Oscars Outsider - Will Angie Flip Meredith? | Real Housewives of Salt Lake City S06E04 Recap/Analysis | Bravo Outsider Podcast

Episode Date: October 10, 2025

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Like Lisa is doing her research on everyone. True or not. And she's just keeping it back here in case you come for her. She's going to have this bomb. There's so much espionage that is happening during this episode. A lot of like maneuvering. You've got Angie is forging things further with Heather. We've got her also trying to make waves with Meredith.

Do you think she's going to be successful in flipping Meredith? I don't know. I'm not sure she will be. It's a big gamble. But I think it's a calculated gamble on her part. I don't think that Angie's doing this stupidly. Like, this will for sure work out for me. Meredith will for sure be my ally.

I think Angie absolutely knows that this is a big risk of making this play. Meredith right away says, like, you know I'm going to go to Lisa and tell her what you said. And Angie's like, yeah, of course I know that. Like, Angie knows that that's going to be the next step, obviously. She's smart enough to realize that's how it's going to go down. But she clearly thinks that this gamble has enough of a potential upside to be, for it to be a card that's worth playing at this stage. So it will at least shake things up.

It will at a minimum activate Meredith, who's been the one player in this unfolding drama, who has not really been activated yet, who's just been kind of passively defending Lisa without really being a strong ally. It will at least shake things up. I think Angie is expecting that even if Meredith plans to just go and squeal to Lisa, that discussion that will happen between Meredith and Lisa,

which will presumably get in the following episode, could in itself create a schism between them, which might shake up the dynamics. It's a bold play. I really like Angie putting this card on the table. So do you think it's more intended to cause chaos or that it's just intended to be a risky play, like that she might bring Meredith onside?

Yeah, I think Angie could see a future where Meredith comes on side. But I think that if the outcome is more just chaos, I think she can work with that too. I think she would rather have Meredith activated one way or another than have Meredith just kind of passively be sitting next to Lisa and watching the proceedings. And you got to think that Angie must have some kind of receipt or something here, right? I hope she does for her sake, because if she doesn't, then it kind of doesn't seem to be like a gamble that makes sense to play. Like she would need to have something, some text she can show, something to show that like she has some bit of evidence that that something like this happened for her to be able to,

spin her story in the way that she is that like, yeah, Lisa was absolutely trying to dig up stuff on you and directing me how to do it. She has to at least be able to show something that gestures towards that being a real possibility. So that's one of the interesting things that we're going to be looking out for going forward. Yeah, that is interesting because I think that if she has any sort of intention of this being like a viable attempt at flipping Meredith, then you're right. she would have to have something in her back pocket that she's able to point to. But she also withheld that during this this conversation.

So chaos is definitely at least part of her plan. She wants Meredith to run back to Lisa and see what happens before revealing any more of her hand. She wants to cause a bit more chaos. I'm wondering whether or not it is a bluff that she has something that she can actually show. Because chaos could be the goal. It could be just to cause chaos. And if she doesn't actually have anything, then she's just stirring the pot for the sake of agitating Lisa. And she's burning this connection that she's building with Meredith in order to accomplish that,

which I think does actually work well for there's not a lot of value in her relationship with Meredith at this point. Yeah. Within the season or the story. Like they don't have this real deep bond. It's not a lot. She doesn't have to burn a lot in order to cause this chaos. So I could see there maybe not being anything. But I feel like in my heart of hearts, my Greek Angie loving heart, I'm not Greek, but when I watch her, I feel Greek, I feel like she has something.

And she, like, she's a prop queen. So she's going to come out and make a big show of it. She's going to have like a poster board that's larger than Lisa or a scroll or something. I feel like we're going to get a big moment of impact. and I am really looking forward to it. Yeah, when she brings them on a Greek trip, she'll be standing on top of Mount Olympus and a toga and will, like, unfurl a scroll with, like, one text message that's been like

photoshopped onto it or something. Though I think really the risk from her side is, like you said, she doesn't have much to lose by losing Meredith as a friend because their friendship isn't that much in the first place. I think what she has to lose is giving Lysile weapon is, is letting, giving Lisa a way that Lisa can be like, you're messy as hell, you're like making up stories against me, which would potentially give Lisa ammunition to recruit other people like maybe Heather to be against Angie. So I think that's the real risky side of it is that she's,

she's kind of handing Lisa something that Lisa could easily turn back in her face if she can't back up her claims somehow, somewhere. Yeah, totally. Hello and welcome to the Bravo Outsider podcast. I'm your host Craig Midwinter joined as always by Dylan Ferguson. And we are talking with the latest episode of Real Housewives of Salt Lake City. It was a banger. We've dived into strategy a little bit here. We're going to get into a bit more of that later because I think there is more to talk about.

But in terms of the presentation of this episode, was there a specific scene that's out to you in terms of driving the narrative forward that you really liked? Let's get into that moment where Whitney talks to Brittany in the flower shop. Okay, yeah. Yeah. First of all, like, just to touch on the strategy of it, it is pretty interesting for Whitney to kind of single out Brittany, which is, I think that nobody else really seemed to be interested in doing because nobody seems to really care about Britney.

Yeah. But Whitney sees, I guess, some potential for somebody who has been a Lisa ally, if not not a particularly powerful one to be one over. Aesthetically, though, first of all, this flower shop scene looks great. You know, they like to have all those green fronds swaying everywhere behind them. Both Whitney and Brittany are kind of similarly attired. They're both wearing kind of black jackets or brown, rather brown jackets with like pink shirts underneath them. Though Whitney's leather coat is a little more insane.

Speaking of lunatic fringe, that's what she's got going on with that coat there. Now, by the way, I've never said this before, but Lunatic Fringe is an amazing name for a hair salon. I love that. Yeah, totally. Yeah. It's great. But to stay on topic on that scene there, the flower shop is a great setting. And it's also fun the way that it calls back to a line.

We had a little bit earlier when we get the little bit with Whitney and Justin. That's his name right. Justin. Yeah, yeah. With Whitney and Justin where she's setting up a policy and a little bit of just a stupid innuendo. But she uses the metaphor of a flower, right? She says, like, I had to kind of close down, like, one of those flowers that has to close and reopen. And now my, my flower is reopening.

And, you know, in the moment, they use that as another bit of their sniggering innuendo. But it comes back in the flower shop scene where they're surrounded by flowers. And Whitney is trying to convince Brittany to kind of stop just focusing on Jared with whom she is on the track to getting engaged again, according to her. and open up her emotions and think about her daughter more and what's right for her as a person. And when she's grilling Whitney pretty hard about this, when she's grilling Brittany about this, Brittany is it's really hard to keep talking about Britney and Whitney. Like, how can I not get those two names mixed up in my mouth every time?

The wrong one's always going to come out. But Brittany is like fondling this little cactus, right? She's like grating this little cactus. Like the opposite of a flower, like the opposite of a soft deliose. looket thing, which needs to open up under the right conditions. She's got this little, little brittle, spiky thing with its, with its, uh, it's, uh, it's intimidating exterior. Um, and, and, uh, she's just holding out to that, which is like, I don't know, I want to, I want to, want to, want to stain my little bubble with, with me and Jared.

And, uh, I was fascinated that that's what she had her hands by that. And I was like, bad. Yeah, absolutely. That's so it. And then Whitney actually says like, Britney put down the cactus. And, uh, so I, uh, I, uh, uh, I, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, I. I love that she directly addresses that little image in the scene, and then which, which Brittany does. And she kind of manages to seemingly break through a little bit and be like, you need to open up like a delicate flower. The way if I've opened up, she doesn't say those words.

But that's the understanding I get from the setting, from the aesthetic and all that. So that was the moment that that stood out for me in terms of having imagery. That was a little bit foreshadowed by a comment that, that they included Whitney making earlier. just to show us that there's a little something there. There's a little something behind the setting that they're in. Totally.

I feel like we've talked about flower shops and gardening shops as when they're used as a setting on these shows before, as a symbol for new beginnings. Yeah, we see it surprisingly often on these shows. And to see them kind of forge a little bit of a foundation of potentially being able to be friends or work together in some capacity, I really like that as a setting. I always like when we see stuff like that.

But the symbol of the cactus, I think, is really one of the most interesting parts of this episode. And I love seeing Brittany as she is being kind of grilled or put on the spot by Whitney about her relationship with her daughter. And like, I think giving her really heartfelt and pretty sound advice about focusing on her relationship with her daughter, as opposed to focusing on her relationship with Jared and being like, you've got an opening here. Brittany is like touching the spikes on the, the cactus very like almost as if to feel pain somewhere other than in her heart while being confronted with this strained relationship that she has with her daughter.

And I just like I really like this kind of subconscious action and body, body language that we're getting from Brittany on this. And like you said, the fact that Whitney actually picks up on that. And it becomes more than just a symbol on the screen and like actually something that is acknowledged by the characters. I think that that just adds a lot of depth to it and really like makes for a richer text. So yeah, this is, this is a great scene.

Yeah, it really is. And it just looks cool too. Yeah, totally. I, I had another scene that really stood out to me in terms of the overall presentation of it. And it was the conversation that we got between. Bronwyn and Lisa, which I thought was actually had a lot of heart to it as well. But what I appreciated was like this is contrasted with the conversation that we get between Bronwyn and and Muzzy, who I'm sure we're going to talk about this later, which was a very like cold conversation and very sterile, similar to the one that we got last episode, but even worse in terms of how it made you feel. the conversation that we get between Bronwyn and Lisa is full of like warm tones and it is overall more visually warm than the actual conversation that they get.

It's a little standoffish in places, but I do think that they really kind of connect fundamentally. And I thought it was really interesting the way they struck a balance in the presentation of this by having it like be bathed in. warm light, but still doing that kind of waist up medium shot presentation that we get, as opposed to the more intimate close-ups that you would have during a true emotional connection. It showed growth there and I just really like the presentation that we got there and how that is contrasted with the conversation between Bronwyn and her mother, which I think is like a fascinating dynamic that is evolving throughout this season. And I love that we're getting more meat on the Bronwyn bone and like learning a bit more context about how she operates here.

So, yeah, I really liked it. Yeah, yeah, totally. Were there any other things that stood out to you in terms of the presentation on this episode? I did like the scene where Angie and Heather gossip. Well, Angie does Heather's hair just because it's such like a classic gossip setting. You know, having like the inside the hair salon. well, one's putting curls in the other. They're just like, just, just slinging some tea.

And I really liked, it was just a lot of fun. Like, the way they incorporate little, like, little flashback stagings of what went down of, of Angie reading her text messages between her, at least, which are really funny. And it's just like a fun, juicy little moment in like a classic chicks gossiping setting. I think, like, one of the things that I really like about Angie is, that she does not get enough credit for is her camera awareness here. And the fact that we, during the scene, when we get the flashbacks put together, she's got the presence of mind to be dictating her text into the handset.

And so that we pick it up on camera. They've got a visual to accompany with that. She knows that that is going to make it on camera. As opposed to Lisa, who just sends the text, we don't have anything visually. So she is able to use this in order to own this narrative in a way that Lisa doesn't have that opportunity because she's not on camera actually doing the texting and forwarding things. So this becomes Angie's story. And she also is like we get a shot of her going downstairs to pick up fresh wolf supplies. And she like doesn't exaggerate like blowing the dust off of the product.

and I just really love how she leaned into this idea that, you know, this is stuff that she has to really go into the depth of her salon in order to pick up. And it's just been sitting here. Just really expert camera awareness here. A great way to take ownership of this narrative and make sure that it's her point of view that is coming across here. That's great stuff from a storytelling perspective.

It's great stuff from a strategy perspective, too, just because of that ownership that. she gets over that story. Yeah, and Angie just has a lot of fun with that kind of sparring too, which is, um, I was glad for that seat also because after the sit down between Lisa and Bronwyn, I was a little worried that like, oh, no, are they going to like diffuse this whole thing? Is this not going to be actually a conflict that last all season the way I thought it was, you know, because they do kind of settle things more or less between Bronlin and Lisa. And then I'm, I'm very glad to see that it really like picking up steam again with Angie taking the lead because it's more fun when

it's Angie too. Like I've been really enjoying Bronwyn, I clashing with Lisa. She holds her own very well. I've talked about it on that on past it. So I like the way that she insists on her own framing and handles herself well. But Angie's funnier. And so it's fun. Like, first of all, Lisa's text was a really funny open and salvo too. And she's like, oh, I demoed you $600 for their product. Let me know if you need me to send cleaners too. Sorry your shop is so dusty. And then like you say, Angie, you know, like has the presence of mind to

own the moment, as you said. And you kind of see her kind of like perchapose and she's thinking as she's talking like, like, what's going to be my reply and being like, you know, you should maybe send money to the people who say that you owe it to them because you don't owe me, buddy. My shop isn't dusty. Your product is though, because it's been sitting there for two years.

It's just, you know, she has a lot of fun of those moments. And it's really fun to switch between those little staged flashbacks and her doing Heather's hair. Well, Heather is still trying to kind of do her like stand from South Park Routoon and be like, well, that both sides kind of did. They were kind of wrong here. Like she does at the end of the dinner. It just kind of tries to try to play both sides and be like, oh, you went too far and you

went too far too. And then Angie's like, you know, still going off and being like, yeah, you said your hair is so great and shiny. All her hair is great. Yours has dyed bowling ball black. And Heather's like, that's what I'm talking about. A lot of fun. What do you think of this move of like sending an assistant in order to pick up the supplies?

Because this is actually like one of the things that I love in Housewives is kind of this like ranged attack where someone is not there to actually like make the strike and is not like making the strike directly. We see a lot of close quarters combat where they're fighting at a dinner table or fighting over text and they're doing that directly. I really love a moment where we see someone launching an attack at range by doing something like sending their assistant in order to pick something up. Like I love that. We've seen that a lot on Real Housewives of New Jersey where, you know, Teresa sends like a gift to a party. And then all of a sudden she's at the party, even though she wasn't invited to the party. What do you think of Lisa's approach to this kind of long range attack? It is a lot of fun.

And it has a lot to do with, I think, Lisa's strategy. which isn't necessarily working out great for her, but I think that is to say that she wants to only engage on her own terrain. I think we saw that with her skipping out the opening trip, the opening capping trip. I think we saw that with her choosing to take everybody on when it's her lunch at her property, her event that she has organized,

that she has set up props for and everything. I think we saw that in this episode, when she sits down with Bronwyn, she does not arrange to have a lunch the way everybody else is arranging to have lunch to talks. She makes sure that Bronwyn comes to her business and is sitting in, you know, her lounge and her place. I think, I think for Lisa, it's kind of a way for her to try to control any discussion that she's going to have with anybody else to try to try to maybe intimidate and to try to project

a sense of importance, which is obviously very, very important to her, is that she wants everybody to always see her as being more important, more powerful, more wealthy, more well-connected than they are. I'm not sure it works great because it does seed a lot of ground to other people controlling the narrative when she's not around, but I can see the plan behind it, I think. I think she wants to look aloof, powerful in control, and I think she sees that as her way of doing it. So I think if she went directly herself to lunatic fringe, that would be like her playing an away game and she only wants to play home games. Yeah, totally. How about themes

within this episode? Were there themes that sit out to you? I haven't given that much thought. The, I mean, the image of the flower, that kind of closing it opening up, which feels very, it's a very self-serving image

from Whitney who's trying to build a narrative around her business feeling, which is as an alternative to the narrative being that she ran a multi, what do you call it? Multi level marketing scheme. But it does, the idea of like when you, when it's appropriate to like allow other people close or not is something that rhymes a bit with what we haven't talked about yet, which is kind of the big heartrending moment between Bronwyn and Muzzy her mom, which comes near the end.

So that, as the thing that gets realist, that kind of feels like a theme. Like when is it hurting or helping somebody to open up to them and allow them to do what they want to do or put limits on what they want to do and stuff like that. I don't know. I'm kind of rambling here. What do you think? Yeah. No, I think that that's interesting. I think like one of the things that is really interesting.

And this has been throughout the season in general, but in particular this episode, they're here. has been a lot of focus on parental relationships, like either your relationship with your parent or a parent's relationship with their children. And that is strung throughout this episode. I mean, obviously, the fight between Lisa and Bronwyn at its core has a lot to do with Bronwyn and Gwen and their relationship with Gwen's like paternal grandparents. And Lisa talks about how sensitive she is about the attacks on her kids relating to, you know, Angie talking about fresh wolf that product line. We get the conversation between Whitney and Brittany where they are talking about the relationship that Brittany has with her kids. And also, obviously, like you said, the emotional centerpiece

for this episode, or one of the emotional centerpieces of this episode, was that conversation between Bronwyn and her ghoul of a mother. And that is, is all about, you know, Bronwyn's relationship with her daughter and her relationship with her mother. But I also thought one interesting thing that we haven't really touched on yet was the scene that we got about Mary when she's in the church. And we see the weird painting of Jesus and her grandmother. And Mary talks a lot about both her relationship with Robert Jr. and her relationship with her mother. And I thought it was really, it was a really interesting mirror when she's talking about how when her mother kind of abandoned her and the church, she felt like she lost her mother. And then she felt that loss again once her mother passed away.

And I see this mirrored in her relationship with Robert, where she feels like she's losing her son once before he's actually physically gone. but she's losing him to substance and like he's fading away and I thought that that really underscored a lot of the emotional depth that we have got from Mary over the past two season and I just really like them adding that context. I really like the setting of the family church that they have been working on for two years in order to rebuild, but there's still like barbs in it and it's not quite ready. I just thought that that was a very rich moment. Yeah, because she used her cousin as a contractor, and he really milks it, as she said. Mary is, she's just on another planet, though. Like, when are we getting the Hulu original series about whatever the hell is going on in Mary's church?

Because that shit is crazy. Like, just the little hints that we get in that discussion. It's so, like, yeah, we have a lot of people talking about, like, the relationships with their mom and with their daughters. But with everybody else, it's like, it's like, oh, I wish my mom was nicer to me. And then Mary's talking about it like, yeah, when there was the schism in my church and my mom gather a faction to try to seize control, even though in my grandmother's will, it was clearly stated that he was supposed to marry me, his granddaughter, and supersede power from my mother. Like, whatever Shakespearean shit is going down, it's just like, Jesus Christ. Very relatable.

Yeah, you were living in a. And a completely other universe. What is this shit? Like, fuck. That's funny as a contrast to how, like, Lisa sees herself as the different one within this group. Okay, let's talk about quotes or confessionals or any piece of dialogue that stood out to you. In the end of the explosive lunch that we get at the start,

I do really enjoy Angie coming out with. you do French fries, I do franchise. Yeah. Mostly because we get a great moment of Heather, who's really good at being like a spectator in scenes that she's also a part of, like kind of lapping it up and Mary next year, being like, what did she say? And Heather, like, repeats the punch.

Like she said, you do French fries. I do franchise. And Mary's like, oh, yeah, that was good. Yeah. That was a really fun bit for me. Yeah, I, again, that is like a great moment from, from Angie. I think we talked about how she's extremely funny, and that's just like a line that it felt like she had in her back pocket for like however long,

but she couldn't have because she had no idea that Lisa was going to launch into this attack on the number of franchises that she has. So yeah, I really, really love that. I also love that we're getting more development in terms of Lisa trying to position herself above everyone else, where everyone is giving her a hard time about not opening up and being vulnerable. And she just says, I do open up. I am vulnerable. I just grew up different than you guys. I also think a standout moment that I don't know what to make of in terms of quotes

was Heather talking about someone farting with their mouth open or whatever that line was. I didn't fully catch it. but yeah, just I, yeah, I don't know. I think it was Mary who specifically said like, or Mary, right. Yeah, there was their conversation between Mary Heather, but I think Mary was the one. He was like, yeah, it's like when somebody farts and he's like, oh, I had my mouth open. Like Heather was just talking about, I think, how like tastes and smell are kind of the same thing. And it just Mary went straight to tasting farts.

Okay, we've danced around. this a little bit. I want to just dive dive right in. What's your takeaway on the scene between Bronwyn and Muzzy? So Muzzy does suck, but it was a really interesting scene. You know, I

do, like, Bronwyn's kind of insistent trying to chip away at Muzzy's framing of what a mother should do by trying to, like, because she doesn't want to say that like she turned out bad, but

her best piece of evidence of why her mothering technique doesn't work is herself, Bronwyn. And that's kind of like the delicate game she's trying to do. Like when Rosi's criticizing the way Ronan parents, she says, like, that's not a sort of parenting I've ever seen work. And Bronlin's like, but did your way work? Like, did you stop me from getting pregnant at 18 or whatever? Like that.

But, and it's kind of, yeah, it's a delicate, dance for Brunner to play because she has to, she can't, like, she doesn't want Muzzy to say, like, oh, your child was going to go to child protective services or something. She will not stand for that. She's like, you know, I was going to take care of my child anyways. And, you know, she doesn't want to say, obviously, nobody does want to say that, like, oh, I was a failure. I fucked up. But she, but she wants to make it clear to her mom, like, your rigid ideas about how one should parent clearly aren't useful strategies. Like, you can't just say, like I, you can't imply. She doesn't directly say it. But you can't just imply. that I'm the fuck up and shield yourself and your beliefs from any criticism here. So that's one angle from which I thought that was a really interesting discussion. Yeah, I think that, I mean, I think to say that Muzzy Sucks is a complete understatement. She seems awful. She seems like one of the worst mother figures that we have seen across all franchises. And I don't think that I'm being too hyperbolic saying that because she just comes

across as like so mean and hateful of Bronwyn and you know her just like the biggest compliment that she is able to give Bronwyn is just because I don't say that I think you're wonderful doesn't mean I don't think it I just don't want you to think that you're wonderful. It's like it is such a like toxic energy that she gives off. I just like I don't know I was like shivering and had a physical reaction to this scene. And you're right, it is very interesting the fact that Bronwyn has to use herself as an example of, you know, Muzzy's parenting style not working. And I really like that early on in this episode.

We, it seems like we're maybe being set up to see a warmer side of Muzzy because we get that scene with between Bronwyn and Lisa where she says, how good it felt for her mom to say that she was hard on her. And like, that's what she's looking for. And then we get this confessional where she's really hard on herself saying, I just don't want to turn out. I don't want to be to Gwen what my mom is to me. And it feels like we might be,

you know, rounding the base and getting to see like the warm side of, of muzzy. And then we get the scene that is just like, Yeah, it is so toxic. I couldn't look away, but I also wanted it to end. I wanted to, like, get to my bowling league and just, you know, go get out of there. The fake bowling league is hilarious, though.

I love that her teenage kids are like, yeah, we have bowling every Wednesday. And she's like, I figured out a long time ago that she don't actually have a bowling league. And I'm like, yeah, we do. Bye, mom. We're going bowling. Yeah, no, it is. And that's like the only time that she really tries to defend her perspective, Muzzy, is when she's like, I just don't want you to think that you're so wonderful or that you're too good, which that's the only really kind of glimpse we get in her self-justification, which is, which seems to amount to like, I'm afraid that my daughter thinks she's better than me. So I have to make sure she doesn't think that. Yeah.

Okay. So let's let's talk strategy. Was there anything? in terms of the strategy, like any strategic decisions that stood out to you? We kind of got into it right off the bat, right? I mean, the big play is Angie going for Meredith. And then I think the kind of secondary, interesting play for me was Whitney going for Brittany going for kind of a bit player there to try to maybe peel her off of Lisa's side.

I think those were the two moves that stand out as things that could affect. the positioning over the next few episodes. Yeah, I think that what is most interesting to me is seeing where things go with Bronwyn and Lisa, whether this is actually something that is put to bed because that connection that they made, it does seem like there is something there that they can build an actual friendship on, but there's a lot of tension that is still there, even though they've put things to bed. So, like, that could really go either way. Another interesting thing to watch for me is like what's happening with Heather.

She seemed like she was going to be all in on Lisa's side and now seems very much in the other camp and trying to kind of walk that line a little bit still. So I'm interested to see what happens there. But like I said, Heather was still very both-sidesing things at lunch. She's the one that kind of disappointingly to me sort of disfused the situation by giving Lisa an out, right? Like, she, she kind of paused the proceedings to be like, oh, Lisa, you need to be vulnerable. After Lisa, I'd just been going on, like, kind of almost frothing at the melt attack mode. And then Lisa immediately picks up on it and is like, it is like, okay, I'm being vulnerable right now, puts her arms up in the air. Being vulnerable here, vulnerable moment.

And then like, you know, and then switches right to like, oh, I'd love you guys so much. And that's why this hurts me so much because I love you guys, which is like the classic way to get out of it. But I don't think she was aligning towards that kind of calming tensions things before Heather basically told her, like, this is what you need to do right now. And so I don't think, like Heather and Angie obviously had had like a strong moment, the previous episode. But I think we really see Heather still being very, very hesitant about being anti-Lisa and still, without being a Lisa surrogate, she she wants to kind of be seen as the person who is being fair. to Lisa. We see that in the hair salon too, right? We see Heather making attempts to be like, well, Angie, I think you're going too far there by pointing out that her hair is no shine when she dies that color. So I think Heather is still very invested in both sides in this situation,

which is too bad, I think. You'd like to see her pick aside? Yeah. Yeah, I would. I would. I think she's a little too wrapped up in being like seen as the reasonable level-headed kind of the narrator of the show. You know, she really wants to be the narrator of the show. And I think she sees that, that plus the fact that she likes sucking up to the most powerful people in the gang is kind of the thing that's holding her back a bit from really, from really getting her hands dirty and really playing strategically and taking a side.

So that's so, yeah, I do think that's a disappointment. Yeah, I think you're right. She's not getting her hands dirty. And she definitely is like both sidesing it a little bit. I think that it's actually adding to a lot of the dynamic that I appreciate about Heather this season, just because I don't really know what she is going to do from episode to episode. She's got her hands, like you said, she's got her hands in both sides.

She could really leverage either position for either side and cause a lot of chaos, whether that actually results in anything, whether she has the balls to like burn a bridge in order to cause chaos. I think that that remains to be seen. she might be too caught up in her image, like you said, of being this narrator, being this neutral force and trying to be the eyes, the show that she's not willing to burn down her relationship with Lisa in order to cause chaos and actually like leverage whatever she's got going with, with Lisa or the other side of the host. So I, I'm really eager to see how that progresses. Yeah, me too. She's somebody to watch, definitely.

Who do you think has made the most ground in terms of socially? Who do you think has made either a increase in their position or kind of fallen in this episode? Yeah, that's an interesting one for this episode because this episode seems a lot more, well, there's, you know, aftermath of the big blowout and there's kind of a bit of like kind of jockeying for allies. But who actually kind of changed their standing here? It's hard to say. Angie is the one who's pushing hardest, but I think we need to kind of wait to see how her Meredith play ends up running out before we can say whether she's actually gained or lost anything by doing that.

I think, I mean, Lisa looks a little better than she did at the end of the previous episode, both because she kind of managed to rein herself in to finish the dinner, and because she got to sit down with Bronwyn and kind of was able to to settle things down a bit for now, apparently. So I think things look a bit better for Lisa, just because they look so bad at the previous episode, there's kind of, it can only be a positive change in that sense. And I don't know.

I think, like, Whitney is still kind of a slow, a slow grower, like, just kind of slowly climbing up there from starting from a bad position, as we talked about in the first episode. She's been pretty kind of steely-eyed about figuring out how to how to kind of slowly gain allies without becoming too much of a target

and she obviously had an explosion against Lisa but rather than actually leaving the dinner, just kind of slinked back in and stop talking and which kind of saved it for I think a bit and and I think this this play with Brittany is

is pretty interesting and as I mentioned she's successfully managed to co-up the conversation around her business, away from it being something that's being used against her and towards it being a story point about personal growth. And so far, that seems to be working out for her, mostly because she's not centering it too much. I think if she insisted too much, she would be just giving ammunition to Lisa to use it against her. But I think by being like fairly low key so far, you know, that blow up over dinner aside being generally fairly low key, she's kind of

playing it kind of slow and strategic. So I would give a, I, I, I, I, I, I would point to her as somebody who is kind of pointing in the right direction, considering where their starting position was. Yeah. Whitney's a really interesting one because I don't know what she's got in mind. It seems like she's building something in her workshop, right? Like, the fact that she is kind of reaching across the floor to Brittany and to see what she can build

there is really interesting. It seems like there's intent behind this in order to like pair for something, presumably against Lisa, but like, who knows? It's a weird one. and I'm really interested to see what happens. I think that I don't see anyone really losing this episode. I don't see anyone really falling.

There seems like there's a lot of shifting. There's, you know, there's people like Angie who are really putting a lot out there, kind of tabling some bets here, and it'll be interesting to see how that plays out. But I think that Lisa, you're right, big gains here because of that sit down with Bronwyn. I think she has the potential to move forward within this group a lot more, like she's got a lot more options open now as a result of that lunch seemingly having ended like relatively cordially with Bronwyn. So I, yeah, I think that Lisa has actually been the one that has gained position here. I think they're probably right. Okay, let's,

let's talk about highlights. Any highlights that we haven't covered? Yeah, I think we covered the ground pretty well there. Yeah, I think we covered most of what I wanted to talk about as well. If you aren't already, follow us on Instagram and TikTok. We actually had a comment on one of the reals that we posted, or one of the TikToks that we posted. We put out a clip from our last episode where we're talking about this idea of Bronwyn being, you know, frozen in amber from the perspective of her father. And one of the comments on there before the last episode aired was that she also seems like she is frozen in amber from the perspective of her mother. And I think like that's a great call out because yeah, you know, that's clearly illustrated in this most recent episode that

yeah. Her mother still sees her as this, this, this failure that is stuck in this like one bad decision from her perspective that that she has made. That is a very good, observation about Bronwyn's mom, just by the way, which, like you mentioned, was something that kind of gets born out this episode. But it is interesting to see Broadway as, like, she stopped being her mom's project at the moment that she made, like, a decision that her mom, I super disagreed with her that went against her mom's belief. And that is interesting to see it as, like, maybe the reason why, why Muzzy doesn't blame herself for what Brondwin did, because she's like, at that moment you kind of stop being my daughter.

And also why she kind of sees her as still stuck in that moment, because the moment that she stopped being her daughter is the moment she stopped paying as much attention to her as a person. I really liked, leave us a comment. We'll talk about your perspective on our next episode. Dylan, do you want to give your stars for this episode? Because of all that fascinating stuff around Bronwyn and her family, she has to be on the list.

But I think I've given Bronwyn like my first star for like the first three episodes. So she's got to be number two this episode. Because number one, first star, it's got to be Angie. Great episode from Angie. Hysterical at every point. Just always animated, always funny. And then, of course, she brings out a big play at the end. And that could potentially shake everything up.

Activates the sleeper agent and just salivating to see how that plays out. So, Angie's got to be number one here. LeBron 2, third star, could go a lot of different ways. But let's give it to Lisa. She had a, she had a good line about picking up the product from Angie's store. She had, she pulled out of a tailspin a little bit. Still remains funny and intriguing. Let's give her a stick tap as well.

Yeah, I think that I'm going to give Bronwyn number one just because I think that this was her episode emotionally. That is what I am most invested in in terms of her overall character development. So I think that she's number one here. I'm not shy about giving her a first star again. But you're right. Angie, number two, she was hilarious this episode. She's doing a lot.

I think, you know, definitely deserving of a number one star as well. But Bronwyn is speaking to me right now. So, and then number three, you're right, there's so many options here. This is low-key, a really great episode for Whitney. I think the fact that we are seeing her set up for something. she's always making move socially. The fact that she's trying to pick up Brittany and do something here, I think that that is fascinating to watch.

But we also got a lot of storytelling, emotional storytelling about, you know, she's trying to forward this storyline about how she's emerging from the failure of her business. But she also spoke about what she was like prior to that, like who she was when she entered the show and called back to like the, like the very first episode where we are introduced with her as like this mom that has a poll in her house and how she's putting this this backup and she's rebuilding the the Whitney that came before, you know, CEO Whitney. So I really like that. I really like the connection that she is or the advice that she was giving to Brittany and trying to build like a connection with her. I think that

she was saying the right things and she was looking at Britney's situation. from a like a pretty emotionally intelligent perspective. The fact that she's saying seems to me that your daughter is giving you an opening here. And she is saying you need to prioritize what she needs over what Jared is saying and trying to like, you know, cut through the fog that Brittany is in. I think that there's a lot that Whitney was giving to this episode that I don't think she's getting enough attention for. so I want to give her my third star.

Nice. Okay, well, I think that about does it for this week. Dylan, do you want to let people know where they can find you? Yeah, if you look for Dylan Ferguson on Substack, I read a bit about movies there. Just this morning, I wrote something about one battle after another, the movie of the year. So you can check that out if you addressed it. Or also, since we're in October, I'll just mention that you can check out the back catalog of a podcast I used to do about horror movies called Mind Over Slash. splatter.

If you're in a mood to listen to people talk about horror movies and maybe pick up some recommendations for the spooky season, consider looking up mind over splatter. Awesome. Well, I am Craig Midwinter. You can just find me manning our Instagram and TikTok accounts at Bravo Outsider. Be sure to like and subscribe this video or podcast on whatever platform you're on. I think like less than 50% of the people that watch or listen to our stuff are subscribed. So if you're one of those people, hit the subscribe button right now.

That helps us out a ton, gets us in more ears and in front of more eyes. Until next week, go Blue Jays.