Oscars Outsider - RHONJ S14E06 & RHODubai S02E02 Recap/Analysis (feat That's My Opinion podcast ) | Bravo Outsider Podcast

Episode Date: June 18, 2024

This week, Dylan and Craig are joined by Vero Iglesias of the That's My Opinion Podcast! We're revisiting the theory behind Margaret Joseph's 4D chess move to ice out Teresa. The episodes of Real Housewives of New Jersey and Real Housewives of Dubai that we got this week are loaded with symbols and we're diving in to all of them! If you enjoyed this breakdown, don’t forget to hit the like button, comment below your favorite moment, and subscribe for more Bravo content! 🥂 About Bravo Outsider The Bravo Outsider Podcast offers an outside perspective on Bravo shows like The Real Housewives, unlike any other Bravo podcast! We focus on the artistic value of these shows while providing strategic analysis of the social game at the core of the Bravo docu-soap. We love thick literary references and diving into themes before diving into the drama! 📖 Chapters: 00:00 - Margaret Joseph's 4D Chess move 01:02 - Intro 03:05 - Real Housewives of Dubai Recap/Analysis 26:34 - Leave us a mean comment 27:04 - Real Housewives of New Jersey Recap/Analysis 53:54 - Call us slobs 🍸Featured Bravolebs: Real Housewives of New Jersey: Teresa Giudice, Melissa Gorga, Dolores Catania, Margaret Josephs, Jen Aydin, Danielle Cabral, Rachel Fuda, Jackie Goldschneider, Frank Catania, Gia Giudice, Joe Gorga, Milania Giudice, Luis Ruelas, Bill Ayden, Jen Fessler Real Housewives of Dubai: Sara Al Madani, Chanel Ayan, Caroline Brooks, Lesa Milan, Caroline Stanbury, Taleen Marie 📣 Stay Connected: Find That's My Opinion on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1wg2O0mKh2XxE5pow9lpdM?si=NXD_l8idSdulLOI114_0kA Find Dylan Ferguson on Substack at https://dylanferguson.substack.com/ Find Bravo Outsider on Instagram at ⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/bravooutsider https://www.bravooutsider.com 📖 Credits Music by FASSounds from Pixabay #vanderpumprules #bravo #realitytv #thevalley #RHONJ #RealHousewives #vanderpumprules #scandoval #pumprules #rhodubai

Previously on Bravo Outsider. I was like, what the fuck, Margaret? You're way smarter than this. I'm the first one who knew about your book. Why are you pushing members over to that side? She's not necessarily pushing people to Teresa's side. Margaret and Melissa are trying to orchestrate an actual freezeout of Teresa. They want her off the show, but they can't do that because Teresa is the number one point of

conflict for everyone. So she's actually trying to shuffle the deck so that there is a, another side and that the show can continue it without Teresa so that there is enough there to sustain a post-Tresa world. So that's why she's pushing Fessler away. That's why she's pushing Jackie away. That's why everyone on that side is for like no reason being like we're in a pretty good place with Jen Aden right now.

I think that this is a 4D chess move to be able to create an environment that doesn't need Teresa in order to sustain it for the sake of conflict. Hello and welcome to the Bravo Outsider Podcast. I'm your host Craig Midwinter, joined as always by Dylan Ferguson. We have an awesome show today because we're talking Real Housewives of New Jersey, real housewives of Dubai, and it is packed with symbolism, in my opinion. So we're going to talk symbols. We're going to talk strategy.

And we are going to change some lives today. Dylan, how's it going? Well, after that incredibly enthusiastic intro, I am happy to let everybody know that I'm hung over and feel like shit. And I'm going to just give you the worst show you've ever heard in your life. The birthday boy is feeling a little dusty. Is that right? Yeah. Yep.

Yeah. Well, we are very excited to be joined by Barro Iglesias, the host of the That's My Opinion podcast. Speak your mind and carry a good handbag. Catherine Edwards. Catherine Edwards, who's brought nothing that exciting to Beverly Hills. But you know what? I love the simplicity of it. And it was one of those taglines that I read and I go, you know what?

Yes. There's nothing that I can disagree in that tagline. So I went for it. Do you want to tell our listeners a little bit about your podcast? Yeah. So that's my opinion podcast. is a podcast by basically recap everything that aired on Bravo that week, or at least more of the interesting episodes.

It depends the week. And I like to have guests on at least every week. Sometimes I do solo episodes. And we, everyone just gets an opportunity and a platform to share their opinion on what they thought. I love creating an environment where we agree to disagree. I love saying, you know, a few hot takes here and there and just being unapologetic about what you think and feel. and creating that type of environment.

So yeah, I do that every week. Awesome. Well, I'm excited to get into the shows that we're going to discuss this week. Were either of these more exciting to you? Do you have a preference as to where we start? You know what, Dubai. Dubai I loved. I'm really enjoying it.

Let's get into Dubai then. Do you want to just summarize the events of this episode from your perspective? Yeah. So you basically, it starts off with setting the scene of the two different groups. So we have a lunch happening between Caroline Stamberry, Lisa Milan, and Chanel Ion, which I'm sure last season we would have never imagined those three together at lunch. And then parallel, we have Tallinn, Caroline Brooks, and Sarah together. So we're kind of getting the dynamics being set up.

And they're all kind of talking shit about each other. And then we do get to know Teline a lot more. We get brought into her house a lot. And we're seeing her dynamic with Caroline Brooks. And then we end the episode at Teline's house at this amazing party. And you see this weird situation between Caroline Sandbury and Caroline Brooks kind of come to a head. And I think the confusion within the cast members and the viewers is trying to like pan itself out at this event. So, yeah, that was kind of what the episode was to me.

Awesome. What did you think of the artistic presentation? So I think one of the themes that kind of stood out to me was just this concept of who were taking seriously in the show and who were not. The professionals and the glam, right? And to me, where it really stuck out was in the scene that Chanel Aion and Sarah went to lunch. And there was so much to be said about not only the conflict that they're having, but also the way I think the producers and the editors are trying to present these two people to us and the conflict that they're in.

I just thought that lunch had so much to dissect. You obviously then have the letter. You have her coming in with the crystal of the angel. There's a lot going on there. Yeah, totally. I and you brought up the you know the the the letter I love the like how tokens are kind of this running theme within Dubai right now and like we got in the first episode we got AAN showing up with like a pineapple and you know that was was her gift and then now she has received an angel and like that is what is going to represent her and I love how we got a little bit of a call back to the pineapple at the lunch between Carolyn Stanberry and. and Lisa and Iyan where I and she orders the pineapple and says, I really like pineapple now.

Like she's kind of expressing how she has changed her tune on Carolyn Stanbury. So I really love that as well. Dylan, how about you? Yeah, I really like the letter too. I just think it's really funny and cute the way that she writes out a letter, not to like send to her or even give to her, but just to unfold and recite out loud. I just really like that gesture from my ad.

I find it really funny and cute. And it's like it's kind of like a weirdly self-important thing to do, but also kind of like an adorably thoughtful thing to do. Yeah. Just to be to prepare her words, but also to have like a prop with her is really great too. And you know, of course she could be an author. And she could also be.

a prophet and leader of the world, according to I. Ann. So the fact that she's taking time out of her schedule to read a letter and was kind of a cute moment for me, I guess. One of my favorite parts about the letter was she wrote, now I'm ready to turn the page with you. And the letter was just a one-page letter. And I loved that kind of like symbolism of how much is this conflict real, how much you guys just trying to like hype it up. I thought that was funny. Yeah, totally. I really loved how much she loaded this letter with meaning more, more than just like her words, but she prefaces it by being like the only other letter that I've written was to my husband saying why you should marry me. And this is like so meaningful for me to do this for you.

I just thought that that was a really smart way of using like symbolism as strategy, which is something that I think we see in the New Jersey episode that we're talking about. I think that's something that is like core to that episode. But to see that done here, it really kind of shows the function that I think that reality stars have as, you know, as artists within this medium. Like they function. They're as much painters as the producers or editors are. They're able to load these symbols with meaning and put them on screen and insert them into the narrative in ways that are, you know, impactful to both the story as well as to us as an audience as we interpret it. So, yeah, I really love that.

That's a great point. Yeah. So much of what they're doing is left to the mercy of the editors after. But like you say, these are the kind of things that you can do in the moment that cannot be. altered afterwards. I have this item. I have this totem. I have this letter that you can literally see on camera that I'm literally reading. These are concrete things that can't be altered by the editors in post. Well, also another moment of a token was when Chanel Aon brought that re-gifted Christmas candle to Teline's house. And I thought that was such an interesting moment because you see

Chanel Ion talk about Teline early in the episode and doesn't seem to be a big fan of hers necessarily doesn't seem to be taking her very seriously. And then she shows up in this beautiful outfit as per usual and gives her this re-gifted candle, which I think in any other franchise, particularly Beverly Hills, OC, New York, that would be such a drama of you're coming into my household and you're giving me this shitty candle when we all know you could have brought champagne. And it does show the candle, like how Chanel thinks of Tilleen, how seriously she's taking her, that kind of moment, I thought was interesting. Yeah, totally.

And were there any quotes that stood out to you as particularly memorable? So there was a point at Teline's party where Teline says, check please. And she says it twice. And I loved it because I love getting to know her. I think she's been such a fun housewife and she's going to be great. And I think it really spoke to who she is as a housewife that she's willing to get involved in drama, but she's not taking it that seriously. Mm-hmm. Like she's bringing light and fun to it.

So I loved it. Totally. I think one of the things that's been really interesting about watching her specifically has been, it has showed the various, like other housewives on the cast. Like we've learned a lot about them based on how they are receiving her as the first newcomer on, on this. series. I think, you know, what has been really evident to me is that Carolyn Stanbury, you know, obviously she's a veteran. This is not her first rodeo. She has been one who has been at the forefront kind of like poking to lean to see what her like triggers are and how she handles like the the jesting. And I think that she has navigated this really well, even though she

started with like kind of an oppositional um stance towards to lean and she has like you know brought a very small conflict something that would obviously be easy to like just get over and put that out there just to test the waters to see how she operates and um get a sense of like how this new cast member is going to play the game and i think that that is you know just such a a smart way to to start things strategically. And she is really, you know, I think the confrontation that we got at the end between Brooks and Stanbury where, you know, Brooks was saying, you know, like bringing up everything and that she calls to lean over.

And I think that really gave Stanbury so much information. And it seemed like she was able to put that conflict to bed with Talene. But it's still this big deal with Brooks. And I think that, you know, Stanbury has come out way ahead on this because she knows how someone operates. She's got a new, like, beef that really, like, is not a big deal with Brooks, but it's, like, seemingly really triggering her. And, yeah, she's just got this, like, huge playing field that she can now manipulate. And she's basically on top of every sort of dynamic as a result of just, you know, testing the waters here. In my opinion, at least, I'm wondering if you guys saw anything specifically,

within the strategy of this episode that stood up to you? I would say with Caroline Brooks, I'm just very confused by her. So I don't know what she's trying to do in the sense of it seems like she wants to lean for herself. She kind of wants to keep her best friend, her best friend. And for whatever reason, unbeknownst to the viewers, I think, she doesn't want her getting close to Canline Stanbury. She sees her as a threat of some sort, which I think is interesting because then we get this background information that they talk on the phone every morning or they actually have a deep friendship, it seems. So I'm wondering what she's doing by creating that tension and coming at it very aggressively. Like she cannot control herself, calls her every bad name in the book to try to make Tallene not like her.

and I'm just, I'm confused by it all. I'm very confused by it. Yeah, totally. It seems almost self-destructive, not like in the sense of like you're destroying your life personally, but within the context of the show, like she is just burning everything she touches. And yeah, very, very confusing.

Dylan, what about you? Anything stand out to you? Yeah, I think it kind of makes some sense from Carolyn Brooks's perspective to start a beef because it's what you've got to do, but start a beef by acting like you're defending your friend too and that you don't have to pretend that it's personal to you. And it also reinforces your allyship with the newcomer to be like,

oh, I'm just doing this on behalf of somebody else. Now, we're two people in a team against you. I don't know where she's going to go for it, but I think it's kind of a smart move to start a beef on behalf of somebody else instead of yourself or at least pretend that's what you're doing. Yeah, totally. I think one thing that we saw at the beginning of this episode was when we got, like you, you'd mentioned, we have Stanbury, Anne, and Lisa all together at a lunch at the beginning.

And that is played directly against the scene of like Sarah, Carolyn Brooks and Tallinn at a lunch. And it just seems like there's so much more power that is, focus at the table between Chanel I.N. and Carolyn Sanbury and Lisa versus like, you know, Sarah, Carolyn Brooks and Tallinn, they just feel like it's like, oh, we're just together because we're like not with the other side. Like we're just like thrown together.

We have to like see what we can do with what we've got here. Whereas, you know, it felt much more like a power lunch between Stanbury and. and Lisa. Let's talk highlights. Dylan, let's start with your highlights. What were your highlights here? I'm still having a hard time sticking my teeth into the show, to be honest.

I didn't watch the first season, so it might take me a little while. I think the biggest highlight for me was definitely the painting on the wall of Carolyn's friends Michael's house. I don't know if you guys noticed that insane painting he had that had like, that was just like a bunch of poorly drawn dead celebrities. And I just really loved it. Yeah, there was like, you know, like Kurt Cobain and Prince. And like, I'm pretty sure Joan of Arc was on there for some reason, like Basquiat.

And it was just like, like, it just like all crowded together, not even like playing pool and a diner in the 50s or anything cool like that. I was just mesperized by it. That was my highlight. That's really funny. Merrill, how about you? My highlight is going to be also in the apartment, but it's going to be that conversation. between Sergio and Caroline Stamberry talking about the daughter's college trip. I think it's so funny watching their relationship unfold as someone who watched Ladies of London

and understand her humor, what her old marriage was like. It's really funny watching her in this dynamic and it brings that lightness to the show. Do you like Sergio? I'm unsure. I do like him. and I think he's a good person outside of the show. I think his character on the show can be a bit frustrating because he tries too hard to be a housewife. And it's that clinginess and that almost like that toxic clinginess

that does irk me a little bit. And I know I saw it in the trailer. We're going to watch how their marriage impacts her relationship with her children. And so I'm not looking forward to that. and I don't like the way he's like, I can't believe you're going to go be with your daughter's dad. You know, like that irks me a little bit. But I like him.

Yeah, I found him so fucking annoying this episode. I just like was like, what are you doing? There was like you said, the scene where they're talking about the college trip and it did like toxic clingness is exactly what it came across. It was like this really unfounded jealousy where like it seemed so out of line for him to have. have this like this stance and and be like such a whiny baby about it. But then what like really set me over the edge was, and this is like my highlight or my low light, was when Caroline Stanbury is like basically holding court on the balcony at this party

and, you know, uh, having her conversation with Brooks and everyone around. And then Sergio comes out and is like, it's like, are you okay here? like she doesn't need your help like you need her help like she is she is like a queen here and she knows exactly what she's doing she can navigate the situation she was like you said she

was on ladies ladies of london and she is an old pro at this what what do you think you're doing here and i love that she like really dismissed them with just like a nod of the head but um i just i found him so annoying it stood out to me it was like the one like thorned born in my side watching this episode. So I had to call that out. We'll talk about our stars now. One through three stars, Vero. Who are your stars here?

Okay, Teline. I'm obsessed with her. I think she's so fun. I love the dynamic she's bringing. I love how in almost every scene, besides her party, she's wearing just like sweatpants and like a casual outfit. She doesn't really seem to care a lot,

which I think is great amongst women who do. I think she's going to bring a very, very good dynamic. My second star is Chanel Ion's husband, who the husbands don't need names, so he's just going to be Chanel I's husband. I love their relationship. I love him just, like, embracing her for who she is. And then also the fact that he was able to kind of help her write the letter

and bring her a bit of clarity on what she should. should be saying did did really stick out to me and then my last star is going to be caroline stammery because she's she's going to get my star every week i'm obsessed with her and she can do no wrong in my eyes yeah those are great picks how about you don't um ian's got to be number one because she's just a consistent consistently the funniest uh and it's just always exciting whatever she's got to open her mouth which is always constantly uh whether she has anything to say or not she's just really funny to me. So I feel like she's got to be my first star every episode two for that reason.

But let's give a second star to Carolyn B because she got drunk as hell. And that's always fun. Just wasted. You know, just fun to watch. And then related to that, let's give a third star to Carolyn Sanbury for being there when Carolyn Brooks is really drunk. And referring to trying to talk to her. as it's like trying to have a conversation with Jabba the Hut,

which was a pretty good, pretty good line, actually. Pretty funny read on the way here, like, islands are just drooping down and she's like starting to mumble. Can we talk about the edit that Caroline Brooks is getting in terms of her like drinking and her, like the editors are not holding back on her? No. Every time she's grinding. with Talene.

They're like, all right, we got to get, we got to get right in there. We've got to make sure everybody sees what a physical drunk she is. There was even one scene where they were taking shots at the party. And they only showed Talline and Caroline Brooks taking the shot. Like they zoom in on it. But I can see Caroline Stanberry in the back taking the shot as well. So it's interesting that they're trying to show that kind of narrative. Yeah.

Yeah. Also really like the cut when they're like Talline and Carolyn are like. doing some sort of like who, who, who kind of thing. Like after they jerk the spicy barit arena. And they keep the audio as they clip to Carolyn Sandbury, like looking at them and pointing and being like, whatever is happening over there. I don't think I want to be in the same room as it. I think my stars number one is going to be Chanel I.N.

She might be my favorite host wife right now. I think that I just love. like you said, her unpredictability, what she's saying. I think she also navigates these situations in just a really like compelling and heartfelt way.

I just think that, you know, she's got, she's so multifaceted as a housewife. Also, I think she is probably the best dressed housewife and I'm not a fashion expert, but she, like, every look that she has, it feels like it is bold and it is like

she's doing something and it's actually hitting. I find with other kind of like fashion housewives that we see like Doreet, there is like for every hit there's like two or three misses with a lot of a lot of them, but I have not seen A& miss on anything. So I love that. I yeah, she's she's my number one star right now. And then Carolyn Sandbury for all the reasons that we have covered. My third star is going to go to Sarah, who I thought we got a bit more dimension to this episode. Or I just really liked the scene at the party where she is awkwardly engaging with this guy that is being like thrusted upon her in this situation.

You know, kind of like we got to see her react like embarrassed and like a little upset and, you know, moving through the space very physically. with a, you know, either trying to get away from him or get away from others when she's in front of him. And yeah, I really just thought that that added a lot of energy to this episode. So I'm going to give her a star because honestly with Sarah, I don't see a lot of opportunity in the future for this franchise to award her a star. So we'll get one in right now. Yeah, Sarah's really interesting. Actually, because that was another thing I had thought about is she's trying to come off as a savior in every scene she's in.

Like, she even refers to herself as a priest and a confessional. And the way she shows up to the lunch wearing this, like, jacket and this professional attire, like, oh, I just came from a business meeting. She's always trying to have herself perceived a certain way. Which also brings me to another random point, and I wish I would have brought this up earlier. But it was something so random that I noticed that Lisa Milan, whenever she has her children on screen, they're all wearing all white. In several scenes this episode, they're all wearing all white. And I think when I like dissect it, I think she really tries to show this like perfect household, perfect everything with herself and her children. Like wearing all white when your kids are playing soccer outside and you're sweaty doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

then we're all white at an airport. I think there's like something going on with Lisa Milan. They're like, I'm excited to keep noticing that throughout the rest of the season. Yeah, totally. And that's a storyline that we haven't really touched on. You know, her relationship with her mom was also a very compelling aspect of this episode. Just, you know, we saw in the preview for the next episode where she's going to kind of have this heart to heart with her mom and be like,

why don't she move here? Why don't you move home? But I thought getting this like this context surrounding her relationship with her mother and the relationship that expats have with the city of Dubai is something that could add some color to this franchise where we had said on our last episode where we're kind of trying to figure out what the whole deal with Dubai is, like what the tone and what the like the hook is for this, this franchise. I think that this idea of the,

the expats all coming in and being in the singular playground, I think that there are opportunities for interesting, interesting stories and perspectives to be explored. So excited to see how that evolves. Definitely. Awesome. So we'll move on to Real Housewives of New Jersey in a moment. But if you have been enjoying what we're talking about so far,

Be sure to hit the like button or subscribe on your podcast platform of choice. That really helps us out. Also, let us know in the comments, what your thoughts are. We love to engage. We're a really small podcast right now. So anything that you say on our comments, we see. I'll do my best to reply to everything, even if it's mean. Okay, let's talk about Rehousewives of New Jersey then.

Vera, do you want to give us a quick summary? What happened this episode? Yeah. So we, you know, started where we left off with Rachel Fuda and the Fudas versus Theresa Judeyce and Louis and storming off from the restaurant. I don't know how any of us expected that lunch to go, but I don't know if we could even call it a lunch. Then we got to go into everyone's home. We got to see everyone's family dynamic. We got very intimate with pretty much every housewife, I would say, for a decent amount of the episode, which felt like a bit of a filler.

And then we end up at Melissa and Joe's housewarming, where you have conflict happened between almost every cast member possible. Every time I thought there couldn't be another fight, there was another fight. So that was pretty much the episode summarized. Yeah, totally. I the scene that took place at this like meet up between Rachel and Teresa and Louis and John I what was this place? It was like the back room or like a conference room in a restaurant or something and that just yeah with the white tablecloth like the whole thing. Yeah. Nobody else was there either right.

Like you see the walk through like the whole restaurant. It's just it's just been open so they could open one room in the back and sit down and then. Empty parking lot. Empty parking lot. Yeah. Yeah. Bizarre place. I did think that this was like a great scene for just, you know, we all knew how this was going to go.

But I like that. It was used to kind of introduce Chekhov's gun with this gift where, you know, Teresa like gives this, this bottle and be like, bring this to the house warm. Check off's blue label. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. On that note, let's do our artistic analysis of this. Vera, we'll start with you. Anything stand out to you?

Okay. So as we know, the Real House of New Jersey is a franchise that is just all about family. Good, bad, ugly. You get a lot of family. And when I was analyzing this through a different lens than I usually do, I thought it was really interesting that they really lean into this family aspect of the show in a way I hadn't noticed before. So we literally were in Danielle's home watching her wake up her kids.

And she's in a robe and she's in slippers and it feels very intimate. And our kids are just waking up. Then we're with Teresa and Louis with their kids and he's getting a haircut. And Teresa's also in a very casual outfit. I mean, they're all in glam. But dress casually. Then you have Dolores, her mom and her daughter on her daughter's only day off. And they're eating together and they're having these conversations about, you know,

Dolores's future and it feels very intimate like you're almost at family lunch with them. Then you're with Rachel Fuda and John and you're on the living room floor with her kids and you're hearing more about her daughter and the developmental issues are having and you feel like you're part of the family in that moment. And then we're with Margaret and we're in her bedroom helping her pick out her outfit and then we're on her bed with her and her husband and she has her hair tied up and she's wearing the under eye patches and she's also in a casual outfit and then we're with Jennifer Aiden in her bedroom with her husband. She's also dressed very casually and it's just, I've never noticed the way they lean into

this family aspect and they bring you into the most intimate parts of their household. And they really bring you in with their family and the different issues they have in their family dynamics. And it feels like a filler when you're not analyzing it through. like a conflict perspective, but to me, it was such an interesting aspect of today's episode. Yeah, totally. I think that it was really effective, like you said, for us to see all of these women in isolation within the context of their family and have that juxtaposed against what the dynamic is like when they are together and in a situation that is like loaded with, you know, all of this

drama. It really, I think, served the drama well, especially because, you know, you feel a lot more empathetic and you feel a lot more connection to these characters as people when you've got this additional context. If we were just going from dinner to dinner and not seeing everything that's going on in their lives and like building that connection, I think it would make these conflicts feel a lot less real and a lot less like personal. Dylan, what's it up to you? You know, I want to talk more about that bottle. First of all, it's like just, it's just a great Joe Gorga thing that he's like a Johnny Walker blue label drinker and has like a cellar full of them apparently. That seems very classic Gorga. And just the way that Melissa has to deal with

Teresa being there even when she's not there. And the way that it like sneaks in the back door through Dolores of all people is like just like such a great twist. And also a bit of a rhyming moment with Dubai where we also have a letter in this episode, except in this little episode, the letter is unread and dramatically burned in one of those like little like crappy like fire strats. which is great because Joe gave that note so much more value than whatever might have been written on it by burning it. Totally. And that was, I think from his perspective, the worst thing he could have done was to burn it because now he can't take offense at anything that's written, but he has to own the destruction of the attack. attempt to reach out of an olive branch that was offered, even though he won't accept that it is an olive branch.

And I think his explanation of why it doesn't count as an olive branch doesn't really make sense. He's like, he seems to be saying that it doesn't count if it's done publicly, but it's not really being done publicly. If unless, I mean, maybe that was always Teresa's plan that Dolores would bring it over or something. But it's like, it did kind of just sneak in there. It's not like Teresa showed up brandishing it during the scene.

She even put the ball into that side's court by first offering it to Rachel to bring. Exactly. Rachel should have known that this was going to make its way to the party if she left it behind. Because of course, like, of course it's going to. This was a really great example of Teresa being a very smart hostess. wife in a way that people don't like give her credit for because there was nothing that could go wrong for her once this was introduced if she gave it to rachel then rachel took it and didn't deliver it then that is like a potential like point of conflict and leverage that she has if she

does bring it and deliver it we see what happens at the party where like teresa is now able to be present at this party without being present i think that this was just very smart for her to like really just create something out of nothing. And yeah, this bottle, it representing the family bond that Teresa and Joe Gorga have, like that's the brand that their father drank. And so to show up and have this,

this bottle that represents Teresa at the party, like a full on guest. It's basically, Teresa's a guest at the party. And then for Joe to take the card, strip this piece that represents Teresa, like strip the identity from it and put the bottle away in, you know, with a bunch of other bottles. And then take this, this piece that now represents Teresa, this card and throw it in the fire.

I just, like, loved it. I thought it was so loaded with symbolism. And he basically made a martyr out of Teresa, like you said, Dylan. Like, burnt this publicly. And we see the people who are slowly moving over to the other side, like Jen Fessler and Jackie and how they respond to this. It's just like making a martyr out of Teresa and increasing her power. It's just I loved it both symbolically. I loved it strategically.

Yeah, I loved it. One of the interesting things I find when you see the scenes where Teresa is talking about Joe or Joe talking about Teresa, Teresa always refers to Melissa and Joe, or not always, but a lot of the time, as either my sister-in-law or my brother. Like, not, oh, can you give this to Joe? She's like, oh, can you give this to my brother? or oh, my sister-in-law and confessions versus Melissa and Joe just refer to Teresa as Teresa and Louie. And I just find that aspect of Jersey so interesting in the family dynamic of Teresa will not let you forget who's who and that they're related and that this goes deeper than just a housewife conflict.

Yeah, totally. Let's get into quotes. What was your favorite quote or standout quote from this episode? Mine is, am I a slob? Dolores to Jackie. It was just so good. It was just. And I love seeing Dolores activated.

She is back this season. Not that she ever went anywhere, but she's really this season going to get, I think, her teeth involved. And I'm excited. Yeah, totally. Yeah, I'm definitely, that's one of the things that has been exciting to me the most of this season, is that Dolores was so like keeping her hands clean the previous. the previous season.

And now she's getting like right up to the wrists and this and this one, which is whether she wants to or not, which is really great. And she's becoming more of like an engaged character too with the stuff with Polly with her like whole act of being like, oh, I'm not getting nervous that we're not getting married, but I'm getting nervous that I will be getting nervous. Like very like, you know,

trying to play up that she did that she's not worried about this. This is all fine, but also is clearly like getting worried about. about it and Polly being like, well, we can start a business together. And the Dolores justifying it being like, it's the highest form of flattery when a man says he wants to start a business with you. Is it? The Dolores is that really? I'm not sure about that.

I also love that after like a couple episodes ago, we had Dolores naming every one of her fucked up lopsided dogs and they're all called like just like rock and like microwave and shit. In this episode, we see a dog of hers that's just named. dog. So good work all around. And yeah, the fact that she ends up being the one sidled with this bottle is just another one of those moments where it's like, okay, now you can't disengage. You can call yourself Switzerland as much as you like, but now you are fully implicated. And that's good. I want that. Yeah. I loved this dynamic that we got between Dolores and Jackie and Margaret. I thought that this was a really, I love what they did visually with this conflict as well. When we see, you know, Jackie and Dolores like talking about the whole situation.

And Dolores is like the fulcrum between the conflict between Margaret and Jackie at this point. And we get this like rack focus from the conversation between Dolores and Jackie to Margaret in the background, like texting receipts to Delors. receipts to Dolores is like right in front. I just like and then that's what we see like the the seesaw fall and now Dolores and Jackie have beef because of this in real time Margaret's just chipping into the arsenal. And Joe going look at the phone. Look at your phone. That was so good.

Dolores puts her glasses on. I'm checking on my dogs. Yeah. Such a good moment. Yeah. Putting the glasses out just makes it that much fun. you do. Great work all around. Yeah. There was another moment within this like Margaret Jackie conflict that I really loved.

And it was when, you know, Joe Benino has like no idea what the situation is between Jackie and Margaret. And Jackie goes and gives them this like long hug just to piss Marginoff. That was great. So well. It's so good. Yeah. Jackie too is another person who like wasn't really. engaged last season and this season is really good of your heads dirty so I love that too and I love that mood for Verity. You immediately

just walk over to Joe and be like, I love you. And he's like, yeah, I love you too. And Margaret's like, what the hell are you doing? That's a good moment. Yeah. Let's talk a bit more strategy here. Did anything stand up to you, Varel? Well, I was going to talk about Marge showing

the text about Dolores to to Dolores. And one of the things that I find so interesting about it is that I'm still lost on how this friendship feels like it has exploded before our very eyes. And an interesting, I think Marge doing what she's doing feels classic Margaret, just to go, I'm going to, you want to hurt me? I'm going to stab you where it hurts. I'm going to come for you hard.

And so showing the text felt like, oh, you guys, the trust is now going to be over. And it's now going to turn into a battle of who said what about who and what other messed up things people have said. And it felt very in the moment from Margaret, but also something that she must have been sitting on, especially because we know that those texts were sent after the charity event where we saw Jackie and Margaret get into a bit of a tiff. So I think Margaret's probably started getting ready to have things in her back pocket when she needed them. And I thought that was an interesting strategy on her behalf because it does feel like there was a real friendship between her and Jackie. And yeah, it was a move. It was a move.

And to piss Dolores off, we're going to get some good TV out of it. I feel like my theory on what Margaret is trying to do with Jackie has been. proven correct this episode. So if you haven't listened to our past episode, we were talking about how confusing this situation between Margaret and Jackie is and why this is like blowing up and why Margaret would be trying to, you know, create conflict with Jackie as opposed to bring her on side when her real beef is with Teresa. My theory was that Margaret is trying to completely ice Teresa out of the show by not giving life to any conflict between her and Teresa.

She's trying to make an environment where conflict can exist without Teresa. And that's why when things got set off between Jackie and Margaret, where it was like, oh, well, Jackie said that, you know, Rachel and Teresa aren't going to make up with Margaret and Melissa in the year. Margaret goes over and starts getting into it with Jackie, but she gets into it about the book. Like she does not get into it over this conflict. with Teresa because she doesn't want to give life to the conflict with Teresa.

She wants there to be conflict as a result of other things. She wants to be able to make a case to the production that we don't need Teresa on the show. We've got more than enough things that we can fight about. We don't need to bring her into this so you can cut her. And I don't think it's going to work. I think we're just seeing Teresa is just playing at a completely another level. But I think that this is like a very smart and savvy move to try to do this. I think that this is a very smart play.

I don't think it's going to work, but I think it's really smart. And I feel like it is an attempt to ice Teresa out not just like by leaning into the conflict and trying to get people not to film with Teresa, but by making all the points of conflict be external to Teresa where she doesn't have a hand in it. So she's not useful to the show. So yeah, that's my thoughts on what the strategy is. Very interesting. I also now thinking about it, I did find it interesting that when the whole blue label fiasco was happening by the fireplace,

Margaret was sitting there with Jen Fessler, was it, I believe, and didn't say a single word about it, which I think last season Margaret had been the first to be like, that's so rude of her. I can't believe she would do that. She's very opinionated, very outspoken. And so it is true that she's trying not to give energy to most things involving Teresa. That's very interesting. Let's get into our highlights here. Dylan, we'll start with you.

What were your highlights? The whole party at the end was amazing, but I think we've covered that in detail. I'm also really interested in John Fuda versus Louis, even maybe more so than like, than Rachel versus Teresa. So that's like kind of bit that we got at the start carrying over from the previous episode. It is something that's really interesting to me. And I'm just waiting for John Fuda to like pull evil Louis out of his shell of out of his like routine of being like, I'm a good dad. I'm a great loving guy now. I'm just happy Mr. Family Man that he's so insistent on underlining every scene he's in.

and John Food is coming in as such like a blunt instrument really like coming into that conversation and just basically being like I'm not going to play ball I'm not going to have discussions I'm just going to storm out I'm waiting for that to like trigger the chaotic evil Louis that we saw bits of last season so that's kind of something that's also really interesting me too yeah dark Louis rising yeah we need Derek Louis back because that guy is so chaotic and so weird, just a weird, weird, weird man that I love to watch him. Verro, how about you?

I think my highlight is, first of all, anything Dolores this episode, I thought she was hysterical, but that lunch that she had with her mom and her daughter, I love their family dynamic. I love all things. The Katanas are just incredible. The mom's funny and it's sweet. And it feels very real. and you can tell the daughter doesn't really care about the show but she's also willing to get involved when necessary

so that was a big highlight for me also I mean it goes back to the blue label Dolores just like running around the party holding it like a deer in headlights of oh shit was so funny I was like put the bottle down just put it down and walk away from it that did that gave me a little bit of a giggle My highlight that we haven't really talked about too much yet is this emerging conflict between Jen Aiden and Danielle. I love how leading up to it, we got this conversation between Bill and Jen, where Bill's like, oh, do you think Teresa is going to mind you at this going to this party? And obviously, Teresa wants boots on the ground in this party.

So that is like, there's no question there. But when they get into the discussion about Danielle and Jen Aiden is like, oh, she's an elitist, people remember how you treat them on the way up. And God has a way of humbling you. And she's referring to herself as God. Like, I'm going to humble you. I just thought that that was really amazing. I love when we see a engaged Jennifer Aiden who's like ready to make things happen, which is pretty much all the time. Like Jen Aiden is a fantastic housewife for that.

But yeah, I love her getting herself amped up with Bill over this and excited to see how this plays out. Yeah, Danielle's in a really vulnerable position right now because she's kind of been pushed out by both camps. And she's just kind of, she feels kind of on an island right now. What was interesting about that conflict is Danielle was really quick to apologize. She, I mean, they got into it a little bit by the bar, but then Danielle was like, listen, I'm sorry. sorry if I dropped the ball. I'm sorry if I did anything wrong. Like I do I do take it on the chin. But then we see next episode that things are very much not squashed between the two of them. Oh yeah. So I'm excited to see how this because it could have if Jennifer doesn't want any problems with Danielle, she could have taken that apology.

I've been like, all right, yeah, we're done. Yeah, totally. Yeah. But she she's going to have a problem with her. Yeah. That that that scene where they're talking about it. You're right. It's so energetic to see, you know, Danielle is trying to really de-escalate the situation, whereas Gen Aiden is trying to do the opposite and ratchet things up and being like, no, this is a problem. And I don't think that Danielle has the experience to really read between the lines here as to what is going on. Like, we saw last, last season, Danielle, Fantastic Housewife, I love her. I think that it was a great rookie season. But, you know, she got missed it by Jen Aden and Teresa. Like, they were able to play her like a puppet and we saw that play out.

And she's not picking up on the clues that Jen has to leave as a result of like building this conflict with her. She's, you know, trying to play from from her heart a bit here. And yeah, obviously it's not going to pay off given the previews that we're seeing for next week. Let's talk stars. Vera will start with you. Who are your stars? I think we have to give the first. star to the blue label bottle. I mean, it just, it has to be the, it just, all the zoom ins,

they gave that bottle or were perfect. Yeah. So that's going to be, that's going to be my number one. My number two is going to be Dolores because she gave us more insight on her personal life. She also pot stirred, which we very rarely see Dolores get her hands dirty in other people's drama like that. Not only with Melissa and Teresa, that kind of pot stirring, she's did there, but also going up to Marge and being like, Jackie just said this about you. And then being like, oops, you know, that was a fun moment. And then seeing her get activated, I'm here for it. I'm ready for it. It's going to be a good, it's going to be a good time with Dolores. And then third is going to be Margaret. I mean, sending that text.

That screenshot is just, it was everything. And I understand her when you're in a moment and you're like, that person really pissed me off. Let me just act on it and really give it to her of she's going to regret this. And Jackie's reaction to it was also so good. I loved it. I loved it. Yeah, yeah, fantastic. Dylan, how about you?

Gotta give it to Dolores for the first there. Great episode for her, really, for all the reasons we discussed. Let's give a second start to Jackie. I mostly just love her. over to Hung Jo, but also it's just like, I'm just glad that she's getting a little messy. She's really getting implicated here.

And let's give a, oh, let's give a third star to Louis because he's just, I just laugh every time he's on screen. I just like what a strange man he is. Yeah, I think number one star I agree. It's

the bottle for me. It's, you know, it's the emotional core of this episode. It's the strategic core of this episode. And it's, yeah, it's perfect. I want to give another star, I think, to Jackie. I think her doing a lot this episode and, you know, just being an agent of chaos, which I don't ever remember Jackie when she was like a full-time housewife being as chaotic as we're seeing her this season. So I really love that.

And then, you know what? I want to give a third star. to Joe Gorga because I think even if it was like a little bit of a misplay and emotional to like throw the card into the fire, I just really like that as a visual moment and adding power. And so yeah, it was something that really stood out to me in this episode and I think it deserves props. Awesome. Well, I think that about does it. Did you guys have any final thoughts on New Jersey? Yeah, I want to ask you what you guys think of the word slob. How offended would you be if someone called you a slob? I'd be pretty offended. I do like it as a word, like the way it sounds. Like, it sounds like an insult. I love an insult that just like that sounds like the way it is. Like it sounds like a blob of crap just like hitting a tiled floor, you know? Slob. It sounds like it sounds insulting. And so it's good for that. It's a good word. I would. would not want to be called it. I think if slob is the new rat, I'm happy that we have a new a new word that's beyond the pale that gets to be litigated. Yeah, yeah, I agree. I think it's

not a very nice thing, obviously, but in the like spectrum of things that you could be called, it's it's kind of a nothing. Like, I don't know, I can, I can see it providing momentary offense. but I don't know that it's got the lasting power to really be a continuing issue between Jackie and Dolores. Awesome. Well, that has been Bravo Outsider for this week. Vero, do you want to let everyone know where they can find you? Yes, you can find me on Instagram at that's my opinion.pod. And on where you get most of your podcasts, that's my opinion pod.

And yeah, thank you guys so much having me. This is a lot of fun. Yeah, thank you. Dylan, how about yourself? You can find me on substack once at a while. My name is Dylan Ferguson. You can find me in the comments of these videos if you really look for me, if you're really trying to find me. Say something mean, like call Slobbs.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm Craig Midwinter. You can find me on our Instagram or TikTok at Bravo Outsider. Bravo Outsider.com is where you can find all of our episodes. It's mostly linked to our. YouTube, but on occasion we will put out a VR version if that's something that you are interested in. Be sure to like and subscribe. Leave your meme comments below.

Until next week, keep on wiping.