Breaking News from Pod Save America - Arrested NYC Official SLAMS Trump — and Calls Out Andrew Cuomo

Episode Date: June 18, 2025

NYC mayoral candidate Brad Lander joins Jon Lovett to discuss his arrest at an immigration court. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Joining us now, candidate for mayor of New York in the news right now because he was detained by federal agents for, it seems, the crime of having questions while someone was being arrested by federal ICE officials. Brad Lander, good to talk to you. Thanks so much for having me on. So let's start with this. How do you pronounce your job? And I just want a definitive answer because it's just how do you. you pronounce your current role? I say that I am the New York City controller. Thank you. Fucking thank you. There are too many people saying comptroller. All right. So, uh,

I agree. So how do I'm a proper pronunciation. Okay, great. Thank you. All right. Let's let's get to something more serious. Uh, uh, uh, so you were detained. Uh, first of all, why were you there and, And what is specifically so dangerous about the Trump administration targeting people showing up for these kinds of judicial proceedings? I mean, let's take one step back because I really do think there's a, you know, on the one hand, you know, Senator Padilla and Mayor Baraka and I all are being targeted because as Pam Bondi says, they're coming to liberate Democratic cities from their elected officials. that's one authoritarian move. At the same time, Trump is trying to deport millions of people to strike fear in the hearts of immigrant communities and keep eroding the rule of law.

So about three weeks ago, they changed tactics in immigration court, and the Department of Homeland Security started what's, quote-unquote, dismissing people's cases. We saw this first with a Bronx kid named Dylan Contreras. Dismiss sounds good, except what it actually means is you're going to be stripped of any status and subject to expedited removal and then grabbed by ICE agents in the elevator

lobby on your way out of the court building. So there's an organization called Immigrant Arc that operates a friend of the court program. And when this happened, they encourage more people to come down and observe the hearings, bear witness. And then if people have that happen and were stripped of their status, just to try to escort them out of the building. So I've done it for three weeks now. And five of the seven times, I was able to escort the individual or the family out of the building. And I can't tell you how good that felt. They thought they were going to be grabbed and detained, in one case, separated from their kids. And instead, we went in the elevator and got out of the building and they could go back to their lives. But yes, yesterday, twice. Instead, people got

grabbed. And then in one case, I did too. Now, in those previous cases, Is the escort preventing the removal, or was the removal not going to happen? Yeah, I honestly don't know the answer. You know, I actually joked about this. The first week, I got three, I walked out with three families, and I said, I don't know if they're just scared of the controller. The controller does come with an NYPD detail, and so I had an NYPD officer with me, and I thought maybe they just didn't want that conflict.

But obviously, yesterday, they did not mind the conflict. So it may just be that their list, they've got a lot. list of who they're going to remove. And so you're detained. Were you technically detained or arrested? Detained. Well, I mean, they put me in handcuffs and they took me to a detention room. They have not brought charges. The case is under review. And I was in detention for about four hours. DHS has now publicly accused you of obstructing, or I believe they used word impeding law enforcement. Were you obstructing or impeding law enforcement? Were you obstructing or impeding law enforcement. I mean, DHS, but out of statement saying I assaulted an ICE officer. Anyone can see on the

video. I don't lay hands on anyone. I don't assault anyone. I'm escorting him just as I did the other individuals and when they start coming for him asking to see a judicial warrant. Obviously, you didn't assault anybody. It's pretty chilling that they're accusing you of doing that. I guess the reason I'm asking this is because as you pointed out, like maybe that, you know, you're a prominent New York figure, you're an elected official. You have a detail with you. do you think that is why you were released? Do you think that is why you had previously not been bothered? Yeah, I mean, the honest answer is I really don't know.

I mean, I think, you know, Pam Bondi said that thing about trying to liberate cities from their democratically elected officials. I do think they're trying to make some examples at a road democracy. Whether that's what happened here, I just don't know. You know, I was there in this tradition of, you bear, witness, you try to escort, you know, sort of put your body on the line when you see somebody's rights being stripped away. And I don't know whether that just offends them so much or whether this was, you know, whether they specifically wanted to target me. Yeah, I mean, part of this is,

you know, we have a great tradition of protest in this country. And in past movements, public demonstrations, marches, examples of civil disobedience, sit-ins, etc. Those were kind of put on often by like the same groups, right? They were kind of seeing both tactics. And this is changing, but the march, the big no-king's marches, some of the big union marches we've seen,

those are being run by different organizations than the people kind of trying to figure out how to use, supporters to help actually impact whether these policies, these unjust policies can be implemented. And I'm wondering if you think for whoever is the next mayor of New York City, is it valuable? Would you like to see more ordinary New Yorkers without the badge, without the detail, showing up and kind of using civil disobedience to disrupt these tactics? Yes, absolutely. I was proud to be out at the No King's March over the weekend and marching with folks.

in the street, but a lot of people did say, what more can we do? And I, you know, Immigrant Arc, this friend of the court program, it's not specifically for elected officials, most of the volunteers that are there. I mean, there's of course some priests and rabbis and imams, but mostly it's just people who want to show up

and get a little training, bear witness, be an observer, be an escort. And I really do think, I mean, we think of the nonviolent tradition as more like the, form of civil disobedience where you sit down in the street and get arrested. But I think the version where you fill a courtroom, where you bear witness, where you try to be an escort and say, I'm not going to just stand by as people's rights are stripped away is a place that will go. And I was encouraged to see a couple of Congress members go down today to the court building. I hope

other elected officials will do it. And I really encourage Pod Save America listeners who love democracy to go sign up and do this too. So let's let's talk about the democracy unfolding in New York City right now. You've cross-endorsed quite a transition. You've cross-endorsed Zaron Mamdani. We talked to him last week. We've gone out to Cuomo. He doesn't seem to be talking anybody. In just the last couple of days, there's been a lot of controversy around anti-Semitism. He answered this question about the phrase, globalized. that in Tefatah, that led to a controversy, which he responded to movingly, I thought, today about both what it means for him to be potentially the first Muslim mayor of New York City,

how important he views anti-Semitism, some of the bigotry he's faced. But at the same time, you're a Jewish New Yorker in a city with more Jews than any city outside of Israel. Clearly, this is a political challenge. It's being stirred up by Cuomo, of course. But as somebody that now wants Mamdani to succeed, is there something that should be done, something he needs to say that he's not saying if you really want him to be able to achieve his agenda? Well, for starters, look, I'm running for mayor

and I would like people's first place votes and I'm encouraging people to rank Zoran second. And, you know, so, I mean, for now, you know, the agenda I'm hoping to bring to the city hall is mine. and I will say our partnership, our cross endorsement, you know, begins from the recognition that Andrew Cuomo should not be allowed anywhere near City Hall. And what he has done is grossly weaponized anti-Semitism

in the same way that when Donald Trump said Chuck Schumer wasn't Jewish or when Eric Adams is running on a stop anti-Semitism line. I mean, Cuomo went into an Upper West Side synagogue in a city where he hasn't lived for 25 years and accused not just Zoran, but also Adrian Adams, the black speaker of the city council, and me, the highest-ranking Jewish elected official in New York City government of anti-Semitism. It's like using Jews as pawns for his own political purposes, and calling it out is important. I mean, anti-Semitism is on the rise, and it's important to take it seriously and keep Jews safe as part of efforts to keep all New Yorkers safe.

But Cuomo is so transparent. using it in the debate last week. So they asked Zoran about what he would say to Jewish New Yorkers, and he gave an answer that I thought was very thoughtful. Cuomo thought he was going to get to pile on and, like, you know, hit Mahmdani for anti-Semitism. And the host, Errol Lewis, instead asked him, it's been reported you've never been to a mosque. What do you have to say to Muslim New Yorkers?

And Cuomo just sputtered because it's clear he has never been to a mosque, and he just kind of lied and sputtered about it. So, you know, I'm starting from that. Like, I'm a proud Jew. I want this city to be a safe place to raise my kids and everybody else. And, you know, look, I don't, you know, when I hear the phrase globalize the Intifada, I say to people, I'm telling you, all I can hear right now is some Jews were killed in D.C. And there was a flamethrower in Boulder.

And maybe you don't mean to be saying it's open season on Jews everywhere in the world. But that's what I hear. and I'd like to hear that from other people as well. At the same time, you know, though I am a strong believer in the vision of Israel as a Jewish and democratic state, I hate what the war the Netanyahu government is conducting in Gaza. I have spoken up many times for a ceasefire, for aid getting in there for an end to the occupation of the West Bank and Gaza for the human rights of Palestinians. And like, it's not the mayor of New York City's job, thank God, to try to achieve. safety and, you know, mutual self-determination between Israelis and Palestinians, but it is the mayor's job

to show up and say, we're going to bring people together. And yes, I believe Zoran Mamdani is serious about that, or I would not have crossed him. No, I feel conflicted even about raising it, because I see it as a kind of political cudgel. The job of mayor is not to set Middle East policy. But then I also think if you're somebody that wants to see, whether it's you, Mamdani, progressive win, like this is, you know, at a time when chaos in the Middle East is going to be salient in people's minds, especially a lot of Jewish voters. Like, I just, I worry that, hey, this is a, there's something about maybe beyond just the unfairness of the attack itself. What you said just made sense. There was something clear to me about what you just said.

I mean, I'll say one more, one more sentence here. I mean, look, you know, I have a really, you know, these are, you know, issues I've cared about passionately my, my whole life. And people can look my stuff up on them. And, and I hope people, rank me and be inspired by my point of view. But just once more on the debate, you know, you had one, you know, you had, you know, Zoran tried hard to speak to the concerns of Jewish New Yorkers. I do not agree with him on Israel and Palestine on every issue, and that's appropriate. Cuomo did not try one iota to speak to Muslim New Yorkers or signal that he will look to bring people together. He's just, you know, now I will say, you know, it's funny, he's the one who's

been sued for anti-Semitic discrimination and was reported to have used a slur to refer to the Jewish holiday of Sukkot. I will say, I don't know whether Andrew Cuomo is anti-Semitic or whether he just treats everyone that way. Yeah, it's sort of like, you know, he's, he's an asshole. So, you know, to that point, you know, Cuomo has refused to talk to a lot of the press. Seems like he's banking on his reputation a little bit. And I've seen a lot of attacks that are completely fair about how, what a terrible thing it would be. to elect somebody who has a sexual harassment, charges against him or allegations against them,

somebody who shifted MTA money up to the ski resorts upstate, what happened with the nursing homes when he was governor. But there's something like about whether he'll run for president. But he has an affordable housing plan. He has some policy proposals that are probably kind of pretty popular, right? If you just looked at his agenda, you'd say, all right, that's an agenda that kind of makes sense to a lot of New Yorkers. Just going forward, can you just attack why you think he will fail on his own terms?

Absolutely. I mean, at the core, it seems to me, he is just someone who's always and only in it for himself. Like, he doesn't, I'm running for mayor because I love New York City and I want to help solve its problems. And he is running for mayor because he loves Andrew Cuomo and wants to be redeemed for his sins, and he doesn't even look like he likes New York City. It looks like he kind of has contempt for it. He looks miserable. He looks miserable. He really does. It's crazy. I mean, so, and think about who will work for him and who won't work for him. You know, he ran Andy Biford, who was probably the best,

you know, big city transit leader out of town by bullying him. He's an abusive boss, so to think about who will be his school chancellor or his police commissioner or his budget director. it's a small bunker mentality all about defending Andrew Cuomo. It will, you know, like, and the fact that he never takes responsibility, more young women will be sexually harassed at City Hall if he is mayor. There will be new corruption scandals because that is what they're in it for. And there's just no reason to believe a good team will be on the field to actually protect tenants and build affordable housing

and make our schools run better and expand child. care and get the garbage picked up well. And when something is brought to his attention because it's going to become like a problem for him, then like he'll turn to it and try to crush some people in a visible display. But that's not how you could run a city like New York with 300,000 teachers and cops and firefighters and school crossing guards and contractors out there every day will be a badly run city. See, that to me, that's like the, that is the best answer I have heard that is like a substantive critique of the connection between Andrew Cuomo's kind of personality and why he'll fail as governor. Does it kill you a little bit?

You're this progressive guy. All right. You have a great record. You're running on a progressive platform. And this 33-year-old state assemblyment is captivating the imagination of New Yorkers. And here you are crunching the numbers all these years with your. fucking visor on getting into the details. It kills you a little bit. Get those glasses on. It's got to kill you a little bit. It's got to bother you a little bit. I mean, I will say over the last week,

I have had a great chance to present myself, you know, to people. The New York Times, would I have like them to do an endorsement? Of course, I would like have liked them to do an endorsement. But read that opinion panel. It says I know how to run a city and have taken on some tough fights. I love being on the debate stage last week and getting to throw some good punches and bringing one of those nursing home families and trying to make Andrew Cuomo apologize. Like that's kind of how I do things. I'm an organizer. I try to build coalitions. I actually loved the cross endorsement with Zoran. I thought it showed a kind of politics that says it's not just about either of us individually. We've got a vision for this city that is more

affordable and safer and brings people together. It doesn't make room for creeps like that. It got a really nice response. And sure, there are some of the tensions that you spoke about. But way more than that, people said, couldn't we have more of this in our politics of people trying to see the city something bigger? And then, yeah, yesterday, I mean, I went down there just to try to help folks get out of the building. But I feel like I got the chance to show people. Here's the kind of leader that I will be. And I don't know if you get to read as or Klein's piece today, but he starts it by saying, you know, until yesterday, Bradlander was having a hard time getting people to pay attention. I can't ask for any more than for people

to see, you know, what I did yesterday, what kind of mayor I will be what I've been able to show people over the last week. And that's what elections are for. You know, you put yourself out there. It is true. Like, I am not the best on TikTok, all my daughter's videos. But, You know, my daughter, if you look, every video on my platform that is highly ranked is actually my daughter and not me. And she's great, but I'll run the city better. Last question. You told the times you don't get your bagel toasted. Zoran does get his bagel toasted.

Andrew Cuomo orders an English muffin nuts. Anything about the cross endorsement on the toasted on toasted divide? I will be glad to introduce Zoran to the best places to get sliced locks and, you know, good bagels and good beaulies. It's fun to run for mayor because the city is like, you know, when they asked Andrew Cuomone, he couldn't remember what mosque he had been to. For Eid, I went to this mosque in the Bronx where everyone is from Nigeria and Ghana. And they were so excited to meet me and talk to me. So, yes, you know, we know our own foods and our own traditions best. and it's pretty fun to get to share them with other people.

I got to say thank you to you guys for all the love you showed Adi Barkin over the years. One of my dearest, dearest friends. Rachel and the kids are going to be in New York next week leafleting for me on Election Day. And when Rachel texted me yesterday to say Adi would be proud of you. Boy, that was the voice that mattered the most in my head. Wow, yeah. Well, Adi Barkin, incredible leader. health care. So I'm sure that means a lot. And thank you for saying that. Unfortunately,

I have no future in New York politics once I told people, tell people that my order is often. Tuna on cinnamon raisin. Tuna on cinnamon raisin. Don't knock until you tried it in New York. I had a fifth grade, a Jewish fifth grade teacher whose big thing was tuna salad on pumpernickel. So try that next time. That's interesting. I think that's a great order. New York City's controller. Brad Lander. Thank you so much. Really good talking to you. Really appreciate it. I'm honored to talk to you. Thank you.