Bulwark Takes - “Arrest Me, Tough Guy!” Gov Newsom Punches Back on Trump Admin’s Threats

Episode Date: June 9, 2025

Tim Miller and Sam Stein talk California Governor Gavin Newsom’s forceful response to Donald Trump and Tom Homan’s threats and deployment of the National Guard on anti-ICE protesters in Los Angeles, and how Democratic lawmakers can learn from his leadership at this defining moment.

Hey guys, Tim Miller from The Bullwork here with managing editor Sam Stein. We have rolling coverage here of everything going on in Los Angeles. We've had people much more legally astute than me and much more wise than me and Bill Kristol talking about all the various complications with that kerfuffle. I wanted to do a little politics with Sam Stein and focus in on the response from the California governor, Gavin Newsom, who has been, to my taste, kind of unleashed Gavin here in the last 24 hours, going after the administration. Also some pretty tough words from some of the more violent elements of the protests. I want to play a couple of clips and get your reaction, but before that, do you have any

top line thoughts on how Gavin's been handling, you know, this confrontation with the White House? I have two thoughts. One is, it's a difficult situation to be in. But I think some of this has is a little bit more than just what's happening with respect to the ice raids. This has been building up for a while. So I'll get into that in a little bit, but two is don't ever downplay your legal capacity and your ability to do that. I appreciate that. And let me tell you, the more time I spend around lawyers,

the more time I realize most of them are faking it till they make it too. And then I'm pretty much on the same turf. So I appreciate that. Just throw out some like fancy Latin terms, you know, promissory estoppel, and you sound like you. And I took two years of Latin. Shout out Jim Roderick King. Okay. I want to play two clips

for you of Gavin going after the White House, and then we'll talk about how he's addressing the protest too. So the first clip, Tom Homan, I guess, suggested that he might Arrestable because of his behavior unclear exactly what that was Well, the Trump administration take action against these public officials who are threatening ICE agents with resistance absolutely, I think Pam Bondi and the Department of Justice looking at that and here is a Nuisance response to home acts has been here 10 years the fear The horror the hell is this guy come after me arrest me Let's just get it over with tough guy You know, I don't give a damn but I care about my community

I care about this community the hell are they doing these guys need to grow up. They need to stop and We need to push back and I'm sorry to be so clear, but that kind of bloviating is exhausting. So Tom, arrest me. Let's go. You can kind of see the blood running through his veins there. I like that. I don't know about the apology for being so clear, but besides that, you know, that's just a figure skating judge note.

But this is, I do think that a lot of folks out there, myself included, want this from Democrats and it's been missing from some. 100%. Like when you watch that, you're like, finally, like some passion about like this whole situation. And honestly, I think the frame is the right one, which is like, I can take it. I'm a governor. Like, I'll be fine. I have wealth. Yeah, arrest me, like go for it. Like, but take me and leave them alone. I think that's a really powerful message now again, I mean this is I guess I'll just get into it like

California's been on the Receive the receiving end of all this stuff. So it started with the fires in the palisades They have not put out federal disaster relief for that then Trump comes in and he's like, oh look I unleashed this river flow down to LA and quelled the fires and he almost flooded a bunch of communities if not for some intervention at the end. I mean, that's ridiculous. Now they're going to threatening to withhold all federal dollars to the state. And then when you some response by saying if you're

going to do that, like we're not going to pay federal taxes, like what the hell we're a feeder state. And then Scott Besson's like, Oh, you'll be arrested for tax evasion, which may be true, but like they're just picking on the guy. They're picking on the state. You have people like Stephen Miller out there being like Californians a hellhole, which it's not. I mean, come on.

It's ridiculous. And so I think at a certain point in time, if you're new to me, like, you know what? Fuck this shit. Like let's get on with it because appeasing this person trying to work with this person and in the MSNBC interview, he did say he had a 20 minute talk with Trump a phone conversation over the last couple days with Trump. Clearly that's not working. Right. So it says he was lying to during the call. You know, he just says he was lied to during the call.

You know, I think that's right. Look, I didn't make sense to me. Maybe there was a rationale after Trump won. A lot of Democrats were kind of on their back heels. They're thinking, okay, we must've missed something. You know, I know a lot of Democrats out there among the elected class and the voters, um, who like, like didn't really, we're surprised. Like, didn't like he won the popular vote, didn't see it coming. Like, like we might need to totally change how we deal with him and how

we deal with his voters and stuff. And so, uh, you know, I, I always felt that was a wrong instinct, but it was rational. I understood it. You know, but we're getting to this point where Gavin now six months in after that whole history you talked about of what we're seeing in California and his dealings with them. And it's like, like these guys are only going to respond to our just to aggressive pushback and to strength, not dealing with them. And I think obviously every case is unique, but time and again, what you see is institutions

that acquiesce turn around and then they're targeted again. Like look at Columbia University. It's not obviously the same thing, but they, they did a huge amount of internal restructuring to make sure that they weren't on Trump's bad side. They were at risk of $400 million in federal funding being pulled. Just last week, the Department of Education says, oh, you might have to pull your accreditation. It's like, what was the point of acquiescing? Now, there are cases where it does work, but even then it's sort of iffy. Like Gretchen Whitmer is another good example.

Michigan is much different than California. Trump cares about Michigan much more than California. He realizes it's a state he can't really afford to lose, but whatever. So she goes in there and she makes nice with him. She gets, uh, some benefits from, uh, him in terms of this, uh, base that is in Michigan, but then the other day he's asked about, would you pardon the people who would have potentially assassinated the governor? He's like, I'm looking into it.

What the fuck? Uh, so, you know, I just think time, we see it over and over and over again. And you could, if you're governing have to make these difficult calculations. I get it. It's hard. But I think for Newsom at this point, it's like you came into our city, you provoke this stuff by going at, you know, people in Home Depot trying to like go about and do their jobs, they naturally are going to respond. They're not just going to roll over and take it. I mean, that's what the Wall Street Journal said. What did you expect? And now you're going to make it worse.

So I think he's just fed up with this. One more clip of him going out to the administration, this time talking about Pete Hegseth, who obviously was saying that we've got 500 Marines ready to be on call to go into LA. Let's listen to Gavin talking to Brian Tyler Cohen about that. Do you have any confidence that Pete Hegseth will be as principled as Mark Esper was? Pete Hegseth's a joke.

He's a joke. Everybody knows it's so in over his head. What an embarrassment. That's this guy's weakness masquerading as strength. I don't even know he masquerades as strength. I'm in serious moment. I mean, serious moment. I mean, this Hooman guy, these guys, it's just, it's the band of Mitzvahs.

Yeah. It's, I mean, it really is. This is serious. The people's lives are at stake. Reputation of this country's at stake. Great American cities and states. It's not just, this is a preview for things to come. This isn't about LA, per se.

It's about us today. It's about you, everyone watching tomorrow. I promise you. LA per se. It's about us today. It's about you, everyone watching tomorrow. I promise you. I mean, this guy's unhinged. Donald Trump is unhinged right now. And this is just another proof point of that. Did he say Hooman? Hooman. I liked that. Intentionally mispronouncing the names is good, I think. I had Ram on that speaking. He was pronouncing them. Perfective nut lick.

Alan. Alan Musk. Again, I don't really have much more to add to what we said to the previous clip. It's just a breath of fresh air. It's like this is the fight. He should take on this fight and he needs to and it's correct for him to do this. The only thing I would add, and this is not in any way, shape, or form an insult or disrespect to Brian, who I think does a really good show and obviously is a big audience. But I do think there's a little bit of preaching to the choir element here. And I think Newsome is very good. In fact, we've seen it at going into like, you know, the lion's den, in this case, usually Fox News. But I think there is some value to that because there's clearly two very disparate conversations happening right now.

And you could just see it. Some people who are just like, California is a hellhole. The cities are ablaze. And it's like people in California and elsewhere, actually like 99% of the city just went and got their avocado toast and went about their business. And you're way overstating things. And so I just think we need to pierce these bubbles a little bit more. I agree with that.

Though I think that BTC's question about the Esper, it is, it's a key point, you know, it's preaching the choir, but it's a key point, the gap between Esper and Hegseth. It's the key point. Esper, I hate to remind people, Esper wrote about the fact that Trump asked him about shooting protesters during the Black Lives Matter protests outside the White House. I can't imagine Pete Hegseth being like, actually, Mr. President, that would be a step too far. I mean, could you? Yeah, no, of course not. The other key point here, it's something I hadn't realized because

I, I make sense. Once I was reminded of it, you just don't kind of think about it in these terms because we haven't had to think about it in these terms before Donald Trump. But the last time the fed sent in a national guard over the opposition of the state's governor was Selma, Alabama. And it's a big fucking deal. That seems like an arcane point a little bit, but it's a big deal that they would do it over Newsom's head. And I think it's another reason why his rage is particularly called for here. So I've been thinking about this.

I mean, it's not a firm conviction of mine, but I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility that this does backfire a little bit on Trump. If it goes to a place where it could go. I don't think people necessarily are all that comfortable with the specter of the US military, or in this case, the National Guard firing canisters on fellow citizens or arresting fellow citizens or beating up fellow citizens. Yes, of course, optically and politically, I think right now there's probably advantages for Trump and you get these images of dudes in motorcycles with Mexican flags and there's fires everywhere and way Mo's are and all that shit in the masks.

And yeah, that's not great. No one's going to argue that that's great, but I do think there is a real obvious element, uh, where this could end up in overreach, which brings me to back to the Democrats. And I think it's great that Newsom's out there making this point and doing his thing, but like the, the party's not in a this point and doing his thing. But like, the party's not in a great spot right now, honestly, and it's becoming very apparent in these moments. In that you have leadership that's kind of torn about how much to lean in on this stuff

and still a bit timid about this stuff. You look at Chuck Schumer's statement, and it's all like, Oh, this is a distraction, don't get baited into it. And maybe that's true. But like, the party needs to be unified in terms of what it's saying with respect to these things. And over the weekend, as all this was transpiring and Nusim is fighting for his life and all that stuff, like the DNC is embroiled in the pettiest of bullshit, like controversies where, you know, the leaked audio from the chair was worried about being undermined by David Hogg and everyone's accusing David Hogg of leaking by controversies where, you know, the leaked audio from the chair was worried about being undermined by David Hogg and everyone's accusing David Hogg of

leaking text messages. And I know people think this is a distraction in a side show. Or maybe it is, but I mean, my God, it's like a functioning DNC would be kind of helpful right now, I think. Yeah. Just maybe a little bit. Uh, certainly. This is me and the glaciers and argument

about this last week. And this is like one of my firmest convictions that goes against what sort of the conventional wisdom is on what Democrats should do. The distraction, it's not correct. Trump is doing this stuff as a distraction from this other thing. Like the corruption of Trump and the making money and the passing the big, beautiful bill is the real story and he's going after protesters in the street to distract people from this other story. The distraction is the issue with Trump. This is the core issue with Trump and he is going to inflame people because it's what he cares about and it's what people are going to care about. Okay. And so like this idea that, that you can Jedi mind trick the public into not

caring about Donald Trump's provocations. If only you go on meet the press and pivot back to the Medicaid cuts. It's just wrong. It's just wrong. Like that you can say Medicaid cuts as much as you want and they should talk about that. And that is not going to change the fact that at a dinner table, you know, in any city across the country, people are going to be more likely to talk about the protests and the National Guard and all that stuff. And so you have to have a clear message that addresses that issue. You can't just be like, Oh, and I will pivot back now. Like, it doesn't work. It works on talk shows, but it doesn't work with people. Yeah, no shit. It's like, well, I'm surprised that Glacies took the other side of that.

But I mean, I guess the other side of that is what most people, most Democrats think. It seems crazy to me. I mean, I think there are probably some cases where he does try to distract like but those those are so obvious so like the other week I Was after the Elon fight I believe but he was like I'm gonna throw out like three executive orders tonight One of which is like we're gonna study Biden's auto pen. It's like That one that one seems pretty manufactured. But um, but immigration is like not a distraction for this man It's it's the prize. This is like one of this and terrorists are probably like the things he cares about the

most and, and sure. Like Medicaid cuts are probably more fertile ground for Democrats and have fun. Go at it. Do both. You can't avoid these types of debates, nor should you. Like the whole point of getting to an elected office is to fight for certain principles, right? I mean, and if you can't get up for the idea that the military is going to be sent into the second biggest city of our country used against fellow citizens as part of a highly aggressive immigration deportation regime that is now targeting people who have

been in the community and done nothing wrong for decades and going after a huge American business in Home Depot, just lining up and trying to raid these, these people going there to do their work. I mean, if you can't get up for that, then like, you know, get out, honestly, just get out, do give it to someone else. I'm sure people will be willing to handle both Medicaid and the use of military and a fellow American citizens at the same time. It is possible. Yeah. It's possible.

Last topic. And again, to shout out Newsome, who anybody who's watched the channel know for a while, I've got a lot of complaints about Newsome over various, over the years. And so this is not a Yas Queen Gavin Newsome account. But I think he handled this challenge quite well, right? Of like, how to address- Well, let's see, man. Let's see. No, no, no. So I just want to play this guy. I just mean, in this clip I'm about to play,

a lot of the things, a lot of the reasons why the Democrats shy away from this is because they don't exactly know what to say about the rioting and the protesting. And maybe they sometimes lean too far the wrong way. They don't know how to handle being both against Trump's overreach and sending a clear message about public order. Here's how News and Handle it. But look, you made a point a moment ago. These images are unacceptable. These kids on the car, the folks that are taking advantage of this, these aren't peaceful

protesters. A lot of these folks, a lot of great people out there doing the right thing, but you get these surgeon groups coming in, sort of these anarchists that are in there to create real problems. And they're just playing right into Donald Trump's hand and they need to be called out. They need to be arrested. It is wrong to destroy other people's property and it is wrong to create the conditions that only exacerbate this. But Donald Trump at the end of the day is the sponsor of these conditions. That's really good. I mean, that's what else are you going to say?

You can't not condemn the people who are trying to take advantage of this. Well, you can not. I mean, I just, again, I don't cut the former Kamala Harris put out a statement that she didn't do that where she. Fair enough. And I don't, I haven't gone through every democratic statement, but I think that there are a lot of Democrats that struggle with that balance. And I think you just nailed it.

No, it's fine. It's fine. I think that, yeah, you're Democrats that struggle with that balance and I think you just nailed it. No, it's fine. It's fine. I think that, yeah, you're right. You're right. But I think more Democrats should talk like that. I mean, it's very easy to say this shit's wrong when you're burning cars and looting stores and throwing rocks at federal officials. Don't do that.

But I think the point is valid, which is you're playing into Trump's hands. And secondarily, if Trump was interested in calming the situation, he would be doing the opposite of what he's doing. He's interested in flaming the situation. I think that's, I would like some people on the right to kind of grapple with that a little bit more. I know that I'm expecting a lot, but like, do they actually believe that he's interested in common? Do they actually believe that he's interested in calming the situation and that this is the way to do it? And a good litmus test for that question, something else I was thinking about just a

minute ago before I was going to go on TV was like a hypothetical, which is when they saw the cars on fire, when Donald Trump, JD Vance, Stephen Miller, Tom Homan, Pete Hegs, saw the cars on fire, do you think that they were happy about it or do you think that they were upset and they thought this is bad? We need to take care of it or do you think they're like, thank God, they were thrilled. They're thrilled. Of course. That tells you all you need to know. All right. Sam Stein. Um, we'll be back much to cover on this stuff.