Oscars Outsider - The Defense of Raquel Leviss (Special Vanderpump Unit - Reunion Pt. 3)

Episode Date: June 8, 2023

Craig, Dylan and Outsider Sean O'Rourke, as they analyze the explosive finale of the Vanderpump Rules Reunion. Find Sean on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/seanshaircut Find Dylan on substack at https://dylanferguson.substack.com/ Music by FASSounds [https://pixabay.com/users/fassounds-3433550/?utm_source=link-attribution&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=music&utm_content=112194] from Pixabay [https://pixabay.com//?utm_source=link-attribution&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=music&utm_content=112194]

Hello and welcome to the Bravo Outsider Podcast, special Vanderpump Unit. I hope you brought your cheese graters because this is our coverage of part three of the Vanderpump Rules Reunion. I'm your host, Craig Midwinter. Joining me, as always is Dylan Ferguson. Dylan, how are you doing? Ooh, doing pretty good. Glad to finally get to talk about what we've all been looking forward to. Lisa promoting her new restaurant.

And her lighting business? Yeah, or something. We've also brought back our outsider, Sean O'Rourke, to talk about this. Sean, how's it going? It's going great. Thanks for having me again. Also very pumped to dive into part three here. Yeah, well, let's get right into it.

Do you want to give us your highlights right out of the gate here? Yeah. Actually, I want to lead off with, I know I mentioned this on part one, but we got like an actual shot of Brock's haircut, and I just couldn't be more upset. Yeah. I really don't like it. I was kind of expecting to just suddenly start talking with an American accent as soon as he showed up with that hair. Yeah. Now he just looks like a dude.

Yeah. Before he was like one of my favorite character archetypes, the wholesome dipshit. And I think most of that was his long hair and his Australian accent. And now I don't know if it's going to be the same. So that's more of a low light. Yeah. So my really big highlights are obviously the last interview with Raquel, which I'm sure we'll talk about. But quickly before that, when Ariana is going off toward the end about the Raquel and Sandable relationship,

and she's basically doing the Diane Keaton monologue and Godfather, too, like, how it's an abortion. Like, really good. like very dramatically compelling. And then of course, James has to jump in and make it about like him and Ali and have a comment where it's like, well, Ali is an upgrade to you, Raquel. Just totally taking out all the energy. And then, yeah, just the, in that whole explosion, Ariana talking about how she's, she's glad it went nuclear. And you could just see like, so is Andy Cohen and so are all the producers of the show. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. Well, yeah, really, really strong. Yeah. And then of course, or go ahead. Oh, no, I was going to say, Dylan, you, you touched on a point about we got like a weirdly placed, uh, promotion for Lisa's restaurant. I, I,

Harry by Vanderbump. Yeah. I really loved the like, like, design is my passion vibe. You know, how you get those like memes where it's like, yeah, graphic design is my passion. And it's in like comic sands or papyrus font. It was like exactly that moment. She's like, oh, yeah, design is a passion of mine. And this is arguably one of the most beautiful restaurants in Vegas.

And then there's like all these clips of this like ugly as shit restaurant. Lisa Vanderpump is like a young horsegirl's idea of a fancy person. Totally. Absolutely. And like if that person made their equivalent of like an applebee is just with a bunch of shit on the walls. Yeah. Sorry to cut you off there, Sean. You add another highlight? Well, just into like that, I think the real strongest part of the reunion is the the Pue, the De Numaul interview at the end where Raquel just kind of comes clean about all

the coaching from Sandoval. And there's that great thing where even during that of her wanting to get everything off her chest where the producers like, so were you ever in St. Louis? And she's sort of stammering around it. And they cut to the photo of Sandoval and her in St. Louis. And the Bruce is like, I mean, you've already, you might as well just, come on. Yeah. But I thought that was like really, really compelling and is kind of a good lead into what the show could be going forward, you know, if it does. Like, what does it look like from there?

I think this was kind of the, the feather in Raquel's cap for like a great reunion. I thought that she handled herself so well during the reunion and came off like very composed. And I thought that this like really framed her as as a victim of Sandoval's manipulation. This this clip at the end. So I don't know. I felt sympathetic towards Raquel during this episode. And I am a little shocked.

that I haven't seen that sentiment expressed a bit more within the fandom. Like, obviously there's a betrayal here that people are feeling very viscerally. But they are treating her as, like, subhuman. And that's like the label that is being applied to her in this reunion. And people are, you know, they're taking that and running with it and treating her as garbage. I was curious about the, like, I haven't dug into the reaction from the fandom, but, because the whole reunion is dangerous. It's a horrible cesspool. A lot of.

Sorry, Craig. I know we're trying to build a brand here. So much of, especially part three of like this intense shame ritual. And like, I don't know how you can't feel anything for Raquel having to like sit through that, particularly with, you know, the information at the end of like, like you say, showing that manipulation from Sandville. Yeah, if people are watching on YouTube, I am wearing red. It is not an allusion to Ariana's red dress, but in solidarity with Raquel's scarlet letter. I think, you know, and like Hester Prynne, Raquel has angered the masses with her beauty and quiet dignity. It is very Puritan.

It's a very Puritan, like, Massachusetts colony in the 1600s, which trial? It is the passion of Raquel. And I totally agree that I can't imagine watching this and not feeling sympathy for her. You know what? I've been riding Team Raquel the whole way. So that's been my perspective from the start. But I can't imagine watching this and seeing all these people just be as mean as they possibly can to somebody who, regardless of what she's done, it's an extremely emotional.

emotionally vulnerable situation and just try to hurt her as hard as they can by denying her humanity, by her saying it's human and saying that's not human behavior by saying she's subhuman, which I think is just never an okay thing to say to somebody ever in any situation, no matter who they are. And, you know, it's calling her rotten and disgusting and nothing. The lowest blow of all comparing her to a villain and a Harry Potter story, you know, that's cut deep for her. I think, I think the only way Arianna could have heard her more as if she said, like, if Taylor Swift met you, she wouldn't have liked you. But you know what? Not fun for me.

This wasn't fun for me. I'm not saying I'd like the episode. It was like it was written content. It was an experience. It was like a whole searing document. But like I found it stressful, uncomfortable, grueling. punishing. And so many people were saying they wanted catharsis.

And I think a lot of the communication coming out of the show was that too. I think Andy was saying that going up to us. You know, the fans are going to get catharsis. Is this what people wanted? Is this really what people wanted? Are people really sitting there on their couches, you know, eating chips and ice cream and grinning and cheering and being like, yeah, bully her. It didn't feel.

People are. People definitely are. Like, that's the sentiment that we're seeing, which is. you think they still feel that way after watching it now? Yeah, I do. Just judging based on the reactions that I've seen so far, I mean, maybe time will, you know, there'll be more people that are coming out and expressing their discomfort in it. Yeah, once the moment's kind of passed a little bit when people are less caught up in the moment of the thing.

The immediate reaction still is like anger towards Raquel and Tom. Well, actually, the immediate reaction is just, like anger and disbelief towards Tom's comment about, uh, Ariana wearing a t-shirt during sex. That was bad. That was bad. Yeah.

You did not need to say that, Tom. Yeah. Bad move. Oh, this is, this will get me sympathy. Yeah. And I like that he apologized after,

but he apologized to Tom Schwartz. Not to anyone else. It's like, sorry, sorry, dude. And Tom's like, bearing his face in his lap. Um, But yeah, I do still see this like, this anger being expressed online towards Raquel.

And, you know, I think that Ariana did not come across that great in this episode to me. I mean, she was, you know, the way that she had been built up leading into this. I feel like she was in an impossible position. Like she couldn't, you know, both express the anger that all these fans of her now want to see expressed while also coming across as like taking the higher road. But I feel like there were moments where she stooped to a level of immaturity that we've only seen from James. Like when she says like grody, it is, it's very childish. And I don't think that that is the reaction that anyone was really hoping for. I think they wanted, you know, the clear, articulate, precise blows that she was giving at certain points.

But to see her kind of revert to this childish handling of things is, something that I don't think that people were looking for, at least especially not me. Yeah. I mean, I said in the previous episode that she gets kind of a special dispensation because she's the ones who's wounded and who has to like go through a really, really hard situation and kind of gets to do whatever she needs to do to try to steal less hurt because of this. But she, she went really far into like you said, kind of the childish, just trying to inflict as much damage on another person as I can, that it became hard to take her side, I thought. Yeah. And I get that, you know, obviously she's entitled to this, these feelings and this anger.

And that's completely justified. And I guess one thing that we as viewers need to be mindful of is there is a lot more space between these revelations and the time that we're viewing this versus these revelations in the time that it was recorded. It was still very fresh. I think they said it was about three weeks. So that anger is very fresh. So that's something I think she gets a little bit of leeway. But this is not how I was hoping to see her operate throughout this reunion, in my personal opinion.

And obviously, that's the last thing that matters. you know, what I think, but it wasn't, it was, it was, it was not satisfying for me. And I also wonder, is she helping herself too? Like, is she doing the best thing to, to help herself heal by, by being as, as maybe, I don't, I literally don't know. Like, it's honestly an obvious, honest question. But like, it does kind of make me kind of question all the people around her who are giving her so much support, which is amazing. It's so great that she has a lot of people give her support, but are they giving her the right kind of support by just being like, let's be really mean?

Like, is that really the best approach to help her heal? I'm not sure. Maybe in the short term, that's like really what she needs. I don't know. I just fucking don't know. I mean, I was surprised to see some balance coming from Lala in that respect because, you know, Lala at one point says, you know, look at this as a gift that they have given you. Like you're getting out of this relationship.

You're going to thank them later. Yeah. And I do think that like that is a great way to be supporting her while also handling, you know, giving the fans the anger that they want to see. Yeah. She might have taken it a little bit far by being like, can you imagine being with Sandoffal, bullet in my brain? Like, okay, she was with him for like nine years. Like that might not be like super nice for her to hear right now. James loved it though

Of course Yeah there's like In parts one and two There's like sort of a dignity to Ariana's anger and it's like very understandable And they have a lot of empathy with it But like when they bring Raquel out There's a shift in the energy

And I don't know if it's just feeding off Of like the peanut gallery of Lala and James And sometimes Katie But yeah It feels it feels uglier in part three Yeah I would have preferred to see that ugliness and that childishness in parts one and two when Raquel was not present and it directed at Tom who I think, you know, obviously deserves this anger way more than Raquel does.

But to see that come out only after Raquel shows up, maybe that's the edit. But I think that's another thing that, you know, feels a bit. unsatisfying and off to me about this whole dynamic. I want to talk about James here because James reverts to a childlike state here that was very annoying, even as a Jamesiac. But as soon as Raquel comes out, he cannot contain him or he can barely. contain himself. He's like, he can't keep a straight face. This is, you know, this is the chum and the water for him. Oh, yeah. Yeah, clearly not over Raquel and like the season really illustrates that all throughout. But yeah, like something, yeah, like he just gets that whiff of blood and

absolutely goes off. And then I did really appreciate Lisa, like, momming him down when he's really going off on the poop head rant. If you don't shut up, we're going to be here for two days. Yeah. I like how he was consistently making things about himself. And then at one point, he's like, why does it always come back to me? Am I just that entertaining? And Lisa's like, no, no, you're not.

And he's like, but I am actually. I am. I will say there was, there's one really entertaining and funny James moment in part three. They do the group photo. And as they're kind of breaking up and he just softly sings that line from the theme song, These are the best days of our lives. That's very funny. Yeah, he was very dynamic.

We got him do a little bit of a dance number here, too. No stormoffs. He's a triple threat. Triple threat. He can sing, he can dance. There's also that great moment where Andy's like, hey, so you had that festival, any big festivals coming up? What's next for DJ?

And he's like, maybe the same one this year. Yeah. Or like, I guess see you next Tuesday at Sir. Does he do that still? Yeah. Yeah. He's, I think he's touring his, uh, his DJ thing right now. So I know I've seen like social media clips where he's got people chanting,

Sunderval's a liar. In spite of myself, I do like that a lot. Yeah. Does he do his like, his weird DJ hands to it? Oh, I'm sure, yeah. What did you guys think about the, the Sheena cam? We got the same, like, trailer treatment for her as we did of Raquel. Who had the better trailer face?

I mean, Sheena's expressions are really good, just because she always looks like some sort of bird that you've been, you've startled in the woods. You know, some sort of jungle bird who, like, is seeing a human intruding other territory for the first time. So, I mean, she just got great facial expression. So I'll give her the edge for that. Yeah. I love the clutching of a white claw and like angrily eating sun chips. Yeah, that's exactly what I was going to say. Just like white claw in the talons yelling at the TV.

Very relatable. I would have like, you know what? Actually, it was a good setup they had, but it would have been nice to just have a little insert in the corner for the whole time. Like just a constant. Sheena reacts. Like almost like an interpreter. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Like, I think there was like a time on like Fox News had like Tucker Carlson reacts to like Joe Biden give it a speech and they put like his face in the corner of the screen throughout his entire speech like that. That should have not exactly that. I wonder if we're seeing a bit of a evolution of the reunion format by getting this. kind of Metacam because this is something that we saw in the Real Health Sides of New Jersey reunion a little bit with the husbands this week. It feels very new.

I'm always interested in seeing the evolving visual language of reality TV. And this is a much appreciated addition to the reunion format. Yeah, for sure. And yeah, I mean, we'll tell you. talk about that one next time. But tomorrow, we'll talk about the Jersey reunion. But fuck, we're like great, great use of back behind the scenes stuff. So yeah, more of that would be great. A room full of Joe's. Yeah. And Louis walking around shirtless, eating flabing hot Cheetos. But yeah, we'll get to that tomorrow. I won't get ahead of myself.

Yeah, I think the reaction cam is, it's an interesting wrinkle. Although in this case, it's like, it seems like a happy accident that they did because of the restraining order. And otherwise, it just would have been a bunch of people in the room. But it adds a nice fun, extra editing layer. And you can probably have a lot of fun building a narrative out of it. Yeah, exactly.

It's like a new set of punctuation marks that they are able to use that is really adds a new dimension to how you're able to tell this reunion story, which I think has been. Something that is always like really interesting for fans to watch reunions because you've got all that context. But I feel like it's probably very limiting for the storytelling personalities involved because they're not able. They don't have as many narrative tools that they can use. So giving them something else in the toolbox to help facilitate that within this format is a very welcome edition. Yeah, sometimes you get the best new ideas from having to work around.

restrictions. So that's a great example of that right there. Yeah. So let's let's talk about Raquel. What are your thoughts of how she how she handled things and how she came across here? I thought she didn't. Yeah. I think she did shockingly well considering how we've seen her struggle with difficult conversations in the past. She obviously had a prepared speech. And she delivered it clearly, coherently, didn't like stammer too much, you know, mostly held her composure. And I thought it was a good performance from somebody who we wouldn't necessarily rely on to provide a good performance. She's always been at a little bit of a disadvantage just in terms of like telekinetic qualities compared to some of these people. she doesn't have some of them more visually entertaining qualities that some of them have

like a quick wit or strategy or self-awareness or object permanence. But she takes advantage of what she, of having a temporary platform. And I thought she delivered her lines pretty well and was like pretty like solid on her on her feet. And afterwards, when she's like, when Tom says to her, like, you did a better job than I did. He's right. She did. Like, Tom is the, the canny veteran. He's the reality TV guy who's been around for a long time, who's like the master of strategies. And in that situation, Tom was tripping over his own feet. And Raquel actually did kind of stand tall and say her piece probably more or less as she

imagined it in her head beforehand. So I thought it was a pretty good performance by her. Yeah, I agree. And I think that like one of the things that she has been criticized for throughout this is her lack of emotion. But here it really paid off like that that training that she has from being in in pageants and being very like controlled over expressing her emotion in any way. I think you see that really come out that training is on display during this. reunion. And then when we get the kind of behind the scenes shots that we got during the break, we see her let her guard down a little bit and the emotion come out. I don't think that she is this emotionless monster that they are trying to paint her as. She's giving them lots of ammunition for that during this reunion just because of how, you know, how much composure she's trying to she's trying to keep herself composed. But, yeah, we see when she lets her guard down a little bit.

Like, she's hurting as a result of this. And she doesn't like the person that she is being portrayed as or that she has become. Yeah, like there's often on the show, like I said, she's got kind of like a flat affect or a thousand yards stair going on. But, and again, especially with. the context of that last interview, like having to sit through there under the tension of, you know, lying for Tom and receiving all the abuse from Ariana, maybe somewhat understandably. And then Lala and James a little bit less so, I thought came off like, like some really, really poised and really came off super well. Whereas Tom just keeps, or Sandival, I should say, just sort of keeps like falling into the trap of getting into the arguments. like the yes it matters no it doesn't over and over and Raquel comes off as like more mature in the situation and it's impressive I think to be able to like take all that abuse and just not even do a James Stormoff just sort of calmly walk away to get a sip of water yeah yeah yeah I thought she was leaving for the show when she originally walked off and then she's like I'm just getting some water I'm like oh okay all right yeah and then it's like calmly back another round let's do it it's like a really good um

It's like a martyrdom of Raquel almost. Yeah. Speaking of Tom's performance here, there was a few attempts. I feel like Tom tried to lighten up the mood a little bit, or at least one spot in particular that stands out to me when James is going off on his like poopoo head. You're going to live in a house of poop. And he's like, oh, I'd like to see that actually. You know, a very like teenage boy kind of like trying to get that band.

enter going and James just like shuts him down immediately. It was a illustration of just how much anger there is in this room that he can't break this. He can't even like there's no way to shine a spotlight on how like childish and ridiculous this, this situation is. It's just it's pure anger and hate being directed towards him. Yeah. And just in terms of Raquel's reaction, honestly, like, I try to put myself in that situation. I can't imagine.

Like, I can visualize it. No more than I can visualize, like, being the subject of online hatred like that, too. Like, I literally can't. Like, if I read, like, one negative comment about my work online, it ruins my day. Like, I just can't fathom it. I can't fathom how, like, my brain would deal with that kind of situation. So with stuff like that, I just kind of hope that, like, Raquel has, like, good people around here because I don't know how I would hold up in that

situation at all. Yeah, it's got to be completely brainbreaking. Like, there's no way that you could put me in that exact same situation, and I wouldn't just be like, just melt into a quivering puddle in eight seconds. Yeah, that's surely what I would do. Yeah. Yeah, and I've seen some really ridiculous attempts online at, trying to, you know, mock her.

I've seen people drum up old, like, elementary school yearbook photos where her name is spelled as Rachel and not Raquel. Oh, they got her ass. Yeah. And it's like, okay, you're going to put this picture of Raquel when she's in grade five in student council and you're, it just seems like you're directing your anger at a literal child in this case. And it's like, how do you expect people to like jump on board with with that?

Like, I don't know. Maybe it's just because I've got, I've got kids that just, you know, it just feels so gross to like be directing all this hate at, you know, a person when they were, you know, when they're younger and they've got so much like hope and aspirations. And like they're on like student council, like really trying to do good. that's where you're going to focus your anger on this version of them, not, you know, not even this boogeyman that you've, like,

made Raquel out to be. It's, yeah, it's ridiculous what, what I'm seeing. It's gross. They make, I think,

it's grody. They make, like, way too big a deal about the name thing. Uh, it does not seem like at all relevant to the, the, the source of all their hatred for her.

And even though Raquel doesn't like, she's not super articulate under pressure, she can stumble over her words, but when I think it's Lala is calling her out for that and Raquel has just been like, look, that's like my preferred name that I want to be called, like, you know, you're Lala. And then they get into that weird argument about nicknames.

Yeah, yeah. But I thought like, Raquel handled herself pretty well in pointing that out. And it just kind of illustrates how, ridiculous and irrelevant that it really is to the situation? Yeah, I think it also illustrates kind of what a line of attack is, which is that, well, on the one hand, they want to use it. I think the anti-Rakel Kamp wants to use it as evidence that she's not genuine, that she's presenting herself to be somebody. She's not, but I think it also ties into the idea that people want to tell her that she's not allowed to define herself, that she has to be defined by other people.

And I think that boils down to a lot of like what the fury is swirling around her is, is that she's always been on the show like a pretty like meek person who's kind of like stayed in her lane. And I think this arc that she had this season after her breakup with James, after losing the ability to commute in pageants where she just decides to try to go on a halting journey of discovery. where she tries to define herself by her own terms is what she needed to do in that situation. Like, if you're trying to find yourself, you're never going to find it within the parameters set by other people. And that, I think, really, I mean, obviously, what she did piss people off, but the fact that, like, she would use the language, I guess, of self-discovery to try to explain, like, her thought process. I think is really the thing that's that's setting a lot of people off in a certain way because it's like, you know, how dare you tell us who you are or use this as like your self-definition.

I feel like I'm not expressing myself very clearly. But you know what I'm saying. It's like it's all about like whether we get to define you or whether you get to define yourself. And when somebody's put themselves in a position for so long where they let other people define them and then they say now, I'm going to define myself and does something that like transgresses the boundaries. It's like extra infuriating for the people who thought that they had you put in a box. Yeah. And that's probably the source of Lala's anger because she has been the number one person

trying to keep Raquel in a box while James and her were in a relationship. And so I think you definitely touched on something that is the source of why. Lala seems to be taking this so personally, even though she's one of the least affected people within this group by this whole situation. But to get back to the name thing a little bit, it seems like every effort is being made by everyone both on the cast and in the fandom

to dehumanize Raquel in whatever way possible. Yeah, when she says what she feels at one point, they say you feel nothing. They feel like they have the right to tell her she doesn't feel anything to dictate that to her. And I thought that was a really bizarre, like, sadistic thing to say to somebody. Yeah, and to completely devalue everything that she has done in her past and completely make up a new Raquel that consists purely of this mistake that she has made, this like error in judgment, which, I mean, obviously was very hurtful, but she's not just defined by this. Like James is saying, oh, well, she doesn't win, she's not going to win that page, and she doesn't win those either.

Like, dismissing something that she has been, like, core to her identity for years up until this point, everyone is grasping at pieces of Raquel to try to strip away her humanity and, and tear her down. And like you said, I hope that she is able to, she's surrounded by people that are able to, you know, build her up and, like, support her

because she's obviously going to need that. I, if her and Sandoval are still together, I have my doubts that he would be, you know, the best person for that job. One thing that gives me hope, is we have seen consistently through this season especially how brave and head-on Raquel takes situations. Like she goes into the situation where she's going to tell Katie that she can't go into the cool kids pool or like diving into this reunion. That takes a lot of bravery and like strength in character in order to.

to put yourself in that position. So hopefully that is... Her balls drag out the door, as somebody wants to. Yeah, exactly. Her balls drag out the door. Bang on. But she is able to handle these situations in a way that is very striking to me. And I think it would be striking to anyone that can, you know, get past the anger that they feel by proxy for Ariana.

It is remarkable that she's able to do this. So it gives me hope that she's able to get past this. And another moment that kind of stuck out to me was when Lala was like, oh, I hope you're getting your head evaluated. And Rekyll's like, I am getting my head evaluated. Like, thank you very much. Like, I am talking to a professional. I hope she is.

I hope she is. For sure. Lala is using this as, you know, the fact that, she's being bullied to a point where, you know, she is potentially in some distress mentally as another way, as another weapon. And Raquel is able to be like, well, actually there's, you know, it's good that I am seeing someone to talk about these issues. And we are seeing her still like reevaluating what her mindset was.

we see some introspection there, which is really interesting where she said, oh, you know, I, I think I was discovering myself and the pendulum, you know, went too far the other way this, this summer. I went from being someone that was only worried about pleasing others to someone that was only worried about pleasing myself. And so it seems like she is in spite of this tremendous situation that she's in, that she is, is still continuing this journey to figure out who she is. And it sucks to watch people pull pieces of that away from her wherever they can. But it is remarkable that she is still carrying forward and, you know, figuring out who Raquel is and seems to be trying to grow from this. Yeah, because that's what you got to do in your 20s. You got to try things out and you're going to step on toes and you're going to piss people off. But you've got to try things out to figure out who you are. everybody else in that room has gone through that same process.

They've all gone through that's the same process. And that's good. That's what you do. That's part of it. That's part of life. Raquel is like at least a few years younger than the rest of the main cast, right? Like other than, well, Ali is not main cast, but like everyone's in their 30s except for her. Yeah.

30s or 40s. Yeah. Yeah. So it's, it's kind of funny to see all these like supposedly more mature people putting all that intense pressure and hatred on her. for something literally everyone in that room has also done maybe maybe not katie i don't i haven't gone through the whole series yet but like um yeah i think katy's ariana and calm when he was with christin right yeah uh obviously la la and james when he was with rquel um i mean well schwartz isn't on the side of hating lalla but he's got the or rquel pardon me but he has the thing with rkel like

they've all done the same thing so it's yeah it's rather a it's very strange that there's a that there's level of dehumanization and hatred going toward her for it. Yeah, because that's part of it. They're trying to make her the vessel for everything that they've been attacked for and that they feel guilty about as well. They need a Christ figure for their own romantic sense. They need somebody to tie to the pyre because they think that that will that will fix everything because it'll make it into a show about good guys and bad guys, which has never been a show about good guys and bad guys because it's always just been about fucking people. Yeah, well, it's always been about people who eat at restaurants four times a day.

Yeah. Yeah. And when Raquel says, you know, that's human. And they're like, no, it is. It's not a human behavior. It is human. And you know what? When Tom Saddival says, people are logical, he's right.

People are logical. And this is a show about the spectrum of humanity and goat cheese balls. The Tom logical thing is, yeah, that's a great little moment. He says it and then just because people need to just jump on Tom for saying anything, they're like, yeah, it's not logical. And he's like, well, yeah, that's what I said. That's my point. We weren't acting at a logic. And that's where actually where Lisa's inclusion is kind of a little bit appreciated is that even though I don't always love what Lisa has to say, that our restaurant looks beautiful, amazing. They're calling it one of the best in Las Vegas. But as somebody with like Morling life experience, it's kind of nice to have her occasionally chime in and be like, yeah, you know what?

Like you got a different perspective when you're older. Maybe you won't find this like the worst thing that's ever happened in the world in a bit. Or like when I really like when Katie's like, oh, I don't know, I just see myself being like a cool ad, whoever years in a different country with a different man. And Lisa's like, that sounds like a lot of work. I always love the, the, like, realist perspective from Don Lisa. Love you. Yeah. What did you guys think about the lens that this was shown through?

I think there's definitely a difference between the attitude and the perspective that the audience is viewing this from or the fan base is viewing this from. but what did you think about how the edit presented this story? Well, I think we need to talk about the ending to answer that because honestly, I might need some time to process it, but initially the ending left me furious the way they ended up. Yeah, because the way I read it, the fact that they end, you know, with first with Raquel devalting more information and being like,

broken down by this producer is like prodding pretty easily like getting her to reveal information without like a Tom Sandville nearby to try to get her to keep her story in line. And providing more information, which like, you know, in itself her providing more information is a good luck for her. But the fact that they choose to end it with shots of her looking like really upset and maybe bordering on another panic attack like we've seen from her before. to me, my initial read was that they were trying to frame this as a capstone on the catharsis idea that, oh, look, now she's really unhappy.

She's trapped in a prison of her own making. Her bars are her lies and her guilt. Aren't you happy now? Aren't you happy to see that she's like actually upset and she's getting nothing from this except, you know, anguish and pain? So for me, I initially read that as the series taking the side at the end. After it's been such, done a really good job throughout, I think of being like, being equitable and like being like open and letting everybody tell their story, which as I've often said is what's great about reality TV is you almost can't help but doing that if you're trying to give everybody some like an equal amount of screen time. It's hard to like just enforce a pure heroes and villains.

storyline and everything. And so I thought the camera's lens had been doing a good job showing everybody. And if it ends that way, to me, I thought it was the camera sitting down with James at Lala and taking the side of the cruelty and the sadism and saying that this is what you want. This is what we're giving it to you. We're going to show her hurting. We're going to show her hurting.

if that ends up being like the final seconds of van derpump rules as a show, that's either like a horrific ending that like betrays all the equanimity in favor of this like fake moral sadism or it's a brilliant ending that like pulls the curtain aside and reveals the whole show as an exercise in saddened sadism. That has been like tricking us. thinking that it was a show about humanity all along. The producer, Gaspar, no. You know what?

I won't argue that it is an exercise in sadism, but that is a completely different read than I got off this ending. And I'm kind of surprised. I can see how you would interpret it that way. But for me, it was a matter of framing Raquel as, hey, look, she is also a victim of Tom Sandoval's. manipulation and kind of a reminder to viewers that, you know, she's, look how easily Raquel is manipulated. She was manipulated by this producer into, you know, telling the truth so easily.

She's easily swayed. And we get her, you know, not just giving the timeline, which I don't think is like the big, huge reveal and revelation that, you know, that it's made out to be. I think that's not what was surprising to me. The surprising insight that I got from that was just how much of this, how much of Raquel's perspective and how much of her story and how she's operating was completely controlled by Tom Sandoval. I feel like that was what was revealed during that because so much of this truth that is

like trickling out, we're getting a timeline that we basically already knew. But what we're actually getting insight into is, you know, oh, Tom Sandoval, you know, didn't want us to talk about us having sex more than once because, you know, we, we, he said that it would be less hurtful that way. And, you know, that contrast, what Ariana has said, you know, know, just a few minutes earlier within the reunion where she said, you know, one time or a million times, it doesn't matter. And so we're seeing her be like, okay, well, you know, this perspective that I'm getting from Tom Sandowals, this is the subtext, not what she's outright saying. You know, this is the perspective and this is why I wasn't truthful. It was because Tom said to do it this way.

And then we completely see her like fall apart where she's trying to maintain this one last lie for Tom about hooking up the the dipped out night, the jacuzzi night. Yeah. And she completely like falls apart and, you know, it feels like the type of, I didn't see Tom Sandoval as a predator until this, this, clip because, you know, it was, it got that kind of like, you tell anyone about this, everyone's going to know that you're this like filthy slut. Like, you know, the type of sexual predator move to like blackmail someone into keeping quiet the manipulation that they have experienced.

And she has very much internalized this. this perspective that Tom has forced on her like, you know, it's going to be such a bad look for you to hook up with me while Ariana is out of town at a funeral. Well, yeah. Yeah, for sure. For sure it is. But it feels like she has been so heavily manipulated by Tom. And, you know, we talk about like Kaiser Soze moments within reality shows. when we were talking about the Real Housewives of New Jersey finale.

But this was like a Kaiser Soze moment for me where it's like thinking back on all these instances where Tom and Raquel have interacted and being like, oh, there's manipulation at play, especially, you know, in the first reunion where we got the lunch break where he is desperately trying to get some time with her off camera to manipulate. her even more. So I read this as trying to be a bit of a contrast from what we saw during the reunion where we're just seeing Raquel as a punching bag to giving her this victim moment where she hasn't really got that since the Scandivall broke. Sure. I guess for me, I don't see her as a total victim like that. What you're saying is it's a very good point. And I think we've known more and more as the show is going on, how like sleazy Tom Sandoval can be. And, you know, when he was asked about like if they hooked up in the jacuzzi and he says absolutely not, right? Then I was like, okay, he did. Like, you know, he wouldn't have said it so firmly if it wasn't like something that he was trying to cover it up. I do think that we should credit Raquel's words, though, when she says that, uh,

describing why she felt she had to do this. And she talks about feeling like she wanted to be physical with somebody that she really felt like she loved for the first time in her life. And feeling that this was like really important for her to have that experience. I think we should we should credit her words a bit in that. And I think it's maybe not totally fair to her if we treat her just as a victim of manipulation, which might be true to some extent. But that's like very thorny. it's a very thorny thing to untangle, right?

To decide like what is manipulation, what is people doing what they feel is best for them in the moment. That's hard to, that can be hard to untangle and probably maybe unfair for us to do from this vantage point. But I think if we take like her words at face value and we should, she was probably, she was an in an actor acting on what she thought was best for her. And I think she did a decent job of explaining why she felt it was like,

important for her as a person at that point to to engage in that relationship. Yeah. Yeah. I guess I think the contrast between our initial reads of this is I don't feel like it was the show reducing the situation to black and white, which is something that I think the show has done a very good job of doing is keeping, keeping this as something that exists on like a gradient. It felt like it was a moment to balance a balancing moment. It was a balancing moment. Yeah, I can see that. Yeah. For sure. Yeah.

Somewhat of a synthesis of the two views where if that were to be the last, like, images we had of Vanderpub rules, it would be profoundly depressing. Yeah. But it also is like assuming and hoping for a season 11, I think it's a good. like cliffhanger and slight turn into exploring that or putting more like apparent conflict with the Sandoval and like driving more of that.

So I would be very interested to see how that shakes out with everyone's, I'm sure very loud reactions to sandevals, whatever amount of manipulation it is, like even the coaching and stuff. Yeah. Kind of like pivots a little bit away. from martyrdom Raquel and maybe

getting more, like shining a light on on Sandable's actions a bit more. That's what I hope for anyway. Another thing that I was really impressed with in terms of the edit on this, the editors were able to provide receipts on behalf of Raquel when she was being attacked by Lala.

they, you know, anytime Lala was trying to, as Raquel pointed out, rewrite history, the edit would bring back a clip and, you know, keep it honest. So I feel like if the edit was trying to go for a purely black and white read, or not a purely, but just kind of end on that note,

they wouldn't have done that. Yeah, though I do think that, you could make a case that Lala actually was being a little bit done dirty there when they show a clip of her saying like, I'm a mistress, I'm a homewrecker. What she's saying is this is what people have called me. She's not saying this is what the woman always what I actually am. So I think you could actually say that they're kind of being sketchy towards Lala there. I think I was justifying like Rakel's read on the situation. She might not have interpreted that way.

So, yeah. It is interesting to note that in that original scene, Lala is exactly right. Everybody hates Raquel and Tom is so far not getting away with it, but is definitely receiving, I think, less of the abuse and vitriol during the reunion. Yeah, I've talked a lot about the duality of Lala and that was her best like good Lala moment in this, this season. And this episode was Bad Lala basically burying Good Lala, six. feet under. Lala's very vexing. She is, yeah.

It's a tough world being a Lala fan. I checked out. Did you guys have any final thoughts on the reunion? Not really. I mean, I could easily think of two worst people, by the way. Look up pole pot, Arianna.

I can think of a lot of worse people. But, no, I think we covered a lot of ground. And I'm glad that I feel like my team Raquel perspective has taken root a little bit more here because I hope that more people kind of come around to that idea because like just glancing at the online reaction as we've covered extensively. I think it's a little a little grim and depressing for me. Yeah, you've got that championship window open for sure. Awesome. Well, thank you guys so much for doing this. This has been a wild ride of a season.

Sean, do you want to let people know where they can find you? If you're inclined to look, you can find me Sean's haircut on various social media. Awesome. And Dylan yourself? Dylan Ferguson on Substack. Awesome. This has been Bravo Outsider Special Vanderpump Unit. Tune in tomorrow. We're going to have an episode where we cover the Real Housewives of New Jersey reunion. Way more fun. Real Housewives of Atlanta. and the return of Tamara on Real Housewives of Orange County with Outsider Benjee Rothman.

You can find us wherever you're listening to this. We're on YouTube. Bravo Outsider.com. Follow us on Instagram at Bravo Outsider on Twitter at Bravo underscore Outsider. Oh, I actually temporarily changed our Twitter handle to Bravo Lover, 12, 3, 4 in honor of Rachel Fuda. That's not a joke I did. I mean, it is a joke, but I did.

Yeah. Okay, so search us out on Twitter. You'll find us. I've made it hard, but you will. Yeah. Until next season, keep on pumping. Keep on pumping. Getting pumped up.