Oscars Outsider - When do pile-on seasons get boring? | Real Housewives of Salt Lake City S06E07 S06E08 Recap/Analysis

Episode Date: November 7, 2025

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Pile-on when they happen, it's fine. I think they're very exciting when we get big blow-ups like we're getting right now. It is leading to a really great TV right now, but it's not sustainable for the rest of the season. Like, we're going to get really tired of it being the everyone pile-on Lisa show. So we'll see how they're able to pivot out of this. The fact that they're what's playing in the favor of this particular. pile on is that it's not just one thing. It's not just like Lucy Lucy, Lucy, Apple Goosey or juicy or whatever it was where we had to hear about that like one thing over and over again.

The fact that there is a lot of dimension to this pile on, I think is what is making it kind of interesting. We have the initial, all the allegations against Lisa that were out there. That was like the first thing. And then it became the Lisa versus Angie show. where they were firing shots back and forth about, like, Lisa's, the products that Lisa's son had put out there. And, you know, they were trading spars there. And then now there's the stuff that's in the, in the press. And so I think the fact that this is multidimensional is working in its favor here. Unless there's like more skeletons in Lisa's closet that they want to drag out of there, I think that we're going to need to move on from that.

But that actually brings up a point that one of our commenters on YouTube brought up. I'm going to play a comment. All of the ladies seem so sure that Lisa does these backdoor investigations. I lean towards believing them just on the fact that Lisa did try to take down Mary in season two by meeting with that guy that was putting out all those claims about Mary, taking his money, etc. I think you have to have Cajonas to go against an established religious organization, and Lisa did it in season two, had a whole sit down with the man. I wonder if she would have continued

if the man didn't end up passing away. However, I think the audience will begin to defend Lisa if they don't show some tangible evidence because every episode is Lisa versus insert other cast member's name here. The gang up even if it is justified is starting to bore me because other than Angie,

I don't think the reads are that memorable to keep the audience entertained. Yeah, I mean, that's basically what Sandy just said, right? And I agree with that sentiment, but I also, let's not forget, we're just midway through the season, right? If it continues to be just this. Yeah, then that'll get really exhausting. But I assume that there will be other twists into the story. Already we see a little glimmer of Mary maybe starting to show some sympathy towards Lisa's side.

If that becomes anything, I don't know. But I assume that there will be other twists that maybe some people will take Lisa's side in whatever happens next, whatever revelations come out next. Otherwise, it will get exhausting. But I'm not at that point yet because I do appreciate having this kind of mid-season point, where it becomes such like a scorched earth, full on assault on one person, culminating in one indelible image of somebody being incredibly isolated and alone. A powerful figure on the show finding themselves with their back against the wall in this position of incredible solitude. I think that's a dramatic position for the show to find itself in midseason.

Now let's see where it goes from there. Yeah, totally. Because if we think about Lisa's overall arc, we have had her mostly at the top of her game throughout the entire history of this show. And then now we've witnessed a huge fall. I think to see Lisa rising is going to be really interesting. I feel like in my mind, the best way that this plays out is that Lisa kind of falls to the background for the rest of the season. I think she needs space before we're willing to see her rise up.

up again. So if she's able to just kind of sit in the background and just let something else take the front seat and it's no longer the everyone versus Lisa's show, that is going to be, that is going to be beneficial to her overall, her overall story. And then next season, I think we're going to be ready to see her rise from, from the ashes. And as she said when she, she woke up, look who's back from the dead. Like, I want to see Lisa back from the dead. And, like, I want to see Lisa back from the dead next season. I'm not ready for it this season. I think that it needs, it needs time to breathe before we see her rising again. Otherwise, it's going to feel like the stakes were meaningless. She's at the bottom. We need to see that be the end of her, you know, her voyage this, this season.

And let's see, let's see what's next. Hello and welcome to the Bravo Outsider Podcast. I'm your host, Craig Midwinter, joined as usual by Dylan Ferguson. And also today we've got Sandra Cloak. How are you guys doing today? Just fine. Just fine. Happy to be back.

Yes. Excited to be back. Yeah. So we were on a bit of a break last week. But we're going to be covering both of the below deck crossover episodes. And I thought that these were a lot of fun. What is one word that kind of stands out to you, Sandra, when you think. think about these episodes.

I mean, I can go with drama. It brought the drama, which is always appreciated with this, especially with this franchise. It did bring the drama for sure. Dylan, how about you? Let's go with friendship, but like with a hyphen in there. So it's like the friendship, you know, like they're all like on a, right, right guys? Yeah, yeah. But, you know, they feel like they're all stuck together on this one floating narrative device.

and you know who's in and who's out is is dramatized very satisfyingly on that. Yeah, I mean, fun was the word that came to mind for me. Just overwhelmingly, these were fun episodes for me to watch. But I do like the pickup on friendship because there's a lot of change within the friendship on this trip. and the dynamic is really interesting. I think like we see, especially in the first episode, some really interesting strategic things that are happening here that I can't wait to dive into.

But before we get into that, let's talk about our favorite scenes in terms of the narrative here. Sandra, did you want to lead us off? What was your favorite scene? There was two that stood out. The first lunch was a really great, setting of the tone of the narrative of these two episodes where Lisa sat down and of course it's always a discussion of did Lisa leak all these things and the newest Bronwyn things and Lisa just

jumped into a weird defense of herself that everyone commented very clearly on. I liked the vibe of the table. It was really tense. It reminded me of that game like werewolf for something you play as a kid where somebody's the murderer and you have to all pretend you're not. And like some people might be more skilled at that than others. And Lisa's like, I'm definitely not the werewolf and and everyone else is kind of sat there. And it really reminded me of sitting in a circle and like looking at everyone's faces and the strategy behind their, what their body language at that moment. So I really appreciate that scene for setting up that sort of complex maneuvering that we see playing out throughout the rest. And I also really loved,

I have to say to you, I'm sorry, uh, the scene shortly after that with Heather reclining on the bed, presiding over her room and just being the absolute boss of this friendship and having people do her bidding and setting that up for the rest of the show too because I thought that was super cinematic and intense and love to talk more about it. Yeah, totally. Heather is doing a ton here on this trip. I'm really loving what she is doing. And the scene that you brought up where they've got that initial lunch and, you know,

everyone is dancing around the idea of like did Lisa actually leak these it it kind of answers the question that we had posed in our last podcast episode about does Angie have a receipt and the answer is she doesn't need one because Lisa is just going to like give herself up and you know show that she is being, you know, conniving and really, you know, being a little bit, trying to play puppet master and like getting, getting caught. So yeah, that was, that was a great scene. How about, how about you, Dylan? What, what's it out to you? Really, that the same one, if we're talking about episode seven, I did really love that lunch scene for the same reason. You said, said, you just the tension in the room. I, but it was also really well edited. Like, I like when Lisa goes off at her.

her like, nobody here would do that, obviously. Obviously, nobody in this group would do that. There's a shot of Whitney and Angie both removing their sunglasses like at the same time. And like just like, just like staring at everybody like, all right, like who's going to, who's going to say something? Who's going to do it? Bronwyn doesn't seem to want to go directly into it. She's content just like sitting there. And it just eventually comes to a head when, when Heather, like you said, kind of who decides to take over the situation and decides to be.

be the baller, as Whitney calls her in the next episode. She just kind of says, well, fuck it. If nobody else is going to be the first person to break the ice and make the accusations, then I will both start and finish the accusing part of this scenario. So you clarified that that was your standout of episode seven. Is there like another one in episode eight that stood out to you? I mean, for me, these two episodes, they kind of blended together. I'm curious if that was like something that you guys agree with or is there a bit of a distinction here between the two?

I approached them as one. So I could not even tell you which was which at this point. Yeah, they do seem to have a kind of a hinge moment of of Lisa getting completely isolated. And then the next day where there's like the aftermath of that and seeing what the relationships are in the follow up. I guess I do think the most dramatic parts were in the first part. But then again, we get like, Bronwyn really explodes in episode A to the second part. So that was pretty good too.

Yeah, totally. I loved Bronwyn on this episode. I think that she's like, I mean, we've talked about how she is LeBronwin and a real standout. And like, she really came to play. She really like shows her adeptness at sparring in the second episode. But like she shows why she's such a good housewife in the first episode where she makes this big splash in terms of arriving, you know, a couple hours late.

And so she gets her own entrance to this trip. And, you know, she owns that moment by coming in like costume and raise like, there's all this talk. She gives the space for these women to start building up the, the tension for her arrival. because they're already dancing around all the discussion about her. And then when she's able to come on, she really takes hold of the episode or the following episode once she's there. And yeah, I think this is like fantastic. I love the treatment of her entrance.

Like just like seeing her come from the horizons speeding in on a tender. I just really, really love that. Yeah. In an outfit that is both very Bronwyn because it's clown-like. but also she's like dressed in life preservers. There seems to be a message of being like, I'm unsinkable by the way. Like nobody is has any ability to take me down.

And that kind of carries through to the second episode where like she does get a full apology from Lisa, right? Like Lisa gives her the full on I'm sorry, no reservations. And she just kind of looks at her and it's like, yep, okay. Like that that is a real flex that she follows through on the kind of unsinkable promise that her dramatic entrance foretells. I have to say, guys, that you're missing one important point. She already wore that outfit.

So this completely delegitimizes any of your points. And I'm not. I mean, that's the rules of fashion. You can't use one outfit for two big things. And she clearly used it on Instagram in 2023. So just had to throw that in there that all your points are completely invalid on that. You mean she's a rule breaker too. Cool.

I think like one of the things that we were talking about on the last episode or one of the questions that the last episode posed was like will Bronwyn show up on this trip. Like is it even a good idea for her to come on this trip? And she came in with that answer very strongly like yes, this is like what she needed to do. the fact that this was all contained in like tight quarters on on a ship i think really played into her advantage like it does feel like we have kind of hit the conclusion of this all these questions and this story about the like charges that are brought up against bron and i think the fact that the geography of the that we were confined to for this really played such a a large role in her ability to like really end this discussion and this is something that I think

that Lisa did not like did not play in her favor because she was not able to manage it in the same way and everyone was able to find various corners to hide in and so I mean we see that that you know disparity really evident when Bronwyn is sitting on the deck and she's reading while she can hear Lisa and Brittany talking shit about her. And then she's like, oh, I need to take this conversation that I need to have with you to a place where it is private. And so, yeah, I really think that Bronwyn did a great job of using the geography to her advantage here. Okay. So we talked about our favorite scenes.

Oh, okay. This is dramatic zoom in. Keep it in. I like it. I'm dying to find out what you're going to say next now. No, I was just going to, I was going to transition. But actually, one of the things that I picked up on when she was, when Bronwyn was sitting on the deck of the boat, she was reading a book.

And that's always something that, like, I'm interested to know, like, what people are reading or what they're consuming and how that, like, informs where they're at in their life. And she was reading a book, and I got it down in my notes here. The book that she was reading was called Mona Axe Out by Misha Berlinski, I believe. And this is a clip from the Amazon description of it. But guileingly approachable and intricately constructed, at once funny and sad and wise, Mona Axe Out is a novel about acting and telling the truth about how we play roles to get through our days

and how the great roles teach us how to live. And guys, if you use discount code Bravo Outsider when you're ordering a copy of MonaX out, you can get 15% off you. But I just really thought that this was an interesting choice for her to read, given that the themes that it's saying right on the description here are about putting on certain personas in order to navigate things and the importance of truth. And it just felt like it was something that would really resonate with, Bronwyn, the character that we get to see on the show right now in terms of, you know, she seems like she is a very different person when she is talking with Todd. So she's got Bronwyn the character within her relationship and her marriage. And then there's Bronwyn, the personality that we see within this group and the character

that she has to put on for the show. And this question of like about the importance of truth and how that relationship. to the persona that you have to embody, I thought was really interesting, given all the conflict that we have surrounding her. So I really like that specific choice in literature, that book that she's starting to read. And big thanks to Mike Green,

host of the Trash Talk podcast, for doing that read on that description for me. Okay, so we have talked about our favorite scene. Let's talk about the visual. in terms of the shot or the editing. What's it out to you here, Dylan? Okay, one of my favorite shots I've ever seen in probably any of these shows is the kind of hinge shot that we end season seven with.

You know where I'm talking about, right? You've got Lisa. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You've got Lisa sitting on the little floating dock out the back of the yacht at night with her back turned to the camera, just sort of rocking and bobbing on the edge, more or less centered in the frame with just, like a black night facing her.

Just enough light that you kind of get the bit of the blue eliminated. You see fish swimming through the water. Very kind of alien-like forms swarming around. Just a very dramatic, lonely composition of like somebody very isolated at the literal edge of the friendship. Just like right on the right on the end of the dock, just bobbing, staring out at black night and water. that shot made me sympathize with Lisa way more than anything Lisa ever says or does. Yeah. Did?

Like the beauty of the composition does so much more narratively than anything Lisa does to help herself in my eyes. So that's a great moment. And I love the contrast between that and if we return to the lunch conflict earlier, which happens during the day on a cloudy day, when Lisa is kind of just trapped, tensely within the friend group, just surrounded by friends, the background is all blown out white. Like the camera's just got like a blown out white everywhere. So I like that contrast of her being stuck between being trapped against this kind of very white space of just being surrounded by friends who are all kind of judging you versus being

trapped against just the black wall of solitude and loneliness. Yeah, I absolutely love that. I agree. That is like definitely my favorite shot of this. season so far. It is a highlight, real shot of the beauty within these shows. And, you know, there are so many layers of isolation within the way that this is shot. I mean, you, you touched on a lot of them, but like the fact that we've got her back facing the camera, facing us as the viewer, we can't see her face. We can't see her eyes. And she is like almost dead center in the frame.

she's got this like blue, this cold blue water surrounding her with, you know, fish that are swimming around almost like, it's almost like menacing and how it feels when we're looking at it, almost like there's sharks circling her. And then there's, yeah, just the black around her outside. And she's on this tiny little floating life raft. Like it's like she's like stranded. And yeah, it's just an absolutely. brilliant, beautiful shot. I love it so much. Yeah, fantastic, fantastic moment. Yeah, totally. Sandra, what about you? Do you have anything that stands up to you? Kind of on a different tone, but I appreciated Heather's talking head interview where she's like putting all the evidence

together against Lisa. And this ties into what I was talking about. I was really focused on Heather dominating these episodes and really taking control. And, um, I just thought it was fun. They had some nice dramatic music and it just reminded me of, you know, the classic, like, everything's coming together in the detective's head at the end of a mystery movie. I thought of usual suspects as like an example of the same kind of vibe. And I just thought that was fun. So I appreciated that.

It really heightens the drama as if like any of this matters. Like I like, so, you know, it makes us care. It makes us care about all these stupid, stupid things these women are doing, no offense to them. But we love it. So I think that one set out to me and again, just like Heather in that bed. And I don't know if it's, it's more just like the dynamic between the two. But Whitney just perched on the bed, her little monkey to do her bidding. And then she kind of says, we need to get Meredith in here.

She's like, what do you think we should do? We need to get Meredith in here. And she's like, go find her. And Whitney literally like somersaults away like a little little monkey. So that one else. That's so funny. Like what do you do? It just gets off the bed the way like a seven-year-old girl would just scoop it around.

So that all fits in. And then I think later, I think there's some comment that Lisa says, oh, I'm the dawn of Salt Lake City. But it's absolutely Lisa that's like the dawn of this friendship. So, sorry, Heather, that is. So, yeah, that's what I was focusing on this episode. Yeah, I think that I want to dive in a little bit later into that. that scene that we get with Whitney and Heather and eventually Meredith in the room because I think that that is the most fascinating strategic decision. Actually, you know what? Let's just dive in

dive into it right now. The choice to go and bring Meredith in here and like basically set a trap for her, I thought was just showing Heather playing at a level that we often don't expect of her. I think that she, I have not given her enough credit in the past for thinking strategically and being able to navigate strategically. And this just felt like such a great move to pull Meredith in and implicate her in talking behind Lisa's back. There was, once that trap was set, there was no way that Meredith get out of the eventual confrontation that we get at the end of the next episode. episode unscathed because there is now going to be doubt in Lisa's mind about whether or not Meredith actually had her back or if she was talking shit. And, you know, Meredith has put herself in this position because she has not really been vocal in any of like either way here. She keeps telling

Lisa, hey, I'm your friend. I'm your friend. And even though I think she did a good job within that conversation between Heather and Whitney of having Lisa's back to a degree not really going along with it and kind of like playing, continuing to play the middle. She has not been a strong enough ally for Lisa because she's been trying to play it safe that there is going to be doubt in Lisa's mind surrounding Meredith. And this was just such a great wedge maneuver in order to, you know, split this pairing up. And yeah, I thought it was a great move.

Sandra, I'm curious what your thought is on this play. Yeah, I think I totally agree. And they're just at her fingertips in this situation, which is really cool to see. Heather has always been that sort of our little narrator, the person that sort of helps us bridge that gap. But she's come so far from being kind of a hapless victim of a lot of these ladies in the first season to really pulling the strings and being able to

stir the pot in the way that works for her. I thought it was really interesting in the rest of the episode. She's so set on explaining that she is Lisa's friend, but she just has to be honest or be the truth teller. But I mean, she's clearly not Lisa's friend. And so I felt like that was a big theme in the later part or the later, the second episode. But absolutely, Meredith is caught. And Meredith's going to say her usual thing and it's not going to land particularly well because she always says it.

Like, I'll, I'll, I'll defend you if I agree with you. What does that even mean? In this world, that means nothing. Yeah, I mean, those words, like, I'll defend you if I agree with you. Like, she is choosing her words to be safe within the group. And she's like not willing to give Lisa the endorsement that Lisa is looking for her. So yes, that's a safe play within the dynamic of the group, but that's not what Lisa is looking for. She is looking for someone to just be in her corner. And Meredith was not willing to get that. And I think that, you know, this is just going to continue to create trouble for Meredith because she is not the master of her own destiny anymore. It's been shown that she is now like a tool for manipulating Lisa and manipulating the narrative surrounding Lisa. And I think, yeah, I think that because she has not chosen to dictate her own story, she's now being used as like as a tool.

And, you know, these, the rest of the women are skillful enough that they're able to use her position as a point of leverage now. I think it's really fascinating. Dylan, what are your thoughts here? Yeah, that's kind of my takeaway, too, that by trying to maintain neutrality, she's, Meredith has allowed herself to be a pawn that other people could use. And I think that Angie didn't really get the place she wanted by trying to activate Meredith in a group setting. You know, like when they had the psychic wine tasting lunch, she wasn't able to goad Meredith into attacking Lisa in front of everybody. and taking aside when everybody was arguing,

I think Heather realized that the better strategy was to continue planting that seed in private and to wait for Meredith and Lisa to have a conversation between themselves that would turn sour, which is what we see happen in episode 8. So I think Heather saw how to activate Meredith more subtly in a way that would actually work. Yeah, totally. I'm curious, before we get into a little bit more of the strategy here, What did you guys just think of the whole crossover element of this episode, the fact that we have this below deck tie-in? Sandy, I know you've watched a fair amount of below-deck.

How, what were your feelings? I mean, I think it's fun. I was looking forward to it. I don't feel like the below-deck angle of things was ever, did ever, ever got time to be explored. I mean, to be honest, it's a bit of a boring show below deck. And like, sometimes it's going to hit or miss. Some seasons really suck. Some episodes really suck.

I like it because I put it on the background. And I do really like it. But Joao sucks and I don't ever want to see him on my TV screen. So that was a thumbs down. He just creeps me out. And like, so he's trying to be funny and charming and he should just go away. But I think it was fun. I think, I don't know.

It didn't wow me spectacularly as far as a crossover. But like you guys have been saying, this location, was key to the narrative of these episodes. So overall, it really worked. But I'm interested if you had any stronger views on the crossover. I thought it was great personally. I really like it because, well, I like Blow Deck anyways. But you know when on like classic British drama,

there's that term upstairs downstairs where you like have like the drama that the upper classes are having in one part of the building and then the lower class is having in another part of the building. And I think part of the fun of Below Deck has always been, the obnoxious clients. And it's always fun to have a little gig once in a while in a housewife show where like the people who work at the restaurants are just befuddled or confused or frustrated by what's going on.

But by having the two shows combined, the audience kind of has equal sympathies. You're no longer completely aligned with the downstairs or completely aligned with the upstairs. So I like that. It feels a little more human when you see like the, the guests being obnoxious as hell. Like, they're all having fun, sure. You know, some of them are friends, whatever. But they're being obnoxious as hell, right?

And, and, and what do you have moments where they're like, oh, they, they requested the captain have dessert with a shirt off and stuff. It's like, Jesus Christ, you guys, you fucking suck. Like, these are still people working. It's, it's fun because you, yeah, your sympathies are with both sides. Equally, because these are both characters, you know, they're both heroes. You know, and nobody's just a periphery figure because they're both heroes in their own universes from the audience's perspective. So I think that adds a fun dynamism to it.

Yeah, I agree with both of you guys. I feel like this would have benefited a little bit by letting the below deck portion of this breathe a little. Yeah. If it was we didn't get that much of our perspective. Yeah, if it was like the based on the title card that we got on episode seven, I was like, okay, great. This is like a true crossover episode where, you know, it's got, it's double build as both an episode of Blowdeck and Real Housewives of Salt Lake City. It didn't give the Below Deck portion enough time to breathe. Like, you know, on Blow Deck, there's a lot of drama surrounding the logistics of how the ship operates.

And I don't think that we got to see very much of that. Maybe there is some counterpoint episode of Blow Deck down under. that contains that. I haven't been watching this season, but if that's the case, then maybe, you know, this is an argument that doesn't really make sense. But yeah,

I do agree that, you know, that upstairs, downstairs drama is really adds a lot of texture. And I thought that maybe the most interesting thing about this was how these women fit into that dynamic. Because Blow Deck is all about power. structures, right? There's all this like, there's a hierarchy to how the ship operates. And to see the cast that we know as guests try to fit into that while also kind of breaking the fourth wall a little bit by referencing the fact that they know each other through Bravo. Like,

you know, Captain Jason is friends with Heather based on. They fucked around. Yeah, exactly. But the fact that they are also, you know, all personalities on on these these shows. And so they're their peers in one way, but they also have this like reporting structure that is really interesting. And so I thought that that added a little bit of a dynamic that made me a little uncomfortable to be, to be honest. Like, I don't know. It made me feel a little uneasy. I don't know why, but it just like, it felt, I don't know, I felt uneasy about seeing this interplay.

And I thought that was an interesting dynamic. Yeah, there's definitely a sort of awkwardness to it. Like, who are you working for? Like, are the, are the below deck people working for the housewives? Are they working for the show? Are they working for the boat? And there's like the hierarchy and who they're playing for kind of gets all messed up. But I'm also unaware of how this was handled on the below deck down under show.

So apologies for not having done my research out there. But I would, I've been really curious if like the below deck episodes were like the same stories, but reedited it with a different focus because that would be cool as shit, I think. That would be awesome. But I don't know if that's how they played it or done. I don't think that season is on yet. Am I wrong? Oh, okay.

Like I'm watching a whole different blow deck right now. That's all I can tell you. So. We will see in the future, perhaps. I was excited to see Daisy. I think that she is a great like cheese too. I really like her. I was also really excited to see chef Ben, who, like,

I haven't really been paying attention to below deck, honestly, for a while. But he's like old school below deck. And I always loved him. And I feel like I haven't seen him on TV in a long time. And so to see that he's been. I really that. And yeah, yeah, I, I liked it.

Overall, I liked it. I think there is a little bit of missed opportunity, but I liked it. We did get a comment on our last episode on Spotify from someone who was commenting about the below deck crossover. This is Eleanor on Spotify. Consolidating their anti-Lisa coalition? And I'm sorry, but this ep is an instantly iconic. the fucking distorted unicorn voice. All of them grabbing each other's faces again.

Meredith's water bent. Just fucking dumping water on Brittany multiple times every time she mentions Jared. L.M.F.A.O. This is the first below-deck crossover episode. Like these episodes are instant, iconic classic ep immediately. We got to see Brittany flirting with J-O-A-O. Are you fucking kidding me? I really respect.

Somebody who also does not know how to pronounce Zhao or whatever that that Portuguese Brazilian name is, I really respect the strategy of just reading out the letters. That's great. Yeah. So thank you, John Wilson for that read. But yeah,

they were capitalized in the comment that I sent him. And I should have sent him a pronunciation note. But yeah. But that comment, like touched on something we haven't talked about yet, the unicorn. What do you think about that? Instead of classic.

Craig, I really think you should add that sound to your soundboard. You should have the good night, baby. You are loved. Oh, yeah. You can just cue up. I don't know when you'd use it, but. Okay. Just a hysterical prop.

Amazing. Yeah, it's truly amazing. Jared is one of my favorite characters in Salt Lake City. such a thirsty, creepy dude that he had to find a way onto this episode through a unicorn plushy. He got to respect that hustle. Yeah. Yeah. Just it's both hilariously Jared that he would make that gift and hilariously Brittany that she would be like,

oh, that's so sweet. I'm going to bring that with me everywhere. You guys are both creeps. Okay. So my favorite quote from this. episode is Good Night Baby, you're loved. But Sandra, what is yours? I think that that's all of our favorite quotes, really.

But, oh, the other one I liked, which is right at the beginning, Lisa comes on onto the yacht and says, all I do is love a good greeting and a cocktail, which makes no sense whatsoever. Yeah. I also love when Lisa came on to the yacht. She got her cocktail and then she was like, I'll drink this one, but everything after has to be made from my tequila. And I will give you that. Dylan, what was your favorite quote? And she had some good classic anti lines.

Near the top, she's one where they, she has one where they talk to her about how she's going to approach Lisa. And she says, I'm planning to keep my distance or I could stand next to her and make my ankles look smaller. I just love how petty it is. It's just like just reaching for like for such an insignificant insult. Just try to shoehorn it in. And it kind of comes off as charming because it's Angie and she's funny. And I don't know. I just like that.

Her dedication to the pettiness. Angie had another one of my favorite quotes. And this was like so well executed by the editors when the whole cucumber fiasco is up. And you know, they phrase it as a quote. question within the show like whose cucumber is this and we've got you know a stack of confessions of women denying that it's their cucumber and angi is just like people are going to think it's me because cucumbers are in Greek salads really fantastic uh okay let's get back into the the strategy and talk about who is gaining and who is losing here uh Dylan do you want to lead us off who

who are your picks? I mean, over the course of the two episodes, uh, Bronwyn is definitely gaining a lot because like I mentioned, I think she loses nothing at all and only like gains from the situation. Like I don't think she surrenders a foot of ground. And, um, and doesn't have to, well, yeah, I mean, she blows up in the second episode. But like the,

the heavy lifting of actually attacking Lisa, she manages to avoid that to, to avoid initially looking like, one who's trying to to rip her face off. She initially seems to just be content to vent, not content, but misdirects herself to vending her frustrations at Brittany, who's an easier punching bag. And, uh, and let's Heather just take, kind of take control. And nonetheless, gets a full of policy out of Lisa, which she nonetheless just refuses to acknowledge, basically. So it's hard to not see that as a string of wins with no losses really accrued along the way,

I think, during this boat trip. Yeah, I agree. Bronwyn is coming into this in a position where she's down because of these, you know, all this talk that's online about the allegations of fraud or whatever it is. Which never come up again on the boat, right? Like, nobody even talks about them at any point. Yeah. I mean, they talk about like where they came from, but they don't actually talk about it. Yeah. And I think Meredith even calls it out in a confessional. Like, we're all talking. about where this information came from, not about the actual contents of the information. And I think that, you know, that is, that is the direct effect of Bronwyn deciding to go on this trip. She was able to shift what the dialogue around this was. It was about where did this

leak come from as opposed to if she was not there, everyone would be talking about, you know, speculating on what the actual allegations are. So, uh, the, The decision to come on this trip has has definitely paid off. Sandra, who are your biggest gainer or biggest, biggest loser positionalize? Well, on the topic of Bronwyn, I totally agree. I mean, she,

she was ascending here. And like you said, she turned it all onto Lisa. Like everyone just funneled everything onto Lisa, which, I mean, honestly, it was a bit much at some point.

I just started feeling bad. If someone's, like, being bullied by the group, I don't like, fine. I like the teams, you know,

so, but I have a question for you guys, about Bronwyn. She also, and maybe this, I'm interested in your take on strategy-wise. So a couple times, she just out of the absolute blue, from my opinion, was like, anyway, the other day, Brittany said this, this, and this about so-and-so, and started massive fights that activated Meredith, which is always hilarious. So we very much appreciate that. But like, I know that she hates Brittany. Strategically is this, is this high level? Because it's, seems a little blunt. And I'm interested in your, I mean, maybe it doesn't matter because it just

causes a fight that's not about her personal scandal. But really, she's hanging out with Brittany. Brittany's confiding in her. And then she's just very brashly listing off all these things Britney said at like a store three weeks ago or whatever. And so part of me is like, is that, is that like, you know, strong strategic work? Or is it just like throwing out gossip and making a confusion what do you guys think? Yeah. I think that, I think that, think that the ultimate result of this works in her favor because yeah like you said they're not talking about the allegations now and i think it also creates a wedge between brittany who is kind of floundering and not really knowing where to go but loosely aligning herself in lisa's camp and

you know seeing lisa as a potential ally here and by causing this huge gap between Brittany and Meredith, that makes that position that much harder. And so I think that this ended up being like really good for Bronwyn, whether or not that was the intention. I don't know. But it certainly seems like Bronwyn came onto this trip with the intention of if not blowing up Brittany's spot at the very least keeping her at arm's length. Like we see the fact that she doesn't want to room with her. She doesn't want to forge that bond forward. And we had this scene that was injected.

The lower third said that it took place one week prior where Bronwyn was shopping with Brittany. It seems like there was opportunity to, you know, come together. And Britney was, you know, giving Bronwyn information at the very least, by saying what she doesn't like about people and whether or not that is Brittany trying to get closer to Bronwyn or it's just her not knowing how to operate within this group, which I think there's a case to be made that she has no idea what she's doing here and in a strategic capacity.

I think that there was opportunity for Bronwyn to align with Brittany if she wanted to, but she has made it very clear that she's intentionally not doing that. She does not want to do anything friendly. She's going to sleep outside on a pool chair instead of sharing the room. So I think that there is, there is strategy here. And I don't think that there's actually a lot of downside for her throwing Brittany under the bus here because Brittany does not have any real like social position to fire back. We talked about a number of episodes ago about how Angie potentially getting Meredith worked up and like burning that bridge

that she has with Meredith by giving her this information about Lisa and you know setting off the setting the ball rolling that way was a good decision because this is not like a very strong friendship that she has to you know table as as risk in order to make this play Bronwyn has even less of a friendship with Brittany and Brittany has even has even less social currency than than Meredith. So this is like super low risk and, you know, not super high reward,

but enough reward to be a good incentive for her to, you know, choose this moment to play when she's in the process of trying to make a real wide turn on this storyline about her fraud. And this is just something that helps kind of leverage steering the ship in that direction. I wish I had more nautical metaphors to throw at this, but I don't. But I think that this helps her turn the helm in the direction that she wants. But yeah, I don't know, Dylan, did you have other thoughts on that decision? It feels like a mix of strategy and just personal animosity, the way that

Bronwyn treats Brittany. Like, I think Broadway just kind of hates her. Like, I think she just kind I can't stand there. I think so part of it is just purely a way for her to vent her pent up emotions on somebody who's powerless, who she dislikes. But also, I think it's like because she has no interest in being allies with Brittany. And Brittany is one of the only people who could potentially be an ally for Lisa. She would much rather just kind of cut off her arms and legs so she can't possibly do anything rather than sink to inviting her onto her side.

And if there is that strategic element to it, it does kind of work because we get, when Brittany actually does try to do something, she sits down and is like, Meredith, I saw on TikTok that your husband's cheating and doesn't really amount to much. But, you know, the fact that Brittany is trying to do something decides to direct it at Meredith, because Meredith was, as that commentator astutely pointed out water mending against her. it at least ensures that that Britney's energies are directed elsewhere. Yeah, I appreciate Brittany is trying to do things here. She doesn't have a lot of platform to really stand on. So she can't get much done. She's got little bits of pieces that she seems like she's trying to throw the wall to see what sticks. And I just appreciate that she's.

bringing some chaos here and is able to just like deal with it when it doesn't go her way because everything she does is flying back in her face and not working at all but i appreciate that she is continuing to do that as opposed to just withdrawing and i think that that is what is going to continue to keep her on this show eventually someone might see something in her that they're able to use as an asset but i can't imagine what that would be but just maybe her her ability to just kind of exist and continue to like be a little bit of a a cockroach here and not ever died no matter what nuclear fallout after. You're being meaner than Broadway right now, Craig.

But I think that like that is that is a tenable position within the cast here. Maybe not to do anything really socially. But that's a little bit of the game that Whitney. plays, the fact that she is able to kind of bounce back from like whatever shit happens and like hang around and, you know, be a little bit of teflon to anything that comes her way. Like that is proven successful for Whitney. Although I think Whitney is way more skilled strategically at orchestrating things. So that adds value. But, you know, I think the fact that being able to play from the bottom and just deal with, you know, being where all the shit rolls

down at you, I think that that is a position that, you know, can lead to longevity on the show. Were there any other strategic decisions that we haven't talked about that you guys wanted to discuss, Sandra? I don't think so. Just obviously reiterating that Heather's ascending, Lisa's plummeting and has no allies, strategically, which, which again is not fun. And if her only ally is Brittany, that's a sad team.

That's not a good enough team. I don't know. Do you guys agree? Like, how do you feel when someone's kind of singled out like this? Whether it's their fault or not, I truly don't care. But just like it feels like it's a bit of a dead end for action. I don't know. I think we are reaching a point where this will eventually get exhausting.

Like, we will, you know, pile on. when they when they happen it's fine i think it adds like i think they're very exciting in when we get big blowups like we're getting right now it is leading to a really great tv right now but it's not sustainable for the rest of the season like we're going to get really tired of it being the everyone pile on lisa show so um we'll see how they're able to pivot out of this uh the fact that they're What's playing in the favor of this particular pylon is that it's not just one thing. It's not just like Lucy Lucy, Lucy, Apple, Goosey or juicy or whatever it was where we had to hear about that like one thing over and over again. The fact that there is a lot of dimension to this pile on, I think is what is making it kind of interesting.

We have the initial, all the allegations against Lisa that were out there. That was like the first thing. And then it became the Lisa versus Angie show where they were firing shots back and forth about Lisa's, the products that Lisa's son had put out there. And, you know, they were trading spars there. And then now there's the stuff that's in the, in the press. And so I think the fact that this is multidimensional is working in its favor here. Unless there's like more skeletons in Lisa's closet that they want to drag out. it there. I think that we're going to need to move on from that. But that actually brings up a point

that one of our commenters on YouTube brought up. I'm going to play a comment. All of the ladies seem so sure that Lisa does these backdoor investigations. I lean towards believing them just on the fact that Lisa did try to take down Mary in season two by meeting with that guy that was putting out all those claims about Mary, taking his money, etc. I think you have to have Cajonas to go against an established religious organization, and Lisa did it in season two, had a whole sit-down with the man. I wonder if she would have continued if the man didn't end up passing away. However, I think the audience will begin to defend Lisa if they don't show some tangible

evidence because every episode is Lisa versus insert other cast member's name here. The gang up, even if it is justified, is starting to bore me, because other than Angie, I don't think the reads are that memorable to keep the audience entertained. Yeah, I mean, that's basically what Sandy just said, right? And I agree with that sentiment, but I also, let's not forget, we're just midway through the season, right? If it continues to be just this, yeah, then that'll get really exhausting. But I assume that there will be other twists into this story. Already we see a little glimmer of Mary maybe starting to show some sympathy towards Lisa's side.

If that becomes anything, I don't know. But I assume that there will be other twists that maybe some people will take Lisa's side in whatever happens next, whatever revelations come out next. otherwise it will get exhausting, but I'm not at that point yet because I do appreciate having this kind of mid-season point where it becomes such like a scorched earth, full-on assault on one person culminating in one indelible image of somebody being incredibly isolated and alone. A powerful figure on the show finding themselves with their back against the wall in this position of incredible solitude. I think that's a dramatic position for the show to find itself in mid-season.

And now let's see where it goes from there. Yeah, totally. Because if we think about Lisa's overall arc, we have had her mostly at the top of her game throughout the entire history of this show. And then now we've witnessed a huge fall. I think to see Lisa rising is going to be really interesting. I feel like in my mind, the best way that this plays out is that Lisa kind of, falls to the background for the rest of the season. I think she needs space before we're willing to see her rise up again.

So if she's able to just kind of sit in the background and just let something else take the front seat and it's no longer the Everyone versus Lisa show, that is going to be, that is going to be beneficial to her overall, her overall story. And then next season, I think we're going to be ready to see her rise from the ashes, And as she said when she woke up, look who's back from the dead. Like I want to see Lisa back from the dead next season. I'm not ready for it this season. I think that it needs time to breathe before we see her rising again.

Otherwise, it's going to feel like the stakes were meaningless. She's at the bottom. We need to see that be the end of her, you know, her voyage this, this season. And let's see, let's see what's next. What is next? Like what what is next? I think that is always the risk that we have with these pylon seasons is that everyone gets so laser focused on the pylon on the subject of the pylon that they're not able to lay the groundwork here. And I think there's a real risk that we don't have anything, anything to follow this up.

I'm curious what you guys think about that. What could take the front seat? What could be driving? Let's get some more twists in there. Let's see. I mean, maybe there's things that are yet to be revealed. I don't know. I guess I'm more in a wait-and-see mode than in a prediction mode, I suppose.

I want Monica back. Let's bring her back. Hell yeah. That would be amazing. Lisa should contact Monica. She should go to like a subterranean prison and like turn an ancient key and like release Monica from a cell and be like, you know, it's joint forces. Please, please. I really, really want that.

Okay. Are there any other highlights? Oh, actually, one thing that we touched on that we didn't really dive into was Mary actually seemingly to take, to stake a position, which is not something that she normally does. But the fact that she was kind of leaning towards Lisa's side, at least in the question of whether or not Meredith is actually supporting Lisa. And the fact that she was like, Meredith, you're boring. I thought that like, you know, that's a very strong. statement to someone, but like accurate. That's what people have been saying. She's not really doing anything. And I really like that read. What do you guys think about Mary taking a position here?

It's not really a strong position, right? That's why I kind of put a pin on it as like something that could be interesting if it develops further. But but so far it's it's still pretty like sideline stuff, I think. Mary, you never, she's a wild card. You never know what random root opinion she's going to share. I think it's all good. Like, we all want more Mary. However, they, like, bribed her to actually participate in the show in the last season or two. I appreciate it. She's a gem. I feel like her storylines never have substance. Kind of like what Dylan's saying, like, they're just more like what's at the top of her head that day and they don't usually last, but they're still fun. And so I'm here for it. Yeah, I think that her, like, personal storylines are

very compelling, but her, you know, the social storyline within the group doesn't really add a lot. This seems almost, I think it was interesting because it felt like she was trying to almost do something for Angie, like maybe try to continue, because the wedge between Meredith and Lisa, that is great for Angie, who's beefing with Lisa. Like, that is really good. The fact that, you know, in trying to further that wedge that she fell more on Lisa's side is interesting because we've seen tension between Mary and Angie here. And so whether or not this kind of furthers that tension, which seems to have been overcome,

I'm curious about that at least. Okay, let's dive into any other highlights that we haven't covered. Sandra, do you have anything? I have to say it's like a low light. this zombie dinner was so tacky. It bothered me. I don't usually care that much about people's themed dinners either way. And I love Halloween.

But like, you're on a yacht. This was, their costumes were not good. I just, it just bothered me. It just made me unhappy to have to have to see it. I shouldn't, I don't know. That's just how I feel. Below deck always, that's, yeah. That's a staple of below deck though.

I feel like they always have these. super tacky theme parties on this megay yacht and um yeah i i don't get it but um i was glad that we got that because to me that is a staple of below deck even when they're not like tacky theme there's like the tacky glass beads that they scatter all over the the table that in their like glamorous table arrangements that i don't know it's like you don't like the table arrangements they work hard on those I don't. This is this is me controversial hot take. I think the table arrangements are bad. I did kind of like Bronwyn's dead octopus on the face, which was at least different from what everybody else went with, which is just knives in the head.

When I think of zombies, my immediate instinct isn't like just to have a pretend a sharp object is going through your head like you're Steve Martin about to sing a song about King Tut or something. I don't know why that's the one thing that they all did to evoke zombie. use them. Okay, who are your stars here? Three stars. Sandra, we'll start with you. Jared, the unicorn, gets a star. Mary gets a star for comic relief as always.

Just, you know, a nice little shot of her, like, getting lost in her cover-up thing and not being able to open a door. Just always nice. And Brittany gets a star for her. That was a great moment. Just the transition from it being zombie footage and they're like like, oh, the zombie can't open the door and then they take off the filter. It's like, no, no, it's just Mary.

Just can't take her out. The door opens. And my third star goes to Brittany for some super fringe, sorry, super cringe flirting, which I always appreciate. That was amazing. Oh, yeah. Throughout. Dylan, how about you?

The first star has to be Heather, just a power, power episode from her. Just doing a lot. She's always, as you've mentioned said, or she always enjoys being kind of a narrator, a figure, guiding the audience through it. This is the kind of moment where I think her abilities to be a narrator for the audience and being an organizing force within the group kind of really came together. And she really, she provides us lines like at one point she says, like Lisa, as smarter and darker than any of us imagine, that really cohere this storyline that she's uniting both the show and the group around of like,

we must vanquish the evil force within us. And I have to make sure it happens. This is really her trip, obviously, but she really takes control of it. And I thought this was a very strong couple of episodes for her. So I got to give Heather number one star. I'll give number two star to Brittany because she's consistently funny every time she's on screen for the cringe stuff like like you said like not intentionally funny like just like it's just every time she just wanders into a seat it's like what rake is she going to step on. So let's let's throw a star out to her and a third start of Bronwyn. Yeah, she's got to be on there too.

just a very solid presence. Does absolutely lose her cool at the end, but I think by losing her cool later rather than earlier, she really affirms that proposition because it feels like she's allowed to lose her cool at that point because at that point, these allegations of her husband making out and farting have already been loved at her. So she is like a really good reason to lose her cool. So also what's with Mary?

being like, what's wrong with him? He's farting? Like, come on, Mary. We know about your flatulence, too. But I thought she handled herself really well and was good TV. Yeah, I think Bronwyn is going to be my number one star for a lot of the reasons that you mentioned. You know, we talked about her ability to contain this story that and shift it to being about what's in the press.

I think that she took something that, you know, is potentially something that comes back to be a storyline about her later, this whether or not Todd is cheating on her and, you know, farting with other women. Let me just put out how it was really funny to be when, when they're like, you know, Lisa, you said that he was making out with a friend of yours and farting the entire time.

And she's like, I never said a friend of mine. Yeah. But yeah, I think that she's like really took ownership of the storylines and was able to move things forward in a dynamic way. So she's my number one pick. I think Heather as well, really great strategy here. Love to see it. I think, you know, she was the catalyst for.

trapping Meredith and helping drive drive that wedge. I think there's a lot of good candidates for the third star here. For me, it's going to be Lisa just because I have been compelled by how she is responding to her downfall. And it's very dynamic. It's very impassioned. And I think that it is really great TV. I think we probably would have been bored by this pile on if it weren't someone as entertaining as Lisa having to respond to this.

And she's got a lot of tricks in her bag. We have to give her credit for being the person that is going to the press here. If she's not taking ownership of it, but it's clearly her that has done this. And she is feeding the meat grinder. She's feeding herself to the meat grinder, but she is feeding the meat grinder of this season. and like giving everyone lots to talk about. And so I want to give her credit for that. But yeah, anything else that we haven't discussed that you guys want to bring up?

I just want to say I thought it was a really good gag, kind of a combination of gigs that during the blow up at the end of episode seven, we have this constant cutaways to Csick Angie and anti-social Mary just hanging out in the room together and having their lunch apart. combined with Captain Jason continuously trying to sit down and have dinner with the girls but they're always shouting so he can't find an entrance

and I liked how they brought those two running gags together with the punchline of Captain Jason just going into Angie and Mary's room and being like hey can I eat with you guys even though the room presumably just smelt of vomit and Mary's farts

and was probably less inviting okay well I think that about covers it for this week So, Dylan, this is going to be your last episode for a little bit. You're going to be traveling. So we might not see you before the end of Salt Lake City. So I think this was a good finale for Salt Lake City for you. So do you want to let people know where they can find you?

Yep, you could find me writing about movies on Substack. Just look for my name, which is Dylan, D-Y-L-L-A-N-Ferguson. The last thing I put up with some Halloween content, I recommended five. American horror movies from the 1970s that a lot of people don't know about that I think our masterpiece is. A little late coming at you, but if you're still looking for horror movie recommendations, there's something you could read. Yeah, and speaking of horror, I want to give a shout out to the Fear Coded podcast. David Arnold, who was a guest a couple weeks back. They just did a Q&A. They answered one of our questions and they did some taglines for horror villains.

So go and check that out. Sandra, want to let people know where they can find you? am at corporeal curios on Instagram. And I'm Craig Midwinter. You can find us on Spotify, YouTube, anywhere you find your podcast. Look up Bravo Outsider. Hit subscribe. Leave us a comment. All that stuff helps us out a ton.

Tell a friend. But yeah, that's it for next week. Good night, baby. You're loved. You are loved.