Oscars Outsider - RHONJ S14E04 & The Valley S01E10 Recap/Analysis | Bravo Outsider Podcast (feat. Jenna Klaus @didimydoe)

Episode Date: May 28, 2024

This week hosts Craig Midwinter and Dylan Ferguson are joined by Jenna Klaus (@didimydoe on TikTok and @didimydoute on Instagram) to dig into S01E10 of Vanderpump Rules and S14E04 of Real Housewives of New Jersey! Chapters: 00:00 - What is Margaret Doing? 00:43 - Intro 2:29 - Some thoughts on Vanderpump Rules S11 6:34 - The Valley S01E10 Recap/Analysis 38:06 - Real Housewives of New Jersey S14E10 Recap/Analysis 1:14:11 - Outro 🍸Featured Bravolebs: The Valley: Brittany Cartwright, Jax Taylor, Kristen Doute, Luke Broderick, Danny Booko, Nia Booko, Janet Caperna, Jason Caperna, Jesse Lally, Michelle Saniei Lally Real Housewives of New Jersey: Teresa Giudice, Melissa Gorga, Dolores Catania, Margaret Josephs, Jennifer Aydin, Danielle Cabral, Rachel Fuda 📣 Stay Connected: Find Jenna on TikTok at https://www.tiktok.com/@didimydoe Find Jenna on instagram at https://www.instagram.com/didimydoute Find Dylan Ferguson on Substack at https://dylanferguson.substack.com/ Find Bravo Outsider on Instagram at ⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/bravooutsider https://www.bravooutsider.com 📖 Credits Music by FASSounds from Pixabay #vanderpumprules #bravo #realitytv #thevalley #RHONJ #RealHousewives

It was another kind of surprising emotion-based misplay for Margaret to go into Jackie so hard in the dressing room. Who knew about your book? So what? Okay, my mother hasn't read. After we kind of saw her really like push away Jen Fessler. We speak poorly about Louis incessantly. I want to not say that I speak poorly about Louis incessantly. Does she speak poorly about?

Just really make Jackie an enemy just felt like another instance of Margaret pushing away anybody who could potentially be an ally of her. when I expect her to be more of a strategic player. And maybe there is like a 4D chest that I'm not perceiving yet. God knows that happens in Jersey. There is. I think there is. I cracked it. Now Craig's ready to give me his theory.

Let's go. Come on, let it on me. Hello and welcome to the Bravo Outsider podcast. I'm your host Craig Midwinter joined as usual by Dylan Ferguson. Dylan, what's up? Not too much. How you doing, boss? I'm doing really good.

You can see I'm like ready for a charity ball game here. put me in coach Well, some of us can't see because we're doing a podcast but I understand the idea. Well, I am super excited about our guests today. One of my favorite all-time

TikTok accounts, it's the force behind D.D. My Doe. It's Jenna Klaus. Love me or hate me. There's no in between with me. Says Daniel Stobb. Oh, yeah.

The cop without a badge. The cop. without a badge. Hop without a badge. Beverly, right? Yeah, she, she is an icon. I miss her on screen, because that is one of those people that is just like lightning in a bottle. She's like, like Kristen Doty, whenever she is on screen, it's just like such an unpredictable energy. It's amazing. Yeah, I've actually made multiple videos about Doty and Danielle, uh, maybe being the same person, twin flames, just very, very, very similar personalities and gravitas on screen that really, really draws me to them.

Yeah, that kind of matches the energy of your TikTok edits, if I'm being honest. This kind of like, it's totally chaotic and just like you don't know what you're going to expect. They're just so well put together. I love them so much. So we're going to be talking about the Valley and Real Housewives of New Jersey, but a lot of your content is about Vanderpump Rules. So I want to pick your brain just a little bit before about what your thoughts were on this season of Vanderpump Rules. Yeah.

So I like the season. It's not the best of all time. But I really like how they are going about kind of, the aftermath of Scandival. It seems really real to me. Because, you know, it is, when you think about it, they mentioned this on the show where people have mentioned this, that it's really, I believe, only three months filming past the,

I guess the moment that Ariana found that video. So I think it's pretty true to life in the sense. that what she's going through is real on TV. And I like that. And then I like kind of all of the other personalities showing through, particularly Sheena. I love Sheena. I know people have a lot of problems with her,

but I love her, and I especially appreciate this season how she's staying true to herself. And she is being a flip-flopper. and, you know, wants to be friends with Ariana, but also, you know, sees that opportunity with Sand the ball. Totally. I think it's interesting that the relationship that the audience has with the characters on Vanderpump rules, because a lot of these shows, like a lot of the hostwife shows,

people will develop, like, a cult-like following towards certain personalities. Whereas on Vanderpump Rules, you haven't really seen that. We've got that right now with, like, Ariana. in the fallout of Scandival. And I guess, like, you could say that that happened with Stasi. But aside from that, the bulk of this cast is, you know, people have a kind of waxing and waning in terms of their relationship with these characters. And that's pretty interesting for a show that has such a diehard following, that it's not

exactly tied to any one particular character. Yeah, that's a really good point. I think for me, I've watched and rewatched so many times that in my experience, I do have, and you can tell from my videos, that I do have that kind of like cult-like obsession with some characters, Doty primarily, but Sheena and Jacks. And I think the more you watch it, the more you separate yourself from the immediate feelings, you get like, oh, Sheena, she's so annoying. In retrospect, I think Sheena is the heart and soul. Banderpump Rule, she's hilarious. I couldn't love her enough. Yeah, totally agree. I'm always singing the praises of Sheena, who is someone that I think not a lot of people really truly appreciate what she brings to the show. And another person that I think is completely underappreciated on Banderprules is Katie Maloney. I think what she brings to the table is that.

just like this presence that is a dark rain cloud over every environment that she's in. It's this like this constant like poking and prodding and you're never able to get like comfortable in your seat when Katie Maloney is on screen. And that is something that I think is definitely leads the audience to not necessarily like her. But I don't think that liking someone is, you know, a prerequisite. to being a good character on reality television. Yeah. Absolutely. And you can learn to love someone.

Yeah, totally. Let's get into the shows that we're talking about today. So like I mentioned, we're going to talk about Real Housewives of New Jersey and the Valley. Which of these did you like the best? I liked the Valley the best. And I think there's a couple of reasons. but I mean, I am more familiar with the Valley.

I've watched the entire season, so I have some context. I still would say New Jersey is my favorite Housewives franchise, but I've fallen behind in the past couple of seasons. But I liked, so I like the Valley, the best. Awesome. Yeah, let's talk about the Valley. Can you start us off with a brief, summary of what happened this episode from your perspective? Yeah. So from my perspective,

the group descended on Big Bear. And I think that the trip really revealed dynamics between each couple separately, even though they were there as a group. The men talk amongst themselves about relational hardships while the women discuss the apparent turmoil between Jacks and Brittany. and I really think it was like a couple's retreat without the therapy. Yeah, totally. I want to dive into our artistic analysis because this was one of the best episodes for imagery and themes from my perspective of the Valley that we have seen so far. I'm curious if you guys felt the same way.

Dylan, let's start with you. What stood out to you on this episode? I definitely agree that the imagery was pretty strong in this one. Like it's getting to have like a pretty good like visual language. A couple of things that stood out for me, just little details like after kind of most of the drama that night. I think one of the last things, if not the last things we see of that night is Janet and Jason like having a little little conference with each other over like the outdoor like fire pit area. and I and just kind of being like oh man did we like make a mistake having a kid because all these people who already have kids are just like in terrible relationships and hate each other. But the choice to have them like bundled up by the fire,

but to have like very close close ups on their faces created like this kind of little intimate end cap to the scene that I thought it was a really good choice to use like close close ups in that moment with like a bit of firelight highlighting the faces. another little detail I want to pick out and I really want to talk about the discussion between the dudes on the boat because that was really good but just a little visual detail. There's a great moment where Jesse is kind of interrogating Jacks when they're sitting across from each other on the boat and we get a little insert of Jacks's hands like

clenching in his fingers like picking at each other and stuff and just to get that as like B-roll and then to choose to included at that moment. That's the kind of thing that will really sell a moment's like psychology. I really like shots of hands being used to like sell a character psychology instead of just relying on faces only. I think that's like that's good like quality shot choices. I did there's a Japanese filmmaker I really like who's Hirokazu Khorai if anybody knows him, but he's really good. And I saw him speak once and he was. And he got a question from somebody that was like, why do you like always have shots of people's hands in your movies?

And he was like, well, I just think that people show a lot of their personality through their hands. And, you know, it's a mistake to think that people only show personality through their faces. In some ways, we control our faces more. And what your hands are doing is more unguarded than what your face is doing. And I thought that was just a great observation. So great Corrid-esque use of like a little hand shot there. Tiny detail. But I love those kind of things because it just adds like that much more.

depth and psychology into that moment right there. Yeah, totally. Jenna, how about you? Did anything stand out in terms of how this was presented to you? Yeah. So I think what stood out to me, I think was the way it was filmed. There were a lot of drone shots, which I thought was interesting. The house from the clouds, being able to see the house from the clouds. I think that spoke to kind of the power of the setting that they were in. Even as a group, when you look at that drone shot, it looks like very isolating. There aren't that many other houses around it.

And it sets the scene that, you know, even though there's a group of people and everything is taking place in that house, which you can see through the drone shot, it's still there's still like maybe a little like creepy feeling it's kind of like

a horror movie where you get that sense of isolation yeah like a slasher movie and Zach is the slasher apparently exactly yeah I love that they didn't totally lean into like a full blown

you know horror presentation but there were like you said there's definite notes of horror to this idea that Zach is lurking in the woods. You know, there's his post on a black background with the tag of being like somewhere nearby is like so menacing. And you've got a pregnant woman who is completely rattled by this and everyone is isolated and all their relationships are falling apart. And there's this specter of this, you know, this menace that could be lurking.

somewhere. I just really love that dynamic and how it added to the tension in in this episode. Yeah, that's such a, that's such a great call out. Yeah, it really is a good observation. And I used to do a podcast about horror movies called Mind Over Splatter, where we talk about slasher movies a lot. And we talk about exactly that, which I find so fascinating the way that these like park woodland areas at the like outskirts of civilization have such power as like, the places where you go to find freedom and find who your real self is and also confront the horror of life. And like just your,

your feeling of uncertainty about what anything actually is outside of your social bubble. And so I really love this setting. Since we've been to Big Bear, it's been great. It's been like visually appealing TV and the themes just seem that much deeper in that setting. Totally. In terms of what stood out to me for themes, I thought this episode was a really interesting exploration of, you know, the traditional gender roles and how these people and these couples are fitting into them and like where they're struggling to meet certain expectations associated with these roles. There's discussion about how these roles have evolved. And there's this common theme about miscommunication between all of these people and their partners and how the perspectives that they have inherited as a part, like from their societal gender roles is kind of forcing their modes of communication to not align with their partners.

I thought that that was really interesting. And I thought that the use of fire within this episode was fantastic. I love, like you mentioned, Dylan, they use it in order to force a sense of intimacy between Janet and Jason. There's also the scene around the fire with the men gathered around the fire. And we're having that, you know, that conversation about how they fit and how they, um, how they feel as like living up to the idea of what it means to be a man. And the use of fire as this like gathering point adds this like primitiveness to that. conversation. And, you know, I just loved that association. And I love how that got carried through to the discussion on the boat that you mentioned where they are so isolated. There's like nothing

around them. It's, you know, men basically on an island talking about how they feel isolated and on an island. I just thought that it was just such great visual communication on this episode about really bad communication between spouses. Yeah, totally. And, It's just such a great example of, like, their kind of masculinity. And it's really, like, it's funny to me. It's kind of sad, too. Like, just they have, they're very defensive. They're very, uh, they're sensitive, but they hate the idea of being called sensitive to.

And they're like, they need, they rely on each other's, like, support so much, but also want to project, uh, self-sufficiency. and that kind of like brittle tension and their like conception of masculinity makes for like really energetic TV for me. Like it's just like really dynamic when you have moments like Danny's starting to cry when he's obviously really drug.

It's like I'm an effing alpha was just like really funny. Just really good. Like I kind of feel for the guy and he's also just kind of being really ridiculous in that moment. And it's just yeah, we get a great study of like

like the way they see themselves in relation to this kind of like not very sustainable contradictory idea of masculinity that they've made such an important part of their characters. Totally. And Jason inviting them specifically so that he can get like boosted up to be like, am I going to be able to fulfill this new role and title that is so aligned with my masculinity? And you've got these guys who are like barely hanging on or like completely trying so hard like Danny is trying so hard

to live up to this idea and just feeling so defeated in it you've got like Jacks Taylor who is basically being like I am going to redefine what this means so that I am fulfilling it in the most toxic way possible and that's like how I'm going to achieve this

while still being a completely terrible like partner and husband and man we've got you know Jesse who's hanging on by a thread to his relationship and trying to like grasp with what that means for him and his ultra toxic idea of what it means to be a man and partner. Yeah. And all of Jesse's amazing.

Yeah. And all of Jesse's advice is just like everything sucks. Everything's terrible. And I love how Jesse even says like, you know, I think you guys came to the wrong person for advice and immediately Danny and Jacks are both like, yeah, totally. You're such the wrong person. why we were not asking you. Nobody was asking you for advice, Jesse. You just started offering it. It really feels like they are in hell. You brought up the fire imagery. And I think the name of the

episode is Baby Moon from hell, I believe. Which also what reminds me that Bravo likes to use the term from hell to signify like an episode where there's going to be a lot of drama. Dinner party from hell. I think the one, the dinner party in Amsterdam or Lisa Runa smashes the glass. I think that's something from hell as well. Baby mood from hell sounds like an amazing like 90s anime show. Exactly. Where the babies talk and adult voices.

But yeah. So I feel like you guys are, you're talking about the men in particular kind of discussing amongst themselves, the problems that they're going through. And it really feels like, um, like they're, they're in the underworld. They're in Hades. They, they feel like they're trapped in their lives. Um, and even though they're in this beautiful setting, there are fires everywhere. Yeah, totally. Uh, Let's talk about quotes. What was your favorite quote from this episode? I would say my favorite quote is Jesse saying they never do.

When Danny is talking about being appreciated by his wife, by Nia, and he says, you know, I do it all. It would be nice to be appreciated. And then Jesse says they never do. And I thought that was really. really interesting because again, the episode while they're all together was pretty siloed, the men and the women together. And yeah, I think that that kind of dynamic shows that the men really don't have a grasp on what the women have a grasp on,

which is kind of like life and the daily duties that they have. And the men don't seem to grasp that, really. Totally. And I love that it basically in the next breath after talking about how unappreciated, you know, he is as a result of his manhood. The next thing that he does is like shush, Janet,

when she comes out, just asking for some help, basically sends her back into the kitchen and like talks her like she's a dog. And it's like, okay, well, I kind of see, you know, someone else that is not being appreciated here in this scene. Certainly not you.

Let's talk about strategic decisions that are made here in terms of the use of information or how social situations are navigated. Jenna, did anything stand out to you in terms of the gameplay here? I would say I'm not sure if I have an opinion on the gameplay per se of the episode. I think that one of the strategies of the cast member that went very wrong, that goes wrong all the time, is Britney and her drinking. I think that she came in to this episode with a strategy that she would do quote unquote light drinking to, I guess, be a part of the party atmosphere and be a part of the group. But that obviously goes very, very wrong for her. So that that strategy of like maybe in her mind reining in the drinking, doing drinking an amount that is not excessive. that was a strategy that did not work for her.

Yeah, totally. Dylan, how about yourself? Just how bizarre Zach's strategy is of making that Instagram post? That's so weird. What a weird thing to do, man. Like, what the hell? I wrote on Zach is funny. Yeah, I thought that this was hilarious.

I thought what was most hilarious. Yeah. Yeah, I think what was most hilarious about, it was how like giddy they were and how they thought this was like this masterpiece of like shadiness that that they had executed and they were just like so happy and it's totally not a big deal. It's just like this, you know, you make, you shitposts one story and you're thinking that this is a masterpiece. Except they're right. It worked. It totally got to Janet.

She didn't get any sleep. It's ruining her entire baby moon. So, you know, maybe maybe they're right. It is kind of weird to be like, oh, you guys don't want to invite me, huh? Well, maybe I should ruin your lives by implying that I might show up to your event. That'll make you want to invite me. And that's also such a dody thing to do. She, Doty is always kind of like, I mean, it's a thing.

She's not invited to things in all of the shows that she is a part of. And it's like there's always that looming specter of Doty. Like she wasn't invited because she's crazy, but she's still crazy behind the scenes, like stirring some drama up to get back at you. Yeah. Totally. I think the main piece of like strategy that stood out to me this episode was how Jacks is handling this information with Michelle. You know, this has been a football that he's been like carrying. he's passed it a few times to people trying to get them to, you know, execute a playoff.

Carried up the field for him. Yeah. Yeah. And finally, he's like, I just have to run this myself. And so he sits down with Michelle and they have their conversation. It's like, whatever. He's finally like got this out there. And then he's like, so should we go and talk to Jesse? Are you just, you're going to take care of it? And she's like, no, I'm going to take care of it. And then he's like, should we go? Should we go together? Like he's like, really trying to make this this happen finally. And then she's like, no, I got it. She goes upstairs.

And I love that immediately. She starts talking to Jesse and, you know, being the completely shitty partner that he is, he doesn't want to listen to his wife or take her word for it. He immediately calls down to Jacks to get him to come up. And it's just like, I don't want to play telephone with, you know, this nobody,

his wife. I don't want to have to rely on her. I don't want to have to hear some random person's interpretation of events gesturing towards his wife. When Jesse screamed for Jacks, he was like, Jacks, instead of listening to Michelle, it really made me think of the office with, do I say, Michael? Just kind of like to get him in the room. He doesn't want to listen to Michelle. He wants to go straight to the top. Yeah.

Yeah, really funny too, how he doesn't like walk out of the room and like call it out to him over the staircase, just remains sitting, just starts hollering, just hollering his name. And the Jackson is so disappointed that Jesse's not more upset, you know, he wants to start a seat. He wants him to blow up at each other. And he's, he's so frustrated when Jesse's just like, whatever, who cares? That's all real estate works or something. I've also really, yeah, I don't know, I guess. I'm running the business. I'm really invested in a seesaw, though,

whether Michelle actually did anything or not, because it's been such like, it feels like it really changes for one episode to the next the read on it, like, whether she actually did anything that's cheating e or not. Like, at first it was like, oh, she's had a relationship with another guy for a year. And then it's like, oh, she was texting a guy.

And then it's like, oh, but she was sexting a guy. Oh, but she was setting pictures of herself wearing a dress to a guy. We need to go back and forth a few more times that they before we could start to figure out whether she actually did something wrong or not. Yeah, I wrote down, Michelle is lying, but it's okay. Yeah, probably. I think that Jesse is not the greatest partner. He's kind of a buffoon.

And so, like, you know what, Michelle, if you want to text somebody, I think remind me, are they in real life currently separated? I think so, yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's what I thought. It's probably for the best. I would hope so. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay, let's get into our highlights. Jenner, we'll start with you. What do you want to talk about from this episode? Let's see here. So I think, well, one of the big thing, going back to, like, the imagery and artistic themes throughout, we talked a little bit about it being a horror movie, just tamed. just taking it back to kind of like the horror of it all.

It was really, for me, reminiscent of The Shining. There is that isolating mountain house. And there's also somebody battling with alcoholism, in my opinion. So it is this setting that is creepy, and there's somebody like really battling with demons. I think they're all sort of battling with demons, but the alcohol really strikes a nerve with me. And I don't, I mean, I drink alcohol on an occasion.

But there's something really dark about Britney's situation to me that, and I like try to refrain from being judgmental, but there's this like darkness that comes with her drinking when she's saying, I'm not drunk. It's only one shot. It's like, well, if you know that one shot is going to do this to your body, like what are you struggling with? Is it Jack's making you drink this much? What is holding you on to that like one or two shots? Um, So the theme of like alcohol in there and like an isolated place and things are brewing and it can come to a head and there can be a very scary ending. That's that's kind of one of the things that came to mind for me as well. Totally. I think one of the things that they've done really well with the presentation of this trip is they did not really show us how much Brittany had to drink on. that boat ride. So it leaves the question up to the viewer to interpret what we're getting from everyone in the same way that Jacks has to do.

Like, is Brittany drunk or is she just sick? And I think that that isn't done intentionally because that's really not the most important question about this whole situation. Or that's not the most important information. Like there's so much information that we're getting just from the way that they talk to each other about alcohol and her past. like getting sick that you know whether or not she had you know too many shots today is not the important issue the the thing is that you know this is a pattern they have developed ways of talking about this like how brittany relates to alcohol how she relates to jacks about alcohol just all of their conversations and the pattern that we have been seeing about this um you know

this does not seem like something that is done just for for the show. This is, these do not sound like people that have only just started talking about alcohol as a problem in their relationship. They have, you know, they have the, um,

the vocabulary to talk about this. It's a very established vocabulary surrounding alcohol in their relationship. So whether or not she actually, you know, is drunk right now is not actually what's important in their relationship. It's that this is, this is a pattern. Yeah, absolutely.

Dylan, how about you? What are you up for highlights? Other than what we've already mentioned, I do like getting a little bit more of Jason in there. I'm starting to like him more and more. Like him being the straight-laced dweeb of the group. We got a great reference to that when he says something like, oh, I haven't even talked to a woman who's not my wife in four years.

And Jasmine's like, oh, somebody's looking to get vanilla missionary sex tonight. Really good stuff from her. Good luck. But also, like, when we have him on the boat, we finally get like his lawyery side coming out, I think. We've often had characters be like, oh, lawyer over here, lawyer alert. He's going to phrase this for me. He's going to find the right words because he's a lawyer.

But we've never really kind of seen that side from before. On the boat, we do actually finally get that from him when he's like correcting Danny about his misuse of the term Napoleon Culp. which I can relate. You don't need to correct about that. You understand what he's saying. But when somebody's misusing a common expression, you kind of got to get in there.

And he was right. He was like Jason was right. Daddy was misusing the expression. And him like just kind of analyzing what Jacks is saying and just kind of like calling attention to things like he's cross-examining him, you know, being like, oh, you just said like you just implied that loving your wife and getting divorced

from your wife are mutually exclusive things. They are not. or being like, oh, you just said two in that sentence, implying that you also have a bad relationship, like the way he's like seizing on specific things that are being said in a lawyerly way was a nice contribution to that like really tension-filled and dynamic scene.

So I'm like that we're seeing a little bit more of Jason's dorky personality coming out. I want to see some more of that. Yeah, I was wondering how he was going to like factor into this and definitely his role within that. scene and how he like played into it was the perfect use of his personality there because like you said just being so hung up on the semantics and like dissecting everything it really added a lot to the scene totally yeah um i think that we covered most of what i wanted to talk about with

this um let's get into our stars then jenna who who are your stars from this episode um Let's see here. I think that some of my stars, I mean, we talked about this briefly. He was in the episode The Least, but made a funny impact, Zach, with his tagging Big Bear, this small in the black screen. I thought he was, that was a star for me. I also really liked Jack's wearing and this has happened in the previous episodes

his own merch I think that always stands out to me the number one guy in the group sweatshirt he was wearing Janet made him that drowning in Big Bear Lake t-shirt he was wearing the other episode Britney I've seen her wearing her own merch

I don't know if there was rotten hill merge or, oh, she was wearing a t-shirt of the art that Jack Scott for his birthday roast. So that just stands out to me whenever. And it happens on, it's happened before in the Bravo universe where the Bravo Leopardy wears their own merch on TV. And I always think that's super interesting because it like, sort of breaks the fourth wall,

but also kind of displays their hubris a little bit. Totally. Speaking of what Brittany was wearing, I love that we saw her in this like California sweater, like big like California branded sweater. It just reminded me of like the tourist vibes that we got from Brock in San Francisco during the finale for Vanderpump Rules. And it's so like,

it is so. Brittany. I remember on old episodes of Vanderbump Rules when she first moved to L.A. and moved in with Jacks. All of their, all over their apartment, it had like signs for the beach and stuff like that. And it's like, they don't live

anywhere close to the beach, but they still have like a beach theme in their apartment. Really touristy. And I love how lame Brittany is in that way. And then there's also when she first gets on to the scene in season four,

I think one of her first scenes is she's wearing this big pink sweatshirt, thus is Kentucky across it. She's reping Kentucky. And so it's interesting now she's wearing a big California t-toucher. It says a lot about her journey. Yeah, totally. She's literally wearing signposts on her journey. From here to here.

Dylan, what are your stars here? Let's give a first star to Danny because I kind of feel like, he was the heart of that whole like study of, of awkward masculinity. He was, he was kind of pathetic, but kind of heartbreaking and kind of funny. And it was a,

it was an interesting showing from him. Second start of Jason for the reasons I just said. And let's give a third start of Janet for, for, for making some good burgers and then, and then blowing up on Jesse. That was, that's a good word from her,

too. Yeah, totally. I think those are good picks. I liked what we got from Danny, this drunk, emotional, you know, insecure guy. I really enjoyed that. We saw a lot more from Jason, so that's my pick. And I, again, have to give it to Jacks just by being the villain that we know he is and, you know, being his honest, true Jack's self. One thing that I forgot to mention that I just wanted to highlight, though, was Kristen's spa day.

I really love how little effort she went in putting this together. Like the cheapest foot bath things that she'd find on Amazon, like fresh out of the box. Totally like Chinatown $15 foot massage things. And I love how it was Doty's just. I was going to say Doty is like being relegated to secondary scenes. And the best she gets is a footbath. Totally. They couldn't find a sponsor for an actual spa where they could have this conversation.

They just ordered some stuff on Amazon Prime and did it. All right. Let's talk about Real Housewives of New Jersey. Jenna, do you want to give us a summary of what happened this episode? All right. So I think that this episode, the women were working on their friendships, I think, throughout the episode, both one-on-one and in group dynamics. And I think the puppy party shows one side of the story, while the baseball game shows there's more to the story.

And overall, I think what I just kept coming back to with this episode is that this is a set-up episode. It's laying the groundwork for the rest of the season. and the conflicts that are going to come up. Yeah, totally. Dylan, what did you think about the presentation of this episode? This was like, this was a good one for me. Just to preface my comments, like, I've been a little like slow getting into the season of Jersey. It hasn't really hooked me yet.

This one was like, yeah, that's that classic Jersey juice right there that we got going on. But the fact that it ends with the charity. baseball game. I love that. I love it. And aesthetically, it's amazing. It's beautiful. I love them being in a stadium with a bunch of cheering fans. I love having a scorebug on the screen. Oh, yeah. Tracking the game as if we're actually watching a game because we are. And I love the bright red uniforms. I love that they have the space that they can roam around and form these little clicks and how they can really just interact with each other in different mixing groups. well wearing their little uniforms.

It's like such like school yard vibes. It's just very aesthetically pleasing to me to have all this, these various storylines playing out in this setting. Lots of little random moments. Frank just going into the crowd to do some audience work for some reason, just because he wants to. Bill Aiden just being like a puppy and immediately one to be friends with everybody who looks at him and.

miles. Well, Jen gets pissed off at him for like not showing loyalty. It's just like, yeah, Marguerite increasingly sabotaging yourself by getting furious. It's just such a great visual for all this to play out. And I love every second of the charity baseball match. Oh, yeah, totally. Love, love that as well. One thing that I also loved about how this was presented visually was the entrance that we got for Margaret this episode rolling up on the motorcycle to this diner I just love this like tortured rebel like persona that she had you know we we see an angry Margaret this season and we're getting the like emotional vulnerability underneath that while she's you know at the side of the road on a motorcycle it's just I just

love that as a as a trope and you know what what that brought to the table so yeah I and totally agree with everything with the baseball game that's always so much fun and I hope that they never stop doing that that's something I look forward to on Jersey now the burgers look really good I thought too actually those look like tasty burgers in the Margaret scene just and that was a great too I love Margaret getting emotional I do feel for her which I don't always do

obviously it's a very emotional moment for her I like having her wipe her tears with a greasy brown paper diner napkin. And it is sad, but it's also kind of an absurd moment. And the saddest things are often slightly absurd too. And I like Joe coming over to her and I'm ending the scene with Margaret being like, don't worry when you die, I'm going to cry this much too. And then Joe being like, my grandma says I'm the devil and I'll never die. What a way to end it.

It's really fun. Yeah, totally. And that's like right after this emotional moment where he's like, you know, I feel horrible for you. I hate seeing you this sad, but I cannot remove your sadness. And it's just like, you know, these people are not the most like, they don't have the most flowery poetic language in a traditional sense. But they are so great with their words and they are such great communicators in a way. that you wouldn't necessarily immediately think of as sort of being classically poetic. I love it.

Jenna, anything stand out to you in terms of how this was presented? I think, so some of the devices I would say that stuck out to me, there's a lot of quick cuts this episode. It's like it's trying to get every single perspective in. and I think there's like two scenes that kind of are a little bit longer. There's Jennifer Aden's puppy party. They have a conversation that lasts for a while. The baseball game lasts for a while.

But other than that, it felt like throughout the episode is just quick cut here, a little snippet of a conversation here than the next conversation. There was a lot of back and forth, and it was showing kind of what the women talk about when they're with their partners. And then with the longer scenes, we see what they talk about when they're together. Yeah, totally. Let's get to our quotes. What was your standout quote from this episode?

Let's see. I have a couple of, I loved, so just going down my notes. So the new character that I don't know anything about Lauren, that's her name, I believe. I loved when she was sitting down with Jen Fester, a new cast member to me. And she said, she was crying and she said, my eyes are like friggin' faucets. And I was like, that's amazing. Rachel, Rachel, why do I say Lauren?

My eyes are like frigging faucets. Yeah. And not to be like too much of adjacent here, but I like cannot help but police people's metaphors. when she says that I'm just like, you actually can stop Fossets. She's like, yeah, I can't stop crying. Fossets get famously being stopped. That's their entire function.

Exactly. I also really liked Joe Gorga, who's one of my favorite house husbands. He said, we're Italian. We don't let go. When, what's her name, the daughter?

Antonia. Antonio, going out to college. I'm like, they're just an undifferentiated mass to me. I know, with the four,

the four daughters. I always forget daughters. So, yeah, so that, we're telling we don't let go. I love that one. I think that,

like, says a lot about the franchise that we're in. It kind of like brings you back to like, oh, we're in New Jersey. These are the big Italian

families. We're telling we don't let go. It's like, what other franchise would you hear that sentence on? And then personally, I am of Italian heritage that resonated with me. I feel the same way about my family. So I love that. Totally.

I want to get into our strategy. I feel like there's a lot to discuss in terms of strategy this episode. Jenna, we'll start with you. What stood out to you in terms of the gameplay here? So even though Jen Fessler is a new cast member to me, I think that at least once, maybe twice, she brought up the Teresa and Joe drama. I think that she's definitely trying to pry open this drama that is not really there yet. That's kind of like brewing under the surface. We know it's coming.

We know the background of Tree and Joe and their tumultuous relationship. But I thought that was a strategy to kind of open the conversation. And there's there's even a point where Gia kind of like shuts it down immediately when she brings up the Joe Tree drama. But I think they're really trying to set the stage for what comes next. Yeah, totally. Dylan, how about you? Yeah, there's so much setting of the stage.

Like we've had four episodes of setting of the stage and you, I get it. Like, it's just gotten so complex and so labyrinth and all these connections between the characters that it's taking so much time for just like random small shifts in alliances to like resonate throughout all these networks of alliances. It's like Europe before World War I or something. It's like two, it's so complex. It's almost too much.

So I feel like we have like so much just setting up the stage. I do think it was another kind of surprising emotion-based misplay for Margaret to go into Jackie so hard in the dressing room after we kind of saw her really push away Jen Fessler, who's been such an ally to her in the previous season because of like a perceived lack of fidelity to her side and to just like when Jackie's position seemed to be somewhat. softening towards Margaret and like and Jackie would seem to be more like anti-Daniel than anything for Margaret to just really turn the temperature up and like really make Jackie an enemy just felt like another instance of Margaret pushing away anybody

who could potentially be an ally of her seemingly just based on getting emotional and rather than when I expect her to be more of a strategic player I guess is what I mean like I expect more like more thoughtful consider strategy for Margaret. And maybe there is like a 4D chest that I'm not perceiving yet. God knows that

happens in Jersey. There is. I think there is. I cracked it. Now Craig's ready to to give me a theory. Let's go. Come on. Let's go. Come on. Let it on me. Okay. So I watched this episode twice. And like you, I was like, what the fuck, Margaret? You're way smarter than this to be like seemingly pushing away these people that are closely aligned with you when there's potentially this battle between, you know, yourself and the tree. Lisa, camp, brewing. Why are you pushing members over to that side? And when I was watching it the second time, like, especially this conversation that she has with Jackie, where she's going into her about this book, which is like the biggest,

like nothing. It makes total sense that she wouldn't get a copy because Jackie just sent out press copies, whatever. The fact that she's latching on to this and pushing people, she's not necessarily pushing people to Teresa's side. Like that's not the goal. it's happening, and that's like she's fine with that. But they, it's very clear that Margaret and, um, and Melissa are trying to orchestrate,

uh, an actual like freeze out of Teresa. They want her off off the show, but they can't do that because Teresa is like the number one, like point of conflict for everyone. So she's actually trying to shuffle the deck so that there is another side. that the show can continue it without Teresa so that there is enough there to sustain a post-Tresa world. So that's why she's pushing Fessler away. That's why she's pushing Jackie away. That's why everyone on that side is for like no reason being like, oh, we're in a pretty good place with Jen Aiden right now,

trying to create a social environment that can exist with enough drama. without Teresa there. I think that this is a 4D chess move to be able to create an environment where that doesn't need Teresa in order to sustain it for the sake of conflict. I really think that this is actually Margaret being super smart and being like, no, we can't just like ice her out because that's going to be the main conflict. That's why she has to establish, you know, all these different nuanced relationships that, you know, are independent of of Teresa for for the conflict so I think that that's actually what's going on I

think that Margaret is way too smart to just you know completely push away allies if she sees an actual battle with Teresa I think she's trying to create an environment that can sustain itself without Teresa and that's that's her big brain play that's that's my my theory at Okay, I think I can see your vision. Yeah. So her idea is not to make Teresa the number one villain, but on the contrary, to neutralize Teresa's importance to the show by removing her strength as a villain. Yeah, totally.

I was going to say, well, kind of separately, I feel like, and maybe this is because I've missed some of the past seasons, but I feel like without Teresa, I don't know if I would be as into the show. I like I love Trey. I think she's great and we saw I mean it harkens back to her stint in prison like she was gone for a full

season. We saw what it would be like without Teresa and it wasn't excellent. I mean it was I think I forget what season it was it was like five or six but like we saw

world without Teresa. And I think that the show, I don't know what it would be like without her. It would feel like a whole new franchise, I think. Yeah. And I think that's true. I, I struggle to imagine a world without Teresa, but I think that this is, you know, what this is the sort of terraforming that she's trying to do. She's trying to create a world that could exist without Teresa. I show where Teresa is not not essential. And yeah, it's a huge task. But I really feel like that's what she's trying

to do because at the end of last season, it really seemed like either Teresa or Melissa was going to be gone. But they're both back. But they don't, they don't interact. They don't talk at all. That's not sustainable.

I think everyone with like a half a brain, which is this cast, can see that. And so I think that this is Margaret being like, okay, if one of them is going to go based on the situation as it stands right now, it would probably be Melissa because it's pretty easy to picture this show without Melissa for myself. but I think that figuring out what the show was going to be without Teresa at this point in time, like all the information that we have up until this past episode, it's hard for me to picture what that show would look like without Teresa. And that's why I think Margaret is trying to rearrange things where it's like, okay, I could see how there would be conflict and relationships with all these people

and how they would fire back and forth if it wasn't about Teresa. And honestly, like, I think that even if like Teresa were to go, the season immediately following it would still be a lot about Teresa. I think that there's no way around that. And I'm sure that Margaret sees that as well. But this feels like a long play. And if there's anyone that could execute something like this, I think Margaret can do it because I think she's like very smart. Yeah. And so what in just your opinion, when she's like, she's angling to.

have a show without Teresa. Is she strategy, is her strategy towards the producers or towards the viewers? And in that she would make this point

that Teresa is no longer needed on the show. Like who makes that decision? Yeah. I think it's for like it's a show producers. I think a segment of the viewers as well. I don't think that she is going to win any, like, fans, like die hard, Teresa fans,

die hard Melissa fans. Those people aren't, like, going anywhere. Those are, like, staying firmly divided in the camps. They are. But in order to lose Teresa, I think you need to make a case to production that, so that they can see the potential for storylines out, like, without her there. Like, they need to be able to see that. that, you know, they could have a functional season without her there.

Because the only other way that this like continues on if we're going to just see this, this cold war between Teresa and Melissa and no interaction is like a full like flush, shuffle the deck reboot like we saw with Real Housewives of New York, I think. Because we can't like, we can't sustain a season on Rachel's arthritis flaring up. Like that's not a sustainable story. in my opinion at least anyone have anything else in terms of strategy they want to talk about before we go into highlights

none in terms of strategy now yeah let's dive into our highlights Jenna we'll start with you I have a bunch of highlights but like right off the top with taglines I love Dolores's tagline from Patterson acting like Switzerland, dating an Irishman.

I thought that was really funny. I thought it was a great tagline. I love Dolores. It kind of feels like she might now be the top player of the episode. So I'm getting a sense that

she's kind of like the top dog now. She, is she's setting up the baseball game she's kind of like the first person on the show the first like scene is with her

I think that it's really setting up Dolores to be the top person and I just I love that tagline I think she's also the first person to give her tagline but that that really

stuck out to me that tagline in particular suck out to me. Yeah. That's one that actually didn't rate too highly when we, like, we're doing our tagline reading and rating. I think that she delivers it a lot better than I did when I was reading, reading them out. Yeah, I love what Dolores brings to this show. And what she brings is Frank and Polly and a lot more, but I specifically love those pieces. I also really liked that.

So I have a couple of other things, but the one thing that like most pops out to me was drama, the idea of like drama at a charity event. And that also, that harkens back to Danielle Stubb, who I think, you know, kind of always is, her ghost is lurking in the shadows of this show. Joe. Like, she set the stage in so many ways.

And the, it just reminds me of the classic, um, season two episode where they go to a benefit. I, this, a child has cancer. There's a childhood cancer, um, a family dealing with that. And Danielle shows up with a bunch of Hells Angels, um, demanding, demanding a take. table. So the theme of like drama at charity events is so specific to Jersey that I, I love that it came up in this episode. Totally. Dylan, how about you? Okay, my favorite part of the episode by far is also Dolores related. I love the part where Dolores just names every one of her fucked up dogs and just we just get a montage of her just, saying the name of each of this endless lineup of weird dogs she has.

And every dog's name is just a word. So just a lineup of showing mugshots of dogs while she says like chicken, leg, door, shame, cat. Oh, what's the name of the one with like the crooked head? And like, what the heck? What do you mean it as a dog? And then you see this like Picasso ass dog. You're like, oh, yeah, dog with a crooked head.

And then she just keeps going, like, toaster, liver. It just goes on and on. It's so fucking weird. And I love it. Like, I love the idea that Dolores is just regularly going to the dog shelter and just be like, got any fresh ones? Give me your fucked up dogs. And they're just being like, are you just going to.

Yeah, Dolores, are you just going to name them random words again? I'm paying good money for these dogs. I'll do what I want with him. And just down in the parking lot, unloading the dogs. and the staff at the shelter. They're just crying while she's like, and you'll be shoe, sky,

love. It's just, it was just really funny to me. I just loved her litany of dogs. I wanted to go on forever, and it kind of did. Yeah. Yeah.

And speak of the dogs that we saw, hers seemed like the only one that was actually, like seemed like, was a rescue. All the rest of them look like identical dogs could be from the exact same breed. None of them had crooked heads at all. Yeah. Then there's like lady in there just live in her best life in her whatever that costume was that she was wearing. Yeah. Love that. Yeah. I also love that Jen Aiden gets the host that show because Jen's at her best when she's just being a ham and she gets to be such a ham doing the dog show. I guess both gens are hams, but Fessler is like,

a stand-up comic vibes ham where Jen Aiden's like a drag queen kind of ham and uh that's when she's at her best yeah totally yeah they they would make a great like comic duo if they were to do a sort of like cabaret style thing like Luann does I would yeah I would see that Vegas show if like Jen Aiden and Jen Fessler both came out like smoking cigars and just rift that would be that amazing Make it happen, Andy. We know you're listening. Any other highlights there, Dylan? Yeah, that about covers it, I think.

Yeah, I think we talked about most of the things that I really liked. I think that this was, in terms of the charity baseball games that we have seen, we didn't get the story of the game as much as we have in other seasons. Um, you know, usually they're able to use that for a bit more attention. So I would have liked to see, you know, that be amped up a little bit and, you know, get us invested a bit more and, you know, them pulling off the win. But at least we got to see what seemed like the winning run scored by God's chosen child, Louis, uh, you know, uh, RBI single. Yeah, you truly can't you. Yeah. The magic man himself.

Mr. October. But yeah, overall, I like this episode. There is a lot. One thing that we hadn't really talked about is Danielle going to New York Fashion Week with boozy kids, which is so surprising to me. I don't really understand what bougie kids is as a brand identity. It's kind of all over the place. this idea of like bougie kids versus at least the branding that we see in her opening where it's like written in like graffiti street art like bougie kids it just does not align i don't see what

she's going for and from what i understand new york fashion week is a pretty big deal at least they make it seem that way on project runway when i watch um so yeah i just don't understand what's what's going on there but the thing that stood out to me from this scene was just how hurt Danielle seems by this rejection that she perceives from her family and how she tries to like cover that up and put up this like steely front. I really like this as a piece of showing her her vulnerability and just how she navigates that situation. I really thought that that added a lot of texture to kind of the evolution that we're

seeing of Danielle. Yeah, for sure. Any other highlights? Jenna, did we go through your highlights here? I think I have two more. One is I recently thrifted a jersey, a big red jersey that says Housewives All-Stars on them. And I'm like, I really, really hope it's an authentic played with the Housewives Jersey or at least somebody that attended the game that maybe got a jersey.

So I love that for me. That's, it's, uh, it looks exactly like the jerseys that they were playing with. Oh, that's amazing. I've got a birthday in a couple weeks, by the way. If you were, I'll pay, I'll pay postage. Um, and then the last thing that, one of the last thing is that happens in the episode, that made me wondering again, I'm not super familiar

with all of these new cast members, but Louis at the end, they make it seem like Louis won the game with this last hit. And I'm wondering if what does that set him up for the rest of the season, does that make him

a winner all the time? Or does that mean he'll possibly lose coming up? I think it symbolized kind of like what Louis is to tree in this time. He's kind of like her hero and, you know, can hit homers and do what she needs him to do. But, you know, what is, can he keep up that stamina of being a winner throughout the season? Yeah, I hope so. Love that weird, weird freak.

He has been pretty tri-up. And so far. this season. So I'm interested to see where the Louis story art goes because last season it was all over the place. He was just such a bizarre presence in this cast. And he seems to be like very almost doing a victory lap so far at the start of this season. So so really interested to see like you say if that like winning the game with a home run or not a home run but whatever the hell was, winning the game. I don't watch baseball. Doing the thing is like the kind of vibes

that we're going to go forward with Louis as like actually vindicated heroic figure which would be really funny actually. Yeah. Oh, one other highlight that I just thought of was during that dog

that dog birthday party dinner. The edit that they gave to Teresa trying to land that joke about Margaret being a dog was just so funny how they just made it like fall so flat on its face. Oh yeah. They just underscored so much how but she bombed on that joke and you know she thought she was cooking with that too. She was like she had that ready way in advance. She was like this is got a this is going to blow their mind. This is going to be such an amazing moment. And they're all like, oh shit, I don't want to acted that. What the hell, man? Why would you say that? And yeah, the way that the editors just

really underscore that with so much like B-roll of dogs trying to like scratch at doors and get out of there was so good. I love how much he bombed on that joke. They just move on from it with no comment. Yeah. I was wondering how much that was like true to life. Like did the joke really fall flat or were editors trying to like make a point about tree this season? I think like if it was

early seasons and she made a joke about I mean I think she did in like season one or two like somebody you know being a dog I yeah so I just I kind of think that

I don't know So if it was an earlier season, I feel like that joke would have come with like some more maybe ominous music. Maybe not falling as flat. There was something about the way it was edited where I was like, it's making some kind of point. Yeah, totally. The other thing I wanted to bring up about that dinner was the presence of Gia. Whenever she shows up, I know that this is like a contentious issue amongst the fan base. but I love it when Gia shows up and gets like the like the friend of treatment.

I think that she would make a fantastic housewife. And I think like adding, you know, a second generation into the cast. Just this, this franchise especially already has so much family drama. It would just add additional complexity and layers to it. I would love to see it. So really happy to see Gia there. And I understand. white people don't want to see her. Can you imagine how much mini Teresa power she would have if she

was like actually smart? Like she'd be on an unstoppable force. We are pretty close to a point where we could have like a real housewives of New Jersey the next generation. Like we could have like the young housewives that are just their children. Like we there's enough of them that are getting old enough that you could do like a next generation show. Yeah. can actually be family. Yeah. Like the next generation. I think if any franchise were to pass along the show to the children of the current cast members,

I think that's Jersey, it has to be Jersey. Totally. The family show. It's all about family. Yeah. Yeah. Family. Let's get into our stars.

Jenna. Who are your stars? Let's see here. I think I already talked about, you know, Dolores being maybe a star of the show. I just see her. I think it's such an interesting way to add her to the, as a main cast member now,

I feel like she's really shining. And I just find her really endearing. And let's see what else. Just going back to Gia a little bit, it's just always so shocking to me as somebody who watched the earlier seasons over and over. She's so old now. Yeah. It makes me, you know, face my own mortality that Gia, this little girl is now, I think

she's a college graduate, right? Yeah. Yeah. I just graduate even. Wow. I think so. I think so, yeah. think so, which is crazy.

So Dolores and in Gia, I think, even though they, you know, didn't give, you know, quippy one-liners or really bring that much drama to the show, they stuck out at me as a fan of the show, seeing how things change. Totally. Dylan, how about yourself? Yeah, you know what? I'll give a first start of Dolores, too, because of the parade of, messed up dogs because it's her charity baseball match too, which was the other highlight of the

episode. So shortly, yeah, let's give a, let's give Dolores the first star. Maybe a second start at Jen Fessler, who I, who's been starting good this season, like showing backbone standing up for herself. She was good in the conversation with Rachel or Rachel right away. It's like, okay, I'm just going to cry through this whole thing just to let you know. And Jen Fessler's kind of like, but why, though? Do you need to? So I thought that was a good showing from her. The third star to the dog with a crooked head. I don't know if we ever alert his name.

But you know it was a shitty name of an object. I want to give my first start to Margaret. Now that I see everything with a clear head, I can see her commanding the pieces. I don't think it's going to work. but I appreciate her trying. I love that. I want to give a star to Jan Aden for putting on the dog birthday

and doing a spot on Danielle impression. I love that when she pulls out an impression. So yeah, great to see her. And yeah, maybe final star to Rachel's arthritis. Really keeping Rachel in the game by keeping her out of the game. So that's that's my stars. How about Rachel's new confessional luck with? I just feel like that that rose isn't big enough.

You know, we can we can still see her. It's just it's almost almost there. Yeah, thanks. Thanks so much for doing this, Jenna. This has been a total blast. You want to let our audience know where they can find you? Yeah. So I am on TikTok.

My username is D-D-D-D-M-D-O-E. It's D-I-D-I-M-Y-D-O-E. And because that username was already in use on Instagram, my handle for Instagram is D-D-D-D-D-I-D-O-U-T-E, in honor of my Queen, Kristen Doty. So that's where you can find me. Awesome. Dylan, how about yourself? I'm on substack as Dylan Ferguson occasionally writing about movies.

And I mentioned my old horror movie podcast, Mind Over Splatter. So look that up if you want to hear me talking about. about horror movies. Awesome. I'm Craig Midwinter. You can just find me at Bravo Outsider on Instagram and TikTok. Check us out at our website, Bravo Outsider.com. We post our episode. Sometimes we post VR versions of them. You can listen on your podcast app of choice or on YouTube. Be sure to like and subscribe. Tell your friends, that's the best way to get the message out about us. Until next week, keep on Wi-Fei.