Bulwark Takes - Bill Maher Is Getting Played By "Nice" Trump

Episode Date: April 14, 2025

Bill Maher dines with Trump and suddenly softens his tone. JVL and Sarah Longwell aren’t buying it. They break down how Trump manipulates elites, why Maher’s take is dangerous, and what it says about the media’s role in normalizing authoritarianism.

Hello, everyone. I'm JVL here with my best friend, Sarah Longwell of The Bulwark. And last night, Sunday, we had some big news. We had Donald Trump talking about 60 Minutes and how he wants the federal government to punish the new show, which is, I guess, a thing we do in America now. But first, before that, we had Bill Maher coming on his show and talking about his very nice and cordial dinner with Donald Trump and how he now knows the real man behind the tweets. Sarah, let's give it a listen. The guy I met is not the person who the night before the dinner shit-tweeted a bunch of nasty crap about how he thought this dinner was a bad idea

and what a deranged asshole I was. I read it and thought, oh, what a lovely way to welcome someone to your house. But when I got there, that guy wasn't living there. Now, does Trump want respect? Of course. Who doesn't? My friend said to me, what are you going to wear to the White House? I said, I don't know, but I'm not going to dress like Zelensky, I'll tell you that. He's much more self-aware than he lets on in public.

Look, I get it. It doesn't matter who he is at a private dinner with a comedian. It matters who he is on the world stage. I'm just taking as a positive that this person exists, because everything I've ever not liked about him was, I swear to God, absent, at least on this night with this guy. A crazy person doesn't live in the White House. A person who plays a crazy person on TV a lot lives there, which I know is fucked up.

It's just not as fucked up as I thought it was. Well, there it is. What do you think, Sarah? Okay, so... Oh, boy, that was a deep breath. Do you know who else talked about really enjoying their dinner with Donald Trump? Said what a nice person he is? Who?

White supremacist Nick Fuentes. Oh. Oh, he also had dinner with Donald Trump. He did also have dinner with Trump. I think this is a real problem in how anyone evaluates Donald Trump. To say, oh, well, he's nice to my face. Or, yeah, you know, he just asked me questions. Oh, Bill Maher, did he did he flatter your vanity? Did he did he charm you? of others as a weapon is, I guess, you know, I don't think you got to hand it to him, but it is

one of the ways in which he has been able to sort of master the elite class in this country, right? I think it is one of the ways that a sort of mix of menace, dominance politics with then flattery um i think that that has become an intoxicating brew for our elite class and so i and and look i when you dress it up as a kind of well what else are we supposed to do uh besides you know hurl insults at each other from 3 000 miles away and i'm like he's like, of course we should sit down and talk. And I was like, are you negotiating a peace accord with somebody, Bill Maher? Like, what is it about you sitting down with him that creates for everybody else a better understanding? Are you a stand-in for the people like what is your role exactly other than

famous person who has long been i think quite an effective critic of trump uh because you well i i just in the sense that he he sees him right like he just did this whole thing. And this is, you know, this is a problem we're having with a lot of people where he did a monologue the other day that I thought was quite good. I remember because I tweeted it. And it was about how North Korea like Donald Trump and his top tier team are like the golfing and the yes sir and the kissing is it right so he talks about how trump is like north korea these things don't exist together it's a little bit like you know if you called if you sit on your show and for months you say he's a nazi sympathizer he's the worst ever you know whatever all things that I think are credible

critiques of him. And then you're like, and I'm going to have dinner with him. And oh, he was nice. He was it was perfectly cordial in person. You, my friend. And you know what I appreciated Josh Rogan, not Joe Rogan, Josh Rogan was on his show and he caveated it a lot when he was on. He kept telling he too flattered Bill Maher before he delivered what I think was an effect was was a true thing, which is these people do not understand that they are being used by Donald Trump as PR props. He is using you to normalize him. And just because you get to be in the presence of him does not erase your earlier critiques. Like just because in the flesh and blood, he was like, oh, hey, yeah, I don't have four heads and two tongues and I don't punch you in the face. That doesn't mean that everything you weren't criticizing about him and seeing

clearly is wrong. And if you believe any of your analysis from before, and I'm not even saying, like, you can't have dinner with him. Like, if you're a journalist, reporter journalist, and this is part of your job, talking to this guy, sure. But don't come tell the rest of us. No, no, guys, don't worry. He's a super normal dude who's just, you know, who's a really pleasant dinner companion. Super thoughtful guy. I'm not sure. And this is where it has always been my contention The mega spiralized types are nowhere near as dangerous as the people who sort of see Trump.

Clearly, but get caught in their anti anti trap. Right. There's a reason that the apologists, the people who carry water for Trump on sort of the respectable intellectual right, to me have always been much more harmful overall than just people who go all in full MAGA. Well, they're more annoying, to be sure. So here's the thing about Bill Maher. He's always been a charlatan. I mean, I've hated Bill Maher for like 20 years. He was a very medium talent stand up. His talk show, I've always been utterly mystified by why people watch it. And people do watch it. I mean, it's a very popular show. I don't understand it. Even by the standards of broadcast media, he is unbelievably superficial. He's a blowhard. He's vain. I mean, this is a he's just stupid. He is both stupid and self-important. And here's the thing. There are two Bill Maher's here and one of them is wrong and is so wrong that the other Bill Maher ought to simply stop doing his television show. Because either the Bill Maher who was saying all those things about Trump being a monster was wrong. And so he's been wrong for years on end about everything,

at which point, like, what is he even doing on television? Why would he be subtracting from people's understanding of the world by subjecting the rest of us to his opinions? Or this new Bill Maher, who says that actually Trump is a totally normal guy, is also wrong, and is so monstrously wrong that, again, he should not be on television talking because he's too fucking stupid which one is it one of them one of them is right one of them is wrong and he's so wrong that he shouldn't be on tv uh well i'm glad that everybody has come around on belmar hating the way i have been like everything else with Bill Maher. Like the key is that you can't like him just when he like is agreeing with you. You have to understand that even when he is like, you know, theoretically on your side, he's still an asshole and he's still stupid. And so he's only on your side by accident. Okay. I'll just say for the record, I actually find his critiques often quite good and sharp. I don't think he's stupid. I actually think he is extremely highly informed.

See, and this is where I actually think low info types are people who don't pay a ton of attention to politics. They're not focused on it. They've got their sort of very bespoke concerns that impact only them. You know that I feel differently about people like that and their responsibility to understand who and what Donald Trump is than I do for people who are close political observers who know exactly what he is. So while I don't agree that he's stupid, I actually think he's quite sharp. And I think one of the reasons people I actually and I also find I think he is often very funny.

And I think that delivering politics and humor funny. I mean, he is sometimes quite funny yeah um and delivers funny moments on his show which i think uh since the daily show went away i just think there's still like a real appetite still on the air yeah but not with john i mean john stewart is like back on mondays but like it went back when it was like a really cultural you still watch the daily show i i don't but i well whatever that's my like meh on john stewart is a topic for another day okay yeah maybe i don't know maybe you just hate humor i don't you know what it is i hate happiness sarah i don't like it that people try to make other people happy this checks out i do this makes Yeah. So anyway, but for people who are sharp political observers, for them to sort of because this is where you get. And also to allow yourself to be a pawn like this is it is sort of the definition of a useful idiot.

Right. Is that like you can be sort of, oh, no, we'll bring you in. We'll give you a nice dinner. We'll be nice and inquisitive toward you and we'll flatter your particular pretensions about being central to the American discussion. And then you're going to go out and carry my water for me. You're going to go tell people what a nice guy I am. despite the fact that you do show after show every week, acknowledging in the news all of the damage that I do by being an absolute terrible person. And so, you know, I agree with you, though, that the contradiction is pretty like the swing is too broad to go from Trump North Korea lover and turning us into North Korea to Trump guy I dine with good dude. So, you know, as we talked about with many of the anti-antis, this is an analysis problem. And if you're now if you are so bad at analysis that you are catastrophically wrong in one of those two directions, then you shouldn't be doing it. Yeah. And that brings us, I think, to a second topic, which also has me very annoyed and something

I would put to Mara himself, because Bill Maher is a free speech guy, right? He's got that libertarian kind of bent. Oh, those libertariansarians you can always count on the libertarians yeah all right so so let me let me set it up i want to tee this up for you um 60 minutes was on on sunday night and it mentioned donald trump they talked about greenland and ukraine and here is the bleat from the president of the united states. Almost every week, 60 Minutes, which is being sued for billions of dollars for the fraud they committed in the 2024 presidential election, blah, blah, blah,

mentions the name Trump, all caps, in a derogatory and defamatory way. But this weekend's, quote, broadcast, all caps, tops them all. Ta-da, ta-da, ta-da. I am so honored to be suing 60 Minutes, CBS Fake News, and Paramount over their fraudulent beyond recognition reporting. They did everything possible to illegally elect Kamala, sorry, illegally elect Kamala. I have to read it in his voice, obviously, including completely

and corruptly changing major answers, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. They should lose their license. Hopefully, the Federal Communications Commission, parenthesis, FCC, which is the craziest part of this entire thing, but that's okay. As headed by its highly respected chairman, all capped, Brandon Carr will impose the maximum fines and punishment, which is substantial for their unlawful and illegal behavior. CBS is out of control at levels never seen before, and they should pay a big price for this. Make America great again. So, Sarah, that's a thing that happens in America now. It is actually a thing that is because this is not the first time.

Like when he says they're being sued, he's the one suing them. He's suing them for other stuff. Yes. And, you know, what I know from George – because this is – it actually goes to why the law firms and the media companies both capitulate for roughly the same reason which is mergers and acquisitions there is apparently in that mergers and acquisition markets especially among these media companies with streamers and all the things there is a a big glut of need from like disney and other things to do acquiring to do you know whatever they've all got these things in the middle of a sale right now.

That's right. Right. And so they end up having to, and by having to, I mean, you do not have to. You can make choices here. You have agency. But they decide that in order for them to pursue these business endeavors that they need to do, they must capitulate to Trump and give him protection money. Right. And if Paramount and CBS caves on this, I mean, if I say that like I'm

about to threaten them with something real, but I'm not the president of the United States. So what am I going to do? It's just but it is unconscionable what Trump is doing. But that's the part, I mean, okay, so that part bothers me at the most fundamental level. But my sort of pedestrian annoyance, going back to the anti-anti, says I was told reliably by so many of the people who said libs were worse, who said we couldn't vote for Kamala Harris, that Donald Trump was going to be a free speech champion. I was also told that about Elon Musk, that this is the, and you know, when Mark Zuckerberg said that he was going to become, you know, somebody to really work with Donald Trump,

it was because we had to make free speech great again. And Elon had to buy Twitter to make free speech happen again. And the free press, you know, this is free speech is our central issue or someplace like Reason Magazine. These are all the free speech, free speech, free speech. There's basically one group that has been consistent on that. And that is FIRE, the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression. Right. They have been 100 percent. But all these other people who during the Biden years and basically when a Democrat's in, just talk about free speech constantly. Hmm. I don't know where they are. He is suing pollsters for results he doesn't like.

What about Barry Weiss? What does Barry Weiss think about this? I am curious. I mean, she did a whole Twitter files thing because it was bad that Twitter suppressed tweets about the Hunter Biden laptop for 12 hours once. I do think that went wrong, though. I think she ended up into like a bit of a fight with Elon.

Well, not wrong enough to make her recant anything. That I don't I don't I don't remember the I don't remember the details of the Twitter files situation. What I do know is that that that is like part of the crowd that I do not understand why we're not why we're not up in arms about free speech at the moment. So I understand it. There is a fellow I I the heterodox movement, but he was always right on the edge of the heterodox movement. And over the weekend, he wrote something in which he said, you know, we had all this stuff we wanted because we thought the DEI stuff was ridiculous and the woke stuff was super annoying. And we wanted more speech.

And then we got it on Twitter. And now Twitter is basically a Nazi cesspool. And we have people who are trying to unstigmatize the Second World War and Germany and Hitler. And we have a bunch of people who are running around firing basically every woman with a high rank in the armed forces and pulling Maya Angelou books out of the Naval Academy library, but leaving mine comp. And like, I don't know, maybe all the DEI wokes were worried for a reason. I actually can't believe the amount of which here. Maybe that stuff all existed because there were some really very, very bad impulses running around through American culture.

Yeah, maybe. I also I don't i don't know i don't know but the amount of like really racist stuff in the for you feed and i don't know if like at some point i was like oh no or like i saw one of them and because this is the problem is if i saw it and was like, what is this? And then clicked on it, it just keeps giving you more. It can give you more no matter what. Same way you get Elon no matter what, right? Yeah, that's true. I block this guy and you still can't.

Doesn't matter. It is wild. You know, Sarah, here's what I want to know. Where does Woke DEI go to get its apology? What? I'm just saying it turns out that Woke DEI existed for a reason. No. Because there was a lot of, like, terrible stuff happening in America.

Yeah, but that's not the... There was a lot of, like, really nasty impulses and people wanting to say and do terrible things. Yeah. I don't really mean that. Don't worry. I'm just trying to trigger you. Okay. I don't think that –

Well, DEIs are still terrible, Sarah. Great. I just don't – I don't think that that was the best corrective to what are some terrible human impulses. Here's the thing, though. I will say another thing that gets served to me that I saw, and you just mentioned this, so it's worth just throwing it out there, is this guy, Matt Walsh, who I just miss the days when I didn't know who these people were.

But he's one of those Daily Wire guys. And apparently a big part of his shtick is just being super misogynistic. That guy is so butch i mean really he's a man's man yeah he i think like when he shows up it's always like some lecture about women and how you know men should be alpha and trad wives i don't know anyway but i got i saw he did this thing where somebody was he was, quote, tweeting the story about the four star female general that got fired. And he was like, good, you know, like this. And because they're just I don't know why they're purging a lot of women from the military.

I mean, I mean, I do know. But this this appears to be a thing that's happening. Oh, it's probably all merit-based. Yeah. They probably all have really bad performance reviews or something. And just as coincidence, they all happen to be minorities and women.

Yeah, I just, it does strike me. Donald Trump was obviously a draft dodger who has repeatedly insulted men and women in uniform. But like, you get these guys like Matt Walsh being like, this woman is, I don't care what you think, she's serving her country. Like, where did these, did Matt Walsh serve his country in uniform? I presume even, even if you think DEI got her there, she probably still worked pretty hard. She still served her country, devoted her career and her life to it. Is that, are we not respecting that anymore? Of course we don't respect that. It's like the cops thing. Blue lives matter,

except for the Capitol Police, right? And this is, I respect law enforcement, except for the FBI, which, and when the FBI is carrying out a raid at Mar-a-Lago, then you can't trust anything that the cops do or say. Right. It's it's what all of this is. Yeah, I mean, I know. I just I guess I I guess what I want is for individuals like Matt Walsh to feel some modicum of embarrassment or shame being somebody who's never served his country and criticizing someone who has. I mean, I don't know Matt. Now you could now you could criticize her for if there was one specific. But like this was just woman.

Get her out of there. Yeah, I feel pretty confident in saying he won't ever feel embarrassment or shame. Right now. I understand this. Yeah. You know who else won't ever feel embarrassment or shame. Right. No, I understand this. Yeah. You know who else won't? Bill Maher. Because he is a callow, vain little pony.

He's a little man. A little fellow. Okay, well, I'm also a person of small stature, so I'm not going to, you know. I'm merely observing, Sarah. I'm not making any value judgments about it. I'm just saying he's a pathetic little man. That's all.

Okay. Okay. Let's settle down. You want more of this hot fire? Hit like, hit subscribe, follow the feed. Come with us as we journey on our rocket sled to hell. Good luck, America.