Oscars Outsider - RHONJ S14E02 & The Valley S01E08 Recap/Analysis (feat. Derick McDuff)

Episode Date: May 14, 2024

This week hosts Craig Midwinter and Dylan Ferguson are joined by Derick McDuff, host of the Underrated podcast to dig into S01E08 of Vanderpump Rules and S14E02 of Real Housewives of New Jersey! ���Featured Bravolebs: The Valley: Brittany Cartwright, Jax Taylor, Kristen Doute, Luke Broderick, Danny Booko, Nia Booko, Janet Caperna, Jason Caperna, Jesse Lally, Michelle Saniei Lally Real Housewives of New Jersey: Teresa Giudice, Melissa Gorga, Dolores Catania, Margaret Josephs, Jennifer Aydin, Danielle Cabral, Rachel Fuda 📣 Stay Connected: Find the Underrated podcast on your platform of choice or at https://underratedmoviepodcast.com Follow Underrated on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/underratedmoviepodcast Find Dylan Ferguson on Substack at https://dylanferguson.substack.com/ Find Bravo Outsider on Instagram at ⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/bravooutsider https://www.bravooutsider.com 📖 Credits Music by FASSounds from Pixabay #vanderpumprules #bravo #realitytv #thevalley #RHONJ #RealHousewives

They're trying to amass this huge army against what is effectively just Teresa. Like, Teresa is so dangerous. The fact that she's even got Jennifer Aiden on her side in order to, like, do whatever she wants, is seen as a huge threat. I think one of the things that is great about Teresa as a housewife is that she doesn't really care where the pieces are on the chessboard. She can play from any position and still be dangerous and cause. chaos. She's not trying to get people on side, which is such a contrast with what we're seeing on the other side where Margaret and Melissa are and Rachel are frantically trying to, you know, pull the people that are kind of straddling the middle, like Dolores and Danielle.

Melissa's like LeBron. She's got to just surround herself with all-stars to win titles. Can't do it. Hello and welcome to the Bravo Outsider Podcast. I'm your host, Craig Midwinter. We're coming at you at a new time of the week, changing our release schedule up a little bit. Joined, as always, by Dylan Ferguson. Dylan, how's it going? Just fine.

Still morning to loss of Vanderpump a little bit, but otherwise fine and dandy. Yeah, I got to pour out a pump teeny. Yeah. Our guest is none other than Derek McDuff, the host of the underrated podcast. My faith is strong and my ass ain't that either.

It's true, folks. Glad to have you on. Do you want to let our listeners know a little bit of your podcast? Yeah, absolutely. So I do a movie podcast, like you said, it's called underrated, where, you know, as the name would imply, every other week, I talk about an underrated movie or an underappreciated movie or maybe one that's slipped under the radar, just kind of passed most people by. So, yeah, it's a lot of fun because I get to talk a lot about movies. that wouldn't normally be discussed on other podcasts and get to kind of like uncover some hidden gems, some things that people might not appreciate, much like, you know, some of the Bravo shows. People don't appreciate all the great thematic things that are going on. But I like to delve into those shows and examine them.

So you can find that however you're listening to this podcast, just look up underrated movie podcast, and it'll show right up there. Yeah, it really aligns well, I think, with what we're doing here because I do think that when a lot of the discussion surrounding reality TV happens, people kind of overlook a lot of the artfulness of it. So I'm excited to maybe dive into a little bit of that this week. But I was saying before we started rolling, I was feeling like this week was a little thin in terms of the material that we're covering. And Dylan, I think you were in agreement. but we're going to talk about real hostages of New Jersey and the Valley. Derek, were either of these more or less compelling to you? I thought the Valley was pretty interesting.

Let's dive into the Valley then. We'll get started with a quick summary of what happened this episode as far as you understood it. All right, so basically, Janet had a Habachi party, but not everybody was invited. A little bit after that, Jesse. and Michelle were having marital problems because it seemed to me that maybe Jesse could not stand up for himself and he's about to go to some weird wellness retreat. And then finally, there's another fashion party where the tables are turned now, a fashion, a kind of fashion kickoff rejuvenation something party where now Janet isn't the one that's invited. That's a great summary. The main thing that I had in

terms of like themes for this this episode is just like elementary school you're not invited to my birthday party energy the whole this like through line of people trying to not invite someone that there that is on the outs is pretty strong through this and leading up into this this moment for the um jacks announcing at the end to all the people who are not invited on janet's behalf um yeah just we've talked about this season of the Valley really exploring this contrast between these people who are supposedly adulting and it being a completely juvenile like conflicts throughout. Yeah, this just continued that trend in another way. Dylan, was there anything that stood out to you in terms of how this was presented? Not necessarily in terms of how it was presented.

I just wanted to jump in on what you said about Jacks. announcing Janet's disinviting people or uninviting people, which was the funniest part of it for me, just like how delighted Jacks was to pretend to soberly have the unfortunate duty of saying that some people aren't invited. And just like, you know, making a big show of it, making a big declaration in front of everybody. He loves it. He loves to do this so much. And that was kind of adorable for me. Totally.

Derek, how about you? Anything stand up to you with the presentation on this? Yeah, so, you know, it reminded me, I like how you guys have kind of, you know, you'll find these big literary comparisons to things. And one that it really reminded me of was like the Viking sagas, like the, you know, the stories of these cycles of revenge that just keep getting repeated.

and when somebody killed your father, so you go kill their father, but now they want revenge on you just goes and goes and goes, like the Volsong saga. If you know people are read up on their epics is what it reminds me of because it's like, oh, well, you had a party and that, and so she was invited, right? So now you have to throw your own party where now Janet's not invited, and that leads to the ultimate conclusion of the thing

where now they're going to this big, the big bear party, you know the you know the I guess the the baby shower party baby mood I've ever heard that before you ever had not either I have never have you ever heard of this before yeah I have heard heard of that yeah what is it what does it mean I didn't understand I think she did a like pretty good job of explaining it but it's like typically just something that couples will do where they go on their last kind of trip as a solo couple before kids are the baby guns yeah okay okay all right I see I see I see But much like those old Viking sagas, it's like there could be many points when you could just break the cycle of revenge. And there's a point when, you know, Zach comes to her and he's like, hey, just invited to the party.

Let her be the one to say no. And the cycle of revenge could theoretically be broken right there. But of course, she doesn't take the high road. She keeps that cycle of revenge going. And, you know, ultimately leading to the big not getting invited to the party at the end of the episode where there, you know, there's water works. drama and Jacks, as you put it really well, Dylan, is just like, seems like, oh, I don't want to have to be the bearer of bad news and he's having a great time, you know. So all the petty drama, you know, was really in this cycle of revenge that I found fascinating here, you know, because that's something

I'm not super familiar with what's not watching a lot of these Bravo shows. So it was kind of my first introduction to some of that stuff. I've seen reality shows, obviously, but not this specific, you know, flavor of it. Yeah, I think you really did grip on to a to an important narrative technique in these shows, which is, yeah, just the continual retribution that creates for unending drama cycles that will just like, that could theoretically go on forever. Totally. I think that is something that we see on Bravo from time to time in like really, you know, high skilled reality performers. The ability. The ability. to make something out of nothing.

I mean, this is Janet's first season, and I think that she is doing a great job, kind of like she gets the game. She was able to turn this thing that she has nothing to do with. She really had no beef with Kristen, and now it's this, like, huge, it's snowballed into this huge problem. I really like the agency that reality TV performers have,

in terms of like driving the plot forward. We always talk about kind of the game and being able to sort of see the playing field. I think that for a kind of a season one of a reality TV show, we're seeing a lot higher level like plot orchestration in this franchise than we have elsewhere. And that's like that should be expected. because Jackson, Kristen, are both great at that. But I think having Janet in the mix has really helped. I think there's been a few points where it could have fizzled.

We saw how both Kristen and Jacks have tried to, you know, play puppeteer with Jasmine with this whole rumor situation. And it went nowhere. She just kind of went back and forth between them and didn't do anything with this information. So to have someone who can, you know, see what the layout of the playing field is like and make moves like Janet has done in order to create this division, I think is really great. Yeah, that's been one of the most interesting things to watch about the show so far is because I don't know if you do this, Derek, but Kristen and Jacks were previously on Mandirpump rules for a long time. so they've been doing like reality TV for a long time. And then we've got a bunch of people who are less familiar with it. So it's just kind of been interesting seeing kind of who can try to play the game,

uh, that of drama, uh, on who can play with Jackson, Kristen, who can like keep with them and who is like cut out for this and who's not. And we're still kind of starting to find that out because we're still just seeing a little bit more and more of all these performers. And there is a good contrast between Jasmine and Janet in this episode because Jasmine is, like you say, Greg, she's really put in the position to be the one who shers information around. And we see her sitting down to lunch with Kristen. And she does not look cut out for this. Like Jasmine's like, she's got a good screen presence and stuff. But she's like nervous as hell. Like it just doesn't seem to to know how to proceed. Like she's like,

she doesn't have that killer instinct to like to find the right word to start manipulating other people. Whereas Janet seems like ready to go. Like she like wants to. She wants to stir shit up. And that's one of the things that's fun as we're starting to learn a little bit more about the relationship between Janet and Jason is that it's starting to see more and more like Janet is like really eager to get her hands

dirty and Jason is just kind of a bit of like a straight-laced boy scout who doesn't really want to do any of this stuff and that that difference between them is starting to get really funny to be. Especially like when they're playing that game that couples game on the couch

and stuff. It was like I felt like a great encapsulation of that vibe, like, when they're talking about sticking fingers and asses. And Janet just says, like, I wish I could get a knuckle in. That plus the fact that, like, they both answer that the most public place they've had sexes on their couch. Yeah. It was just like pretty funny to me as like a little sneak peek into their relationship. Yeah.

Yeah. And the one other thing, too, I wanted to just add that I forgot to mention about the whole relating to a Vikings thing. is that there's a character in this, and I think he's like a background character. He shows up just in the background of the party, but his name is Jor, like Thor,

but with a J, which I was like, there we go, there's another Viking connection. I just took immediate notice of that guy. He didn't do much, but I was like, your name is almost Thor,

it's Jor. Like, that seems like a joke. Like a, so I just said, but yeah, no, I knew that this was a spinoff of Vanderpump rules.

I didn't know who had come over and who hadn't, because originally I watched this. I watched both the episodes like today, like this morning and last night, but I had watched the episode of the Valley. I was with my friend Leo, who is very much into like all of these shows,

like Vanderpump Rules and all the Housewife shows. And I was like, and we were very intoxicated. And I was like, all right, give me, give me a little bit of the, you know, the prep. He was filling you in a little bit. He was feeling you in a little bit. a little bit of the backstory. Exactly.

So I was like, all right, I got caught up a little bit so I know where I'm at. And then I was like, all right, time to watch this again with a critical eye. Yes. Another thing I want to talk about just in terms of like the presentation on this. One thing that I think that, you know, this show does really well or the producers behind this show do really well is making use of like contrast in terms like for the sake of the the story and for character development. We got a really good look at that.

Again, during that game that they were playing. I think they used the contrasting answers to really, like, build the characters up. But also leading up to that Hibachi dinner, the entrances that we got for Jesse and Michelle being so cold and, like, he can't, like, touch her without her recoiling to the next people that enter is, Danny and Nia and it's so warm and they're like basically on on top of each other.

I really enjoyed that use of contrast in in their in their body language and how their relationship was was portrayed. Totally. But at the same time, it's kind of funny that when Danny and you have to do it, they're like, who would you want to sleep with in the friend group or who would you want to have a threesome with or whatever the question was? Right away Nia is making gestures to Danny like don't don't do it. Don't fucking say anything.

Like she just she makes gestures and he and he and he picks up on it so hard. He writes something like, no one, no one. And Miss USA, my lovely wife who I would never think about doing anything to harm. So that was kind of funny. It does like they do seem like a very loving couple. But then you also like see in that moment that kind of like the way they really set up fences to like kind of maintain what they have. That was that was kind of an interesting another interesting glimpse that we got out of that scene. And I thought that scene also did something that set up what would pay off later on the episode really well, which was that it was all about couples, right? Like they're playing a literal couples game. Everyone is all coupled off. To one point, you know, like, you know, Jack ends up alone and after being kind of a jerk, where he's like, you want me to stay? Oh, you don't? Okay, see a bye. And he's just like coangs the door. But, you know, it's all about couples. And then one of the big ends, like a big emotional beat, I thought at the end of the episode was,

Zach not being invited and him feeling like he's not being invited because he's single. And I love the phrase he used. He's like, I'm being singled out. And I really felt for the guy, even though his haircut is like horrible. Like, yeah.

We haven't talked about Zach's hair before on this show. It is odd. Like that where is this hair line? Is it? I can't tell where his hair. It's astounding. And you forget that. It's kind of a Lego. It's kind of a Lego man. Right? That's like a Lego man. Yeah, he's kind of giving like, if Omaralis, the leader of Bolivia.

I don't know. Anyway, it's a remarkable hair later. It's like Roman kind of, but like, yeah, no, I don't know. But I really felt for him at the end of the episode because, you know, like, we've all been there. Like, everybody's had like their, when they're like single or something and they have like their group of friends that are all coupled up. And, you know, like I went on a trip with like my brother and his fiance and then like a couple other couples recently. And it was me and my other brother. And we were just like, yeah, we're just the single guys.

They're all just doing. doing all their couple stuff, you know. And he didn't even get invited on this trip. And there was people that didn't get invited because of drama, but he seemingly didn't get invited because he's just, you know, doesn't have a partner or whatever. And so he feels like equivalent to the people who are being quote unquote punished for the fighting and the drama.

And he didn't do anything wrong. At least, you know, I don't just with me with my limited knowledge, that's how I took it. Yeah, totally. I think that like he is someone that seems like they are working very hard to try to play at a top level. Like he seems like very smart. And so at the end when we got him crying over being singled out and like not being invited, it felt a little forced and phony to me.

I felt like he was trying to like make a moment to get some sympathy. You know, maybe it's just like. It worked on me. Rucky nerves. Oh, yeah. Kind of on me, too. At first, I kind of felt like he was overselling it, but then the tears felt kind of genuine.

Genuins. But who knows? Who knows? What's real and what is it? But I didn't feel for him a little bit of the end. I was like, oh, shit, I think he's actually hurt. I think he's actually genuinely wounded right now. Yeah.

And like, once again, for me to feel for that guy with that haircut, impressive. Yeah. Yeah. That's just another hurdle. You have to get over. Yeah. Well, we're still talking about the couple's games. how do you have sex in Times Square?

How do you think that that works? Were they in a building? Like they couldn't have been out there with like the lights and where King Kong was running through and stuff. Yeah, were they like in the M&M store like just hiding in a ball pit or something? I don't know. Where did they do it? Was it just like the strobe coming in through the window?

Was that like turn on for them or something? I don't know. All right. Let's talk. quotes. Was there any quotes in here that stood out to you? The only quote that I noted down was, and it's kind of out of context, it doesn't make a lot of sense, but what they're talking about is the gecko food. And she says, it's pretty good. And I was like, all right, all right, cool. That just stuck out to me that, you know, the gecko food is apparently pretty tasty.

That was great. I love that. And that's speaking of moments where you like see a bit of the relationship, like through like one moment that happens. That's what right there. Like I assume that Luke Colorado has had geckos for a long time. But it has never occurred to him that he should try the food. Kristen sees the gecko food one time and she's like, I want to taste it. She's she is a certified freak. She's the best lover.

She seemed pretty cool like I say. We learned so much about Luke in that moment. Like just the fact that he has geckos tells us so much about his character. that's such a character building moment. Good all Luke. Okay, let's talk highlights. Derek, we'll start with you. What were your highlights from this episode?

I think definitely, you know, the Habachi party was a big highlight how, you know, they, it was, because, you know, all the games were happening, all the drama was happening. I think it really did a good job for a Bravo outsider to understand the world and understand the rules of the game. that these people are all playing with each other. So that was definitely a highlight. And we also got my boy Jor there. So, you know, that was cool. Also, another highlight was when, you know, they were talking about their divorce,

their upcoming divorce. And sorry, I keep forgetting. There's so many people. I have my notes and I keep trying to scold. Who the two getting divorced? Jesse and Michelle. Jesse and Michelle. Thank you.

Yeah. and how Jesse is just seems like, I don't know, man, such a pushover. And he's like, I don't know. He just really was like, yeah, I'll go on this retreat because it seems like you want me to. And I'm just like, all right, man. Like that was a highlight. And then, of course, the big finale ending where Jacks delivers that while he's like got like a baby joint struck to the front of him and like coffee spilled on him. And he's like, people are crying and he's delivering this speech.

And that was definitely, I think. the really you know a good way to go out on the episode yeah you mentioned the uh the scene with jesse and michel where he's like packing to go on this retreat i really like loved this scene any scene where we have jesse and michel in isolation is almost better than when we see them out in public for the most part i think it's just such a tense and awkward environment when she enters the room She enters like a rain cloud. And like, you know, he's, he's an asshole too. But he like, his entire body language like shifts.

And he, like you said, he like rolls over. But also he feels like he's going on this trip. And he's, I think as Michelle like clocked, he's looking for an easy fix. Yeah. He wants the cheat code. He's like, yeah, my life coach says that I should go and do ayahuasca. and mushrooms and start trading Bitcoin and then I'm going to be good for you, right? I'm going to do psychedelics for one day and that'll fix me.

And Michelle, as like, part of me thinks it's bullshit. And like, yeah, Michelle, that part of you should be all of you. Like, this is bullshit. That's sorry. That's not how you fix a relationship. You don't just do psychedelics for one day and be like, I'm a better person now. Right. It's not how that works.

Yeah. Also, one more random stray observation I wanted to put out from that couple's game is I think I've also been on a second date, Lacama. So I felt seen there. Are you in L.A. by the way? Orange County. So, yeah, pretty close. You know, it's just like a 40-minute drive down there. Okay. Well, I've also fucked in Times Square, so. Um, like, um, I think we, yeah, we've pretty much gone through the main stuff. I think that I was disappointed when I found out that Michelle, like, having a boyfriend for a year, as Kristen put it, was just her texting a guy.

Like, if that's all it is, is just she texted a guy. It was like, that's kind of disappointing for me. I thought there would be juicier drama that just she's been texting somebody, you know. And I guess, I think that they're underselling it. I really feel like they're trying to undersell it. Because this whole lie situation is something that is like pieces and pieces and pieces just keep trickling out. We're not getting this whole huge bombastic lie that is being presented. We're just getting new pieces of information both about the lie and how and the flow of information.

Sure. Yeah. I think that it's, there's definitely more to it than that. Yeah. Maybe you're right. It just felt like it was being walked back from what we got in the previous episode where Christian's like, well, now everybody knows. I had to say it eventually.

She had a boyfriend for a year in this episode. They're like, she's been texting somebody. Maybe she's been emotionally cheating, which a lot of people are going to like this, but I don't really believe that emotional cheating is a thing. I'm kind of on the same page. I mean, you know, people might come after me too, but I think that's, yes. I mean, I think cheating is doing something with your body with. somebody else's body that you're not supposed to be doing.

I think it's too, you're policing somebody's life too much if you're like, your emotions also aren't allowed to escape the box with another person. I mean, I get why it's like you feel vulnerable. I don't know. I would disagree. I think that like it's about a level of intimacy and you can be like intimate about things that aren't related to sex. I, yeah, I, I think that like, um,

I think that she could have crossed a line without doing anything physical. Sure. But if that's the case, that's disappointing to me as a viewer. Right. Yeah. Totally. I want her to be begging Quentin Tarantito on the side. Yeah.

Like we speculated about earlier. Now it's an actor. Quentin's kind of an actor too, I guess. He's not ruled out yet. Yeah. Is it going to be someone famous? Bradley Cooper, maybe? Uh-huh.

I hope there's more, I do hope that we. get more juice from that from that uh what uh do you have any other highlights there dylan uh nah i think we basically went over well the the parts that i liked best yeah okay yeah i think we covered most of what i enjoyed about this i think like the core of this episode to me aside from just this theme of people like disinviting was um how we're we're not learning anything more about this lie but were slowly like being revealed the like how this information is flowing because it seemed like for so long up until this episode that this was like Kristen that was going around with this information and we got the rug pulled out from under us and it's like no actually this is jacks that started this and he put it into like Kristen's ear and now and she ran with it which is just like top tier play from from jacks like of course he's he's the pub and then we also learned that jacks learned this from brittany like that she's the like the leaky faucet here and um yeah i just really enjoyed the dimension that we got to this this information

if they're not able to give us more information about like the actual content um revealing the kind of the web surrounding this is a like a a nice consolation prize so i think that the production is doing a really good job of keeping this compelling when they might not have the material at this point in the story in order to like give us the payoff or maybe it's by design they they do have the information but they're you know playing those cards close to their chest i did want to ask you guys have you guys done habatchi have you been to a habatchi place yes yeah no i haven't that's that's why i was curious i um it's something i i mostly just know from like movies and TV. I've never actually done that.

And honestly, it seems humiliating to me. Yeah, like so degrading. Catching shrimp in your mouth like a train seal. What the fuck are they doing? It's funny because me and the guy I watch this with Leo had been to a hibachi party together. Like somebody had

like thrown it in their backyard. It was way less boozy than this. You know, but yeah, I mean, I had fun. Maybe it's because like I actually sort of knew the guy who was the hybachi guy. He was a friend of a friend. So it was just like, all right, yeah, let's go, you know. But yeah, it's, it was a lot less, you know, it was more like just some people hanging out in the backyard and having some,

some bruise and stuff like that. Nice. It is fun. Like, it is like dynamic, but like every time you go to catch something in your mouth immediately after, it's like, what am I doing? I was like, okay, this is going to be so degrading for these people. And then I, that wasn't the most degrading thing. The most degrading thing was just how Michelle was treating Jesse that entire dinner. It was, yeah, embarrassing. Right, and it culminates with him getting, like, wearing like a tutu, like the toxic Avenger and getting walked around like a dog. Yeah. Their relationship is just the worst and Kenton soon enough.

Right. I'm just like, you guys get a divorce. Yeah. They hate each other so much. Um, okay, let's, uh, let's discuss our stars. Derek will start with you. So, I mean, obviously I got to say Jor, you know, he's a star. Oh, yeah. And then, um, I'll say, you know, he won me over in the end, Zach. Uh, I really liked Zach.

And then, um, I think for my third star, I almost was going to go with the dog of Monroe, because I was, I love that they just like, that moment where they like pan over to him and like, he's the dog. And I was like, okay. But I ultimately, I got to go with Jasmine. because she seemed really interesting. Like, I, I, the, I see, she seemed cool, but also, like, she might be a master manipulator. Like, she seemed like she was just kind of on the sidelines, like, every once in a while, like, sprinkling something in.

And being, like, a chill person, nobody's really seemed that mad at her as far as I could tell. But, like, maybe she was playing both sides. She was almost like Littlefinger. I liked her. That's a really interesting read on Jasmine, because I had not considered that. she could just like have a really masterful like social game like she is using this information just not in a way that you would expect to stir up drama she's still able to have everyone on on side while um kind of poking the two bears in the situation being jackson and christin and apparently

everybody wants to have a threesome with her and she's just like whatever guys i know everybody wants it but it's not happening I think that's also kind of the easy answer because she's, she's single, right? I think she's single or is she? And I think she's bisexual too or gay or bisexual. I think she's bisexual. So it just kind of feels like more of like a safe answer for somebody who doesn't

want their partner to be pissed off at them, be like, oh, somebody who doesn't have a partner who swings both ways. That's a little bit on the safe side for me to say. I'm not going to get chewed out over this choice later today. I mean, she's hot too. I'm not saying that it's not a genuine selection either. Dylan, what are your stars here? Yeah, I don't know, man.

Jack's probably made me laugh the most. So let's give them the first star. And let's give it to Kristen. It's a little unimaginative giving them stars. But they just like, I sit up in my seat more when one of them's on screen. Kristen's presence has changed over the years, too. Like she just is, she's become a lot more languorous as she's like aged, I find. She's less like hyperactive compared to like, you know, younger Kristen and the VPR days.

And, but she's got kind of like this kind of weighty, languorous, heavy lidded presence in these scenes. That is like very compelling to be combined with her like her weirdness and, you know, wanting to eat gecko food and shit. And just like the, that energy she gives off. she's always acting like she wants to stay away from drama. And I think that might be partially genuine in terms of like an actual desire, but her whole being is compelled towards it by like a gravitational force. Just always a delight to watch for me. So I'll give her the second star, I suppose, and third start to the gecko.

Nice. I almost went with the gecko. That's weird. Yeah, I think like Kristen deserves a star here. She gave us a lot of like visual moments. this episode. We got not just the the gecko food eating, but we had her laying on the ground

while everyone, there's like a flurry of energy trying to set up this event that she's supposedly hosting. She's just laying there on the ground. While all this chaos ensues around her, the wind is like blowing things over. People are trying to get things sorted out and she's

just like just at peace in this moment surrounded by chaos. I just thought that that like perfectly encapsulated her. Kristen kind of reminds me of, and I'm sure that our non-Canadian listeners are pissed off with me for constantly referencing hockey, but I'm going to do it again. Kristen reminds me of Alexandria Ovechkin in the sense that when Ovechkin was younger, he was doing like end-to-end rushing back and forth, like a very like kinetic player.

And then you get to like older Ovechkin and he's like so languorous on the ice. And he sometimes just seems to kind of drift into the zones where he's perfectly positioned. to deliver the snipe on net. That's what Kristen's like to be. Her hyperactivity is gone. She seems oddly languorous, but still somehow seems able to just drift imperceptibly into the places where she is always the center of drama.

That's a good way to put it. As a fellow, one of the few hockey fans in Southern California, I appreciate that. Hell yeah. I want to give another start to Jacks as well. I think that there was a lot that he was doing. doing here. Well, for one, we got the reveal in terms of his role and the flow of information

here. So he gets points for that in my book. Also, I love the scene that we got between him and Brittany where he finds out that everyone is not going to be invited to this baby. And he's like, oh, I have to tell Kristen at this party. And Brit's like, why? He said, no, obviously he has. He's Jack's Taylor. Oh, I guess I'm going to have to make an announcement to everybody. Do you have to do that? Obviously, I do.

Come on. Obviously, running his hands together. They're so stoked. At the party where it's going to be the most drama. Like, come on, dude. Go back to paying attention to your kid looking that window. I love those kids looking at the window. Jack's like, hey, buddy.

I used to do that too. Come on. Also, one more question about Jax. Why is he driving a tiny little car in the intro? I have speculated that it's a DUI, because we've only seen him drive like a golf cart around. Yeah, so I don't know. That's just my guess.

Okay, okay. Nothing has been confirmed on screen, So I don't know that it's canon. But yeah, that's my head canon. Okay, okay. And then, yeah, I think my third star I'm going to give to, I actually want to give it to Janet. I think just the thoughtfulness of not inviting Kristen to this Hibachi party.

I feel like if you are like a big-brained reality personality, you might think, okay, yeah, obviously I have to invite Kristen because something's going to like explode on camera of this party and it's going to get airtime, blah, blah, blah.

But Galaxy Brain, Janet is like, hmm, this will actually snowball if I don't invite her. And it paid off because we're seeing, instead of just having a moment of conflict and chaos, we're potentially getting, you know,

a portion of the season of conflict and chaos as a result of this decision. So I am maybe projecting a, you know, a mastermind persona onto Janet, but all the evidence is pointing to, you know, her earning that. Yeah, we've seen scenes in like earlier episodes where like people are arguing and Janet is just like hovering around the corner just out of sight, listed again. Like she's given up. us enough indications that she's really like collecting information like really eager to get in there.

Even if she doesn't have like a huge personality where she is like getting emotional and stuff, she really seems eager to like start collecting and using information and start to call in the shots a bit. So I'm excited to see more from her. Yeah. She's also the protege of Sheena who is underrated in terms of her ability to navigate the reality TV landscape. Because Janet was her intern on Sheena's podcast. So I do think that... That's some lore I wasn't aware of. Yeah, yeah, she's got good pedigree.

All right, let's dive into Real Housewives of New Jersey unless there's anything you guys have to go back on. I think that about... covered it and answered all my questions. Oh, I guess the only other thing I would say is why are they going to Big Bear when they could go to Mammoth? That's the last thing I had to say.

I'm unfamiliar. Yeah, I'm unfamiliar with the area. What's, what's a difference? I mean, Big Bear is a little bit closer, I think, to a lot of people in,

you know, SoCal, but Mammoth is just kind of like a bigger, better version of it with like, because they're both like ski towns, you know, and I don't ski or anything, but I,

you know, like I said, went up to Mammoth with a couple, like, friends and family recently. And it's just, mammoth is just like kind of cooler. Like,

and it seems like the bougier one, too, you know, that if you're going, going to go up to like the mountains and have a like a classy good time. Mammoth would be the one to do whereas Big Bear is like just kind of more local a little bit. Like if you're if you're only going to take a two hour drive as opposed to a five hour drive, I guess is the difference. Oh, okay.

Yeah. I wonder if there's maybe Lisa Vanderpump opening a restaurant. I was just going to say maybe there's a better sponsorship opportunity in the big bear. Real Housewives of New Jersey. Let's get a three-sentence summary from you, Derek. All right. So the, let me see, pull up my notes here. Yeah, so, so some of the ladies are getting their butts electrocuted and rejuvenated,

while others are playing pickleball. There is an 18th birthday for Antonia with some surprisingly touching moments, and it ends with a party celebrating the sixth anniversary of a brain surgery? Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's about accurate. Okay. Okay.

So I want to ask before we really dive into this, coming out of this episode, did you feel one way or another? Are you more team Teresa or team Melissa? Do you have an opinion on this conflict that we're starting to see emerge? I just felt like they kind of just both sucks. Like, I didn't really, I was like, like, oh, man. You got done so dirty. I was just like, I don't like really either of you guys to be honest. That's good.

That should be a safe opinion for our thumbs operating on YouTube. Okay, let's talk about the artistic presentation of this. Derek, anything stand up to you? You know, I was kind of looking for something in this, And nothing really stuck out to me in this episode other than, I guess, just kind of the themes of, you know, vanity and just because there was a lot of that. Even more than in, you know, the valley, it felt like these were people who were just all about like, let's have like, let's just, you know, be rejuvenate ourselves and like electricure butts and, you know, do all these insane things and throw parties for literally the most insane reason. I've never like a party like I said the party for the brain surgery anniversary thing is like yeah like what is it like it just felt like the the excesses of like wealth and it was maybe commenting on that in some way which doesn't seem like unique to this episode or you know anything it seems like a very common thing with especially these kinds of reality shows yeah totally Dylan how about how about yourself um I'll just say that I did really like the cross cutting between pickleball and people with their exposed asses in mysterious contraptions.

You know, you've always got to come up with ways to make people gossiping in a room a little more visually dynamic. And they got a couple good ones there. And to just like cross cut between them was like very visually entertaining. So, you know, good work on that, I guess. Yeah, totally. I think that there wasn't a lot going on in this episode in terms of, you know, a thoughtful artistic presentation, if I'm being completely honest.

I am worried that maybe Real Housewives of New Jersey is going to be a little bit of a dry well this season, mostly because we're not seeing Teresa and Melissa interact at all. That relationship is almost going to be frozen in time, and that is a real pillar of this this show, the ability for Teresa to kind of navigate things with Joe and Melissa. I mean, the rumors are that they don't interact at all this season whatsoever. So I'm a little worried about what's in store for us this season on New Jersey. At the same time, it's episode two. They're still like setting the table.

Like, let's give them a chance. Yeah, yeah, true. And I mean, it's not like this has, you know, been a. strong point of the New Jersey version of Real Housewives. It's maybe the least artful in terms of how they

do, how they communicate stories visually. I think one of the things that New Jersey excels at is the actual like the game, the host wife game. And I do think that we did see we did see a lot of that

this episode. So we're seeing kind of Margaret and Melissa this side of thing's really trying to pull people over. We saw it last episode with Dolores and a little bit with Danielle. We're really seeing them work on Jen Fessler. That side of the house feels very

very panicked. And they're trying to amass this huge army against what is effectively just Teresa. Like, Teresa is so dangerous with, you know, the ability to play the game. The fact that she's even got Jennifer Aiden on her side in order to, like, do whatever she wants is seen as a huge, as a huge threat. Yeah. Plus, she's got her new henchman and Louis, too. Yeah, that's true.

Um, okay, let's, uh, let's get a, a quote. Derek, what were any quotes stand up to you? Yeah, the quote that I thought was the best was from when they were playing pickleball. And, uh, somebody says, uh, I always sleep with the instructor to get into the sport. I thought that was, that was a pretty solid great quote. Yeah, yeah, that's Margaret there. That's a good one. I, I, I personally, I was a big fad of when they're talking about what the word roadie means.

And I'm pretty sure is Danielle who says like a roadie. That sounds like a blowjob at a minivan behind a gas station. That's really good. The level of detail. And that was just very, very important. Another good one also actually, again, Danielle, you know, got a lover. She's like, you know, fool me once. Shame on you.

Fool me four, five, six, seven times. and then Rachel finishes the sentence forward where she's like, yeah, go fuck yourself. Like, yep, that's how that expression works. Speaking of expressions and how they work, I liked the one where someone said, explore your wild oats. I thought that was a pretty good one. Yeah, Melissa comes out with that. Personally, I'm a little suspicious.

I feel like that was an intentional malapropism. I thought that she was trying to be cute there, but it was kind of funny. What do you think, Craig? Do you think that was intentional or was she just fucking up the phrase? Oh yeah, it was it was giving Teresa it was like she was trying to create a Teresa moment because Teresa just so bad with the like the quotes in remembering how they work yeah I feel like she was trying to do exactly that and there goes our rating I'm watching our thumbs down roll in on on this video so it's like come out as pro

pro tria you came out as pro trisa a long ago I was one of the first things you've ever done on the show Okay, well, I'm going to lean into it a little bit now. I'll get things started with the highlights. I talked about how gameplay is kind of at the forefront of this. I really like the moment where Teresa was talking with Danielle and Jen, while they were doing the assnapping thing, where Teresa is like, I don't tell you who to be friends with.

Like, she's right. She never does dictate, you know, who you can, like, play ball with. She's she's not ever trying to organize a freeze out. I think one of the things that is great about Teresa as a housewife is that she doesn't really care where the pieces are on the chess board. She can play from any position and still be dangerous and cause chaos because she's just like she's so like reactive but also I think underrated as a threat in terms of how she moves information around she can just like she can make things happen from from any position so um yeah it's definitely like manipulation to say hey i don't i don't tell you who to be friends with but like she's

she's right she can say that confidently because she doesn't because it it doesn't matter she's going to play the board however it is she's not trying to get people on side which is such a contrast with um you know what we're seeing on the other side where margaret it and Melissa are and Rachel are frantically trying to, you know, pull the people that are kind of straddling the middle with Dolores and Danielle. Yeah. Melissa's like LeBron. She's got to just surround herself with All-Stars to win titles.

Can't do that. Except for sometimes when the All-Stars end up ruining the team for years. That might be what we're seeing happening. Right. Who's going to like what's the clippers of like who's, Who's going to get traded to the other? Like who's going to end up on the Jersey shore? Okay, there you go.

Yeah, I think Jackie is a big trade this season on Real Housewives of New Jersey. So Jackie is someone we didn't see this episode, but she has had a lot of past conflict with Teresa. And by all indications on the previews and what we've been seeing, it looks like she has defected to that side. So that's going to be a big trade to watch. watch. Also, Fessler was really falling for, um, for Teresa's charm, I guess, is Teresa have charm? I mean, I know your answer, Craig. But Fessler was, was really, um, you know,

a meanable to, to Teresa and, uh, and, and going towards her side of things, even as Margaret was like, apparently staring daggers at her from across the room. Yeah, I loved how, like, afraid they were when, you know, Fessler went over to talk to Teresa just on her own. They're like, because, like, last season, Fessler was basically stapled to Marguerge. Like she was like completely her sidekick the whole season long. So that was a, that was a pretty shocking moment, I guess.

Yeah, totally. Yeah, I think we saw one of the, the subtitles while they were micdavut was like, oh, worried about what Fessler is going to say now that she's had a cocktail in her. They don't want to give Teresa any more information because any little thing could be potentially dangerous in Teresa's hand. That is what's so great about their show is that it's like it's just spycraft. It's like a Cold War thriller. Like it's just it's all about trafficking information and how information comes to you and like who is a double agent and stuff. It is absolutely like a John LeCarray novel.

It is it's amazing how how. how dense it becomes. Right. Now that Shogun is over. I got to get something else. I get all this crazy spycrafted double crosses. Well, if you're interested in exploring Real Housewives of New Jersey as Cold War Allegory Moore, check out our YouTube channel. We've got a video essay on there.

What if Teresa Judites exploded in the Challenger disaster? An alternate history. Check it out. That's pretty good. Okay. So let's get into our highlights. Derek, we'll start with you. Yeah, I think my highlight was that 18th birthday party in the middle of it.

That was the only moment when I was really, really thoroughly engaged. And I think a big part of it came when Joey was talking to his gay friends, you know, who were like, I guess engaged and how he was going to be the efficient. And Joey was talking about like how he has like a difficult relationship with his own family and then were there. But he had been like accepted into this family. And he was just, you know, really like. great in accepting of his friends and he was he's one of those guys you know who clearly like he doesn't like he's not raised in a place where he like was around a lot of you know probably a lot of queer people or you know people that were not like himself but he was just so like he was just like a good guy

he was just like an idiot doing his best and I kind of like found that really endearing and powerful and he's just like putting his armorts around them he's I'm going to be the efficient and then when he's practicing in the car and he's like I pronounce you man and wedding. I thought that was, that could be another quote. But yeah, that, that for me was was by far the highlight of the whole episode. I really loved that. Yeah, I think that that was a really great scene for Joe as well. It, Melissa is definitely on a, you know, a PR campaign for for Joe this season. We've talked, we've shown her, you know, kind of like build him up, uh, several times over the course of this, this episode.

We talk, we hear her talk about how, like, great her family is and, and stuff like that. This is really the only way that she's able to kind of come at Teresa so far this episode, because, you know, this shattered relationship that Joe and Teresa have is, yeah, it's kind of the only thing that she seems like she's able to weaponize right now. Dylan, what are your highlights? Like I think you guys this episode didn't exactly blow me out of the water. One thing I will say,

and I've made this point about New Jersey in the previous season, is that the parties they have in New Jersey seem way more appealing to me than the parties they have in other shows. That their Jersey show party actually was like, I want to be their vibes. Like they're, you know,

they've got nokey and high. eyeballs and like fat grilled shrimp that you can just load up on your plate. Nobody's going to make you bark and clap to have it tossed in your mouth. You know, on the docks with the sea breeze coming in, it looked, that looked chill to me. Like it looked like an actual fun, comfortable vibe. So kind of neither here nor there, but I just wanted to point out that that party looked kind of fun to be. Nice. I mean, I would go to these parties for sure, absolutely.

Yeah. Yeah. And the Jersey parties always look like they're actually. a ton of fun. Like there's people definitely enjoying themselves at these parties. It's not just like this empty excuse for everyone to be in one space and

yeah, it seems like it's not like over curated for like Instagram photos the way like some of the parties that you have in like Beverly Hills and Orange County seem to be like just all about the aesthetic and not the actual just having fun with your friends the kind of thing. Yeah. So so that that that seems

cool. But yeah, it just, it feels like the the chest pieces are just kind of getting put in their starting positions right now. Like maybe a pawn here and there is, is moving up. But, you know, I guess I'm just, I'm describing Jen Fessler as a pawn. But otherwise, it's like, we'll see. it's we'll see if that that envelope that John Fuda waved around in the reunion it actually gets opened or if they're like actually is going to be blow out new information that becomes revealed or if that all stays sealed I don't know yeah totally um yeah I echo what you're saying I don't have much to add on here I um yeah I think that we're seeing this new John Fuda emerge.

I think that that is maybe one of the more interesting things that we've seen so far. We talked a little bit about how much his personality seems to have shifted in the premiere. That was definitely continued in this episode. I thought that it was interesting. There was a quote from him where he says that he doesn't like it when people play both sides. And he directs that out like, or he says that directly to Danielle. And Danielle is in a position where she is playing the middle. We've also got Fessler kind of playing in the middle.

You know, this is kind of like an emotional, it seemed like it was an emotional reaction, but I think there's a lot of, like, thought. The strategy definitely seems to be like, we need to divide this. We need people to land on one side of the line. And he's trying to set the foundation for that. Yeah, we'll see what happens,

guess. Again, there's not a ton to really discuss on this episode as far as I'm concerned. Yeah. All right. Let's talk about our stars. Derek, who are your stars here? Yeah. So like you guys said, you know, this seems to be like that super compelling of an episode, at least, you know, compared to probably some other ones. So I had a little bit of trouble, like, grasping on to anybody. But I do want to shout out the lady who was running those, like, butt paddle, whatever. Like shout to her.

The ass contraption. Exactly. She's doing the Lord's work electrocating these ladies' asses, you know. Good for her. You know, you gotta get your bag somehow. So, you know, shout to her. Also shout out to the pickleball instructor who might get laid out of this, you know? Who knows?

We'll see. We'll see. And then for my third star, I think it's got to be Joe. You know, like I mentioned previously, at least in this episode, he seemed like he had a really cool vibe that it was a lot more, a lot of the stuff he was doing was a lot more positive than I felt a lot of the scheming and manipulating. And maybe he's doing that in other episodes, but in this episode, I liked him a lot. Awesome. Dylan, how about you?

You know, the two quotes I highlighted were both from Danielle. So let's give her the first star because she's, she's quotable. Just always, always fun to see what's going to come out of her both. And also, like, props for her, for, like, delivering her important information while she was in the ass contraption. Um, that's, that's a pro move. Um, let's give a second start. You know, I'll give one to Joe Gorga too. I'm not a huge Joe Gorga fan, but you're absolutely right, Derek that he like,

this was a good look for him. He came off as, as a big old sweetie. Uh, so, so sure, let's give, uh, give him a stick tap there. Um, and, um, third star, um, uh, I don't know, man. Uh, let's, you know what? It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, let's give, let's give, let's give Nate a star. a star because you know he got brain surgery

and so unlike everybody else at least he has an excuse I was almost going to give one to even though he wasn't in the episode Nate's brain surgeon because we're giving us a reason to have this party yeah yeah I think those are

those are good stars I am wanting to give Rachel Fuda a star like I feel like she's got so much potential but we're just really not seeing too much out of her just yet. So, you know, TBD on her this season. I think that I'm going to have to give a star to John Fuda.

Again, he's the one in that duo that is moving the ball. So give him a star. Danielle, for the reasons that you mentioned, Dylan, but also for having this party and making sure, sure that both sides are coming together for it. I think that that is, you know, we need people in the middle just so that we can have these situations where there is potential for conflict. And then I want to give Margaret a star as well. I think that we got some good lines from her. I feel like we are seeing her emerge as the true like mastermind on the team Melissa side. You know, I think that she's

really the one that is pulling the strings over there. And if we're going to see a conflict this season, I don't think it's going to be between Teresa and Melissa directly. It's going to be Teresa and Margaret. Or maybe it's going to be Gen Aiden and Margaret.

That could be something that's going down and it could be even more like the Cold War where we're seeing these proxy wars being fought. So yeah, interested to see how that develops. Like you said, not a mind-blowing episode

but it's early. A lot of Jersey left. Yeah. Cool. Well, thank you so much for doing this, Derek. Do you want to let everyone know where they can find you? Right. Yeah, thank you so much for having me.

And yeah, just look up Underrated Movie Podcast anywhere on any of the podcast apps and it'll come up on all those social medias. It'll come up. You can even go to, there's a Patreon or where I do a bonus podcast, just Patreon.com slash,

rated movie podcast to find all the stuff there. I come up with new stuff all the time over there. And yeah, if you want to find some more of my other stuff, I do some writing for places like Watchmojo or Film Threat. Just look up Derek McDuff on any, pretty much anywhere. And I'll come up. I'm on Letterbox, of course. You can find me there and check out some other stuff that I've been watching.

But yeah, underrated movie podcast is the big one. Awesome. Thanks so much. Dylan, want to let everyone know where they can find you? Yeah, Dylan Ferguson. You can read some of my thoughts on contemporary movies on a substack just under my name. And if you want to hear me talking about horror movies, you can look up back episodes of the now defunct horror movie podcast, Mind Over Splatter. That is a great name for a podcast, by the way. That's incredible.

I'm still proud of it years later. Well, that's been Bravo Outsider for this week. You can find us online, Bravo Outsider.com. We're on Instagram, TikTok. at Bravo Outsider. Check out our website, bravoo outsider.com. We post VR versions of some of our episodes.

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