Oscars Outsider - VPR S11E12 & The Valley S01E05 Recap/Analysis (w/ Evan Petka) | Bravo Outsider Podcast

Episode Date: April 19, 2024

This week hosts Craig Midwinter and Dylan Ferguson are joined by Evan Petka! Get ready to dig into S11E12 of Vanderpump Rules and S01E05 of The Valley! 🍸Featured Bravolebs: Vanderpump Rules: Lisa Vanderpump, Tom Schwartz, Tom Sandoval, Ariana Madix, Katie Maloney, Scheana Shay, Lala Kent, James Kennedy, Ally Lewber, Brock Davies The Valley: Brittany Cartwright, Jax Taylor, Kristen Doute, Luke Broderick, Danny Booko, Nia Booko, Janet Caperna, Jason Caperna, Jesse Lally, Michelle Saniei Lally 📣 Stay Connected: Find Dylan Ferguson on Substack at https://dylanferguson.substack.com/ Find Bravo Outsider on Instagram at ⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/bravooutsider https://www.bravooutsider.com 📖 Credits Music by FASSounds from Pixabay #vanderpumprules #bravo #realitytv #pumprules #scandoval #thevalley

Okay, so I'm just going to like share something with you guys, kind of in line with one of the themes of musical atrocities. Yeah. We can. Wow. All right. Give you a second to wipe the tears out of my eyes because I've just, just witnessed something of overpowering beauty.

I didn't know that Alia was taking this, this direction in her career. But I mean, it makes sense. I remember there was an episode where she just. talking about like her career intentions and she was like before I just I was like going to be Taylor Swift and then I decided I'm going to do horoscopes instead of Taylor Swift or whatever. And it's just like she just has such vibes of somebody who's like has no idea how anything in the world actually works. So that's why this is beautiful to me because it looks like she is

coming off like an alien who learned how to be human from watching TikToks. Hello and welcome to the Bravo Outsider podcast. I'm your host Craig Midwinter joined once again by Dylan Ferguson. Dylan, what's up? Not too much. I'm happy to be here viving with my girls. Good to see you guys. Yeah. Girls, girls. We're also joined by our very close friend

Evan Petka. I'm too blessed to be stressed and too sexy to be thirsty. Nice. Okay, well, yeah, we're glad to have you on here. We're going to talk about the Vanderpump Rules and the Valley. I feel like we gave you a little bit of a tough assignment

with this week's Vanderpump Rules, but let's jump right into it. Do you want to give us a three-second or three-sentence summary of what happened this episode of Vanderpump Rules? Yeah. Okay, this is my very first sort of foray into this, so I'm kind of just being plopped in.

That's classic outsider. I'm a big outsider here, but I've got Tom Sandoval is getting over a breakup and needs to make housing choices. Sheena makes a music video and writes songs about, Lala is choosing some sperm. That's almost the high coo, actually. Yeah.

Let's talk about the presentation of this. Do a bit of an artistic analysis. What did you identify for any sort of themes or storytelling devices? Dylan, I'll have you get us started. Like the housing situation is still feeling like a big theme in the sense that it's like, where do people feel comfortable? and like what's like an acceptable configuration

for living. So I feel like that's kind of using housing as a way to discuss people's like comfort and they're like in like social situations and stuff is still something that we're seeing a lot of. The previous episode we had Arianna get more emotional than we've seen her yet this season.

At least unless you're describing anger as an emotion, just when she's talking about why she wants. Anger is an emotion, by the way. You're right. You know what? Thanks, Mr. Dictionary. You know, talking about why the house is important to her. And now we're the whole argument over who gets to love in the house. Who gets to sell the house is just switching again as, you know, which kind of feels like a reflection of the way that Sandival's relationship to the group is changing the way they're talking about the housing that way they're talking about that house which has been the house has been like a character at the show of this whole season

uh the way that's being configured is is is changing too so that's that's one thing that was consistently interesting to be yeah totally uh Evan how about how about yourself anything that you picked up yeah I mean I think my big call out here and this is not listen I this is coming from a sensitive guy um but I I love the sensitive guy theme of we have, you know, we've got, you know, Tom and James fighting, yet both crying in the same episode. And I loved it. I loved it. Again, this is my first sort of, I'm a big outsider here.

This is my first introduction to these characters. And I love Tom Sandville. Like, that guy does not fit a box at all. I mean, maybe David from Schitt's Creek, but like, I don't know. I love that guy. I love him. And so, you know, that was, yeah, just really embracing the sort of, the, you know, guys have emotions, too. I loved it.

I actually really did. It's curious, like, it's interesting that you bring that up. I'm wondering, did it, like, feel real to you or, like, as real as anything else on that show? Okay. I think, so there was a flashback or, like, sort of, like, last. time on at the beginning of the episode. And I'm thinking now, like, because I was just like, it felt like, you know, reading, um, reading Clockwork Orange. Like, I was just sort of like, like trying to sort of catch up on all of the, you know, characters and learn the lingo and everything like that, right? But, um, so I think it was Ariana. There was a point where there was

one character in the sort of like last time on, um, who was crying. And they had two friends who were like trying to support them. And the two friends were just like staring at her, like almost like they were upset, chewing gum. Both them were just like chewing gum, staring at her. It might have been Ariana. And she was like, she was crying and crying, but then her crying was like very not real.

Like it just, it just like stripped back and you can tell it was being put on. But I don't know. I think definitely Tom Sandoval's crying felt very real to me. That's so interesting to me because like I like having watched this show before and it Tom Sandoval's crying on camera came across like kind of artificial to me whereas Arianna's last episode felt more authentic to me. So yeah, it's really interesting as an outsider that it would seem the other way to you. Dylan, what what's your kind of takeaway on? on Tom's crying there.

So one thing that's interesting about Tom's crying is that in one of the episodes of Rachel's podcasts, she pointed out that you should look for sad to all turning towards a wall when he's crying as his like acting technique to

look physically crushed while also not allowing the cameras to get a direct line on his face. Which I thought was a very good point on her part. But in this episode, we actually do see because since she said that, I'm looking for it all the time, right? In this episode, we see Sandoval crying, like, straight into the camera. So, there's at least a moment here where it's like, it reads as more real, at least by that metric.

It is, I think, a really interesting question because, like, it's interesting that you have had, like, latched on to Sandoval right away, seeing this episode in isolation. because I want to be able to see it in isolation and see how I would react to it in isolation because I can't do that because I've been watching the show from the start. And me, my main reaction to Saddoval over there constantly moping is that he's been doing this for a whole season. Right?

So I'm like in the early episodes, I was like, oh, this is got to be really interesting to see Saddaval. Performatively be sad because they're all being performative. They are on TV. But like, which does not meet. It was just not preclude. that he's not expressing real emotions, right?

He can both be expressing real emotions and also be aware of the fact that there are cameras and know how to operate around cameras because he's been doing this for over a decade and it's like a pro at the game. But for me, it's just like I am so less willing to give him the benefit of the doubt in terms of seeing what he's doing as genuine now because he's been doing it for so long that it's like all he's been doing all season long, that it's just like worn me down, that even if like this moment where he cries directly into the cabra, maybe the fact that Rachel, who he had an affair with last season,

is like renouncing him. Maybe this has really got to him at a point where this is like, this is like very real genuine sadness coming from him. And I am just like not ready to read it as genuine because he's been performing sadness for so many episodes at a row now. I've just exhausted by it. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. That's an interesting point because I think one like you can say, a lot of things about Tom Sandoval, but he is like, he is very aware. This is something that we've talked about a ton on the podcast. He's very aware of like the cameras and, you know, his positioning within the show. And this actually feels like not the best time for him to be going and trying to like cry on camera in order to gain sympathy. Just like knowing where he is within the group and how this might like play. It feels like a misstep and you know, Tom Sandival is not someone that like makes a lot of mistakes strategically in the sort of meta of the story.

So it seems like it's a bit of a misplay because he's got like James back on his side. He's got like Lala's like in his corner. He's like got everything. Like he's in a really good position to make inroads with the group and then to like react this way to. you know, to Rachel going on a podcast, it seems like it's going to like set him back quite a bit. And that's not something that you typically, like not the type of mistake that you typically see him make. I think it's also a sign of how much his reintegration in the group has evolved, has advanced, has been successful, that he now feels that he is comfortable enough footing in the group, that he can start to weapon,

nice his feelings against people rather than just use his his fragile emotional state as a way to garner sympathy like we see that at the end of the episode where he gets angry at sheena for attacking him in a lyric of her song and like storms out on her uh which is like not something he would have done at the start of the season because he'd just be too vulnerable uh to uh to like be able to to be able to to influence the people around him in that way like he he just kind of had to take the friendships as they would come at when he was still kind of ostracized, uh, from the group. And I think he feels like he's in sound enough footing that world. He's still, uh, you know, all about being sad. He can use his sadness as a way to, uh, to attack people rather than just garner sympathy at

this point. Yeah, that's a, that's a good point. And, you know, we also see that in the scene where they're preparing for the Tom Tom Tom brunch. Like Schwartz goes in, Sandoval is strategically late so that he can let you know schwartz lay a foundation for a discussion between him and and lisa and instead of it being like this moment where he's trying to get sympathy from lisa he's he's kind of on the attack there and he's like very like aggressive about you know i need to see what people are saying about me me me me me me me and like really is confrontational with lisa about the situation as opposed to when we saw the conversation between tom and lisa early this season where he was, you know, being a wounded animal who, like, needed to be, you know, taken to Vanderpump dogs and fixed up and, you know, get the whole Vanderpump dog spa treatment. Yeah. I did notice he was wearing his sunglasses when he came in, right, and talking to Lisa, like, he's hiding behind those sunglasses.

So there is still, like, this, like, little element of, of, yeah, of not being as confident, I guess. He has to hide behind those sunglasses. And even his outfit was, you know, I mean, I guess it was like a big opening, brunch opening. But yeah, it definitely seemed like he was making up for something there or like hiding behind something. Totally. Yeah. Dylan, you brought up the, like this idea of the house as a symbol within the season. I'm curious what you think about Tom trying to recruit Tom Schwartz to be

a roommate. If there's any, you know, symbolic meaning to that. I mean, I think if Shorts was ever hesitating about your renewing his friendship with Sandoval, I think those questions have been settled. He is like totally happy to renew his friendship with Sandoval. And it would be an image that would be taken very poorly by Team Arianna as Schwartz immediately recognizes because it would be. like him just replacing her in the same house, which would be kind of funny, but also would be appropriate because we, as we've discussed before, the show, like the one, like, lasting, uh, true love affair that we've had on the show is between Tom Schwartz and Tom Zad.

Well, they're like, and, uh, and so it would be appropriate. They just ended up living together. Uh, and, uh, in that house would up. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, again, though if it was in that house, It would, of course, be a very loaded thing. I think I'm also a little confused by Ariana's reaction, too, because I'm trying to kind of get a clearer understanding of what her perspective is. When we had the previous episode, she just gave a very, a moving emotional case for why she does not want to let go of the house and why she doesn't want to engage with Tom's attempts to buy her out of the house.

and now she's saying, of course we should sell the house. That's what I've been saying all along in this new episode. And I feel like I can't quite square those two comments. Like, I don't quite, like, does she want to be bought of? Does she want the house to be sold or does she want it to be her house? Like, what is the sticking point for her? Which of those are two things is the thing that she actually wants here? Yeah, I mean, I feel like now that she has kind of emotionally let go of the house,

It's easy for her to kind of like, you know, think about what would have been best for her in the past and be like, yeah, obviously that's what I wanted deep down was to like part ways. Right. Yeah. That's where I am now. And that's like what I wanted all along. I think like I give her some grace for, you know, it not necessarily adding up with like what we're hearing her say. I think it is an honest representation of how she feels in that moment. So, yeah, I, I'm fine with that contradiction.

But yeah, that's definitely something that I picked up on as well. Yeah, that makes sense. And then continuing to look at the house is like an image. It's also kind of an interesting image of like, what is she actually trying to do? Is she trying to continue to be the person she already was and have the life she already is just without Sandoval? Or does she embrace the idea that she does have to become a whole new person or a whole new life post Sandoval? It's like she have to try to continue to exist in the place she is cluttered as it is with boxes and filth and chicken satay and dying dogs. Or does she actually realize that it's time for a clean break in becoming and embracing a whole new life as hard as that is to do?

Yeah, totally. I want to talk about this idea of like this external appearance or this online. appearance and the like how you present yourself in the online battleground versus reality. I think like one of the things that we saw was Sheena brought up, you know, how Ariana on social media is like looking like she's got it all. She's got the great boyfriend, all these opportunities, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But in reality, her house is like a mess and she's like struggling to get it in order and how that is like a representation of her like internal state.

I thought that that was a great contrast and I like how a lot of the debate in this episode surrounded what Rachel is putting out there in the social media discourse via Bethany's podcast versus what the reality was you know Ariana taking issue with Rachel saying that they were like at best acquaintances I thought that that was really

you know, kind of interesting. And also, you know, this idea of the image, the external image contrasting with the reality of inside even takes the form of them putting

the pump sign up on TomTom. Like we're, it's like Lisa presenting to the world. Like this is still a Vanderpump thing, not associated with Scandalvol, you know, come and like continue to support us. This is like, you know, but inside it's still Tom Tom.

This is still the bar that we saw them build. They just put a new sign on. And they're just externally representing, you know, something that is a contrast to the reality that we have come to know. That's interesting because I didn't know that when I saw the signs, I thought pump, what this is so this is me being a big outsider again is I thought pump was like literally a restaurant beside it. Because the way they have the signs up there, it looks. kind of like, I mean, especially here in Vancouver, you'll have a lot of like, you know, restaurants that are just directly beside each other and they're just deep as opposed to like wide. So that to me looked like two restaurants. I didn't realize that was sort of like a brand.

The pump was like a brand of Tom Tom Tom is a pump. Yeah. So pump was like a restaurant that Lisa Vanderpump had that has like we saw it closed down this season because rent is too high or something like that. She's also like one of the majority owners of Tom Tom, which is the bar that she owns with Tom and Tom. I think what has happened is they put that sign up and they are like rebranding the dining room of Tom Tom to be like pump. So it's like. I think that is what's happening. They haven't like really said on camera what is actually going on with that, but it seems like that's what they're trying to do. Evan, let's get a quote. What did you pick out for a quote from this episode? Yeah. So, I mean, I have, I'll just actually just kind of segue off of what you were just talking about

with the, with the Instagram, you know, this whole accusation of people just being, you know, acquaintances. So that was the first quote I actually picked up on was, I forget, honestly, the character because I hadn't established who they were in my head yet. But the quote was, our Instagrams are filled with us dot, dot, dot, dot, hanging, dot, dot, what are you talking about? Like, there was like, they couldn't actually say hanging out. Like, it was, like, so obvious that it wasn't true.

Like, that it was true that they were acquaintances because, like, it was this passionate, like, what do you mean? We're friends, but the words weren't even, like, spat out properly. Like, they couldn't actually even say, like, we were hanging out. So I thought that was pretty funny. The Instagram reality does say that they were friends,

but the actual true reality or like even what is canon on camera. I guess what is canon on camera was that they were friends. Like it seems like a genuine friendship on camera. But, you know, what is real about what we see on camera as a whole another story? Yeah, yeah. So maybe I'll still just say. steal some thunder and share two, two quotes here.

So my first, I think it was Ali, who said, Lala's having a sperm donor party, which is so cool. Yeah. And that pause, and that pause made me like,

my, my impulse was she's going to say, which is so weird, but then she just said, it's so cool. And so that really, like, I love that moment because it was like

definitely not. what I expected somebody to say after they're saying they were having a sperm donor party. I love this idea, though. Yeah, I do. I did too, actually. I'm not going to lie to you. I did not understand until we got to the party what they were actually going to be doing. Like I'm like, because they're like, oh, we're going to help me decide on which sperm do you.

Is it like, what is that, are you going to be tasting them? Like, I don't know. I couldn't figure out what they were going to. do. That says a lot. That says a lot about what you, what you think about these women. Well,

I don't know, I didn't realize they had like, like profiles with that it's like, what's your favorite color? You know, I was like, they're going to have like those little tiny like whiskey glasses. They're going to spin it around a bit and just smell the bouquet.

It'd be like, bring back the water Somali. Yeah. Just like wide tasting where you. you have to spit. Yeah, then he spit it out. Yeah,

yeah, yeah. Yeah. Because Lala admitted she's a spitter, right? Yeah. Oh,

that's funny. Let's talk about our highlights here. Evan, what were your highlights from this episode? Let's see here. I was,

there was so many. There was so many because this was like me just learning about people. Oh, no, this was definitely my favorite.

Definitely my favorite moment is I don't know. how often this happens in these shows, but like one of the first, right when, I think it might have even been the first time we see Tom, other than in like a flashback or something, he comes walking into like his apartment with Schwartz and he flashes the lens immediately. And I just thought that was so funny, like just looks directly at the camera. I wonder how much that happens on the show, but it was like, I don't know why that made me laugh so. hard. Because he looked, he definitely, yeah, he, I'm like, these people have been in front of a camera

for so long. And he kind of looked at the camera like, what is it doing here? Or like, and clearly the editors, like, put that in there on purpose. And so I was like, I don't know, that, that part really, I loved it. It made me, it made me laugh. Yeah, I think that that, like, added to how I felt about his crying soon. That's why it felt so staged because we got that short shot of him kind of acknowledging like this is the time to like bring

it. The cameras are here. Let's go. Let's cry. Right. Right. Right. Right. Yeah. And then the second part I loved was during the fight with James and Sandoval. And James

pointed to the band and says this is just a joke to me and then they cut to the band just standing there and that edit that edit reminded me so much of Eric Andre when you go cut to the Eric Andre band and they're just sort of like standing there and they seem so like out of context

like separated from the moment and they look so pathetic and I just that that was so funny yeah that fight had some highlights for me as well. I really love that we got the quick shot of Tom on the penis flute where he's going yeah. Yeah. It was actually a good line

on James Park when James gets all heated and he's like, you're going to be doing this at 75 years old breaking out a little penis flute and then they show the clip of a play the penis flute and you picture him doing that at 75 years old, which is that possible reality. I can see that happen. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was a great fight. I love that. That was like it just felt like it felt to be like it escalated organically and that there are both like being very thin skin. And it was a very classic James. Like he seemed to come in with like a different conversation in mind. But he's such like a thin skin guy that he immediately like starts. You know, he's he's clearly not over this relationship with Rachel. Right. So he's he immediately lashes on to the idea that like, oh, she was just talking up with you because she wasn't over with me. And then like. Yeah. And then they both get heated over that. And it was just like, it was just like a classic like James getting turned up speaking really fast, getting really wounded and defensive moment, which the fact that it just happens kind of well, they're just kind of standing there with like you say Evan, the band just sitting there being like, you know, blowing spit up the end of their trombone or whatever. Yeah. And it was great. It was a great bit. It was the highlight of the episode for me. Yeah.

Dylan, what were your other highlights there? Yeah, other than that, which was the best, that's the highlight. I think like the low light, I'll say that has to be addressed. And this is the kind of thing where like Craig said, Evan, I kind of don't envy you being dropped into this episode just because it's like a very like meta episode that's referencing us so much that's like happened both in the past on episodes, but also just like in podcasts, online and stuff. there's like a lot being referenced here.

But the low- The problem of cinematic universe, you need a lot of context. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You need to get into the expanded universe. Yeah, there's a lot of parrotext happening. It kind of felt inevitable, I think, when we found out that Rachel walked away from the show for what I think are understandable reasons,

that the show would eventually throw her under the bus. And this episode was like that moment. I think, you know, as speaking as the general manager of Team Rachel, something I haven't been able to be this season much. It was it was predictable but disappointing to see the show just kind of really take the time out to just like try to sully her as much as possible and try to disprove everything she said about the show and about the people on the show. when she's not there to defend herself or to provide her side of the story.

Yeah. And people like all season, people have been complaining about, you know, Tom Sandival all not getting the villain edit here. I think what the more egregious edit that we're seeing this season is the good boy edit that we're giving hippie slash Graham. Like he's just being treated as this angel.

He does not deserve the good boy edit that is a bad dog. No treat. You were really hug up on that, Craig. I got to say. I like it. But no, it was disappointing how like how very heavy-handed and one-sided. I thought they're whole like, oh, Rachel's just saying lies about everyone. They do that for like, you know, 10 minutes straight, you know.

Yeah. It's like kind of interesting that, you know, this is the moment where it happened. because I guess this is the point of no return where, you know, up until this point, it was possible that she might show up this season. And they might be able to do something different with their story. So now that the tide has turned, they have to make this hard, hard pivot and really, you know, just cast her adrift. Because what else she said in that, sorry to cut you off, but what else she said in that podcast of their referencing that they don't talk about directly in this episode is that she was. criticizing Bravo itself. She was criticizing the show itself. She was saying how she was promised like a mental health support that was then not provided to her, that she asked to be reimbursed

for time spent at a mental health facility and that that was denied her. So that's why I kind of see it also as the show itself trying to drag her through the mud because the real sin is that she attacked Bravo, not that she attacked Sandovalor or whatever. Totally. Yeah. I get why, for the sake of, like, story purposes, they needed to make this a point. I hope that this is the last we kind of hear about this podcast appearance with Bethany. Like, this doesn't need to be something that gets dragged out. I think it's, like, served its functional purpose on the show. And, yeah, I'd be kind of bored if the rest of the season is just talking about what's going on off camera.

it would not interest me whatsoever. I hope it was the last time they mentioned Rachel, period, to be honest. Like, keep her name out your fucking mouth. But just because she's not there. Like, it's just such like a, just because she's not there to provide her side of the story. Like, the fact that everything has to be about Sandoval and not, and people reckoning with how they treat Sandoval and not reckoning with how they treated Rachel is really disappointing. Yeah. but inevitable because she's not part of the cast.

So if she's not going to be part of the cast and she's not going to be there to provide her perspective on things, just leave her out of it. And it's pretty egregious, I think, also to have Sandival being like, oh, she broke my heart. And I would have done everything for her. She used me. And he's just like, he just is so, it's such a self-serving narrative, which doesn't mean it's not partially true. But just the fact that we can't have any kind of shade. we can't have any other side provided to the story

because the other person involved is not part of the show. Better to just leave her out of it altogether. Yeah, totally. Dylan, did you have any other highlights from this episode? Why is She does shooting a music video for Good As Gold in 2024? It's for the Screamo version of the song. Right. Oh, my God.

Oh, that's who the 27s are. Yeah. Good as Gold. lame as fuck edition. That song for Sheena is like the like, like blue ribbon that Papps brewing one at like the Chicago exhibition in 1896 or whatever. Like it's just like, why are you still using that as your thing after all these years?

Because all the other songs that she has put out are like terrible by comparison. This Apple song that she like is referencing. I forgot that that even came out. It is so bad. Yeah. I get why she's using that because the original good as gold is a certified Bravo Bangor that is up there in the Bravo music Mount Rushmore for me. But everything else that she has put out is just like, it is so bad.

Including the Screamo remix that no one asks for. I like, yeah, not not down for that at all. Yeah. Maybe they're trying to sell some more T-shirts or something at Hot Top. and so they need somebody to go with it. Yeah, probably. Yeah, I think we touched on a lot of the highlights that I had. I do want to talk a little bit about the band practice scene.

Again, one thing that I really loved was, you know, how it led off with this like pitchy singing and Sandoval really like giving it his all in terms of the spectacle of the performance for this like rehearsal. And it just is so fitting with his character that they would even have the like the screen in the background going for his rehearsal. And they would have the like the fog machine for the finale. The fog machine low angle shot. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Like yeah. Like yeah. Really, really love that. It's just so in line with his like character. You know, we've always talked about since Tom Sandival was like introduced episode. one, season one, where we see him like shaving, using a razor to shave his like forehead because of the exfoliation properties that it has on the skin. Like, we have this picture of Tom Sandoval as this

narcissist and being so like image obsessed. And this is just, um, this is like maybe the most consistent thing about his character on this show is how like image focused he is. And yeah, I, I, I, I love that we got to see this rehearsal shot this way. And then that immediately, like, it gets the full, like, glam treatment. And then we get the immediate contrast with the, like, pathetic band in the background during that scene later. Just really a plus work here and how this was presented. Yeah, totally. Yeah.

Yeah, the other thing that we haven't really talked about too much was the, The sperm party. I think that this was, this was pretty fun, to be honest. I thought that this, like, I like the idea of this. I like how poetically Lala frames it. This idea of, you know, she wants this baby to be, you know, conceived with love and to be able to, like, frame it that way. And, you know, I think the way that she, like, talks about her desire to have a child. that, you know, it is just hers that she doesn't have to share with someone as toxic as, like, Randall is.

You can, you could criticize this for, like, talking about, like, a human being, like a possession or an accessory or whatever. But I think, like, if you're not picking apart her semantics and what she's, like, really, like, trying to say about her, like, emotional, will. that she has related to Randall and how much she hurts when she has to like try to co-parent and you know say goodbye to her her child like I think that's what she's like really driving out at the core not that you know I don't want to share my my things um yeah I just really like how she is um trying to frame this this process that could be seen as very clinical as a very very loving process. I really like that part. It's an interesting contrast between, like you say, the way Lala sees it, which I agree. Good for her. I'm happy for her. And the process itself, which is, like you said, very, very clinical. And there is something maybe a little creepy about like selecting a genetic profile, even though like it's being dressed up as like, this is what their favorite animal is and not like not in the terms of genetic profile. which makes it sound like some Gattaca shit.

But so there's maybe a little bit of dissidence between like her like very humanist message of like raising a child with love and like selecting the correct strain from the bat. But that's more semantics like you said, Greg. I agree with you and I'm happy for Lala. I do think, I mean, do we do they, do people believe that like knowing somebody's favorite song. as a donor is useful information that's going to tell you something about their genes.

Or is this not just a way to try to make something that is literally cold as a process? It's cryogenically removing samples from a vat with a trench coat. Trying to make it seem

as warm and fuzzy and human as possible. I would say that people people believe it. Allie believes crazier things, so you know. Yes. Yeah. No surprise there. Yeah. I think it was very

telling of just how how bougie it was, like how this whole premise is so, you know, this is possibly the new, the new future for, you know, people of this status

that this is, you know, especially like, you know, like the way we have, know, gender reveals, like just adding a new one, right? A new, a new type of party for Instagram, a new, you know, ceremony of the bourgeois. Like, that's sort of, that's what I was getting from it. Yeah. Like the major studied by the surrogate father reveal. Right.

Right, right, right. The favorite animal. The history major, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Okay, let's, I think that covers about all of my highlights. Let's get into our stars. Evan, we'll start with you. Who are your stars?

Yeah, all right. I'm going to go a little, you know, a little different with mine maybe. My first star that I really discovered in there was Neil the director of Lala's music video. He looked. Oh, yeah. Orchinus or Shinas, yeah, yeah, yeah. He looked like what's a tiny diamond from trolls. He had the big glasses and then he had this hat.

I just, you know, even though he didn't have a speaking line, that just his whole... And great character design. Yeah, it was great character design. It was perfect. It was like if I was to draw what a music video director looked like in L.A. I don't like that's... It was like Chad Chi P.T. Spouted out, right?

like that's what it would that's what that's what that's what it would look like um that was fun for me and then i mean i think my next uh james and james and tom just because of their fight just i loved i loved the the juxtaposition of both of them crying in their you know post interviews um you know mixed with them being you know so aggressive towards each other yet being so sensitive and and you know on the outside so um yeah those those two were definitely my favorite. Awesome. Dylan, how about you? Yeah, I'm having a hard time with this one.

I think my first star is I'm going to write in Rachel from off screen. Just shoehorn her in there. Second star, let's give it to Brian from Cryobank. Brian did say in the previous episode when they're visiting the cryo bank, maybe we'll have some fun along the way. and they did. They had some fun along the way. So thanks Brian for guiding them on this,

this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this,

this, this, this, this, let's give a third star to Kennedy for, for making that fight happened, which was the, the best moment of the episode.

All right. Yeah. I think James Kennedy gets a star for, for me for sure. I also want to give one to Allie, who I don't know that we talked a lot about, but there was like, um,

the, the, the comment that she made, about about Lala saying that Katie was miserable kind of came back to blow up in her face a little bit or has the potential to do that. I think like she's kind of showing her her lack of experience in this like high level of reality TV. I know she's been on reality TV prior to this, but she just doesn't seem to have the experience. to navigate something as complex as Vanderpump rules. And she's made a few, like a few misplays, I feel like she's, um, yeah.

So I just thought that she was kind of interesting and what, what she brought. Um, and I also have to give a start to Rachel. I think, you know, this episode, what is happening if you remove her from the equation? Um, not a whole lot. So, yeah, that's, uh, those are my picks. Nice. All right. Let's talk about The Valley.

This is a better episode for me than the last episode, I think. But it's starting to kind of feel like a little bit of a chore to watch this show if I'm being completely honest. But I'm curious what you think, Evan. Let's get your three sentence summary about what happened. Oh, yeah. I mean, okay. I'm going to I'm going to like maybe mess up some names. here. I mean, you know, Brittany and Jacks, I don't have this written down.

Brittany and Jacks, you know, argue about alcohol. It's one sentence. To Jesse and is it Michelle? Yeah. Yeah. You know, marriage is on the rocks. And then I think even I would keep going with that for my third sentence is Michelle having an affair with the director. Oh, yeah. That is intriguing to me. Yeah. Okay. Who do we think? Okay, who's the funniest answer for who the director could be?

I was thinking about that. Okay, so I think that the funniest answer is who the top theory is right now. Have you been reading online? I tried to Google it quickly, and I came up with Quentin Tarantino. Is that? Yeah, that's the leading theory. Yeah. That is probably one of the funniest.

That is, yeah, that is up there in terms of funny. It's not like, it's not like, like Woody Allen hilarious, but it is like pretty funny. And from what I understood,

I just looked at our like a Reddit thread quickly. It seems to be like people were saying like the number of syllables seems to concord with Quentin Tarantino. But you know who else has the same number of syllables? Darren Aronofsky. That kind of, that would not be all right. Oh, yeah.

I like that. we're all shooting for A-listers. I was actually going for Christopher Nolan. I thought that would be super funny. That would be really funny, actually. Yeah. Yeah. That would be a real bomb.

Yeah. Herzog, maybe. I imagine if he was a character on the show. Oh, that would be so good. That would be so good. That would be amazing. That would be amazing. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I, I, this could be a big payoff if this is like revealed and it is someone really funny or really interesting. Yeah. That does make me want to follow up on this. Yeah. Like Evan said, you said that we're going right to A-listers.

I think that's kind of like what we have to assume because Jacks Taylor says the director's name as if it's like, you know, somebody we all know who it is. You know, he's like, oh, you know, she might be spending time with me, this person. Like, if Jack's Taylor probably knows the names of like four directors, you know? Right, exactly. Like, I don't think he's saying like Andrew Majelsky or the Ariaster or something, right? Like, he's like, if he knows the director's name, he's, it's like, it's like, it's got to be one of the, one of the most famous directors, presumably, I would think. Yeah. And I think that it was implied that they also use the first name.

Like there's fewer like directors outside of like like film forums that get referred to on a first name basis. There's Marty. Yeah. But he's in New York. There's a possibility. There's a possibility. Same thing with Woody. Damn.

Yeah. Yeah. But Quentin is one that. Yeah. I thought that was more like exclusive to film forums that people refer to him on the first name basis. What about Noah? Noah Bomback. He's got a history of cheating.

Let's Oh, there we go. All right. Yeah, I like this. Please leave a comment with your best guess on who the director is because I feel like this could be a very interesting reveal or funny. Just really love it. Yeah. So let's talk about the artistic presentation of this and any themes that you identified.

Dylan, do you want to lead us off here? Sure. I like the way that they present to us Nia's like mental health struggles because Nia is a character who hasn't been like super fascinated again. I don't think her and Danny are just like seem kind of, you know, fairly likable suburban like Disney adults. And we haven't really like seen much like emotion or depth from them. So to have like Nia like kind of try to talk through how she feels and how she like

conceptualizes what she describes as kind of a split between her brain. and her emotions in terms of trying to figure out whether she actually is sad or not and which part of her is sad and which part of her is not communicating to the part that is sad. What's interesting, I like seeing her work through that.

That was interesting and sympathetic and made me feel for her. And in terms of the way it's presented, there's a good, like, you know, fourth wall break moment that we get when we get the confessional scene and we have the voice of the producer talking to her asking a follow-up question.

and she immediately asks the break instead of confronting the answer or trying to figure out what the answer might be, and instead reaches for her phone and is like, I'm going to check on how my kids are doing. And we immediately see how she's kind of using her need to constantly be vigilant about her kids as a way to avoid trying to deal with her emotions, I think, on some level. and I thought that was a good choice to include that little bit to kind of shade out our view of how her emotional landscape is working right now. Yeah, this was the most compelling thing about this episode for me as well. And just like, you know, acknowledging that us as like straight, socialized male people are not the best people to lead this like conversation. but seeing how the, seeing how the, seeing how this was like presented and just like, shown as like an observer to someone navigating this contrasted what a lot of what I have

seen surrounding like postpartum depression and baby blues is very like, this is how you need to deal with this when it happens. Like you need to like take these steps. You need to go get help immediately. And like it's present it's always presented in a very like opinionated way. Like this is how you need to navigate it. And this was a contrast. It was like this is how people are navigating just like hands off.

This is what this person is going through. I thought that that like was I liked seeing that just mostly because it's such a contrast from how things are typically handled in in this situation. Um, yeah. And I think like just from my experience as a parent and, you know, watching my wife go through the process of like becoming a mother and like having a baby. One of the like one of the things that you realize very quickly is people have so many opinions on how to handle things.

There's always so much messaging coming at you saying like this is the right way to do. things this like you need to do this like for your breastfeeding journey you need to do this you need to do this so seeing this like watching this take place in a mostly unopinionated through a mostly unopinionated lens um i really enjoyed seeing that not saying that this is like a like a groundbreaking approach to take or doing anything like socially uh fantastic just as someone that is consuming art and has, you know, been adjacent to someone's motherhood journey, I thought that this was a contrast from what I am used to seeing. Oh, yeah. Evan, did you have anything from the storytelling that you wanted to call out?

Yeah, well, I mean, I was, you know, I'll keep going with that theme that we were talking about. Whenever I see these shows, you know, I haven't seen any of the Valley other than this one episode, but whenever I see these shows like, you know, I used to be an avid or a big viewer of Jersey Shore. And like there was always one character in there that's all, that's kind of like, why are you on this show? Like you seem a little normal. Like I think I remember like Vinny was a Vinny. I don't remember honestly the names, but some Jersey Shore guys that were like, yeah, you're actually kind of normal. Like maybe, you know, you shouldn't be on this show.

And I kind of found that, was it, is it neat? Who is the one dealing with the baby blues? What was that? Nia. Nia, yeah, Nia. I feel like she's, you know, all of that sharing of, you know, the postpartum stuff was very legit. Like, you know, that's not like, you're not writing some song about a Jedda and, you know,

like to try and burn one of your friends in a beef, right? Like this is like this is like legit stuff that happens in life and it was it was a nice moment I thought like her talking to her husband at the end of that episode like it's it's kind of legitimate you know I actually felt a lot of real sympathy for her you know being a father and you know

a husband and stuff it's like this is something that you deal with and mental health is a real thing and so it almost but what it does is, I think it does a disservice almost to this genre of TV in a way because it's like, I mean, maybe it's a good thing because you got to, you know, you know, capture your audience with with some seriousness and maybe some morality and empathy and, you know, being an empaths is really hard. Yeah.

I think we should really focus on the person with a real mental health struggle here. All the empaths out there are like Christian who have to have to have to. deal with that with that burden every day of their lives. It was very, very brave of Kristen to come out. Very brave. I thought that was a really brave moment for her. I know they try to make fun of her a bit in the edit, but I think I believe her. She's an empath.

I love empaths. I think it's, it's, it's, it's, it's really cool. And people come out as empaths is because it's like, it's like the self-diagnosing version of like when you go to a job interview. you're like, my greatest weakness, working too hard. You know, it's like, we guys are like, yeah, I don't have a girlfriend because I'm just so much of a nice guy. I just love it when people are just like, yeah, I guess the reason why things are hard for me is because I rule and I like other people too much. It's, it's really fun when somebody who is like, you know, a pretty self-centered person just kind of like,

notices other people enough to like feel their emotions and their immediate reaction is like, oh, wow, this is about me too. Yeah. This is this must mean that I have a superpower. It's just like it's and just assuming that you know everybody else's emotions and you're feeling that other people's emotions is like just on its face like a kind of a self-centered way to navigate the world, I think. So I think that Kristen is a classic at Bath. She's like the label fits her perfectly. Good for her.

Happy for her. And concerned about a struggle at the same time. I want to talk about one other thing in terms of the storytelling. And I think where the Valley has been succeeding for me is when we are getting these pieces of the domestic lives of these people being shown on screen. I feel like when we're seeing like Jacks and Brittany's household and the tensions and the struggles that they're going through, that is so much more compelling than, you know, when these people are being like forced together and to like come up with whatever drama. I feel like the dynamic between like Jesse and Michelle. Also when we get to see like the dark glimpses of their home life, I feel like that is really compelling to me.

and we're just we're not seeing a lot of that we're seeing recently at least we're seeing them all like thrown together and trying to like come up with with shit these people like they barely have their their home life in order they're not concerned about what's going on with like you know other people and so i wish that the show would stop trying to like pretend that they are and let's just see these people kind of like come together every so often like we see at the barbecue where they're, or at the slumber party, where they're just kind of like talking about their relationships and we get to see what their perspective is on,

you know, the other side that we're seeing on camera. Like, I thought it was really interesting to, when we've seen Jesse and Michelle's like home life and their dynamic and how they're like navigating that. And then to see how Jesse sees that and see how Michelle sees that in isolation and get their lens, I feel like that is where this show is really successful for me,

but that's really kind of a B plot to what the show is trying to do. So I'm hoping that this is kind of like a first season, like kind of feeling its way out. But yeah, I think this has like the footings to be successful, but I don't really trust them to take it in that direction based on what I've been seeing. I find that the production value really, matches the aesthetic too. Like, you know, with, with, um,

Vanderpump rules, you've got like, you know, everything is very, uh, very glitzy. And the production value is good. Things are lit really well. And, um, and then you get to this show. And it's just like not, not as much lighting. It's just kind of more handheld. It's a little more flat.

You know, I thought that was, that was interesting. Yeah, totally. Uh, let's, let's get into our highlights. Evan, what were your highlights here? I think probably just all the talking with Jackson Brittany about the alcohol consumption. Just trying to like outdo the other person with like how good they are at being a functional alcoholic or. And then, yeah, I don't know. I think just how contrived that slumber party actually was.

You know, it just was like they were having such a great time and it didn't look fun at all. Yeah, I really like that they like characterize this slumber party. Or Brittany, someone was saying this is like a low key like slumber party. And then we get the immediate montage of it being like pretty lit and, you know, Brittany especially being very lit. Yeah, I like that as well. Dylan, how about you?

What are your highlights? Yeah, aside from Nia's moments of sincere emotion, which we've discussed, the standout bit in terms of just understanding a character or trying to. Yeah, I don't know. I found Jacks and Brittany's dynamic interesting, too. It's mostly just frustrating how bad Jacks can, can be about this stuff. But he has his funny moments too.

I like when he's like eating a bad burger or something. And they're like, don't eat that dude. And he's like, it's great. If I got sick, my wife will take care of me. Just like, just a real Reynolds Woodcock moment from Jacks there. And I, yeah, just I like getting the talk about the mysterious director. And I hope we get more of that. I like that.

It's Luke Colorado who's holding the age. too. Yeah, that was a surprise. Yeah. To have a bit of information there that he can that he could use on someone. Otherwise, it was like not a, not a super thrilling bit of. Yeah. I mean, that's definitely just a gift from Kristen being like, here you go.

Yeah. This is how you play the game. Here's your like piece of information. I'll give you some pointers on how and when to use this. And you can tell he wants like he's got that information. if he didn't have like coach Kristen, he would have dropped that at the party, which would have been exactly the wrong place to do that

because, you know, she's not around. Michelle's not around for that like explosion to happen. So yeah, just really, really appreciate that. Totally. This is Kristen sitting at the poker table where she's been for like 12 hours chain smoking and being like calling her younger partner over and being like, here, take some chips. You know, do you play a hand? Yeah.

Yeah, I think that we talked about most of my highlights. Oh, we forgot to get a quote. Evan, what was your quote from this episode? Get drunk and have fun and be careful. Yes. I'm going to put them on a T-shirt. Yeah. Yeah, James May.

Coming, coming soon. Let's pick our stars. Evan, who are your stars? Man, I think Luke, I think Luke, just being the little shit disturber in the corner in the hot tub. Yeah, I don't know. I can't think of anyone else. Dylan, how about you? I mean, let's get first started in you for opening up a bit.

let's give a second start to Kristen for opening up about her struggles and just generally just being collectively messy as always she's been the most watchable part of the show probably for at least the last couple episodes after Jacks really had the

spotlight for the first couple third star yeah let's give it up to Luke Colorado let's see what he does with his saucy bit of information He's got tucked away in his in his trousers. Yeah, okay. I've got some slightly different stars.

Nia is the number one star for me as well, though, for all the reasons that you mentioned. I want to give Brittany a star here because I think that her arc is kind of like the, the A plot of this episode and kind of navigating this relationship that she's got with alcohol and with Jacks and that whole dynamic. I think, you know, we're seeing the cracks. here. I also really like that Bernie is so concerned about kind of the social positioning, or not even the social positioning, but just like being, like having sex more frequently than

Michelle and Jesse. Like she does not want to hit, you know, the same like dry spell and like, okay, we're like six weeks. We got to, we got to do it. We got to be better than Jesse and Michelle. Like it is some like defining metric of a successful relationship. I really thought that that was funny and tells you a lot about Brittany and how her relationship with Jacks works. And then I want to give a star also to Jesse for continuing to be just like pure poison on screen. I think that this is like maybe one of the best things about the Valley so far is that we have found this guy who is so awful. This guy who sucks so much. yeah yeah it is like amazing to watch just how like toxic he is and talking about you know if michel

cheated i get to you know tell my daughter for the rest of her life about how her mom is a fuck up it's like oh okay there's a reason why they played that line like four times over the course of that episode it's like such a mark of a shitty person and just the way that he like sees the world i thought that this is like, it is so dark to me and it is like, yeah, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, poison. Well, yeah, just like that you know that there's a camera there. Like, you know that there's, you know, obviously, this is not a private conversation. Like, yeah, everyone is going to find out about, this is the version of himself that he wants to present to the world. Right, right. Yeah. Like, even Jacks has like, the awareness to be like, like, a better.

in front of the cameras. Yeah. It's really amazing to see Jesse. So we know just from the meta that Michelle and Jesse split up at some point. So that is no surprise to anyone, but I'm like, I'm eager to see it all kind of unfold and see what we get in front of the camera. If the season so far has been any indication, I think we'll see a lot of the toxicity emerge. So that could be something that keeps me hooked as a viewer. Did you guys have anything else that you wanted to mention before we close out here?

I liked it. I enjoyed it. It really brought me back to my jersey. It's a good, it's a good format. It's a fun type of show. It's always such a mystery why these people sign up and do these things. And I mean, it isn't, it isn't. And I want to get into like, you know, how they, like, I just want to always know what's going on behind the scenes, like how they set this up and what the producers are doing to just make this work.

But, yeah, I know it's fun. Yeah, I've always said my dream reality TV show would be about people making a reality TV show. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Very synecic-y New York. Yeah. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for doing this, Evan. This was a blast.

anything you want to plug or want to let anyone know where they can find you? I'm just a father at home. I'm not making any music videos. So I'm all good. But yeah, thank you. Not yet. Not yet. No, no, no. Thanks for having me a part of this. It's a lot of fun. I'd love to do it again. Yeah, thanks. Thanks for doing it. Dylan, how about yourself? You could find me on substack. Dylan, Ferguson, that's D-Y-L-L-A-N. It's been pretty darned for while, but I should have something up pretty soon about rose glass and love lies bleeding, so it'll come out of its dormancy. That's, uh, that's it for the show this week. You can find us online, bravo outsider. We're on Instagram and TikTok at Bravo Outsider. Subscribe to our YouTube video.

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