Oscars Outsider - RHONY S8 Berkshires + Scheana & Lala's "Christmas Slay" UNWRAPPED! | Bravo Outsider Podcast Christmas Special

Episode Date: December 18, 2023

Welcome to the Bravo Outsider Podcast! Join hosts Craig Midwinter and Sandy Klowak along with special guest Sean O'Rourke for our Christmas Special "'Twas a Night in the Berkshires". We're diving into the iconic Real Housewives of New York S8 Berkshires trip, plus we're going to discuss Scheana and Lala's new Christmas single "Santa's Slay" 📺 Chapters 00:00 - Twas a night in the Berkshires 00:31 - Intro 00:52 - Scheana Marie and Lala Kent - Christmas Slay discussion 12:22 - RHONY S8 Berkshires Discussion Intro 14:10 - Housewives in a Hurry: RHONY S8 Berkshires 15:09 - What's Weird: RHONY S8 Berkshires 21:28 - RHONY S8 Berkshires Highlights 44:40 - RHONY S8 Berkshires Housewife Ratings 54:43 - Outro 🍸Featured Housewives: RHONY: Bethenny Frankel, Luann de Lesseps, Ramona Singer, Sonja Morgan, Carole Radziwill, Dorinda Medley, Jules Wainstein Vanderpump Rules: Scheana Marie, Lala Kent 📣 Stay Connected: Find Sandy Klowak on Instagram at ⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/corporealcurios⁠⁠ Find Bravo Outsider on Instagram at ⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/bravooutsider 📖 Credits Music by FASSounds from Pixabay #realitytv #rhony #rhonylegacy #rhugt #vanderpumprules #pumprules

Twas a night in the Berkshires, a housewives affair, with drama and antics swirling the air. Bethany and Luan, their feud took the stage in Dorinda's manner. They unleashed their rage. Luanne, the countess in her royal flair, claimed a role in skinny girl, but did Bethany care? Luan, you're a slut, Bethany flung with no cheer. Happy holidays indeed in the Berkshires this year. I just all day! I decorated! I did it nice! Hello and welcome to a very special Christmas episode of Bravo Outsider.

I'm your host, Craig Midwinter, and I'm very excited to be joined by Sandy Cloack and Sean O'Rourke. Welcome back, guys. Thanks for having me. Awesome. We've got a super fun show plan today. We're going to cover an iconic set of Real Housewives or New York episodes. But before we venture off to the Berkshires, Sheena and Lala from Vanderpump Rules dropped a brand new Christmas song, Christmas Slay. And I think we need to discuss it.

Sean, as our outsider and someone with impeccable music taste, I want to start with you. Are you familiar with any Bravo music? What did you think about this one? I'm familiar with some, like on display from one of the New Jersey ones, I remember, from many years ago. Maybe other ones here and there. I think Tom has a band, right, from Vanderpom. Yeah, Charles McMansion. Yeah.

On display is an interesting one to pick. out. That's a little bit of a deep cut, I feel like. But Melissa Gorga's music is like more catchy than it has any right to be. I've had a part of on display like pop up in my head for the last 12 or 13 years just randomly. And I can't tell you why. But I don't know, for the the Sheena and La La La one, it's, I think it's like, that's for other people to enjoy. you weren't you weren't feeling it yeah not not entirely um i don't know it's like i'll find nice things to say about it it's it's a produced piece of music that's great um yeah not entirely for me particularly i i can't tell who's doing what part but like the very uh training

wheels on rap at the end of the song oh yeah is maybe a low light there. But, you know, I don't want to like, to be and anybody doing their best to make an art too much. So good for them. Yeah, I don't know about like making an art. Maybe making a buck is probably more what they were going for. But that's the thing.

Like, it's, I don't think it can stand on its own as, like, a piece of music or a piece of art. It's very clearly part of, like, a vertical. Yeah. And I don't think that there's any intention. for it to stand alone because this entire song was like fan service to me like there's one reference after another they talk about like erika jane and the like the earrings we got the tray's amigas on orange county it was very very directed at bravo fans which i can kind of respect but also at the

same time like la la has tried to make a serious attempt at music and so has has sheena so So like this is the first one that kind of stands out to me as being like really focused on Bravo fans as an audience. And I don't know. I thought it was super catchy. But I also, again, it's something that only really has a place for fans. What did you think, Sandy? Yeah, I agree. And it's a little sad to see them moving from legitimate but yet delusional career aspirations to something that actually does make sense.

sense for them to create as a product, as you're saying. And as I've said before, I love a delusional, like, singing career storyline on these shows. So it's a little sad to see them actually maybe make something that, yeah, really does have, have an audience and have a, have a consumer. But, yeah, I find it catchy. I might, I don't know that I'd put it on again, but like, I might. Would you put it on before a Countess Luann track? Well, I was going to say, because I also, you know, getting in the holiday spirit was watching Luann's Christmas music video and having a video just of course adds so much so don't know if they'll get to that but her all I want for Christmas is you or whatever it's called is so amazing like just the awkwardness oh you think that one's better it's not comparable it's a whole other genre and it's what I want from these you don't agree Craig like I feel like it's so Oh, awkward. It's like, I love it.

I'm with Sandy there because, like, the Sheena Lala song is sort of bad to be in a way that, like, like, um, like sort of like a blockbuster hero movie that I don't enjoy is. Like, I just don't want to watch it. But the Countess Luann one is more like seeing like the room or something. You gotta tell me apart, Lisa. Like, you can kind of revel in its, it's baffling failures. Exactly. I feel like, okay, so Countess Luann, I think, in terms of her music, it's one that I think leans more into the fan service side of things than pretty much anyone else that I can think of in the Bravo sphere.

All of her songs are like referential, like feeling Giovanni, Money Can't Buy You Class, like they all are tied in with some sort of storyline that she's got going on or some sort of quote. So I felt like, you know, this song from Sheena and Lala was very similar in that way. It doesn't compare to something like, you know, other songs from even Lala and Sheena. Like Lala's song, Boy with James Kennedy is so good. Like that stands on its own as a certified banger, in my opinion. But like, and, you know, good as gold is like, Sheena was really, really trying to do something and like leverage this platform that she got to like catapult herself to another level. And, you know, it's so honest.

And so I think that this collab between Sheena and Lala is way closer to anything that Luann has done through her career as a musician than it is to anything that they have done previously. But yeah, I don't know. I don't agree. Maybe. Yeah. There's a level, there's an interesting and perfect combination with Luann of like a level of awareness of what her fans want with her cabaret show and hamming it up. But there's this ambiguous like level of still delusion that she's like a good singer that's like baked into that that makes it so perfect. whereas like this one was auto-tuned or whatever you call it.

It's like robot voices, right? Like I don't know if, I guess Lawl's a good singer, but Sheena's not. And I couldn't tell them apart, right? Like you can't. It's, it's generic like Sean was saying. It's for, it's to an extent, it's for Bravo fans, but it's also for the masses because it could also, it's just a catchy, like throw away song. And like, like Luanz is not going to be listened to by the masses. I totally agree.

It's goofy and it's ham. It's hammed up. It's sort of campy. And she's, she leans into that. But yeah, she's in this sort of weird middle ground of doing that and not, and just, I think, a lack of, I don't think she's super self-aware either. Like, I don't know. I think that's really fascinating and that's why I really like it.

And I would compare hers more to like Ashley Darby's coffee and love or whatever, where it's like, I don't know. I don't know if that's fair. I don't know enough about Ashley's connection to music. Obviously, Luann's more committed to this career. but yeah i mean coffee and love is such a uh a standout hit um that's high praise to be compared to coffee and love in my opinion one of my favorite bravo song um i i think that ash ashly's motivations were like clearly not serious like it was a very unserious thing for her to do and i think you're

right in terms of like luan for the most part her music is also very um serious, but, um, yeah, that ambiguity that you've got from Luann's like, um, lack of self-awareness or the, you know, it's hard to tell how aware she is at any point really adds to the mystique of it all. Whereas, yeah, you're, you're right. There's no hiding how self-aware they are when they are doing this song Christmas Slay, which I think is, I don't know, it's,

it's, yeah, it's still fun to me. I think that there are some, like, it's catchier on a whole than a lot of other Bravo songs. Like,

I feel like there was more effort put into the, um, you know, the composition of it all and making sure that it's got like a nice hook. And that much I, I love and I think that there's some standout lines but also I am a little off put by how you know in your face it is for the fandom so what what standout lyrics were there for you guys from this one um there's a bit about being Santa's thoughty or something in there isn't there

yeah Santa's little thoughty that's probably the most ear catching for me yeah For me, it was rhyming something with Lisa Rina, which is not how you say her last name. I don't remember what the rhyme was, but it wasn't even close. And of course, the Rachel dig, blah, whatever. The Rachel dig was so unnecessary, and they just opened themselves up to criticism on that because, I don't know, the fact that there seems to be some duplicitedness on the part of at least she. in terms of her, you know, oscillating between being on Ariana side and Tom Sandoval's side in this upcoming season and all the speculations surrounding that, the fact that they just throw that in there, like, why? What does that help? And now you're trying to like make

a buck on her name. Yeah, not into that at all. I think there should be more disc tracks and Bravo. Yeah. It really should be. Yeah. The line is, it's the Trays Amiga, sipping tequila's lip service to Santa like Lisa Rinas, which is pretty good. They forced it and that kind of makes it a little bit better. Sure, yeah. A lot of it feels like if like a drama teacher is trying to do a cool rap to connect with some students, like it very much has that energy and flow to it. Yeah, totally.

So, yeah, safe to say that I've got a. complicated relationship with the song and it's only been out for a few days now. Do you guys have any other thoughts on this before we move into the body of what we want to cover? No, just Luan's Christmas song forever. That's all I have to say. I put that song out of my mind almost immediately. It's in my, it's stuck in my head today.

It's pretty bad. Luan's, Luan's song is also like from the cursed season of Real Housewives. New York. That was the last season for that cast. And there's kind of a stink on it for for me. That's fair. And that's why it was so nice to travel back as a segue to the Berkshires or however you pronounce that to the ultimate most wonderful cast other than having Tinsley there and just remembering the golden days of Roney because this was absolutely my favorite show. And like it's good now again with the new cast, but it's different. And just so nostalgic. And I was like

coming home. I'm like statement necklaces and just all these things that I, you know, don't have in my life anymore. It was so lovely. Christmas is for. It was so refreshing. And Sandy, you were on earlier this season when we picked another episode from this season. It was like this. It was right before. Right? I think it was like two episodes before maybe. It was with, we got clips of it with the drunken ray at Derey. Linda's party or whatever. Yeah. The one they flash back to?

Yeah. Yeah. It was really refreshing. Sean, have you seen anything from this season before? No. I was trying to put it in the timeline. This would be like 2015-16 or so. Yeah, I think about that.

2016, it aired. I looked it up. Okay. So a few years after I had like stop watching most or had like a a long time off, I should say, from Bravo shows. So who did you recognize from this then? Oh, some of my very best friends, Countess Luann, Bethany, Ramona.

I don't remember. I'm sure Sonia was on some of the stuff I watched, but I don't remember specifically. But definitely Luann and Bethany and Ms. Singer all stand out. Okay, amazing. So we're going to do a little segment called Housewives in a Hurry. We're going to give you 20 seconds. I want you to just brain dump everything that stands out to you from these episodes that we watched.

You've only got 20 seconds, so try to fit in as much as you can. And your time is going to start right now. Okay. Durinda has weird obsession with Christmas decorations, including, I think, a Santa Manikin in the background of one episode. Luann and Bethany having a Raylio to Joe Pesci, how my fun. argument that is a through line through all three. She's Asian. Oh, damn.

It's not a lot of time. You got a good amount. Did you have more that you want to want to get out there? Well, just I was like really thrown by all the references to Jewel's Asian pride, I guess. Oh, nobody could spell pedophile. That's the other thing. Yes. Amazing.

Let's get into a little segment called What's Weird. And I want to go around and identify one thing that's out to you as just being like it's from another planet. We'll start with you, Sean. From all three? Yeah, from all three. From all three episodes. One single thing. The one single thing would be the line, it's very Asian of you to bring games, which I think.

think Carol might say to Jules at some point? Yeah. It's just like, I think something else is happening and they're busting out board games and like, I don't know what that means. Yeah. I had that markdown as well and I was like, oh, is that like an Asian stereotype? Am I like just not up on my Asian stereotypes? I feel like it's like a German thing more than anything.

yeah um sandy how about you okay so i'm gonna go a little bit like i don't know a little broad on this one but i was actually really struck by just the eerie and dreamlike uh aimless limbo since i was getting from this berkshire's house after this fight i was like kind of creeped out it was like unnerving supernatural, intangible. They were like wandering around in these hallways after this fight. Some people were in sequence. Some people were in pajamas. Some people were playing pool. Some people were watching Law & Order. Some people were buying gifts online at a Christmas party. People just sort of wandering, sending text to each other, then seeing each other, but kind of passing as if they were both ghosts in other parallel dimensions. And I was trying to figure out what is this like, you know,

calling to what is what is this feeling that I'm like what in pop culture did this connect to for me and what I came up with was the Christmas Eve episode of X-Files where Scully and Mulder are in this mansion haunted by two ghosts was the night before Christmas in a house full of ghosts Mulder Scully and their special guest hosts ed Asner and lily tomlin would show them away but the doors are all locked and they're here to stay the X-files and all new Christmas episode, Sunday at 9, 8 Central on Fox. They get separated and there's these, the ghosts are creating hallucinations and they just kind of wander around and finally make themselves their way out of this maze, this supernatural,

creepy, weird, otherworldly place. So that is maybe way too complex of an answer for this new segment, but I thought that was weird. No, that's amazing. I love the, like, tying it to ghosts because, like, ghosts have a comment. like ghosts are Christmasy thing, right? Everything goes away at Halloween, except for ghosts. Ghost stick around.

And, you know, obviously the Christmas Carol's like the biggest example of this. But you're right. It is like disorienting almost to get a sense of like what is going on. And there's just people wandering through and these housewives haunting the Blue Stone Manor. That's really amazing. It's like the shining. I love that. Yes.

I was interested in if you guys had any other ones. ones because that's a good one too. Like what is this call upon in like pop culture and film history? Like because I feel like it's significant this sort of, I don't know, it was a feeling that felt familiar and I was very interested in that. I love it. And I have no doubt that they will continue to haunt that place far after they've all passed. Along with the ghost of Richard. Yeah, exactly. The thing that I identified as we're just a tiny little thing, when we get the shots, and this was shown a few times of Dorinda making, making it nice and like setting everything up,

she goes into each bedroom. And on the nightstand, she places like a PEZ thing, like a PEZ dispenser. And like there's like a completely like wrapped and packaged PEZ dispenser that she's like going and putting on every nightstand, which I have never caught in all my previous watchings of these episodes before until I was like taking notes and looking for things.

But yeah, She's putting Pez dispensers on every one's nightstand. And I don't know, just really quirky thing that I wanted to call out. I think that's kind of cute. It is, but it's definitely not like something I would want as a guest. But it's certainly, I would appreciate its weirdness for sure. You wouldn't want a Pez? It would be cool of those pest dispensers of the housewives.

That would be cool. Now, that would be amazing. That would be 100% wonderful. Yes. Instead of like the monogram bullshit that you usually get on one of these trips. Like a big wine glass.

Could you get? Can you get custom Pez? Is that saying? I don't know. I feel like probably not. The amount of effort that would need to go into actually like like sculpting or modeling a head.

Can you make me one? You can just pirate it. Yeah, but you still need like a human in the loop in order to like create it in a way that is suitable for manufacturing. I think I'm not a manufacturing expert, but it feels like something that you would still need to involve a human in. But if you work for PES, let us know in the comments. I would really help us out. It's a good time to say if you are watching us on YouTube, hit like and subscribe. If you're listening on Spotify or your platform of choice,

make sure that you leave a rating and a review and find us on YouTube because we do from time to time post video essays and stuff that don't get released on our podcast feed. So be sure to check out our most recent one, which is what if Teresa Judeites exploded in the Challenger disaster? A fun little alternate history story there. So if you like Cold War Allegory and Real Housewives of New Jersey, like the 80 people who have watched this video, well, then this is for you. I want to move into highlights now.

since we're covering three episodes you can do anywhere between like two to six highlights I know that there's a ton that went on here so we'll start with you Sean what were your highlights yeah the main one is just the through line of the three episodes is the Luann and Bethany

argument is like such a nice piece of drama I feel like you got to give credit to Luan for like being willing to throw down but is really outclass by Bethany in an argument. I think it's the second of the three episodes. Like Bethany's throwing heaters. She brings up gray gardens when she's like tearing it to Luann living with Sonia.

And I think the best Luad can come up with is like something about like put that in your cookie jar. Yeah, like that held my interest throughout all three like really good high drama. Love it. Yeah. So I've got a little bit of a. question here. You've said that you think that Bethany came out on top and I feel like there's like no question about that. But Dorinda says, you know, kind of her excuse for not inviting Sonia is, you know, because she wants to protect her. And then afterwards, she even says, like,

tell Sonia it was a good idea that she didn't come because Bethany was, would have torn her to threads. What do you guys think? Would Sonia have made this trip better? Or, worse. I felt so bad for Sonia. Yeah. Like when the scene when she like gets told she can't come is quite heartbreaking. But I don't, what's the, what's the context there? Like Sonia and Bethany are arguing over Sonia's drink line or something. Yeah.

So Sonia is, so Bethany owns Skinny Girl or that was her like brand. Sonia this season has decided that she's going to start her own drink line called Tipsy Girl and it just like set Bethany off and she was so pissed. There's an episode, a few episodes back, the same episode as the one with like the drunken Ray conversation which is a fantastic episode where Bethany... I have a charity. Yeah. It helps poor people.

Luann's lover. but yeah Bethany invites her up to the skinny girl office or whatever and basically like tears her apart and tells her just how awful of a person she is and so Dorinda has decided not to invite Sonia and she's saying that it's because she wants to protect

Sonia from the wrath of Bethany which I think watching this episode was probably a good idea I don't know that's entirely the motivation for it I don't think it was like purely to protect Sonia, I think it was also to be, you know, continue to be in Bethany's good graces. But I feel like Bethany would have actually low-key wanted Sonia to be there so that instead of lashing out at Luann as a proxy for Sonia, she could just do it directly. Well, she sure didn't seem happy to see Sonia at the party. She was not happy to see Sonia at the party.

So I don't know about that. But I think Sonia should have been there. That's the cast. Sonia's iconic. And she could only add more chaos and that's only ever good. So it depends how we're judging this. Yeah, it would have been. But yeah.

For me, yeah, she should have been. And Luann needed more people like on her side or just not against her. Like, I don't know. Just needed more neutral or chaos agents in the mix, I think. Yeah. So if you could sub out one person with Sonia, who would it have been? If we sub out Carol, what happens to Bethany? That's what I would do.

But which Bethany just leave then, like then that's no fun. But, you know, they're a little, they're a little like besty clique people. So that changes the dynamic. But I don't know. Maybe then Bethany just wouldn't come or something lame. That is really interesting. We would lose out on the dynamic between Luam and Carol, which I feel like that is like a more volic. There's like, there's more history there than there is between.

Bethany and Luan. Like Bethany was just all pent out, pent up on like Sonia needed to like attack Luann. But yeah, no, I feel like that would be a really interesting substitution. My gut would say like pulled jewels because she didn't really bring a whole lot. But she did have one of my favorite moments. And this is going to be one of my highlights. But the scene where she's out there.

there on the phone, you know, with her dad who's sick and has pneumonia. And then Luann comes out and is like just not listening to anything that Jules says and just talking about how like she was called a slut when Jules is like, I'm worried my dad is dying. She's like, oh, Bethany just called me a slut. Yeah, like she didn't even say like, uh-huh. She didn't even say any words that acknowledged she heard that she was with another person. Like, and that is one of the most, that is a very iconic Luan scene. And so, yeah, if she, she needed to be like the whatever, like other person in that scene,

then she, it was worth it. But otherwise, yeah, maybe she should have been with her dad. Yeah. Well, she had to bring the board games, too, though. Yeah. Yeah. Sean, what other highlights did you have? Oh, a low light is the, I think it's John.

is Durinda's partner. Oh, yeah. It makes his really, like, awkward joke about the phone being moist or wet, and it just falls, like, so flat. I think Durinda shoots him a look, and he has to do, like, a, never mind. Yeah. And then there's a cutaway to, I think it's Jules,

who gives her list of words that women don't want to hear. Moist, Oitman, and Grundle. Yeah. Yeah, so that, I have that as a low light, but it stood out quite a bit. More importantly, though, I want to bring up Dorinda's cake that she has at the sleepover.

Maybe I'm wrong with this, but I feel like she presents the cake as like something her mom made her as like a tradition that they have. And then that's introduced somewhere in the second episode or the first episode. And then later on, it comes up multiple times that her mom bought the cake.

Yeah. And it feels like a really weird, like thing to be so emotional over like my mom paid for this cake and had it delivered um she even calls it sacred she she's like yeah yeah this is sacred to me this like cake from the first time it comes up she points out like oh every year my mom i don't know if she says makes but it's heavily implied that like this is something her mom has done for her forever and made her a cake it's like it's like a sheet cake you bought it the berkshire's bakery or whatever yeah yeah I don't know what's going on there.

Sandy, what were your highlights? I was kind of interested in the jewels, in her dad thing, because it kind of, now that there's all this stuff out in more recent past about Leah being at some, I don't know if it was the Berkshires again or some Hampton's house when her grandma was dying. It kind of reminds me of that. And now Leah is like suing Bravo for all sorts of things. and that was in the news as one of the things like in this house, they're like reality reckoning where they're not treated well as employees,

that she was like pressured to be there. But at the same time, I don't know. I sound like Joel's dad was fine. And more than once, she says like, this is the best day of my life. So I found that kind of interesting. Like I get going to a weekend if like your parent is like ambiguously ill and you're kind of keeping tabs. But if you're like, I think he's going to die and this is the best weekend of

my life. I forgot I had kids and like any responsibilities. Probably not comparable to Leah's situation, but I just found that kind of interesting. And it was interesting to see, oh, go ahead. No, that's interesting because it like speaks to this like really fraught familial dynamic that she has. Like I know that her and her husband divorced sometime after this. And like I think from the stinger that we got, we kind of see a little bit of tension. I don't remember that being like a really big through line on this season, but we got that clip where she's like pissed off at him because he makes some sort of like gross comment on, um,

wanting a hot nanny around or something like that. Um, but yeah, just like her being on both sides of the spectrum in terms of being like so concerned about her, her dad possibly dying. And then her, seeming so like relieved of the burden

of being a parent for like 24 hours and how like refreshed she is that she says that this is like the best best day of my life or something like that is is so so funny and well not funny but like just remarkable yeah and it's not it's not unrelatable honestly like life is complicated you can feel many things. I don't know. So yeah, it's kind of interesting. It was interesting to see Ramona

act as a very obvious and awkward and ineffective, like, peacekeeper and mender of fences, because I'm so used to sort of Ramona being horrible and, like, she got officially canceled for horrible things. And it kind of reminded, I was like, I don't really remember. I guess she might have gotten progressively more horrible as time went on. And perhaps she was like, encountering younger people with different values than her and like kind of feel like getting pushed out of the show because she seems like almost like a reasonable like quirky and weird and annoying but like not totally out you know out to lunch so i found that interesting and trying to remember what she was like before yeah this was the least annoying i've ever found yeah yeah and especially in the last

episode i think when she's talking with luan at her party later she gives her like actually decent advice and the advice that she said that she gave to Sonia seemed like it was decent advice and I was like shocked to see Ramona being this functional. It was

you know it was and selfless frankly because she was just like trying to help her friends kind of mend things and you know Ramona's not one of those housewives that really played the game like she wasn't

strategic. She just like operated by her own compass, which was, you know, always about putting Ramona first. And so to see this, yeah, I agree. It was completely uncharacteristic. She does need to train her dog better, though. Oh, God. Yeah. Gross. What happened to the dog? The dog disappeared after shooting on the floor. Taken away out back. The housekeeper took care of it. Yeah. Any other highlights, Andy? My last one was my runner-up for What's Weird, which was a little moment when they were making breakfast.

And I think it was Jules was pulling out a whisk or one of them was. And then Jules grabs one of those like head massagery things. And she's like, Drenna, this is a head massager. And Drenna doesn't, she's kind of like, oh, like she doesn't seem to acknowledge it. I'm like, I think Dirinda is using that head massager as a whisk. So that's kind of cute. As long as it's cleaned, I guess it's fine. I think she puts it on Durinda's head and then like presumably back into a drawer or utensil holder or something.

Oh, that's amazing. Yeah, I don't know what to say, like how to narrow it down in terms of highlights because this just has so much going on. I feel like the main things that stand out to me are the dynamics between the women that, we get here like the fight between bethany and luan i think we are seeing bethany at her like at her best and maybe her most complex because like i feel like she doesn't really have that much of a beef with luan but we are seeing so much going on that is partially related to sonia but also this season, I think her relationship with Jason was like at its most like toxic,

their breakup. So this really felt like everyone's going to the Berkshire's to, you know, blow off some steam. And that's what this looks like for Bethany is for her to just go on a complete utter rampage. It was beautiful to see. It is so toxic. And I mean,

everyone kind of hates Bethany on social media now. I don't care. This is iconic housewife behavior. I love it. And these episodes will never not be special to me because like it's just it's so it's so like it's pure toxicity and it's being motivated by so many complex factors. And you know, it's nothing is really about what is happening on the surface and the words that are coming out of. out of her mouth. It's her like, you know, getting all this anger out on camera in a way that like, this is the, the best way that she can express herself. Like, this is how she, um, she has more of a,

like, uh, a vocabulary built around conflict than she does about like anything else. And so, yeah, I, I feel like this is like reality TV poetry. So Bethany is my number. one highlight here. But this is also like masterful work from Luan in a way that like I think Luan doesn't always, um, you know, Luan isn't necessarily a fighter directly. Like she's got a way of just like, you know, blowing things off and like, and she's in this enclosed space and she's like doing what she constantly does. And sometimes she's backing down and like giving up ground.

But also like there are times where she's just like making it like, oh, it's no big deal. Like not really receiving what Bethany is putting down, which makes Bethany more pissed off. And I don't know, just it was like the perfect storm. And so those two are my number one highlight. another thing that I love is when we get a little clock, like the timestamps on these shows, and we see when things start and how things are going, how much of this iconic conflict happens in such a short period of time?

Like I think, you know, it was over the course of like four or five hours that we got the bulk of these episodes. episodes. And that is just like so much reality TV gold condensed there. Like I'm very curious if when they left and the cameras stopped rolling, whether like the cast realized how like iconic they were or like the producers had to have known how like fruitful this was going to be. But it's, yeah, it it's so fascinating. Totally. Yeah. I thought Luen. held her own. Like honestly, had a lot of sympathy for Luan just genuinely, like, she was really

brutally attacked. And as much as I totally agree, this was amazing reality TV, there's still a part, there's still one part of me that, like, is not cool with like the really, like, nasty things that Bethany said to her, like, as far as slut shaming. I understand her point when she was a hyper group. But, you know, there's a little part of me that's like, ugh. And Luan just like, hell, like, that's harsh to take and she like she's content she soldiered on and she remained she remained luan like you said and she did that outdoor scene with jewels that was like so beautiful and it just i really i come out with luan as like my i don't know luan has my heart in this episode yeah and i i think one one other thing that really stood out to me about this was how much like overhearing there was

There's just like such perfect timing between like, you know, someone is there in the midst of like talking shit and the other, that person just happens to walk in the room or be just around the corner. It is so like perfectly choreographed. It's like, this is ballet. This is. There's also a really great forced overhearing moment where Bethany goes to gossip about the way and by sitting closer to her on the other side of Ramona. Yes. It's like such a, such a flex. Bernie is such a heel.

Um, yeah. So, uh, question for you guys. Does Luan have the same haircut as Bethany? Or does Bethany have the same haircut as Louin? It's pretty similar. Um, they have really different like neck and head shapes to me, though. So you, I think, feel like you could pull it off as different. But yeah, it's pretty close.

Was that a brand new haircut for Bethany? That is unfortunate. And she does admit it. They obviously do like similar. It's pretty funny. That was wise of her if she wanted to be. Yeah. Yeah.

It's the same hair. It is. They both look good. Yeah. Yeah. They both look great. And you both have dark hair. There's only not that many options.

I don't know. But I'm glad that Luann had something on her. because she needed something. Like, she really needed something, right? It is like, like the biggest nothing,

but it's something. It doesn't matter. Yeah. Yeah, because, like, Luann cannot, she cannot play the dozens with Bethany,

can't stand up to it. Yeah. So just to have something in your pocket. Okay, we're going to get into ratings right away here. One second.

Oh, I wanted to bring up, there's one more weird, thing. Yeah. Oh, I'm so sorry. Someone is buzzing me. There's a moment where

Sonia, I guess, realizes she needs to get a gift for her daughter who's away at school. And there's the sequence of like gathering junk with two children around her house. Like, it looks like just a bunch of stuff that she's had like from Amazon deliveries. She gives her like a phone charger, snack bars. And then there's a line.

I think it's Caesar or something is her stylist. and Sonia's talking about prison shows and it cuts to Caesar and he says I actually really like those shows they can be very creative and then it cuts to one of the like 18 year old interns looking very awkward very choice moment

there's some weird extras Sonia has always had just a weird rotating roster of interns but also the party at the beginning of the first episode where the girl is dressed as Elsa, the caviar server. So funny. I don't know where they got this girl, but she just stands out so much.

That was odd. Amazing. And no one got her new clothes after Bethany requested it either. Yeah, she just said to do that. But no, that's a great. That's a great point, Sean. Because like, Sony is so good that no matter what she's doing, we want to see her. And that's why it's like a shame that she wasn't there.

But at least when we get a breakout like her at home alone scene, it's still super good. And it's a nice break from the eerie chaos of the manner, right, or whatever. So she's just so wonderful. And seeing those interns, God, man, if I could have, like, what I would give to reorganize my life to be able to be a Sonia Morgan intern for the, like, average span of like six weeks that they all work for her. Wow. That was beautiful. Imagine the secrets that they are taking to the grave. I love, like, awkward side characters are my favorite thing about Bravo.

Like, if they have, like, they go to an event and there's, like, a whiskey tasting guy or something who just looks like they don't want to be there. Yeah. And those two interns are, like, really high level for that. Yes. You know, what was the best example of that was recently. I think it was at the toothless, not, no, homeless, not toothless. Dinner? See, no one can say it.

No one can. What? Is it Beverly? This is Beverly Hills, right? Beverly Hills, yeah. And they were like- It sounds like a charity that would be on a rest of development. Yeah, it was like Portia de Rossi's Doberman ears.

Iconic content. That was just last season. You should look it up. There's lots of clips, lots of reenactments. I think I'm right, right? I think it was that dinner. And they were like actually from the charity. Or maybe it was a different charity.

But they were the absolute best, like, normal people that you would just, pan to and they were just like because the ladies were going off like not even dissimilar to this kind of level and they were just like how do I get out of here oh my god it was amazing i love the idea of having like no context on these shows and like just not being prepared for the level of dysfunction that is going to be be there for these crazy uh crazy scenes i think serving an event for those people would be so cool So we're going to do things a little bit differently today in terms of how we do our housewives ratings. Instead of going through each housewife and everyone giving them a rating out of 10,

we're all going to have an allocated number amount of points that we are able to distribute to each of the housewives that we see fit. So we're just going to go around the table. the first person is going to give points, any number of points, to a housewife of their choice, and then the rest of us have the opportunity to add more points. Sandy and I each have 23 points. Sean has 24 points that we can allocate. Sean, who do you want to start with in terms of assigning points? We've got to start with Bethany, I think.

I got to throw 10 of them down on Bethany right away. All right. Ten points on Bethany. Such a strong performance. Yeah, I think that that is, you know, 10 points. I would throw another 10 down on Bethany of my points. I think it's pure poetry, what we're seeing. It's ballet. It is just one of the best pieces of reality TV that I have ever seen. So, yeah, I'm going to give her another 10 points there. that leaves 50 points up in the air between all of us. Sandy, do you want to assign any points to Bethany?

I'm just doing a lot of math right now in my head. Very stressed. That's why we're trying this out on the Christmas episode to work out the flaws. Okay. I'm going to get, I mean, Bethany deserves some points for me here, but I can't give her a whole 10.

Yeah, well, so this is cum laude. So you could put another like 20 on Luan to even her like even it up if you wanted. You'd have less points remaining to disperse over the lot, the remainder of the women. Okay. I have a question about this, Craig. Yeah. Are we aiming to like have our person win or like have the most equitable division based on what we think about the show?

I don't know what we're trying to do here to be honest. That's okay. That's okay. I'm just thinking out loud. I'm thinking out loud. But, okay. Yeah. It's good. It's a work in progress. I'm in a, okay, but like, is it, is it like wrong of me to give Bethany points? Because you guys have given her such absurd amounts of points already. Like, is that in good conscience? Can I even do that? Let's do it. Let's try it out. Let's see. I'm going to give her five. Can we give her five? Okay. Okay. Sandy, who, who else would you like to give some points with? You've got the most remaining. I'm going to give Luan. I'm going to give Luan 10. All right. I would also like to assign some points to Luan.

I don't have as many remaining, but I will give her a five here. Sean, do you have any points that you want to assign Luan? Yeah, Luan definitely deserves some because, like, without Luan, Bethany doesn't get 10. I would say Luan would be, I'll give her six. All right. Okay, so we have eight points each remaining. I feel like Durinda needs some points. I'm going to give her another four points.

Anyone else have some points they want to donate the Durinda cause? Absolutely. I would double up four on Durinda. She has like a really good disappointed mom energy throughout here that is a real tearjerker for me. Absolutely. And she's made this eerie haunted house that is the setting for this whole thing. And she keeps it up with her own ghostly haunting energy.

So I'll give her five. Five. Five. And we get, I made it nice. Like that's an iconic. That's iconic. Yeah. So I'm wearing the drunk drawn hoodie.

Oh, nice. Perfect. Perfect. Okay, so we have a total of 11 points remaining here. Sean, who else would you like to sprinkle some points on? I would do two on Sonia. I think Sonia was like, even if it's mostly comedic relief, very, very welcome in this whole arc. Okay, yeah, I'll give Sonia one of my remaining points here.

Sandy, do you have any that you want to give her? Yeah, I'm going to give her all my remaining points. Oh, wow. Okay. I think Sonia did great. No, I love Sonia and she was wronged and she still gave us amazing content. Okay. I've got the most remaining.

I've got three remaining and I want to give two of them to Carol. Sean, would you like to put any of your points on Carol? No, I think I would put both of my remaining once on a remote. Romona. I think Ramona's a pretty good facilitator throughout this one. And there is, I don't think I brought it up, but there's a moment in the first of the three episodes where Ramona's ploy to make everything seem cool with Derinda is to really aggressively offer caviar.

That really tickled me. I love how much caviar Ramona like scooped onto her plate as well. Like it was an unreasonable amount. And I can only identify like what a reasonable amount. mount of caviar is from watching these shows, but it was like, it was a mountain. And then there was that- Little pancakes? Yeah.

They didn't look very good. Like, they looked like they would ruin the cav- like, maybe they'd be good, like, in another context. But then there was that moment where someone called someone else out for like licking it off a used pancake. And then I was like, all I did was this. And then the whole pancake trumbled. That was so cute.

If I had watched that episode, I would give her points for that. Yeah. I feel like there's maybe like this experimental culture surrounding caviar in New York. Just because this most recent season of New York, we got to see like the caviar queen or whatever that weird business was. Was that the lingerie one? Yeah, it was during the lingerie episode where she came and served caviar on Pringle. So just Maybe they're just trying new things.

I would like to give my last point to Ramona. That brings our totals right now. And we'll have a chance to like reallocate. You can make one move to reallocate some points. That puts Bethany at 25 points, Luann at 21 points, Durinda at 13 points Sonia at six points

and Carol at two points Sean would you like to move any of your points Yeah I'm gonna move I'm gonna move one point off of Bethany to Jules purely for being so Asian and bringing board games Okay and

I I'm kind of happy with where my points are. Yeah, I think I'm going to move three points off of Bethany, and I would like to reallocate one to Carol. One and two to Ramona. Sandy, how about yourself? So now, if you can't see the board, we've got Luann and Bethany at 21 points,

each. We have next, Durinda at 13 points. Then we have Sonia at six, Ramona at five, Carol at three, and Jules at one. I am good now that you guys made the right choice and made Luann and Bethany equal. I don't have to move any of my points. If I were to, I would move them to Sonia, but there's not really anything I can take away from anyone else. So I'll leave them as is. Okay. Yeah, I, I am pretty happy with how this how this shook out i think that this seems like a reasonable rating here um maybe carol is a little underrated in my opinion i feel like you know we got her throwing a fit about the the pedophile stuff and we got the iconic text message with i'm sorry i called you a pedophile that's a lot at you know that's that's that's more luan and romona so yeah i'm not mad about

this overall rating. I like it. Was Carol the one who clocked that only very rich people put wallpaper in the closets? Yeah. Yeah, as a mark of wealth. Yeah. I appreciate that. Awesome. Well, that concludes our Real Housewives, Berkshire's Christmas special. Do you guys have anything you want to go back and touch on before we close things out here? Oh, how much do you think the Santa cost? Like the one, the live one that she brings in to like spread Christmas cheer. Did Dorinda say that that was her sister? Yeah.

Oh, okay. Hopefully not a lot. Maybe her sister is a professional Santa. Yeah. I was hoping it was like someone from the neighborhood that they hired to bring her. Sandy, how about you? Do you have anything you want to go back on? No, but it was a real pleasure.

This is a holiday classic and I was so glad to delve. back into that world. Yeah, totally. Well, thank you guys so much for doing this. This was a lot of fun. We're going to be taking a break until the new year, but we'll be back after the new year. So do you guys want to let everyone know where they can find you? We'll start with you, Sean.

Oh, I can't be found. I just want to plug a holiday cheer and spirit. All right. Sandy, how about yourself? I am at Corporal Curios on Institutional. If you want to see some weird hair art and my adventures in making Christmas puddings. Oh, nice. Well, that's been Bravo Outsider.

I'm your host, Craig Midwinter. You can find me on LinkedIn, I guess. Mostly just follow our socials on Instagram, TikTok, Twitter. We're at Bravo Outsider. Subscribe to us on YouTube. That's the big one that we're working on right now. So go and check that out. And leave us a rating and review on your podcast platform of choice.

Until next week, keep on wiping.