Oscars Outsider - We made someone who doesn't follow Bravo watch RHOSLC's shocking finale... w/ Andy Noble

Episode Date: January 5, 2024

Welcome to the Bravo Outsider Podcast! Join hosts Craig Midwinter, Dylan Ferguson and Sandy Klowak along with special guest Andy Noble for an episode packed with insights and analysis on the gripping season finale of the Real Housewives of Salt Lake City (S04E16) 🍸Featured Housewives: RHOSLC: Lisa Barlow, Heather Gay, Meredith Marks, Whitney Rose, Monica Garcia, Angie Katsanevas, with Mary Cosby 📣 Stay Connected: Find Andy Noble on Instagram at ⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/andynoblejokes Find Sandy Klowak on Instagram at ⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/corporealcurios⁠⁠ Find Dylan Ferguson on Substack at https://dylanferguson.substack.com/ Find Bravo Outsider on Instagram at ⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/bravooutsider 📖 Credits Music by FASSounds from Pixabay

Happy New Year and welcome to the Bravo Outsider Podcast. I'm your host, Craig Midwinter, and I'm pleased to be joined by both Dylan Ferguson and Sandy Cloak. Happy New Year's, guys. Happy New Year. Happy New Year. Yeah. Any resolutions of note that you want to share?

Stop doing this show. So far we failed. I wanted to do a resolution that I knew I could get out of the way really quickly. Something you can knock out, you can cancel out the possibility of it ever being accomplished within the first week, and then move on with your life. Yeah. Well, today we're super excited to be joined once again by the very funny Andy Noble. You've exploited my vagina for your book. There we go.

Exploited. Exploited was an important word. I'm glad I got it on the second take. Excellent. Very, very happy to have you back, Andy. So for people who have been following our show, you've been on way back in the early days. But you have actually been exposed to a couple of the personalities that we saw in this. I think you were on when we were covering Real Housewives Ultimate Girls' Trip season three, which featured Whitney and Heather.

That's true. My favorite, Heather. Yeah. Yeah. So what did you think about them on Ultimate Girls Trip versus in the episode that we're covering? Well, it's different. And I feel a little bit spoiled by the episodes that I've been given because I got Ultimate Girls Trip, which as far as I could tell was like an All-Star game. Yeah. And now I've got the season finale, which felt like more of like a Game 7 championship kind of vibe to me. Like I never, you never give me just a mid-season. season before the Christmas break episode. You're giving me the heaters. And I appreciate that. Saving the best for you. Yeah. Absolutely. In terms of differences, it's, it's like I said, I saw Whitney and Heather

the ultimate girls trip where they're all getting together and they're all just trying to poke the bear. And there isn't a lot of that, you know, background stuff that happened, you know, six seasons ago or whatever it is. So it was more of like a feeling out kind of a, an episode Whereas this, you could tell there's a lot of history there. This isn't people that are feeling each other out. These people know each other. These women know each other. And they're in the trenches.

And it's definitely a different vibe. That being said, Heather is still the same. As far as I can tell. That's why she's my favorite because I really do think she genuinely just wants everyone else to like her. Yeah, that's true. she definitely does like really want both her castmates and the public to like her. And at the end of last season, I feel like she was at a point where people were a little bit tired of her.

But boy, did she bring it, especially in this like the tail end of this season, unbelievable performance. Yeah. Let's get right into our coverage of the episode. So we're going to start with something that we've started doing called Housewives in a hurry. And the idea is you've got 20 seconds to just,

spit out the most memorable things that you remember from the episode. So we're covering the Real Housewives of Salt Lake City season four finale. So I'm going to start the timer and you can just dump your brain right now. Okay. Well, first of all, we have the fallout from Heather and Whitney screaming at each other in the parking lot. We go right into them resolving absolutely nothing when they talk to each other. in the bedroom. And then we got scooters.

Who doesn't love a scooter trip on a beautiful day? Is that the end? That's the whole episode. Nothing else happened to the episode. I think I got the first four minutes out. Yeah. Yeah, it was a very dense episode. So, and 20 seconds is not a lot of time.

Are there, like, key things that you want to mention off the clock? Well, I think my favorite scene so far has been, it was basically on this episode, it was a flashback to last episode where Whitney and Heather are screaming at each other. That's where the quote comes from. You've exploited my vagina for your book. My favorite part about that episode is if you watch it or that scene is if you watch it, they're in the parking lot screaming at each other at full volume walking. the vans they came in. If you watch the guy driving the van, he doesn't even look up from his phone. He's all doing on the front of him. He's like texting his wife. He's like,

yeah, it's probably going to be like after 1230. I don't know. Does not even noteworthy after everything he's seen and been through. That was just, uh, but then yet the fallout from that was it,

it reminded me a lot of when my sisters settle a beef because they came in and they really both tried to hear each other while also not listening at all. Both of them felt like they were waiting for the other one to stop talking so that they could say their thing. And then at the end, in perfect, perfect fashion, Whitney, there's no apologies. There's no apologies from either of them. And then Heather goes, oh yeah we're good you never have bad timing you never have bad time which is just like all right forget the issue we're going to nitpick at whatever and when uh was it whitney leaves the room you can tell by the look on both of their faces that nothing has been solved this has been

just a they're placating each other and uh very juicy from it was settled just enough to like be put away because there are like bigger fish to fry today. And I do find it really interesting that you're keying in on the dynamic between Heather and Whitney as being one of the most memorable things here because I feel like there was a huge bombshell that was dropped at the end of this episode that was like it, it rocked the world. It like it shook the Bravo universe. Yeah. This is like when when the episode started and they had the almost like Tarantino-esque

flash to the end at the start of it. As someone who doesn't watch this show regularly, I was sitting there at the edge of my seat going, oh my God, there's been like a horrible crime committed. They must be talking about a murder or something because of the Game of Thrones music that's playing. And then very quickly after that,

I'm like, oh, no, they're talking about like brunch dates and stuff. This isn't someone's getting thrown in jail. This is someone isn't invited to brunch. anymore. So were there any themes or like literary or cinematic devices that you picked out

while watching these episodes that you think were notable? I'll go first. The sound engineer on this show should be making $14 million an episode because it's not just the Game of Thrones music to build tension.

it's not just the like there's a part at the end where Heather is listing off the things that have been done and there's she's clapping her hands and there is a literal gunshot sound effect just perfect but also in the final scene where they're all screaming at each other I know they're all they all have laugh mics on I know how hard it is to adjust the like so you can hear one of them but not the other one. The way they balanced the high-pitched shrieks that were going at the end. So, like, to keep all those microphones from spiking is, like, there's an Academy Award in it for this person. As far as I'm concerned.

Oh, yeah, totally. And this is not, like, a cheap show to make. Like, they've got the best of the best people on, like you said, the editing and the sound design, because so much storytelling happens in the edit and so much happens in, like, the producer. So you need to make sure you've got like sufficient coverage. And the way that this was shot was incredible, in my opinion. Like I feel like that scene that we got down at the beach was incredible, the amount of coverage that they had on it because they had, you know,

three or four different cameras just covering it right down there on the location. But then they also had a drone that was flying around getting these like big sweeping, establishing shots where you could see this like, Coven of Witches on on the beach with this like big Villa looming over the scene and I thought that- As the wind picks up and the storm starts blowing in. Yeah, exactly. The pathetic fallacy in this episode is incredible.

Like at the dinner as well, the way the like the wind is this like sweeping turbulent force through this conflict was was unbelievable. I loved it. Yeah. The way that the wind starts like blowing all. the woman's hair and dresses more and more, except for Monica, who bundles herself up. They cut to her and they're like, she's the evil one. And she's literally in like a black cloak.

It's so opera. It's absolutely emperor. It's a moment from Verdi. It's absolutely opera. It's incredible. Yeah, I thought like, so I just watched Saltburn over the weekend and I can't help but draw like parallels between that. film and this. And I didn't particularly like Saltburn, to be honest, but the themes of like obsession and class divide that are in both of those and just the way that you see all of these these storylines get weaved into this web that gets tied up at the end. I couldn't help but draw that comparison. There's less like grave, grave scenes where there's,

you know, fornication with a grave, but, um, you know, the, there are salt burn about. I saw,

I saw the trailer for it. It's about fucking grave. All right. Well, then it was nice to talk to you. I've got more important things to get to. Um, yeah, any,

any other themes or devices that anyone wants to call up before we get into our highlights? Well, I was just going to say it, uh, it was really, I mean, a lot of these shows episodes are well put together.

as far as storyline, but sometimes they're working with a lot less. So this was just, they had so much to work with. Heather did her whole schick of like building the mystery and sort of these misdirection kind of techniques where you have this credit card scene. It's like what's happening there is that important. And then when the, you know, when the final dinner happens and before we get the flashback to the coven on the beach, which I agree is like was stunning. We like, they're all going around talking about like mysteries about other people. So it's kind of like, well, where is this going to go? And then Heather completely just says, screw my doll game. I'm going to, I'm going to talk about Monica. But even before that, someone was talking about Meredith. And there was this whole conversation about

how we believe Monica over Meredith. And it was phrased really interestingly because they were saying, yes, we all believed Monica. We all believe what she said. And it was like this past present tense. Because I'm like, well, like, in one minute you're going to reveal that you don't believe her anymore. So it was just kind of interesting how that all built up and I thought it was very fun. Yeah, the misdirection was really powerful there. And you've got to figure that final scene where the confrontation happens and everything's laid out on the table, you got to figure there was enough there to fill the entire episode. But they were good enough at making sure that that was the climax instead of the entire thing. Because it did build.

And I know like after seeing the whole episode, you see. how, you know, when they flash back two hours earlier and she's talking and she's saying, this is what I found out. I want you all to back me up. Something hilarious to me was they went to that dinner. That's clearly the most important thing. That's clearly the thing they need to talk about. But they still were like, all right, you two have something to solve.

And you two, like they, it was almost like a few jab punches before they landed the entire thing, which makes me wonder, like when, again, I'm awful with the names here. when what's her name and what's her name we're fighting about like I didn't feel like you backed me up at dinner was that just something that they're like all right let's just bounce this back and forth a little bit

so that everyone gets comfortable for when this bombshell dropped or were they actually like yeah you we've got this whole secret to deal with but also my thing is important too like I wonder if it was purposely done set up that way by the producers or by themselves or if that's just the way

it goes when they have these dinners together. Yeah, I mean, I feel like this was Meredith, like, looking for something to make it seem like it's less of a direct allute for Heather. Well, and also, I mean, whether, whatever situation they're dealing with, whenever it's not about them, everybody tries to make it about them. So it might have been just something being like, listen, I'm not going to say anything for the next little while, so I'm going to get some stuff in right here. Yeah, totally.

Let's get into our highlights then. Andy, what were your highlights from this episode? Well, one of the part that made me laugh hysterically is when they're all screaming at each other at the end. And there was a point where the evil one, the one who was Baroness von T's or whatever. Monica. Whoever was the gossip girl of the episode. Yeah, Monica, she stands up and there's a point where it gets very heated and it almost feels like they're going to be starting to throw dishes at each other or it's going to get violent. And you see in the background two like headset clipboard people come running through the door in the background and then everything kind of calms

down a little bit and then they run right back through the door. It's like, they were like, oh my God, they're going to fight. And then, no, no, they won't. No, no, they won't. Don't interrupt. Just watching them do like the little foot squiggles and run back through the door. I noticed that in the background. It was very like almost Hannah Barbera. Like it was like something out of a cartoon.

That and when Heather is at the dinner, she's going to start her big speech about how Monica has been this evil secret account person. And you could tell this is like a big thing. She's been leading up to it. She's gotten people to agree to back her up on it. But when the time comes, she's so like flustered that she can't get the speech out. Like she makes a full meal of it. It feels like it takes her five minutes to actually make the reveal because I have

something to say and it is important. And I've found this. And you can tell it's like when someone starts a sentence that doesn't know where it's going to finish. Yeah. She really just, there is one point where she gives like eight examples of the same thing. Like you have used these things to expose and tell people and make sure everybody knows.

And I'm like, just do it. Just drop the hammer. Heather. Just drop the hammer. And then she finally does. And it's big. But it's you could tell. She made sure she got a lot of screen time for that, as she should.

Yeah. Yeah. It is also funny how, like Sadie already mentioned, Heather is the one who made the game. And then when it gets to her, she's like, screw the game. I'm just going to add something. Why didn't you set it up then? Why don't you give yourself Monica's doll? Because didn't she like give, I didn't put understand who had what doll or how that worked, but anyways, whatever.

Creepy dolls can't hurt the vibe of this whole episode. For sure. Yeah. And it was a little bit like they're talking about how they, she's set up Jen Shaw, which is something I, if I hadn't watched that, um, real housewives, uh, ultimate girls trip episode, I would have known nothing about that. So just having that little tidbit made it that more, otherwise I would have been sitting there going, well, who is Jen Shaw? I don't know anybody. But yeah, so it was, it did tie in with other things that I had seen, which I thought was very

interesting. Yeah, this is one of the things about, you know, reality TV and watching these long running shows like Real Housewives because all of the storylines that came out, they weren't necessarily from this season that Monica was tied to. We got the stuff with Jen Shaw and we got a return of the storyline about the shoplifting from Meredith's and the fact that Monica was there and we had the security footage and it's like, oh, she's been there all along. It was amazing. It was very, very usual suspects ending.

when this all came together. And the denial, the denial right to the bitter end, right until you're absolutely 100% trapped. I'll deny, deny, deny. Okay, well, then it actually is true. I thought it was fascinating watching Monica in that moment. It seemed, you know, like I'm interested in chatting about what is genuine about Monica, but like that moment seemed genuine as far as she had to figure, she, as she said, like, she knew it would come out at some point, but she didn't know what would come on necessarily at, like, that moment. And, we were kind of watching her brain tick away at figuring how she was going to do this. And as soon as this,

as soon as they started talking, her eyes went dark. And we just saw her like born as a villain rising up. And as they said in this cloak. And it was so beautiful to watch. So epic. And, you know,

she was like, absolutely not. Then she was like, okay. And you could just see her working through what she needed to do. So I think that was really fascinating. It reminded me that if you've ever seen that Matt Damon movie, the informant where he plays this compulsive liar who's actually telling the truth, but he's lied

so many times that it's a lot. It was kind of like that where he just finally runs out of lies and is forced to do nothing but tell the truth and to watch her sit there. And like you said, she's sitting there trying to figure out a way out of it. And when she sees that there isn't one, she completely switches her attitude and just owns it. And it's, yes, she is this villain. She is the villain that we have come to realize. And she played it perfectly like a villain. The black cloak definitely did her some favors in that. Yeah. I love that we got her like cloaked. And, you know, she had this moment where, um, she finally does a little bit of a reveal where she's like, that's not entirely true. And everyone's like, oh my God, what does that mean? What does that mean,

Monica? Like, then she just claims the stage for herself by. say by saying that, you know? Yeah. And she like literally like takes like the hood off to unveil herself as the real villain all along. It's so amazing. I thought she did a great job just like owning this moment and taking this moment from Heather. And she doesn't do a great job of, you know, handling the barrage of attacks that are coming at her afterwards. But I think she does as good a job as you, could do in that situation, especially as like a first season housewife. Like she, this is her first season on the show. She does not have all the tools in her tool belt that the rest of these women have.

So like to come on as a rookie and like all that she could do in the end is kind of walk away. And I thought that we got like a brilliant shot of her like crossing the line of cameras. Like as the fourth wall like is the last thing to break in this. this episode. The lonely walk across the yard. Yeah. She crosses that like physical line of cameras that are all like covering this. There's like enough cameras to do one of those like matrix bullet time shots.

They've got so many guys in on. And she crosses that line like effortlessly and, you know, the fourth wall is gone. And then we get all we get the epilogue with the all the follow up cards or whatever. I just, yeah. I think that the way that. this scene was constructed. It was amazing. Wouldn't it be great if while they were all shouting insults at her,

if they did do one of those bullet time where she's standing there in her robe and just dodging. No, you're a bitch. No, you're a scoundrel. Yeah, absolutely.

It is interesting, like you saying she's a rookie. I would have not guessed that. Like, she seemed just as, like there's a line before where she's talking about how she's, Yeah, she's making me the bitch, so I'm going to turn it on her and make her the bitch. It seemed like I would have guessed she was there since day one.

Yeah, this is a new like gold standard for a rookie season for a hostwife, in my opinion. Other housewives have come on and had really strong rookie seasons. Like we just watched Danielle on New Jersey have a pretty strong rookie season, in my opinion. Megan King Edmonds is another one that comes to mind as having like a really strong rookie season. but the way that she took control of the narrative from production and from the other housewives and still gave us a multi-dimensional character, I thought was particularly interesting. Because, you know, with Megan King Edmund's season on Real Housewives of Orange County, it's a great story. She comes on, she's this detective that, like, susses out Brooks and his fake cancer.

scam or whatever and she's able to like expose him and it's a great story i think if you take yourself out of viewing it as storytelling you can call into question like how much of that is like production kind of feeding her stuff and uh how much of it is truly her doing the legwork and how much is you know production steering the ship um you could say similar things about this this big reveal with Monica in the end. Like how much of that was, you know, withheld and production knew and disclosed to Heather at the right timing.

Like, I'm fine with suspending whatever disbelief I need to in order to enjoy these shows and just accept that as like part of the game. But what Monica, I think, brought on top of all of that is we got a really fleshed out character in the rest of the season surrounding that. Like, we got to see her dealing with this like class divide. We got to see this complex relationship she's got with her,

her mother. We got like authentic emotion surrounding how she like handled, you know, spending more money than was responsible to do so in order to get a person or to fit in. And we got to see this dynamic between, you know, a multi-generational dynamic between her and her grandmother and her mother. and I just thought that it was such a, she's such a full character that even if we didn't have this big Kaiser Soze reveal at the end, it still would have been a fantastic first season.

Not like a record breaking like rookie season for a housewife, but this is the cherry on top of like a really strong just general housewife performance. And yeah, I think she's a star. Yeah, those are about my thoughts too. And I, like you, I've thought Monica has been the best part about this season. This season has a lot of great moving parts. It was a really good season. But Monica was my favorite part because she came in as someone who is so coded as an outsider. And the fact that we got all this character development, like you said, before we get the reveal, before we find out this, you know, this other information about her, that we get the reveal armed with all that information about her character is,

amazing. And she's been coded as an outsider for throughout the whole thing as somebody who's like tangentially related to the friend group, not really in the friend group, and somebody who's from a lower class background who doesn't have as much money as them and who

has insecurities and maybe resentments about that. And I like that we kind of get a bit of foreshadowing in a way in the episode before this when Monica gets really angry when she sees after Meredith and and Lisa kind of explode.

And then she sees them just kind of hanging out in the back of the bat and being like, oh, you know, my son says that I should talk to you and all that. And she's, she's angry about this because she's like, you know, you're supposed to be angry at each other. Why are you like just like, like, you know, falling back into formation again? And she's really kind of confused and piqued by the fact that they are a group of friends who just kind of reseal together. And Monica sees herself as playing for real.

Well, they're kind of just playing. and Heather, you know, has a light at the end, which he's trying to, like, reclaimed the stage and, you know, take control as being the one who has the big revelation, who won the season. And she says, there's something that you missed. We are friends. And that's kind of, that's not what Monica missed.

That's, like, the whole point of the thing is that Monica has been an outsider all long and has been acting as an outsider and has been playing more hardball than they are because she's an outsider. and she sees this as like having realer stakes than they do in a certain way. Yeah, she's hungry. She's hungry, sure. Yeah. And then Heather, like when Heather starts talking about how she suffered so much like

mistreatment from Jen Shaw, including, of course, the fact that she got punched in the face, which I don't think was a surprise to anybody, right? Like, you know, she never came up with a cover story. She was just like, um, I forgot how it happened. I don't know. One of the worst lies ever told, even on this show, is I don't know. Yeah, she couldn't think of anything. She was just like, pass.

But then she's like, oh, I went through all this of you that Jen's heads. I'm not going to do it again. There's another way to read that. And that's that like Jen was one of your friends, that Jen was somebody who was an insider, Jen was somebody who was wealthy and powerful in your group. That's why you put up with someone. much shit from her. Yeah.

And that's what Monica doesn't have. And that's why you're not going to put up with anything that, that, that, Monica does because she's not an insider. And that's, and that's a big part of Monica's motivation too, obviously,

is that she feels like such an outsider. And they, and they really, when we see them assemble on the beach, that's such a moment of them being like, you know, we put our petty squabbles aside. We assemble as a unit,

because we are the insiders. And again, as we've talked about, the cinematics of that is so great. And the fact that you have that little bit of reality horror with like the handheld cameras, like the found footage kind of thing. When Heather is getting the phone call and the producers realize they have to pick up the cameras that rush in. You know, I love the way that found footage aesthetics transmit that idea of like an intrusion of the traumatic reel. and then you have that happen and then have them reform as a group with very polished cinematic aesthetics. That's like such a like forcing to heal kind of visual that we get.

Yeah. And it just works out. It just all works out beautifully. Well, and also a great layer for the story that's kind of like a background storyline is the hairdresser betrays Monica's trust and is like, yeah, I'm going to dump all this info. So it makes me wonder what happened between Monica and the hairdresser where all of a sudden she's getting snitched on.

And also like that on next season. Yeah. Yeah. But Tanisha also betrayed Heather, who they were allegedly friends and like had this at least business relationship. And she was actually just, I guess, getting Intel this whole time. So Tanisha deserves to know. Yeah. And it made it made me think that whoever this Tanish is, I don't know if she's,

showed up on other episodes or not. But if she's a hairdresser and it's now public knowledge that she has not only gathered information on Heather and reported it back to an enemy, a friend enemy or whatever, but also she was in cahoots with Monica and betrayed her as well. So I'm like, she's going to lose all of her business because if you can't trust your hairdresser to keep her mouse shut. You're finding a new hairdresser. I mean, who doesn't gossip to their hairdresser? That's supposed to be a vault. That's supposed to be like going to confession. And now she can't be trusted. And I hope she's got a backup plan. I am getting her to do my curls. I don't trust anyone with my secrets. Andy, did you have any other highlights from this episode? I did like their

reveal it was almost like a bonus little reveal about yeah that this is where I got the black eye from because that was another thing that was brought up during that uh real housewives ultimate girls trip episode that I watched that was something where I was like oh okay that's that thing that I remember that didn't really have any kind of conclusion or closure to it because like you said it was like oh I got this black eye but I don't remember how it happened well here we go it's finally question answer that's why I feel like I got the perfect two episodes. If I'm only going to watch two episodes, I feel like these ones paired up nicely.

Yeah, I was glad, glad to give you some, like, closure on your ultimate girl. Yeah, because I was waking up at night in a cold sweat. Thinking someone punched my baby girl. There's that, that's Heather. That's my favorite. Someone has assaulted. Let's talk about this, this black eye, though. Like, so you guys, do you guys believe that it was Jen Shaw?

Or do you think that it's just a safe, safe, safe. for Heather to now say that and like that's where she's going to get the most impact out of this black eye that she's been keeping in her back pocket. I never believed it wasn't Jen Shaw for a second. Oh, yeah? Yeah, I thought it was just like an infection or something like that, to be honest. I bet it's like Jen Shaw like accidentally bumped into her when they were so drunk and she, like, I feel like it's going to be something like it's Jen Shaw. So she's, she's playing that up. But it's not like Jen Shaw just like beat her down out of the blue or something.

That's my guess. I don't know. Yeah, I'd be more likely to believe something like that, Sandy. Like, if it is Jen Shaw, it was some sort of, like, stupid accident. Because I don't think that Heather is the type of hostwife that is careful enough with information in order to play it this way. I think that just happened by accident. Like, the fact that she was able, that this became this big secret that she was able to keep in her back pocket until it was a very, impactful time to say that. I feel like she would have seen, okay, this is obviously going to be

Jen Shaw's last season on the show because she's going to jail for seven years. So I got to get this out there and use it while it's still like currency that's valued. But she saved it and was able to reveal at this like moment that had a bigger impact than it would have if she were to rush it out and just try to make something happen when when it first happened. Jen Shaw has spoken out from prison saying that she did not bunch other, apparently, on her Instagram. Okay. There's a quote on her Instagram stories from prison. Is she allowed to be posting on Instagram from prison?

She may have phoned it in or prison emailed it to someone and passed it on. Yeah, there's the Instagram hotline you can call up and just recite your post word by word. I like to picture her inner cell, but she's got like an iPhone. phone six and the screen is just cracked to shit because it's been used for like drug deals and shit. Yeah. She's like somebody smuggled it in their asshole and she's like, yes, I got my face. Sandy, what were your highlights?

So I have to come back to the beach scene that we discussed a bit. It was so beautiful. As you said, Craig, Coven of Witches. they looked gorgeous, the wind, their dresses blowing around, their performance, the lighting or the filter or whatever they did there to make it look dark. It was Shakespearean. It felt like Macbeth or the Tempest. It just gave me everything I ever wanted. Like it kind of combined, fully merged my two passions of history and housewife because it was just so poetic and so classic and it really like it was just so great and they were like learning about this betrayal of

like one of their owner their little protege and this oh and they kept using words like anguish and or just maybe that was just on their faces and I internalized it because it was so good anyway so that was my absolute favorite scene of Real Housewives of all time or Bravo of all time I think because it was just so beautiful um yeah it was you almost expected like a game of thrones dragon to fly through this guy in the background. Like, it was just so huge. Yeah, I was watching that scene like Diego Calva at the end of Babylon, just like, you guys haven't seen Babylon.

I could tell from your reactions. Anyways, it was great. I was literally like, I'll just keep smiling. That's always the safe way to go with these references. I don't know. I won't move my face at all. Craig got the same reaction with a sulfur and drop a minute ago. Yeah.

this is the only pop culture I consume everyone so that's that's it for me saltburn was like the number one streaming show on Netflix last weekend or something like that so I thought that maybe someone had never heard of it but yeah don't honestly like don't really bother I won't turn this into a saltburn way a bit late for that right I'm kind of intrigued now you you kind of you brought it up as if it were significant culturally and now you're saying no and there's something about grave sex or whatever like sounds all good yeah no we'll go what's up it's a pass it's a pass um Dylan what what were your highlights um I mean we we pretty much covered it I do like it's just so amazing that that Monica ends up being like a cuckoo at the end just having you know it's it's

they're there for a birthday too that's the other thing that's so great yeah that's That's so amazing. She has to leave. They're like, pack up and go. She doesn't even get a piece of cake. And I want to know, like, beyond the fact that it made for amazing television, how much sympathy do you guys have for Monica's perspective? Yeah, that's what I'm interested in, too, because it's like, as Craig said,

she does still feel really real and really messed up. Obviously, we know from her, like, childhood and her mother that that's genuine. as you said like it she really does want to fit in but yet she also infiltrated this show probably like selling herself as reality von t's and that is epic and that is amazing and so that dual thing that that you described Craig is was so good so I I kind of do have sympathy for her because she's always kind of owning what she's done and she just keeps doing kind of shitty things and then always now she is right well well that's that's That's true.

Once they're revealed. She had a secret identity the whole time. Once they're not secret anymore, whatever. Yeah. Yeah. The master stroke at the end when they're doing like after they've showed the women crying and hugging and all that stuff and they cut to her like her one-on-one interview and she's sitting there going like there's more to this story and you're definitely going to want to hear it. That's just it's perfect cliffhanger. You think we're done with this person.

But oh, no. The killer rises one more. time and takes a final slash. Yeah. And yeah, it was perfect. And also her ability when she does finally say, okay, maybe it was me, but also you had and her bringing up, you know, the, the DMs where people are liking and laughing at the posts about the other women and everybody, nobody has their hands clean in this situation. Everybody was part of it in one way or another. Yeah. Yeah, totally. When she said, like you guys were my biggest fans or whatever when she says that in the confessional.

Like I fully believe that. Oh, 100%. Yeah. And that's what's great about it too, is that it makes, and I think this is part of the reason why the other girls are so, like, feel so mortified and betrayed and anguished about this is that it makes this very awkward intrusion of like the mixing the world of the fans with the world of the show. And they seem really to be trying. to reaffirm the idea that the show is their world. It is their group of friends. They can re-strengthen the ties between them as friends.

They are insiders, and this is the show is about our group of friends. But then the other perspective is that the show is about the viewers, and it's a world being played for the viewers. And Monica suddenly reveals herself as this kind of awkward bridge between the two worlds. Right. This is their voice that's being co-opted. That brings up a question that I wanted to post to you guys. Like, do you think that this is setting a bad precedent in terms of how fans are engaging with the content?

Because I think we've seen just how annoying the Bravo community can be when they get a microphone. Yeah. Speaking of like both BravoCon and our podcast. Oh, yeah. You know, we see clips of like people going to BravoCon and like during the Q&A using it to like try to. to roast and get their moment. And it's just like, it's pretty annoying to watch. Do you think that this sets a bad precedent for the fan community trying to get on these shows?

Like copycat crime kind of thing. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Will we get a Monica copycat? Oh, I could see it. I'm surprised there aren't, you know, 15 reality vaunties or whatever. Like, this is the first I had heard about that account. obviously not following the show, but I kind of had this thought of like, there was only one.

There was only one troll account. It feels like there should be 20 of these, shouldn't there? Yeah, true. It's a good question. The editors knew. So, I mean, obviously they're not going to be looking to do this. I have to assume they're not going to be looking to do this over and over. And I imagine they're pretty picky with who they choose.

So I feel like we're not in too much threat of these people infiltrating left and right. Because the editors are going to be, or the producers, I should say, are going to be aware of probably that concern. I think that this is the second time in a year, though, right? Because Rachel Fuda had a like Bravo fan account prior to this. And they tried to make that into a moment on New Jersey and it fell really flat. They did. It obviously didn't have the same impact. Do we remember that?

It was brought up. She's like Bravo lover 1, 2, 3 or something was her. In the reunion, I think Jen Aiden brought it up that she discovered her Bravo found account. Okay, well then. I don't know. I didn't even remember that and I watched the whole season. Yeah. Well, that's how flat it must have fallen.

Yeah, exactly. It wasn't a big thing really at all. Yeah. But I think it's also going to be harder, it's going to be hard to do too just because there's like the people who are going to be applying for the shows are going to be generally people who are already interested in the show. So it must be very hard to tease out. I think if they tried to like recreate this, you know, they tried to re-engineer similar finalities in other shows.

It could get like really awkward entire similar really quick. I don't think that the energy of this could be like like recreated. Yeah. And yeah, I wouldn't. Certainly not to see more of this. I would not like to see more of this. Right. But I'm happy it happened.

I don't want it to be like something that happens again. Yeah, totally. Because it wouldn't work as well. Any other highlights, you guys? I had one thing that I thought was kind of interesting. They seemed to take a different tonal approach to the exit blurb things at the end when they sum up what people are doing now. Usually it's like clips of them laughing and smiling and kind of and then they freeze your thing. And this time, most of a good chunk of them were just like them very awkwardly and solemnly, like kind of staring into the camera out into space.

I don't know if anyone noticed that. It wasn't all of them, but Lisa with her son, now that just had been the awkwardness of her spending time with her son, but they both were just like. And then it was just Henry being like, he's a kid. But and then, and then Angie with her husband with those glasses of champagne in her lingerie. And she was just like staring at us saying like, they're rekindling their marriage was brutal. And then Monica at the end was a little different, but she's in her confessional. And it's when she says, well, she has her blurb, but she's just like live sitting there. It's not a photo.

So I just thought that was interesting and seemed to be a deliberate choice because I've never seen that before. I don't know. Maybe they're trying to communicate the idea that they're still shell-shocked. Yeah. Yeah. The vibe. Yeah, I think it would have been like- It would truly be the way it was before. It would have been pretty like jarring tonally for it to do anything more dynamic. But yeah, I did also notice that it was a stark difference from what we normally see.

But yeah, I think that they did what they could with what they had to work with. They needed to carry on the tone for the epilogue. So I think it was, it was fine. You're right, it was like, there were some, like, pretty awkward moments, especially, like, Angie stiffly there and her lingerie. Slightly. We didn't get a lot of Angie in this episode. This is one thing that I just thought was notable. we did see her at the beginning just like she was so out to lunch in terms of the tone of what had come before it and just being like oh let's have a fun day going shopping and and then at the end she was left out of the group that was had the inside knowledge on on monica and and what was going to go down i really love that when we do see her finally chime in the first shot that we get of her is just her like saying something but it's just

one long censored beep. It's like, just the entire, the entire time that she's on camera. So, but yeah, I was a little bit disappointed in her performance at this dinner because she got up. It seemed like she was going to throw a centerpiece, which is such a unique spin on the glass throwing. And then she put it down. I was disappointed because the, like, the Angie that was in Palm Springs and made her own t-shirt would have throwing that centerpiece.

Well, she knows what did you guys think? Yeah. She could get kicked off the show for that and she doesn't want that, right? Like, they're coming down harder

on the violent stuff now, I think. And I think she's too scared to rock the boat. Do you guys think she's a... Center piece could be dangerous. Yeah. You don't know what the, like,

bottom is of it. It has to be weighed down from the wind. Like, it could be a bolder. Yeah, true. Yeah. Yeah, I didn't think about that. Is she a good character? Like, is she,

I kind of could, I don't know. I'm asking, I haven't thought about it. Is she helping the show? I thought like the beginning of the season, I really thought she was a great addition, but kind of like petered out at the end, I don't know. She should have thrown it across the yard instead of at something. Because once you pick that thing up, you can't put it down without looking like you're scared to throw it.

And when she slammed it down on the table, I think Monica says something like that was pathetic. And she's 100% right. Yeah, like, yeah, you can't throw it at somebody, but you got to throw that thing. She should have done something. She should have done like a discus throw. Yes. Because that's what you're doing.

Yes. Yes. Perfect. No, you're totally right. That was not a great moment for her. The, uh, the old Greek beard just ain't what she used to be. Yeah. That was another thing I saw from the previous episode where someone accused her of being in the Greek

mafia. and much the same way that I have the same feelings about Whitney when she's upset about what parts were used in Heather's book is you can tell in both cases she gets accused of being in the Greek mafia and she acts mad about it. You can tell she loves the fact that people think she's in the Greek mafia. She's very offended on paper, but you can tell she's like, oh my God, what juicy gossip about me. The same way that Whitney is when she's talking in the hotel room to Heather about, I didn't appreciate what you put in her book. You can tell by the way she's talking. As she's telling Heather why she was offended by it,

she's searching for a reason to be offended by it. Like she's looking for something. She loves the fact that she's in her book. She loves the fact that she gets to talk about this. And it's, this is that reality von T's account. It doesn't surprise. me that everyone was liking

this stuff about the other women because whether the reality Von T's is an outsider or an insider doing the exact same thing that all of them do which is talking shit behind other people's

backs. That seems to be a constant theme is as soon as two of them are in a room and the third one isn't everybody's talking about the third one and I think part of that the reason why they all hated that account was because it was doing this thing that they all do to them. And part of them, the same reason why they love the account is because this account was doing the same thing

that they all do. Yeah. Yeah. They just have a pact with the insiders in the same friend group and the same social economic class that they can do that. Yeah. And regel. It's almost like when people who aren't from Winnipeg, trash Winnipeg, it's like, well, you don't get to because you're not, you're not getting stabbed at the bus stop like we're getting stabbed at the bus stop. Oh, you got stabbed in the bus stop at Thunder Bay? Let me see those fucking pathetic Thunder Bay wounds. Nothing. What are you?

He was a toothache. Christ. So I want to do one thing before we finish up and pick our all-stars from this episode. A little segment called What's Weird. Just an opportunity. If anyone has something little that they saw that they thought was weird or, uh, raised an eyebrow that didn't warrant a full discussion in our highlight section. Dylan, we'll start with you.

Anything stand out to you? In a little montage at the end, you know, I haven't seen all of Salt Lake City, so there might be some things I missed. But did they ever address the fact that Meredith's husband, Seth, seems to be drunk in every single scene he's in? No. He seems always drunk to me. And so I was really delighted when we get the little scene of them in the hot time at the end.

And she cheers us in him, I mean, he's just got like a metal flask that he chairs her with. He's just drinking straight of a flask in the hot top. You know, presumably his own hot tub, but he's still got his little flask in there. So I just like that this guy seems to be like just secretly an alcoholic that's never addressed. Yeah, not so secret. It seems obvious. I agree.

Yeah. Andy, how about yourself? I loved the scene where they all go ride the scooters around town. because this was one of the very rare scenes where everything is great. Everybody has a great day on the scooters. I love the little interjection of reality where the one, I forget which one, but she can't really do it and she crashes into the van a little bit and stuff.

And the guy, like their scooter guide comes up to him. And it was like, you need to learn how to do this because their whole life is supposed to be this fantasy. Like they're at resorts. They're having these fancy dinners. and all this stuff. And then this guy comes in and goes,

yeah, you'll die if you don't do this problem. It was just a little splash of, oh, by the way, this is still the real world. That conversation was so funny because I seem to remember it being like, he'll be like, no, you have to do it different. And she's like, or what, I'll die. And he's like, yes, or you'll die. Yes, that is what will happen.

It's not a joke, actually. At the very least, you're going to ruin this dress and your hat's going to fly off. Yeah. But it was such a great, Like the scene, it was, I mean, I love on the show the optimism that these women have for the activities they're going to do. Every time they're getting ready, they're like, oh, it's going to be such a fun day when it's like, what would lead you to believe this isn't going to end in screaming? Like at all, anytime they get on a boat, I'm like, don't get on that boat.

We know what happens on this boat. You're going to lose your floppy hat or something. Shoes. Someone's shoes are going to get, yeah, thrown in the lake. But, yeah, this was one time where they go out. they have this activity and everything's great. And I was sitting there as a viewer going, oh, maybe they are capable of just having a nice day.

And this is, this was so pleasant. And then immediately at the end of that, it cuts to doodum and the doom and gloom comes right back in perfect storytelling fashion. Totally. Sandy, how about yourself? I thought it was a little weird that we see Whitney allegedly waking up a little

rough from the night before hiding from the sun and then she reveals a full face of glam uh yeah it's funny because she had sunglasses on she's like oh she had their sunglasses on because her eyes look bad that's fair then she takes them off and it's totally done it's like what there was a there was this there was an episode i mean obviously they she doesn't see these episodes but there was an episode recently i don't know if was on this trip where she she was looking really rough either late at night or in the morning. So maybe she was like, never again will I show my morning face?

But yeah. So my weird little standout was a turn of phrase that Whitney used called. She said something about from the belly button to the butthole as like describing a region of her body. Has she been a butcher before? When would you use that? The belly button to the butthole, we're talking about 15% of your body here. That's not head to toe. That's middle to middle.

Yeah, just really love that. And the, like, the contrast of what Heather thought that conversation was about, like, versus what Whitney thought it was about. Heather was like, oh, she took issue with this, like, Titanic reference. And Whitney's like, no, your character. characterizing me as someone that like is super down to get photographed from the belly button to the butt hole just like really like at odds with with each other in terms of how they viewed that that argument but that turn of phrase really stood out to me yeah and she was upset about the titanic reference until it got put in front of her and she well oh no that's not what i'm upset about it's upset about

the idea that i would do that's what i mean when she was she was kind of grasping at why she was upset about this thing that she knew was in the book before it got posted. Also, Heather was like, I read it to you. And she's like, yeah, but I hadn't read it myself. It's like, yeah. So. Yeah, you're grasping. She's grasping. It's the same sentences. Yeah. I love the, the reaction to the phrase belly button to butthole because you see Heather, it goes close up on her face and she goes, I didn't use the phrase butthole, which the way she said it to me, Redis, she almost used the phrase. phrase butthole and then it got edited out. Like she was, you could tell, she was like, I was very careful to not use the word

butthole. Yeah. She's, I think she's specifically says, I would never use the word butthole. Like her, her pride is a writer as insulted. Like, I would not use that specific word. Because I'm sure she wrote this book. Right. Yeah.

Yeah. All by herself. There's another part of the episode where she yells at somebody. She's like, I am legitimately a New York Times bestselling author. And I'm like, the fact that she. gets to yell that at people is hilarious to me. That's an actual thing. She's not bullshit and New York Times bestseller. Just like the author of every other stunt book by a C-Less celebrity. They're all New York Times bestsellers. But what a feather in her cap at that table.

Yeah. Amazing. Awesome. So before we close things out, everyone has the opportunity to choose between one to three stars from this episode that they would draft to a fantasy team if they were given the opportunity. Andy, the outsider will start with you. Who are your stars? Are we talking about from the housewives? Are we talking like side characters or? Yeah, it could be whatever you want, really. Okay. Well, we didn't see many side characters. Like the guy who was the scooter guide got maybe four seconds of screen time. I did love the two. I'm going to call them set. people that ran through the door and then ran back. But I think my, it's got to be, if you're talking All-Star for the episode, I got to go Heather, because number one, she's my favorite. Number two,

she definitely did the most with what she had. Like she, like I said, when she had that big reveal, she made a meal out of it. She didn't just throw it out there. She made sure that she got on screen and got to got her point across the way she wanted to get it across. Dylan, how about yourself? I mean, obviously, dark queen of chaos, Monica has to be there. This was her episode. This is her year.

2024 is the year of Monica. And you have to have Heather, too, because she was also a huge part of this episode. And they're both stars. They both killed it. Great stuff. And I'll draft also the whoever realized they needed to grab a camera and start filming while Heather was taking the phone call.

that camera person gets on my team too. Yeah. And I love that moment with the producers where like someone is like knocking on the door, like trying to respect the privacy and another producer is like, just go in. Just go in. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

I love how they have broken that fourth wall. You're not contractually obliged to knock. Go. There was like, there was like something shifted a couple years ago. I think I think like something happened. I can't remember now. But they just they just knocked down the fourth wall overall and cameras are now part of it. And it's so much better.

it's so much more interesting to get glimpses of production. Yeah, totally. It's a device that they use on Bravo very sparingly and effectively. They pick their moments. They're not always doing it, but when they do it, they make sure that it has an impact. And I really love seeing this technique emerge. Sandy, what are your stars? Got to give it to Monica, one to Monica.

I'm going to give one star, or however we, phrase this. One of my stars is Meredith for her outstanding performance as part of the Coven because I think she went up and beyond with her facial expressions and her chiffon blowing and really like drove that home, that scene. And I don't know if I'm allowed to do. She always has for it. She always has the best enunciations of anybody too. That's also why she's a superstar. She's a Shakespearean player. She's ready to be on the stage.

If her face moved a little more maybe. but whatever. But she did pretty good, honestly. All things consider it. And my third one is, Star is the wind. Because what would this episode be without the Bermuda wind guys?

Like, honestly, imagine any of these scenes with no wind. Like, I don't know if we'd be as enraptured. Like, anywhere near as enraptured. So. It almost makes me wonder, like if there's a costume department that's telling them,

hey, everybody wear your breeziest dress today because this is going to be amazing. And no tech. Hey, buns. Maybe. No updews. Yeah. And Lisa Barlow, who refuses to take costume notes, did not respect that in that scene as well.

So that would track. But I did love her dress. I thought they all looked so good. I don't know. Like they all had different outfits on. They were all really colorful. I don't know. They were just so good.

Yeah. So my number one star has to be Monica. I think like this episode would not have happened the way it did without Monica. and second to that, I think Heather as well, just I think it wouldn't be the same episode without Heather being that person that was able to drum this up. How much of that was like production

and how much she could have been substituted out for someone like Whitney or anyone else on the cast is still a little up for debate to me, but it landed on her. And I think she did a good job of it. Yeah, those are the two stars. I think like one of the stars of this season for Salt Lake City for me is sunglasses. I think we have seen so many styles of sunglasses on this season that it just can't be ignored.

Any last thoughts before we close things out here? I've had a lot of fun on the podcast almost enough to forgive you for exploiting my vagina for your book. I hope you had fun as well. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for doing this. Andy, do you want to let everyone know where they can find you?

You can find me at Andy Noble Jokes on Instagram. That's kind of the only social media I have. And I don't know when this is coming out, but I'm headlining rumors comedy club January 30th and 31st. Oh, yeah. That's probably be up before then.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, we'll be out. It's Friday the 5th is when this is going to be released. So lots of time. Sandy, how about yourself? I am on Instagram at Corporial Curios. Right on. And Dylan?

You can find me on Substack, writing about movies. Just look for Dylan Ferguson. I have a few new things up there. I also have my list of my top 10 favorite films of 2023. I might have to edit that when I finally see Salt Burn because Craig won't shut the fuck up about it. But we'll see. I'm Craig Midwinter.

You can find me. on LinkedIn or GitHub. So really don't bother looking me up. But I'm on Instagram at Bravo Outsider. We're on YouTube, Bravo Outsider. We're on TikTok and Twitter. Just look it up. You'll find us.

Until next week, keep on wiping.