Breaking News from Pod Save America - Bernie Sanders on Abdul El-Sayed's Huge Win, DSA and AI

Episode Date: August 6, 2026

Abdul El-Sayed wins Michigan's democratic Senate nomination, defeating Rep. Haley Stevens by one point after a heated campaign about the future of the Democratic party. Senator Bernie Sanders, who endorsed El-Sayd's campaign on the day of its launch, talks to Jon about the future of the progressive movement. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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I saw that you described Abdul's primary win as the most extraordinary victory you can think of in modern American politics. What makes you think that? I'll tell you why. And you tell me what you think. Here is a guy who took on the entire Democratic establishment in Michigan, okay,

took on the entire national democratic establishment, okay, And then took on $70 million of SuperPAC and outside funding, about 30 million of it coming from APEC. Now, help me out here. You know something about these things. Have you ever heard of a candidate in a major race getting outspent, nine to one, taken on the entire establishment and winning?

No, not in a primary like that. Now we now he's got to win the general, though. Then it would really be, then it would really be extraordinary. All right. But all that I'm saying, you ask me, I cannot recall somebody having done that. So it was an extraordinary victory. And in addition, in Michigan last night, we won two congressional races. You know, Donovan McKinney beat an incumbent in Detroit will be the next congressman.

Will Lawrence won in Lansing, a strong victory. I think he stands a good chance to win in November as well. It ended up being a really close race, a duel won by about a point. What does the close finish tell you about where Democratic voters are right now, especially, you know, the 720,000 or so who voted for Haley Stevens? Well, John, it certainly was a close race. I was up to 3 o'clock or 4 o'clock in the morning. So if I fall asleep, don't take it personally. But you have to understand that $70 million was spent against this guy.

So want to rephrase the question and say if it was a fair fight. financially, and there was no spending difference. How many points would he have won? By 10, 20 points? Maybe. I don't know. But all in all, I think it was an extraordinary victory. I think the message right now, and I think Haley Stevens was very gracious in a concession

speech, and she was exactly right. We understand that we have the most dangerous president in the modern history, not the modern, in the history of the United States, and we have got to elect Democrats, Democratic control of the Senate and the House. And we've all got to work together to make that happen. And I think I would suspect that the overwhelming majority of the people who voted for Hellie Stevens understand that. Looking at the map, Abdul dominated in college towns, highly educated areas. He didn't do as well in sort of the working class city and blue collar suburbs.

And this has been a pattern with more progressive candidates in Democratic primaries, with, I think, your presidential races being the notable exception that I can think of. Why do you think more economically populist candidates aren't doing as well with working class voters than more moderate establishment candidates? I think, and again, let's remember that what last night was a pattern is consistent with what we have seen all over this country, by the way, in the last year from Mondani's victory in New York City to Melats, Kiros' victory in Colorado, and a lot in. between. Progressives are winning, John, and we're winning for a lot of reasons, were often winning, as was the case last night, with a huge turnout. I think, correct me if I'm wrong, that was a record-breaking turnout in Michigan Democratic primary? Yes, yeah. It was. That didn't happen by accident. It happened because, among other things, Abdul was able to bring out a lot of young people who previously did not get involved in the political process,

and a lot of people have kind of given up on politics. But I have absolute confidence that Abdul's message of economic justice, of demanding the billionaires pay their fair share of taxes, and I'll tell you something else, this guy's a doctor. And I desperately need them in the U.S. Senate to help me and others move toward a Medicare for all single payer program. I think it's going to resonate all over Michigan, whether a Democrat, Republican, or independent. Do you think it's harder to reach working class voters with that member? Do you think that people are busy and they're not paying as close attention to politics? Like what do you, how do you think about that? And you got, you know, you got the internet phenomenon and algorithms where people see what they want to see and what they have seen yesterday.

So it's hard to break through that. But what has excited me about Abdul's campaign, and again, Menomni did it in New York, others have done it, is he has, he put thousands and thousands of people out on the street. And one of the differences drawn between our campaigns and establishment democratic campaigns, they always have more money than we do. They hire great consultants, they do good 30 second ads. We put people out on the street knocking on doors.

And I think in Abdul's case in Michigan, we're gonna have to have thousands and thousands of people knocking on doors, explaining to Republicans, do you really think it's a good idea? Do you have tax breaks, the billionaires, and cut back on health care? care and education, et cetera, et cetera. So it's an enormous amount of work to be done.

It's going to be done in a grassroots way. I think we win. So as you look to the fall, what is, you know, Abdul's probably going to face even more money than he did in the primary. It's obviously a tougher electorate. What's one thing he has to do, and his campaign has to do, that they haven't done yet? I think we still have more work to be done within the African American community. maybe the women's community, but there are great leaders in the state of Michigan and

all over this country who I think will help us make that happen. Pod Save America Breaking News is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. With everyday interactions becoming increasingly impersonal, someone going just one extra step can be huge, like when my doctor takes the time to call me with test results instead of sending them electronically. They came back positive for gay. It makes me feel like a human being again. If you're hiring, great candidates can also go the extra step and tell you why they're interested in your job on ZipRecruiter as a way to stand out from others in the pool.

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ZipRecruiter, meet your match on ZipRecruiter. So you've endorsed a lot of progressive candidates like Abdul de Cycle. You mentioned a few others who won last night. There are also a lot of progressive candidates, DSA candidates running, who you haven't endorsed. How do you decide which progressive candidates get your endorsement and which don't? Well, you know, we're not, you know, some kind of huge machine here. so we have to be, kind of have to pick and choose. One of the things that people don't know

is that we have also endorsed dozens and dozens and dozen what we call down-ballot candidates. People are running for school boards, city council, state legislature, mayor in small towns. And that, in a sense, becomes, if you like, the Farm Club, the future leaders of America, some great people in legislature right now that we've helped get elected.

And we have trained, by the way. We have programs that say, hey, you want to run for office? This is how you send that a press release. This is how you do social media, et cetera, et cetera. But we have, you know, limited resources. So what we do is, hey, what do you stand for? What do you stand for?

If you are a moderate, liberal-type Democrat, that's great. There are other people who will support you. That's not us. Do you support Medicare for all, which is more or less for us, I think, if you would ask me if there's one litmus test, probably Medicare for all would be if. Do you support attacks on billionaires? Are you prepared to take on the oligarchs?

What is your view about the extremist government in Israel? So you need that information, but that's not enough. Then you have to say, look, you can, and I have seen this, I've experienced this. People have really, they're really smart, they have great answers to everything. They can't run a campaign. You know, it's not easy putting together a campaign. And Abdul did it, by the way. Not everybody can do it.

So you gotta say, all right, what's the nature of your campaign? How many volunteers do you have? We don't have any. You're raising any money? No, we're not. Okay, well, that's nice. Have a nice day. You're a great guy, but we're not going to support you. So those are some of the things that we look at. I noticed you haven't yet endorsed in the Wisconsin governor's race. What's your thinking there and might you endorse? I don't think so. I met Francesca a couple of years ago. I was in Wisconsin, and it seems very, very nice. But again, this is a race I just am not that familiar with. We have not gotten involved in many governors. race. I think we did one in Maine with Troy Jackson. You know, obviously my major concern right now is seeing that we have a Senate and a House that is going to stand up to Trump. That's really where my focus is. So as of now, we have not been involved in that race. So your brand of progressive

politics has always been focused on the material needs of working class people. And I would say that to the extent that you've broken from Democratic Party policy, it's usually around economic issues, health care, et cetera. There are some DSA candidates today, you know, including some who've won their primaries this cycle, who've also talked about abolishing prisons, defunding or even abolishing the police, abolishing borders. You've never been for any of that. Are you worried that taking those positions, which are unpopular with most voters and even most Democrats, sort of hurt the movement that you've worked really hard to build? The first ever, All-Electric 26th Subaru Seeker is the EV for the trail obsessed, with up to 444 kilometers on a full charge and DC fast charging,

from 10 to 80% in about 30 minutes in ideal conditions. Plus, ample ground clearance and symmetrical all-wheel drive make the 2026 Trail Seeker the most capable EV Subaru has ever built. Test drive it at your local Subaru dealer or visit suboru.ca. Well, you know, look, people have different views and what you know as well as I do, that the right wing, that's their job, right? They will take what one person said and put $80 billion of TV ads on it and make it claim every Democrats supports that. No serious person that I know who is running for office believes in, quote-unquote, defunding the police.

I was a mayor for eight years. I worked very closely with cops. They have a very difficult job. Do we need police reform? Do we need to get rid of racism within police departments? Absolutely. Are there jobs that other people can be doing in terms of mental? health, drug addiction, then outfalls on a cop's shoulders. Yeah, I think we should look at that.

But nobody I know believes in defunding the police in terms of doing away with prisons. I hope the day comes. I hope the day comes when we don't lead the world and the number of people who are in cursory. That speaks very poorly of our society. But does that mean that there should not be dangerous people who should be behind bars? Of course, everybody agrees with that. Open borders, No, most of us believe in comprehensive immigration reform, not opening up all the borders. But a lot of this stuff, as you well know, is what the right wing plays on and multiplies on Fox, you know, 10 times a day and through their ads. But most of the serious candidates that I know and support do not support those things.

You've made a really compelling case that the party, Democratic Party, can't just be anti-Trump, that we have to be for something. On the other hand, you never want to promise voters things that you can't actually get done. And I think about this just in terms of the next two years in this cycle, right? So a bunch of Democrats wouldn't say everything goes well and we take Congress. Trump's still president for two years. What do you think Democratic candidates running today can realistically promise voters in terms of a Democratic Congress the next two years? Tom, I would look at, that's a good question that you've raised.

I would look at it a little bit differently. Okay. I would not start off by saying, Donald Trump is president. You know, he probably veto any serious and good piece of legislation, therefore we can't bring it up. That's not the way I look at it. All right, I look at it from the position of,

and let me be very clear, you may agree with me, you may not. I think the system is horrifically broken, in many ways we're on a Titanic right now. Every place you look, whether it's health care, whether it's transportation, whether it's education, whether it's a corrupt campaign finance system, whether it is oligarchy and massive income and wealth inequality,

whether it is climate change. I mean, I can go on and on. It's scary stuff. I mean, we're living in really crazy times. And then on top of that, you've got Donald Trump as president who does everything, you know, does the wrong things every single day. So I think the first thing you do, John, and what my politics is about is to be honest with people.

You say, I don't start, what can you do? What are the problems facing? Are you, all right? You're worried that your kid can't afford to go to college? We're the richest country on earth. What should we do? Did God determine that public education ends in the 12th grade? Can we make public colleges and universities tuition free?

Do you think that zero or four is important for a kid's development? Of course you do. Should we have universal and free childcare so that all families can enjoy? Yeah, you can. Oh, Bernie, that's a great idea. How are you going to pay for it? Well, okay, that's another issue. Maybe we don't, maybe we demand that large corporations and the wealthiest people stop paying their fair share of taxes.

Maybe we don't spend $1.1 trillion on the military. But this is what I believe, John, and it really is at the heart of my politics. You got to deal with where people are at. They are hurting. They are giving up on democracy in many cases because they don't see government do anything for them. So what my strategy would be to answer your question is, is if I had the power and I have some power, I will say to the Democrats,

you gain control of the House, you gain control of the Senate, tell you what you're going to do. In the first two, three, four months, you're going to pass Medicare for all. And if Mr. Trump wants to veto it, let him. And we're going to explain to the American people

why he vetoed it. And we're going to lower prescription drug costs to the price that other countries or other world are paying. He's going to veto that, five. to raise the minimum wage. We're going to raise taxes on billionaires. Let Mr. Trump say no. And when he says, though, we have transformed politics because the next time round we'll win a landslide victory. That's my view of politics.

Looking ahead to 2008, I mean, you've been so outspoken on AI, and it's clearly going to be a huge issue, not just in this election, but again, in 2008, when we actually have a presidential race, what do you hope to hear from Democratic candidates and the Democratic Party in terms of how we handle artificial intelligence? John, there are easy answers and there are hard ones. And I got to tell you, of all of the issues out there, this one, you know, why you can't sleep at night, this is one of them. Now, maybe I'm crazy, and it may well be. Look, I, first of all, we start up with the assumption is nobody knows what's going to happen, right? You don't, I don't, nobody does. You know, Elon Musk doesn't know, Nobody knows.

Here is my nightmare. This is what I worry about. You're looking what I think we can agree on as the most transformational technology in the history of humanity. It's gonna make the industrial revolution seem like a piece of cake. This stuff is moving quickly in every aspect of our society.

How many millions of jobs will be lost? I don't know. What happens to the work? You're a 50-year-old truck driver, and now you've got to drive this vehicle taking your job? What happens to you? You're a kid graduating college?

There's no entry-level job. What happens to you? You're a lawyer. You know, a firm no longer need you. What happens to you? So economically, I worry about it. I worry about it also, and I say all these things,

and the reason I am fighting these fights is I don't have all the answers, but somebody got to start this discussion and talk about it. All right, democracy. All right? Tomorrow there will probably be some kind of deep fake of me on your program

saying how much I love Donald Trump and what a great job he is, right? Yeah, right. All right. So, has that happened to you? Not yet. I'm waiting for it. Yeah, it'll happen. All right.

So you're at a moment where people look at the Internet. We don't know truth from fiction, right? You really don't. You've seen those deep fakes, right? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. All right. So if a day before the elections, and you saw what happened to this guy, Thomas Massey,

where it was alleged they had a video of him walking into a hotel room with two young congresswoman, right? Totally why? Did older people in Kentucky believe it? Some did. How do you deal with that

and protect democracy? How and what worries me very much? Reading scores for our kids is in decline, you know that? Writing capabilities, cognitive capabilities. Kids are addicted to screens. How do you deal with that?

Recently, we've seen instances of AI escaping human control. I talked to a Nobel Prize winner who thinks that as AI becomes smarter than human beings, we could face an existential threat. All right? These are huge issues. We need to slow it down. That's the first thing we need to do. Mr. Musk cannot run the world and his friends.

So that's what I worry about. Same. It's one of the things that keeps me up at night for sure. And especially having two young boys who are going through the education system. You want to make sure they are trained for actual jobs that are going to exist out there and not just looking at their screens. Senator Sanders, thank you, as always, for joining Pod Save America. I really appreciate the time.

Well, thank you, John. Keep up the great work. Thanks. You too. Take care.