Oscars Outsider - RHOBH S14E16 & Southern S10 Charm Finale | Bravo Outsider Podcast

Episode Date: March 25, 2025

We want to hear your takes! Give our hotline a call and leave a message with your thoughts on what's going on in the Bravo universe at 1-833-927-0178.Join us on the Bravo Outsider Podcast as we embark on a thrilling exploration of the latest episode The Real Housewives of Beverley Hills and the Southern Charm Season Finale🥂 About Bravo OutsiderThe Bravo Outsider Podcast offers an outside perspective on Bravo shows like The Real Housewives, unlike any other Bravo podcast! We focus on the artistic value of these shows while providing strategic analysis of the social game at the core of the Bravo docu-soap. We love thick literary references and diving into themes before diving into the drama!🍸Featured Bravolebs:Southern Charm: Venita Aspen, Leva Bonaparte, Craig Conover, Taylor Ann Green, Austen Kroll, Madison LeCroy, Rodrigo Reyes, Shep Rose, Patricia Altschul, Whitney Sudler-Smith, Salley Carson, Molly O'Connell, and Ryan AlbertRHOBH: Kyle Richards, Erika Girardi, Dorit Kemsley, Garcelle Beauvais, Sutton Stracke, Bozoma Saint John, Jennifer Tilly📣 Stay Connected:Find Bravo Outsider:On your podcast platform of choice: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/bravo-outsider/Instagram: ⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/bravooutsiderTikTok: ⁠⁠https://www.tiktok.com/@bravooutsiderhttps://www.bravooutsider.comFind Craig Midwinter:chess.com: https://www.chess.com/member/craigjmidwinterFind Dylan Ferguson:Substack: https://dylanferguson.substack.com/📖 CreditsMusic by FASSounds from Pixabay#RHOSLC #bravotv #bravo #realitytv #RealHousewives.

Hello and welcome to the Bravo Outsider podcast. We are back. I'm your host Craig Midwinter and I'm joined by Dylan Ferguson. How's it going? Good, good. Glad to be back after a long hiatus. I know you've been waiting for ages here. I start talking about housewives again.

So I'm super stuck that we're back, ready to go. Going to do an Oscars recap. Going to talk about the Oscars some more. I'm just kidding. Well, let's dive right in. We're going to talk about Real Housewives of Beverly Hills and Southern Charm. Where do you want to start, Dylan? Why don't we talk Beverly Hills?

Why don't we do that? Yeah, let's do it. Hit a Berge. Do you want to give us just a recap of what happened this episode? Yeah. So still on vacation in St. Lucia, we kind of kick things off with a meal, the main confrontation at the meal. is between Sutton and Dorit over their mutual in politeness for each other.

And I guess some battle lines are drawn there that kind of carry over into conversations that happen afterwards, notably where Garcell feels upset that Sutton wasn't backing her up as Garcel tried to dig for information from Kyle. And then I guess the follow-through of all that carries over into another great boat scene. And we had a classic boat scene that is our climax here. Where Sutton gets pretty emotional, Erica starts sticking into her. And that's that's pretty much it. It's pretty classic stuff.

Yeah, it's it felt like a very replacement level vacation episode to me. Like when they go on these trips, sometimes they're explosive. Sometimes they're kind of middling and sometimes they're a snooze. And this was like straight down the middle. there was enough conflict to keep me interested, but it didn't necessarily blow me away. But I was like, I'm really into this trip because I've actually stayed at the resort

that they are staying at. When I went to St. Lucia last year, I stayed at the Windjammer. And so seeing all the sites has really made me more interested than I probably would be otherwise. But yeah, I know the lay of the land. I've got the geography down.

So ask me anything. But what were your questions that stood out to you at the end of this episode. The person that interested me most is Garcel here. I'm really interested in what she's doing. I think she gives the most interesting performance. I think we know that Garcel is a pretty strategy forward player. She really is thinking about how she's going to,

how things are going to play out over the next, over the coming days and over the season. And her big thing in this episode really seems to be trying to dig more information out of Kyle, specifically as regards for relationship with Morgan, which I want to know too. So I've said it before.

Kyle's kind of become frustrating to me because she's such a pro at this that she's very good at not giving out any information when she doesn't want to. And that after a certain point just gets kind of annoying as a viewer when that's not what we came here forward and he'd come here to see people keep their secrets.

So I guess the question for me is like where is Garcel heading with this? What does she want this information for? What's she hoping to get out of this heading into presumably some sort of showdown near the season finale? And why is she trying to use Sutton to her ends? Because I think the way that her need for information is being expressed in this episode is through her annoyance with Sutton, not being the tool that she wants to use.

to dig information out of Kyle. Yeah, I think that the way that Garcel is handling Sutton does not come from a strategic place. This is like purely emotional. I think that she is actually upset that Sutton does not have her back. When we see, we have seen that Garcel consistently typically has Sutton's back. So I think that that frustration is like a genuine emotional frustration. But I agree that it is really interesting to see how Garcell.

Garcel is playing this because I think that it's really smart for the sake of the show to be needling Kyle and trying to get this brought out. I think that Garcel rightfully believes that she has, you know, the infantry to make a play here because she should have Sutton on her back. Jennifer Tilley really shores up that side because she's got Sutton's back as well. She just wants the troops to like fall in line and, you know, serve her needs for a little bit. Yeah, I definitely saw it as more of a strategic thing, less emotional. But I think you might be on to something there.

I think it definitely feels emotional when we see Garsell's diagnosis of why Sutton is acting that way, where she says, you know, Sutton is blinded by Kyle's light, that basically that Sutton just wants to be Kyle's friend so badly that she ignores the fact that Kyle isn't a great. friend to her and and only pays attention to the instances where Kyle does support her. And that theory about Sutton seems really borne out by the confessional where we see Sutton saying of the one moment where Kyle kind of supports her. She says like, oh, Kyle's stepping up for me. See, I knew we were friends. You know, and now everybody sees it too.

Like that like so supports Garcel's thesis. And so I can understand that emotional angle where Garcel is coming from. Like, I actually have had you back and you're just. ignoring that, whereas Kyle hasn't had your back and you're just only paying attention to the tiny instances where Kyle does say something supportive. And you're right, it was kind of like a big moment for me when Kyle contradicts Sutton on the boat near the end because then I was right away like, like, yeah, you see Sutton, she doesn't have your back all the time. And of course, Garcel picks up that right away. Like Garcel sees that right away and takes that as a certain

cue to not support Sutton and kind of leave her out, hang her out to dry because she's just not getting what she wants from her or is exasperated by her. And that's really interesting to me. Like this is some pretty good stuff. I'm excited to see how that plays out. Yeah. Since we're diving into this strategy, I think let's just continue with it here a little bit. I do think that this choice from Garcel to let Sutton dangle in this conversation in the boat at the end. I think that that is a smart, a smart strategic decision just because, I mean, it's a, it's a, there's a lot of risk associated with it, but I think it is going to pay off because, um, you know, Sutton is taking Garcell's support for granted here for sure. Like 100% where we

saw that. That's basically the story of this episode is Sutton taking. Garcel's support for granted. And we see at the end that Garcel just lets her just dangle there. Sutton could be upset about Garcel not having her back in that moment. But I think that Garcel has way more leverage here in that argument. Like she, Sutton has not had Garcel's back. So I think that, you know, I think that this is an easy way for Garcel to illustrate that. And also Sutton doesn't really have a lot of places to turn to.

She can't just completely go up against Garcel now because who has her back right now. Like there's blood in the water. Erica Jane is like swimming circles around her right now. And Dorit is just like so hungry as well. So I don't think that there's a lot of places for Sutton to turn unless she really thinks that she can lean on Kyle. But we see in that that fight that that's not the case. So I mean, I think this is a pretty smart decision from Garcel. Yeah, I think you're right.

And it's really funny to me, he just said that Erica was like circling the waters with Sutton. Because I literally wrote Erica is circling Sutton. Like I use the same phrase as you did in your notes. It's funny how we both picked up on Erica's shark-like behavior. And the way that you could tell her sniffing around there. And just not totally by Sutton's perspective where at least in the earlier dinner, everybody else kind of seemed to be. Like, people were mostly,

mostly had sons back in the initial confrontation with Dorrit, because Dorrit was just being like too stubborn and refusing to apologize. But you could tell even then Erica was like looking for an opening, like just not trusting Sutton's honesty, I guess. And it's funny that we both picked up on that. I do, that's one thing that I like about. Erica too is that she often seems to want to go against the grain more than to go with it. And like if everybody is leaning one way, she seems more inclined to lean the other way. So she was she was been waiting from the start to like find a moment to attack and finds it at the boat. Yeah, totally. Was there anything in terms of how this was presented presented that stood out to you? Um, the boat scene's always great for me.

Just love that they're, as always, you know, it just trapped in a space that's being tossed about and, and, uh, just the fact that they're, uh, discombobulated and, and pent up together like sardines, all trapped in turbulent is always fun. I, I did also really like, um, the bit where we had, you know, pieces of hair were being taken out, you know,

the extensions were being moved, especially Eric. You picked up on that too. What? Well, that might be going a little far, but yeah. No, maybe, you know, from from Buzz's perspective, that's you're probably right, because she seemed to find it disgusting that these white women are leaving their hair extensions on the furniture. But I do like that visual.

We get kind of a montage of them like doing their makeup routines, undoing their hair. We get to see that process of, being presentable that they that they all subject themselves to. And all this talk of the hair, you know,

Boz like Kent, take your hair out because it's like too complicated and she's going to leave it for the morning. And then that when she's having a conversation, Erica's just sitting on the couch and her blue pajamas with her usual kind of blazee ostrichristian.

face, just pulling chunks of hair off her head, leaving, you know, blonde hunks on the, on the couch. It did make like a good visual accompaniment. Yeah, a good visual accompaniment to like the whole like the themes of presentation and like what's, what's real and what is it, like, and what's the kind of presentation that they expect from each other in terms of like keeping of appearances and what's phony and what's actual. sisterhood to use a buzzword they use a lot. Just that conversation of like at what point is being friends, like respecting each other's appearances and turning a blind eye to anything that

might not support those appearances and what is being a friend like Garcel thinks of Kyle being having to reveal stuff. And just having that accompanied by like this, you know, pulling out pieces of your fake presentation is kind of an interesting like just visual aid to that. Yeah, I like that. As you were talking,

I really connected that with a sub-theme that I think we saw during this. There was a moment where Garcel is talking about how in private conversations that she has with Sutton, they have both talked about Morgan. And we got a replay of, you know, Sutton talking about Morgan with Garcela. I think that this, like, this theme of, you know, presentation or, you know, the constructed, like, image that you kind of put out there is a really interesting tie in there. Was there a quote that's set out to you from this episode?

Tying into that. Garcell says of Kyle, how do you have that friendship if there's a part of your life that you don't want to talk about? And I, that, I just, I just highlighted that because that helped me understand

where she was coming from more. Whereas up until that moment, I was kind of just seeing it from the perspective of pure strategy, kind of like I outlined earlier and using Sutton as a spade to dig information out of her, which I'm sure it partly is too.

But, yeah, It's just an interesting contrast between the ideas of like, like I said, is being a good friend, being the person who doesn't probe for information, who doesn't ask questions, or is it the person who insists that you, that you tell them,

you know, your secrets? And I thought that was a kind of a contrasting idea of what sisterhood is to what, to what some of the other people are expressing. So that's kind of why that that stood. out for me. That was an interesting window into how Garcel is interpreting the situation. Yeah, maybe this episode is a bit more thematically stronger than I had initially thought, because as you were talking, I was recalling the story that Jennifer Tilly has about being on

stage on Broadway and, you know, being naked on stage and comparing being naked on stage to being naked and intimate setting in front of her boyfriend. These two ideas of vulnerability and vulnerability, you know, in terms of a more public vulnerability versus a more intimate vulnerability. I think that that is a really interesting little nugget to keep in there. So I like that a lot. Yeah. And also how like sad is it that Jennifer Tilly was dating somebody and she felt like she had to

get up in the middle of the night and do her makeup and the night. and then go back to bed so that he thought she looked like, you know, totally presentable and beautiful when they woke up in the morning. Like, I don't know if that was, if that's just her being paranoid or if like something about this guy made her feel like she had to, to keep up that pretense too much. But, man, what a, that just made me sad to think of it. Yeah, totally. I really love Jennifer Tilly as an addition to this, this group. Oh, me too. I think that she has been bringing a lot to the to this season.

So really hoping that we get her back next season. Yeah. I'll just throw a couple, a couple more Sutton lines that I did like while we're on quotes. I do like how we kind of glaze over at the start when people are talking about how there's like good vibes and everything when she says, it's the negative ions. I've been trying to teach y'all.

Yeah. And I just like the addition. I've been trying to teach y'all like somewhere off camera. She's just been ranting about negative ions. and positive ions. She's got a PowerPoint. Yeah, yeah. Which shows that she's well integrated into like Southern California culture too

because they love that shit over there. Love talking about how the positive ions and the Santa Ana wins are bad for your mental health and other bullshit like that. And also I like when she is doing the confessional about about why about why DeRich was it wasn't accepting her apology and stuff. And she says, hello, if you just shut up,

you'd hear me apologize for calling you Brokey. And that was good. And that's also much funnier than the original line she was apologizing for, which wasn't very good, right? Richie was like, oh,

you should pick on somebody whose wallet fits. Like, yeah, I feel like you kind of bucked that one. And she should have just said like Brokey, which is just, it's just funnier. It just sounds more off the cuff. It reminds me of Jack's calling Sheena Divorso. Brokey.

That's so funny. Sutton also had another line that I really liked about the, about Erica. I was like, I thought we were good. I threw you a pizza party at Chuckie cheese or whatever. I really like that because she's actually referring to an actual pizza party that she threw at Chuckie cheese as opposed to it just being a phrase. I really like that. We have that because like in isolation it seems like a metaphor, but it's really funny. That's an actual thing.

Also, one more little quote that I'll throw out. I also appreciated the way that we see Bose's diplomacy when Kathy Hilton says, Rome wasn't conquered in a day and Boz says like yeah like Kathy says Rome wasn't built in a day like a very diplomatic way to correct the misuse of the expression you know she fucked up the expression and then she

corrects her without like by making it look like she's backing her up rather than actually correcting her that's that that's that's some skillful political speech there yeah I've been really

impressed with how Boe's plays the game. I really enjoyed at the opening dinner when we got to see her, like, she, she took Sutton's side a little bit, even though she has not really had that strong of a bond. And she went, you know, she put Dorit on the spot a little bit in order to try to get her to accept the apology. And she was also the driver of trying to get Dorit to apologize back about the drinking comments. Yeah. I, I think it's. Like it's very, it's very difficult to play the middle on these shows, especially if it is your first year. Because otherwise, you're really at risk of like falling into the background and losing your diamond or whatever it is that you hold on your, your show of choice.

But I think that she has done a really good job of playing, playing the middle and, you know, looking at each situation from a nuanced, perspective and like in isolation with like just the context she needs as opposed to you know just blindly siding on one side of of an argument or another and just falling into into an allegiance yeah she's she's very she's very tactful like that that's i think what i was trying to get at is just that you you see these little instances that show that she has like a lot of uh kind of careful tactful um approaches to it to everything that is that is pretty important impressive. Let's get into any other highlights that we've got.

Have you got anything that we haven't talked about yet? Yeah. It's a little thing, but it is funny that Sutton is so bad at doing thirst traps. In that little moment where she's trying to get her to do a thirst trap and they're like, open your mouth a little bit. It's just, she's just so bad at it. I thought it was kind of. Yeah, it's a very ventriloquist dummy, like just the jaw dropping. Yeah.

Yeah. Oh, a little tiny Erica moment I love is that when when Derritte says, not without reason, you need to actually speak English so I understand because Sutton's phrase was kind of kind of bungled and unclear. And then Sutton bust some English accent. You get a great little shot of Erica kind of appraising Sutton's English accent being like, yeah, you know what? Not bad.

Pretty good. She just makes a great face of like, yeah, okay. Yeah, that's pretty three to three, three to five. Not bad. That was a great bit for me. I think we covered most of the highlights that I've got. Do you want to give us your stars here, your stars here? Got to give Garsel number one.

She's the one who is most interesting to me, you know, whether she's being primarily motivated by strategy or emotion or as is usually the case, some combination of both. she's she's doing a lot of interesting stuff and I think wherever she's going with this is probably going to play a big part in the finale so yeah Garcell number one I think I'll yeah I think Sutton is obviously very implicated but I think I'm going to leave her off because I wasn't exactly impressed by her by her showing interesting yeah yeah I'll give Bose number two, because even though she wasn't like really getting your hand sturdy, it was another showcase of kind of her skills. And she didn't make some stuff happen. Like you mentioned,

after Doreet was kind of sort of accepting Sond's apology, she was smart enough to be kind of like, yeah. And now Doreen, is there something else you want to bring up that you did that you would apologize for, but did it in a way that it didn't sound like she was just try to, to restart an old argument. So that was good showing by her. And I'll give Erica by third because I do like Erica kind of going against the grain, looking for her opportunities. She just feels like such a free agent at this point in the show I feel like. And I like that about her. It just feels like she's just really doing her own thing.

And Ed just always, always like everything she does, just really a really funny person. Yeah. I want to put Erica on my top three, but I'm going to actually have to leave her off because I think my third slot is going to go to Jennifer Tilly. I just have really enjoyed what she's been brigging. I think we're getting a lot of nuance. Like we're getting hint at her like emotional side. She also elevates the cast quite a bit in terms of anytime she talks about an accessory or anything that she's wearing, it is like very clearly. real money, not just like real housewives, I got to show off money. It's like coming from a real

money place. Yeah, she's got that Simpson's money. So, um, and she's really funny. Like her confessions are good. The little, uh, aside clips that we get from her are, are really good. Um, so yeah, she gets my number three slot. Um, number two, I would give to Garcel. I think for all the reasons you mentioned, she's just been really interesting. Number one, I've got to give, give to Sutton. Um, this was, this was, she was the fulcrum for this episode. And I want to give sudden credits. Sutton is one of my favorite housewives like going into this season and seeing how the edit has kind of turned on her and, you know, she is not getting a, um, you know, a hero edit.

She is getting more of a villain edit. I think that she's a compelling heel. I think that she is reminding me a little bit of Meredith Marks in terms of how, reactive she is to things and she's she's got shades of Shannon Bidore just being like unintentionally funny and a little bit messy just creating creating chaos and so I'm really enjoying what Sutton's Sutton brings here so the fact that this was really a Sutton episode Sutton Forward episode I think she has to get star honorable mention to Erica who is you know really doing great things she's

Um, you know, she's got the, the strategy. She's not afraid to go against the grain. Uh, and yeah, she's, she's also, she's very funny and unintentionally or not. Um, I love how she is able to make everything about her, which I think is a great draught and I was wife. Absolutely. All right. Well, let's, uh, let's dive into, you know what?

I think we have not done taglines for Beverly Hills. I think when we last talked about Beverly Hills, there was no taglines and we've been on a break for so long. Do you want to rate the taglines? Yeah, I mean, better late than never, right? I mean, obviously, they've come out a long time ago, but I would love to. Let's do it. All right. Okay, so the hills have eyes and they're all staring at me.

What do you think? All right. So that's Kyle, as I recall. Yeah. Right. And you know what? I dig this. I dig this a lot.

So Hills, obviously, were referencing Beverly Hills. I can't help but feel like maybe I'm reading too much into this, that this is kind of a reference to Kyle Richards' past and classic horror movies. Because the Hills have eyes, classic West Craven horror movie. And, you know, Kyle was active in the 1970s horror scene even as a child actor and movies like Halloween and the car and eaten alive. and so maybe she's winking at another like 70s horror classic with by referencing a West Craven classic title there. Maybe not. And the paparazzi is a strong like story for her.

Yeah. You know, there's speculation as to whether or not she wants to be seen by the paparazzi or whether Mo wants to be seen by the paparazzi. Yeah, so I like that pivot there. Like the hills have eyes is usually invoked as like a negative thing. Like oh, there's a bunch of crazy hillbillies. are watching at you and you don't know, at least in the Craven movie.

But then in the second clause, she just pivots it to like a positive thing. Like, Ed, I'll look it up because I want them to. So I like that kind of, that twist. I think it's a good one. I think this is a, I'll say a minus. I won't get two carried away, but I do like it. All right. I like a minus.

I think that's a good rating. I honor my fine Southern manners by putting you in your place. So that's Sutton. I'm sure. Yeah, I don't know. It's, it's pretty mediocre. It's definitely her. You know, it's very personalized.

There's not a pun that I can detect, right? It's, there's no play on words. It's, it's, it's, it's okayish. I'll say like, let's go C plus, actually. I'm not very enthusiastic about that. Okay, that was generous. I think this is a C. This is not great work.

Yeah. There's nothing here that really grabs me. Yeah, the idea is good, but there's no wordplay or even a joke, really. Yeah, I don't know that the idea is even that good. Like, I just don't get what she's thrown down here. I have been in the game too long to play by someone else's rules. That's Garcell, I think, right? Yeah.

Yeah, okay. Um, yeah, I don't know, man. That's not great. It does have, it does have a bit of wordplay game playing by rules, but it's, it's pretty vague. I guess it's referencing that she's kind of a, uh, a veteran player at this point. She's been around long enough. And that's true. Like, like Garcel does come off that way. Like we've been discussing. Like she does come off with as somebody who really knows how to how to play it, knows the ropes, um, has snogged every leading man from the 90s, apparently. which just since we forgot to mention that that's an insane roster that uh that they throw in there in the montage being like that she's either dated or at least made out with what like any murphy Sean Penn will Smith uh they throw Johnny Deppin at the end there there's a notable omission though James Gandalfini yeah yeah uh which I which which is a huge credit to her, but also shows that she hasn't been

that much of a star since in the past like 30 years. You also see how she's still kind of rooted in 90s Hollywood when she's like, you know, goes for an example of like a celebrity who to compare Kyle Richards to. And she's like, if Julia Roberts cannot be photographed by this paparazzi,

then I think Kyle Richards can. I'm like, yeah, Julia Roberts probably can't be photographed by the paparazzi because nobody really cares in 2025 what Julia Roberts is doing when was she even the movie last like it feels like an outdated reference anyways neither here nor there

yeah this is another one which is just okay I'll give it like I mean it does match your personality so that's a plus let's say B minus just a notch above above Sons because it does have a hint of wordplay and it is personalized but it's not very

good okay let's go with in Beverly oh yeah I don't know I think this is a a B maybe B minus nothing special here it's not as bad as Sutton's

but not outstanding in Beverly Hills money buys a lot but my independence priceless all right so that's Erica yeah another one which is like sure okay it's like it's

decent, but, but nothing special. Yeah. Finishing with like the single word, priceless also feels like kind of 1990s, because it feels like a reference to those MasterCard ads that are like also very out of date now. Yeah, you know, it's personalized. It does sort of fit her personality and that she's like kind of all

about herself. And that's her arc is right now is just about all being somebody who lives for herself, who is just doing everything for her own person and not for anybody else. So it fits that way. It's not especially funny. Let's say C plus again. Yeah, I think that this, you know what?

I think that this is B minus as well. This is, yeah, it's all right. Now we've got introducing the greatest product I've ever marketed myself. Okay. So this works, it does work in a couple ways because we're introducing a new So it does two things and that it tells us right away something about her background that she comes from marketing and then tells us that you're going to be introduced to me. So it's very efficient that way. You know,

it efficiently gives us a bit of biographical information. She does have a really, like, impressive marketing resume. She's worked for like Netflix and Pepsi and stuff. Like it has a portfolio of like huge, huge brands that she's been a chief marketing officer for. So as like a here I am, and here's a biographical nugget about me that like works together as one phrase. It does the trick.

It's like a very serviceable one. It's not funny. But, but it's efficient. Let's give it another B minus. They're all kind of clustering together my grades there. But let's do a B minus for this one. I like this one.

I think it's an A. It is a step up from a lot of, you know, I think it's a step up from. a lot of middling tags that we have seen, especially in this year's set of taglines. I like it. I think it's doing something just a little bit,

a little bit more than any of the other ones are. I might look like a doll, but don't wind me up. So, Dorit. And I like this one. I find it funny. It's short, it's sweet. It's kind of a pun. obviously not every doll that has a wind up,

but some do, so sure, it works. Like the pun more or less works. And I guess just don't wind me up. Just isn't where I expect it to be going when it starts off with. I might be a doll. It just feels like a twist. So this one actually makes me laugh. I'll give it an A minus.

All right. Yeah, I think that's everyone. Yeah. I think that A minus is a good rating for this. I like it as well. think it's not like an all-timer but it's it's really good yeah her delivery is good on it too you know like der reet saying don't wind me up is like uh something that really puts it over the top so before we move on to covering the southern charm finale just want to take a moment to let everyone know that

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That's 1833-927-017. eight. Dylan, let's dive into Southern Charm. Let's get a recap of the finale. What happened here? Yeah. So we start off with wrapping up the mini bombshell,

I'll say, that we ended the previous episode on the story that comes from JT's, that comes through Ryan from JT's barber, that JT apparently referred. to Vanita as some black girl who was crawling all over him, or words to that effect. So we start off with him consulting with Vinita about this to calm the situation and also to like prod her to bring it up in the event that she's going to,

which he isn't. And then, you know, transitioning from there into preparation for and then going to the sware with everybody else present other than. other than JT. Where the highlight, I guess, of the showre is Vanita sitting down with Ryan and various hangers on to, notably Leva, who goes into the room with her,

and Madison and Rodrigo, who just kind of drift in without explanation. And, yeah, to kind of try to smooth over any ruffled feathers, I guess. And if there is a twist at the end, I suppose it would be Shep and Molly hooking up at the end. And that's pretty much the final thing that we get before it wraps up. Not exactly in terms of finale is an explosive one, I would say. No, this just kind of petered out.

Yeah, I agree. Even the coda that we get at the end of this where we have. have Craig talking with Shep and Austin about the breakup with Paige is like really nothing. There's nothing really going on there. So I also found that this was a little bit dry and, you know, left me wanting a bit, a bit more. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, that's how I feel too. I haven't been following Southern Charm closely. But, yeah, it did feel a little dry. on drama for a couple of reasons. For one thing, the, I guess the mini uproar over the things that JT.

was alleged to have said is not that dramatic. Like, it's, they seem to have a hard time even pinning down what was the actual bad part about what he said. Like at first, his reaction seemed to be like, oh, no, because I was, I apparently said some black girl,

people are going to call me a racist for saying, for using the word black. but in that way, I guess, dismissively or whatever. Whereas Vanita seems to actually focus on the word sum, not the word black, right? That's the word that she picks up on as being like, that's what's, you know, dismissive, potentially dismissive and insulting if you had said so is that you refer to me as some person rather than, you know, using my name or, you know, talking about me directly. But it's just not like, first of all, it's coming through two different people.

So it's like we don't have a direct quote. We don't have anything on camera. And it's also not the most damning thing to have allegedly, potentially been said in some form or another. So that being like the big conflict kind of isn't super satisfying. The fact that Craig and Austin like already reconciled kind of means that we don't get that as a finale moment, which I think might have been a good choice if the editor. could have made it so that they had reconciled at the end, right?

Or at least if they had highlighted the reconciliation at the end, like there's a moment where I'm going to quibble a little bit with the way they edited this too, because I think that's like maybe part of the reason why it didn't like really sing for me as a finale. Like we do see Austin showing Craig like, oh, I've got some I got some hazies in the fridge or something like that. Presumably he's referring to some non-alcoholic beer he got there. they should have highlighted that moment at least to be like oh here is the like final moment of this journey they've taken together where where Austin has learned to to really pay attention to Craig's needs and take his his recovery journey seriously and Craig has learned to appreciate these gestures from Austin and you know you could have highlighted that to like kind of close off their storyline Right, because it's a fantastic token, too, when so much of what they are fighting about is Craig being like, oh, I don't want to have to like be going out to the bar with you and like getting blackout drunk every night.

That's not who I am. And Austin, like taking this and finding like using a non-alcoholic beer as a token is really good. But like you said, yeah, it was just like, whatever. This is this, they're, they've made up. Yeah. I would have appreciated like a goading Shep in a confessional into getting a moment where he references hooking up with Molly as like the conclusion of his journey of like realiting his needs or whatever, whatever hell spiritual journey he's on. Just give us something there which lets us at least feel like this is something that comes from a certain capstone in his journey rather than just being like a thing that happened where it just feels like, oh, it happened, like whatever like Shep and Molly make out. that's just a thing that doesn't really seem to affect anything.

Like, you could at least try to make that seem like it's like a conclusion to, to Shep's personal journey. And Maldives, too, I guess. But, you know, Shep's the more central character. Yeah, I know you haven't been watching this season, but there was a strong narrative of or of Shep, like, chasing after Sienna all season. And going to. Okay, right.

going on on this trip and we have some beautiful like cringe worthy moments from Shep like really wanting this to work and being very optimistic and sending the neediest messages out into the universe and into the phones so the fact that I thought that that this was one of the more compelling parts of the season was you know how there's this underlying desire that mollie has for shep and he is chasing he's chasing someone that does not desire him i thought that this this was the piece that was actually kind of satisfying for me i wish that we got it played out a little bit more than just like you know two seconds at the end of this finale and then a couple title cards uh it would have there

There's a lot more like juice there to squeeze, I feel. So I was a little let down by that. You could have asked them each about it and a confessional included a little quotes about it because they don't even do that. Right. Like you say, it happens. And then we get the title card saying, oh, by the way, they fucked. And then that's the last we get a bit. But you're right, from that perspective, yeah, it does make a great story element.

So that's great. And again, there are some things that I'm going to appreciate it less because I clocked out for most of the season. I've seen the handful of the episodes, but not the majority. But yeah, I do still think that the editors could have done a better job of, and the production team of just like reinforcing the way that some of these storylines have been concluded, because it does feel like a cold ending to me. Yeah. And I, so I watched almost all of this, this season.

I didn't watch the episode prior to the premiere. I just didn't get a chance to. And then going into the pre, I didn't watch the episode prior to the finale. And then going into the finale, I was like, what the hell is going on? Why are we so focused on a story that was not present in like almost the entirety of the season? I was so out to lodge. It seems like everything that had led up to that point was thrown out and dismissed. It was, I had whiplash from watching this.

And I was, yeah, I did not like know where I was. I felt like I had missed half of the season based on the focus of this, this finale. Yeah, I hear you. I did watch the previous episode to this one. So I got the thing about, you know, JT's alleged quote about some black girl. But yeah, that was just dropped in at last like a stinger at the end of the previous episode. And that was the. of the dialogue at the final party,

which like you say, it's kind of weird that that would be the focus when it's just something that just got dropped in at the end of the previous episode. And wasn't that juicy to begin with. Yeah, totally. Do you have any questions that you want answered in the reunion?

I mean, I'm sure the reunion is going to be heavily focused on Craig and Page, of course, since that obviously happened after they finished filming. and we do get a little bit of that in that little, you know, epilogue that they tack on to the end to just to address it. So I feel like that's going to be the biggest focus. You know, I got a question for you actually, Craig, because you have, like you mentioned,

you've seen more of the season than I have. What did JT actually do? Like, I get that he's weird. He's kind of off-putting. He has bad energy. But, like, the fact that he's, he seems at this point frozen out of the group.

I feel like what I've seen and even the like previously on this season recap hasn't actually highlighted a single specific thing he did to get frozen out. Is there something he did? So there's a couple of things that are just compounded by the fact

that he's just a weird guy. Like one of them was like right out of the gate with Patricia where he gives her a cane. The cane, right? I remember that. Yeah. Yeah, and the power that Patricia has over this social dynamic needs to be like, it's something that you can't really ignore because she does like hold a lot of power in this group. So that that is a big thing. And she is very, very close.

Well, Whitney is her son, but she's very close with Madison. So that is going to turn Madison, who also has a lot of a lot of. power within this group. And that, then later in the season, we see J.T. It's interpreted by Craig that J.T. is implying that Madison and her husband, whose name I can't remember, were, her husband was worried that like Madison was sleeping with J.T. Or something to that effect. Yeah.

And so that has kind of entrenched Patricia, Craig, and Madison against J.T. And that is definitely enough to turn basically the entire group on JT because, you know, he's, he's J.T. He's a weird, weird little guy and no one wants to, like, stand up for him. So. Yeah, the vibes aren't good. Yeah. And then there's just kind of shady behavior in terms of how he has navigated things with Vanita, I think. For sure. That also turns, you know, us as an audience off on him.

And yeah, that's kind of the core of it. Yeah, definitely has handled Fineda very poorly. And because he does have that kind of like bad energy, it's kind of baffling to me how Vidita really is sort of crawling all over him. Like that's like she is like really wants to make this work. And it's kind of confusing why why she's so into it. You know, like she she seems like very charming. She's gorgeous. It just it seems like a little head scratching why she wants us.

She seems to want this to work with JT so badly when it seems pretty obvious from an outside perspective anyways that JT has just kind of stringing her along and doesn't really show any interest in taking her more seriously. And that also is included in a little little, little epilogue at the end too. We got a little bit more references to that, which might be fleshed out in the reunion. And I guess if I do watch the reunion,

which I'm sure I will now, that will be something I'm looking for, is to have Vinita just tear into JT. I would like to see that happen. Yeah. I think like one of the things that I love about JT is that he

wears a ton of masks. Like he's always putting a mask on to whatever situation he is in and trying to be the person that he thinks is going to play best in that situation on camera. Like he really, last season, his first season, he really wanted to come across as like this white night, the, you know, the best guy in the group. And it was so like transparently phony that he was like putting this on. And I think that we see him do.

a variation on this except every situation he's like kind of playing separately like he's he's got the j t that venita sees he's got the jt with the boys he's got the jt with the barber and like really trying to be the person that whoever he's with is going to want him to be um i think that that makes him an incredibly compelling heel like i i just like i think that he is is a fantastic bad guy. And I really hope that we get him back next season because he is so like, he's got just really bad vibes and is really just like crazy. We talked about him being like a Patrick Bateman type presence where he is just a complete psycho.

And I love it. I want him back. Give me more JT. I agree completely. He's fascinating for that reason. And it's disappointing to have him not be in social settings like that. Because like you say, when he puts on different masks for different people, that's why you want him to be surrounded by everybody at the same time and see how he deals with it.

And we had that in the season opener, right, where he does the weird cane thing. Yeah. So it's disappointing that he wasn't there in the finale. that could have given it a lot more energy to have his presence in there. But unfortunately, we don't. To be clear, I've been pretty negative about this. I did think the final sware was not too bad, mostly because I like Venita and Leva just sitting down with Ryan and confronting him.

I thought that actually played out with some good drama, mostly because, like I said, I like I said, I like Vanita, and I find it very easy to like empathize with her. and like aligned with her perspective. So having her and that scene kind of have to overcome her, her fear of confrontation, I think is fair to say. I don't think she wants to do this, which is kind of why Leva kind of takes her by the scruff of the neck and brings her out.

And it's like, yeah, you're doing it now. To have her kind of overcome that and try to navigate the emotions in that scene still made for like a pretty good moment. Yeah, totally. Was there anything that you picked up in terms of how this was presented that stood out to you? I don't, I'm not crazy for like the aesthetics of this show. So nothing much really in terms of the way it's filmed the ready thing.

I will just shoehorn in the fact that I appreciate the like crushed blue velvet Neru jacket that Shep is wearing in the Suarez. I think that does kind of work as a thing that. that becomes a bit of a synicticky or like a short head for his character. And I like that choice, that he chose to wear that strange article of clothing because that does kind of feel like what I appreciate about Chef as a personality. I find him like a really interesting personality. And I do like the way that he chooses to wear this thing,

which is kind of like gesturing towards like luxury old money with like, you know, the navy blue, the crushed velvet. These are like old school, like luxury signifiers, which he always sense with Shep, that's the fact that he has that kind of background is part of his personality. But it's also got that slightly disheveled, rumpled, um, kind of debauched carelessness. It looks like it was pulled out of a costume box. It does.

It does. And it doesn't sit well on him. And it also, the other association with that kind of Neri jacket is, uh, is kind of like, somebody says like, oh, Sergeant Pepper, you know,

and that's obviously the Sergeant Pepper jackets were red, but they got the right idea. I think it does feel like, uh, 60s British invasion. Like, that's something that,

yeah, I feel like you can easily find a photo like Mick Jagger or like Donovan wearing a jacket that looks like that. Like, uh, like, that's the kind of, um,

uh, uh, slightly, um, like gesturing towards luxury, but sort of debauched, the disheveled thing that they, that they,

that they, that they, that they, and that and the fact that just doesn't fit him that well. Like it rises up around the shoulders. It's just there's a little bit of like discomfort and awkwardness and the fit on him, which also something is something that I enjoy about him. There's always sort of an undercurrent of like not quite fitting right.

He's got this big frame, but he always seems a little awkward. And he has a kind of built in confidence that I think comes from just his background and everything. But there's also like a certain mismatch between him and his surroundings. that always comes through. So it feels like an appropriate piece of clothing for Shep to show up. And I like that. Yeah, totally.

I think that in terms of the presentation here, I thought that the most compelling part of what we got about Paige and Craig's relationship comes from this conversation that we get in the car where, you know, Craig is counting the days. between when he is going to be able to see page next. And she is like also counting the days that she has of freedom here. There's a little bit of we can see the schism here really like starting to show. And the way that Craig is handling it is like he's drowning. He's like trying to like pull her back in and it's just pushing her away more. I thought that was the most compelling scene that we got there. I'm glad we got a little bit that kind of foreshadowed this breakup because I think that that's what a lot of people were tuning into this season for was to see what happened between Paige and Craig.

Like what led up to this breakup that got announced. Yeah. Another thing I appreciate from that scene is when Paige is going on about like, oh, I hate taking the flight from Charleston to New York. There's all the riff-ref. She uses the word riff-raff. And she's like, ah, and all these southerners, he just want to talk to you. And at one point, Craig says, it's called humanity. Yeah.

Just like, you visibly getting annoyed with the way that she's being like sort of misanthropic in the way she's talking. But like not, not wanting to say anything too contradictory, but obviously, like, it just kind of just getting annoyed with this perspective that she's, that she's voicing of being kind of like kind of just a selfish borderline misanthropic perspective. Yeah, totally. I like how he initially interprets it as like, oh, she hates going on this flight because she's going away from me.

But it's like, no, she hates it because of the people that are like him that are there. Yeah, because Saldon knows will try to talk to her. Yeah. Yeah, it is good like subtle foreshadowing. That is that is something I appreciate it. Yeah. I thought that this was like, I've been in some of my, previously I have been like on the side of, I think that Paige and Craig are a fake relationship, but this felt kind of real to me.

The fact that Craig was like, he was driving and then he's like pulling out his phone, trying to get a calendar up so that he can like count the days until he can see her again. It felt very real from his side at least. Yeah, I think that I don't necessarily love Craig, but I think he comes off pretty well in this episode, like what we see of him. And even in the little epilogue at the end where he's discussing like his feelings and how he feels like he's in mourning for somebody who's still alive, it felt it did come off as somebody genuinely trying to grapple with their emotions without lashing out at the partner who left them. and I think he does come off as somebody who did genuinely love his partner and is kind of shocked at the turn that things took. And like I said, in that conversation in the car, he does come off as the more like humane, agreeable person. And like, Paige is good TV, but sometimes when I see them together, I feel like dating Paige must just feel like dating a child.

Like she is just like she's often very funny, which is like, you know, she keeps the mood light and funny. But it's like every time he tries to ask a question, she just like immediately tries to think up of something stupid and ridiculous to say rather than answering the question. Like it's just, I don't think I noted that any specific examples, but it's like, yeah, it just feels like like every every response he gives is never an attempt to like access her actual emotions and find something true to say and always just an attempt to go to say. something goofy. And that must get exhausting sometimes. You know, I think that

I can definitely see where you're coming from having watched Southern Charm. I think she's actually a lot better on Summerhouse because I think she has like more formidable opponents on Summerhouse. I think, I don't think that the cast on Southern Charm is that

great to be honest. And I don't think that, she like i think she's just there playing craig sidekick and i think it's like she acts like that is below her because it probably is below her i think that like she's a way better reality uh personality when she is able to have like formidable matchups and so this season on summerhouse that is erring right now like page versus kyle is is really great because they are both like great reality tv personality so i i think that just watching her play sidekick to Craig is really the most boring form of page that we can get.

Yeah, no, I totally agree. And I'm specifically kind of criticizing the way that we see her when she's just, just her and Craig in their relationship bubble. And that's kind of not fair because everybody, I think when they're in their relationship bubble is like a little, it becomes a little bit devolved because you're in just such like a comfortable situation where you have like your like prefab modes of talking and like, in jokes and expressions and stuff that it doesn't necessarily make for great TV to see somebody

when they're in the middle of their super comfortable relationship. Unless there's tension within the relationship, then it gets interesting. Yeah, it's interesting, like the comparison between Summer House Craig and Southern Charm, or Summer House page and Southern Charm page. Like, I think that a lot of people will go into Southern Charm, hoping that we see a more real side of page. Like they we want to see relationship page. But instead what of what we see you know on Southern Charm,

we don't see relationship page. I feel like we see page going to work and just putting in the motions. Like someone checked out of their job, uh, instead of getting relationship page. And so it just, it doesn't come across as very compelling. But when we see her in the, her natural, setting on Summerhouse, I think that she's a lot better.

Yeah, it makes sense. Do you have a quote that's set out to you? Nothing too great. Shep is often a little funny. I like that he refers to the idea of him being an escort by saying, like, yeah, I hope you're ready for a night of average bliss. And also after Molly kisses him and that like horribly awkward setup, up where it's like bright lights and everybody's watching them, including a camera crew.

His response is, that was awfully nice. That's kind of funny. Yeah, I don't really have a quote. I feel like I was just overall kind of let down by this episode in general. I don't think I've got any other highlights even from this episode. Do you have anything that stood out to you? Nothing that we didn't cover really. we could just circle back to quickly, to briefly, to, to JT being kind of unfair to

if Anita, it did kind of stand out to be the way that when like JT calls her to be like, I, you have to know about this thing that they're saying I said or whatever. And then he's like, so anyways, I'm here, so come meet me. It's like, what, like, you called her. Why are you, you instead of going to her place being like, oh, come a like, it just, it just underscores that kind of like the way that they. treat their relationship differently where he just assumes like oh and i think you need to talk that i need to talk to you about this thing that i called you about that i did so you have to

leave your home and come see me where i am yeah you know it's interesting i think overall this season of southern charm has not really like been good despite having one of bravo's best villains on air right now. Like JT's probably one of the best, you know, villain guys that we have on screen right now. Because they should have let them cook instead of freezing them out. Yeah. It's, uh, it's pretty disappointing that we didn't,

we didn't get more there. Uh, who are your stars from this episode? Uh, first star I got to go with Vinita. Uh, like I mentioned, I emphasize with her position a lot. I find it easier to, I find it very easy to take her position. I like the moment where Leva kind of brings her into the confrontation and where at the start, you can see that she's really not making eye contact with Ryan. Like she's really uncomfortable with it and just like cannot look him in the eyes.

But throughout the conversation, she really builds confidence. And then she starts looking him in the face and she started to dress him directly. And then she starts making like more clear choices. Like she asks Leva to actually leave so that they can be just one and one. And then she goes out and like checks in with Leva. and checks in with Madison too, who had briefly joined the conversation. So I thought she ended up carrying herself really well and kind of came out of it with no hard feelings in a way that I thought was impressive.

So I thought it kind of took me on a journey from her seeming very uncomfortable to be there at the start and building confidence and leaving kind of successfully and gracefully at the end. So I thought that was the kind of, that was the little journey in that scene that was that kind of took me along the most like empathetically. So I would give her my first star for for doing that. I also enjoy how Ryan like his face doesn't change, but the more like he realizes he's being accused of something. You just start to see a vein getting more and more prominent on the side of his head. yeah and he is not made for TV he is no no he's like very forgettable I was like who the

fuck is Ryan when me too this was going down to me too they keep talking about Ryan and like who's that again and I'm like oh okay and then and then he talks like he has a concussion he's he he just not yeah he's not cabaret ready maybe he got maybe got kicked in the head by an ostrich and that's why he has a trauma response to seeing their feathers and has to hide them out of his line of sight everywhere. So, uh, a Veneta first star,

uh, second star. Let's, let's give it to Shep and his nary jacket. Like him a lot. Um, uh, at a third star.

You know, why don't we, when we toss one to Lever, who, uh, who hasn't been like super president of the episodes I've seen, but, pride of Winnipeg.

Wait, what? Yeah, she's from Winnipeg. Yeah. Oh, yeah. No way. Cool. Good for her. Best person that ever come from One of them. She does a good job, like kind of commandeering the situation when she, I think, correctly detects that Vineda might not have the courage initially to, like, make it a scene. So then she's like, no, no, you know, we're going to go together and I'm going to make sure that she make this a scene. Like, that was a good move on her part. Yeah, so Leva is the, Leva is on Southern Hospitality now.

She's like the Lisa Vanderpump of that show, but she got her start on Southern Charm. I think like you're, you're right. She's got the chops. She knows to make sure that a scene is actually happening and usable on the year. So I think that was a smart move on her part. In terms of stars, I want to actually throw out a star to someone that I realize we haven't really talked about. But Sally, I think, I think that she has been a good addition to this cast.

I like her being a folly to Taylor. I, yeah, I think that she's good. She's funny. I like when she made the joke about who got the better X and she got, she got it first. And then she called Taylor out on not getting to the punchline first. So I, I like that. I think that she's been good. She's been trying to work with what she's got.

And she hasn't actually really been given a lot to work with. So, yeah, I want to give a star to her. Vanita is going to be my number one star for all the reasons that we went over. And I think I want to give a star to Shep as well. I think that, you know, he is a real pro at this. he knows how to play this like goofy aloof guy and I don't know how much of it is like him actually being a goofy aloof guy and how much of it is presentation. I think that he's just really good at his job. So I want to give him a star as well.

Hell yeah. Okay. Well, I think that about covers it for this week. Anything else before we close things out, Dylan? No, I don't think so. All right. Well, we're back and we're going to be back next week. So be sure that you leave a comment or leave us a voicemail at 1833-927-1-178. We'll play your call on our next episode and talk about it. Dylan, do you want to let people know where they can find you? Sure, you can find some of my writing about movies on my substack. I'm on there as Dylan Ferguson. If you want to hear me talking about horror movies too in case that it interests you,

look up by old podcast, which is called Mind Over Splatter. And you can just find me on Instagram and TikTok at Bravo Outsider. Be sure to hit like, subscribe, follow, leave a comment. All that engagement helps us a ton. Until next week, keep on wiping.