavon, did anything come to mind for you?

Yeah, I mean, talking about Erica, I kind of wanted to hear your perspectives on, I feel like for Erica, a big theme has been redemption that she's gotten her life back together. I really liked, it kind of mirrored Sutton as well, this episode of talking about how she's the one that's gotten her life back together. Like, she's made those positive decisions. I found that to be kind of inspiring in a way. But I find that this season has been really about her redemption. So I was just curious, do you guys think that she's found redemption?

Yeah, that's really interesting because I think, like, to her, it's definitely about redemption. I think that what we need to see from her or maybe the next sort of phase of her journey is coming to terms with the fact that she's not going to be redeemed in a lot of people's minds. And this is, we got some, like, closure on Sutton being like, oh, I realized that my, like, having a man and, like, being in a relationship is not the most important thing to me. It's not as important as I thought it was. And I feel like that's the kind of resolution that we need to get from, from Erica. Like she needs to come to terms that actually being redeemed in other people's minds is not the most important thing to her. So I, I think that there's more to be seen from her, whether or not she's the like personality type that would be able to like embrace that.

I think is TBD. But yeah, I'm excited to see where things go from here for Erica because it is like a reborn Erica that we're seeing. Yeah, for sure. Let's dig into our highlights on Beverly Hills. Chavon, what were your highlights here? One for sure was the Kevin Lee of it all. Yeah.

He's somebody, I mean, he has an annoyingness, I guess, to him. But I do enjoy him just as a character. and we got to see so many pop-ups of him in the early years. So it was nice to see him come back and get some LVP shade in there from Kyle, get some voiceovers of LVP. It kind of opened. Honestly, this whole episode will be a good LVP episode, but kind of opened up the door for like, you know,

we haven't forgotten about her. Yeah. So I feel like they set it up where it's, you know, possible we could see her back. I would love to see it. I think that the, the cast needs LVP or some sort of energy like her, some sort of puppet master that's pulling strings and making things happen. This was like,

I liked a lot of things about this season, but as a whole, I wasn't, it wasn't the most engaging season of Beverly Hills that I think we've seen. So, yeah, I would fully be on board to see Lisa Vanderbump come back. Yeah,

I agree. I felt like this season, I did like a lot of it. Honestly, the Denise of it all was kind of a highlight for me. Oh, yeah. But I don't think it was a bad season, but I think that it just felt like it was missing something within the dynamic within the women. And I think it is some sort of strong personality.

I think it's the ghost of Lisa Rina or, you know, a possible Vanderpump comeback. I was feeling it, I felt, throughout this season, especially because Kyle was more preoccupied with her own stuff. So she wasn't kind of as organizing the women altogether like she normally might be. Yeah. And I think that if we got more out of Kyle's emotional storyline, like if she had been the season, it felt like it was sold as, you know, it's going to be Kyle's season. She's going to be the emotional center of this season. And I don't think that the season delivered on that. So maybe it's kind of a misalignment of my expectations going into this because I feel like this was Sutton's season.

She was the most compelling person this season for me. I thought that we saw her kind of fumble around and grow and really like step into. these shoes of the new Sutton that that she's got to fill. And I just thought that her arc was super rewarding. And we didn't get the emotional weight that I was expecting out of the Kyle, Mo Morgan storyline. Dylan, what are your thoughts there? I just want to remind everybody the time that Kevin Lee called Katie Maloney

fat and then like awkward. It was forced to apologize. That was in a Fanderbump rules like, I don't know, season, season eight maybe or something. You have much terror than this. You can't a little bit away. You have to work on it. I am. Seriously.

I'm coming as a friend. You're out of control now. I can tell you. And then like Katie, like, forced Lisa to force Kevin to apologize. It was like a super unsecere apology. Like it was just like did not seem to understand why somebody would want him to apologize for that. I don't have to say anything like that. Anyone again?

Okay. Sorry. You're for you. I'm sorry, dear. I love you, Lisa. He's just like in his own universe of just pure aesthetics. He's like a mad genius. He has such great, great vision.

You know, everything he, it always comes together so nicely. But he, like with this episode with Kyle's like, I don't want it to be all about me and she gets there and it's a jacking. gigantic Kyle on the floor. I mean, with LVP, it was constant. I love the banter between LVP and Kevin, but with Pandora's wedding, like, it's going to be a million dollars. And she's like, no, like, it's not going to me. He just has no batteries. Yeah, one of the all-time great Bravo eccentrics that we've seen. Great to see him return. We've already touched on it, but I do like Sutton's story arc because we get the closest thing to closure. I think that's already even brought up that we get of anybody here.

Like, I do like that we got to have her talking to her daughter and saying, like, never lose your independence. Like, that's like the kind of the key message that she's settled on over the course of this season. So that feels like the storyline that's most, like, close to being resolved. Um, I do think she's being like way too hesitant about dating to. What is that guy's name? Who she's like, just like, stop seeing after.

Well, she's like, he ghosted me and came back after two days. So I was like, we're not talking anymore. And maybe it's just like the dead. It beated me, but I'm like, he didn't ghost you if he texted you back and two days. He texted you late. That's not the same thing as ghosting you. So, um, but that was still like, you know, a very satisfying story arc that we got for her. To circle back to Kyle, like, I'm pretty much agree with exactly what you said, Chavon, and that, like, so first of all, when we get like the, like, stand by me, where are they now, uh, text cards?

like 25 minutes into the episode. Right away, I'm like, fuck yeah. That means that they're going to have like a spicy coda. They're going to tack on the end because there's like 20 minutes left here. And they're already like, you know, pretending to end it. You know,

they're already doing like the Lord of the Rings fake ending things. I'm like, all right, what do we got? What do we got going on? And it was very unsatisfying. We got, we didn't get much of anything at all.

We got like some like real. like really forced awkward footage of like Kyle like pretending to I don't know look at her phone and blend something and then another conversation like between her and Mo that like doesn't provide us with any details about anything and and her confessionals that also don't provide us with any details at all really and just kind of like just vague gesturing towards something being not great in the relationship but we're also not separating or Are we? I don't know. Like, it's so vague.

And you already brought that up, Chauvin. We were talking about this last show, that this is kind of the downside of having these, like, OG power players in the show is that they, they, you see, um, their ability to flex their like ghost producer muscles when they don't want the information to, to come out. And I think that's what, like you've said, that's what we've been seeing with Kyle. And that makes for an unsatisfying ending. So I was pretty disappointed with the Coda. that just kind of didn't really give us much of anything at all.

Yeah, it was compelling, but completely unsatisfying. Like, I thought going into this season that that was going to be the starting point for this, for this season. I thought we were going to start with a conversation like that between Mo and Kyle. And I was waiting for that the entire season. And it only happened to the last like 20 minutes of the season, as opposed to, you know, right out of the gate. it was really unsatisfying, like you said. Yeah, I completely agree. I also feel like this season left a lot on the floor.

I was a bit disappointed that we didn't get more of the storyline between Crystal and her brother and Robb, because I found when we did get that, it was really compelling. And they keep cutting back to various scenes that they filmed about this. and it just, you know, never really materialized. And I feel like we could have done with a few fewer scenes of Dorit and Pekey doing like video calls on the phone and gotten a little bit more emotional weight out of, out of chrysal. Because I think that she has really grown as as a housewife and what she's like giving.

So it would have been nice to see that on screen. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's fair. We could have seen more of Crystal. We could have used her or a storyline a little bit more. Shavon, did you have any other highlights here? Ooh, highlights. I mean, I like seeing Erica perform.

Expensive is my favorite song of her. I also, I liked, Beverly Hills is good about this in their finale episode, kind of having so many people come back in with Cynthia Bailey and Jeff Lewis and Camille and Denise and all of that. I like kind of the throwback of the Denise. She's wearing pink and treats like, I don't know if I'm. and say something after last time. Yeah.

I really liked the Sutton storyline as well that you guys were talking about, kind of that scene of her with Porter telling her, don't lose your independence. And I think that this is interesting. Like for a woman, you know, you think you've, you know, landed the dream marrying this guy that has a bunch of money and you don't have to work and all of that. But just how much you kind of lose yourself in a dynamic like that.

And maybe it's not this dream that you were expecting it to be. I just, I love housewives are having these very like female centric storylines like this, kind of seeing the reality of a life like that. Yeah, totally. And I think that there's not like a lot of housewives couldn't really pull that off in the same way that Sutton was able to. I feel like she was very, um, like she comes across as very, very earnest when she's having like conversations like that and throughout everything that she does, she comes across as like very earnest. and you, even if like, I feel like you always can believe what is coming out of her mouth or she comes across as just very, very truthful.

And so that's why it seems so much more heartfelt, whereas like someone like Erica Jane, when we see her scene with Kyle, I thought that there was like a lot of, you know, she was speaking truthfully to her emotions, but it didn't really carry the same weight that, you know, someone like suddenly. having a heartfelt moment would have. That's because Sutton's got the Texas accent, and Erica just Jane's face doesn't move except for her lips when she speaks. It was kind of an interesting choice to have Erica be the one to have that one-on-one with Kyle. Oh, yeah. Because I get that she's, you know, she can, she had a very public divorce as well. She can relate maybe more than the other ladies.

But with Erica, it's kind of, she's so, I think, logic-based really isn't in touch with her emotion. She's having to like logic out why someone would feel that way. When Sutton and Kyle, I think, have a more emotional relationship. And obviously Doree, sorry, obviously Doree is more like traditionally Kyle's best friend. Obviously there's trouble in paradise between the two. We'll find out at the reunion. But yeah, I don't know. It's just kind of a bizarre choice to me to choose Erica for that moment. Yeah, totally. Before we move on to our picks, did either of you guys have anything weird that you wanted to call out? No, I mean, I think with the Kyle and Mauricio divorce, something I thought was weird is she was saying, or separation, she was saying there was nobody else involved,

but then she says in one moment, he did something that betrayed my trust that I can't recover from. I don't know. I just thought that that was weird. I almost, something that I haven't seen a lot of talk on, I wonder if some factor is the show, Maricio's show that he's doing on Netflix, if that could be, you know, kind of takes away from Beverly Hills or almost like he's found like fame independent sort of a thing. I don't know. I just wondered if there's some unspoken tension regarding that. Yeah, I'm hopeful that we get some sort of resolution on that or a few more questions answered because that was a little bit of a throwaway teaser that she gave. Let's go through our picks. We'll start with you, Chabon.

Okay. I think Kevin Lee. Yeah. I think Kyle was really a star of this episode. And then maybe Sutton or Erica, I think both had good kind of wrap-ups. Great, great picks. Dylan, how about you? Let's give a first start to Erica, because she's the one on the stage. We'll give a second start to Sutton. Again, good conclusion to an interesting story arc. Hmm. You know what? Because I'm frustrated with Kyle, I'm not going to give her a star. Let's just give a star to the ghost of Lisa Vanderpump. Yeah. Haunting the episode. Yeah, the ghost of Lisa Vanderpump and Kevin Lee get two of my stars for sure. And I have to give the other one to Sutton just because it's, it's been her season. And it's, yeah, she gave us great closure. So yeah, let's move on to Vanderpump rules. We'll start with a, you know, pump rules poll quote chavon if you want to summarize this episode in a compelling headline what would it be the tide start turning in sandal's favor oh yes yeah we we definitely saw that start taking place um let's talk about how this story was told um did either of you have anything in the storytelling mechanics that stood out to you one thing i love is that kind of the new james b roll is just a plane flying by and you know now we're in a James scene.

Dylan, how about you? Aesthetically, we do get another classic, like, showing up to Villa Rosa, a montage. Every time I pull up, I'm like, this house looks just like mine. I just love how they need to impress upon you that the people doing the walk-up are over-a-edged by her wealth and power. And there's a particular moment in that montage I really liked where like a diamond chandelier crossfades with one of her preposterous little dogs in pink pajamas standing at the top of a staircase looking down on the subjects. Just like absolute. I think Sophia Coppola would be proud of that moment. That was wonderful stuff there.

Plus a new VPR dog. We've got donut. Donut. Big name. More absurd than ever, just looks like, it looks like one of those fuzzy little caterpillars. Just, I think that, I think she just adopted a caterpillar and puts it in pajamas. It's like, yeah, it's a dog.

But that was great too because it serves the purpose that seat always scenes, those type of scenes always serve in the show, which is to like enforce the idea that we're now entering the realm of the real power. And, you know, you've already teased it. This was a moment where Lisa gets to flex her muscles a little bit. And I think in the first, after the first episode of Vanderpump, that we're talking about it, Craig. And you had brought up the question, you know,

is Lisa Vanderpom's power waning within the cast of the show? A fair question, right? Like a lot of them are off on their own ventures now. They're less dependent on her increasingly. And this was a very interesting episode to show her, like reasserting her power within the group. One of our guests, you know, referred to her. It was Don Lisa, by the way, that people line up to kiss the ring.

And this was a Don Lisa moment, right? Or, you know, gathering Lala and Shida and being like, okay, now you're going to start being, you're just going to start talking to Tom Sondival. You're going to start being nice to him because I told you to. Yeah. Yeah. It's funny because even the scene that we got between like Brock and Sheena and James and Allie where they're out for dinner, you can kind of see James come to the realization that, oh, he has to be on this team that is going to be bringing Tom Sandoval in because Lisa said so. Like Sheena brings the message from Lisa to him at the table and you can you can see him like resolved to the fact that, oh, this is this is the role because the boss says so.

Totally, yeah. Like we saw earlier James like kind of testing the water, just popping into Sandoval's party, being like, all right, is this, do I have to take into consideration the pro Sandoval faction? And he's like, oh, no, there's just a bunch of random fucking people here. I don't have to think about that at all. And then, yeah, this moment he's like, okay, I'm starting to realize that Lisa has put your weight behind him. Now I have to think about like hedging my bets a little bit and maybe putting some weight on the pro Sandoval side eventually or at least considering that. you really start to feel the dynamics start to shift after that moment.

Yeah, totally. I thought that there was a ton of interesting things visually in this episode. One little moment that I like that I thought was some kind of cute symbolism was when James is chugging the weed drink or whatever, and there's the fire going on behind him. James. California is over a room. James, you got fire going on. And then he has to go and deal with it. and he deals with it by fanning the flames.

And I thought that is just like so in line with his approach to like be oblivious to something. But then when he's called in to just like fan the flames and make things so much more worse, really, really love that. Another scene that I thought was really interesting visually was the scene that we got between Billy and Tom in the cold plunge. I just loved the way that this was shot, like the building music, the, um, the slow motion like baptism almost that that he had where he like puts his head under and comes up and he's got the water coming down the front of his face and and hair and um i i think it's tbd on what version of tom is being baptized or born here uh but i really love this as his like you know

his true birth into whatever season 11 version of tom sandibal is is going to be yeah he's really doubling down on the whole like survivalist. I've been through hell kind of thing where it's like I did like a survivalist TV show. We saw him like I pointed out earlier. We saw he's reading a book on like survivalism like SAS stuff. And now he's like I'm going to like you know go through the intense ice bath. And he's just really digging into that that whole like trying to summon that energy if I've been someone who's someone who's been through hell. It has now been hardened by it and come out the other side. Like, He really wants that to be his energy going forward, I think.

Yeah, I love that he was hardened by this, like, reality TV show where he got a, he went on Jojo Cua's back. Like, she gave him a piggyback. Yeah. Just like true hardcore survivalist shit right there. Let's dig into our highlights. Chavon, did you want to get a started there? Yeah, I thought that Lala was a major highlight this episode. I found kind of like with Sutton and Erica seeing just the, um,

the growth of Lala talking about how I like what she said. I don't want to wear my trauma like a badge of honor. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I thought that her conversation with Schwartz was just fantastic. I always love her with James. I think they have such great rapport, but I really liked the moment with them. And I thought Lala was really just a rock star this episode.

Yeah, I thought she showed a surprising amount of maturity and evolution. And like when she was talking to Schwartz, like that line you pointed out. And also she was saying something about how like I bought. You know, I learned to just not just say that my superpower is smelling bullshit and stuff. You know, like, it just shows like a lot of like continuing evolution on her part, which is pretty impressive. Yeah, one thing that I think was really interesting about what we got from Lala is I felt like I got so much more insight into how she kind of operates as a person. And when she was talking with Tom Schwartz and she was like, oh, you're a people pleaser. you're just like my dad and that eventually killed him.

I was reminded of all the different times that we've seen her kind of project Randall onto Tom Sandoval. And she really looks for analogs in her life to compare people to and almost reduces the person that she's comparing them to whoever she thinks of. And it really colors her view on the situation. So to see her do that here and see some, like, growing self-awareness in Lala, I agree. I thought this was a really compelling episode for her. Did you have any other highlight, Chabon? Yeah, I mean, I think that Lisa also was a highlight, kind of seeing her really back in the mix and kind of back to her, you know, puppeteering ways. Obviously, we talked about with the Sandoval stuff.

But honestly, I'm glad that she brought that up because I think that this Scandival was so interesting. intense. And I think that it is really reasonable that Tom would be affected in this way and kind of getting people to calm down a bit. I thought that that was really good. I know that there could be some level of the show can't go on if everybody's icing Tom out. So like I understand that how Lisa operates and that could be partly motivation. And I see the, you know, she's not doing the same for Rachel. But I still, I like that she stood up for him in that way. But then with the dog stuff with Graham at the And I found that to be kind of, did you guys listen to Rachel's, she did a podcast talking about the dog, like this whole situation? And kind of like, I don't know.

It just, I listened to it a while back and it kind of made me think of the way the show presented it was as if this was this great thing. Like the poor dog was dropped off and James is a savior. But in reality, the way Rachel phrased it was that James would often taunt the dog and would encourage these kind of biting behaviors that the dog really did have a. issue biting. And so, like, maybe it's not the best thing that James Kennedy is, you know, taking care of this dog that just needs some severe training. So I don't know. I thought that that was kind of like, I understand what she's doing, but maybe not the best

move to James without responsibility. Disciplined, levelhead is James Kennedy. That's the man for the job. I mean, the dog did seem excited to see him, but you know what other dog was excited? The dog in the zone of interest. Yeah, no, I totally agree. I think, like, people gave Rachel such a hard time about this decision to turn the dog over to a rescue instead of getting in touch with James. But I think, like, they didn't really consider the full picture of, like, how she was being treated by James in that moment.

Like, why would you want to re-engage with someone and give them? something that is, you know, a potential, like, piece of leverage to humiliate you more and, like, turn you into a monster. And, yeah, I, I don't blame her at all for turning, turning Graham over to a, uh, a rescue. Um, any other highlight, Chavon? Um, the lift driver story, I thought was really interesting. Ariana. Um, I know, very bizarre. Um, but yeah, I don't know. I'm just, I, another thing I found really interesting was kind of Schwartz's take on Ariana that she's really just becoming this like diva type person. And I'm really interested to see kind of how this plays out throughout this season. If we do start to see, you know, we saw that line from Lala in the trailer of like she gets

cheated on and thinks she's a god or whatever it was. But I don't know, just to see kind of the transition over because we're already seeing a lot of this social pressure that the cast is feeling to say like fuck Tom Sandoval he's the devil Ariana is a god and an angel on earth when obviously the situation's more nuanced like Tom was the bad guy in the situation for sure but it's not like it is there's gray area within it so yeah it's just interesting to see the cast kind of deal with that

especially Sheena who's somebody that's so easily swayed and so easily peer pressure to see you're kind of like with Lisa one way and then she's back with Ariana and Katie and is suddenly again in the fuck Tom Sondaval type of mode. I don't know. It's just an interesting dynamic to me. Yeah, it's going to be interesting to see if we do, like you say, we've had

kind of teased, if we do see more people start to kind of resent the way that Arianna is continuing to show like just such a hardline, inflexible attitude. And speaking of Sheena, one moment that stuck out to me was when she does like, you know, breaking up a bit and saying how hard it is for her to like ice out Sandoval after they've and good friends for so many years. And Arianna says, like, yeah, that wasn't real, though. Like, your friendship wasn't real. Like, that's a pretty harsh thing to say to somebody who's, like, like, very emotional about a friendship they've lost.

Like, it's kind of just invalidating her feelings. And I understand why Ariana's doing it. But if she keeps showing that kind of like cold in flexibility, it's going to be a lot harder for some people like Sheena to continue to be a 100% devoted to her, I think. Yeah. Yeah, I kind of think, like, strategically, do you guys think Ariane is making a misstep in being so hard-lined and so, you know, I won't engage with anybody who talks to Tom Sandoval? He's all bad. I did nothing in this situation, kind of a, I don't know. I feel like I'm already seeing fans like all out. But it seems like there's kind of more mixed that maybe this isn't the best way if her goal is to be likable and a stable force on the show, is this the way to go? I think that she's definitely making a misstep if her goal is to be to be likable. But I have not seen online as much blowback towards her as I would expect. Because this was not a good episode for her, in my opinion.

Like when we got that confessional where it's shortly after Sheena is having that conversation in the pool. And she's like, well, Lisa Vanderpom was saying that, you know, Tom Sandoval is, having these thoughts of like suicide. And then we get a confessional immediately followed where Ariana's like, yeah, I'm like, I'm not surprised. I don't doubt that he's had these, these thoughts. But, you know, it's his own fault. And it's annoying that he's talking about it.

I can understand that maybe he has had some thoughts and some feelings. But like those thoughts and those feeling are based on a situation that he created in which he didn't give a. about anybody else's mental health. I know I'm a bitch saying this, but like it just feels a little bit like annoying. It was so like callous and I was a little shocked that I didn't see anything online responding to that because like I get like Ariana gets a bit of a past because she's just

like angry and that's something that anger is something that I think that we need to see on this season. But for the edit to include that, I feel like they're not setting her up to have a very likable journey this season. So I'm curious as to what that's saying about the progression that we're going to see for her as a character.

Yeah. And I think even just putting aside questions of likability or strategy for the show, I question that it's the best thing for her to move forward with the next stage of her life when she keeps defining everything in terms of like the rules of like, you know, you're not allowed to talk to Sandoval. And at a certain point, she's keeping herself in the box of being like, you know,

Sandoval's ex who got cheated on. Like instead of, I feel like she could be doing more to, and I understand that's easier said than done, but she could be doing more to like, you know, move on to other things in her life. And I think being maybe a little bit more flexible. And, you know, if Schwartz wants to have a conversation, maybe that conversation could could be a nice one to have

with an old friend of many years even if he's apparently part of the poison that has to be cut in her life like just at a certain point if you if you never bend you're just going to keep raking like you have like I think she could show

some more flexibility and I and that might just help her you know figure out what's next for her and just move on from being always defined by what by this event

that happened because it's it's it's it's been months ago at this point it's you've got to start making proactive steps to uh to to move on with your life yeah something that i have to like remind myself while watching this is that it is filmed a lot closer to the actual events so that's true it is a bit fresher but um i agree i think that like ariana has been taught by this situation that her anger is keep like she's going to win like she's she keeps winning the angrier that she gets the more she keeps winning. And that is like being reinforced by all the opportunities that she's getting and just her like the raising of her profile and all the support. So it's not surprising

to see that she's embracing that anger and, you know, to see so close to the events and like the environment that she was in at that point that, you know, she would think, okay, anger is the way to go. That's what people are going to want to see when they turn this on. and not really consider, you know, what the temperature of the crowd might be, you know, eight months later or however long, however long it has been. Yeah. And the anger, and I would like to see more anger because like that's genuine. And we saw in the finale of last season, she was really like talking about her emotions.

It was very powerful and moving. I would like to see more of her like working through her emotions by talking about them instead of just, you know, kind of laying down rules for other people. if she could like, you know, if we got maybe, and maybe there's more of that coming, I hope so, for just discussing how she's feeling, how she's going through this, because that might be, uh, might be helpful for the audience to understand her better and maybe be,

you know, helpful for her too to help work through things. Yeah. What's interesting to me about this situation that we've got, uh, in terms of the people that are surrounding Tom Sandoval and the people that are surrounding Ariana is there's all this talk about like the people that are surrounding Tom Sandoval are people that are like enabling his approach and being like like being yes people and um but really Tom Sandoval is the only person where we have seen someone surrounding him

be like hey you need to like change your approach like we've seen Tom Schwartz be like oh that that's not really going to serve you well in this situation whereas everyone surrounding Ariana is you know on like team Ariana and just like really just pumping her tires so um I think there's a bit of a contrast there. I feel like as the season goes on, that might change a little bit. But I just thought it was an interesting contrast. But then we also have them doing a scene with Billy Lee, who's like, you've never done anything wrong. And you are so brave and important right now. Though, you know what? I do like, like I said this last. I'm like having Billy back. I'm glad she's back. We do need a cast member in Folley in Sandval's court.

So if that's the role she's going to fill, I, you know, it's good to have somebody in that role. I'm happy to have her back. I want more of her perspective, though. I want, why don't we have a confessional? Why don't we have a Billy Confessional? Maybe we'll get one later, but it's weird to me we didn't have that this episode. You know, we had a couple instances of a confessional from Allie.

Yeah. Who gives a fuck what Allie thinks? Sorry, Ali, but I mean, you know, you're 16. Like, I want to know, I want to hear Billy explaining that why. she's decided to be Sandoval's close friend right now. I want to hear her talk about that.

You know, I want to see her confessional. Yeah, totally. Shvonne, did you have any other highlights from Vanderpupup rules? Yeah, I feel like we're missing, hearing Tom talk about how much he loves Raquel

and still like how heartbroken he is that she's not calling him back or didn't call on his birthday. I feel like we never really got to see them together. I feel like we're missing some context of really the dynamic in the relationship. We only really got that one scene and, you know, the fantastic finale last season, but it was still awkward. It was there dealing with more like we've gotten caught kind of a thing.

Because, yeah, I just feel like we're missing some context of the love that he has for her. Yeah, because he even says this episode, you know, the hanging out was the best part. It wasn't just, you know, the physical relationship that we had. So yeah, you're right. I feel like it would have definitely added a lot more to this if we would have seen him and Raquel together. Dylan, what are your highlights here? Yeah, we've mostly covered the big ones.

Another funny episode from Schwartz for me, who's just the most awkward man right now. I love his awkwardness at the pool party while wearing like the stupidest fucking glasses in the world. It's rare to be sitting next to Lala and be like, oh, you're the one with the stupid glasses. Like, how do you have stupider glasses than Lala does right now? That shit came from like a Mr. Potato Head or something.

It was really, really cool, which is great, because it matches his, like, his, like, awkward energy. I like that we finally get joke, the rumored joke, how good as a character. And we get a little sense of their dynamic, like when she cuts his hair. And then we literally, like, pick him off the floor, like, he's her child. I love that they're bantered. It feels like people that just quote the office back and forth at each other or whatever. That sort of vibe. Yeah, it's such like stoner roommates vibes.

Yeah, exactly. And that's where Schwartz like thrives, right? So you can see why he's like, this is my comfort zone, you know? Whereas everywhere else is like stoner roommates. It's like Dylan and I have been stoner roommates. And look where we are now. Yeah, exactly. We have a podcast.

Exactly. kids never let go of your dreams um just um yeah that that was mostly it we've mostly mentioned like lala had a had a unexpectedly strong episode i thought um and just to circle back to that story about the lift driver did anybody else find it funny that katy was like like how did this guy never heard of like who you guys are like have you ever heard of reddit yeah Like, why does she immediately reach to, like, Reddit as like, is that, like, the main source of Mandirpum News? I don't know. I don't know.

Is Katie just, like, a big Redditor? That's, is you too sad? Yeah, I can see her being a big Rediter. Yeah, I can see that too, actually. Maybe that's, maybe that's right. I think Reddit has one of the, like, the better fan communities for Bravo, in my opinion. Like, I really enjoy the conversation. It's got a bit more nuanced the perspective there.

So I'm glad to see her reach out. And that might be like the fact that it's kind of got a more balanced perspective might be why she went to that. Because I feel like Katie has been like the punching bag of Vanderpump Rules when Vanderpump Rules was boring everyone. Like piles on Katie. Like what does she bring to the table? She's so boring or whatever. You hear a lot of that on like fan discourse where like I feel like Katie has been this like really consistent like numbing. you know, she's like the pee under all the mattresses in Vanderpump rules that really, like, agitates things and this constant, like, nuisance that's like ratcheting up the tension because she's just, like, she can be so unhappy and, like, turn on a dime.

And she adds a lot to the tension that I think she does get credit for on a lot of fan forums. So I'm not surprised to see her reach for a fan community that I feel is a bit more balanced than some of the other ones. I like that. I like seeing her and Ariana getting to really forge a friendship. I feel like they're incredibly compatible as friends. Oh, yeah. You know, or it will go into the negative and like, you know, or kind of complainer type people.

But I feel like so much throughout the, I've been rewatching. I'm on about like season four or five. And just seeing them like sometimes get close to being friends. And then Katie gets pulled back in with Kristen and Stossi. I just feel like Katie and Ariana have such compatible energy. I'm glad to see them. Forge are real friends. Yeah, I like it too.

I think that they are a force to be reckoned with together. Like, there's definitely a lot of chaos that they could cause. And Katie's good to be that, that strongest person for Ariana because she'll really give in to the like, yeah, fuck Tom. Like, he, you know, like, nobody can hang out with us if they hang out with him. She'll like really, really, you know, cheerily that type of ideology. She's been preparing her whole life for this moment. Yeah. Yeah, she is shining.

I think we covered most of the highlights that I had down, but I did want to talk a little bit about one thing that Tom Sandoval brought up. I was trying to figure out like, why is Tom Sandoval so angry at Sheena and Lala? Because anytime they came up, it was hard for me to figure out what was like driving his anger. And when he said like, Sheena and Lala taught the nation how to treat me.

I was like, oh, there it is. That makes complete sense. That brings everything together. And also it kind of colored my perspective on, you know, why Lisa Vanderpump chose Sheena and Lala as to be the people that are trying to like drive this change in the tide. Like it's Lisa Vanderpump playing 3D chess like she always does. she could identify who the real thought leaders of the team Ariana community are and heed in on them and is using them to initiate a shift in perspective. I thought that that was a really

compelling insight. Yeah, and I also can see from his perspective just how much they profited off of his pain. Like, I can see that being, I would feel some type of way if I was Tom and they're buying a new beach house or whatever it was that Lollapai based off of merch from the situation like I don't know I get it from their perspective if I could profit off of it I would have too but you know like I can see that being yeah a little I think like when he had that quote like oh sorry for giving you all the material for your podcast and the sweater line like that came from a true place in his heart like he he does resent him for that I loved on social media this week that we got, Rachel putting out a reel for her 10th episode of the podcast where she, like, has a

clip where Lala and Sheena are going back and forth on some podcasts, being like, oh, yeah, well, who's going to want to listen to her podcast after 10 episodes? People are going to get tired about hearing about Tom Sandoval. And then it's just this like fast forward reel of all these mentions that Sheena has done on her podcast of Tom Sandoval. I thought it was just like such a great way to shader. Well done, yeah. Let's go into our picks for this episode.

Shavon, who are your three stars? Okay, Lisa Vanderpump, really great operating, both for the positive and for the negative, but superstar performance. I'm going to say, Lala, of course, I thought that she, as we talked about, was just fantastic this episode. And then I'm going to say Tom Schwartz. I thought that he was a lot of fun this episode. I loved the bringing Allie the plant and she's like, oh my God, like enough of the plans. I thought that that was great and kind of working on, you know, organizing this trip for them and kind of working on integrating Sandoval back into the group. Yeah, totally. Dylan, how about you,

who are your picks? Yeah, it's going to be pretty similar. I agree with that. I've got to go number one, Elisa. She's making it happen. She's, and she's reconfiguring the group. Number two, let's go with Lala. She's been strong this season. It's been a good start for her. And number three, donut. Shout out the donut.

Okay, yeah. My number one pick is going to be Lisa Vanderbump as well. I love to see it. I think this is the first time we've ever had someone, like, be a pick on two episodes that we're covering. So love that for her. That's MVP. Yeah, exactly.

Wow. And I think next Lala is really, we got a lot of range out of her. I want to give my third pick to Tom Sandoval, but I might need to give it to Butter Bay, the Butter Bay baby James. No, no, I'll give it to Tom Sandoval. I think that, like, we're seeing a lot of his motivation. and it's still like what I want to see on the show. Like I'm waiting for another Tom scene to like get more of that. So I got to give them a star for that.

I think that about does it. Did you guys have anything else that you wanted to call out before we close up here? Just quickly, I was just curious if either of you guys read the New York Times Magazine profile on Tom Sandball that came out this week. Oh, no, I haven't yet. I saw, I mean, I saw the big quote of comparing it to like, OJ, but I got where he was coming from that this, the situation turned into something

like massive, but definitely maybe not, you know, the best comparison, but yeah, extraordinarily read it in full, though. I've been meaning to. Yeah. They're just like aside from, yeah, the bizarre tone death comparison to OJ and George Floyd, which he seemed to immediately realize that he said something really stupid, which is also very funny. The other thing that really stuck out for me, is that is like an interesting portrait of a guy who's like, he's been so consumed by the reality TV life that he like can't not live it. Like they say like how like he's always got the lights on his,

in his house, like the ceiling lights are always like taped over with paper, even when it's not in the shooting season, how like when he's talking in his everyday life, even if he's not being filmed, he will like instinctively stop and stare out onto space. if there's like a plane going overhead or a siren going by. Like it's just, for me, that's what's most interesting.

It's just this portrait of this guy who's just like, been in the game for so long that there's like no more, there's no more distinction between like reality and reality TV. It's just, he's just trapped in this box now. Oh, awesome. I'm going to have to check that out for sure. Yeah, same. That sounds super interesting.

Well, thank you so much for doing this, Chavon. Do you want to let everyone know where they can find you? Yeah, well, thanks again for having me. I had so much fun. So you can find me on, mainly on YouTube. It's deeply superficial. I also have Instagram, TikTok, and Twitter are deeply superfish, like the animal. Awesome.

Dylan, how about yourself? You can find me occasionally giving my thoughts on movies, on Substack at Dylan Ferguson. That's me. I just put out part one of my ranking of the 10 Academy Awards Best Picture nominees, which I love to do that shit. I know Craig likes that shit too. Maybe we'll talk about it on the podcast at some point. Let's see.

Let's stay tuned. But yeah, if you want to know what I think about the best picture nominees, part two will be up on Sunday. Awesome. Yeah, like Dylan T's, we're going to do a Oscar preview special. Won't be covering any Housewives,

on that, but just to talk about movies. You can find us on Instagram at Bravo Outsider. We're on YouTube at Bravo Outsider. TikTok, it's the same. Just search us. Like and subscribe wherever you're listening to the podcast or on YouTube. That helps us out a ton. If you're curious and have a VR headset,

we do have VR versions of our podcast on our website, Bravo Outsider.com. So you can check that out. Until next week, keep on wiping.