Bulwark Takes - Conor Lamb Says Fetterman Isn’t Meeting The Moment. AOC Is On His Side.

Episode Date: March 25, 2025

Conor Lamb joins Lauren Egan to discuss the importance of town halls, listening to voters, and fighting against Trump. Lamb also talks about his new support from Alexandria Ocasio-Corte, and calls out John Fetterman’s collaborations against public interests.

Hey, guys, it's Lauren Egan here at The Bulwark. I am joined today by former Pennsylvania Congressman Conor Lamb. Congressman, thanks for being here. Thanks for having me. Nice to be here. So I hit you up over the weekend because you had this Twitter exchange that I found to be very interesting. We're going to pull it up on the screen so folks can read it. But essentially, you criticized your former Senate opponent, John Fetterman, after he came for AOC when she said something about how the party needs to fight harder against Republicans and suggested that maybe Senator Schumer should not have backed that funding bill, all of which led AOC to then tweet at you, I was wrong about you and I'm sorry. So the big question, I guess, is

did you ever think you would be aligned with AOC? Sure. I mean, we actually were aligned on some policy issues, even though we disagree with others. And we never had any kind of a personal canvas. I think it was always sort of policy driven, but times change. And, you know, right now, I think the urgency of, you know, just being out there, interacting with people, creating energy around these town halls, reminding people that they have a voice and that they deserve to be listened to is really important. And she's one of the people doing it. And, you know, my senator here in Pennsylvania, neither one of them are doing that. And I felt it was time to say something about it. Yeah. Talk to me a little bit about what motivated you in the first place to tweet that at Fetterman. I've just been really alarmed. I mean, every single week, what Trump and Musk are doing, you know, to the country, to Pennsylvania. Just honest people who are doing their jobs and signed up for public service and wanted to help people are being fired with no

explanation. We're setting back the country as far as scientific research and all these important areas, really harming the rule of law. And probably worse than all of that, Social Security is up for grabs now and people are afraid and unsure about their benefits. And you don't hear anything from him about it. I think for the first couple of months after the election, when he wanted to say things about Democrats, I understood where he was coming from. But there's just a point where you go, okay, we get it. You've said that 100 times. You have a job now and an enormous part of your job is oversight and demanding answers. And he supposedly is now Trump's favorite Democrat and has all this access. Why don't you use it to help your constituents?

Yeah. Do you think it's just a Fetterman issue or do do you see this as like, a larger Democratic Party as a whole needs to be doing more? Well, I think it's especially acute in his case, because he's made such a big deal out of, you know, go to Mar-a-Lago and voting for Pam Bobby and things that I just can't see the logic in, you know, given everything that Trump is doing, what he obviously represents. The larger Democratic Party question obviously is a tough one. But I shared the reaction of a lot of people that just wondered, you know, why the Senate wasn't standing up for himself in this last funding fight, and more importantly, why they weren't standing up for, I don't know,

Social Security recipients, Medicare recipients, veterans, pick one, you know, and die on that hill because people will reward you for that. Those are like huge 90% positions to protect Social Security from Elon Musk. Yeah. Why do you think Fetterman isn't doing more? Like, I mean, I know you can't necessarily get inside of his head, but do you think he thinks it's like smart politics in Pennsylvania? Or what's kind of your read on why he's doing what he's doing? I really don't know. And the point of what I'm trying to do right now is he should be out there explaining it. It shouldn't be a big mystery. But, you know, we only hear about him in these little soundbites he gives to reporters on his way to and from the floor or in the context of a little

tweet. And so it's hard to understand what his end game is. But I think there's one thing we can say clearly, which is that he's been in office for over two years, and it's very hard to see any results from the approach that he's taken as far as actual legislation accomplished for people, as far as him protecting the veterans or social security beneficiaries or student loan holders or TSA agents in his state. To say nothing of people who are being deported to El Salvadorian prisons. I mean, there's so many things happening that you don't get to hear from him about. It does make the question just where his priorities are. Yeah, we've talked a lot recently about this moment in the Democratic Party where it feels like

things are split, not necessarily long ideological lines, but it's more about a style and a willingness to fight against Trump. I'm curious if that's kind of your read of the situation and where where the party is right now as well. Yeah, I understand. That's how it breaks down in the news stories. Maybe that's right. I'm not there every day. And, you know, I've got a job and kids. And so I have not wanted to be the person weighing in on like what all the elected

Democrats should do because they have more information about it than I do right now. But if there's one thing I'm certain of, it's that people want to see their elected officials, Democrats and Republicans, out in their communities, answering questions, and then also asking questions on their behalf, right? Like, one of the things that Trump is doing is taking so many actions, harming so many people so quickly and denying the public information about the true implications of it. So, you know, we can't really say today how many of Pennsylvania's 75,000 federal employees have lost their jobs or will lose their jobs. But if we had senators that were doing their jobs, they could be insisting on answers to those kind of questions. And if they

didn't get them, that's where they would draw the line and say, I'm not going to continue to fund an executive branch that refuses to do its constitutional job and work with the Senate on these really important issues of public policy in people's lives. Yeah. We've also talked a lot, especially here at the Bulwark, about whether or not we could see sort of Tea Party like movement in 2026 for Democrats, where you're going to see potentially this wave of first time candidates, primarying incumbent Democrats who they feel like just are basically doing what you just said, doing enough to hold Trump accountable, to fight against him, asking those questions. I'm curious, sort of, you know, being in Pennsylvania, what you're hearing from folks,

whether you think that there is a potential that that could happen, if there's enough sort of anger and frustration from folks on the ground. You know, so far, I don't perceive people getting all the way into electoral politics. What I see is people who are concerned about the democracy itself, our society itself, and what Trump is doing to change it for the worse. And they want to participate. They want to engage. They want to get out and do these town halls. If they have to protest, they will. But I think they would prefer having their officials available to them on stage, taking questions from the crowd. So they want to go through kind of the essential components of a democracy for the next year and just find out where we are. There's a sense of bewilderment

and confusion about not understanding what is really happening right now and how serious it is. And so I would discourage, I understand why people in the media want to ask about the political question, who's running against who and when. I think for me, I would like to try to redirect attention as much as possible to, we have a democracy we're trying to preserve. And a crucial part of that is making people feel like it's worthwhile to stand up and speak your mind and that you are entitled to answers from the people that represent. Yeah. So it sounds like a big part of this that you're talking about is sort of being more communicative and being more accessible to constituents. I know like Tim Walls, Bernie,

AOC, there's been folks that are out there, Ro Khanna, that are holding events, answering questions. But it sounds like you're saying Republicans are kind of creating this leadership vacuum. They're not holding these kinds of events and that Democrats should really fill that. I know you're also holding an event this weekend. Do you see Democrats as being able to play a bigger role there? And what are you hoping to sort of accomplish with the town hall that you're doing this weekend? Yeah, absolutely. And this is a town hall in Center County, where State College is, Penn State. That was going to happen anyway. It was already planned before I ever sort of came along with our social media exchange last weekend. But they

invited me to come appear at it. And of course, I said, yes, I got to put my money where my mouth is now. Right. And yes, absolutely. There's an opportunity for Democrats to step up. And just I don't think people realize that listening goes a really long way. And giving people a chance to speak their mind is important, you know, not just because it may lead to some direct action of people influencing the administration or a piece of legislation or whatever, but it just keeps alive this culture that's so important to what America is, that people are free to speak their minds, that the elected officials work for us, not the other way around. Trump is trying to eliminate all that. He wants everything to be about him.

He wants all the power. And holding events like this is, I think, the most important thing we can do right now to prove that that view that Trump has is not popular out there in society, that people don't approve of Elon Musk messing around with their Social Security benefits. And that's probably the best deterrence you could hope for against this government. Yeah. And there has been some reporting, some of these town hall events that Democrats have expressed, Democratic voters have kind of gotten frustrated with their representatives, especially around the funding bill fight, and kind of come at some lawmakers saying, you need to do more to fight against Trump. There's a sense sometimes, you know, lawmakers will maybe, you know, shy away

from those kinds of confrontations. But do you think that there's a benefit to sort of hearing that from constituents and like having those tough conversations, even if it's someone who's not happy with the job that their official is doing? Like, it seems like there's something that the party can learn by having more of those conversations. Yes, absolutely. And this is something, if you look at the class that came into Congress in 2018, that small number of us that were from so-called battleground districts, virtually every one of us promised our constituents we would hold town halls because our Republican predecessors were not doing it. And we did. And people come to them angry sometimes.

Not everybody is angry at them, but sometimes people are angry. And sometimes there are people who are to your left. Sometimes there are people who are to your right. It's nothing to be afraid of. It's just part of the democratic process. And as someone that went through this dozens of times, it goes a really long way if you let people get things off their chest, you listen to them respectfully, and you answer them respectfully. And I can say,

and having done all the ones I did, I never had a protest. I never had violence. I never had to stop it because people were being out of order, even though there was someone wearing a MAGA hat at every single one of them. These were not Democratic pep rallies. So I saw the wave of stories last week that was like, oh, Democrats are surprised that some of their town halls people are angry. I think that's a good thing. We should show that we're the side that's not afraid of that. Yeah. And we've talked a little bit about in previous videos about Biden couldn't hold any town halls during the start of his administration.

And I think it could have because of COVID, obviously, and it could have really benefited the party if they were out there, you know, talking to people a bit more. Maybe the back the frustration around the economy wouldn't have been as much of a surprise if those conversations were being able to be held essentially earlier on. All of this kind of plays back into Peterman. He is going on a book event this week with Republican Senator Dave McCormick, who has a new book out about mentorship. So he is getting out there, but it is with his Republican counterpart.

What do you make of that? And what do you think he's trying to accomplish? You know, I'm not sure what he's trying to accomplish, except that, you know, showing people that people from two different parties can get along and can work together is a good thing. And I would assume there's part of him that sort of looks at the election results in Pennsylvania and, you know, the low esteem that the Democratic Party is held in by a lot of people and says, you know, it's a good thing to show

people I'm willing to work for the Republican. And I agree. That's a fine thing. It is. But this is happening in the context of Trump doing things every single day that are unprecedented. You know, I mean, Pennsylvania gets well over a trillion dollars. I think it's like a trillion and a half dollars from the Department of Education every year. I mean, it funds high need public schools. It funds students that have disabilities. That happened in the last week. And where is he to be found on it? So what it starts to look like is that he has this preference for sort of cozying up to an administration and cozying up to a party over speaking out on issues that are clearly hurting

a lot of his constituents, especially the most vulnerable ones. And so if we're able to accomplish anything, maybe it's just to influence him to reshuffle his priorities. I'm not saying don't ever work with David Cormack. I would never say that. I've done plenty of things with Republicans as well. But you have to look at the moment and understand what your job requires. McCormick and Fetterman both should be standing up to this administration. The things that I'm talking about are not partisan in their nature. It's like the rule of law. I mean, I mean, it's, it's all American stuff. And I wish that they would focus on a whole report. Yeah. Um, you know, Fetterman was on the Bulwark podcast a few weeks ago and Tim Miller asked him to name one thing that he would tell

Trump to stop doing. And I mean, it was interesting. Folks should go watch the interview. Um, he struggled to answer it quite frankly. Um, quite frankly, which surprised me because it seems like something if you're an elected Democrat, you should be able to answer that. So I'm curious what your answer to that question would be. And do you think it's acceptable that the sitting Democrat from Pennsylvania can't provide a sound answer on that? Yeah, I didn't hear the interview, but it's discouraging the way you describe it. You know, God, it's hard. There's so many to choose from. I think I will say this in the run up to the CR. I was sitting there wondering to myself, why doesn't Fetterman or Schumer or someone like that just say to Trump, you know what,

we'll vote for your CR because we don't want to shut down. But you have to add one sentence to it, one little sentence to an enormous multi-thousand page bill. And that sentence is neither Elon Musk or anyone from the Department of Government Efficiency shall have any access to the Social Security Administration or the Social Security Trust Fund. They just cannot touch it, cannot go anywhere near it. You put that sentence in and we'll vote for your bill. You know, then it's on Trump to explain to the American people why he's not able to keep Elon Musk out of the hands of their Social Security. But, you know, even more immediate than that, I would say stop attacking judges. You know, if we live in a country where the president is able to,

you know, initiate an impeachment of a judge because they rule against something that they like, we don't have our constitution anymore, you know, and people may sit around going, oh, well, you know, these unelected judges, they're trying to stop Trump who was elected. Well, I'm sorry, that's not how America works. You know, like there was a majority in the South for slavery and Jim Crow too, wasn't there. And nobody looks back on that and says like, they really should have let the majority have led away. Like the rule of law is something and it protects everybody and it places everybody in an equal

moral position. It's a really important part of our society. I would definitely tell Trump to stop doing that. Yeah. So like I mentioned, you've got this event this weekend. Do you see yourself as having a role to play in the coming months? Do you think this is the first of many events you might be doing? I hope that there's a lot of events and if people invite me to them, I'll go. My desire for my role is to show people that

when you're looking at the news every day and you see powerful people, elites capitulating all the time, you know, law firms, universities, media organizations that Trump has sued, thankfully not the board. You know, not yet. Really, really. You know, you see Jeff Bezos paying Melania Trump 40 million dollars for this ridiculous documentary. Like everybody giving up their principles to please this guy. I don't want the example to be like, you should keep quiet too, citizen. You have no ability to speak up. You're going to be punished if you do. We still have our First Amendment rights. We still understand that this government belongs to us, not to Trump. And I think that every time we're able to get out there and speak our minds and be critical,

but also constructive and demand answers from the people that represent us, I think we're giving life to a democracy that otherwise might look like it was on life support. Yeah, yeah. Any interest in running for office again? That's not what this is about and certainly not anytime soon. And I don't want people to make it about that because again, it's about people and their rights and their ability to, to stand up for themselves.

That's all I want to encourage. So it's March of 2025. And if, if all that happens this year is people recover sort of their courage and their willingness to speak out and they understand that, you know, the government actually does owe them answers. I'll be very happy. Well, thank you so much for being with us today. Good luck this weekend. Come back on and

let us know what you're hearing from folks. And thanks for your time. Yeah. Thanks for what you're doing too.