Bulwark Takes - Can We Talk About F*cking Eggs?! | Tim On Vibe Check

Episode Date: February 12, 2025

Tim joined Vibe Check to chat with Sam and Zach about normal gays” for Trump, and why the Democratic party has seemingly not pushed back against Trump’s latest political moves. Subscribe here: https://open.spotify.com/episode/6opdmdnDLOwgOcK1LX7VuG And watch more from the Vibe Check crew: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5A-ZXkIy58U

Dear McDonald's, your breakfast menu, fire. Tens across the board. I could be happy with anything, even though I order the same thing every time. Thanks for not judging me. I'll try something new next time. Maybe. Score a two for $5 deal on a sausage McMuffin with egg and more. Limited time only.

Price and participation may vary. Cannot be combined with any other offer. Single item at regular price. Hey, y'all. It's Tim. I wanted to do something a little more chill today, something a little different. And I wanted to hang out with some folks. We could talk about some gay stuff.

Yeah, talk a little politics, but talk about how we're keeping our vibes up. So I went and sat out with my pals at the podcast Vibe Check. Sam Sanders and Zach Stafford are the co-host. It's a weekly show produced by Sirius XM. And each week they bring their little text chain to life with their other pal, Saeed Jones. Saeed was out today. So I got to kind of join the group chat. I got to go hang out. Their show covers news, culture, everything else in between. They talk about their feelings. You know how I like feelings talk. So because their show is audio only, we thought we'd bring the video version of it to you guys here. Maybe you can find a new pod that you like, something that's a little bit less Trump derangement syndrome-y than what I'm giving you

every day here on the youtube page so i really hope you enjoy it i love sam i love zach they're great guys and uh and we have a fun chat so up next is my little guest host slot on vibe check enjoy we usually open up episodes with me saying hey ladies or some variant of that but in honor of today's special guest i'm gonna say who dat hose who dat hose h-e-a-u-x yeah yeah yeah well damn there you go uh i'm sam sanders and i'm zach safford and you're listening to vibe check and i'm looking at my screen and i don't know this man sam who's this man in front of us tell Tell our listeners who you are. I'm a little different, Saeed.

It's just a little change. My name's Tim Miller. I'm over at the Bulwark. I don't know. We'll have to figure out what my overlap with traits are with Saeed over the course of the hour. I'll do my best. I said you're a New Orleans. I am. I'm a New Orleans. I'm here. That's where I live.

It is great down here. People should come visit. We got Mardi Gras coming up. We got Jazz Fest. So I need it. Okay. Yeah. And New Orleans has Tim Miller.

So it's so great to have you. For listeners who don't know, Tim Miller is an incredible person. I followed his work for many, many years. And Tim Miller is one of the few MSNBC opinion people that my mom texts me about being like, how's Tim doing? It's okay.

She's one day text me. She goes, Tim looks tired. I said, mom, we aren't that close. Like, let's just be clear. Tell your mom to be nicer. No, she's being nice. She was just like, he's on. I forget what happened to him, but you'd been working so much.

And she was like, he looks tired. He needs to go rest. Like she like thinks of you as her child. So anyway, eye cream recommendations for me you know because i do i get them i get those bags i get what my mom calls the uncle alce and so when i'm tired you can see it i need a new i need kind of a new makeup regimen i think you know what's been blessing me at 40 was that no didn't know about its powers till like the last year or two i I slather that stuff on, man.

Okay. I love that. I'm taking notes. Well, Tim is here to do a really big Trump episode with us, guys. You know, Trump has been on a rampage of many sorts, and we want to go deep into what it all means, specifically from a gay point of view. So today we'll be diving in first about the normal gays who vote for Trump and why they all believe Trump is the most gay president ever, which I can't wait to talk to Tim about because I've been around Trump

and he has some flamboyant tendencies, but I never thought of him as the most gay president. He's given Queen on the scene all the time. He should do drag. He should do drag. He does drag. It's so performative. He is already doing drag.

I mean, have you ever seen him without the makeup? He's a completely different person. He's already doing drag. His musical tastes are way gayer than mine. I mean, the set list that he puts on at his rallies, it could be like the Marie's Crisis set list. That's true. I'm Marie's Crisis.

What's his drag name, Tim? Oh boy, now you really put me on the spot. I'm not going to take the whole episode to think about it. Take your time. We'll come back to that. Yeah, we'll come back to that. But before we come back to that, we're going to talk about the Democrats and where are they? They're definitely not at Trump's drag brunch, you know, for the game of him as a drag queen. They're not showing up to that or doing much there. So we're going to ask Tim, where are they and what should they be doing? And what should we all be doing to deal with the new Trump administration? But before we get into all of that, let's do our typical check in. So ladies, Tim, our new lady of the court,

how you doing? How's life? Are you rested? Hey, ladies, I'm feeling better now. I don't get to call boys ladies on my youtube why not i don't know i should i do that with all the other all the other boys you're wearing pearls like go there i know they're all they're all just given so het you know it's all that rose at the bulwark uh besides me so i love it my vibe ladies is like the closer in my home it's great new orleans the vibe is great i already mentioned it you know we've got we got some good stuff coming up that can be a distraction for everything once you get outside orleans parish i think the vibe the vibe is pretty shaky out there

but uh that's kind of how i'm doing i'm saying more about that i'm i'm i'm very curious as to what you experience once you leave the parish well Well, I just mean that, look, like I moved here in part because I have a lot of friends who don't care about politics. And I mean, who care about it at a basic level that everybody does who aren't political junkies, I guess is a better way of putting it. You know, they have other interests and I know them from my pre-politics life. And so it's like good for me to be here. You know, it's like I'm a little seven year old. We get to go to the basketball court. We go over to a friend's house.

We go to a crawfish boil. Life is good. The Trump of it all is hanging over us, but not as heavily as elsewhere. And I don't know, man. Once I go to Baton Rouge, though, for a football game, there's a lot of it's a lot of stuff around and then you know once i get outside of my my irl life and and get onto the internet and get onto the get onto the tubes and start having to talk to people i you know i mean it's just it's bad out there i mean i think that i think that we're going to go through a pretty rocky period uh for i think

it's going to actually be worse than the first time around. So, you know, that's why I've got my little bubble of vibes here to try to keep saying. But besides that, I think it's going to be a little rocky. I don't know. As the left is saying right now, you got to preserve and build your own community. You got to do it. I'm out here community organizing, me and Barack Obama. I love that. Well, Sam, how are you doing today?

You're in the studio. I'm in the studio. I'm sipping hot tea and not coffee because I'm on the verge of getting sick, but I rebuke that. Not going to happen. I don't speak conversations unexpectedly that I feel might show the way forward for Democrats between now and the midterms. On two separate occasions, I've either mentioned eggs or just been seen with a dozen eggs, and it's all anyone wants to talk about. I was taping a podcast with our friend Lacey Mosley of Scam Goddess. I mentioned having scrambled eggs for breakfast. This led to a five minute discussion of damn, how rich are you? And then I said, I scramble my other day getting stuff. I got my eggs at the checkout

line. The lady behind me is like, a dozen eggs must be nice. Then the cashier starts talking about it. Then the guy in line behind the lady starts talking about it. Then we all start talking about the eggs and the price of eggs. And we're all looking at each other, deciding how much we can talk about politics. And then me, you know me, Zach, I'm a talk. We start talking about Trump and tariffs in the checkout line. And it made me say to myself, this is not real. Oh, no, no, Tim. This is Sam Sanders.

You're at the Piggly Wigglers. Pavilions on Jefferson. Pavilions on Jefferson in Los Angeles. And then we just start talking about fucking eggs and like politics. And I was like, oh my God, why aren't Democrats talking about eggs every goddamn day? Okay, so- Why aren't Democrats talking about eggs every goddamn day?

Okay, so two things. One, I agree with you. We should talk more about eggs. I was in Utah recently for like 10 days. I walked into a Target, saw that eggs were $12 in Utah and Pace in Utah. And I said, I get it. I too maybe would have considered Donald Trump in this moment if I lived in Pace in Utah. I I said, I get it. I too maybe would have considered Donald Trump

in this moment if I lived in Pace in Utah. I would have been like, okay, what have the Democrats done for me lately? Not my scrambled eggs. But two, to Sam Sanders' talkative point, Tim, what you should know about Sam Sanders is that he will talk to anyone in public at length about anything and stay.

I'll cancel plans to talk to a stranger. If it keeps going. All this to say, I feel like Democrats are lost right now. And we'll talk more about it. They don't have enough time. I just want to focus on you for one second. Because I feel like I'm in the top 2% for extroversion. I'm very chatty.

I love chatting with strangers. I love humans. Yeah. Your story, though, feels insane to me. It felt insane to me, too, because I wasn't trying to talk to a woman. I'm talking to somebody about tariffs. You managed to turn purchasing eggs into a tariff conversation right there? You looked at me.

And then you canceled your plan? I didn't cancel those plans, but I'm saying I would. All I'm saying is by the time I left that checkout line, we had mentioned politics briefly. And I'm just saying that, like, I want Democrats to think about. Once you had your eggs, like once you had paid, did you continue the conversation? A little bit. While she was getting rung up, did you sit there and continue the conversation? Yes. Yes.

I fully believe this. I thought i was friendly that's that's another larger point here's my larger point and this is like the vibe that i'm thinking about it's like how do democrats find a way to talk about a thing that everyone is willing to engage in like that left right center whatever it's like what is it and i'm kind of like is it just the freaking price of stuff is it the the price of eggs, the price of groceries? I remember when I was a kid, whenever my mother wanted to just like shut down a conversation, she would just say, well, what does that have to do with the price of eggs?

And she'd say it and you'd be like, oh, yeah, you're right. I just I don't know. I'm stuck on the eggs this week. I'm rambling now, but I'm stuck on the fucking eggs. It's about people's money. Can we talk about fucking eggs? Can you get AOC in the capital Rotunda holding a dozen eggs? Very carefully.

You don't want to die. Yeah, that would be a mess in a lot of different ways. I've rambled now. Zach, what is your vibe? Are you talking to strangers? Oh, wait. I have been talking to strangers. And that's what brings me to a point I want to tell Tim on the mic, which is a compliment.

I, as people know, go on my morning walks. I get up really early. I walk. I listen to podcasts. For the past week, I've been listening to podcasts. Get your Starbucks. Yep, my Starbucks. Wow, expose me.

I actually don't anymore. I used to, and I'm not even lying. Oh, you had a Starbucks in the meeting yesterday. Well, because, wow, we are really, yeah. So, one, I have gotten a pot. I don't know why Sam's coming at me so aggressively because he's just talking about eggs. But two points. I did have a Starbucks yesterday because I was running late and had to go to Starbucks. Sorry about that. But I have. Look at this cup. This is not a Starbucks cup.

That's coffee. I'm sorry. That was not nice. You're fine. You're fine. We have moved on. We have a pot. It's beautiful. Now my partner makes coffee in the morning and it's wonderful. This is not the point. I was out for a walk the other day and I got stopped by some Vibe Check listeners. And they were like, oh, my God, you're walking. What's up? We'd met at a live show.

We're kiki and kiki. And I was listening to Tim Miller in my ear talking to Ezra Klein. And I was like giggling because I feel like you came at Ezra Klein in the funniest ways that just really cracked me up. You started out being like, I like your colleague better. I like the guy you work with better. It's true. People need to neg Ezra. All right.

This is the thing. I feel like it's my one thing that I can bring to my new friends now that I hang out with Libs. Libs are just so agreeable and nice all the time. And it's okay to just give somebody a little shit. I agree. That's why Sam. Who gives Ezra shit? Nobody gives Ezra shit. It's always like, Ez's okay to just give somebody a little shit, you know? I agree. That's why Sam. Who gives Ezra shit? Nobody gives Ezra shit.

It's always like, Ezra's so great. Ezra's so smart. Like he deserves a little shit. Can I tell you an Ezra secret? I mean, not a secret for him. I know some folks who work at the New York Times and we gossip, all journalist gossip. And they call Ezra Klein's recent glow up,

you know, the facial hair has changed. He's gotten a little, you know, more glamorous for the camera. He's a bigger star. They call his glow up getting know the facial hair has changed he's gotten a little you know more glamorous for the camera he's a bigger star they call his glow up getting barbara road he got barbara that's what they say at the times wait that's breaking news that is hilarious yes that's amazing oh yeah he he full barbara road well he he has he has gotten pretty hot the new camera angles for his show, bravo. Production dollars well spent, everybody at the New York Times. But you were gagging me over how you were handling him. So I'm like giggling to myself walking. I get stopped by some Vibe Check

listeners and I say, oh, I'm listening to Tim Miller and Ezra Klein in conversation. And I was like, oh, you know, he's going to be on our show this week, Tim Miller. And this one white woman goes, I won't say her name. She goes, I don't know who he is. Let me pull him up. And she opens up your podcast. She goes, oh, he's cute. You know me. I'd do anything for a white man. And I was like, what? Is this a black woman? No, it was a white woman. And I died. She was like, I'm a basic white girl. A white woman said, I'll do anything for a white man. I'm paraphrasing. I may be embellishing that. But she was like, I love a basic, not a basic. She was like, I'm a basic white girl. I love a white man. So I was like i'm a basic white girl i love a white man so i was like okay girl what are you she did not for the record call tim basic she said he was very

handsome and i was like oh okay she called herself basic and anyway so tim thank you for coming to the show you must bring good energy because i'm getting stopped in the streets with people saying that you're so handsome so i'll i will take it i mean you know it would have been a little bit better of a story if you're like in west hollywood and you're like i was talking to this you know 28 year old post twink and he was like oh he's so handsome like that would have been like really but hey moms moms that think i'm handsome i we have we appreciate moms too you gotta you gotta get them and she was in like our general age range so she like if you decided to go back to being straight she's available oh okay all right well that's as a possibility but anyway beyond that i'm very

excited for today and excited to jump in here for those listening who are asking where saiyah jones saiyah jones is at harvard in conversation with roxanne gay for the next few days which you can watch live on zoom i believe so google that i don't know where it's at yeah i know super liberal you know harvard roxanne gay won't even talk to tim miller he's like you know i'm not having that conversation i'm going to harvard so no he did want to be here today he loves tim miller so um he will be back with us another time inside will be joining us i like like him better than Ezra too. Before we get into this episode, we want to thank all of you who keep listening to this show

each and every week. Thank you. Be sure to check us out on Amazon Music where there are new episodes and don't forget to email us anytime at vibecheckatstitcher.com. And if you want more of us,

go to our pumpkin patch. We are on Patreon, patreon.com slash vibecheck. For the last few days, I've been posting to the group chat and the Patreon my favorite obscure Prince tracks, demos, warm-ups, sound checks. We're going deep because the halftime show of this last few days has made me think a lot about Prince, who's had the greatest halftime show of all time remember him doing purple rain in the rain come on iconic not to not to make it about him uh let's move on from talking about a prince to talking about a queen

donald trump shall we who who thinks he is a king look at that look at us paul redbull. Okay, okay. With that, let's talk more about eggs. Let's jump in. Let's do it. Ad break. All right, listeners. First up, we're talking about the gays and Donald Trump.

So we're diving... Let me do it again. So listeners, today we're diving into the alarming and escalating attacks on LGBTQ plus rights under Trump's second administration. So since returning to office, Trump has wasted no time in enacting policies that directly target our community. From reinstating the ban on transgender military service to removing federal funding recognize only two sexes, erasing trans identity entirely and purging LGBTQ plus content from federal websites. These moves align disturbingly with the roadmap laid out by Project 2025, a conservative manifesto

that aims to reshape America by dismantling hard won rights. So ladies, how did we get here? And Tim, I'm very interested in hearing how you talk about this because you've worked so much with the Republican Party and have seen how we've built a roadmap to this moment. So you go first. What do you think of this moment? Is it shocking? Is it more cute than the last time? How do you look at all of this?

Yeah. Oh, man. And there's a lot there. And I forgot to mention the fact that he's renaming Queens also New York. Wait he is? Last I heard was Gulf of America or whatever. Gulf of America and now Kings. I was just

a bad joke. I wouldn't believe it though. Given what this man has been doing I would have believed it. Here's the thing I think in this situation it's important to really like disaggregate the attack on trans folks because they're specifically trying to divide people in the lgbt community and that's intentional and they've said so and it's working i mean the one

of the memos this one is not a joke was that they i forget if it was State Department or which of the departments was going to, you know, just put LGB. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Right. Like it's no they're no longer writing LGBT when, you know, you're talking about, you know, when it's kind of relevant to whatever're trying to divide the community. The attacks are on trans folks most overtly, particularly the military ban that you mentioned. And I think that this time they feel like they have the culture on their side. Whether or not that's true, we can talk about. But I think that they are going to be more aggressive than they were the first term. I mean, you remember, it feels so long ago but like there was a backlash against the republican trans bathroom ban in north carolina yeah like they had to back off of it right because major sporting events said we we won't go sports like you can't do this and business

stop that yeah like paypal yeah so they had a big so they backed off of it so you know i think that this time they feel like they have a lot more running room to do this. I think that in a lot of ways, the scariest stuff that's happening is probably going to be at the state level and local level because there won't be federal protections, right? Like I don't, besides the stuff that you mentioned, I don't know that there's a lot of like proactive, like anti-LGBT legislation they're going to be doing, but there's not going to be, you know, look, the Pam Bondi department of justice is not going to be, you know, some company or some school district that discriminates, you know, on the basis of sex or gender identity. So like, there's not going to be a lot of protections for people that are attacked that are particularly living in, um, in, in, in certain communities, red,

red throughout the country. So I think that stuff is super scary. I do sometimes have to tell my LNG buddies to chill out a little bit. The concern for me is lower on things like them coming for Obergefell. They passed recently the Defense of Marriage Act under Biden. That was one of Biden's accomplishments. I don't, I'm not saying it's a 0% chance they try to overturn Obergefell. Like we've seen a lot of very

unexpected things happening, but I think that is far lower on their priority list in part because they are trying to appeal to the quote-unquote normal gays and like wedge the trans community against them. So that's kind of my like assessment of the state of play. I find it really interesting that you bring up the fact that there's like this divide and conquer amongst the alphabet people. There is a 2017 Family Research Council panel that had someone named Mel Kilgannon say back then, and this is in Vox quoted recently, she told this group of people gathered who were planning all of this stuff, she said, quote, if you separate the T from the alphabet soup, we'll have more success. They were saying that back in 2017.

And I keep thinking about what is different between targeting trans people now and targeting gay marriage during the era of George W. Bush. Something happened really quickly when we saw the drastic astronomical shift on a public opinion around queer people in those years, everyone kind of realized that they knew someone gay, knew someone lesbian, and it was much harder to be mean to this group when you saw them in your neighborhoods, in your schools, etc. I think what the GOP knows this time is that trans people are 1% or less of the population and that most people who are the loudest about trans people actually don't have experience with them. And that makes it easier for those messages to stick.

And that worries me. And it makes me worry more this time than when I saw the attacks on queer marriage before. But I also wonder if any of this is actually working. You know, there was a lot of coverage about that Trump campaign ad in which a voice says, Kamala is for they them, President Trump is for you. The ad itself got a lot of play. But folks who studied the efficacy of the ad said it really didn't change people's minds about Harris. It distracted from other issues, but they did find that it increased viewers' negativity about trans people. And so I have this big question for Zach, for Tim,

for all y'all. It's like, do they want to do this to actually demonize trans people? Do they want to do this to give the base what they want? Or are they doing this just to distract you from talking about the x i don't think this is a distraction go ahead zach okay no you go first i want to hear you first because i yeah i don't think this is a distraction okay um i look there's a lot of movement conservatives that are passionate about this issue they've been talking about it for

a long time there are people their parents and i'm not i'm not saying fair unfair right but their parents i hear it just you know when i talk about getting out of orleans parish going up to baton rouge yeah here talk to some of my baton rouge parents friends you know they're cons they have concerns that i think are crazy but like about oh you know in the schools there's you know my kids want, you know, in the schools, there's, you know, my kids want to, you know, are changing their pronouns and kids are going by different names and kids are identifying as cats. That one's not really true. You know, but there is, you know, that there's these things happening in schools that I don't like, that makes me scared, that I'm worried about. So I think that there's a real voter base who have concerns about gender identity stuff in schools. So no, man, I think that I don't think

that this one is a distraction. I think that they are coming for the trans community. They're coming on gender issues, and they're coming for kids. You know, I worry about, like, you know, look, I'm sure we'll talk about the normal gays that are for Trump. But most of these people aren't like, hey, most people don't have kids. And if they do, they are wealthy, and they live in blue cities where their kids are not really going to be targeted. Right? Kids, if you are a gay gay couple, and you live in Shreveport, right, school starts to do it making rules for like the teachers, you know, you can't talk, you know, the kid can't talk about their parents, the teacher can't talk, you know, you can't talk, you know, the kid can't talk about their parents. The teacher can't talk, you know, they can't do family trees. Who knows?

Like all the don't say gay stuff, which is still, and I know people stop talking about that, but those are still in place in a lot of red states. They want, like, they want to be able to do that. They want to erase LGBT people from the schools. They want to turn back the clock to a time where they felt more comfortable about the types of topics and materials that kids were talking about in schools. They want people in the closet. And they want to target trans people because they think it's politically effective and they're worried about what's happening with their kids. So I think that they are really serious.

Okay. Yeah. Follow up. Oh, go ahead. Do follow up. I mean, my immediate ask then, it's like, have you heard any Democrat anywhere in the country speak to this issue in a way that is helpful and possibly changes some of those minds? Silence. Look, I think that folks are trying. I'd have to like really like review everybody's statements. And I ask this because it's like,

I will go home to Texas and I'll be around the same kind of parents briefly then I leave. And I'm just like, what Democrat would they listen to on trans issues that might move them further away from being so negative about it? I don't know. to be a better year for Democrats. But I thought he was pretty compelling in talking about this. He talked about how that ad you referenced, he would hear from people, you know, in his district that he represented.

He kind of represents this interesting district in suburban Dallas that like does have a big black population, but like also includes like George W. Bush lives there, right? Like includes like some rich white neighborhoods too because of the way that they've gerrymandered the districts. And he said, he talked to working class people that were worried that he was like, you know,

for using their money to do reassignment surgeries for murdering illegal immigrants or whatever. And, you know, I think he had a pretty compelling way of just sort of talking about it, like a dad who was a football player, who cares about his kids, who, who you know wants people to have basic rights and protections is not for you know whatever insane you know far-right conspiracy is in vogue at the moment but like you have to speak to it i do think that the democrats thought the right strategy during the campaign was just kind of ignore it and hope it goes away i don't really have that word and to me i just look i think that the military one if a democrat called me and asked

me for advice on how to talk about this i would say don't throw you know youth issues under the bus don't let's force like don't you know i'm not telling you to throw certain trans people under the bus what i'm telling you focus on the military though i think you can make a compelling message it's like this is bullshit like these are patriots that are serving their country that are putting their life on the line and a fucking draft dodging queen and orange makeup is banning them is kicking them out of the military yeah fuck that fuck him yeah you know and i would say there are ways to do that i agree with that so much when i was the editor-in-chief of The Advocate, you know, we do a lot of digital reporting.

We did a lot. I feel like a lot more reporting back then just because of resources. And it was during Trump's last term. And I remember when we put out an article that listed the exact number of trans people that will be laid off from the military when Trump's ban came into effect. And it was technically the largest layoff of any trans person in the history of the world and one of the largest layoffs ever in American history, we saw such huge traffic there where people are like, oh, this is a labor issue. This is disrespecting patriots. This is,

just hurting humans that are there to protect us. And I do think that is a better avenue to take, because the kids stuff, like I even heard people in my own family being like, kids and sports, wait, are they playing against girls? It becomes really complicated. And people have a lot of feelings, nostalgic feelings about kids in sports. But the military and protecting freedom should be pretty cut and dry in how we feel and protect those people. And plus, you know, the messaging for the Republicans are off. Are trans people amazing at sports, but bad at the military? Like, where do they dominate? Exactly. Because this is not making sense. Yeah. Well, and it's, it's, I'm so happy that you bring up the military? Like, where do they dominate? Exactly. Because this is not making sense. Yeah. Well, and it's it's I'm so happy that you bring up the military angle, because before the first trans ban under Trump, the U.S. military was the largest employer of trans people in the

country. Yeah. And they integrated trans people into their workforce seamlessly. And so what Democrats could also say is we already have a test case of what happens when you treat trans people fairly, this military you claim to love. It worked and it's been working quietly. And they don't do that. They don't do that. They don't. And something, we have to go to break soon, but something I want to ask you, Tim, specifically is this question around the normal gays. So GQ released an article yesterday that profiled a bunch of the Republicans that voted for Trump, which directly connects to gay men, pride flags, etc. But they're pretty, like, concrete in their stance around he loves us, he's the most gay president yet. However, to your similar point, Sam, we have a lot of decades of history that show Republicans don't like gay people at all. And these gays that voted for Trump have forgotten that even, like, 15 years ago, they were on a very different side of this.

So why do you think they take such refuge in Trump? What is it about him specifically? Even though he is making attacks, they say, this is our guy, he's protecting us. Just worth saying, number one, while basically every demographic voted for Trump more this time than last time, the gays and black women did not.

So, you know, hey, the gay, his message wasn't really resonating that well with gays, you know, based on the data. That said, gays did vote for him. To me, I think two things are happening. One is they really don't think that Trump is coming for them. They do think we're kind of at the end of history on gay marriage and gay rights. And I go every year to this Turning Point USA event to try to stay in touch with what Maga World is thinking. Awesome careers. Thank you for your service.

Happy to do it, man. And there's a group called Hands Against Groomers that was there a couple years ago. I went and talked to those guys. And I was just like, you know, they're younger. Everyone there thinks they're the groomers. Yeah, exactly. Like, come on. Yeah, they were younger.

The whole group is ridiculous and they're being used. And that was what I tried to tell them. I was like, you're being used. And, you know, I was trying to be like the older gay, you know, the elder gay. It's like, I don't think you're thinking about this. Like, I have a kid. Like, do you not think that the don't say gay stuff would come for your kids? Like, would it not bother you that a teacher would get in trouble or, you know if they talked about your family as it as it

exists in a classroom with your kid and like they would think about it for a second but you know then kind of revert to their partisan you know lane so i think part of this is just that they don't think that that you know that there's going to be enough backsliding that they end up being targeted and i think that's a mistaken deal but the other thing is i do think that the the wedging is working with the trans community and there's a group of gays the most generous way you could say it is that they're like man wait a minute i like to wear i like to wear my mom's heels when i was a kid and bigots used to tell me i was a girl and now they're all these whatever woke lefties that are telling a six-year-old to wear their mom's heels that he's a girl and that's wrong.

And like the generous way to interpret that, but I think it's like, okay, like that's maybe a legitimate conversation that we could all have, but they get radicalized and they go so far that like makes them hate trans people and hate trans activists. And they see Trump is on their side

in a battle with the other members of the community. So that'd be like, we could do a whole hour on that. But that would be a way to discuss it. I agree. And you know, we have to go to break. But before we go there, I want to give us a quote in my most liberal fashion, and which I'll do this. But in 1984, James Baldwin told Richard Goldstein in the Village Voice during an interview, he said, quote, I think white gay people feel cheated because they were born in principle in a society in which they were supposed to be safe. And I feel like that quote always comes to mind

when you say things like that, Tim, where it's like, you know, gay white men are like, I look at work like my fellow Republicans. I act, my life looks similar to theirs, but there's just one difference. Why should I be penalized for this one thing? And I'm glad you said it because as soon as you said some gays,

I was like, oh, white gays. This is mostly white gays who are doing this. Don't sell out Rob Smith, okay? Don't sell out Rob Smith. Rob, listen, controversial opinion. Rob Smith may be black, but, you know. I'm saying, though, like this article you share, Zach, it's not all gays.

It's mostly upper class, white, urban gays. And I think a lot about, you know, there's a choice we all make once we choose to be alphabet people. Will we understand that our uniqueness is a gift and that we only are free if we stake out our freedom and difference? Or do we think if we're nice enough to the folks who oppressed us that they'll stop yeah they'll never be the same people who are now coming for trans rights they were writing the laws against gay marriage 20 years ago it's the same motherfuckers yeah this is what the people at these parties don't get yeah they're not changing they don't say gay bill? Like, literally. Right.

Well, we have to go to break, but to save myself from my Rob Smith comment, I will just give another quote. Skinfolk aren't kinfolk. You know, not all black people are down for black people. That's all I'm going to say about that. You know, Google Rob Smith if you don't know who that is. With that, we're going to take a quick break, but stay tuned. Tim Miller said nothing. I said all of it.

And we'll be right back with more Vibe Check. don't know that you don't know that count Sam Sanders I don't want to what's his name again Rob Smith Rob Smith how do I gay black Republican what is this yeah and he was like at it literally was at a Turning Point USA event they were calling him the n-word and and the f-ur. And he still is for Trump. Oh, keep it in, Chantel. Yeah. Let me tell you something. I will never trust a self-hating anything

to lead a movement. Oh, yeah. Self-hating gays, self-hating blacks. Actually, they're like Nazis. You can punch them. I'm sorry. We'll leave that in, Chantel. There we go.

Ciao, Chantel. Ciao. Don't you tell Chantel what to do do you interloper you just got here green when you're cutting that seems like don't put my face on that uh all right on the joy reed show and i'm just like can i not be on screen when you guys talking i'm like i'm like with you on like 75%. Leave her out of this. Not joy. Not joy. Oh my God. Sometimes she starts going to a place and I'm on screen.

I'm like, am I supposed to do this? Yeah. Am I supposed to make a face so when it goes viral, people know that I was so-so on that point? You got to make like an X with your arm. I was like, man, my back is going to have to rub.

I was like. Damn. No, I, yeah, no. We should create a sign for that where you could be like not me not me like a all right well sam you got this next one yeah so this whole segment this whole second segment uh tim is all about just like what the fuck is up with democrats where are they why aren't they allowed or how do they resist uh and i just want to kind of hear you really strategize about if

democrats were like to get behind the message that works right now, what would it be and who would it be? That's it. I got really strong thoughts on this. And it starts with this. Wait, I want to intro it first. We're not in there. I was setting up for you. Sorry. That's on me. Thank you for your patience. Appreciate you. I'm down to crime. it alright we are back and now I want to talk about a topic that has really been grinding my gears since Trump took office again and that is whatever the hell

Democrats in DC are doing to push back against him and by whatever I mean to say it feels like nothing so I'm really eager to talk about this with you Tim because a lot of your career has been thinking about pushback, thinking about strategy, not just for Democrats or resistors, but also for Republicans. You've thought about this a lot. It feels like we're in this moment where Democrats in Congress have a big chance to push back on everything Trump and Elon are doing right now for several reasons. Elon won no election. Donald Trump is still not approved of by a majority of the country. And the things that are on his agenda, most Americans

actually say they don't really want that much. And yet Democrats seem to be sitting this whole thing out. So to start, I just want to ask you both, Zach and Tim, is what I'm saying even fair to say about Democrats? Are Democrats actually just sitting on their hands or is that just what I want to see? Zach, you go first. Yes, they're sitting on their hands and then like trying to walk into buildings and getting mad when they're not being let into said buildings because I think private security is blocking them. There's just a lot of yelling, but I've heard many people kind of throw up their hands and say, hey, what can we do? We don't have any power. We can't do much.

And I'm confused because the Republicans didn't have a lot of power once, but they were able to build what we're currently living in this hell. So I just feel like what's secretly happening, and some people have kind of mentioned this, is that they're wanting us to feel the pain of Trump. And the hope is that the pain will bring everyone back to the Democratic side for the next election or at least the midterms. So I do see them kind of like watching it all happen, see how this is being deployed and kind of strategizing in the background. But I'm not feeling a lot of support publicly personally. But Tim, I know you have a lot of big feelings. Your face, your face has been like, I wish that was happening that they were because

that would actually be a strategy. Yeah. Letting Trump ruin things and then fighting back. I'd be, I don't be okay with that. I mean, I don't think that the Democrats have the backbone for that, but I think that, you know, because it would take pain, right? Like people would be hurt and Democrats tend to be earnest people that don't want their constituents to be hurt. So they're like, they will tend to want to stop, try to do what they can to stop the pain so i don't actually think that's their strategy car i was on a panel with carvel recently and he's like you know they might be doing a rope-a-dope and i'm like they're not doing a rope-a-dope like mike tyson punch out like they're getting punched in the face over again um here's the thing man we don't we don't know what the midterms will look like.

We don't know what the big issue is. If I was on vibe check, February of 2021, I wouldn't have been like, we didn't, Roe hadn't even been overturned. Yeah. Like the whole contour of the midterm changed, right? Like same two years before in COVID. And like, like you just don't, you don't know what's going to happen. Right? So a lot of times there's this like tendency among Democrats to be like, well, we should wait and we should just strategize and pivot.

But also even when they wait, sometimes it doesn't work for them. I think they all were like, oh, well, Roe is going to win this election for us. Roe is going to win it for us. So then what do Democrats do? you say that we don't know what the issues will be but stuff's happening right now what should could can they do say now full attack full full fight everybody like down talks resistance 1.0 and i don't understand why because

it worked i still think about them pussy hats. It latched to the brain. It was powerful. They didn't kill Obamacare. They lost the midterms. They lost to Biden. It worked. I mean, it obviously didn't work in the long term. It didn't resign Trump to the dustbin of history like we hope,

but in the narrow political fights, the resistance actually worked. And here's the thing, man. People don't know what is going to work. I guess that is my point. People don't know what the midterm thing is going to be. They should let a thousand flowers bloom. Like if I had, if a Democrat called me and they said, what should I attack on? I would say, what are you passionate about? Yeah. What do people in your district and state care about? What can you go on social media and just rant about and, and, and break through to people, you know, where people can see your authenticity, they can see your real anger. And you do that.

Another Democrat can talk about something else. Another Democrat can talk about something else. Like I fight, I get off the mat and start punching this guy. Like the idea that Trump or the Republicans are some strategic attack dogs. They attack everything. Joe Biden is sleepy.

Hunter Biden's laptop. But here's my question for you, though. As soon as I hear you say this, and this is for both of you, Zach and Tim, you're talking about like a divide and conquer strategy. Whatever you think will work, just try it strategy. I think the GOP, especially the internet portions of the alt-right that were ascendant in the blogosphere, Reddit sphere, podcast sphere this last cycle, they were cool with that. Everyone just go your own way, fight towards the goal, towards the mission. But now I'll hear Democrats say in the aftermath of the election, well, who's going to be our Joe Rogan? How do we get media back? That approach shows me how you're going to fail.

Because this idea that the change will come top down, it's not a reality. Tim is Steve. Can I just also say, Tim's having a big moment. I want him to have that big moment. But I just want it for context for people listening. The three of us, plus Ezra Klein, plus Favreau, I think Favreau, Tommy Vittorio, et cetera, were in the article in the Wall Street Journal about who's going to be the next Joe Rogan. So the irony of you bringing this up.

Yeah, I think it's maybe Taylor. I don't know. But like, I have this big question about whether Democrats or whether the left understands the importance and power of just being legion. I constantly think about a sacred text for me sarah shulman's book let the record show all about aids activism in the act up movement uh in the 80s and their whole thing was we will never tell you what to do if you're on our side and have a good idea you go do that over there you want to sit in you do a sit-in you want to write letters you write

letters but like as long as you're doing something, do it. And I think there's this democratic opposition to that idea right now because they're waiting for someone to be in charge. You might not get someone in charge between now and midterms, but like do something. Can they do that? Yeah, I mean-

They don't do it though, but like you say- No, like that's not that hard. So here's the thing that bugs me about all this, right. Is it's like you also have to go out there. Like when you talk about trying new things and doing new things, not within the rubric of typical Democratic shit. Like this is my problem that Joe Rogan mentioned. It's like, oh, it's Zach and it's Sponsor of America and it's Tim. I'm in a bubble. I'm a liberal media elite. And it's like, yeah, we have great bubble. I'm a liberal media elite. Yeah. We have great listeners.

I love and appreciate our listeners and viewers. The people that listen to me pay attention to the news at a very deep level. Like they know who the players are. They know the rules. Like they care. The Democrats aren't struggling with those people. I mentioned earlier that the groups, the Democrats did well with gays and black women. Here's another group, people that pay attention to the news and read newspapers. They did great with those people. They did terrible with people that

don't pay attention to the news that much. Right. And so to go out and get your own Joe Rogan, I was at some stupid Democratic conference where you'd heard a lot of people that were like, we need to create our own person. Like're saying like top down or bottom like we need to create somebody and it's like no man you got to go into those spaces and like communicate with people like joe rogan and theo von and these guys like they're not republican hack activists that talk about all the time like theo von like mostly like talk makes dick jokes and like talking about fucking mma and like sometimes talk about politics right you got to get back into the culture and like engage with people outside of our little bubbles

and so i this is maybe my one disagreement with you sam on the eggs thing yeah dems should go on the floor and talk about eggs totally yes. Yes. Pivot the message to eggs. Dem congressmen, when they're in their district, should point to the grocery aisle and do a little thing with the newspaper. But they also got to go engage in the cultural stuff. It drives me insane when I hear people say, oh, that's bait. You can't talk about the Trump. If Trump wants to talk about Greenland or Gulf of America or Gaza or whatever, that's bait. You got to ignore that. You got to go back to eggs. No.

Gaza's not bait. Gaza's real. Dude, this shit is all real. Like, I'm sorry. Like, I'm sorry. What do you think the people that watch Theo Vaughn's podcast have heard about so far in this administration? It's not the fucking inspectors general. It's not the tariffs.

Like, they've heard about Gaza and Gulf america and the crazy shit that he does so you got to go engage on that turf so man that's like my thing that's what i'm begging democrats to do is like do that but also do other shit i mean i think you know personally agree so much with tim saying what you're saying sam i think they got to find the thing that activates communities you know we talk a lot on our show and i I talk about a lot, signals versus noises with Trump. Like he makes a lot of noise, but what in all that noise is a signal of something that he could actually

maybe make come to life? And how do you, as someone in this country, latch onto a signal that makes you wake up? Because I think right now people are feeling flooded, as Steve Bannon keeps pushing us all to believe he is, flooding the zone with all this information. And I think people still know what they care about. You know, eggs, to your point, Sam,

that makes some people light up. So if eggs is your thing, then figure out a way to actually rally around that and get people activated around that. But I do think Democrats should be, they're feeling really terrified of I think the 2020 election cycle, which like we were all a part of in our own way.

You know, and I was one of the journalists on stage with the Democrats running for president, asking them very specific questions about queer rights, around trans people in prisons, you know, and I was one of the journalists on stage with the Democrats running for president, asking them very specific questions about queer rights around trans people in prisons, etc, that now have kind of had a big long tail on them. And now it's kind of become this very nuclear issue. Yeah, it's not my fault. I was asking the questions that matter. We had a lot of people on stage, like 20 people, we had to find something to talk about. And it didn't matter. It's my fault, because I was a Republican 100 years ago. So I'm just trying to shiver the blame. Oh, please.

I take the blame. I'm just trying to chunk it out a little bit. Chunk it out. That's why I don't look at Twitter. People bring back old tweets of mine where I publish an op-ed from Nancy Pelosi about something and they're like, this was your fault. And I'm like, maybe, potentially. I don't know. We've learned. But I do

think we need to return to like testing the field, testing messages, figuring out something that really makes people come alive. Because right now, everyone I'm speaking to is feeling so numb and turned off by it all. Like the most elite thinkers are like, what can I do besides think of moving to Canada or Amsterdam? And so they just need something to excite them again.

And the Democrats are not doing that at all. I also think that- Can we just do noise too? Like can we do do noise too? Signal and noise? Because I think the Democrats are pretty good at being like, we should find the signal. We should find the thing. We should focus on this issue. But the Republicans do mostly noise.

They do a lot of noise. The perfect noise moment in the campaign, as soon as Donald Trump went to McDonald's, my first thought was like, Kamala, go to. Go to McDonald's. I did think was like, oh, Kamala, go to. Go to McDonald's. I did think that too. Give some more noise.

Mother Harris, go back to your job. Go do those fries. Like you better fry some fries. How can they do the noise? And also when I think about how to talk about these things, whether you're talking about trans rights or eggs, everything you're saying, Democrats, whether it's signal or signal or noise, say it with your full fucking chest. Yeah. Can I tell you a thing that I noticed with Democrats right now? And it was happening a lot, even with folks like Allred before the election. They'd want to say when the GOP was being anti-queer, anti-trans.

Well, we're pro-queer people, pro-trans people, but they were timid about it. Be there for them or don't in the same way that like Democrats, a lot of moderate Democrats were like waffling on abortion rights. Well, you know, I'm I'm religious and I think this and no, just say you're for it. Say you're for it. I think that there is like an inability of Democrats to actually forcefully say to the GOP, no. And I think every time that they engage with conservatives, especially over trans issues, and don't just say unequivocally, this is what we believe, they cede ground to the left. I'm the right on trans issues.

If you keep letting the right suck you into a debate over trans rights, they get more ground. You got to just like be fucking clear with your whole chest and they're not doing that. Yeah. Work assignment. Can I give you guys a homework assignment? Oh yeah.

Can we deprogram them? And this is like the thing that's my issue, man. Like say anything with your whole chest. Yeah. To me, like, just talk to me,

you know, like obviously like AOC is not exactly my kind of to me. Like, just talk to me. You know, like obviously like AOC is not exactly my kind of Democrat, but like, she's my kind. I watch her Instagram lives. I love her. I'll watch her makeup, all of it.

Sometimes she does stuff that makes me roll my eyes and whatever, but like, okay, that's fine. Like at least she's just being her. So many of these people are not, I can been trained for like decades that to, rise through the ranks in Democratic politics. You have to be the person that is good on message and that gets A's on your report card and does your homework.

And I'm like, they need a few more people that, like, can just vibe out with you guys. I'm like, I don't know how to deprogram. Well, it's two things. Oh, go ahead, Zach. You know, I agree so much. I wish they would vibe out with us more. And we've been asking, you know, I won't say names, but we've been trying to get people to come on, but they don't want to vibe out. But one day some of them will. But for me, you know, Trump, what is really incredible about him as a politician is he's

willing to dream aloud without a filter. Like he says, why shouldn't it be the Gulf of America? Why not? He's just willing to imagine these futures, which I find terrifying. But he does it and it helps him figure out what sticks to the wall and then policy follows that. Democrats do zero dreaming. I've heard nothing big come out of them in a long time. And that's why I always come back to this. I know people have a lot of feelings about defund the police and how it was messaged, marketed, et cetera. I loved it so much because it made us all think about what do police do?

How is money spent? What could it matter? What would the world look like without police oh god is that scary is that terrifying or is that exciting and move me over to the window yeah i think we need a bigger dreams to see what reality falls from those dreams that's my thing and the democrats are not dreaming they're just like not even now you have me a little nervous a little bit though that that democrats are going to take my advice and they're going to start dreaming publicly and start being real and they're going to say shit that like i find really dumb then i'm gonna listen there's a good and bad to everything tim wait a minute wait a minute when i told you to dream big i didn't mean that

dream you're like it's too big wrong dream different dream we'll figure out the right dream tim we'll figure out at least talk to me like a regular well and speaking of like talk to folks like a regular person there's also this other thing i see happening amongst the left and people i know tell me about this phenomenon with pride well you know there was that member of my family who's like way too conservative so i just cut them off and i don't talk to them anymore and i'm like all right you can but it's not like they're going to listen to vibe check instead it's not like they're going to listen to Vibe Check instead. It's not like they're going to like come find the left because the person in their family who could talk to them stopped. No, Tim. I mean, sorry, Sam, you know what they're going to do?

They're going to go listen to Tim at the Bulwark and then they're going to hear your voice and that's what they're going to come back. I hope so. That's what happens. is that like there has to be a willingness for the left and for democrats to engage with and take seriously people they maybe kind of hate yeah people they maybe kind of hate and as soon as i say it people get mad about that but that's how i feel go ahead tim your arms i mean i would almost say can we do a step before that which is like the people that you think like might be a little bit bad because i guess or or like dumber than you yeah we're all maybe they're dumber than you but there's still a vote yeah dumber you'd be a great first start but then you move there to dumber than you but kind of bad because like we're all kind of bad i just like this is the part i

hate the most about the left like we all fuck up like we all have this idea that you know that you used to be a republican i used to be a republican man some people didn't listen some people didn't download this because of that there you have like eight listeners who are like i'm not gonna download that i don't know like but like theo uh you know like theo von is my louisiana boy so i like to bring him up as an example man this guy like he probably makes a couple off-color jokes that you might not like uh he has a couple of views about immigration you probably don't like but like he's just a guy and he's he isn't that smart he's funny like he's savvy and he like doesn't have he's not like a religious conservative he doesn't hate gay people

he doesn't hate black people like doesn't like he's just a fucking dude he's just a dude that has a mix of views that doesn't pay that close of attention to the news and if like a cool democrat went and sat down with him and like and found a few issues of commonality well he would be for that guy like it's not even Matt Walsh. Start with that. It's not even just Theo Vaughn. Like I am literally, I'm a liberal media elite who lives in Los Angeles, who is black and also gay. And I will have some conversations with folks who are progressive, and I feel like they want to kick me out of the room.

They probably do. What? They room. And I'm like, what? They probably do. I'm trying here. There is this, I hate to say purity test because it's been a word that's been used a lot, but like the purity test of it all is just killing me. Zach, what are your final thoughts on this? I mean, we're being yelled at right now. So I agree. I think we should have more hard conversations.

I think people should say what they actually want. I'm tired of like this kind of like winking not doing anything mentality the democrats have i'm just like do something offend me but do something i don't care anymore like things are a bit too dire yeah and when in doubt talk about the fucking eggs i'm telling you bitch i'm talking about eggs i go i will i will say my my only thing about that's what i'm saying you're you found passion. I'm egged, baby. It's eggs. If you're a Democratic congressperson, find your passion. My drag name is Frittata.

Maybe you and Sam can do a Frittata Instagram live together. If your passion is something else, then talk about that. Oh, God. My drag name is Frittata. My drag name is Frittata. We have to stop there. Speaking of, I asked you at the beginning, Tim, to think of a drag name for Donald Trump. We're at the end of the show, just about.

Come on. I feel like it has to be a plan on John. You know? It has to be something about how his middle name... I'm not good at drag names. We'll come back to it. Zach's going to pick one.

I'm trying to type some up to see what. I don't know. There's like MAGA. I mean, I don't know. Can we do this in a bit? Let's come back. I did. On Gina or something?

Save it, but we're going to come back to it. All right. And we'll keep the next segment short. All right, time for a break. When we come back, we're going to totally cleanse the palate with some recommendations to help keep your vibe right. Stay with us. Sounds like typing. I thought I had. Sorry, I'm like keep your vibe right. Stay with us. Sounds like typing. I thought I had.

Sorry, I'm like totally derailing y'all with this. No, you're fine. You're fine. So Tim, this next part, just five minutes. Do you have a rec in mind? You don't have to tell me yet. I came prepared. You came prepared.

Perfect. So we'll start with you. We'll go to Sam and then I'll go last. Professional podcaster. I love, we love this. We love this. All right. All right, listeners, we're back.

And before we end the show, we'd each like to share something that's helping us keep our vibes right this week. So Tim Miller, what is your vibe rack for the week? Keep my vibe right. I'm going to Coachella. Oh, you are? Because of Gaga or someone else?

Yeah, I mean, because- Are you doing VIP-chella or like in the streets, in the mud with Coachella? I'm in my 40s. I'm doing VIP cello. I'm not in the fucking mud. Yeah, I didn't see Sweat Tours. I wanted to see Charlie, Gaga. But here's the thing. Like I have been using it as a music discovery tool right like checking out the other acts right and uh you know giving myself a little something for my walks that is different

than podcasts about donald trump so checking out like polo and pan and artemis i've been getting back into my girl amare she's good ah mar is amazing that's good taste uh so i've been checking out the you you know, kind of bands I don't know on the Coachella list. That's what's keeping my vibe. I love that. Sam, are you going to go to Coachella? I have never been, and I don't think I ever will.

I just, I've aged out. I'm too old for that. I also, I don't want to do it. It's so fun. It's so fun. It's fun if you're on the party drugs, and I cannot do party drugs around strangers. I can't.

I think you could have fun without party drugs at Coachella. I think you should go with Tim. I'll consider. Let us know when you go. If he can give me a little VIP Chela pass, can you give me a pass, Tim? No, I paid for it. You didn't get a hookup? You're a liberal media

elite, my dude. I don't know. I have no hookup. I just fucking paid. Zach has a hookup. And they're like 18 layers of VIP. So I'm just like normal, regular guy VIP. You should come. I guarantee you right now that Zach knows somebody.

We can talk about it later. I'm not saying it all night. Zach, you're getting me up to VB? Get me up into VB. Because being Vincent V is nice. Getting in VB is real nice. Okay, so for those that care about this very liberal LA conversation, the top tier that you want is artist pass.

Artist pass. Which gets you a golf of card that you get to ride around because that's what the artist ride is. So that's the top tier. I have never done it. I have never done it. Zach, look me in the face. Okay.

If you know someone who has access to artists past giving away, don't blink. No one knows what I did. We're moving on. We're moving on. We're moving on. Leave it in, Chantel. I'll talk to you offline. I'll see you.

Okay. God, that was terrifying. Sam, what's your vibe wreck of the week? My vibe wreck of the week was that last 30 seconds i'm terrified i love you zach okay my recommendation this week um i have been in awards season mode on this show and my other show and i've been talking about grammys oscars everything and that means i've been thinking a lot about what has been the best art of the last year, specifically with film.

I think I can say definitively with Pride now, I've watched all the Oscar contenders. The best movie of that last year is Nickel Boys and everyone needs to go watch it. It is visually stunning in a way I didn't think possible. It has moments that truly rip your heart out of your chest. I think Anjanay Ellis Taylor deserves three Oscars by now. And this is just a feat of filmmaking.

It's a feat of filmmaking. I think everyone should see it. And I'm mad knowing that it is a contender for Best Picture, but it probably won't win. If you want more of me being mad after you watch Nickel Boys, go to my other show, The Sam Sanders Show. And I have an episode all about why I think the Oscars shouldn't exist. But before you check that out, please go watch Nickel Boys. Zach has a connection. We both do. We have a friend who was part of the team making this movie. We do. We know a lot of people over there.

And Sam, I saw your hot take on there should be no award shows. And I have a question. Why don't you want a job anymore? Because that's what half of your show consists of is talking about award shows. Why do you want a job anymore? Because I'm ready to be a kept woman. It's time. Okay. I see that future.

That's why you go to Coachella with Tim. We find you that man. Oh. That's what's going to happen. That could be Landon Blaine. I'm learning, Jay. So I read Nickel Boys, but I haven't watched it yet. Oh. It's so worth it.

It's beautiful. It's so beautiful. It's beautiful. It's Rob Mel Ross directed, who was a documentary filmmaker before. It's incredible. It's a feat. It's a lot, though. It is a lot to watch.

You read it, so I know. Oh, we love Coleslaw. Oh, yeah. You know. You know how it goes. Well, my rec for the week is another movie, but different than Sam's. It's called Companion, directed by Drew Hancock. Yes, it's wonderful.

It's perfect for our chat because it is a kind of sleeper incel movie. It's about a guy and a girl go away for the weekend, and some deaths start happening, and people aren't who you think they are. And it really shocked me. So it's best to go in not knowing anything about the film. But it's a film that's very much about a not too distant future where Elon Musk's robots are in our lives and what happens next.

And it has a good Nepo baby in there. The Quaid. What's his name? It does. Jack Quaid. Jack Quaid. Yeah. Who I always think is Tom Hanks' son for some reason. I don't know why. Andy Quaid's kid? One of the Quaid's kids. Dennis Quaid. Yeah, who I always think is Tom Hanks' son for some reason. I don't know why. Andy Quaid's kid? One of the Quaid's kids. Dennis Quaid or Randy? It's Dennis. Let's see. Dennis Quaid's...

Oh, you look that up. I've got one more for you guys. I don't know if this quite qualifies as a vibe, but since we're together, I felt like... I don't know about you, but I'm reading like for every serious book I read, I'm reading one trashy gay book. Oh.

What I'm reading right now is called The Sluts by Dennis Cooper. Okay. It's about like early days, like Craigslist message board drama. Oh, I love this. Fucking raunchy though. It is like you got to really, I mean i mean it is a 2004 epistolary novel okay i love this wait tim are you the type of gay that loved eating out those those movies girl i thought you were jazzins you said oh oh my god no i'm meeting them i did not do i did not do

the eating out movies um you should watch the eating out movies uh they're great they're kind of a similar trashy series uh from the late 90s early 2000s um but you should watch that yeah who likes eating out eating out who doesn't who doesn't well i'm gonna read that i love a trashy gay thing i famously love to re-watch queer folk once a year as my trashy game like Problematic, but still, you know, that's my type of problematic. I mean, you know, there's some borderline choices in the show.

There's also no black people. There's literally no person of color in the whole show. I'm such a privileged white gay. I'm such a privileged white normal gay. You're just a normal gay you and jd vance hanging out uh a therapist would say none of us should use the word normal because what even is

that well we were making fun i know i know i know well anyway well that's not gonna get the hell out of the studio shantel's like y'all got 30 more minutes of material uh oh we're aware all right with that listeners what are you feeling or not feeling this week are you reading gay slutty books like tim are you going to coach hella let us know at vibecheck at stitcher.com and with that that's our show thank you tim miller for being here today this was so fun tim thank you so much for being here you you came in to the kiki right on time you're one of us as you just seamlessly wormed your way into our hearts. Come back.

A real lady. Seriously. A real lady. Appreciate you. Yes. It was a joy. Thank you for having me. Yeah.

Listeners, thank you for checking out this week's episode of Vibe Check. If you love the show and want to support us, please make sure to follow this show on your favorite podcast listening platform and tell a friend. I said it already, but I'll say it again. Thanks to our very special guest, Tim Miller, for joining us today. It's an honor. And I think I want to get some pearls now because they look good on you. I like that. They do. I said it already, but I'll say it again. Thanks to our very special guest, Tim Miller, for joining us today. It's an honor. And I think I want to get some pearls now because they look good on you.

I like that. I like that. Yeah, yeah. Huge thanks to our producer, Chantel Holder, our executive producers, Camille Stanley from SiriusXM and Brandon Sharp from Agenda. Thanks to Marcus Holm for our theme music and sound design. Also, shout out to our intern, Julia Leo

and Aisha Ayub, who creates our social content. And as always, we want to hear from you, so don't forget you can email us at vibecheckatstitcher.com and keep in touch with us on Instagram on our page at vibecheck underscore pod. And for direct access to our group chat, you can join our

Patreon for just $5 a month at patreon.com slash vibecheck. Also, vibecheck, see? Great deal. $5. You can text Sam.com slash vibecheck. Also, vibecheck, yeah, see, great deal. $5, you can text Sam Sanders, direct, yeah. Also, vibecheck listeners can now get a free three-month trial on the SiriusXM app by going to siriusxm.com slash vibecheck. Again, that's siriusxm.com slash vibecheck. Stay tuned for another episode next week with Saeed Jones back.

Until then, goodbye, ladies. Enjoy. I got it. To close. Wait, hold on. When we hang out in New Orleans, Tim Miller, we're going to have a small talk stroll. We're going to walk around that city with some Hurricanes or Daiquiris. Purple drink. See how we can small talk. Purple drink?

Not Cody. Try to talk to people? That's the frozen drink to do. We're going to see how long we can talk to strangers. Oh, God. Go to a gay bar for this so you can find husbands, both of you. This is what I suggest. We love it. All right.

Thank you so much, y'all. Bye. you