Bulwark Takes - Conspiracy Crazies FREAK OUT After Epstein Update

Episode Date: July 7, 2025

Sam Stein talks with Will Sommer about the latest twist in the Epstein saga and why Pam Bondi’s big promises just went up in smoke. From binder theatrics to conspiracy fallout, it’s all unraveling.

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to get $500 off your tonal purchase, plus a free four-year warranty. That's tonal.com for $500 off, plus a free four-year warranty. Tonal.com. All right, hey guys, it's me again, Sam Stein, managing editor at The Bullwork, back from July 4th, where, you know, Sam Stein managing out of the bulwark back from July

4th, where, you know, did my patriotic thing. I'm joined by Will Summer, author of false flags and look every four years like Olympic athletes, they train for the Olympics and you know, it's their moment. We sort of wait for it. We anticipate it and it's broadcast and they give it their all. And it just so happens that today is Will Summers Olympics. We finally have some closure, although who knows, with the Epstein files. And if anyone is going to talk about what this means, it's going to be Will because he's been following this thing for how long? How long have you been following? Sorry.

Oh, I mean, gosh, since Jeffrey Epstein was rearrested back in what? 2019 or something. And so, you know, now we're looking at the conclusion for now, the end of the beginning. All right, so what happened last night that's prompting us to jump on YouTube and talk about this? Right. So the Justice Department put out a memo on a Sunday night of a three-day weekend, a classic moment when so many eyeballs will be on something. I don't know, man. I would have done it if I really wanted to bury it. I would have done it on like Saturday or Friday night.

Yes. Right as the fireworks were going on. But go ahead. So the memo said, you know, essentially that this long awaited revelation of the Jeffrey Epstein client list, any other documents, the Epstein files, you know, maybe future charges against his clients. That's not going to happen. And they said also Jeffrey Epstein killed himself.

Here's a video of his cell door. You can see no one else came in. So basically they're saying the Epstein case is closed. No other information, no other charges are going to be coming out. They were kind of saying that already though, right? They had. I mean, you can see that there was sort of this like walk up to it. Dan Bongino and Cash Patel, the heads of the FBI, did an interview where they said, you

know, he killed himself, it's over, whatever. And so, but I think this is an official DOJ, FBI memo. There's sort of a finality to it. Yeah, I suppose. But it's, I don't know. This thing always rears its ugly head and there's conspiracy theorists waiting in the wings. And I have to imagine that it's not going to be just widely accepted. Oh, Bon Gino says it's done. Therefore it's done. Well, yeah, I mean, there was so much anticipation around this. I mean, this was this is like, basically half of

what QAnon is all about, you know, for one thing. I mean, but even outside of that, I mean, there was this belief in the MAGA movement that there was this Epstein client list and it was going to have not just, you know, like Prince Andrew, but it was going to have all these high ranking just Prince Andrew. I know, I know, that's why he's going to have all these high ranking people and your people in Hollywood, you know, Oprah, whatever all these people. I mean, we've seen all the fake Epstein flight lists that'll come out and it'll say, you know, like Drake or whatever, you know, who knows? And they were so excited.

And then now it's nothing. Yeah. And, you know, in reality, there probably was no Jeffrey Epstein client list. All the Epstein experts were saying that, but they, they Republicans had really pinned their hopes on some big revelation. I don't always struck me as so stupid that he would create, I mean, maybe, I don't know, I don't want to get too into it, but like here is the theory that this guy is orchestrating this incredible cabal of like, you know, sex slavery involving the highest ranking officials

across the globe. And oh, I'm going to write down their names in a book. Just never made real sense to me that he would go to great lengths to hide it all and then just make the stupid decision of putting it down in paper. Well, the other thing I would add here is that, there's also the second half of this is the belief that Jeffrey Epstein was running some kind of blackmail operation,

and probably for the Israeli intelligence agency, the Mossad. And so the DOJ memo also said he also wasn't blackmailing anybody. And so that kind of, you know, there's this rising tide of anti-Semitism, anti-Israel sentiment on the right. And so that sort of deflates their bubble. And so that's sort of the second part. Sorry, folks. Okay, well, look, it's not so easy for the White House, obviously, to just put this genie back in the bottle. First of all, how instrumental were Bongino and Patel prior

to joining the administration and pushing this stuff? Well, at least in Bongino's case, I mean, he was a very popular podcast or talk radio host and he was talking all the time about all the secrets that would be revealed by the Epstein files. Just before we got on here, I looked up, I mean, he said he's like Bill Clinton, the Clinton family is knee deep in all this, you know, huge revelations to come out. And now he's saying, you know, he's like the myth busters. He's saying, you know, why do you guys care about all this?

You know, and the real one here, who I think is gonna have trouble getting out of it is Attorney General Pan Bondi. Why? Well, she was sort of like a, she was sort of late to the party in terms of talking about Epstein, but she really latched onto it.

And I think, speculating here, I think she saw it as her attempt, because she, unlike Casper Tell, Bon Gino, a lot of other people- She wasn't like a podcaster. She wasn't like that type. Well, she was on Fox a bunch, but she wasn't like, I don't know, she didn't do dalliances with the crazy conspiracists. She doesn't have her own audience. She's like as clouded up as a lot of these people And so we she seems to have sort of seen this big revelation as like her moment

And so we know that in late February like she could buy credibility with this crowd exactly She could be like I'm the Epstein Avenger or whatever And so, you know a bunch of of right wing influencers were visiting the White House. She shows up unprompted with the Epstein binders and said, you know, this is the first tranche of documents we're releasing. It was a big debacle, because it all turned out to be public already.

Right, and then she was, let's play this clip, because it wasn't even that long ago. Let's see, February 21st, so it's not so, it's somewhat long ago, I guess. But she was fairly explicit. She said, I I have the list the client list on my desk. And it wasn't like I'm reviewing what could be the client list. She's like, I have the list on my desk. And not only was she pushing out, but the White House is rapid response, a Twitter account pushed out the video of her saying this. So they put their account behind this.

So let's take a listen to this and then you and I are going to sort of game how she tries to wiggle out of this one. The DOJ may be releasing the list of Jeffrey Epstein's clients. Will that really happen? It's sitting on my desk right now to review. That's been a directive by President Trump. I'm reviewing that. I'm reviewing JFK files, MLK files, that's all in the process of being reviewed because that was done at the directive of the president from all

of these agencies. Alright, so there she is. It's on her desk. She's looking at it. She's going to be releasing the list of the clients. All right, so how do you wiggle out of that? I think she's gonna say that she when she was saying it's on my desk, she meant like the Epstein matter broadly is on my desk. She said she had a list. How did you get out of that?

Well, the reality is she kept ratcheting up even more. The binder's thing was after the list remark. And then in, I think, May. Wait, hold on. She said she had the list on her desk and then released the binders and the binders debacle happened after that? That's correct.

We would have to double check that. Oh my god. OK. Yeah. And so then in May, I think, there's this kind of, you can see this push and play between the push and pull between the right wing media and the administration here. Because this is such a weird story. James O'Keefe

gets her on tape talking to a nanny about and being like, this was like a really under covered story. And so basically like there's this footage of, it's like another James O'Keefe operative, they're all circulating around DC, who's like on another mission, sees Pam Bondi at a restaurant and she's like Pam Bondi What's up with Epstein? You know, I got my buttonhole camera right here and Pam Bondi goes. Oh my gosh It's like thousands of victims that we have all these documents and videos. It's gonna be crazy And then Pam basically O'Keefe goes to a DOJ and says we have this video

So then Bondi tries to front-run it by then saying saying at the White House, oh, we have all these documents. So there's this weird thing where he kind of forces her hand because I guess she's boasting about it privately. So then again, she said there were all these huge documents that were going to come out and then nothing. So, but that also was sort of, maybe you would know better than I would, but I mean, I'm trying to downplay the severity of what happened here because it's horrible, but it wasn't a thousand victims as far as I'm aware. It was like 250 or so, right? Well, just a few days ago, the AP had an interesting story that basically said, what are they talking

about? You know, all the lawyers who've been involved in this case, the Epstein experts said like thousands of victims or a thousand victims is way more than anyone anticipated. And there's this talk that Bondi claims that there are, you know, these databases of videos and servers and all this stuff. How she can get out of it? She's just making all these promises, making all these accusations that just aren't true.

Like, I mean, what's she going to say? Oh, the list I had was actually a to do list of things to around like disclosing Jeffrey Epstein stuff. Like, I don't understand how you can undo what you said. Yeah. I mean, I think she's in a tight spot here. And I think maybe it's, it's time to start packing the bags for Florida because you know, she, we have members of Congress like Annapolina Luna, James Comer, who are more than willing, I think, to put the screws to her on this. And I mean, she's kind of in a bind. Why would they take, why would they put the screws to her and not to Patel? Patel is the one who works for her.

Right. I think Cass Patel and Bongino are seen as more like MAGA devotees than Pam Bondi. I think Pam Bondi is seen as maybe a little more expendable, at least by right-wing media figures. And, you know, I think also there's this aspect of, we've seen in the 12 hours or so since this came out, that there has been, the right-wing media figures are often very like quiet initially. They just say like, they just say, oh, you know, I guess, I guess, nevermind about Epstein, but then they don't really like get a political valence to it. Since then though, we've seen a lot of people like Benny Johnson, for example, coming out what I believe was a binder

recipient, coming out and saying, you know, this is like 1984, you know, all this stuff. And a lot of that heat is falling on Pam Bondi, people are saying Pam Bondi resign, you know, all this stuff. So those are sort of the early two leaves. And she was the one. Yeah, but she didn't. She was the one that's promising them gold. And Patel and Bongino come in and say no, we don't have it. Well, it's a DOJ and FBI memo.

The other thing I would say here is the reactions are just really cracking me up in terms of how the Trumps are. What's the online response basically? There's a lot of, there's kind of like, we can put them in two camps. I mean, there's one camp of people who are like often more administration critical. People who are also kind of in that more anti-war with Iran camp, who have criticized it in the past and they're saying, you know, this is the deep state. You know, Trump has been, you know, adopted by the deep state.

Um, the people who got the binders, who were more sort of like establishment right wing characters, they're starting to get restless too. And so people like Benny Johnson, Jack Psobek, they're getting mad. And so I think, you know, I think ahead might have to roll here. There's just really no way that that you could square this. I mean, they were they they were, this has been the storyline, one of the main storylines for I mean, I guess the way to square would be like, okay, I guess I was wrong. But I guess that's not possible, right? I'm being serious about this, because you and I had this conversation a little while

ago about like, what's the best way to unconvince conspiracy theorists about the conspiracy, right? And your response was kind of chilling. And then reflection was like of chilling in reflection. It was like, you just have to move on to a different topic. Like you can never convince them. Maybe that's the case here. And they just keep going on down the rabbit hole

and find some other reason to believe that Bongino and Patel and Bondi were co-opted by some deep state figure. But maybe they can admit they're wrong. I don't know. Is that too much to ask? I think often the conspiracy theory just becomes bigger So like after 2020 they said well, you know Trump was supposed to purge the deep state

But I guess they were just stronger or you know, Mike Cernovich today who was very involved in sort of Epstein conspiracy theories He's saying well, you know, the world is governed by pedophiles. What are you gonna do? And he basically said he's like there's a hierarchy in this world and Trump's here and the pedophiles are way up here which Trump is controlled by the pedophile cabal that's the pro-Trump take convinced bondi and banjina that there was nothing there Jesus I can't even put my head around it it's it's depressing honestly it's like you know it kind of overshadows and diminishes like the actual human suffering that this man caused. What about Elon though? He didn't he at one point when he was leaving say Trump was on the list. Yes, he did

Yeah So so Elon obviously burned a lot of bridges when he said Trump Essentially Trump's a pedophile and on the list and that's why the files won't come out and he's been tweeting I mean, he's been tweeting, you know, this is the last straw what a scandal This is that they aren't gonna release the files. So maybe the America party will get to the bottom of it. It's the main platform they have. All right, well, I appreciate you like kind of mucking it up for us in this sewer of our society and coming out relatively clean. Relatively clean. I think. Yeah, so just a little.

I mean, yeah, well, at least you're sane for now. Will Summer, ladies and gentlemen, author of the False Flag Newsletter, he's going to be writing about all this for this evening's newsletter. So you should subscribe to that and you should subscribe to our YouTube feed where you get conversations like this. And until then, we'll catch you later.