Bulwark Takes - BREAKING: Thomas Massie Loses Primary Against Trump-Backed Challenger

Episode Date: May 20, 2026

Sam Stein and JVL give their takes on Rep. Thomas Massie's primary loss to Trump-backed challenger Ed Gallrein.Make today a good day, and get yourself some Soul gummies. Right now, Soul is offering 30% off your entire order! Go to https://GetSoul.com and use the code BULWARKTAKES.

Hey, everyone. It's me, Sam Stein. I'm Angie at the Bullock. I'm here with JVL, and we are breaking in live coverage for this news. Tom Massey, the conservative Kentucky candidate has apparently. He gone. He gone. He gone. Reportedly, not apparently, reportedly has lost his primary against Ed Galrine, his challenger, his challenger. NBC made the call. Decision Descions made the call. It's done. It's done. And, uh, I mean, there's a bunch of takeaways here, but JVille, what's your top line one? So the, I mean, there's a lot of, this is Trump's party, as Lindsay Graham said. But the most interesting thing here is that so Cassidy, Cassidy voted to impeach Donald Trump, which was an attack on Donald Trump. And so his voters, you know, Republican voters could see that as, well, he went after Trump. Right. Massey's big sin was that he was in favor of releasing the Epstein files and that he's against the war in Iran.

Now, these are two things which Trump supporters ostensibly are on Massey's side of and not Trump's side. Right. If you just wind the clock back and ask Epstein files, all these Republicans are, you know, in his Kentucky four would be like, oh, got to release the Epstein files. He said, how do you think we should be holding hands with Israel and attacking Iran? They was just said, what are you talking about? No way, right?

Yeah. And so there's this transubstantiation here where the same people who insist Donald Trump had nothing to do with Epstein are now punishing Thomas Massey because they see his call for the releases of the Epstein files as the attack on Donald Trump. It's such a solid point. That to me is the different thing. Yeah, I hadn't even thought about it in those dimensions. But now that you're talking about it, like transport yourself back two years.

You're a congressional candidate on the Republican side. And you're running on a platform that is, at least the Epstein files, no foreign interventions, deficits out of control, and we need to doge the hell out of government. That's Tom Massey. That's Tom Massey. There it is. And that's Donald Trump. The transgression is that Trump has changed on all those fronts. And Tom Massey hasn't.

So. And the voters did what Trump wanted. Right. I mean, that's the other. And the other thing, I mean, it is important to see, like, I don't know how close. this is going to be. We don't know what the final. We know that it's enough that they were able to call it by like 50% of the returns in. Right. But Massey is running against a tomato can. I mean, this guy has never won elected office before. He's he lost like a state Senate race. Yeah. He's like 62. He didn't show up at any of the debates. No. I mean, he is a nonentity. So it isn't like there was this top tier challenger that they came in as wildly charismatic guy. knocked him on. It was, this is a pure proxy for Trump tells you to do a thing for him. And the voters just clap like seals and did what Trump demanded.

Just to emphasize that point, like in the past couple days and weeks, you have Pete Heggseth going campaign for Gowarin. I mean, kind of unheard of for the, I mean, think about it, actually, the defense secretary in the middle of a war. Like, without the- I guess the war must be going really great. No, sorry, sorry. In the middle of an excursion. Scourish or excursion? Yeah.

He got, he left the Pentagon to go to this Kentucky district in campaign. It's like kind of a remarkable indictment of Pete Higgs-eth, frankly. And then you had all the other people, you know, Stephen Miller was weighing in on this. Trump himself put out a tweet on my, we can actually put the tweet up if we have it. He never goes on Twitter. Trump went on Twitter today to just say this because Tom Massey had been touting a 2022 endorsement. This was the most expensive House primary, I believe, in the history of House primaries. I'm just reading some data from Ad Impact, which tracks this stuff.

The amount of money spent in supporting Ed Gowryne on ads was $10.9 million. This is a House primary election. In Kentucky. In Kentucky. The TV rates are nothing. The amount of money spent supporting Tom Massey. It's just support. is 7.6 million.

The amount of money spent attacking Tomassi was 7.9 million and the amount of money spent attacking Al-Gayleyn was 6.2 million again in Kentucky. People that you have to understand. That's like basically buying literally every ad slot and then some in this district. They must have been inundated with ads. Yeah. I mean, I'm sure you could not get through a single puzzle on Wheel of Fortune without 15 of these ads. Must have been miserable.

the old galrines on the wheel again. Yeah, right? Well, some of the ads were wild too, right? Like we were talking about this one. Yeah, so I want to talk about this because we should roll the ads. And I would like to talk about the, God knows if we can get exit polls on something like this. Probably not. But I am interested in, there was some polling showing that that Massey was doing very, very well with voters under the age of, I forget what it was.

right was young voters i want to say it was like 18 to 40 or something and that uh gal Ryan was was killing it saddam hussein numbers with with voters over 60 right yeah and bill crystal wrote about this either today or the day before suggesting that this this may show that young republicans are tiring of trump and looking to move away i have a different read on that but i don't want to share until we've looked at the the video well which ad do you want to play so there's the ad there's the ad Gallerine attack ad on Massey, and then there's a Massey attack out on Al-Gallrine. Which one do you want to play first? Why don't we do the... I mean, if it's okay with you boys, I don't want to be driving. You're driving the show. I would say start with the ad against Massey.

Okay, so let's play the Galerine Attack Ad against Tom Massey. The thruple. Which is about a thruple in D.C. There's a lot. I'll say before we get to this, by the end of the campaign, it was so centered around sex. Like, it was all about sex. It was wild shit. Let's play the ad and then we'll get JVL's take on the other side. Massey caught in a thruple in Washington. He's cheating with the squad

on the America First Movement. Massey voted with the squad against Trump's tax cuts. As he voted just the squad against finishing Trump's wall. He voted with them against hiring new border agents. Well, this is worse than adultery. How is that

legal? It shouldn't be. It's all AI and it's insinuating. Because it's a science. Right? I mean, there aren't there, I'm asking this. Maybe I should know this, but I don't. But in the same way that you can't run an ad saying, the New York Times says that you can't make up a fake headline.

Right. With the New York Times logo on it, it says the New York Times says that Thomas Massey is actually a lizard person. Right. Right. Because that's not true. The New York Times has never printed that. You couldn't print it.

But what, how is that any different? from showing AI-generated video purporting to be security camera footage of things which never happened? You know, I don't know. I wish I knew the answer to that. I mean, if I had to guess, because one is implying that a secondary entity in this case, the New York Times printed something illegal, so the Times would have a case that you, I don't know, slandered them or some sort of that. And this is just pure fiction. I will note, like, this is our future, basically. if you've been following the Spencer Pratt mayoral race. It's literally all AI generated ads like fake moms at a yoga studio talking about Spencer

and Pratt. And this is just people, there used to be a little bit of sort of anxiety and, you know, skepticism around doing this type of thing. Like, why would you do that? You can't do that. And now they've just ripped off the Band-Aid. But we're going to field. So your point about this ad, though, is-

Hold on. Before we go a field. Oh, you want to do the other one? I want to do small, no, small digression and ask you, should this be a little? legal because our friend Andrew Weissman has a book out this week, ding, ding, ding. And I mean, his, his big idea is that in the same way that we have all sorts of restrictions on speech around the idea of fraud, right? The guys from Enron were not allowed to just say whatever they want about the company and have it be protected speech. Right. They were committing fraud. And there are

plenty of other realms in which you can't say just anything. It's not protected speech to do. And shouldn't this feel a little bit like fraud to you? It does, but let me paint a making up video of things which didn't happen. Let me, let me do the sort of like the lawyerly thing where I give you the counter example. Okay. Let's say that Ev Galerine hired a Tom S. He looked like, like someone who literally just resembled the guy.

and did an ad featuring him walking around and doing crazy shit around Kentucky. And it never had some disclaimer, but like kind of insinuated that that was Massey, never said it wasn't. Would that be illegal? I mean, I don't. I wish we had a lawyer here, honestly. So long as it has something like, you know, actor portrayal, right? Right, right.

You know, like in the way that when you're watching a history channel and they're showing you video. It's not been for war. You're like, wait a minute, actually. How did they have cameras back then? Right. Yeah. This is, I mean, it just looks like security camera footage. I know, right?

There's something very fraudulent about it. And I do wonder, God, we should have had Weissman on this. He would know. Like, I don't know. All right, let's get back to the actual meat of it, though, beyond the legality of it. So do you want to play, let's play the Massey attack egg, because I want to just go through that. This is the Massey attack ad, which was not AI so much as just pure anti-Semitism and anti-homophobia, basically. Anti-gay, too.

Yeah, anti-gay, homophobia. in anti-Semitism let's play it al-rine is bought and paid for by the lgbtq mafia far left trans activist billionaire paul singer is bringing his trans madness to kentucky singer is spending millions to remove massy the gay mafia will own woke eddie now i want to be clear i don't if that was actually a rainbow star david right yeah i got that i got it went to happen i was like that's not subtle i don't think i just want to be clear i'm not totally sure that was that massy campaigned but it was by a group who was Hack,

Kempanyi Yeah, okay. All right. So like, what's your, what do you divide from these ads? Paul Singer is a right wing billionaire.

Yeah. Not a, not a left wing billionaire. Again, for people who are not plugged into this stuff, Paul Singer is not a left winger. He is a right winger who supports Republican candidates and right wing candidates. He is super pro Israel.

Like, that's true. And he did find a lot of the, that is. Well, he did also. He was also a big funder of the LGBT, of gay rights causes from the Republican perspective. And that obviously was referenced in this.

All right. So like you wanted to set these up because you had some larger point about the issues and the generational divides here. But what was it? Yeah. I mean, my, so what Bill said, said, hey, you know, if this split is real. And if younger Republicans are going with Massey, then maybe this is a sign that like, hey, they're not sold on Trump and the foreign wars and all. I'm sorry. I think it's actually just anti-Semitism. So I think what it is is that the position of Israel in the mind of the American public,

especially over the last few months, has shifted so radically that you may get old boomers who are watching Fox News, who are Republican voters, who are still cool with Israel and don't care and are going to, you know, they'll vote with whoever. but younger Republican voters, I think that that is a huge danger sign. And one of the things that I would be, if I was a young Republican on the make who is looking at the post-Trump future,

I think the future in the Republican Party is coming at the America First Movement and the Trump people basically from like the anti-APEC right. Because I think that's where all the energy is. I don't think you're wrong. Like you see it when Marjorie Taylor Green speaks out now at any point, Lauren Bobert to a degree to obviously Tucker and Candace, but that's like more overtly anti-Semitic.

And you do see a lot of it when you actually dive into some of the replies to J.D. Vance whenever he does a public speech, it's like, hey, you sold out, right? Like, and you're not a shilling for A-PAC. I'd be very curious. And I'm not sure if I am totally bought into the idea that this was the main driver for their votes. although if it's generational, you might be right about that. Ultimately, my Occam's razor explanation is just like, this is a proxy on Trump,

and if you like Trump, you're going to vote against Tom Massey, and that's it. Let's take a quick break, because on the other side, I do want to talk about what this means for the future of elected Republicans currently, because we do have seven months left until these guys are actually thrown out of office. So there's some interesting things that could happen in those seven months. But first, we need to take a break and get a word in from a sponsor. I've been listening to this show for a while. You already know how much I love Sol's out-of-office THC gummies and their sparkling beverages. Now they've launched something new just in time for the summer.

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to Buller Takes. Whatever the moment, there's a soul mood gummy to match. Make today a good day and get yourself some soul gummies. Right now, Seoul is offering our audience 30% off your entire order. Go to getsole.com and use code bulwarktakes. That's getsole.com promo code bulwark takes for 30% off. Get soul, folks, got to get those gummies. I will note, there's another election happening tonight in Georgia, a bunch of elections in Georgia. And one of the races that I was watching is the GOP primary for the governor's nomination. And people might remember the name Brad Raffisberger, who was the Secretary of State who stood up to Donald Trump in 2002 or sorry 20 not looking well he is like way behind so to that point he ran on the republican side right he did he might

have been yeah not because Jeff Duncan Jeff Duncan did go to the Democrats said he's not doing well either to be not doing well I know no all right so something happened so you mentioned Cassidy at the top and for the folks who forgot this weekend because a shit ton of news has happened And since then, Bill Cassidy lost his primary. He finished third in this jungle primary in Louisiana. So he is a lame duck incumbent. And he came back to the Senate today, and he got an applause from his caucus. And then he went out and he voted for the Iran War Powers Resolution.

He had not voted for this go run. He had voted for it like, thinking like 2020 or something like that. But he had been against doing it up until today now that he is liberated and doesn't have to worry about Donald Trump. He also said he's against the ballroom funding. Country first. Yeah, exactly. He's against the $1 billion dollar bond funding, you know, it's today. He didn't announce that before he lost.

So we got a bit of a live wire. I'm not expecting much, but there's clear evidence already that he's kind of done with it. And for seven months, he doesn't really give a shit. And frankly, we'll see. We'll see. Maybe you can explain this to me. Sure. But I have been continually shocked by the lack of vindictiveness in the Republican caucus.

over the last 10 years. Okay. You have people whose entire careers are ended by Donald Trump, who Donald Trump just like beats the living crap out of them. And at the end,

they're like, well, I'm still a Republican. Still Republican. And I just think about, like, if this was a gang, right? If this was sons of anarchy or West Side Story, right? And you're, you're,

You're a jet, right? You're the best you can get. I'm a sharp guy, but yeah, go ahead. One day, a new guy comes in and he takes over the jets, and he looks and he's like, you, you're out. Hate you. You're the worst. And the guys go and they just curb stomp you and they beat you.

Right? And you're tossed out of the gang. Nobody is spiteful and says, well, fuck, I'm going over to the sharks and we're going to kick your ass. Right. Instead, they're just like, they just lie. there and say guys we take you know that is not even that they won't be taken back right well it's played out let's play it out because it's an interesting proposition it's it actually is a

really fascinating proposition john coran who lost trump's endorsement day and will be basically beated by uh ken paxton a total crook and everyone realizes kempaxon is a lunatic crook and should not be in the senate but most of them are just going to go on it but you got john corin you got tom tillis who also was knocked undone by Donald Trump. You have Bill Cassidy, who lost because of Donald Trump. That's three right there. Okay? Yeah.

Is there a fourth that has, I mean, Collins is still up. Murkowski's still holding on. McConnell. There's McConnell. There's four right there that if they really wanted to band together, could, in theory, just kind of create this pact and basically use it as a leverage point. And it's not an interesting.

significant leverage point either right like you need four to get to 51 for Democrats they're there and they could stick it to Trump they have nothing to hold on to they're all be basically done in elected office so what would you do so let's say you have four what what do you do with that for I mean fuck I would switch control the Senate base caucus because I'm a vindictive motherfucker right I mean I look at this and I'm like you know fuck me no fuck you right in these they with conditions with conditions they're going to conditions, right? They're going to have to, you can't just do liberal policy. They would need something. Well, you can't get any liberal policy through anyway, right? It was just, you know what? We're going to,

we're going to, we're going to fuck all your shit up. You think you're going to confirm a bunch of judges? No, you're not confirming anybody for the next few months, right? You think you're going to pass your stupid ballroom. You're not passing anything. We're going to, we're going to start holding hearings in the Senate on Iran tomorrow, right? Right. This, this, your slush fund, we're going to call witnesses tomorrow because we are, there's a new majority in control of the Senate judiciary or whoever, right? Sure. Pick a committee.

And I just, yeah, you have subpoena power, right? And you can start investing. You could start investing. Call witnesses on Epstein. Sure. And I just look at this. And Sarah's theory is that they just don't want the trouble when they go back home because they're going to be at Kroger.

or they're going to be at the country club and they don't want their old Republican friends to look and be like, why'd you make so much trouble? Why'd you make trouble? Why'd you got to rock the boat? I just look at that and I think to myself, you people want to be liked too much. Who cares? Right? I mean, the world, I don't know.

Like, I just, where's the House of Cards mentality? Where's the, like, you know, I'm a U.S. senator. You know, I'm not going to take guff from no one. And instead, these guys are all cowards. They're really cowards. I wonder if it's the country club that the country club conversations they're worried about versus like legitimate fear factor of crazy mega folks coming at them. I mean, I don't think that's insignificant, right? I don't know.

Maybe. I never lived in Kentucky. Maybe down in the holler. I mean, I watched Justified. I never lived in the holler, but I did watch Justified. maybe Walton Goggins is going to come out. I don't know. Do you have any sympathy for Massey on this stuff?

Because here's my question. Because my question for you, I get torn a lot between the, oh yeah, see, we were right all along, right? Your career is torched now too, motherfucker. And I get torn between that and, well, he did the right thing.

And he did stand up to Trump on the Epstein stuff. And welcome to the coalition. welcome to the resistance. I mean, he's not going to join the resistance, you know. No, but I don't expect him to join the decisions.

I guess my, my line should be good enough. What should be good enough? This is where I, what is enough of the half a loaf for us, Sam? Tell me, talk me off the ledger. So I was,

I think it's Tim I was talking about this with, but like my line really comes down to, did you go down trying to appease Trump and face planning and looking, like a, you know, a chud or whatever. Or did you do what Massey did and, you know, just basically principal it out and, you know, you lost. Like there's more Liz Cheney and Massey, I suppose, than there is in like Bill Cassidy,

to me, like that is about the worst you can do. I mean, what Bill Cassidy, to me, what he did was unforgivable, right? Like, he went and he, a doctor, voted for RFK Jr., concocted all these fake promises that RFK Jr. had made to him that he sure was going to have. happened and then lost anyway in a humiliating fashion I have like no sympathy for that I don't I just nothing about that was a profile and courage at least with Massey he was you know he knew what he was going to do was getting in trouble he did anyway and then he said you know fucking I'm just going to keep doing it and I do have I do I find that way more admirable and yeah he's not going to be

resistance person but Tomassie's never was never going to be a resistance person he's going to do you know Tomassie things after this or he'll just disappear like a lot of these people do right a lot of these people just go off in the distance and we know hear from them again so yeah think he'll like just like just in amosh where's just in amosh these days right where's justin amash yeah do you think he'll apply to the compensation fund yeah he was i feel like he he he might deserve he might be more deserving than some of these yeah definitely has gotten his fair share of uh weaponized administration against him um all right let before we we we

We close this out. A couple things. One is the commenters are wondering, can Tom Assy run as an independent? Our boy, Matt Marshall, our producer of the show, he says the candidate filing deadline ends on June 2nd. I'm no expert on Kentucky law, but if that's the case, I guess he could. We'll see if he does. What's the next, but my question for you to close to that is, what's the next seven months look like here? Like, you know, obviously I think we're at a place where anyone who wants a future in Republican politics at this point knows you can't cross Trump ever.

because you're more likely than not to lose. And we're also at a place where a semi-reasonable number of Republicans have lost because of Trump but are still holding office. So what does the next seven months look like? So my, I mean, my theory on this is largely shaped by 2018. And, you know, 2018 was the moment where in any other circumstance, the Republican Party would have started cutting loose from Donald Trump, right? I mean, those losses were enormous.

Yeah. And instead they went the other direction, right? And so I, you know, I had thought my theory going in 2018 and was, oh, well, this will be the tipping point at which point Republicans hop off board. But it turned out the tipping point actually come much earlier. And it had tipped the other direction. You know, Republicans were just all the way bought in. And I think it's going to be very soon. What was the tipping point that came earlier?

I think it was the actual. November 2016 right I mean after Trump was elected they all just decided we're in for a penny and for a pound oh and I did not realize that Tom Massey speaking maybe let's take a listen to him quickly if we can younger demographic we we we USA USA USA you are you are Patriots and you will inherit this country, and you will make it better, and I am hopeful because of that. Thank you. We accidentally, I think, I accidentally, I didn't mean to do this. It started out as an election, and it turned into a movement.

We, fascist, fascist, fascist, fascist, fascist, I mean, I think people, if you're not, if you're not tired of politics, if you're not jaded, if you're not. cynical and so many people are. You know, the people that, you know, want somebody that'll go along to get along, I've never heard of that strategy, but that seems to be what the voters want. That's what's been promised to them, but not the young voters. I mean, we stirred up something. There is a yearning in this country for somebody who will vote for principals over party. You all, you all don't like bullies and you don't tolerate them, and I love you for it. You also, yeah.

They couldn't listen. Hey. If I know, if I'd known this speech, if I'd known this speech was going to be this fun to give, I would have come out 15 minutes sooner. Look, for 14, for 14 years. Those SOBs in Washington tried to buy my vote. They couldn't buy it. Why did the race get so expensive? Because they decided to buy the seat.

And it got real expensive for them. Look, they used a lot of dirty tricks, but we stayed the course. We did not. We didn't bend a knee. We didn't throw a foul ball. We didn't do any of those things. We didn't kneecap anybody. We had lots of opportunities to try a lot of stuff like that,

and we never did it. We ran a clean race. And there's, by the way, after 18 months of a blackout of not letting me on Fox, they finally let me on Fox today four hours into the election. Their slop is selling, so they'll keep selling it. But listen, I got to watch. Fox also for the first time in 18 months. And there was the president talking about, by the way, while gas is almost $5 and diesel's almost six,

they're talking about this big ballroom they're going to build and it looks like the Roman Empire, architecture from the Roman Empire. I see a few analogies there and people are just trying to make ends meet. But we were promised that Miriam Adelson would pay for that ballroom. But she's... No, Adelson. There you go, JPL. They, she spent so much money in this race. They're going to have to reduce the footprint of that thing.

But here's one thing I saw in Fox. They were saying, oh, my goodness, you know, we're ready for war. There's about this, we're about to restart this war. We were supposed to restart this war. today, but we can't restart this war today. The war can't start today. They said we got away today. And then it occurred to me, where was the secretary at war yesterday?

He was here. Listen, look on the bright side. No more wars, no more wars, no more wars. No more wars. Guys, knock that off, you're gonna make me feel good about losing. What I wanted to do was give you all credit. When they saw the influencers here, they panicked. They sent the secretary at war here.

And you stopped the war for a day. All right. We know we don't want a war. And we know why young people are, and middle-aged people are against the next war. Because we'd be the ones fighting it. They're trying to bring back the draft. Screw that. We're not going to fight.

we're not going to fight some other country's wars are we no damn what else what else do we stand for not we don't want to send our money some other country okay i'll go for that i'm gonna do that i've got a bill to do that i've also got a bill to end the ed in the department of education Rand Paul says he wants to pass a law that you need one day to read 10 pages of every bill. I ask Rand, what are you going to do about my bill that's one sentence long to end the Department of Education? That'd be like five minutes to read that bill. By the way, you know how many pages you have to Seem False Transparency Act was? Two pages.

We don't want, we're tired of meddling overseas. We can't afford it. our empire will collapse if we kept sending our money to other countries. I never picked a fight with the country that's tried to take me out here because I've never, but I've never voted for foreign aid to any country. We've got to take care of America first. America first. America first.

America first. America first. America first. America first. America first. By the way, there was, you remember that organization that Klaus Schwab started called the World Economic Forum? He said, they said you should eat bugs. Do you want to eat bugs? They said you'll own nothing and be happy about it. You want to do that? Well, guess what happened? Guess what happened to Klaus's CEO. He was in the Epstein files. He had to resign. We took out the CEO of the World Economic Forum with a two-page bill.

What else are we for? Look, for years I've been standing up for the Second Amendment, the First Amendment, the Fourth Amendment, the Fifth Amendment, the Fifth Amendment, the Tenth Amendment. I just realized the Seventh Amendment is under attack. It's because I serve on the Judiciary Committee. The Seventh Amendment is your right to a jury trial. They've taken it away for vaccines. If you get hurt, you can't sue for vaccines.

They're trying to take it away for pesticides. They're trying to take it away for these data centers. No. We've been fighting that back. So that's part of that's an amendment that frankly, I didn't think I was going to have to fight for, but I've been fighting for it in D.C. And we need to keep fighting for the Seventh Amendment, too. These corporations want get out of court free cards.

We're not going to give them one. What else is part of our coalition? Cutting Doge, cutting spending. They ran Doge out of town. Elon Musk found out it was easier to land a rocket backwards. It was easier to get a car to drive itself. It was easier to put Internet on Antarctica than it was to cut $100 of spending in Washington. DC. It's a tough problem, but we're not going to give up on that either.

Maha. Is anybody here for MAHA? Does anybody want to eat poison? Do you want the government telling you what to eat? Do you want the government telling you to put a needle in your arm? I don't either. That's why I've been fighting all of that stuff. We need food freedom. We need medical freedom. We need all of those freedoms. All right. We can keep monitoring this for a little bit. We need. But let's just, if something happens of note, we'll go back to there. But I think we get the gist. You were prescient, man.

A lot of, a lot of Israel references there. So here's the thing. There is a coherent platform here. Right. And it is a melding of the Maha stuff, the anti-VAC stuff, anti-Israel stuff, anti-corporate stuff. And I mean, you know, you've got Marjorie Taylor Green, you've got Massey, you've got Tucker. If somebody would really try to project that forward, because right now it's all just sort of flopping around on the ground, right?

It's like a, you know, three fish out of water. But if somebody were to say, like, no, we're going to make a run directly at Trump and the MAGA. with this. That's interesting. Yeah, but what does it get you? That is a nickel, man. Well, that's what does it get you? Well, that's the question.

Right. So you start that on, you know, in January of 20, 27, right? And the idea is, look at this. The socialists are in control of the house and the John Thuron, is just as bad and look what Trump did, look what gas is. We need to reform the reform, right? I mean, now, I don't think there's enough juice there because I don't think any of the stuff is principled.

I think all of the MAGA stuff is really about, is he hurting the people I hate? Yeah. That's what I think the heart of MAGA is. It doesn't it, but doesn't it come down to, sure, but doesn't it come down to like, I think this sort of elephant in the room, the kind of big unknown, here is is trump going to be how long is trump going to be vindictive for right like in theory he's done in 2028 okay so like what does that look like when he's not in office assuming he's not an office i mean they a i don't assume it and uh and b i i know i'm insane here i cannot foresee a universe in which

Trump does not see himself as the big boss of the whole world so long as he draws breath. He's proven in his successor's Mediative. His right. Or his successor is Don Jr. Right. I mean, this is the clearest way for that to be is for it to be Don Jr., which is why, again, I'm sorry. I just, I still think that there will be a lot of, I think the most likely person to be the Republican nominee in 2028 will have the last name Trump. I don't disagree.

I think Don Jr.'s prospects are wildly underrated as the next nominee. Wildly underrated. I mean, he barely gets talked about. And it's very hard to see Trump suddenly being like, you know what, I really like JD. I know you've been writing about it. Don't worry. You're giving me your kudos. Thank you.

Thank you. You deserve anything. Pat me on the head, Sam. Okay, there you go. It's very hard to see him being like, oh, yeah, I like JD. I'm fine with GD. I'm fine with GD. or Ruby. Like, no, it just doesn't really compute with his character.

It's wild to think that he can, as a lame duck at 37% approval, have this much say over everyone's behavior. But he does. I know. This is the thing, right? This is why, again, I ultimately don't think that an America first challenger can win. But I'd be interested in it because part of me does wonder, well, is there any principle in any of them? No, that's the lesson from this. I really think there isn't.

That's the entire lesson from this, right? It's like it doesn't matter. If there were principle in it as we discussed at the top, Massey would have been totally fine here. Every transgression Massey made was something Trump himself had stated he publicly wanted. It's all, it's so it's principle less. There's nothing about it that involves principle. It is literally, does he perceive you as his foreign enemy?

I wish, it's like gone underappreciated, but the that he went out of his way Trump to say let's let's get rid of Lauren Bobert whose primary had passed that I mean it's just wild to me there these people are not like moderates at all that their transgression is the Epstein files that's it's it and but the other lesson of this and I know we want to wrap up um what I don't know if you remember Lauren Bobert was pushed out of her district in Colorado because there were a bunch of very very respectable conservative Republicans who thought that, well, she's a joke. And so they went and got Jeff Hurd, I think, to run. And so Bobert switched districts and Jeff Hurd, the good Republican guy was going to push back

against Trump because he was a normie Republican law. And it turns out actually Lauren Bobert was much more independent than Jeff Hurd was. Jeff Hurd is just rubber stamped everything that Trump has asked because he's a normie. And there is a lesson in all this. And my, my belief, is that the true believers, like the few people who are not in on the joke, but who believed all of this stuff, they'll be the ones that get off the boat. And the supposedly respectable Republicans who are absolutely in on the joke and who don't believe in any of this stuff and who regard Trump as a bore and a clown and all this stuff, those guys will not get off until the Titanic is six feet underwater. Well, it makes me back to, it brings me back to your great MTG piece whenever it was that she was resigning from office about, you know, she needed something to believe in throughout her life. And CrossFit was one of those things. And then Trumpism was one of those things.

And then, you know, when you wake up, you're like, oh, my God, it's all sort of a joke. It has to be very jarring emotionally for you. And so, like, the true believers are the ones who are going to be like, yeah, what is what's going on here? Yeah. And yeah, it sucks. This fucking shit sucks. All right, buddy, I'm going to wrap it up there. Thank you for doing this.

For those folks watching, thank you for watching us. Tom Massey, as we noted, has lost his primary. Just another day in Trump land where retribution is the currency of the day. Subscribe to Bullwork take. Subscribe to the Bullwork. We got a show coming up if you're in San Diego tomorrow night. Bullwork takes, bulwark.com slash events if you want last minute tickets. Till then, JVL.

Take care, bud. See you, buddy.