Oscars Outsider - Summer House S9E11 & The Valley S2E01 Recap/Analysis | Bravo Outsider Podcast

Episode Date: April 22, 2025

We want to hear your takes! Give our hotline a call and leave a message with your thoughts on what's going on in the Bravo universe at 1-833-927-0178.Join us on the Bravo Outsider Podcast as we embark on a thrilling exploration of the latest episode of Summer House🥂 About Bravo OutsiderThe Bravo Outsider Podcast offers an outside perspective on Bravo shows like The Real Housewives, unlike any other Bravo podcast! We focus on the artistic value of these shows while providing strategic analysis of the social game at the core of the Bravo docu-soap. We love thick literary references and diving into themes before diving into the drama!Chapters00:00 - Intro01:07 - Summer House S09E11 Recap34:04 - The Valley S02E01 Recap🍸Featured Bravolebs:Summer House: Kyle Cooke, Lindsay Hubbard, Carl Radke, Amanda Batula, Paige DeSorbo, Ciara Miller, Gabby Prescod, Jesse Solomon, West Wilson, Lexi Woood, Imrul Hassan, Craig ConoverThe Valley: Brittany Cartwright, Jax Taylor, Kristen Doute, Luke Broderick, Danny Booko, Nia Booko, Janet Caperna, Jason Caperna, Jesse Lally, Michelle Saniei Lally📣 Stay Connected:Find Bravo Outsider:On your podcast platform of choice: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/bravo-outsider/Instagram: ⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/bravooutsiderTikTok: ⁠⁠https://www.tiktok.com/@bravooutsiderhttps://www.bravooutsider.comFind Craig Midwinter:chess.com: https://www.chess.com/member/craigjmidwinterFind Dylan Ferguson:Substack: https://dylanferguson.substack.com/📖 CreditsMusic by FASSounds from Pixabay#TheValley #summerhouse #bravotv #bravo #realitytv #RealHousewives.

But I was delighted to see Tom Schwartz show up. And apparently we're going to get him in Summer House next episode two. I think they said the, when they show the next episode bit. So like a double wabby of Tom Schwartz. That's what gets everybody excited. I definitely, definitely was whooping and clapping. That's my, that's my chicken jockey when Tom Schwartz shows up and sits down and goes,

I don't know, man. It's, it's tough. Yeah. Nothing more thrilling than that. You know, I was excited too, but also bring Sandoval, you cowards. Like, put him back on our screen. Like, don't be a coward. Bring him back.

Let's go. Hello and welcome to the Bravo Outsider Podcast. I'm your host, Craig, Midwinter. We're talking about Summer House and the premiere of the Valley, which were absolutely fantastic. I think we're going to dive into Summerhouse first. Dylan, do you want to just give a quick little recap about what happened here? Yeah, what did happen on Summer House? We start things off with people kind of filing back into the house after their night out. A little bit of tension continuing to burble up to the surface between Lexi and Jesse, quietly disagreeing a bit. and not so quietly is Emeril's new girlfriend and Emeril a boning in the room next to a stressed-out

page, which leads us into the following morning where Imeral is kind of confronted over his countless women that he's bringing into the apartment in Boning. Page continues to doubt her relationship in discussions with Sierra. And I guess that that leads us into our finale, which is sort of a soft launch for Browell. Bravo's next spin-off cancer house where, oh my God. It's sort of benefit dinner for a place for cancer patients to live, hosted by Jesse, of course, where the most edible thing that happens there is that Jesse tells Sierra just

stop touching him. Really fantastic moment there. But yeah, the body of this episode, I thought, the portion that took place of the summer house the next morning, I really, really loved how this was done. just like feel the hangover energy in this host is one of the things that somehow summer house is able to like capture this hungover feeling that you get in the summer after a night of like partying too hard and yeah are still almost like dizzy watching it it's it's kind of going from like

moment to moment and really capturing this like kind of annoyed like eager to get back home back to the city energy everyone is like a little bit cranky but still there's a bit of celebratory mood still hanging over from the night before. It's still the weekend, but everyone is really like pickling in the alcohol from the night before. And I just really thought that this is something that Summer House really captures well. Like on Vanderpump rules, we see them engaging in a lot of partying and really indulging. But we don't as often see the tension. the next morning, or at least it doesn't come to my mind. Summerhouse, we always get that,

that kind of feeling of being hung over and wanting to get back home and just, like, rot the rest of the day away and that kind of anxiety that you feel when you do that. I think that Summer House is really able to capture that especially well. And it was a master class in that, in particular, this episode, from my perspective, at least. I completely agree. not only are they so good at showing the morning after, they're so good at showing people coming in at the end of the night. And we have a great example of this episode.

Like it's such a fun montage of like of people coming in. That kind of like security cam footage of Jesse and Lexi having their kind of drunken argument. A great moment where West and West and Kyle are coming in and both like really drunk and can't figure out how the door works. or can't remember the combination or whatever the hell's going on there. And, you know, Ossebo would have them just eventually pounding on the door and Lindsay opened it yet. And, and West just just like goes in for a hug. Well, Kyle just starts doing like Greek statue poses, which is, I don't know,

who knows what he's doing. And then I also absolutely love how how well he embodied, Kyle embodies that, that feeling of coming home really wasted at the end of the night. We have this great footage of him stumbling around the kitchen, just like, kicking boxes and stuff, stopping his face, just eating everything that he can find. And then he falls asleep out of chair with his hands and his shorts pockets and is still there in that chair with his heads and his shorts pockets with his head flung back, snoring up towards the roof.

The fact that we get the time lapse on that scene to transition to the next day, Like we see the sun, the light in the room changing based on on the sun is just like fantastic. So good. Yeah. Yeah. So good. The whole transition from coming from the bar to like being hug over the next morning is just beautifully captured. Yeah.

Totally. And you mentioned they're like coming into the house. I love how the next day we kind of have the people who were awake or half awake or half asleep kind of blurring the memory of what the best. banging sound was, was it, you know, Kyle and West trying to get in or was it Emeril and his like new friend as I think it was labeled. And I just really love how that was treated. Just this trying to piece together what happened at the end of the night. I thought was amazing.

Yeah, yeah, totally. Is there anything else that stands out to you about how this episode was presented? Now, we'll dig into a little bit more about Jesse and Lexi fighting on their way back in, because I do really like the way that, again, another great example of using that kind of stolen footage of just these, these little shots of things that they clearly do not expect to be seen or to be heard. Like we have a little snippet of conversation of them kind of behind the vehicle and the driveway, very grainy, like night vision kind of camera, like looks like somebody's got to,

about to get drone striked or something. And, and the audio of their conversation. is like they clearly had to find that audio like they used some tools on that to like isolate the audio that was totally yeah uh, detectable in that the raw audio feed surely that you just like sneak us in some little snippets of what they're talking about there of Jesse like apparently we get a great like sense of like the end of an argument. You know, like we know that throughout the ride home they've been talking about this and we just get this little. little like a little sniff of how it was going on just based on like what these little phrases we catch at the end of it where uh where jesse seems to be like criticizing her for like getting too physical with west and then like and seems to be implying that she's being

hit her hypocritical of her for criticizing him and and he is clearly like classic jesse stuff being like very like mixed signals being like, oh, you know, I'm criticizing you. But also, I love that about you. Like, and that's just like, you're thriving. And that's great. You know, no, no, no. It's cool.

Like, I'm like, like, that was totally, uh, more inappropriate than anything I have done. And I love that about you. That's great. Yeah, for sure. Like, like, uh, you really get the sense of that just through these things that were, like, that are communicated to the audience in a way. Like, this was not at all, uh, packaged for our eyes. This is things that have just, these are moments had been stolen and that have been snuck away

and gifted to us. Um, and the security camera footage like aesthetic like really drives at home. And then even when they're in the, they're in bed at night, um, they continue to have this discussion. Yeah. Like we could see almost nothing but like Jesse's large, vainy forearm just like sticking out of the bed while he continues to, to talk to Lexi in that way. Uh, and it continues to say things.

Like, no, I was, I was just trying to say that I'm just happy to see you flourishing and stuff. but he just have like, it kind of just, to me, it almost underscores, like, how he has the power and the relationship. Like, it's just like, he has such like a language kind of affect. You know, he always comes off as like the most like chill guy who just does whatever he feels like in the moment. But you just have this like statuesque, large, vainy forearm hanging out, which it just kind of underscores that idea of him, like, just, it's languid, but it's also like very powerful.

Like, he's, he's the guy who has. all the strength and all the control on this relationship. And the fact that that is communicated to us through these little snatches of grainy footage just sells it. That stuff works for me. Yeah, totally. One thing that I really love about this is how it is a contrast to Paige and Craig. Again, we're seeing throughout the season, Jesse and Lexi played for contrast against Craig

and Paige because we have all this anxiety in Page's story, this. episode surrounds her being worried about what she has said on camera, like what the camera captured, how Craig is going to react to what is captured on camera. Both Paige and Craig are such veterans of the reality TV game. They're very, they're acutely aware of what is going to be on camera and make the cut versus what isn't. And then the contrast that you have, like you said, captured in these stolen moments are Jesse and Lexi where they are assuming a state of privacy that they're having these these conversations in confidence and we get this almost vulnerability. They're letting their guard down and showing who they truly are. And we see Jesse come off

like a little bit manipulative or maybe a lot of bit manipulative of Lexi's feelings. and it's just really interesting to see them as, you know, a rookie and a sophomore, how they are assuming that these are moments that are private. And they're presented in a way that's almost voyeuristic. Yeah, I thought it was just beautiful the way that it was played for contrast there. Yeah. Like you said, Craig and Page are definitely being a lot more careful. But Page is letting more and more out. and but she's often framing it like she does with her conversation with Sierra in terms of how is it going to be seen, how am I going to be made to feel? Once this comes out, you know, she's clearly thinking on those multiple levels of like what is Craig going to think of this and what are people watching it going to think of this and how were those two things going to play into each other. Yeah, which is why her conversation with Sierra is really, really interesting to be. Though at the other, on the other side, like, Craig is not talking about his relationship at all, really.

Like, we don't have, like, almost anything of him discussing it. And that might be not a good idea because he is just seeding narrative control to Page. Totally. As much as Page is, like, not, you know, flaunting it. She's not necessarily seeking opportunities to control the narrative. she also is controlling the narrative because she's the only one who's discussing it. And even if those only happen in hush tones where she's clearly somewhat anxious and uncomfortable about that discussion,

we're still being treated to only her perspective and not Craig's perspective. So that plays in her favor in terms of how the audience is going to see things because we're getting her side of the story and we're not getting Craig's side of the story. So that's kind of, I mean, I want to call it a misplay on Craig's part and just in terms of like how things are going to come off. for the audience because he's he's seated complete narrative control to page and the show is framing it like when they give like recaps of like where we are with their relationship at the start of the episode they're picking moments that frame it as Craig feeling bitter about page's career

being more important than his you know they're using the same terms in which page is is framing the relationship because that's the only framing we have because we're only getting pages side of it and Craig is not offering his perspective I mean he is offering. He is offering a perspective, we are seeing him choose his moments to reinforce Page's narrative. In my opinion, the things that we're seeing actually captured on camera coming out of his mouth reinforces her narrative. So, I mean, that just doubly makes me believe her side of the story because you're right. It's all that we're getting. We're not getting him offer any sort of counter narrative. So I completely believe what Page is saying.

And her feelings come across very authentic in terms of the anxiety that she's feeling. And I don't think it's just a matter of the fact that he is seating the narrative, even though, yeah, he definitely is also seating the narrative. Yeah. And while we're on the subject, another thing that I really like about that moment where Paige is kind of sitting in the bed with Sierra and talking about the relationship. I was saying last episode how Sierra is a great person to watch listen because she has like such an active face. She's such an active listener and she has like such great facial expressions. In that scene, what's going on with her hands as well as most interesting to be like she's doing so much. She's fiddling with her phone with her hands while she's talking and she's kind of got her face kind of zoning out.

Her eyes going unfocused while she's talking about being overwhelmed and just kind of visualizing the breakup in that moment. I think she's just thinking it. She's playing out in her head how it's going to go. And you could tell that this is something that she's been thinking about a lot. And this is stressing her out a lot and causing a lot of anxiety. And her, like, posture at her hoodie with her hair and a bun and stuff. And the way that her hands are, like, just so active and toying with their phone and her lap just, like, really communicates so much more than her words do in terms of her mental state right there. And that really makes you understand how, like, Sierra.

is like getting anxiety secondhand from being next to her. Like it really kind of just radiates out of her through her body language. So that's another great example of why Page is a great reality TV personality because there's so much like there's so much physical communication both through her face and through her body language and stuff when she's on screen. Yeah, totally. And that also reinforces what we what she is saying she's feeling. So she's telling us that she's feeling anxious and her body language and everything about her is also communicating that. It really just makes her feel very authentic. Exactly.

Yeah, totally. I do want to circle back to Jesse and Lexi a little bit because this discussion that they have about, you know, Lexi being too flirty and the like the differing perspectives on this I thought was really interesting. And one thing that Jesse reminded me a ton of Tom Schwartz when in the most recent season of Vanderpump rules, when he has like a confrontation with Katie about sleeping with Max, just the fact that he's not mad about this. He's feeling like overwhelming relief about like the playing field being evened in his mind where he's like, okay, I'm not the bad guy. like we both have mistakes. We're even and it's an overwhelming sense of relief as opposed to like this anger or jealousy being the feeling like you would expect if, you know, under normal circumstances, I just thought that that was a really interesting parallel there.

Yeah, absolutely. And that's key to why his behavior is actually manipulative too. Like he's, he frames that in terms. He even says at one point, I'm excited about like Lexi. flirting with West and he says like I love it I think it was but like he loves that he has something that he can counter with when she says like oh I you know everybody says that you're being flirty with Sierra and he's like yeah you're being flirty with West like he loves that like you say yes something that that evens the playing field and he also loves that he now gets to tell her oh this is totally cool

see how cool I am about it that's the proper way to react you know like when you know like yeah Like, now I can frame you reacting to me flirting as being aberrant and weird and crazy because I am now saying that you're flirting with somebody else and I'm being totally cool and smiley and playful about it. Like, like that, that is such like a key to why his, his whole like Lucy Goosey charming guy act does have strong like manipulation undertones. So I know that we didn't see a lot. of this dynamic between Lexi and West, but from your perspective, how equivalent is it? Like, does Jesse have even a shred of a point? I strongly doubt it.

Again, not having seen what was actually going on. I feel like West is happy to flirt with Lexi because, again, West does not want the relationship to work out because he's jealous and he wants Jesse to himself. So I would, I assume that West would be happy to try to do anything that will make a wedge between Jesse and Lexi, including flirting with Lexi. But whatever happened was happening when they were drunk as hell at a bar, which was kind of different from Jesse. Well, probably drunk too, but maybe not as much in like an unchained bar context, like laying on top of Sierra and like, you know, massaging her feet and stuff.

Like, I think it feels so much more, like, intentional and premeditated when what Jesse's doing with Sierra, whereas I assume that whatever physical conduct was happening between Lexi and West was probably like a dance floor at the bar or something, you know. Yeah. And just to put one more piece into the Jesse Solomon as a dirtbag dossier and then we can close it or I'm good at least. For this episode. Yeah, for this episode. But the fact that after this conflict where he has presented his evidence to her that she has done something wrong, he proceeds to try to manipulate her into saying, I love you back to him. Like, like, now, now you've got to say it. You've got to say it because you did something bad and I'm not mad. Just like, oh, such dirt bag behavior.

But really great TV. Yeah, for sure. Do you have a quote that stands out to you from this episode? Well, even if we're kind of calling Jesse a bit of a dirtbag with reason, he also is like a bit of a bard at bro speak. And I do really like the way that he says to Emeril in a way game would be great for you. Like that like that phrase that he uses, that specific turn of phrase for like you should try hooking up with somebody at their house instead of your house. I just really got a kick out of the way that he just pulled out. Yeah, an away game would be great for you, man.

During that discussion. Yeah, I really like that. The one that stood out to me was from Lexi. Jesse tells me he loves me all the time, just not in front of anyone. Really amazing. Can we just quickly, just briefly, just want to gloss over it, just mention Lexi's living arrangement and that it's kind of weird? I just got her mom

Yeah he's got her He's not her mom and her older sister Who are like living Who moved in with her Because they have apparently Dedicated their entire lives to her For what we can see It's almost like a cult

Yeah It is it is very odd So now they all live together In a two bedroom apartment Where they ask Lexi like How does that work out? And she's like oh I don't even know

I don't even know it just does, which I take to mean that they both share the other bedroom, like her mom and her older sister just share the other bedroom. And Lexi's like, I don't know what they do. They sleep in the kitchen or something. Who fucking knows. It's my home. It's just, it's just something weird about having like your mom and your, your older sibling,

just like being your staff when I, yeah, I don't know. I mean, I get it if you're like a big celebrity, but she's like just somebody. Yeah. Like, I'm sure she gets, she has some good model. contracts probably and presumably but it's like just an odd living arrangement just just seems like a strange strange life that she that that torontoian lives i i love any scene that we get in the city and this the scene that we got of lexie and her sister and mom at at brunch was really amazing i love that they're all in black and we have the vibrant like city behind them i just

really love the contrast. They're all drinking these like really dark espresso martinis. Just thought that was fabulous. They've got dark makeup on and everything. Really love that. But there's a moment in there, aside from the weirdness about like what's going on with their living arrangement, I love that mom and sister are just being like, oh yeah, Jesse's this like amazing guy. He's so, he's so great for you guys. I've never seen you date anyone as perfect as him. And I'm just like reading between the lines. So like, he's really good. great for your career. Like that is like really what I'm hearing through their words.

And then Lexi's like, well, actually the girls were warning me about some of his behavior. And we're kind of left on that like that that cliffhanger a little bit of like how, how is mom and sister going to interpret it? Or at least that's something that's really interesting to me. Like are they concerned about Lexi the person like Lexi the family member or are they more concerned about, you know, Lexi, the product that their, their commercial success is so tied to. So, um, I'm just really interested to see how their perspective of Lexi's relationship with Jesse evolves as that relationship further degrades and, um, what they kind of latch on to.

Because they, they almost feel like leeches, the fact that they are so tied into like, what her success is. Like their success is so like tied into her success. They live in her, her apartment and they just, you know, fall asleep in whatever bad they, they fall asleep scrolling.

Scrolling. Yeah. That's the flip side of it. Like I said, like it feels like they've become her staff. But like you mentioned, the other side is that it also feels like she has become their product.

So it's like, it's like double. unhealthy in both senses. Any other highlights from this episode? Yeah, I mean, Jesse's reaction to Sierra touching him was very weird, but I feel we've already kind of covered that we're both kind of leading more and more towards Jesse just sucks as a diagnosis here.

But I do want to talk about that a little bit more because I thought how it was captured was so great because like I think so often with these characters as we've talked about the people that have been on this show for a long time or been on reality TV for a long time like Sierra at this point are so aware of how they are presenting themselves in front of the camera

and this felt like a moment of authenticity where she was just like fully taken back and not sure how to react it felt like such an honest reaction like wait are you serious like what what the fuck bro Yeah. Like, it was like, yeah, I just loved that moment.

It just felt so authentic. Yeah, yeah. Also, like that we kind of get a little pin put in that with a confessional moment of Sierra being like, I see you. I see you. And I'm like, oh, is this going to come back? Like, Sierra just like going to become anti-Jessey because of this. Because I hope so.

That would be great. And just another like quick mention that we speculated that Lil was dead to the series last episode and with the news that that carl has slept with somebody else it feels like we can we can definitively say that that that that that that's gone from the show so you know just insert a little montage of little here Craig uh in memoriam i have a gift here my goodness because you always make lemonade out of situations it's a metaphor but also you can use it. RIP, squeeze a lemon out for our phone.

Squeeze a lemon up for Lou. Hopefully she's making lemonade with somebody else out there now. Any other highlights that we haven't gone through yet? Yeah, I think that basically covers the high points for me. Yeah, I guess the one thing that we haven't really talked about is the final scene that we got with the girls lunching. where Sierra finally discloses this moment that happened at the Hope Lodge dinner. And I don't know, I really love these three, the dynamic between Amanda and Paige and Sierra. I just think that their history is just really communicated to us very, very clearly in how they interact with each other.

You know, the way that they talk about their off-camera family members, specifically their, Pets and have little insight jokes. So I know we're talking about. That's great. Yeah. It really like brings us into the friendship and it feels like so warm. That's communicated visually with how it's all presented. Just just really fantastic. And that really opens us up to their discussion. And again, we talked about how I read pages narrative as very truthful because of her body

language backs up what what she's saying. But this is another example because we are brought in. We're feeling like we're being told this as friends and in confidence. And it just really kind of bolsters what the message is. And yeah, I thought it was, I thought it was great. Yeah, that is. That is a great call there for sure. And, you know, one thing I'm just going to like note quickly is that I do kind of like that

Imral gets a little bit of confessional moment where he, he justifies. sleeping around with a bunch of people by saying he was like undocumented for most of his life. And he says like, I was living in the shadows and this is part of who I am. I kind of find that interesting. It does seem like kind of like a stretch as it like a reason for like why this is why I should be allowed to have loud sex in the next room. But I, but I would like to see him elaborate. Like I would like to see more of that like perspective explained from him. And he's mostly been an enigma, I feel so far.

So it would be interesting to get a little bit more of like a glimpse into how his mind works. And that was that was an interesting little snippet that I hope we can revisit and see expanded on. Yeah, you know, when he said that, I knew it was going to resonate with you because you famously always check the passport of anyone that you sleep with. So I knew that that was going to hit with you. It's true. And I call Homeland Security if it doesn't check out. Next morning. Yeah, another thing that I just remembered from this girl's lunch, we get a confessional from Paige during it where she talks about like just dealing with her feelings after the tour is over in terms of deciding where her relationship is at with Craig and whether or not she wants to break up.

And I just thought like this was something that really resonated with me. and we've talked a lot about how we are seeing kind of the dying husks of a relationship that is past its expiry date. And just like I remember being in relationships where it's like, okay, I know that I need to break up with this person, but like their birthday is in two weeks. So I can't do it until after that or, you know, whatever. I just like, I know that feeling. and it was, yeah, so honest. She just really, like, really nailed it for me. Okay, so let's give our stars here before we move on to the Valley.

Who are your stars? Yeah, I'll give number one to Jesse. Let's do it. He just continues to be the most fascinating person so far at this part of the season. So I'll go from my number one. Number two to Page, again, give him. been lots of good stuff there. It's really, really interesting to see her perspective on that kind of last gasps

of a relationship stage, like you said. And she's just, it's just an easy person to like emphasize with and, and seeing her on screen is always, is always great. Let's give a third start of Sierra. Once again, like the previous episode, the page scenes are also great Sierra scenes, too. So she continues to bring a lot both to the discussions as a listener and as like an agent acting on the conversations too. Like she really aggressively confronts Emerald kind of at Page's behest or kind of like page kind of prods her to it and she kind of makes it happen.

Does a good job like being kind of stirred and strict with him while also being like nobody's mad at you. We don't have to make it an argument. I'm just speaking for myself. but like the objection has been clearly stated and now I will walk away. Like she handled that well. Yeah. Continues to do a great job on the show. Yeah, totally.

I think like Paige Sierra are my one to, I'll probably give the edge to Sierra because I mean, for all the reasons that you mentioned, she's very active in this page and Craig storyline here, like way more than I was expecting. We get a lot from her. She's similar to Paige and that. We get a lot from her face and her reaction shots as well.

And yeah, so I thought that she brought a lot. She's also got her own thing going with Jesse, which is really coming to a head here. I just thought this was a fantastic episode for Sierra. So I'm all about that. Number two, let's give it to Paige. I don't think I need to elaborate because we've covered that in depth. Number three, I don't know whether to give this to Jesse or Lexi.

I am leaning towards giving this to Lexi just because we did get that extra scene with her and her family. I think that that adds a dynamic that Jesse isn't necessarily bringing. Yeah. So I think it was a great, great episode for all of them. And obviously, honorable mention to Jesse. And honorable mention to Emerald's friend number seven or whatever the cat is at right now. Yeah. Yeah.

The moaner, as she will always be known. The fake moaner. We didn't dive into that, but Paige, Paige knows a fake moan when she hears one. Okay, so we're going to dive into the valley right away. Before we do, just take a quick moment to hit the subscribe button if you are watching on YouTube. If you're not watching us on YouTube, go to our YouTube and subscribe. It's way better there. I haven't addressed it, but-

I'm wearing bunny ears. You wouldn't know that. if you were just listening on Spotify or whatever podcast app, before you hop on over to YouTube, hit your subscribe button on your podcast platform of choice, because that helps us out too. Leaving a comment really helps a ton as well. Everyone tells you what to do.

You know what to do. So just do it for us. Just do it. Please. Be nice of Easter present. Okay, let's dive into the valley. Dylan, give us a summary of what happened here. All right.

I'm glad we're back. We're back in the valley. Yeah. So, yeah, dissolution of relationships is front and center, Jackson and Brittany on the skids. Jesse and Michelle thoroughly divorced. So much of this episode is really just kind of, like, you know, setting the stage for how the different people are going to divide their sympathies in the aftermaths of these splits. Yeah. Janet and Brittany, like, do some, like, gardening, make little greenhouses.

um, Kristen is stumbling through the episode, zonked out like a zombie as far as I can tell. Uh, and it ends with, well, um, on the one hand,

uh, our old buddy Tom Schwartz showing up to, uh, to, uh, to comfort jacks in Jackson's, Jack's studio city par. And then also a rooftop white party hosted by Brittany.

Um, shout out white outs. Go. Go Jets go. That's going to hit with our audience, by the way. Yeah, which I guess the big moment of the Whiteout party is Janet and Kristen going going toe to toe over Zach's comments and demonic behavior. Okay, I love that we're calling it the Whiteout Party now.

So just want to put that out there. While we're on the topic, though, the NHL playoffs are on right now. One thing that I am really missing this season is Jacks. his commentary on Twitter because usually if you follow him on Twitter, he's so active during the NHL playoffs. So I'm dying to know who he thinks is going to win the cup this season. Who do you think Jacks is going to think is going to win the cup this season? Well, you know, if you if you want Jackson's takes on the NHL playoffs, I think he just have to follow the Tap of A Lightning accounts because they are run by Jack Taylor, I think. I think he was

hired to run their accounts like six or seven years ago, which is why he moved to Florida, six or seven years ago and why we never saw him in L.A. again after that. All right. Once again, you are tuned into the brav hosers, the number one hockey and Bravo podcast online. Sorry, I definitely derailed us quite a bit here, but

what did you like about how this? They all turned it off. What did you like about how this was presented? I mean, it does look consistently good throughout throughout all of it. I like that we have a little gardening moment between Janet and Brittany. We've previously talked on the show about how

plants and gardening are often used on the show as kind of a shorthand for trying to tend to your own life and make things grow in your own world, especially after a breakup. So we get a bit of that, which is nice. The rooftop party, the white party, is also kind of nice as a sort of

shortcut to communicating to the audience that these are the people who are like trying to show themselves as being clean, as being dressed in white, as being the good guys, as being above it all, you know, as being like the ones who are, who are looking down on other people who are right, who are correct, who are, you know, that kind of, uh, like everybody seems to,

everybody who's there for Brittany is, is kind of there to communicate that, which is great. So that's great, like a really great kind of party for her to have for that because that seems to be kind of a, an overriding theme in this episode, I think, is that in the aftermath of these breakups, who is going to stake out the territory as being on the right side and also who is like just going to be committed to playing mental games and trying to like fuck with their partners or their ex-partners for the rest of it. Yeah, totally. The white party was

like a standout moment for me in terms of like aesthetic and themes. Just this idea of like rebirth or re-baptism and, you know, new beginnings. And we even see, yeah, yeah, we even see God's chosen Kristen Doty and Janet try to like turn a new page. It doesn't go well, but, you know, this is an opportunity for rebirth. And I just like, I just love that. I really appreciated that. Do you have a quote that stood out to you from this episode? Well, you already brought up God's favorite, Kristen Doty.

So we're always glad to have her come back. I do like her saying, know that if I'm telling you, I am correct about something. Don't call me a liar. I hope everyone feels really stupid because I feel so validated. That is a little subtle. It's a little, you got to read between the lines there. But I think she is, she is saying that she's right. Yeah, I love that.

That's just, that's, that's the stuff we show up for. Even if she seems to be like half present throughout this episode. Yeah. Not entirely mentally there all the time. You can still click Canada to show up and be like, don't forget, I'm always right. And everybody else is always wrong. Yeah. So my favorite quote from this episode was from the plant shop guy.

welcome to the jungle when when the girls walked in. I just really love that. You know that that's how he greets everyone into the sore. And he's just been like waiting to bust that on camera and have it immortalized somewhere. So shout up to the plant shop guy. Yeah. And then when Brittany says she's from Kentucky, he goes, all right, giddy up. Let's talk a bit more about Kristen Doty here.

I really love the scene between her and Jesse, where Jesse is like apologizing and like begging to come over to the dark side, like, begging to like be accepted by Kristen and Jackson. And I thought that this was really a like a strategic move from him to like look at where things are and where his alliances could be. and I do feel like he honestly does believe the things that he is saying to Kristen, but I think there's also some strategy there. And in terms of like apologies that we get on Bravo, I thought this was actually like a really great apology from him. Like I think that he really, really nailed it. But I'm curious what your rate on that was.

No, totally. It was a complete apology. Like it was without reservations, he apologizes unreservedly. But then he is also very unsubtle about why he's doing it, because he immediately right after says then. So there are going to be people who are on team Michelle and there are going to be people who are on team Jesse. And I was just wondering and Christian's like, yeah, okay, team Jesse, sure. And like, he doesn't, he doesn't make it hidden why he's doing this. Like he'll just straight up says, like, I want you on my team and please tell.

me that you are on my team right now. Yeah, totally. In terms of other like strategic moments, is there anything that stands out to you? The other similar moment would be at the end when Janet comes to speak to Kristen. Again, people are coming with Kristen with apologies. She just makes it happen. So that's interesting too, because Janet does come and does actually offer like a pretty good apology at first, but doesn't choose as not to back down. when Christian kind of like challenges it and says like I am not apologizing for anything I've done. So that was kind of interesting to me because you see it because I think that is strategic like

she does want to to smooth that over and have like that in road to Christian. But she's also kind of has enough backbone that when like Christian is just kind of being being a bit of a brick wall or like not not. showing any willingness to also bend towards her. You know, when Janet's like, I'm bending towards you. Are you going to bend towards me? And Kristen's like, no. You know, Janet at least has enough backbone to be like, okay, like, that was going to be the play. But at this point, I have to stand strong in my opinion, too.

So at this point, I'm choosing to like call off the apology and call Zach demonic. How do you think, like, what do you think of Kristen's decision to not? accept the apology and, you know, deep in that divide. She plays by her own rules, so far be it from me to a mere mortal, to parse the entrails and do devonation and look at the stars and try to figure out what logic. The logic is beyond and above me, and I could devote my life to try to figure it out and I could never. Only God and Ali Loubert, no.

But my mere mortal reaction would be. that it seems like a mistake that she should have just taken it. And she just should have, she should have showing willingness to be like, well, you know what Zach does kind of suck. And, uh, and that wasn't, I wasn't saying that he was saying that. So, uh, thanks for, thanks for, uh, for coming to me and let's be friends. That seems like that would be the more like strategic thing to do. Yeah.

I, I think that you're right. I think for like Kristen's play style, like you said, she's like she plays by her own rule. She's an agent of chaos. And she aligns herself with chaos. Like, Jacks is also really chaotic. We've seen Zach proof to be very chaotic. So,

you know, I think that instability gives her a sense of stability. And so I feel like this is actually a really good move for her to, like, not accept the apology. Because if she does accept the apology, she's not able to use that anymore. She has to, like,

put it back. And, you know, she, she needs leverage. to pull and buttons to push. And so I really like this move from her. I thought it was like really, it really showed her savviness.

It could just be that I'm Kristen Pilled, but I just really loved her not accepting this apology and just wanting to be like, no, we still got beef. This is still a thing. And I'm going to keep using this until I find something better and more relevant, which she will because she is, she's a goat. She's, she's amazing. Yeah, that's probably the right read.

The one little detail I did like about that confrontation is like when she brings it to Luke Colorado. And she keeps going off. There's this little shot where you see Luke kind of like running a hand on her back. Like they kind of like bring the cabra into like him like making these little hand gestures on her back. And it really feels like I don't, I feel like they said like Luke lives on like a ranch or something, doesn't he? I don't know if he's a horse guy. but it feels like he's treating cursed and like a horse. Like it feels like he's just like,

ooh there, all right, calm down. Whoa. Making these little brushes on her side. Like, okay, I'm going to take a little easier there.

Not going to work, but like the way that he, that he physically approaches her, that the camera catches there, like really made me laugh because it did, it did feel like not the way that you, like, communicate physically to your girlfriend,

but the way you communicate physically to an animal that you are intimidated. by and hope will not kick your teeth out. I've watched enough Yellowstone to know that not all horses can be broken. So, and I think Kristen is one of those horses that just can't be broken. Another, another, like, strategic decision that I wanted to bring up was Jacks' decision to have a parallel party, like a rival party. I think it was described to Brittany's white party.

And this is, like, just. such classic jacks but yeah i really love how it has played out so far the fact that we see this like this rogues gallery of randos that are showing up just random co-kids

and tom schwartz tom schwartz and his brother bert like and then I can't remember who says like where is everyone it's like oh yeah traffic oh it's still early but traffic is so bad yeah yeah right

Yeah, which is why we cut to the later moments where it's full of wonderful, lovely people who are friends with everyone. Yeah. But I was delighted to see Tom Schwartz show up. And apparently we're going to get him in Summer House next episode, too. I think they show the next episode bit. So like a double wabby of Tom Schwartz, that's what gets everybody excited. I definitely definitely was whooping in class. when he appeared at Jacks's Studio City dive bar there.

That's my, that's my chicken jockey when Tom Schwartz shows up and sits down and goes, I don't know, man, it's, it's tough. Yeah. That's nothing more thrilling than that. You know, I was excited too, but also bring Sandoval, you cowards. Like, put him back on our screen. Like, don't be a coward. bring him back, let's go.

For sure, that he would deliver so much more. Schwartz is so lame there. Like, he is just like, he's being so careful in what he says. Like, he doesn't want to say anything that's misplaced. So he's just, like, very, like, vaguely, like, not really looking jacks in the face, being like, yeah. So your feelings are valid, but your actions aren't, weren't valid. and that like just like saying like lame platitudes and just like getting through the scene

sandalwald would do more of a show like he would make it about himself he would cry uh he would coat at a quarter like he like he would do more uh schwartz it's classic wishy-washy swartz there was a great wishy-washy schwartz moment in there where like jacks is like in his feelings the camera's just on jacks and you just see schwartz's arm going to frame like it's going to like pat jacks or something and they're and just kind of like, the disarm just kind of retreats. Like,

nah, I'm not going to do it. Like, just that like, that like wishy-washy-ness of being like, I'm going to make a gesture. Uh, hover.

Nah, maybe I won't. It's just like perfect Tom Schwartz right there. Like, yeah, totally. Yeah. Yeah.

I was like, also I feel like Tom Schwarz or Tom Sandoval makes Tom Schwartz and Tom Schwarz. And Tom Schwartz makes Tom Sandoval a lot more palatable. Like they just play well off of each other. I was watching a video as. video essay on YouTube about various comedies like Dumb and Dumber or a Night at the Roxbury. And it was talking about how if you take one of these two characters and remove the other, in isolation, they're just awful characters and you would never be able to like feel sympathy

towards them or relate to them or like they would be completely indigestible as characters. But once there's two of them, then all of a sudden it's. like hilarious how inept they are and how they interact with each other. And a lot of it has to do with the fact that, you know, each of these awful people who we would not be able to accept as individuals are able to see the best in the other and how they are able to like see the good. And that forces us as the audience to give them some grace. And that's like that really helps balance. And I think that, you know, that's very true of Tom Schwartz and Tom Sandoval.

Although like I think all their goodwill has pretty much gone out the window. And they're still very interesting to me as a result of that. But I know that a lot of the audience is not, is not ready to accept them or give them any goodwill. But for the bulk of Vanderpump rules and for the bulk of their run on TV, I do think that they have had that dynamic and that that really helped, you know, prop them up as these characters that we could really get behind and engage with. Yeah, that's a really good point. And that's kind of a secret sauce of the Valley actually and why I like it is that it's full of just terrible people, like just awful, awful shitty people. Like, I don't know if there's another Bravo show that has like such a. collection of terrible assholes.

But, but. Banderpuff rules did. But there you go. Yeah. But we kind of got like the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the things. So, yeah, we, we don't have sand about. We don't have James Kennedy. So, yeah, there are, it could get worse. But, but we, you know, but we've got, like, Jesse here. Like, we've got, we've got some pretty, pretty awful people. And, and, and, and, yeah, the, fact that there are multiple of them doesn't make it unwatchable. It makes it more interesting. Because we see them, like, like, relying on each other and like like we see jack's going to jesse for advice and that is like

that what what i don't know like whatever the the equivalent of the blind leading the blind is for assholes that's that's what that is and you have like jack's talking about like you know flipping out at at brittney because she slept with somebody when they were allowed to sleep with other people and like flipping a table at her. And he says like, you know, show me another man who wouldn't act the same way. I'm like, I'll show you somebody who's not Jesse, but that's apparently the only person you're hanging out with and getting advice from. So like, of course, your perspective of like what another man would do is totally warped.

And yeah, like Christian having a head to head with Jesse too is also another moment of like people with like awful ethical instincts just like consulting one another and that's awesome it's super pot but also we also have a little spice of like some people who are just kind of sweet throwing in like that's also why I love having nita and daddy there because they're just like they just come off as like as like just sort of sweet kind dull Disney adults who are just somehow mixed up with like the most awful assholes on the planet they're like maybe Santa Clarita would be a better place for us. Yeah.

Like literally planning to move to get away from all these people. Yeah. Do you have any other highlights that we haven't talked about? Yeah, I don't know. I'm happy that Michelle is seeing somebody else, but I'm a little disappointed that she's cheating on Quentin Tarantino. What did you think of her new guy in his like brief appearance? I don't know.

I guess we just see more. I feel like we didn't really get enough to have a, for me to have a judgment so far. Did you see enough to to come off with a with a read? I'm ready for more of him. I think the fact that like he was so ready to chirp into their co-parenting business that they were sorting out. You know,

when Jesse was trying to get under Michelle's skin by like talking about moving to Orange County and Michelle's firing back about. how like the only problem I have with Isabella is that she wants everything and she gets that from you. Like just such a weird way to talk about like your toddler and like you weaponize your child to fire back. And then I can't remember what Jesse says, but the new boyfriend chirps in is like, oh yeah, by giving her everything she wants. Like the fact that he's that ready to dive into something that is like so personal to come in on a like fresh relationship and just. coming that hot on a co-parenting issue that is like really not your business i thought was really showed his potential for like being up there in terms of an asshole on the level of of jesse so

um yeah i'm ready to see them but heads i really like that there is real potential there for sure yeah and i also love the introduction that we get from michel to her new boyfriend where she's in a confessional she's like oh yeah he's just He's this guy that I've known for a couple of years, and we just kept bumping into each other at coffee shops and on hikes. It's like, okay, yeah, the places, you know, going on hikes and coffee shops where you just happen to bump into people. I just kept running into him and like the little swan-shaped paddle boat in the middle of Echo Park,

which is, oh, you again. there was another moment that I really like in terms of Jesse and Jacks hanging out when Jesse shows up in a car, a new car, I guess. And Jack's is like, whoa, you rented this? Immediately, like, turns it into this, like, power play between these two, like, guys that are going through a divorce. And, you know, they're always in a position, I guess, as you're going through a divorce where you're, like, you know, assessing the value of your assets against, like, what your partner is going to get and just immediately bring that energy to the, like, friend dynamic and be like, oh, did you rent that

or is that yours? And just, like, eyeing up another person's stack. I just really, I think, captured their mindset. And I just really love that element of toxicity that has, like, seeping into their relationship with each other. But it doesn't come across as something that is going to be adversarial. It's something that they're like bonding over this like toxic mindset that they have. So I just thought that that was like a really beautiful inclusion. Yeah, absolutely. I think we covered most of what I wanted to talk about in this episode. Did you have anything else? What I like about the Jesse stuff just to like like wrap that up is just that Jesse has been waiting for this for so long. Like he has wanted to go to war with Michelle because they're they have so much like animosity.

and negativity in the relationship, that he is going into the divorce like he's been preparing for this battle for years. So that's like a big thing that I took away from this episode. And I'm excited to see how this terrible person goes to war against his ex-wife because that's what he's been waiting to do for a long time. Yeah, totally. I mean, I think that Jesse for sure, it feels like he's gearing up for war and I'm really interested like you said in seeing how that plays up. I think Jackson, Brittany are, is also going to be a really interesting clash to watch. I don't think that Jacks and Brittany are as prepared for war or as capable of preparing for war as Jesse is, but really interested to see how that goes down as well.

Yeah. Who are your stars from this episode? You know what, I might as well give a first start of Kristen. Even though she was kind of zonked out and all, it was her unpredictability is just always such a big asset. She walks into a scene sometimes like you told her that you're going to start filming like five minutes before the camera started running. And it just feels like it could always go in any direction, no matter how long you've been watching her, you still can predict what she's going to do. So her energy was kind of the most exciting for me. So I might as well go ahead and give her the first star.

Let's give a second start. Like that beautiful moment where she is lecturing Janet about like the power of accountability. And we get a montage of her not taking accountability. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She brought a lot. Yeah.

Let's give a second start of Jesse because again, I just, I love hate. watching this guy, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the most perfect asshole. And he is been gearing up to go full asshole for so long. And we're going to see him realize his full potential, I think, this season. And it's a good start. Um, why don't we give a third star on a slightly more positive note, uh, to Brittany because, um, that's going to be like one person that we could actually kind of cheer for, uh, on. Ironically, during this season, I think, is going to be, it's going to be Brittany, hopefully finding some more independence and getting her life back on track. As much as this episode is often framed in terms of Jacks, we literally end with Jacks's name going in down in flames.

You know, like, I think the last shot we have is of the name Jacks on like the wall of his bar, cross fading into a fire pit. So as much as the framing often puts the emphasis on like the downfall of Jacks, like what's going to happen to Jacks. A lot of the actual content of the episode is Brittany talking with her friends and like discussing about like, right, like, you know, her feelings and what she's going to do and stuff. So, you know, that it's good to have that side too. And that gives us somebody that we can kind of root for. And I thought it was a pretty good episode for her too.

So let's throw her in there as well. So that's interesting that you brought up the fact. that we have all this framing about the downfall of Jacks, but the body of that is explored through Brittany talking with her friends. Because I wonder if production realizes that Jacks, as like a character and as a person is incapable of carrying a emotional story arc. And so they need to lean on the other tools that they have in their, like in their toolbox in order to be able to present this story because

Jacks is not going to be he's not a reliable enough narrator for his own story in order to carry a truly emotional like arc about redemption and downfall and all the themes that they would need to be able to communicate within you know a story like that well I'm curious what what your thoughts are there I think you nailed it yeah I think we need Brittany's perspective too to kind of round it out and to have have more more honesty. Like you say, like Jacks is not, we can't count on him to be honest in his, in his reaction. He's going to spin things in a pro-Jack's way.

And I think we can count on Brittany to be a little more vulnerable and to speak her emotional truth a little bit more. So we need her perspective for this to feel more satisfyingly dramatic. I think you hit the nail on the head there. Yeah, I think I've got very similar stars to you. Number one is going to be Kristen. and number two is going to be Jesse. We've really covered that.

I want to give number three to Janet just because I see that she is trying to make something happen here in terms of like patching things up with Kristen. I am interested to see what she does here just because I do think that as a villain, she is interested. Like she emerged as a bit of a villain at the end of last season. and I think that she's just not really likable by the fan base. And I'm curious to see how production kind of responds to the sentiment from the audience on Janet. If they're able to lean into her being a villain or if they're going to try to redeem her,

it'll be interesting to see how they try to position all of these people narratively when we have so many new players. Like it's a brand new cast, how they respond to the audience feedback is really interesting. And I think she's one of the more active, like strategic players that the Valley has here. So yeah, I want to give an early shout out to her trying to make something happen.

Yeah, yeah, good call. I think that she's been kind of chomping at the bit, a bit to get going. Like you can tell that she really wants to mix up. She really wants to get involved in the first seat. And she was, you know, she was very pregnant for most of it. She didn't really get much opportunity. So it's, it's interesting to see what she's going to get up to this season.

Awesome. Well, I think that about does it for this week. Dylan, do you want to let people know where they can find you? For sure. I'm Dylan Ferguson on Substack and in real life. That's my name. I write about movies on Substack. So if you want to, if you want to see some of my thoughts on recent movies, go over there.

I haven't put anything up there in a while, but hopefully we'll have something new very soon. Awesome. I'm Craig Midwinter. You can find me on our Instagram at Bravo Outsider, on our TikTok, also at Bravo Outsider. Yeah, that about does it for this week. Once again, hit the subscribe button. Leave us a comment. Tell us your thoughts. We would love to hear what you think about this. So until next week, keep on wiping.