Oscars Outsider - VPR S11E14 & The Valley S01E07 Recap/Analysis | Bravo Outsider Podcast

Episode Date: May 3, 2024

This week hosts Craig Midwinter and Dylan Ferguson are digging into S11E14 of Vanderpump Rules and S01E07 of The Valley! 🍸Featured Bravolebs: Vanderpump Rules: Lisa Vanderpump, Tom Schwartz, Tom Sandoval, Ariana Madix, Katie Maloney, Scheana Shay, Lala Kent, James Kennedy, Ally Lewber, Brock Davies The Valley: Brittany Cartwright, Jax Taylor, Kristen Doute, Luke Broderick, Danny Booko, Nia Booko, Janet Caperna, Jason Caperna, Jesse Lally, Michelle Saniei Lally 📣 Stay Connected: Find Dylan Ferguson on Substack at https://dylanferguson.substack.com/ Find Bravo Outsider on Instagram at ⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/bravooutsider https://www.bravooutsider.com 📖 Credits Music by FASSounds from Pixabay #vanderpumprules #bravo #realitytv #pumprules #scandoval #thevalley

Hello and welcome to Bravo Outsider Podcast. I'm your host Craig Midwinter, joined by the coolest motherfucker on the planet, Dylan Ferguson. One of the coolest motherfuckers on the planet. I'm so glad you finally used my nickname. Yeah, I've been begging you and begging you. Yeah, good to be back after a bit of a break. For those of us watching us, you can see that I've got my high fashion choice on it. I call this Holdover's Core.

That's the new luck I've gone for. Oh, love it. Gigi. Serving Gigi. Curl your toes. Awesome. Yeah, no, we had a little bit of a break. I was on vacation.

I was in St. Lucia, you know, Housewives on the island. Yeah, just needed the opportunity to use that season one. Real Housewives Ultimate Girls' trip theme song. One of the, one of the all-time bang. in the Bravo sphere in terms of music.

Underrated. And on Vanderpupup Rules this week, we got another one of the all-time bangers. We got a performance of Touch in Public. Yeah. I did not expect that to ever come back. I know. That is, like I said, one of my favorite Bravo songs. I think it's so much fun.

Insane song. Really crazy. Insane song, insane band. Yeah. Literally insane band. Handmate. I mean, not to be disrespectful to his family or anything, but insane. Like literally, just everything about that song is insane. So it was crazy that that felt like the moment where they like kind of tried to tie a bow on the whole Sandoval's back storyline. They've been building up all season. And it's crazy that they cabbed that off with a touch in public performance. Like that's, I did not see that coming. I think it's because that's the only like original song that he's got in his repertoire. Like everything else. else that he's doing his covers. So they...

Yeah. Everything else he's doing is just like 80s wedding standards with like Tom Schwartz's mom subbed into the lyrics. But it is also like such a brazenly like obnoxious immature kind of song. So it does kind of make sense that that is the capstone on the Sandoval's back storyline. Because it's like we're done with Sadoval. The mopey days are of. over and he's back to being an obnoxious douche and he has permission to do it again.

It's a great choice. Yeah, let's dive right into the Vanderpump Rules episode we're going to talk about. Do you want to start by summarizing? Usually we've got an outsider doing this, but do you want to summarize the events of this episode as you see them? Okay, yeah, I've got to be an outsider. God damn it. I can see why they hate this so much.

It's awful. I mean, yeah, Sandival is back. Sheena is on his side pretty thoroughly, it feels by this point. And I feel like that's kind of the overwhelming theme of this episode. Like, you know, we're going to San Francisco. There's a San Francisco trip, which is starting. And so far, it's like, it feels like a San Deval victory. up in San Francisco.

Yeah, but I actually I thought this was like a pretty good episode for Ariana. That was like she resonated with me a lot this this episode just talking about how she feels like power in her sadness and power in being angry and that's like

what she's embracing. I feel like we are getting just a much clearer picture of her perspective than we have got through most of the season. And this is something that I kind of predicted going into this season was that the Ariana arc there was really nowhere that she could go except for down if that was something they were going to lean heavily into whereas Tom Sandoval is like at the

bottom and it's a much clearer like story for them to focus on is like Sandibald going to try to ingratiate himself back into the group like he's got a lot more room where he can grow. So it makes sense for production and the story perspective for them to focus on that. And it has felt like this season so far. And we're at the like this was the pen ultimate episode. So. Oh, is it really?

This. Yeah. Next, next week I think is the finale. Okay. So. I felt like they didn't do the like next time on the season finale line when we're at the Oh, yeah. You're right.

Maybe I'm wrong. but I thought that next week was... I don't know. Anyways, don't let me derail you. Well, correct us in the comments. No, but I felt like Ariana's side and her perspective has just been a little bit of a void this season. And I know that a lot of the viewers are expressing their disappointment in this season as a result.

Like, everyone was so on Ariana's side, really wanted to see her take her victory last. But it's been so focused on Sandoval, because, you know, for the reasons that I mentioned, I thought that we're finally getting to see, like, why Ariana has had this perspective and why she is, like, obviously we know why she is angry. But we're kind of seeing why she is, like, how she is, like, mentally, like, the space that she's in mentally, I guess, by being empowered. and like, no, I'm not looking to be graceful. I'm not looking to be like forgiving. I'm finding power in my anger. I am like, you know, embracing my rage.

I really like love that. I feel like something that even on our podcast that we have been like a bit critical on her. And I thought that it was great to see her kind of like call that out on the nose. I thought, yeah, I just thought it was a really great episode for her. Well, she definitely sent me Googling the term gray rocking. That was a new one for me, the therapy speak. Yeah, that's a good point you make. I think you have to interpret a little bit what she was trying to say to Brock there.

But it does, you can read it kind of, yeah, the way that you spelled it out there makes a lot of sense. And I think she makes a good point. I don't think like definitely, yeah, I've been kind of critical of her sometimes. times I have definitely not been saying like she should be more graceful and forgiving. I've been, my perspective has been more like I would like to see more of her perspective, like see her explaining her mindset, which is why my favorite moment of her was when she like kind of broke down a bit and like tearfully explained her attachment to the house because that it's like, you know, and that's me being a viewer of a show too, wanting to understand people's mindsets because,

you know, it's a TV show. part. So, and part of the, the other reason why it's hard for the show to make Arianna's voyage a storyline as much as Tom's is, is because she's not being as expressive. She's not being as vulnerable in terms of just opening up and saying how she feels. And she doesn't have to do that if she doesn't want to, right? And I think that's kind of what she was saying, too, with their whole, like, gray rocking thing is like, if I don't want to engage with it, I don't have to. Sure, fair enough. It is frustrating as a viewer, though. And it makes it harder for us to. to sympathize with and understand if it's not like being explained to us. And that's one thing that made Sheena's role in this episode interesting, because like I said, it does feel kind of like this is Sheena finally committing herself to being team Tom Sandoval after equivocating for several episodes while he like tries to warm her up

and soften her up to him, is that when she actually does have a conversation with Tom near the end. She's actually trying to explain Ariana's perspective to Tom. And that moment where we get that a bit of an insight into Ariana's perspective, it's not Ariana saying it. It's Ariana still not

really explaining it. Instead, we have Sheena explaining her view of it. Well, the editors cut in images of Ariana kind of walking by herself on a balcony overlooking a cityscape looking a little sad. Great work by the editors there, right? We have to kind of have somebody else

speaking for her because she's not really speaking for herself. And that also makes she just position interesting to me because it shows the value in actually engaging with other people and especially with Sandoval, which again, Ariana doesn't have to do that if she doesn't want to. But you can see how like, even though most people are probably going to read this as just Shina abandoning Ariana by becoming Sandoval's friend, she's actually using this, opportunity to explain Ariana's perspective to Tob in a way that he might not get otherwise if Sheena had just stonewalled him and said, I'm not going to speak to you at all.

Like, that she's actually showing the value and actually communicating and instead of just putting up a wall between yourself and other people. Yeah, that's true. And I think like what I agree completely with what you're saying, like, Ariana as a human, like she is totally within her rights. and it is probably a very, like, healthy stance for her to take, like, you know, closing herself off, not being vulnerable, like, you know, just like stealing out or gray rocking as she called it. But that is at odds with, you know, making a TV show and giving the production team the tools they need in order to construct her story in a sympathetic way. They don't have a lot of options for what they can do. So yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Anything stand out to you about how this episode was presented?

Aside from that bit with the cross-cutting with Arianna and Sheena's explanation, I like the boat ride. Like, I just always like, it's always fun when they go in a boat. But, you know, in the real housewives universe, it's usually just like a placid blue sheet under a sun. And this time, you know, they're in Northern California and you get like an proper boat ride with like, you know, choppy, steely waves. And I like that as kind of a representative of this. What makes Vanderpub extra appealing as a show is that it's a little bit less like a glossy fantasy and a little bit more like where we're dispensing with a confectionary

bullshit and we're just, we're just showing you nasty people's nasty lives. And I did like how there was a sense of actual like tension and worry in that. choppy boat ride, which just felt like having all the characters together in a boat always feels like a perfect metaphor. And when it's like a stormy, shitty weather occasion, like great. I love that.

And it's a second troublesome boat ride we've had in this season. But the first one with like really like nasty weather and proper waves. And that's just satisfying aesthetically for me. Yeah, totally. I also really love the boat ride. think one of the things that sit out to me in terms of the storytelling was I thought it was just really nice for them to use Alcatraz as a symbol here. I loved how they were, Tom and Tom were having this discussion about whether or not the guys escaped from Alcatraz from the shore.

And, you know, Tom Sandoval has escaped from a prison of his own creation. He has made it across. He has like traversed the sea and he is like, he's standing. on the shore just like he's actually there present on this group trip with everyone. Everyone's in the same room. I really just like this as a symbol. I thought it was really good for them to kind of include this little conversation. Totally. I never thought of that.

You're absolutely right, especially because from Zandval's perspective, he's been presenting this the whole time as like this endurance test, this strength test, this like a thing that he has to claw his way through. and like a prison breaks through torturous circumstances. So that is kind of like in his mind, he probably sees what he's gone through as being equivalent to

escaping from Alcatraz and swimming to the shore. Yeah, totally. Let's get into our highlights. What were your highlights here? I mean, I'm glad that Joe's back and T is back too. I didn't expect either T or Joe would come back. But here they both are. And the touch and public is back too.

a lot of things I didn't expect to be back suddenly coming back. So that's like, it is just a highlight for me to have to have Joe back, even though like I'm just, you know, still still really worried for her, like not going to end up well. And I love how Schwartz is all like, you know, I just want to make sure that I'm not, you know, giving you any mixed signals, just being totally clear, no mixed signals. And then like 30 seconds later, it's like, this is Joe,

I'm going to marry her at eight years. Like, dude, no, that's not, that is a mixed signal. That's, you're doing it again immediately right after you said you weren't going to do it. But as we've discussed that like before, just having her like presence within the frame is just always exciting because she's just like so dynamic. She can do anything with her body very awkwardly at any moment. You never know what she's going to do with her body, including like pushing Tom and two pedestrian and just like contorting it into all kinds of like insecure forms. So there's just that energy that just comes right off the screen. She's like the Jim Carrey of reality television, like just able to perform such like physical transformations.

Yeah, totally. Or like Jerry Lewis or something. Like she could just like that kind of like intense awkward physicality that could manifest into any form at any time is totally part of her vibe. But I love it. So it hasn't done much yet. to have her back. Interesting that we get to have Dan become a bit of a character now too.

Though he hasn't done very much yet either. He comes out of hiding to go directly into hiding on screen. Yeah, very avoidant, right? Like, he wants Lala to know that he's unbothered by Tom Sandoval, but that's like not an emotion. That's like, you're just saying what you're not. And he's just like, doesn't want to engage with him, but doesn't want to explain why. He just, he's not given us much. He just seems to be kind of avoiding it.

And that's probably what Ariana wants from him too. So he's probably doing what she would rather he does too. But it does feel very avoided. So it's kind of, kind of disappointed. The only thing I feel like we learned about him was that he doesn't want to move to L.A. and he's got a sleeve allergy. And that's about it.

Yeah. What about you? What should grab you in this one? Yeah. Like I mentioned about Ariana, I feel like getting her perspective was a big highlight for me. I also really enjoyed what we got from Schwartz this episode. As we've repeatedly mentioned this season,

seeing Schwartz trying to navigate this situation that he has no tools to do. He always wants to be the well-liked guy and to see him be happy about being on Ariana's good side or being tolerated by her. I thought was really good. I love that we got more of this, like, post-divorce friendship dynamic from Katie with, like, these ghosts of the past where he's, like, trying to, like, joke about their intimacy. But it's obviously, like, a really raw subject. And he, like, has to pivot away from it immediately after. I just really like seeing Schwartz playing from a disadvantage because we've never really seen that before.

it's so awkward. And I do love, I love him with like kind of hitting on Katie. I think it's a great. You know, go for it. Take go. Shoot your shot. Why not? I remember that like bit and like coffee and cigarettes where,

where they're like, you know, the great part of about having quit smoking is that you can have a cigarette once in a while. You know, I feel that way about relationships. Like, you know, the great part about realizing it's time to end your relationship and moving on from another person is that you can hook up with them once in a while. And I'm glad that Schwartz seems to share my philosophy. And it's not going to work, but good for him. We're going for that.

I love that you reference like coffee and cigarettes because anytime we see like Schwartz and Katie together, it does have that same exact vibe as a conversation from coffee and cigarettes. Their post-breakup vibes, I love them. I love their conversations. I love the mix of like friendly, friendly tension combined. with like a burbling trauma under the surface, mostly on Katie's side. But it's just they've got such dynamic tension when it's just the two of them with nobody else around. I'm always going to love those suits.

Yeah, totally. Another one of my highlights, just a little thing was that when at the beginning at Kyle Chan's shop, when Sandoval comes in, he introduces himself to one of the guys as Sando. like it's part of this like rebrand that he's just you know toying with he's like not not comedy more he's sando I did notice there was a guy named like Pete with two E's and like and there's another weird name too it was just Kyle shop was just weird as hell it was just like a weird

vibes in that place his collection of friends were like just the strangest people they seemed he seemed to be collecting weird friends the same way he's collecting weird jewelry in that strange shop I really like that setting very bizarre. Yeah. I also really like the colors with like Sandoval wearing white, Sheena wearing black while they have this conversation and they're trying to like Sandoval is trying to like argue that you should be looking at the grays and things.

I just thought that was kind of nice presentation there. Yeah. I think that like this dynamic between Sandoval and Sina is a real. highlight. Obviously, that's kind of what we end this episode on. It's setting the stage for going into the finale, if next week is the finale. I think the last line is literally Sheena being like, let's walk back in together or Sandoval like, let's walk back in together. It ends on a hug between the two of them. We also got the storyline of, you know, Tom Schwartz and Tom Sandoval living together kind of tied up. Like they are planning on doing that. I don't know if that actually ends up.

happening or not, but for the purpose of the, like, the show, we've got that arc kind of tied up. And we are seeing, you know, the final battle being, like, the sides are like, uh, kind of defined now. The one question mark, I guess, is James, like, where he lands. We do see him at Tom's show. Um, but he has always kind of been hedging his bets with, with Tom's and of all. So I feel like he's going to align with whatever makes the most sense at that moment or whatever he feels emotionally. Yeah. Or whoever seems to have more social capital when things start to shake up.

Yeah. He's just a little rubber ducky floating in a bubble bath right now. Speaking of great aesthetics, that was a wonderful moment. Delightful. Um, yeah, I, all around, I thought this was like a great episode for it being an episode. I often find on Housewives, especially when they're going on a cast trip and you've got like the, the setting change. They spend a lot of time on that transition from, you know, the setting we're used to to like the new setting. Um, and so often those episodes, there's not a lot of exposition that happens.

Vanderpump Rules is like so rich with these like character dynamics that we see like anytime these people are together we can't help but see something happen. Some we either get more of someone's character. We see a little glimmer of a dynamic that is like interesting. Yeah, I thought that there was like for an episode where there's not a lot of moving the story forward. we just got a lot of cast engagement that was really good to watch. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And I also like that they're like all wearing San Francisco hoodies for some reason. Like they just go full tourists when they're there and they're all wearing hoodies that say like SF on them.

No, Brock made them go and buy them. He told them that they all needed to go and shop at the stores and get like warm clothing. Right. Yeah, because Brock is so stoked to be going to San Fran for the first time. That's pretty cute. I like that for him. I also like that he gets to drive the boat. Good for him.

Also, Lola had a couple of bad takes as I'm going to say. But she's like, what is it with men wanting to drive boats? Like, what part of that is fun? Like, are you kidding me? Yeah. What the hell? Like, how can you not wrap your head around driving a boat being fun and cool? How is that obscure to you?

The other one I thought was a little weird was when she was like, I don't know about this Dan guy. but like really you're going to start dating somebody who just got out of a 10 year relationship. Like, why not? What? Like, what's, I don't know. Like, what's wrong with that? I think that there are like red flags about Dan. He does feel like there is, I don't know, there's something that feels a little off about him.

Yeah, I don't know. I feel like I haven't had it seen enough to judge yet. So I'm going to withhold judgment. But one thing that does, like, make my eyebrows raise is when he says something like, oh, I have so many jobs. And I'm like, when people say that, I just immediately think like, you're a hustler, that you're a con man. Like people who say they have lots of jobs are people who are who kind of read as con men in my eyes. But like I said, I'll need to see some more from him before I start like making a judgment calls about his character.

Because he's just kind of sluttering off camera so far. Yeah, he's very comfortable like, you know, saying one thing and then acting another way with the unbothered. You know, I'm unbothered by Sandoval, but I'm just going to completely, you know, refuse to engage with him and hide for him. When he shows up, not go to any of the like cast events. Yeah. Though part of me wonders if that's,

he's just doing what Ariana wants him to do. And he knows that Arelletta doesn't want him to say, I'm going to avoid him because Ariana asked me to. So he's just like not saying that. I don't know if that's true though. Any other highlights that you had? Lots of sea lions. That's great.

Love seeing sea lions. Love seeing animals. Oh, yeah. The cuddle puddle. Yeah. adorable. They look like they stink so bad, but they're adorable. Yeah, that about covers it, I guess. We also got an insert shot of them like watching a windsurfer die.

How funny would it be if there's another shot where you can like rescue vehicles just like rescue boats and helicopter just just coming it in the background. Like just a brief glimpse in another shot. and like pulling a body out of the waves just ignored by everybody on the boat I'm sure he's fine RIP, we'll do a little montage in memory. Okay, let's get our stars.

Who are your stars, Dylan? I don't know. I feel like, like, Sandville was friends in center. I'm not sure I want to give him a star, though. I'm just kind of gotten I've gotten so tired with the Sadovel act and the fact that they like make it so

apparent that this is his victory tour is just kind of getting exhausting to me. So I think I'll leave him off. Let's let's give her start of Sheena for doing the doing a lot of work, talking a lot, you know, making conversations happen, making a like really talking pointedly to Sandoval. And like really making him reckon with what she's saying. I think she did a good job there in that conversation. Let's give her first star. Yeah, we also got her and Brock talking a lot about their relationship, or we maybe not talking a lot about their relationship, but kind of continuing to uncover the sore points, like the just how they parent and, you know, Brock wanting a bit more space from the child or just a bit more freedom.

Not space from the child, but more freedom to like go out and do things, whereas, you know, Sheena is still very very. tethered. Yeah. Yeah. So you know what, let's give second star to Brock too because he's so happy to be there. Good, good for you, buddy. Have fun. Yeah, I'm going to contest that star, though. I feel like it's so lazy for him to do a roaring 20s party here. Sure. We just had the like the burlesque party in this exact same episode. Yeah. No, you're right. I was thinking that too. I was like, and even like the, um, the something about her restaurant interior seems very like 20s kind of slightly art nouveau inspired. I was really feeling like there's so much like 20 stuff happening. It's becoming too much, too much. And that is this kind of feel like a default theme too. He wasn't reaching very far with that.

Like you could do something a little more like, I don't know, San Francisco themed. Like we're going to be gold diggers and crabs or something. I don't know. You can workshop that a little bit more. But, yeah, I didn't reach far. for that. I still liked him in this episode though. He was having fun. I just like to

like to see him having fun. Big old Kiwi Lunk having a good time. Did it know they had Mormons down there down under by the way? He says he was raised Mormon. That was a surprise to me. And let's give a third start to Ariana

because she did give us a little bit a little bit more. You know, the conversation with Brock was an interesting moment. It wasn't like super coherent but it was like there's enough there that we start to like understand some things, some things are starting to fall into place. It was,

it was, there's some stuff that's too on. I like your interpretation of it, Craig. I think it was, uh, it was good to have a, have that moment from her.

And the, the runners up, uh, stars four through 76 are all the seat lines. Yeah. Love it. Um, yeah,

my number one star is going to be Ariana. Just, I, I just really loved that we were getting more from her. And, um, her perspective was, was like really

it really framed how her presentation was this season I would say Schwartz is my number two star and number three star I'm going to give to Sheena yeah let's

let's get into the valley let's start it off with a summary what happened here Dylan I'd summarize it in two words marriage sucks well, this was really dark for me. I loved it. Like, it was a good episode.

I feel like it's starting to really, like, get its legs under at the show. Like, for a while there, it was kind of my attention was drifting. I wasn't really grabbing me. But from last episode, the previous one, which ended with, like, the best hallway fight I've seen since Old Boy leading into this one was like, you know, things are getting heavy. things are really getting weighty and dark. Like this is, to me,

this show is getting really dark. Like these relationships all suck. Everybody's trapped. Everybody's unhappy. It's just like, it's heavy. It is like, you know,

we've got obviously Michelle and Jesse who loathe each other and are trapped in a terrible, uh, marriage. Nia's got depression and can't, and can't see a way out of her cage. um, Britney's stuck with Jacks and is, which, uh, is, is a horrible penalty in it of itself. And they're, and they're both clearly unhappy.

Um, I mean, what else? Luke Colorado is, is, and Kristen are, are in a relationship that's probably not going to end anywhere pleasant. Um, yeah. And, uh, uh, Janet is, uh, is with a guy who's like, so lame that, he thinks that the cool part about Bonnie and Clyde is that they could potentially reform and obey the law. I'm starting to appreciate Jason more, actually. I never like, because we haven't had too much from him, but I'm starting to find him funny because I'm like, okay, he's just like a fucking boy scout.

He's just a square. That's what he was, it was crazy to me when he's talking to Luke and he's like, yeah, okay, you guys are like, Bonnie and Clyde. But like, if, if Clyde would say to Bonnie, like, we could stop robbing banks, then maybe, you know, then you could stop robbing banks. Like, Jason, that's not why anybody likes the Bonnie and Clyde story. That's, what, that's, how can you misunderstand it so badly that, like, the appeal of that story is not. Well, theoretically, they could like, you know, live a law abiding life. No, it's that robbing banks would be cool and fun. How do you not get that? so yeah they're all they're they're they're all trapped they're all sad um just uh did you find

it as dark and brutal as i did oh yeah for sure yeah i i think like the dynamic between jesse and michel is so like front and center it's most of what people are talking about but we are seeing all of the imperfections in all of these relationships except for you Yeah, Janet and Jason were not seeing much of a... Yeah, I kind of had to reach for that one. But I do love that, like, Janet is getting so focused on other people's, like, drama because... Yeah. She's just got a standard, like, boring, happy life.

Yeah, exactly. I mean, good for her. Sure. Like, I like how, like, concerns Jason. Like, he gets it. He's like, you know, she's pregnant and staying at home. So she's getting really into gossip. but he's like really bothered by it.

He's like, I feel like, is she maybe drawing some enjoyment from others' misery? Is that legal? But yeah, obviously, Michelle and Jesse is just so toxic. Kent can't stop soon enough. They can't figure out a way to separate soon enough, especially if Michelle really is like, feeling so trapped in this relationship that she's spending time away from it to like hang out with Quentin Tarantino and listen to him like describe the plot of welcome back

Cotter to her, which is what I see him Quentin Tarantino does with people he dates. Like it must be grim. What did you like about the presentation of this episode? In terms of aesthetics, there was like one one really nice moment, which is when we have a bit of Nia dealing with her sadness and we get a shot of her at like a playground from outside the fence to

to give the idea that she's fenced in she's like caged in that she doesn't see that she's learning how to acknowledge that she might have depression but still doesn't see a way out of it like she's still fenced in by it so that's a pretty literal shot choice but it works at the scene and it helps help sell her story

so that was good. I also I also like that scene just the contrast that we got from her like dealing with this like this depression that she's got when there's so much like joy around her there's this like pure innocent joy it's a playground there's kids playing everywhere and yeah you know she's still like you said she's fenced in by her sadness and like she's numb to it she describes herself as as numb to it and um yeah so i thought that that was like a good contrast for them to have her having this conversation with her sister-in-law there.

It was a good contrast. Yeah, yeah. I also enjoy the editing choice of having Jackson, Brittany, in that, like, tantric love nest session, whatever the hell that bullshit was. Like, that... Incense, Pechuli, that stuff is, like, there's nothing less erotic for being the world. I can't understand that at all, like, sitting on the floor will,

while somebody burns incense and like it just seems like the opposite of like what would rekindle your erotic desire for one another. But I mean, maybe it works for some people, I guess, whatever. I guess maybe I just need to smoke more weed for that to like be something that that gets me going. But the choice they have in that moment of to show these like flashbacks to their to their relationships while Jacks and Brittany hold hands and like stare at each other or whatever, hell that that woman was doing making them open their third eye or some shit. And that we have these flashbacks of Jacks, like, you know, seeing Britney coming to his life

and, like, treating her as, like, the most important person or whatever. And then Britney has kind of images of, like, Jack's being shitty to her, like, playing through her head. Or that's the editing implies that that's what's playing through her head. makes a strong case as does their final conversation that, you know what? This relationship is really bad for you, Brittany, actually.

And then so that when that ends, and it ends with a shot of Britney's face and she's saying, you know, that felt good. And Jacks is kind of nodding at it. It really feels like they're applying like, yeah, it felt good for Britney for the opposite reasons that Jacks was hoping for. Like it felt like they strongly implied that she's gaining clarity on the fact that she's in a bad

relationship rather than, you know, feeling her passions are awakened for Jax or whatever. So I like the implication that that whole moment, that whole choice of Jax is, like, ended up completely backfiring and doing the opposite of what I was expected to do. And the, yeah, the editing just like really sold that well, I thought. Yeah. So I am really actually enjoying Brittany on The Valley. And that's something I was not expecting to say going into this because I feel like throughout like van der pump rules she has always just been someone that we don't have a lot of any internal like story like we don't see her confront her own like internal character at all she's just kind of at the mercy of whatever the

like the current of jack's taylor is is bringing her way and she kind of goes with it uh we We're seeing her kind of start swimming against that current a little bit and we're seeing her confront internally like what she wants and what is good for her. I think it's like it's really compelling. Yeah, I'm I'm enjoying her a lot this season and just like the little pieces that she's trying to like claw from this world that Jacks has created around her like trying to. get her claws into this bar that has Jacks' name on it and stuff like that. I think it's really interesting to see her trying to like, you know, claw back some identity from this world that has, you know, that has trapped her. Yeah, totally.

No, I'm also finding it really interesting to see her kind of struggle with her way up to that kind of idea of herself in the situation she's in trying to see it more objectively when you also understand the difficulty of that. when she kind of gets too confrontational with Jacks, we see what happens in like the scene at the end where he is like right away like, do you think this house just appeared out of nowhere? And you can you can understand why there's like kind of a pressure probably being put on her to not get that confrontational,

which probably makes it a lot more difficult for her to kind of reckon with what her situation is in life right now and what she would want to maybe want to do if she, if she needs to make changes or whatever. And again, these marriages feel very, like, imprisoning in every way that we're seeing them. And it's, yeah, it's not a heartening look. And it doesn't encourage me either to have, like, people saying these cliches about, like, oh, marriage is hard work.

You know, some marriage people just love to say that, right? Like, marriage is hard work. It takes hard work. It's grueling effort. It's toil. It's like, you're slaving away in the labor camp in Siberia. It's nothing but grim. work. And they say that proudly.

Like, I'm like, that sounds like it sucks, dude. Like what? I mean, I get the idea that like, yes, something's worthwhile. It's worth like putting in the effort to uphold it and stuff. But at a certain point, it just sounds like you're just like bragging about sadistically, masochistically, about like having a shitty life. And like, and that's why when people who are obviously pretty shitty husbands like Jesse and Jacks say like, divorce is not something that happens in our family. We don't say the D word. To me, it sounds more like a threat than a boast. Like, you're trapped in this hell with me. There's no way out.

Like, sometimes divorce is like pretty good idea. And the others, there's a reason why it's like one of the biggest like social achievements in certain countries in the last like 50 years is like creating no fault divorce so that people especially women in a, abusive relationships have like an actual way to get out like so when people talk about like divorce like it's a dirty word you can't say that it's like that's like that's not an encouraging thing for me to hear coming out of your mouth actually yeah totally um but very consistent with his character just having some like backward ass perspective on you know how a uh a relationship should work yeah um one thing that i think is interesting about jesse and michel's dynamic is often when we see a relationship

with this much like tension and hate on these shows it's something that we have seen like develop over time. It feels pretty rare that we get this in depth of a view of this kind of toxic relationship in

people's first seasons on a show. It usually takes like two or three and they are kind of aware of how to use the camera to their advantage in these situations. Specifically on like housewives, we see lots of times in a relationship where the housewife,

I'm thinking like Ashley Darby on Potomac, when she sits down in conversation with like Michael Darby, making sure that she's getting things on camera, using the camera to her advantage and kind of it being a tool for communication and getting what you want and negotiating. because, you know, it adds, it adds stakes that don't exist when you're having a conversation in private because you've got so many eyes and people are worried about how they are presented. And there's a power imbalance on, on household eyes typically because the women are so much more comfortable in front of the camera because that's their job they do it every day. Whereas, you know, it's just a part-time thing for a lot of the men.

So it's always interesting to see them be able to use the tools that they're at or at their, at their department. disposal in order to gain an advantage, but we don't have that dynamic here between Jesse and Michelle. We kind of actually see it a little bit in the relationship between Jacks and Brittany, just because Jacks has more on-camera experience, he knows how to use the camera to his advantage a little bit more. And this is something that like Bernie is still feeling out. But to see this kind of raw toxic relationship, like right out of the gate is such a pure and interesting thing to watch. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

It is fascinating. It is very fascinating. And I really love the scene where we have Jesse and Michelle talking over their kitchen table discussing Kristen's terrible lies and how they're tearing their, or how Jesse says, it actually brought us closer together. And then they even conclude by saying, like, yeah, we're team. Team Jesse and Michelle, it brought us closer together, and it's so unconvincing. Like, you can literally see whatever vestiges of trust they had in each other left, just eroding as they speak while they're, like, putting on this completely unconvincing front about being like, yeah, it made us trust each other even more, actually,

that she's so doubt in our relationship. Totally didn't work at all what she was trying to do. Just really enjoyed that. See, I just love the way they look at each other. Love the way they look at each other. Yeah, yeah, leading over the kitchen island and stuff and just like absolutely sinking deeper and deeper into the muck of mistrust as they tried to on the surface proclaim that. Oh, yeah, we don't believe any of that. That's not bothering us whatsoever.

With these new rumors that have been added to the pile. Yep, we're all good here. Great fascinating. The thing about their dynamic that is so interesting. to me is that Michelle comes across as someone with like so much guilt like she comes across like very guilty in this situation and jesse comes across as someone that is like less concerned about whether or not like she's guilty but like he is enjoying the power that he has as a result of there being this like shadow of guilt over michel like he is clearly like a full

blown asshole and he's just latching on to this like leverage that he has you know where he is like potentially not the bad guy in the relationship because she did something bad like she made a mistake and so that's like and so he's the good guy and he's just like reveling in the power that that like idea gives him in the group narrative um really really fascinating to watch Yeah, like you literally said the other episode where I was like, well, if she's cheating on me, great. Then I get to tell our kid that she ruined the marriage for the rest of her life. Like very, very psychopathic energy. He does not have that.

He's not struggling with guilt or shame because I don't think he produces those serums. Yeah. The one thing that I wanted to call out about the presentation of this show that I've noticed through many episodes is the use of like the tilt shift on the inserts. Like any of these overhead shots that we're seeing of the neighborhood, they've got the tilt shift effect. And if you're not sure what that is, that is like the effect where it's kind of like out of focus, both at the top and bottom of the frame.

And it makes everything look like a miniature. I like this framing of the world that they live in as being like toys and being them being like dolls kind of moving around through. this this world that they live in because we have seen so much of that contrast between them saying hey we're the adults in this situation like we're the grown-up vanderpump rules were mature um but like their actions are the complete opposite we're seeing like titty twisters and pantsing being like carrying the story through and um we're seeing them really like playhouse we're getting them like these children they're

They're just children playing house. And I like that that's the way that this is being framed. It ties in with the like the teaser that we got where Jacks is like going around on the little like power wheel or whatever. Which by the way, what was up with that scene? I don't know if it was this episode or the last where they're in the golf cart. I think that was this episode, right? Where they drive the golf cart to the bar. Yeah, Jacks drives a golf cart up to the bar, which was great.

That's cool. Do they not have a car? I mean, he said something like, yeah, I drive that everywhere. So I feel like he's just having, he just enjoys driving a golf cart. Are you allowed to do that? Is that like street legal? I don't know. It seemed like they were like on the interstate weather.

They were just like cruising. It doesn't seem very safe. But it's great. That feels very like on brand for Jacks. Putting a little driving gloves and just getting a little golf cart. Yeah. What are your highlights from this episode?

Yeah, we've pretty much covered it, I think. Like that scene in the kitchen between Jesse and Michelle was really great for me. Another one I haven't mentioned, too. And again, Kristen had another good episode. I thought Kristen's great. I love what she brings, even though everybody is trying their hardest to freeze her out, to take her down. love Luke Colorado trying to confront her after the bowling match and just like stuttering,

nervous, unable to do it. Just love like his energy contrasted with hers and like the way that he tries to like take a stand and like communicate some of the things that the boys are saying and just like can't really get her to engage the way that that, uh, that he wants her to, whereas she continues to pull him into this world of gossip and intrigue that he doesn't want to be a part of at all. But that she's so experienced at playing this.

Exactly. It's her world. One thing that is like really amazing about that scene, sort of like cut you off, was that we saw early in this season how Kristen gives Luke this piece of information to use. Like here's like your monopoly money to come and like play play a hand. Yeah.

Come over to the table with me. Yeah. And then we get the this contrast where, you know, he's like scolding her for like, you know, saying like talking shit. And she realizes that he gave her the information like wrong. And she's got to navigate this situation that he has like inadvertently like put her in because. Yeah. You know, she has said the wrong thing. She has repeated the information incorrectly.

She was not given the information with enough clarity. And so she has to deal with, like, her, like, his amateur, like, play style and, like, cleaning up his mess and not using information properly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. She's totally like, you know, I gave you some chips to play with and you, and, oh, now you're telling me that you lost money on them. All right. I see.

I see. out this is going. And he's just like, I never wanted to play, man. So this is the dynamic between. It was really funny to me. And that that scene was just really funny. Just like Kristen's like kind of, you know, thick energy of just like kind of like lounging on the floor. You know, she's a floor sitter, right? And, and Luke just kind of sitting up on the chair like kind of stiff and nervous was just like a great, great contrast there. and love to see Luke just try to, try to rein in Kristen some way.

And it's just, it's not going to work for you, man. That's not going to happen. Like, you're in her world now. Yeah, totally.

The dynamic of having, like, this amateur, you know, player paired with the, you know, this, like, experience elite level player is,

is so fun to, to just, yeah, see, I'm definitely looking forward to that. Yeah. Um, yeah,

any other highlights? Um, now we're pretty, pretty much got through my highlights, I think. Yeah. Yeah, I think that both covers my highlights too. The one other thing that I wanted to call out was the little, uh, talking head that we got from Jacks where he's like, oh, this was such an easy, easy assignment that I, I gave to, um, to Jasmine to, you know, go find out what the text were. bring it back to me so I can drop the bomb. It should have been so easy, but I'm dealing with amateurs here. I just love that. We got that glimpse of him. Yeah, he is a strategic player.

He knows how this all works. I love that. Yeah, we've got the two pros here. We've got Jackson, Kristen, the two pros. Kristen's being viciously attacked by everybody. And Jacks has kind of managed to stay aside for a bit, but it's like trying to play hands and getting frustrated because the other people aren't on the same level as he is.

It's great. I know. He wants to like have his battles are outside of the house, but all his like, his battles are inside the house. He's got to like deal with this situation with Brittany, which is the at the forefront of his story. And he he doesn't really have the tools to deal with that, whereas he does have the tools to, you know, go be messy with other people's problems.

Totally. Yeah. So who are your stars from this episode? episode. You know what? Let's give a first start of Brittany Cartwright. I did enjoy seeing her mindset a little bit. I feel for her. I'm very sad for her. Tough spot she's in, but I like that she is like working through her feelings a little bit, standing up for herself a little bit. Good for her. I like to see Brittany in this episode. Let's give a second start to Kristen, guys, still enjoying her work. They're all going to come after her with full force. And, uh, And I think she's got to come out looking, uh, looking better than a lot of them by seasons. And I think she's got some, she's got some cards up her sleeve still. And, uh, just, just always a pleasure to watch. Um, third star, um, hmm, uh, I don't know. Let's, uh, you know, let's give Jackson a third star because, uh, he did, he did have a lot going on. He was funny.

And, uh, uh, uh, yeah, he still think he's a shitty husband, but he's a funny guy. He had some good moments. Also, shout out to Kristen for using the expression, Fertile Myrtle. That was a good one. I think my number one star is Jesse and Michelle's relationship. That scene was giving everything. You're cheating.

What are you, Time magazine? What is this? Number two is Jackson, Brittany's relationship. Love that. that we're getting that dynamic. Well, what's number three? The person listening to this show? No, number three, I'll give to Kristen, though, like you said, we're getting a lot from her.

Actually, the relationship between Kristen and Luke, we got a lot from. Yeah, I think that about does it for this week. Don't you have anything you want to bring up before we close it out here? No, I think that's good. I think that's good. I'm glad that the Valley is starting to heat up a little bit. I mean, I know we've got some other shows that are on the docket. So I don't know how much we'll stick with it, but we'll see.

But I feel like it's been really, it's been really starting to hook me after a few episodes of feeling a little weaker. Yeah, well, Vanderpump Rules, if it ends next week, if we're right about that, then we'll have both the finale of Vanderpump Rules and the premiere of Real House Lives and New York. Jersey next episode. That's good. Can't wait for New Jersey. The online discourse surrounding Real House House of New Jersey is the most insane and toxic like online world I have ever

been a part of. And it's like heating up like nobody's business. There's so much going on there. We don't normally cover the online, off-camera stuff. But maybe we'll do a little recap going into the season just to catch people up on what's been going on.

But yeah, we'll, looking forward to next week's episode for sure. Yeah, do you want to let everyone know where they can find you? Sure. You can find me writing about movies on Substack, Dylan Ferguson. That's me. Awesome. I'm Craig Midwinter. We are on Instagram at Bravo Outsider.

We're on TikTok at Bravo Outsider. Find us mostly on YouTube. you can listen to us on your podcast platform of choice. I don't know. I'm still on the island. Bravo Outsider.com. We've got links to everything. Until next week, keep on wiping.