Bulwark Takes - Ben Shapiro Nuked His Own Allies at TPUSA

Episode Date: December 19, 2025

Ben Shapiro slammed Candace Owens at TPUSA's AmericaFest and exposed a growing civil war inside conservative media. Sam Stein and Will Sommer give their takes on the backlash, Tucker Carlson’s response, Megyn Kelly’s role, and why no one seems capable of stopping the chaos. Exclusive $35 off Carver Mat at https://on.auraframes.com/BULWARKTAKES. Promo Code BULWARKTAKES

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please contact Connix Ontario at 1866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming Ontario. Hey, everybody. It's me, Sam Stein, managing out at the Bullwark, joined by Will Summer, author of False Flag Newsletter. You know the drill. Subscribe to that. Subscribe to this. It's a bulwark takes. I was watching this last night, the TPUSA Festival, Amfest, out in Where's at Phoenix? And there was a pretty remarkable moment. I thought it was like a big deal. Not everyone on staff agreed, but we'll put that to the side for now. Ben Shapiro, speaking to the audience, gave this. really kind of impassioned plea for the members there to more or less reject Nick Fuentes and Candice Owens to recommit themselves to the truth. I thought him having to say that was kind of remarkable. But it really felt like kind of, I don't know, I got like anxious watching it because it seemed like half the audience was jeering and half the audience was, you know, hollering and approval. And then we just sort of waited to see what the response would be. But,

I guess, Will, because you follow the stuff so much more closely than basically anyone on Earth. I don't know. Can you like, am I over reading it? Can you just sort of set it up, like how big a deal this actually was? No, I think it was a remarkable night. I mean, the conservative movement right now is having a sort of civil war, you know, and it's sort of, we can maybe break it down on two angles. One is what role white nationalists and anti-Semites like Nick Fuentes should have in the party

prompted by Tucker Carlson kind of inviting him in. And the other is Candace Owens, who's also an anti-Semite, but specifically her conspiracy theories about the murder of Charlie Kirk. So this conference is a celebration of Charlie Kirk and sort of in his widow, Erica Kirk, is really at the center of it. And, you know, Ben Shapiro gets up there and he starts calling out specific people like Tucker Carlson or Megan Kelly, who he feels are basically letting all of these negative elements, these demons into the party. Yeah, but I guess even just like the idea, like they're having a debate over what role anti-Semites and what National should have in the party. party. I mean, like, just step back for a second. What do we, why is this a debate? It's crazy. And, you know, it was striking to me. I mean, Charlie Kirk, he was Nick Fuente's arch enemy. I mean, he did so much, he would kick him out when he showed up to Turning Point

USA conferences. If anyone in Turning Point USA was affiliated with Nick Fuentes, even in very minor ways, they would be kicked out of the group. And so suddenly you have, it hasn't even been a year. It's been three months since the murder. Suddenly this, the big debate at Charlie Kirk's conference is how much do we let Nick Fuentes and his really, you know, bigoted ideas into the party. And you could tell, you know, it was striking to me that the audience was, I would say, pretty pro Fuentes, at least a good segment of it. I mean, when people would bring up, you know, we got to keep Nick Fuentes out or whatever, they'd get booed, or kind of comedian Russell Brand said, well, maybe we should debate Nick Fuentes. People said, yeah. So, I mean,

I think it's a sign that really kind of what Charlie Kirk created is really slipping out of what imagine. What did you make of Shapiro deciding to use this platform for this purpose? I mean, I thought it was a bold move. I mean, I think he's been feuding with a lot of these people pretty openly, particularly in the case of Tucker Carlson. I mean, a lot of this comes down to, you know, U.S. support for Israel. Tucker Carlson has been really aligned with Qatar lately. I mean, he's been saying, you know, maybe we should be, Qatar should be our main ally in the Middle East. And so they've been clashing over that. But I thought it was really bold, particularly on the first night, which is, you know, so focused around Charlie Kirk, again, his widows spoke before

Shapiro, then to get up there and say, you know, it's kind of like a, like a family meeting where there's been a lot of, you know, text messages flying back and forth. And then you have Thanksgiving dinner. And then it's time to, okay, let's hash this out. And I mean, they, I mean, Ben Chimero really tore into a lot of these people. Well, I guess we should probably play a portion of what Shapiro said. It was like a 20-minute speech. I put it on 1.5, but he speaks so fast that I had then go back to 1.25. But it's worth watching a football game. We won't play the whole thing.

But let's play the part where he goes after Owens. And then also Meg and Kelly, because I thought that was kind of interesting. But even if it were true that other public figures were our best friends, our very best friends, that does not relieve us of our duty to speak out of principle and not to cover up evil or shy away from addressing it out of friendship. So no, Tucker Carlson, it is not an excuse to go silent on Candace's targeting of TPUSA.

Or to mirror her bullshit lines of questioning because you love Candice personally. The same holds true of Megan Kelly, a person I consider a friend, characterizing Candace as a young mother and thus shying away from condemning her actions or feeling about them. That is a non-starter. Megan Markle is a young mother Ilhan Omar is a young mother that doesn't matter and when Megan said this week

quote my goal and my job here is to try to understand yes where Candace is coming from on this and so she sees no purpose in inserting herself quote into this on one side that is a moral and logical absurdity there is only one moral side here Erica Kirk's

side You know, the side of the widow with two children whose husband was shot live on camera in front of all of us. Friendship with the person accusing T.P. USA of a cover-up of Charlie's murder is no excuse for cowardness. The Megan Kelly thing, you have to be a little bit in the weeds on this feud to understand why he went at Megan Kelly. But tell me if I'm wrong in how I'm describing you. But basically, I think he's going after Megan Kelly because Megan Kelly is not standing up or speaking out more forcefully against Candace Owens. In fact, she's decided to take this kind of back channeling approach to try to bring down the temperature between Candace Owens and Erica Kirk. Why does that make it so controversial for Ben Shapiro?

You know, I think for Megan Kelly, I mean, these are people who are. like kind of the real faces of right wing media, which in practice is also, you know, in many ways the conservative movement and the Trump administration. And so Megan Kelly was, I would say, the most prominent person to to stay on the sidelines of this feud. And in a way that I thought, and I think a lot of other people thought, was really sort of because she was scared of Candace Owens. And so she's, she was seen as sort of allowing Candace Owens to pillage Charlie Kirk's legacy, terrorize his family and friends with her conspiracy theories. And then she would say, you know, she was actually kind of defensive of Candace in the past.

She would, she would, when Ben Shapiro said, well, look, she's saying Charlie Kirk's widow murdered him, essentially. And she would say, well, you know, she said, you know, you kind of parse her words and say, she didn't exactly say that. And, you know, shame on you, Ben Shapiro. So she wasn't even really a neutral party here. But I thought it was useful. I mean, sort of throughout, we would see this kind of equivocation.

I mean, this is Charlie Kirk's organization. This is his widow speaking that night. I know. And you get people like Tucker Carlson and, um, And in particular, Russell, Russell Brand gets up there as well. And they're kind of like, look, can't we just be neutral? Can we like Erica Kirk and like Candace Owens? And what I liked about what Ben Shapiro said is he got up there and said, look, these are not, these are not like two friends who are fighting over a Venmo payment or something.

Right. Like, this is one person here had her husband blown away on, the entire world saw it, you know, two young kids. And on the other hand, we have someone who's making a lot of money off of politicizing this death and conspiracy theories and going after. to this widow. But it's not even that. It's like Kansas has been basically suggesting, if not outright, stating that she believes TPUSA staffers may have been involved in the assassination. And here they are at a TPUSA event. And the people in the crowd, ostensibly supporters of TPSA, are like, well, maybe we should hear her out. Maybe we did, are they suggesting maybe we did have a role? I mean, like, how do they even, how do they square

that it doesn't it doesn't compute to me i would if if someone had accused my organization of being uh complicit in a horrendous assassination and then covering it up i would want to exile that person as far away as possible and diminish their influence but it doesn't seem like that's the case at least for half the crowd yeah i mean i think you can see there's this real like leadership vacuum right now at turning point USA they don't including erika kirk i would say they don't have someone with this kind of charisma that it takes to survive in right-wing media and to sort of, you know, control the the trends. And I mean, you're right. It is, it is like if, you know, the bulwark was implicated in the assassination of one of our employees. And then we say, oh, but come on down

to the live show. Yeah, yeah. Just worry about it. Well, we'll talk it out. Maybe we can find some common ground. The only thing I would argue that was, and I know he addressed it, like, obliquely in one line. But, you know, in a, in a, in a speech that, went after people for platforming bad actors. Ben Shapiro is also responsible for platforming bad actors, right? Like, he helped elevate Candace. And I know he referenced it, but he didn't like, you know, maybe take more ownership of it, I suppose. I don't know. Oh, you're absolutely right. Bullwark takes is sponsored by ORA Frames. We're now getting down to the wire and holiday shopping season. Hanukkah's already started and you're getting close to that window for Christmas.

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You can even add a personalized message for your recipient before the frame arrives. For a limited time, save on the perfect gift by visitingoraframes.com to get $35 off or as best-selling Carver Matt Frames. They were named number one by wirecutter. use the promo code bulwark takes at checkout that's a you are a frames dot com promo code bulwark takes this deal is exclusive to listeners and frames do sell out fast so order yours now to get it in time for the holidays you are running out of time support the show by mentioning us at checkout terms and conditions apply the challenge here is that a lot of these people are themselves I mean, you know, either implicated in Candace or with bigotry more broadly.

I mean, in the case of, you know, Ben Shapiro, really platformed Candace. She worked for him for a while and built her brand there. And then, you know, Ben Shapiro himself. I mean, I think it was just within this year that they've been running a campaign to pardon Derek Chauvin, the cop who murdered George Floyd. I mean, so the idea that his hands are clean is ridiculous. But I think it was this kind of unique moment of sort of standing up to these figures on really the Wright's biggest state.

And I saw a lot of TPUSA people who were retweeting and saying, you know, yes, go Ben Shapiro. But it's such a weird thing because then right after that, you're going to put Tucker Carlson on the stage. So it's this weird thing where I feel like Turning Point is sort of wide open for the taking right now. I want to read a couple reactions. Megan Kelly tweeted the following Ben Shapiro and Barry Weiss because Barry Wise basically the free press ran Ben Shapiro's full speech as a piece. and Bearer Weiss triumphantly posted it on Twitter and I, you know, clearly stating where she stands on this issue. So Megan Kelly says, Bench Bear and Barry Weiss in a joint attack on yours truly, parentheses, their quote-unquote friend tonight without a damn clue what has been going on behind the scenes for months. Prob should have checked with at TPSA and at Ms. Erica Kirk first.

I'm embarrassed for them. That's fine. I expected something along the lines of that. The more illuminating reaction I thought was from Candace Owens herself, who tweets, Beyond obvious that Ben is tremendously fearful about something related to this assassination, which is just like such a perfect Candace Owen's tweet. Any attack on her becomes evidence that you are complicit in a brutal murder. No, nothing substantiated, no evidence, nothing at all.

Just, you know, throwing something out there that, yeah, Ben Shapiro's probably involved. I mean, it's a beautiful logic. I mean, she can sort of add anyone who's critical of her, you know, she's already managed to convince her her audience. Yes, I mean, I'm. And, you know, I should say just hours before Ben Shapiro's speech or maybe even an hour, Candace Owens, you know, she ostensibly had this maybe truce with Turning Point USA that's already over because she had a guy come out on her show and say, oh, yeah, I was at a military base the day before the assassination. And I saw Erica Kirk meeting with some special forces guys with the implication that she's like,

all right, you know, here's how we're going to do it at Utah Valley University. I mean, so it is truly crazy stuff. You know, so Tucker Carlson gets up there. And he basically says, you know, first he says, you know, first he's, says, you know, I missed Ben Spies. Excuse me. He says, I miss Ben Spitz. Why don't we just play part of the Tucker Cross? Okay, great.

Here we go. I just got here, and I feel like I missed the first part of the program. I hope I didn't miss anything meaningful. But I just want to say, I don't think I did. No, I'm just kidding. I watched it. I laughed.

I laughed. That kind of bitter sardonic laugh that emerges from you and, like, upside-down world arrives. when your dog starts doing your taxes and you're like, wait, it's not supposed to work this way. To hear calls for, like, deplatforming and denouncing people at a Charlie Kirk event, I'm like, what? So he basically says, you know, I miss this pipsqueak speech, you know, who cares? And he's like, well, maybe I caught a little bit of it. And then he makes it all about, you know, we've seen how the left has, they're all about

de-platforming. And so now why are conservatives talking about de-platforming? I think we're seeing this very like 2024 language about cancel culture and deplatforming and wokeness now being used by people of these far right elements like Tucker like Candace to say like you can't criticize us. You know, that's what the left would do. It's a Chinese finger trap. The more you pull out, the harder gets to pull.

It's like if you dare push back at Candace, it becomes, uses evidence that you're part of the conspiracy. If you call for people to not platform people like Candace or Nick Fuentes, you become opposed to free speech. And so there's nothing you can actually do to win these arguments because every time you try to make a point, it gets used against you. It's impossible to, it's impossible to navigate. They're really stuck.

I mean, I think the perspective of someone like Ben Shapiro, the only way to win this would be having a figure of like sort of mega charisma, like essentially Donald Trump, I think is the obvious answer here. That's why, you know, we started to see people on how the pro-Israel faction of the rights start to say, we need J.D. we need Donald Trump to give an Oval Office address denouncing Candace Owens and Gropers. Oh, my God. People are asking for that?

Yeah, I believe Joshua Hammer. Can you imagine that the average American being like, what? The what? The what? The Gryper? Okay, we're at war with the Groyper's. My fellow Americans, I come to you in this moment of barrel. Candace Owens is out of control. Candice Owens.

She's broadcasting five times a week. The Tucker made said two other things I thought were interesting. one was he says he said when people say that you're a Nazi is the new you're a racist so he's saying you know again drawing on that cancel culture stuff he's saying when you hear someone like nick Fuentes called a Nazi you should just think about how rude the left was to us in 2020 and that's the same thing what if they are Nazis you know I think from Tucker's perspective I think you know it all comes out in the wash and the other thing is that he was he was saying you know everyone says you know there was as we were saying there's this tension in the room. You could see the audience was it was on edge. And he's saying, you know, people are talking about this right wing civil war. I don't see it. You know, I think this is actually an attempt to go after J.D. Vance because he's friends with me. And he's kind of positioning himself with the winning side, which by the way, Erica Kirk has endorsed J.D. Vance. I think it's very

advantageous to this sort of insurgent faction led by Tucker to pretend that there is not a right wing civil war because they feel very empowered, I think, to sort of ransack at will and go after all their enemies. Whereas people like Ben Shapiro, Mark Levin, then suddenly they say, whoa, hey, there's no enemies on the right. I'm thinking about what Ben Shapiro probably thought prior to this speech, which is there's going to be fleeting moments to try to take a stand, at least at this kind of level of stagecraft. And that, of course, if you're going to do it, you got to do it at the first TPSA Amfest gathering after the assassination. And he shot a shot, really. Like, I mean, this was this was there really is not many you could obviously go on your own podcast and do whatever

you want but this was the one chance and i'm glad he took it i honestly am it it was a bit of courage in a moment when i think it's kind of absent but i just i got to be honest i don't i don't know how i can't see it working at least not now um i think candis is just this kind of unstoppable monster i i don't i don't see it any other way i mean i think it was telling that then in the Q&A's a young man got up and asked, asked Ben Shapiro, well, what about this time Israel attacked the USS Liberty 60 years ago, which is a very kind of griper themed question. I mean, I think that's where a lot of the young people are going. And the other symbol or, you know, sort of trend moment I thought was Michael Knowles, who's also a host on Ben Shapiro's Daily Wire, he spoke after him. And he gave like

a pretty milk toast, kind of like we got to go after the left kind of speech. And so I thought it was telling that he did not sort of back up his boss on this, that he was sort of like, oh, you know, maybe I'll stand this side here. What could, I know we're talking about like this kind of civil war within the right, but like, you know, and what would it look like if there was an actual real break, right?

Like, because we're not quite there yet. I mean, they're still talking to each other. You know, they're obviously at these events. But like, what would an actual break look like? Yeah, I mean, perhaps the emergence of either a rival organization, you know, strengthening of some kind of Nick Fuentes type operation. I mean, I think a lot of this will get hashed out in 2028 with the, that'll perhaps be the way, you know, the direction society. The rally around Vance, yeah, or something like that. But maybe there is something where

they get a rival faction type thing in different organization spawns. I mean, you might see, for example, scuffles at America Fest. Oh, wait, we're already getting that. You know, there's always, there's always got to be a little brawl. There's always got to be a little fight at this thing. And in this case, the Blaze has a host who's kind of like a rival of Nick Fuentes and some guys who appear to be Groyper's were kind of confronting him. And then he turned on them and they all ran away. So, you know, we're already getting, you know, a little bit of the sideshow going on as well. Okay. How many more days of this festival do we have or is it over?

Two more days. Okay. We'll keep tabs on it. We'll see what happens. Very curious to see more of the reaction to Shapiro. And honestly, Candace does her thing today, right, on her show. she's got a show yeah so she'll have another show and she'll i mean she she knows all this controversy just kind of feeds into the content mill so i'm sure she'll address it all right will

thanks so much buddy appreciate it always pleasure talking about the weird happenings in your neck of the woods for those who love this stuff uh you're sick like will you have a disease um but we're here to help you subscribe to the false flag newsletter subscribe to bulwark takes appreciate the support like share the algorithm will you know if you do that a help the algorithm. That's key. Talk to you soon, folks. Later.