Oscars Outsider - Vanderpump Rules S11E06 & VPR S11E07 Recap/Analysis

Episode Date: March 15, 2024

This week hosts Craig Midwinter and Dylan Ferguson are digging into S11E06 and S11E07 of Vanderpump Rules. 🍸Featured Bravolebs: Vanderpump Rules: Lisa Vanderpump, Tom Schwartz, Tom Sandoval, Ariana Madix, Katie Maloney, Scheana Shay, Lala Kent, James Kennedy, Ally Lewber, Brock Davies 📣 Stay Connected: Find Dylan Ferguson on Substack at https://dylanferguson.substack.com/ Find Bravo Outsider on Instagram at ⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/bravooutsider https://www.bravooutsider.com 📖 Credits Music by FASSounds from Pixabay #vanderpumprules #bravo #realitytv #pumprules #scandoval

Hello and welcome to the Bravo Outsider Podcast. I'm your host Craig Midwinter, joined as always by Dylan Ferguson. Dylan, how's it going? Good, good, good. Did you have a good Oscars night, Craig? I had an excellent Oscars night. How about you? Was it everything you hoped for?

And more. I actually thought it was like a better than usual one this year. Yeah, I agree. I mean, nothing's going to top like having a moment like the slap, but just in terms of like being a pretty decently enjoyable evening. of like okayish jokes, some fun moments, some good performances. Pretty, pretty solid Oscars, man. Yeah, I didn't get the shut out I was looking for for Oppenheimer,

but overall I felt like the wins were fairly satisfying. There wasn't anything that like really angered me. So, yeah, I was pretty happy with it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was a good time. Cool. Well, since we had our Oscar special last week, we have two episodes of Vanderpump Rules to talk about. And these were doozies.

I really found both of them enjoyable. So I'm glad that we're covering them. Let's dive right into it. Let's start with, I guess, episode six last week's episode. What were your thoughts on this? Did you, what did you take away from the storytelling on this? I continue to just be so impressed by what the team they've got piece in these shows. does. The storytelling is great. The visual choices are really great. I like how so much of

the narratives that we've been building towards have happened, I feel, not even necessarily through pieces of confessionals and dialogue within scenes. There's also just like smart choices in terms of like seating and reaction shots that guide the viewer into what to look forward to. like the building idea that Lala is developing a new third-way perspective on the Tiberiata versus Tom Camp and the fact that she's seeing her girl, Sheena, get put in such a very difficult, stressful situation and that this is making her Lala that much more angry towards Arianna's sides in flexibility and considering like trying to to shake up the friend dynamic. So much of that is being communicated just by like showing Lala's face while she like watches

Sheena talk while she watches the group interact with each other. And like we actually end episode six, I think with like a bit of a slow zoom on Lala's face as she's like trying to comfort Sheena. Sheena is trying to work out her emotions. that kind of stuff is like so good. Yeah, totally. It just tells the story so well without needing the people on camera to spell it out for you. Yeah, I feel like they're doing a really good job of having a lot of proxies,

like building a lot of proxies because like you said, Lala's the one that I immediately kind of project myself into her position because the way that she seems to view the situation is, a lot more logical and I feel like I identify with like her thought process behind all of this. But I think that the show is giving a very like, there's ample amount of characters that you could project yourself onto depending on how you view the situation.

Like I'm sure there's a lot of people that are projecting themselves onto how Katie's navigating the situation with this like heartline team Ariana or like year out type of perspective and I Schwartz is another potential like opportunity

to project yourself onto him in certain situations as he's like in the role of this friend that is trying to help you know the villain kind of go on their apology tour or their redemption tour and not it not really like

not having the best approach to it. I love the scene that we got... Just being so bad at everything. Yeah, I love the scene that we got in the gondola where Schwartz, like, literally just shrivels down into a ball while Brock and Tom have this argument in the gondola. Either Raquel nor I, Rachel nor I, did any of this with the intention of hurting anyone?

The way you guys reacted was very intentionally trying to hurt both Raquel. Bro, your girl put a restraining... order on my wife because she got punched in the goddamn face right sandval's just not taking any sort of accountability when this is like the perfect opportunity and shorts as someone who's like this natural like people pleaser who is always like their number one concern is you know what what can i reflect onto this person like what do they want to hear from me he's he's so acutely aware of whatever someone else in the situation wants because he's always his

entire life, been looking to give that to them. And for him to see, like, Tom Sandoval do the exact opposite of this, you can see the physical reaction to it. It's just such a, um, such a great moment. Yeah, and Schwartz just lacks so much confidence in like his whole approach right now. It's really funny to watch. Like, he can't even confidently say that like, like, it's clearer out today than it was yesterday. He's just like, yeah, it seems like, like I can see better.

Does that make sense? Maybe, I don't know. Like, I guess I do need glasses. says to Brock like, says to Brock like, yeah, look at the view. You see this man? And Brock's like, yeah, yeah, I see it, buddy. Just like, stop talking, man.

It's just continues to be really funny that that Schwartz has put in this position and just wiltz. Yeah, totally. I think the, like, what I had the most notes for in terms of storytelling was just how the meditation session was put together. I really love how.

how they played with tension during this, where it would oscillate from having this sereneness to it, and then immediately cut to this montage that seemed like, almost like you would see in a Vietnam War movie of like a flashback to like the carnage of Scandamol. Try to hear the lapping of the lake. I want you to feel the air on your skin. I want you to almost feel like you're playing a movie

of your life. They were going to become really good friends. I don't give a No, it's not. Yes, it is. Okay, you have to. Oh, God.

How it went back and forth between the serenity and that conflict. I thought that that contrast was really great. And the way that they cut this together and what the person that was conducting the session was saying

was just like, it seemed so well constructed. Like it was almost like a producer was leading the session, like knowing exactly what to say at the right moment. Yeah, because it feels like such a setup, right? Yeah, totally. There's no way this, Shannon, I think was her name, the instructor.

There's no way she's just like, oh, I'm just going to do my thing, what I always do. Like, it's been so set up by either Sandoval or production, or probably both together, right? to be like to make sure that like he and Sheena are like back to back in physical contact. And then the things that she's saying like, now look into each other's eyes and imagine what your life would be like if they just disappeared. Yeah. This is such a set up specific set up specifically aimed at Sheena. Like it's just all designed to make Sheena crack. It's almost like like just brutal on Tom in the production's part to like set it up.

that badly just to like give her like this emotional torture session to like to force her to confront her feelings towards end of all in that way yeah like right down to like brock arriving late like just setting it up so that she is at the most emotional point they probably had like producers out like golfing in and in the foursome in front of brock so that he would intentionally be slow and like starting a car accident on the interstate on the way back just to make sure that he's late. Yeah, really. It probably doesn't take that that much with Brock, really.

You know, just like slide him a couple extra coronas or something. Yeah. It just forgets completely what he had to do that day. I do like how we get to see him like really drunk later, later on to in the episode, right? Where he's like, yeah, I get it, man. Like, I was in love with the pig farmer's daughter next door. There's a lot of things

I don't like about Katie A lot of things I know she has a pure soul She was willing to date me When I had nothing You know what I mean I love that Me too

My first love was The farmer's daughter That live next door A pig farmer What do you say it like that She was a pig farmer Her dad was a pig farmer And I live next door

Milking cows What are you talking about Dude Yeah, that's really good. I think this was a really good episode for Brock. We got to see a lot of variety from him, just down to him being like kind of shitty in terms of like, are being at least not aware emotionally of what Sheena's needs are in this like meditation session and showing up late.

But then we got to see a really like strong supportive showing when he, he's standing up for her in the gondola. And then, yeah, to see him, you know, just like party too hard and come home, drunk. And a lot of variety to what he gave us. Yeah, yeah. We got a lot of different sides of Brock. Lots of fun. Yeah, let's get into our highlights here.

What highlights did you have written down? Well, for sure, though, the meditation scene was kind of the crux of the episode. And it's interesting also how we, Sandoval, after that seems to be making progress with Lala too in terms of like bringing out her sympathies, which she's already been becoming a little bit more sympathetic towards Sandoval's perspective a bit, like very hesitantly. And I thought it was really interesting how they have the confrontation on the boat where it, Sanneval kind of loses his edge in terms of gang, garnering sympathy for himself by getting too angry, by pushing too hard, which is something we've seen him do a number of times, right? Like, he seems to be having somebody kind of coming towards his perspective, but then he really doubles down on his whole like, oh, and everybody's so hard on me all the time and like really gets angry about it. And then that makes him less sympathetic.

It makes it harder to indulge in his perspective. And he absolutely does that with a bad person to do that with. And she blows up against him. And he just squanders the work he's done. But then what's interesting about that scene is then we have Sheena come in to talk to him. So the work that he's done with Sheena is what saves him in that point. Totally. He's saved from losing the work he was doing with Lala because of the work he'd done with Sheena earlier. So we see kind of his multi-prong strategy pay dividends in that moment on the boat. Yeah, totally.

I love that this scene, how this scene starts is like Tom offering to share oxygen. with Ali and Lala. And it's just like, it's a can of like air that they're sharing. But just this offer to share oxygen is like just such great symbolism. Because really that's what he's looking to do. He's wanting to share the space. Yeah. It was symbolic of the effort that he's making really starting to like set pay dividends.

The effort that he's making too to try to kind of weaponize his interiority. He's trying, he's really making a show about. like having his conflicted inner world. We see him journaling at the start in like the opening montage, which is a beautiful montage. We see him journaling. And we get some of his thoughts. If you,

you know, you'd have to like pause the screen to read them. And some of it's also been redacted as if like, it's like government documents from a freedom of information act request, which is really funny. But like that kind of like journaling for the camera is kind of sums up a lot of what he's been doing so far this season to both get his cast members to try to show sympathy to him and obviously the viewers too to just try to get everybody to try to think about the fact that he

has this this inner world that's that's undergoing this torturous process and it's it's very different from what we've been seeing from Ariana too like we see that we see Tom's spectacle of interiority kind of contrasted with her very outward methods of trying to deal with her attempts to process and move forward with her life. You know, she's doing a photo shoot. She's got a new book coming out. She's working at all these projects. It's very exteriorizing and it's very like I'm not going to think about or at least

not going to show that I'm thinking about that I'm dwelling on these things inside myself, right? It's Ariana's perspective, at least what she's showing everybody, is all about, like, it's all external. It's all, I'm doing things. I'm actively doing things and like there's been very little evidence of internal processing. Yeah, she's productizing it by.

Exactly. Yeah. She's, she's, you know, working on things outside of herself. Whereas Tom's trying to wield this kind of interiority. It's interesting to see these like, these contrasts of these two different approaches to how they try to move forward and how they try to get other people on their side as well. But you mentioned that opening montage that we got and that was one of my highlights. Just seeing the, you know, you got that like that morning mood, Greek piece playing. Yeah, the classic morning music.

Yeah. Did he ever ever intend that or it's just like the culture at large? just decided this is going to be morning music. Isn't it called morning mood? I think. Probably. That makes sense. I literally don't know what it's called.

So there you go. I love that. It was interrupted by, you know, like a scream like it often is. But the piece that they had to do the interrupt was James yelling, where are my chocolates?

Right. Very weird. I was like, am I supposed to know about us chocolates? I don't think we've had these introduced. Really good. And then Schwartz having a little moment,

seeing a J, which just kind of sweet. Yeah, symbolizes, what did he say? Symbolizes strength and communication or something. Just clearly pulling that out of his ass. Like, what do we need right now? Strength and communication. Yeah, that's what the J symbolizes.

Yeah. Also, technically not a Blue J, which is what he says. it's a Stellars Jay, but I'll let it pass. I think we covered most of my highlights from this episode. Did you have anything that you wanted to mention? A little bit, yeah. Like, I'm getting more and more interested by Katie.

We'll maybe talk more about her in the next episode. But in season six, I was really starting to become increasingly apparent that how hardline Arianna's approach is, it might be more of a function of having Katie on her shoulder all the time. Potentially, like, Katie really seems to have this attitude of convincing Ariana. Like, I am your one true disciple. You can freeze them all out, but I'm your friend. I'm the one who you should be deputizing. Totally.

What was interesting about the scene that we got with Ariana and Katie doing the interviews is when when Katie compared it to being like an American. American Idol judge. Yeah. I feel like I'm doing like American Idol. I'm Randy Jackson. She immediately identified as Randy Jackson instead of Simon Cowell. That just like doesn't track for me.

She's like if there's a Simon here, it's Katie. Yeah. Yeah, totally. The the job interview thing was really funny too for me because they have like, you know, one business partner who is clearly a lot more of a seasoned professional than they are. and Arianna's like, will you like stop talking? Like she's like,

there's a confessional. She's like, she keeps asking these questions. Like, oh, let me talk. And then Arieta like takes a phone call and just like starts like, like talking at her phone while her business partner just sits there next

her while she's talking to her friend. Like maybe you should be thankful you've got a professional business partner here. Like actually doing the heavy lifting. And you need somebody like that on your side too. Like I would appreciate having somebody like Penny because I would have just hired Brent because he had a cool pickle tie. Yeah. I would have canceled the rest of the interviews for the day.

This dude showed up in a pickle tie. Yeah, I feel like that pretty much covers the highlights of this particular episode. Let's pick our stars for this episode. Who are your stars? Hmm. Let's see here. You know what, let's give Sheena first star. She's, her emotions, her vulnerability has been,

like just a huge engine of this season so far. And just like, unlike Sandoval's like very weaponized emotions, she does seems just unable to control hers. And I think it's been really watching her deal with this. I think there's also almost an element of like PTSD for her from like having been iced out from being one of the girls in the past. Yeah. Like she's so,

she's so terrified of the possibility of that happening again. because of Sandoval. And I think that's causing her so much stress right now in combination of their stress about being a mother and a relationship with Brock and all the rest. So just having that intense vulnerability, which is also this fulcrum that is being used by other people that Tom Sandoval is actively trying to exploit

that emotional vulnerability. Sheena or Lala is completely like switching up our strategies because of Sheena's vulnerability. We see this like drive to protect her and defend her, especially coming up near the end of this episode in their conversation. And it's just, it's very interesting emotionally and because it's causing so much to happen, so much reorganization of the group around it.

Let's give Sheena first star. Second star, well, let's go to Shannon because, you know what? It's putting people in places, making, making things happen at the behest of presumably others. And yeah, and a third star, DeLala, too. For you. Yeah, I agree. Number one star, Sheena. I think that, like, she really is, like, always putting herself out there. I am always in awe of how much Sheena is willing to give to the camera. and she's just such a great reality TV personality. And I think that, yeah, she is very authentic in what she gives.

And I thought it was a really, yeah, I thought it was a really honest, like, conflicted performance from her. And so, yeah, big props to her. Shannon as well, you're right. just like such a star coming in there and really like stirring shit up during that meditation session and yeah i i think i actually also want to give a star to brock because i feel like he gave a lot to us there was like just so much going on in this between the dynamics between like brock and the guys and brock and china and china and the guys i don't often get the opportunity to praise brock and

don't often want the opportunity to praise him. But here I think it's warranted. And yeah, so he gets, he gets a start from me. Nice. Let's talk about the next episode, episode seven. Anything stand out to you in terms of storytelling here? Like, just circling back to what I talked about the previous episode. And I was saying how so much of the storytelling is being done by choice.

close-ups on the expressions of cast members' faces. That's doing a lot of the work that actual dialogue isn't. I think that really applies to Lala, who we finish on the previous episode. And I think that applies even more to Katie in episode seven, the most recent one, where, like, her stern looks, her angry gazes is doing like a lot of the work of, like, showing that we're coming to a head in this conflict. Yeah, totally. The storytelling mechanic that stood out to me here

was based on something that Ariana, like one of the first things that she says when Tom comes home and she's like, yeah, Tom Sandoval coming home, it's like the wicked witch of the West. Tom St. Naval coming back from Tahoe. It's like wicked witch of the West flying around.

I would love to click my heels three times except the Martin. I was like, what? Okay, she's putting herself as like Dorothy in this situation. I don't really get where this comparison actually is. So I have a question for you. Who do you think is who in the Wizard of Oz crew if we were to recast with Vanderpump Rules characters? All right.

All right. So we've got the three, Darcy's, there are these three companions. Cowardly Lion. That sounds like Tom Schwartz to me right there. Oh, okay. In terms of missing courage. That's just what I was talking about on the previous episode. It was precisely missing courage.

So that makes sense to me. Do we have to stick with Sandoval being the Wicked Witch of the West? Because that's what Lala, or that's what Ariana said? No, okay. All right. So then there's the scarecrow is lacking a brain and the tin man's lacking a heart, right? Or is the other way around. No, that's the way it is.

Yeah. If we could recast Sandoval, I think the tin man is like a good fit. it for him. Okay. The one who's lacking a heart, right? Like, that's kind of, that's what he's being widely accused of is, uh, yeah, I had Katie cast as the tin man for, for no heart. Sure, for the same reason.

That works too. Yeah. Um, and, uh, and then the scarecrow who doesn't have a brain. That could be Schwartz too, actually, could think of it. But, uh, you could. Yeah. You could definitely put. James Kennedy in that role, especially in this episode, he definitely comes off as like,

especially stupid. Like when Sandoval shows up and is like, hey, I got these sunglasses. You want to try them on? They're yours, man. And he's like, oh, he's just great. Yeah, sunglasses. He's always giving me gifts and I've never lost them. And Ali's just looking at him.

Like, is that, it was really that easy to change your convictions? Like, just here's a present and then you immediately flop. Like, that's all it took. so sure let's let's go with that oh and graham's obviously toto right oh yeah obviously um and i mean those are the core characters so i don't i don't uh i don't think i need to go further than that yeah i think that's a that's a pretty good casting oh wait wait wait LVP is is obviously the um the wizard totally yeah yeah yeah yeah LVP is us sure yeah the wizard yeah um the wizard yeah so i was thinking

about this and I did constrain myself to, you know, what Ariana has said being canon. If she is Dorothy and Tom is the wizard, I had to limit myself to Dorothy's companions actually being companions of Ariana. Sure. You were thinking more narratively than I was. I was just trying to slot characters into traits. Yeah. Yeah. So I, one thing that happened during this episode as I was thinking about this was Lisa Vanderpump comes to Lala's office And Lala introduces her assistant Jessica as her brain And Lala says, I don't have a brain So scarecrow, bam, done

Hi, Lisa, good to see you. Have you met Jessica, my brain? Your brain. I don't like the heard one. Well, I don't, that's why I hired one. Yeah. Like I said, Katie doesn't have a heart. I think that was an easy one.

And I put Sheena as the cowardly line, mostly because she actually makes a visit to Lisa Vanderpump. And Lisa Vanderpump, the wizard, tries to give her some courage and is really trying to, like, motivate her to stand up. And I thought that this was actually a pretty good fit for these characters. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, actually. Yeah. And I picked Allie as Toto because she's just kind of like blindly following along. Yeah. Yeah, let's get into our highlights here.

What highlights do you have? I like the thing that finally pushes Sheena over the edge to actually be willing to maybe criticize Arianna as that Ariana got dancing with the stars instead of Sheena getting it. Like that was like that was what she needed. That was the last straw she needed to like get over her fear of being like treated as not a good friend and like actually be somewhat critical of Ariata. That was clearly very important to her, and she clearly felt that as a betrayal.

So I enjoy that intrusion of dancing with the stars. Sheena even started taking dance lessons for dancing with the stars in case she got it. And Arianna was her backup dancer. Come on. But really, I'm just like really interested in Katie, who I think is, I don't have a ton of sympathy for,

Katie's perspective just because she is like so harsh and and wants everything to be black and white. And it's just like it has so little time to listen to any other kind of any kind of nuance and anything like when they're when the law comes in and is talking about like she does feelings and stuff and she literally is just like I want this conversation to be over. Like I don't want this to I don't want this discussion to happen. Even after it is already finished happening. Yeah. Yeah. So I find that interesting. But we also like, she also gets a little bit emotional on that same too. So I appreciate that that we get a little bit more of like an insight into like

why she's being that way besides just wanting to be like the most team Ariana person. The most like, like I said, like she seems she seems just to want to be her most trusted disciple and will happily have everybody else get iced out just so it can be Katie and Ariana are riding side by side. seems totally happy with that outcome and wants to bring that outcome about. But also, we get to see how much she's motivated also by just loathing Sandoval. Like, she just hates Sandoval. She seems like when she gets emotional, she just seems to blame him for her, Katie being seen negatively in like the breakup between her and Schwartz. I don't know if she just still blames him for the breakup, but like blames.

I think she definitely does. Yeah. Yeah. And also for like being perceived as like the bad one and the breakup too. Like she just seems to. She clearly has so much like rage and hatred towards Sandoval because of his role in her relationship. And,

and we get a little bit of glimpse in that when she gets emotional. So we could we can start to understand a little bit more where she's coming from because she kind of gets a little worked up and then says more than she usually does. Yeah. I thought that this was actually really, like this really made me feel for Katie a lot more because one of the things I love about reality TV is that we have so much nuance in the,

like the approaches of the characters take. It's not just like, it's not flat. And you can actually see in this whole mess how everyone's history is influencing how they're operating. Like I think like Katie, is just like so resentful towards tom sandival for all the reason you mentioned and like blames him more than she blamed schwartz for the like the the the fracture in the relationship between her and and schwartz and that like how she's using this as like the perfect opportunity to just get that out and make sure that people everyone else hates him too and um She's so happy to have someone finally on her side that because she's felt so isolated from this. And so I really like see where Katie is coming from.

I like and I I do have sympathy for Katie. Like I've always mentioned like I feel like Katie is so essential to this show. And she is she has taken a lot of abuse from the fan base since like season one of this. And so to have this opportunity where she feels like some vindication. She feels like she's on the right side of things. And I can totally get where she's coming from. And I really, like you said, I love that she was getting emotional about this. And we got to see that perspective.

And one thing that I can kind of feel within the fandom is like, obviously right now, Ariana can kind of do no wrong. But any like any sort of doubt or any sort of. negative feelings that people have towards like Ariana, like team Ariana is being expressed and put on to Katie because like the fandom is just like comfortable calling Katie a bitch because she's, they're just labeling her as a bitch.

And she's always had that label and they're happy to like continue applying that to her. And like she doesn't need to do anything. And people feel like they've got a reason to call her that. So I feel like really bad. for Katie because I'm sure in the moment she was like I'm going to be on the right side of the history and now

that the edit and time is making people see a bit more nuance of the situation and healing the wounds a little bit and her like she's the face of this like rigid hard line that Ariana is taking and it's not really her fault

that Ariana is taking this in my opinion this I mean I think they're kind of influencing each other in that way they're working each other up. I think Katie is also really encouraging Ariana to hold a firm line. Yeah, true. But I feel like it's kind of

disproportionate the way that people are going to express their anger and their resentment over this hard line to Katie versus like Ariana. So I feel bad for her. And

one of the things that I think was like really interesting about this is the dynamic between Katie and Sheena because like Sheena is also someone who's like the way she's navigating the situation is so influenced by her history because she's constantly being like on the outs of whatever the the girl group is is doing like she's never able to like really fit in and she has never received much loyalty from the the women in in this group and so for like Katie to be like Oh, you just have to like man up and be like blindly team Ariana or for Ariana to expect that. I just did that. I just projected this onto Katie. See, see how easy it is?

But for for them to actually take this, you know, this hard line and expect Sheena to tow it when she has historically felt way more embraced by the men in the group. I think like it's kind of a misread on, you know, Sheena's history. Sheena does have a genuine friendship with Ariana. So yes, obviously that makes sense that that's where her loyalty would be. But she also does have a long friendship with Tom Sandoval. And so that makes things also really difficult for her. And I think Sheena is not the most well-spoken person. I don't think she can really articulate this.

And that's one of the things I see really front. frustrating her and like making the fans not really receive her perspective is the fact that you know she says well why can't it be about me for once and like she does always like thinking about about herself but really what she's saying right now is like she's trying to get people to understand that it's like a complicated situation for her as well it's like not as clear cut for her as it is for other people who can like clearly say I have, you know, been so wrong that it makes sense for me to cut off Tom Sandoval. That's not what Sheena's experience has been because she has seen this behavior play out within this like friend group dozens of times and have people like come back and be well received and like people not being completely like cut out of the, the friend group because they've chosen to associate with someone who has like cheated on someone. And so for her now to be like, well, I didn't do anything wrong.

I've like written with you, Ariana, but also I've got all these feelings that I need to acknowledge with my relationship with Sandoval. I can see how she would see that as unfair and how she thinks that the way she's operating is not, is not like anti-Ariana. She's just trying to get through her and deal with her own like feelings about the situation. She's trying to put her oxygen mask on first. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But like you said that she is coming from a place of experience. And that's also what Lala's doing, which she like makes a very big point of doing in that scene is that, which was just a great, a great scene to have the four girls there.

Well, technically five girls. But, you know, that, that, yeah, Lala's saying, you know, I've been through a terrible breakup and I have the worst X in the world. and like I'm saying that you're just hurting yourself by being, you know, this inflexible. And right now you're hurting Sheeta too. And I think it's kind of sweet the way she like rides in as Sheeta's champion. And then since Katie's really taking the place of being Ariad as champion, it's, it's kind of like when we finally get like Katie versus Lala somewhat, it's it's like they're both there to defend the other person. they're sitting next to in that scene. Yeah, totally.

They each had a like a pit bull that they were wielding. And yeah, and all of them are drawing from these reserves of personal experience and all of them are coming with their perspectives that are shaped by their own personal experience. Except for Ali, who's just there like, look, the star charts say that we're all different. Shut up, Ellie. The adults are talking. Did you have any other highlights from? this episode?

Yeah. Uh, Joe. Yes. Okay. Yeah. If you weren't going to bring her up, I was. Obviously. We've got way too long without bringing up Joe.

Um, hilarious. Like, just, like, just what do you think that? Like, Tom Schwartz is the most, like, millennial-coded, like, adorkeable person around. Suddenly we've got Joe fucking gangnam styling up. to glomp you and just being like, hey guys, brup, boop. Just like an absolute bombardment of that like so random millennial humor and just like,

if a spider had a voice, what would it sound like? What do you think? Is she like that 24-7? It's amazing. I do. I love seeing that, though. I do because it's like there was a time like 15 years. years ago where I felt like every second white woman was like that. And I feel like I never

encounter that like that kind of like very millennial, so random, adorkeable persona as much these days that I kind of forget that they're still out there until something like makes me realize that there's still a bunch of them out there, like when like everything everywhere all at once was like a huge hit. Right. Yeah. And won the Oscar. I was like, oh, right. Like, like, people who like that kind of stuff are still all over the place. Like it's still. Or like when I watch the Super Bowl and like every year it'll be. an ad with like Zach Brath and Donald Faison. And I'd be like, who the fuck?

Who cares about scrubs in 2024? Then I'm like, oh, right. Yeah, Joe probably loves scrubs. She probably still watches it every day. So happy to see her. Happy to have her there. Yeah. It's amazing.

Every like moment that she is on camera, it feels like we're watching an improv class. Like she's got such like improv energy. It is so kinetic. and I don't think I can think of anyone on reality TV that behaves the way that she does. It is, it's wild. And I love to see it. I hope that we see more.

The fact that we got a confessional from her is, you know, it made my day because that means we're getting more Joe. Yeah, really, really excited. And I hope that, you know, as this progresses, that we see more of her in future seasons and that she, you know, continues to have this energy and she doesn't like tamper it down a bit because I love it.

It's so chaotic. Like even when she's like not talking, you can see her in the background going like like do too do like crazy crazy face. And it's amazing. Yeah. She even uses terms like catch feelings that are like just like, oh people still say that stuff.

Like you know, and of course when she hangs it with Tom, they're going a place where they can like play ski ball and drink craft beer. Like it's just it's It's great It's beautiful Yeah I was saying to Jess

While we were watching like Joe has such tourist vibes Like none of these people are from Los Angeles And like Joe hasn't is like not a new arrival in Los Angeles And everyone there's like they seem like they belong in Los Angeles Except for Joe She seems like she just like landed and is ready to like You know see what's what in Los Angeles and like like, you know, Wisconsin girl in the big city.

And, yeah, it's just such tourist energy. It's amazing that she is, I don't know, if she's been living in a bubble or something. But it's, yeah, it's remarkable. Yeah. You feel like every time she's going out, it's going to be like, oh, I hear there's an axe throwing place or like, you know, there's a place where you can play laser tag and then they have soft serve ice cream. more. I want to see a close-up of her hands because she for sure has the mustache tattoo. Oh, yeah.

On her finger. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Absolutely. Yeah. Any other highlights from this episode? There's still, there's a bit of the ghost of Rachel in this episode, which I like.

We hear from Lisa that she spoke with Rachel and then that wrote Tom to talk about her a little bit. I do like a little reference to the fact that, Tom Sandville apparently said to Rachel that life is lying is the quote that Rachel also says that he said to her. And I do appreciate that because that really kind of seems to strike at the heart of a reason why it was just never going to work out between them. Because like this, Sandoval is just such a creature of this reality TV world that he lives in. I mentioned this in a previous episode, but I really enjoyed that profile in the New York, New York Times Magazine,

not so much because of the quotes they got out of Sandville, but just the writer's observations of how he just seems to be constantly living in a reality TV world, even in the offseason, even when the cameras aren't turning, the way he speaks, the way his kitchen is lit and everything is all designed for what's best for reality TV. and I just think that he, and maybe Lisa Vanderpump, too, who is also obviously somebody who's been in that world for so long,

that there really isn't a distinction between, like, what's being presented and what you're projecting, what you're showing to other people, and, like, what is reality. Like, the image and the reality aren't, like, separate things for somebody like Tom Sandville, I don't think. Yeah, totally. I think hearing that he literally said to Rachel,

life is lying is like almost giving us like a two literal master key to the way that he thinks. Totally. Yeah. Like I suspect that that is actually how he thinks. And whether he was like that far down that road before he started doing Vanderpump rules or if this is like the way that his mind became warped by being in this world for years and years is an open question. I don't know like the answer to that. But I think Tom Saddam, as he is now, is definitely somebody who doesn't really make

an interior distinction between reality and what's what other people are seeing of you. And Rachel is not that way. Like she doesn't like it, I think to her it just feels like schizophrenic and something that she can't reconcile. And I think that's why it was just, you know, not going to work out because like she has this, like, and I did listen to the, to her podcast and like she's making this very clear distinct between reality and the show. and she's talking about how Lisa Van Derprop when she was when she was talking to her.

Like she, Rachel says that she called Lisa to talk about Graham and wanted to know that, you know, Graham was well in stuff. But Lisa just kept saying things like, oh, like, you know, these feelings you're sharing, like we got to get it on the show. Like, we got to get it on camera, basically. Right. Yeah.

And Rachel's perspective sees to be like, I'm talking about my life. I'm talking about reality. But I think Lisa probably has a perspective more similar to Tom Sandibals for perspective, which is like, what's the difference? Like, it's just like, it's better if it's on camera. Like, it's just like, it's, it's all presentation. It's all like for what it looks like. It's almost to the point where it's not just like what's the difference.

It's like it's only real if it happens on camera. Like it only matters. Exactly. Yeah. The cameras capture it. Yeah. Reality isn't something that, that happens off camera. It's literally what ends up on the screen. Yeah, exactly.

It's like. Yeah, which is a whole different, like, philosophical. perspective. Any other highlights here? Mostly. There was there was one thing I just wanted to call attention to which is when, uh, when like, um, Ariana and Lala were talking about like how like, oh, you know, the, the, the guys seem to be to be able to like, become friends again despite like what Sandval's done or whatever. And like, and, uh, and like, oh, like, that's guys. And like, Arianna's like, oh, that's sad for guys. I just thinking like, is it sad?

Yeah, like just like, to me it sounds pretty cool to just be able to be like, yeah, whatever, we're still buddies anyways. Like, you didn't. Yeah. It's just a different difference of perspective, I guess, to be like, ah, it's so sad that you can't freeze out all your friends every time they cross a line. Yeah. Like, doesn't, I'm not shedding any tears over that.

Yeah, no kidding. I think we covered most of what I wanted to talk. I did want to talk a little bit about like the guys. night, mostly just the idea that they like selected this theme of the rat pack. It seems so like calculated that they would choose a like iconic group of friends and use that as the theme to immediately like structure this night as like a moment to celebrate their camaraderie and really force this like feeling of being a group. It seems so calculated. on the part of, well, apparently it's Tom Schwartz's idea, or at least that's how it's introduced, but it's got like Sandival's fingerprints all over it, you know, dressing up in like fancy clothes and like being a famous group of friends

and like very manipulative setting. Yeah, I thought it was like definitely had his fingerprints all over that. And then him like showing up when it was like definitely clear that he knew that they were going to be at. I don't know if it was see you next Tuesday or what were they they showed up. But yeah. Yeah, totally. And especially because Sandoval was the one who had like the most like on point outfit, of course.

Like he was the only one who did like the bow tie, which makes more sense for the rat pack theme. And it like you said, it absolutely stank of like a Sandoval initiated idea. Yeah. Even though it wasn't presented that way. And I don't know where they like this restaurant that they went to was. It looked like a cafeteria. It was so brightly lit and just seemed like such a bizarre, like, environment to have these, I don't know, this, like, one side was, like, bench seats and the other were these, like, I don't know, whatever chairs. It just did not have the same vibe as the way they were dressed.

It was way too casual. Yeah, yeah, it did not seem to be the right setting to play act as the rat back. They should have gone to, like, a casino at 4 a.m. or something. Yeah, exactly. I think that about covers my highlights. What do you got for your all-stars here? First star, Lala. I think I've given her one of the stars for like every episode this season.

I don't think I've given her the first one yet. This feels like the right time to do it. Who would have thought like five or six years ago that she would seem to be like the most mature and reasonable person on the cast, but it kind of feels like that way at this point. Yeah, scarecrow got her brain. Yeah. You know, I still think the switch could flip at any moment with Lala, but she's showing a lot of thought and what she's doing and a lot of like sensitivity and is expressing yourself pretty

well. The fact that we see her like in her like growing little business empire that that Lisa visits, just kind of feels like another emblem of her like growth and stability and, and that the way that she goes in and that and that she gets stuff done too. Like she actually does get Ariana to write a comment in support of Sheena. Like when she confronts Ariana about it, she does it without it turning into like a blow up argument. And it's not just a confrontation for the sake of starting an argument because it actually

produces a result. Yeah. she actually gets what she wants. Like that's the other thing. Like she's not just like, she could just like let that go. But yeah, she stood up for for Sheena.

And you know, it didn't really gain any social ground. It didn't influence the like dynamic that any of the, the cast had. And that wasn't the intent. It was like just a selfless attempt to be like, hey, can you, you know, stand up for someone that's like road for you?

It would be the nice thing to do here. Yeah. And she's not just turning these confinations into shouting matches, as she would have before. She's actually, like, getting somewhere with them. They're actually, you know, bearing fruit. So very interesting. First star, Lala, edging out, second star. Gotta be Joe.

We need more, we need more Joe here. Joe, you win the internet for today. One thousand epic bacon points to you, good ma'am. And third star will go, throw a star to Katie, you know, she's been, she was very, very interesting and very frustrating for me, but very interesting in this episode, throw a star to Katie. You know what? Both these episodes, all six of my stars have gone to women. You know why? Because for me, it's International Women's Week. It's not just a day. There you go.

It's more durable than that, Craig. I have same stars, different order. I want to give Joe the first star because this was, like you said, le epic behavior. I, yeah, loved it. It was such a, like, it made me feel like something. I was just, yeah, I'm still reeling from it. Nostalgia, I think it's what it made you feel.

And then Lala, like you said, got to give her the second star here. And Katie also is like probably tied for for a second year. I, um, I, I love Katie. Every time, uh, she comes up, I feel like I, um, I'm always defending Katie and have been for for ages before we even had the podcast. I've been a, a Katie fan and what she brings to this show. And she, I, she is also a very, like, authentic person that, um, I don't think she gets near enough credit for what she brings to this show.

show and the way that she like um comes across and just like not really giving a shit what people think about her um she is maybe the person that gives the least shits about what people think about her because she's going on TV and just taking head on whatever criticism is going to come at her so uh really appreciate that i love that we got some like nuance to her action here in terms of or we got to see some context and like our thought process here. Yeah, really, really good. Love to love to see it. Yeah, I think that about does it though.

Any final thoughts? No, that about doesn't. Awesome. Want to let everyone know where they can find you? Yeah, you could be on Substack writing about movies, Dylan Ferguson. Yeah. And next week, I think we're going to be doing another tandem episode. traveling for work and I'm not exactly

sure when we'll get a chance to record but next week is the premiere of the Valley the spin off of Vanderpump Rules which I am very excited about we're going to see the return of Jacks Taylor all-time reality TV icon

so really really stoked about this it could be good it could be terrible but it also could be really good we'll see and we'll talk about it you can find us online on Instagram at Bravo Outsider on TikTok at Bravo Outsider on YouTube Bravo Outsider just search for it

go to our website bravoo outsider.com we've got VR versions of some of our episodes including this one maybe you're watching in it right now in which case you can just Are we on Tumblr? Because I think Joe would like to find us on Tumblr

We are not on Tumblr, sorry Joe but you can add us on MySpace until next week keep on Wi-Fing. day.