Oscars Outsider - Shoutout to Dr. Pepper w/ Zac Frazier (RHOSLC S04E09. RHOBH S13E03. RHOM S06E02)

Episode Date: November 14, 2023

Welcome to the Bravo Outsider Podcast! Join hosts Craig Midwinter and Sandy Klowak along with special guest @ZacFrazier for an episode packed with insights and analysis on the latest episodes of the Real Housewives of Salt Lake City S04E09, the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills S13E03, and the Real Housewives of Miami S06E02. 📺 In This Episode: We're diving deep into the drama and dynamics of the Real Housewives. First up, we dissect the heated confrontation in Salt Lake City between Monica and Lisa, where Monica's behavior mirrors her troubled relationship with her mother. We also explore the intriguing conflict over Mormonism between Heather and Lisa, shedding light on their differing perspectives. Transitioning to Beverly Hills, we delve into the buzz surrounding Sutton's unexpected exit from the Magic Mike live show. Was she truly offended, or was there another reason behind her departure? Wrapping up in Miami we discuss Geurdy's shocking news, the slick production values and more! 📺 In This Episode: 🍸Featured Housewives: RHOSLC: Lisa Barlow, Heather Gay, Meredith Marks, Whitney Rose, Monica Garcia, Angie Katsanevas, with Mary Cosby RHOBH: Kyle Richards, Erika Girardi, Dorit Kemsley, Garcelle Beauvais, Crystal Kung Minkoff, Sutton Stracke, Annemarie Wiley RHOM: Guerdy Abraira, Lisa Hochstein, Julia Lemigova, Nicole Martin, Alexia Nepola and Larsa Pippen, Kiki Barth, Adriana de Moura, Marysol Patton 📣 Stay Connected: Find Zac Frazier on Youtube at https://www.youtube.com/@ZacFrazier Find Zac Frazier on X https://twitter.com/ZC_FRZR Check out Zac's video Essay on Magic Mike XXL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nP_lItbhz2U Find Sandy Klowak on Instagram at ⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/corporealcurios⁠⁠ 📖 Credits Music by FASSounds from Pixabay

Hello and welcome to the Bravo Outsider Podcast. I'm your host Craig Midwinter. Joining me today is Sandy Kloak. Sandy, how's it going? It's going well. Awesome, glad to hear. And we're very pleased to be joined by Zach Frazier. I'm the king of this shit because I always get the royal flush.

That's good. That's good. Yeah, that's good. Yeah, that's good. Yeah. That's great. What was your inspiration for your tagline? I was taking a shit.

And I was like, you know what? That'd be funny. You know, I was trying to think of like sort of, yeah, punniness was kind of a common one. I had another one I wanted to go with. I don't know if you know the band, the Silver Jews. They're like a 90s indie rock kind of group related to pavement, if you know that band. Yeah, yeah, for sure. But one of their famous lines is in 1984, I was hospitalized for approaching perfection.

So that would be my alternate one. Really, really stoked to have you here. So I stumbled upon one of your video essays, and this is like just ended up being perfect timing because you did a video essay about, about Magic Mike, and you did an amazing exploration of like masculinity, positive masculinity within the film. And it's also just like a really like heartfelt love letter to the film. And one of the things that you talk about that really kind of resonated with me was like how it does a great job of like exploring themes kind of subtly. And also like it approaches character development through this natural approach to dialogue and conversation.

And like when you were talking about that, I was like, oh, I need to get him to watch housewise with me. So I reached out and I'm so I'm so happy that you could be here and join us for this. and it happens to be an episode that is heavily featuring Magic Mike Live, Las Vegas. Yeah, I was like, is this, could you have known? Was this on purpose? So going into this, what sort of, what was your context for reality TV? So I've watched a decent amount. I was a TV kid, you know, born 1995.

So we watched a lot of television in my house. And I had two older sisters. One was 10 years older. The other was like four. So they, you know, like reality TV was on. Like Bachelor would be on sometimes. But it was mostly like the trashy MTV VH1 like love competition stuff, you know. Oh, yeah.

Like rock of love and flavor of love. You know, I was raised on that kind of stuff. And, and then, you know, like, I was, I watched some of the be early days of like keeping up with the Kardashians because I would like, like literally, I was like, I would watch everything. You know, that's how much TV I watch. I jump from Cartoon Network to to, to, you know, true Hollywood story episodes. And and yeah, reality TV was was part of the rotation. So like I'm not unfamiliar with reality television. But for a while, once like, you know, streaming kind of took over, I wasn't watching TV as much. I didn't need to channel flip to whatever was on. So I didn't, you know, I didn't gravitate towards reality TV until sort of recently, you know,

when I was making videos more commonly as I'm not frequently doing that as much anymore, I wanted to make a video on The Bachelor specifically because I kind of thought, like as someone who's, I'm someone interested in like polyamory. Okay. Yeah. You know, a relationship philosophy.

And I was kind of interested in like shows that explore people who, you know, are like having multiple relationships, but also have to choose one. Like, you know, whittle it down to monogamy. So I never like fully ended up doing that.

But I did watch like three seasons of The Bachelor and took very detailed notes. So I was. I was deep into that and The Bachelorette. I watched one of those. That's a really interesting idea because after saying that, it seems obvious that it makes sense that you would be able to do like a read of The Bachelor and The Bachelorette through a polyamorous lens, but not something that I had like obviously thought of as like the first like place to go.

So yeah, I'd definitely be curious to hear your thoughts on that. Maybe someday. Yeah. Awesome. So we had a lot of Housewives episodes to choose from this week. We said we're going to talk about Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, Real Housewives of Salt Lake City. And then I'm not sure if you caught Real Housewives of Miami or not. Awesome.

I watched it all. I'll do my homework. Awesome. Did any of these kind of stand out to you as, like more compelling than the others? So I think, um, like I'm, my AMI was the most cinematically interesting to me. Like, yeah, in terms of the craft of like the shot composition and like,

it was like kind of insane. I was like, these are like really like they, they're just in the depth of field and like tracking shots and transition. I know that's like a weird thing to focus on, but, um, that one like was kind of compelling to watch. in terms of just like how they're making it. Yeah. But in terms of, I guess like, um, you know, plot or characters, I think Salt Lake City had a,

had a lot going on. Um, not that Beverly Hills didn't, but, um, I feel like Salt Lake City had had a lot more to chew on, maybe. Awesome. Yeah. Let's, let's dive into Salt Lake City then. Uh, what were your, what were your highlights here? What actually, let's start with your first impressions of each of the characters that you

were introduced with. Oh, God. Okay. Well, I'd say like in this episode, like the main characters are like Monica, Lisa and Heather, right? Like they're the ones who have like the most going on. Like I know Whitney, you know, has like her child's birthday party and, you know, a jewelry reveal. But those are kind of just backdrops to other people's drama. But yeah, I guess I'm trying to think.

Monica is a bit kind of immature, like, especially in her fight with Lisa, like, you know, they're going at each other a bit, yeah, childishly, like the way she's mocking her. That's kind of how, like, I know Monica, you know, like, I'm sure the stuff with her mom is real, you know, important to her, but, you know, she can be catty, it feels. Yeah, that. Oh, sorry. No, it's interesting that you kind of zoned in on the word. childish because it like that definitely characterizes her approach to this but I think like

one of the strongest themes throughout Salt Lake City this season and and especially in this episode is this like it's kind of looking at the at motherhood and the relationship between like mother and their their child through a lot of different like lenses throughout this season and how how and Monica's story it is like central to that like she has such a complicated relationship with her mother and to see her budding heads with Lisa and really regressing into like this childish state um i thought was uh a really interesting kind of manifestation of like how she handles conflict being so tied to her relationship that she has with her mother because that's the person that she's used to having to fight all the time.

So she reverts to being the child that is fighting her mother. And I found it really interesting to see that crop up when she was fighting with Lisa. So the fight, like the, I didn't see the previous episode, but I saw some footage and where they put Heather's head over a plant, which is a classic edit. was was the fight similar like but like the one that lisa and monica have and the one lees or monica and her mother have um it's oh it's not super similar it's so we're trying to really get a read monica's a brand new housewife so we don't have the same context that we have of the other women on this cast we're just kind of getting to know her and she's getting an edit that is like very sympathetic. It's painting her as very honest and her like her, um, conflict

with her mother like, Sam's back from when she was a child. She's got like severe abandonment issues and, um, her mother just like comes across like very much like a narcissist. Um, so there's a lot of like deep seated conflict that her and her, her mother have. And the main like fight that we see this season between Monica and her mother revolves around Monica bringing her mom to an event that Angie hosted this Greek Easter that she had. And her mother not standing up for her in a fight and being like apologetic on Monica's behalf and just like not being her defender. And so that's another like conflict that, you know, has a lot more context within there.

relationship and their past and you can see how, you know, it might be something that you could blow off if it was kind of a one-time thing, but it clearly doesn't seem to be, it seems to be like a pattern. And that's what Monica's really upset about. Yeah. Now, do we think Lisa has any grounds whatsoever to say the thing she's been saying in terms of like how she thinks Monica is using this abuse to abuse. Is there any, you know, truth to that, do we think? I mean, I, the sense that I get, just like my personal reaction and, you know, obviously this is very much colored by the lens that the editors, you know, present the content with. But it seems to me very authentic. Like, Monica comes across as very authentic, not just in this conflict,

but also, you know, the spectrum of housewives that I have seen, you know, present this image of themselves in front of the camera. It varies from being, like, extremely phony to very authentic. And Monica is definitely on the authentic side of the spectrum in terms of how she comes across. Whether that's true or not, I don't know. I feel like we haven't seen enough of her to make a final judgment on that. but her mother also seems very inauthentic and reminds me a lot of a housewife Ramona Singer who is very much a selfish, self-centered narcissist personality. Okay.

Yeah. Did you have any other highlights from this episode? Let's see. One thing I just wanted to comment real quick. I was kind of like not taken aback, but it was just like kind of jarring like the talking head sections. Like just how like it felt like a green screen, I think. And like especially Monica,

she's wearing this like this like extra like extravagant like ball gown almost with these puffy shoulders. Like she's all made up. It was just like I feel like when you watch like a bachelor, you know, that's where I'm coming from. Right. And it's like those I feel like they try to make those sort of authentic and maybe in the moment, at least appear that way.

And so it's interesting just be like, oh, no, this is just they're in a different place. They've had their own makeup done for this specific shoot. That was just kind of a fun, jarring little bit of the show. I'm trying to think. Lots of Dr. Pepper shoutouts in this one. I'm appreciative of that. I was trying to figure out what was going on with that. Yeah, like even at the.

the jewelry thing. I'm like, what? Who's serving Dr. Pepper at this kind of a bet? I mean, the kids, it makes sense. Is there caffeine in Dr. Pepper? If it's caffeine-free, then that might explain it because Salt Lake City would have us like a big Mormon population. There's caffeine in that. Not a lot. Probably like 50 milligrams, but per can. Oh, yeah. Weird. I guess like Heather was interesting to me in that, like, coming in without context, I was like, is she Mormon? No. she's not. She's not Mormon. She's like happier her daughter isn't doing Mormon things, but she

really cares what Lisa's doing. So that was kind of an interesting conflict. It kind of reminds me of as an ex-Catholic. You know, I grew up, you know, raised in Catholicism or whatever. Like, I do have these moments where like, like, someone

is like who, like, says they're Catholic and doesn't do it right. I'm like, you know, that's not actually how you should be doing it. And it's like, what do you care? You don't even believe in God. So I kind of get her. I get where she's coming from. But it was interesting to see that sort of that conflict happening.

I don't think it was like super explored in this episode. You know, there's like the she didn't get to go to the brunch. Yeah. That was kind of the big thing. But they sort of, they seem fine. You know, it didn't blow up or anything. So that was good. Yeah.

It seemed like we almost got a little bit of resolution to that conflict between Heather and Lisa at Whitney's. party or it seemed like there was a little bit of peace made. But yeah, the relationship that Heather has with the Mormon church is very complicated. And she's she's left the church, but still very much concerned about the rules of what it means to be a Mormon and what it means to not be a Mormon. and the fact that Lisa doesn't really care that much and is able to get away with not adhering to those rules as much as Heather feels like she should is really interesting. Did Heather do something wrong and get kicked out or she just left of her own accord?

Yeah, she left. Sandy, you can maybe correct me if I'm wrong here, but I believe that she's, she left when she divorced her husband. And yeah, and I think that her family just like, and all her support network really sided with him and the church. And yeah, I think that's where it comes from, but I'm not entirely sure. I kicked out. Did she get kicked out when she got divorced because you can't get divorced? I can't remember.

But it's definitely possible. Yeah. I'm not sure. But I know that, so Monica similarly has, like, she was raised in the church. And I think she got kicked out, but her affair partner and her husband didn't get kicked out, even though they divorced. I'm not really sure how that all works. Oh, God. Shockingly, the women get the worst end of the stick.

Yeah. Yeah. In Mormonism? What? I know. My God. Did you have any other highlights in Salt Lake City, Zach? Oh, wait.

Well, two lines I kind of thought were funny. Monica's saying to Heather, like, literally ever since I said Lisa's materialistic and Heather's like, she's ignored you? And it's like, yeah. Well, don't do that. And then the very end of the episode, I think, I didn't watch. to the very end. But like for the next episode,

I think Heather's asking Mary, like, do you think I look inbred? And then she says, I do. That's a beautiful clip. Yeah, have fun next episode. You can be there too. And that's coming from. You can watch for the rest of the season for the rest of your life too.

Oh, my God. We'll see. We'll see. And that's coming from Mary, who is married to her, like step grandfather. So like she does have some authority on like what it means to be in bread, I guess. It's step, I guess, but like, we got no Mary this episode. I'm sad for Zach. Yeah, like you were talking about it last episode. I'm like, who the fuck is Mary? I was like,

oh, she's in like a flashback saying someone flew out of a car and died. And I'm like, what? She's got some sound bites. She doesn't like to go to any event. And she just had a fight with Whitney. So I guess she was not. not eligible for being involved in these. She couldn't come to Bobby's party. She was going to say some weird shit. Exactly. Sandy, what were your highlights from Salt Lake City?

Okay, Salt Lake City, I had a slow start. I wasn't too impressed with the episode. I was actually, my husband was in the room. He never watches with me. But he was playing his computer game on the couch because we have a TV now in our living room. New, exciting. development over here. So he, I was kind of disappointed

because he was sort of paying attention. I'm like, this one's not really as good as usual. But at the end, the fight with Monica and Lisa really made it. Made it great. And that was throughout, throughout, but there was a build. So they started fighting at the roller rink, which I have to say

roller rink is a weird place to have a Hawaiian themed party. Like no windowless, dark pit of a place. So that kind of freaked me out a bit. So, but yeah, the buildup with Monica and Lisa was amazing. As you said, Zach, Monica is extremely childish, and she seems to know exactly how to get under the skin of someone like Lisa and perhaps her own mother. So that was really fun to watch. Lisa got in some jabs.

I can't remember when, but she said, like, no one wants to be your mother or something. And that was pretty harsh. So they were going low. I did not appreciate the age shaming that Monica. was doing to Lisa, but otherwise thoroughly enjoyed that fight. Yeah. And like just the fact that they could not keep it together at this sound bath. As I've said before to Craig, this is my absolute favorite thing when like parties are ruined by absolutely absurd fighting. So I really enjoyed it. And there was this moment when they were talking and I think Whitney had just said,

everyone please be quiet speaking specifically to them. And you could see them both stop for a second. But Monica had just gotten the last word and you see this like look on Lisa's face. She's like, Monica, you just acting crazy. And she just couldn't stop herself. You just see it coming out of her. And I just thought that was beautiful. And I found Angie's, Angie's involvement in this little situation was really odd. And I really want your take on that, Craig.

Because she kept saying, like, I feel so uncomfortable. I'm just in the middle of this, guys. Like, you could walk away. No one needs you here. So I guess it was just like getting seen. But I thought that was so weird because she was just kind of there. And it was we didn't need her. But I mean, it was kind of fun that she was forcing herself into that.

So I loved it all. Yeah, I was kind of confused why she was sticking around there as well. My like my gut is always to be like, oh, because hostwives is such an information game. It's like she wants to be there to see like what comes out or like, you know, if there's going to be something that's going to impact her or someone like like, like, like, spews out something that she has said and like spills the beans on some shit talking that she's been doing but um it doesn't seem so far in the season that she really has any like secrets that she's kind of protecting that Lisa and Monica could potentially you know ruin so I don't know yeah I think you're right Sandy I think it was just to be like to have some screen time and

so that she wasn't just like awkwardly milling about because there wasn't anyone else there from from the cast aside from you know Whitney who is busy I what does Whitney think like imagine's like oh this is what they think is important not this whole jewelry event which again is a set for this fight you know it's like and she just has to stand there and take it and everyone in the room is like okay this yeah let it go let happen. This is the is the scene. That is. And there's a lot of pretty fake events that things happen at. So I feel like Whitney probably loves it. Whitney just loves chaos. I that's one of the things I appreciate about her is, you know, she is an agent of chaos and is constantly manipulating people

to do her bidding. She's actually, I think one of the only cast members on Salt Lake city that has that kind of calculated like chess players mentality when when it comes to approaching like being a housewife. She seems like she's the most calculated of the whole group. So I think that she would she would love it. I mean, it's it's more screen time for her brand. Like I don't think she cares as much about the people in the room as the people at home. And, you know, that fight guaranteed that this event is going to be shown. It's not just going to be, you know, a flashback to this, this party that she had that they're referencing at some point.

So I feel like she was, you know, she obviously had to seem displeased, but I think, I think she ultimately would be pretty satisfied with that. Okay. She left like rubbing her hands like, yeah. Yeah, exactly. Okay. Sandy, did you have any other highlights from Salt Lake City? No, I don't think so.

I'm good. Cool. Yeah. I think we covered most of like what I wanted to talk about. I thought that the relationship that Whitney has with her daughter is, it was just a really sweet scene of her kind of like watching her daughter like grow up in a moment like going through this glam process. I thought it was just a very like short aside, but I really loved seeing that especially because I think we're getting a lot of dimension to Whitney as a character this season. We're seeing her trying to balance, you know,

her husband going back to work with and her like role as like assuming a lot more household responsibility. And, you know, that just kind of falling into her lap and being undiscussed with Justin and him, not really putting a lot of thought into just what gets put on on her plate while also trying to, you know, launch a new brand. And being a real housewife, a reality person is a job and being in season. So I think that we are seeing, we're getting a lot of layers to Whitney. And I just appreciated seeing that because I don't know, I feel like Whitney is very underrated. She's like my favorite on on this cast but i think that that's not really a sentiment that's shared across the fan base so being able to see um kind of a more well-rounded uh uh character evolve with whitney

is is something that i appreciated is she in more of the other episodes oh sorry yeah Whitney's like no Whitney's a like a like a presence throughout the show, but I think the fan base seems mostly a little, like, lukewarm. No one's, like, calling for her to be off the show, really, but

I also don't see her reference as being one of, like, the marquee housewives here. Like, the stars of Real Housewives of Salt Lake City, it seems to be like, it was like the Lisa Barlow show and, you know, I mean, prior to this season, it was the

Jen Shaw show, because, like, she was an icon and now she's in jail. So, um, but yeah, I, I think that Whitney has kind of like flown under the radar. So I'm,

uh, I'm liking seeing her kind of get a more elevated profile this, this season. Gotcha. Um, okay, let's, uh,

let's move on. Did you want to talk about, uh, Beverly Hills or Miami next, Zach? Well, whichever y'all, y'all,

y'all lead the way. I'm just here. I'm just riding the wave. All right. Yeah, let's jump into Beverly Hills. This is the one I'm most excited to talk about. Zach, what were your highlights from Beverly Hills?

Well, there was the centerpiece, the Magic Mike show. Although, I guess it was kind of the Sutton show, I suppose. Yeah. Maybe against her will. Um, I think, yeah, I guess there's this question that is she, did she leave because she was offended or did she leave because, well, why was she offended? Was she offended by the sexual acts or was she offended by not being chosen? Um, I, I, I don't know her well enough to know if she is telling the truth. And it's just because the, you know, the head and the crotch kind of moved. Did he rub? Or was he just kind of like down. there, you know, is he just near it? I forget. Yeah, I don't know. It's, uh, it's kind of like in stunt fighting where you have to like, if you're punching, you're kind of like punching across the access between the camera and yeah, it was, uh, stunt kind of lingus, I guess.

Gotcha. What was going on there? That was, that was too much for her. Um, yeah. So, as an outsider, what was your, what was your gut? Like, what do you think was Sutton's motivation? I don't know. I guess, God, I don't know. Like, well, I mean, they muddy the waters because that afterwards she's like saying like, I want to have sex twice a day and I've got all these sex toys. And I'm reading a, I'm reading the tantric book on sex. She's reading like, oh, what's the name of it? The, the Kama Sutra and shit.

Like, yeah, what do you like? It felt like almost a joke or something, like a setup and a payoff. It's like, oh, that's disgusting. But also watch me like masturbate. It's like, what the hell? You know, not that she does that, but. Yeah. So, yeah, I don't really know what to take away from it.

I mean, it seems unlikely that she was just upset for not getting taken down. And I guess, like, it was also the reputation thing. She was like, would a ballet board member or whatever, you know, be seen doing this kind of thing? Which in the third magic mic, um, There is a great performance at the very end where a ballet dancer is with Channing Tatum and do this amazing act in like water and they're sliding around and shit. So ballet dancers can be seen in that environment. It's all right. Not that she's the dancer, but whatever.

But yeah, so I don't know. What do you guys think? Yeah, Sandy. I'm curious your thoughts on this. I think she may be maybe a little of both. clearly she had some sort of interest in getting involved in this show. But it also may have overwhelmed her. And perhaps she was feeling a combination of some disappointment and guilt at that very disappointment that made it manifest in that exact way.

I wonder what the ballet that she's on the board of felt about her naming them several times. Probably didn't help with the reputation. I shouldn't say that, but the very concern she had. Yeah, I guess that it's she's she's a complex character and what I can say about her is she's acting authentically and is not not strategically here. So what we're seeing is is real, whatever I think at least. I don't know. What do you think, Craig? Yeah, I mean, this was my my favorite thing on Bravo this week was seeing this portrait of Sutton that we got.

I thought it was amazing. And, you know, I think that this, as a fan of Sutton, like as a host wife that I want to root for, I don't think this was a particularly great episode. And that's mostly because of the scene that we got early on where she's kind of like bossing around her assistant and not like handling things. Well, I think that paints her in a very like negative light. And it was interesting the choice to include that leading up to this. this fit that we got. But I think the journey that we've gotten for Sutton's character this season so far has been like she's clearly looking for to reinsert herself into the dating scene.

But ultimately what was going on here. It felt like she was she had a big decision that was that she was making during this episode. And that was do I wear the pants or like. Do I not wear the pants? And it was really like, do I go out in something that I'm going to feel like comfortable in and like feel more like I'm in my my skin? Or do I put the pants on because I want to get on stage? And she was trying to make a decision in terms of which is like where, how is she going to feel most desired? Like it was like, am I going to feel more desired?

if I'm going out in like clothes that I'm comfortable in, that I feel confident in, or if I wear something where I've got the opportunity to get pulled on stage and like be worship to use a word that you use in your video essay

by the performers on on stage in the magic mic. And I think she made this decision and immediately kind of like regretted it when she wasn't one of the first people to get pulled up and then was completely embarrassed and feeling rejected and undesired.

And we see her like curl up into like a ball and, um, you know, and, and self-destruct because people start asking her, oh, what's wrong? What's wrong? And that just like kind of makes things worse. It just piles on like she feels like, um, people know that she's uncomfortable and she has to come up with some sort of answer for it. And, you know, she just goes, she reaches. into her back pocket and like pulls out but the prudish response of you know thinking that this is

below me as like a southern you know um you know southern bell yeah exactly um and i think that she realized afterwards that you know she's going to come off as prudish and that's not like that's not who she really is or that's not the journey that she wants to be seen as being on and that's not the character that she wants to be and she immediately like goes hard in the other direction takes a like complete left turn and that's when she starts bringing up all of the like um you know i've got all these sex toys and i've been like reading all these books and you know leans hard in the other direction i think that that's why it felt like like you get whiplash trying to figure out what she was going through but this journey was like so

complicated and like so emotional for her that I just thought it was very like compelling. And I did feel sympathetic. But that is definitely undermined by how she treated her assistant at the beginning of this episode. It like does not set you up to be sympathetic towards her. Right. Well, I think her and Kyle going at it like I mean, there are both, I guess with what you've just said about sudden, it makes me a feel more. sympathetic, even if she was kind of mean to her assistant. But they're sort of going back and forth. And they're both like kind of misreading each other.

Like I guess, yeah, Kyle is like saying that Kyle is saying that Sudden is making a big deal out of this. And like she really wasn't like, I mean, by virtue of the fact that you're a real housewife on a show, like your emotional reaction unfortunately like is an action. you know, like even if it is just kind of like walking out of a place. Like she she didn't, I don't think she told anyone to come with her. She wasn't like, let's get out of here, guys, this sucks. She just left by herself as she says.

So Kyle is kind of misreading that. But Kyle is saying like, you just said it was about your reputation and like Sutton is like denying it like moments after having said these sorts of things. So yeah, it was definitely confusing. But I think given what you just said. it kind of makes more sense that sudden is just grasping, you know, and like trying to keep face, basically, after all that. So I think I was a little, you know, being a little harsh, but, you know, yeah.

Yeah, it's interesting because we don't see it in this episode, but Kyle is definitely going through her own journey with her relationship, her long-term relationship with her husband Mo. And it does seem like she's being very opportunistic to like pounce on Sutton and, you know, make a big deal out of this. I don't know what is fully motivating that, you know, antagonistic approach that she's taking with Sutton. But yeah, that also did stand out to me for sure. Yeah. It felt like kind of making a mountain out of a molehill, like on Kyle's side.

It's like, just let her go and not enjoy it. like it's it could have been fine you know um but that wouldn't have made for as interesting tv i realized so yeah and Kyle's approach to it was like I don't know it it brought out in me as a viewer like it was definitely like borderline bullying like she would not drop it but and she was like joking about it and um you know I laughed well watching it because it was humorous how she was like drilling into it but like to in retrospect be like, oh, yeah, she made me feel like one of the mean girls by like going in and like clearly just like laughing at someone that's prodding at someone that is having a hard time.

You know, that's a, that's an emotion that I had to resolve at the end of watching watching that scene. Yeah. Zach, did you have any other highlights from Beverly Hills? Let me see. Well, I mean, I guess like the final scene where, you know, the being in the hotel. one, Kyle working out, apparently that was like,

why would you do that? They didn't really, you know, it's not a big drama, but they're like, why would you work out on your vacations? Like, people do that. It's okay. Yeah.

It's not a big deal. I don't know why we're talking about this. It's fine. But then Garcel, you know, bringing up her son, I, very little context of what happened with that is brought into this. So I don't really know.

But she kind of brings up. up to the group that she doesn't trust them with her son talking about him or, you know, I don't know exactly what she doesn't trust them with, um, beyond speaking about it. But it did feel kind of to me like, like, this is kind of a weird time to bring this up. Like, and with her kind of argument with, uh, who was it that she was kind of Dorrit? Dorit. Yeah. Dorit.

Yeah. Um, like. Like, like, I think Doread is being a bit, uh, being kind of not great either, but like, if you are only just saying something so that people kind of accept it, it's like, like, that's what she just wants people to like acknowledge it. I was like, oh, well, then I guess you can just say it and then we'll move on. I don't know. Like, what are you supposed to do with like, oh, I don't trust you guys with my kids.

Yeah. Do you guys want to go get drinks? Like, what do you like, how do you react to that? You know, like that is, that is some pot stern kind of stuff. it feels like, I don't know what reaction you're going to get that you're going to be satisfied. I guess besides like, I'm sorry and I'll do better, which like Doreet kind of maybe tried, but obviously it was pretty defensive. So it wasn't like, you know, it wasn't wholehearted or anything.

Yeah, it definitely felt like Doreet was like, oh, I already paid for that. Like, I already bought that. I already gave you what you wanted for that. And now you're trying to like get more out of me. Yeah, I'm I'm interested to see where this goes because it definitely seems like they're at like an emotional deadlock here But yeah, it didn't that didn't even register to me that you know what what is Garcell trying to get out of this interaction like why bother bringing that up? Yeah, it just felt like here's a we need a little more for this episode come on Just say, you know, I don't know. Yeah.

Like, I don't know if they tell these people these things, but it felt like that. Yeah. Yeah, they do. Sandy, what were your highlights from this? It was interesting for me to compare sort of the narrative arc of this episode versus Salt Lake City, where this one had this big fight in the middle. And because of how, as we just, as you sort of laid out Sutton's. wanting to distance herself from her own behavior. It really ended in a whimper.

And she, the way we can see how Sutton is not strategic, like, she's already apologizing to people, like, 10 minutes after she had this outburst. Like, you need to, you need to play it out at least do your apology to her the next episode. Like, so she just, she, she doesn't think that way. And then Erica is not fighting with anyone anymore. So why are you on the show, Erica? Yeah. So I was very disappointed.

It sounds like Erica might be a little catty next episode. So we'll see about that whole thing. But it just really like it was, it was interesting. And then it just deflated. And I didn't really find the rest of the episode that interesting. Whereas Salt Lake City had a really good build. And I kind of started thinking it was a little dull. And it ended really well.

So that was kind of interesting to observe. And yeah, a bit of a letdown. So I will say, Erica did show. her immense flexibility in her legs. She did do that. Does she perform herself? Like, why isn't she doing this? Why isn't she on the magic mic?

She does. She's a pop star. Oh, okay. I didn't know that. Yes. Star is like using that term a little loosely. Okay. Yeah, but I do want to talk about Erica because this was very weird.

As someone who has watched the show to see. how Erica handles Sutton's, like, tantrum at her event. It was very uncharacteristic. Like, Erica's scrappy. Like, she will fight when the bell rings. So it was very strange. And I, like, couldn't help thinking about that scene that we got. I don't know if it was last week or maybe it was two weeks ago in the premiere where

Eric is with her therapist and her therapist was trying to explain to her what empathy was. I was like, oh, maybe she does have like some sort of like, I don't know, it seemed like a character trait that she was just like,

okay, I'm just going to turn off the like the fighting part of me. I'm just not going to like engage with things. And it almost makes me view any of her like, previous interactions as though they weren't emotionally motivated, like, you know, that she fakes having emotions because we have seen her like pour on the fake tears and like when she seems emotional, it does seem like very put on. But the fact that, you know, recently she like seems very confused at the concept of having empathy and for her to just be able to, you know, turn off that like

emotional switch and be like, okay, well, that's not going to bother me because I'm just not fighting right now. Then, you know, I'm not doing that. It does make me like feel very, um, I feel like I'm watching almost a robot, but or something that's programmed to interact in these, these situations. Um, she's just building up. You know what I mean? You've got to be like the Zen monk. It's like, nothing bothers me. And then something bothers her. And she's like, it is my time to fight. And then it will be a clash of the Titans. Episode 10, watch out for that one.

Yeah, looking forward to that. Yeah, I think that covers most of what I've got on Beverly Hills. Let's talk about Real Housewives of Miami. Zach, what were your thoughts on this cast? Let me see. I don't feel like I have a strong feeling on the... I mean, like Gertie is going through a lot. So, I mean, that moment, you know, where she talks about her breast cancer is like, I don't even know her.

And I'm like, oh, my God, this is hard to walk. Like, that was like a real genuine moment, which was like, I don't feel like I've ever experienced that in a reality television show, you know. Mostly because like these people are themselves. And like they actually, I mean, they're getting robbed. They're doing movies. They're going to jail, apparently. Yeah. And they can get, you know, cancer.

And like, it's, you know, reality is seeping in, you know. Yeah. And so you definitely feel for her there. So that was kind of the main thing. Like, I don't know, there's the gay brunch. Might have been fun. We didn't see a ton of that. Let me see.

Larsa likes her husband. Yeah, it was mostly, mostly, uh, gertie. I guess that was, that was like the center, center piece of this. Yeah, definitely. I thought like Gertie obviously is the most like emotionally compelling piece of this, this entire episode.

I thought that the way that it was presented, I don't know how I felt about how it was like cut together because it, like you said, it was, it was very emotional and very like real. The way that it was kind of intercut with the brunch where they were speculating about, You know, what's going on with Gertie and her health?

I don't, I could have probably done with that being treated another way. It was just like too adjacent to a very like emotionally weighted conversation. And I actually think that Bravo typically when they are dealing with heavy subject matter, they do a fairly good job of handling it. And this was, I don't know, it definitely like, because of the proximity. of the scene where they're, you know, speculating on Gertie's, like, what's going on. And someone is like, oh, you know, I hope it's not something with her health.

And then, you know, immediately getting this reveal. I thought that it almost played too much as a, like, a plot point. They're definitely going in hard on the irony, right? Like what you just said. And then, like, at the end with her fight with, uh, who is? is it. Larsa. Yeah.

Like, like she doesn't reveal why she's sad. And Larsa is just like, should I cry too? It's like, if you just knew like, you know, and like it's like a next episode,

I'm sure we're going to get that reveal. But it's like, yeah, they're definitely playing with the irony of like, of people not knowing. Which might be a little callous for, for breast cancer. Yeah.

And I think like, so they did release a, a preview, like the first seven minutes of the next. episode. And so I do think that that reveals out there. I haven't watched it yet, but I've seen just, you know, the reaction on social media. And it seems like Larsa does not have a very comforting response to it. So it could be that the like the scene that we got prior to that was trying to like foreshadow this, you know, this perspective that some of the women are going to have. over the course of the season towards Gertie as a result of this. Yeah, I'm curious to see how this all plays out. Yeah.

Sandy, what were your highlights from? Yeah. I was just going to build on the like the Gertie and Larsa thing. Like, Larsa was a really came off as an asshole in that last scene. And honestly was hard to watch because you know, like I wouldn't have told her either if she's talking to me like that. So it felt very real. And I'm not a, I'm not a Larsa fan. I don't know if the general population thinks of her.

I think they think she shouldn't be dating a younger man, which I don't have a comment on that. We don't care about that. But anyway, well, she didn't seem like a great friend. I think the criticism of Larsa's relationship isn't like so much about the age difference. It's that it's Michael Jordan's son. And she was previously like, like she was previously married to Scotland. Buddy Pippin, who was, you know, who was Michael Jordan's linemate on the Bulls.

So I think that that's where a lot of the criticism is. Someone said that in one of those. It's kind of iconic. Yeah, I, I support that. I don't have a problem with that. Someone, one of those little clips said something like, this child that you used to babysit. And I don't know if that was used rhetorically or actually. But if actual, then that's.

even more iconic. She gives me a bad vibe though. So anyway. And then I had a, I was on a very much more superficial criticism of those two scenes being cut together, the brunch and the happy hour. How is a brunch and a happy hour happening at the same time? It's who has messed up their times very badly or it's not happening at the same time.

And thus why do this whole thing where it seems like it's happening at the same time? So that annoyed me. Because it's cool. because it's storytelling, you know, it kind of impressed me. I was like, I've never seen like, I don't think I've seen like two conversations so perfectly intercut where it's kind of like, you know, like the thoughts lead to each other, you know, what they're talking about. So yeah, it did. Like I said, Miami, like people are making that show or going fucking hard. Like, yeah.

Like, God, all the light, the color effects and yeah, and the transitions and so. I think that's mandatory for Miami. That was like, it's like CSI Miami. So much, so much color. They need to start with the same song where he like takes off his sunglasses. I was like, is that the who? Yeah, probably. Bobo O'Reilly.

Is it Bob O'Reilly? Anyway. Yeah, I think it's Bob O'Reilly on the Miami one. They're all, they're all who different who songs, I think. Oh, okay. Yeah, I think we covered most of what I wanted to talk about with Miami. Emmy as well. I really like, oh,

the other thing that I wanted to talk about was Adriana or Adriana when she's talking about Todd and Alexia's relationship and this party that they were at. I just love

what Adriana does. She does not give a fuck. She is all about the host wife game. She doesn't give a shit who she's like gonna piss off or like you know poke and prod she just wants to stir shit up and i love it i think like you know for her to be like oh todd it looks like you and alexia are going to have to like set some time to work on your relationship or something like that that is like one thing

that is like you know that is great like housewife ship like but then to bring that back to a group, just put it out there that she said it and release that information and just like not give a shit about like who sends it back to Alexia. She just wants it out there. She wants to cause chaos. And I, you know, I love it. I appreciate that. Do we believe it? Do we believe Todd said right on the nose?

Yeah. Yeah, there's no way that he said right on the nose. It's definitely like bullshit. But the fact that she is like so confidently sewing chaos and, you know, she just like kind of made peace with Alexia by showing up at a brunch waving a white flag of surrender. And then, you know, to immediately come and commit an act of war is so brazen. Yeah, she's good. She deserves to be a full housewife. Yeah, totally.

Um, yeah, I think that that about covers it. Did you guys have any other final thoughts on Miami? Um, one other one other thing is I am super into a housewife being overly obsessed with their new partner. So I love that for Larsa, especially because I'm not a huge fan of her. So she's having a welcome back party after he was gone for a week. And this is giving me like Sheena with, uh, Rob, whatever his name was vibes from band. So I'm, yeah, I'm excited for that. I wonder how fast that Michael Jordan's son can put up a TV.

We'll have to find out. I'm sure. I'm sure it's six. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for doing this, Zach. Do you want to let everyone know where they can find you? Yeah, if you go on YouTube, you can look up Zach Frazier, Z-A-C-space, F-R-A-Z-I-E. ER. I have some videos up there, kind of gaming focus mostly. Like the Magic Mike video is kind of an anomaly, to be honest. But there's that. And then Twitter, ZC underscore F-R-Z-R. I don't tweet a lot because, you know, Twitter is what it is right now and makes me sad. But those are kind of the bigger places. And then Instagram, that's kind of a

personal thing, but if you want to see photos I take, sure, look up Zach Frazier on Instagram. Why not? But yeah. Awesome. Thank you so much. Sandy, how about yourself? I'm on Instagram at Corporial Curios.

Well, that's Bravo Outsider for this week. I'm Craig Midwinter. If you want to look me up, you can, I don't know, add me on LinkedIn or like follow my GitHub or something like that. You're not going to find much interesting. But you can find Bravo Outsider on pretty much every social media. at Bravo Outsider. Subscribe to us on YouTube

or leave us a rating and a review that helps us out a ton. Until next week, keep on whiffing.