Bulwark Takes - Epstein Victim: He Said He Had Me on Video — Where’s the Transparency?

Episode Date: July 26, 2025

Former model Stacey Williams speaks out about being assaulted by Donald Trump in his office and Epstein’s disturbing role in enabling abuse. Epstein told Williams that he filmed her, and she's demanding transparency from the DOJ -- what exactly is in the Epstein files?

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If you have questions or concerns about gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. Ben MGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. Hey everybody, Tim Miller from the Bullwork here, and I'm grateful to be here with Stacey Williams who last October, I guess, spoke out about an incident with Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump at the Trump Hotel many years ago that I probably bet you wish you weren't talking about still. Something happened back in the 1990s, but I appreciate your courage in speaking out

and coming here to talk about it a little bit. Thanks. Yeah, it's not a lot of fun contrary to what some folks say, but I think it's, like I said, it's really important. And I think also when I saw that Virginia died by suicide a few weeks ago, I thought, oh, I can't just sit back. Yeah. For people who don't know, Virginia was one of the Epstein accusers. It almost feels a victim's, I guess, would be much more accurate term and maybe the most horrific of all of them. I guess maybe that's hard to, you don't want to compare, but her story was just particularly tragic.

Yeah. It was horrendous. Yeah. So okay. Well, for people who don't know and aren't familiar, let's just kind of contextualize what was happening here. And then I want to talk in particular mostly to you about kind of what victims and what other women in your shoes want out of this whole, this discussion about what the government should be doing with regards to abstain. But to contextualize it, you were your swimsuit model in the nineties, is that right? Well, I think people call me that because I did the Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue for like eight years and it was like some kind of record at the time, but I did Elvo,

Grunway, everything. I lived in Paris in New York. That's an important record. Yeah, I guess. I pretended as a closet of gay, I pretended to like this swimsuit edition. I'd get it and sit around for a little while and I'd have it out in case no one had any questions, but I didn't really linger. So I don't recall your eight year run.

Well, what's funny is that I've met men over the years. I mean, I guess if you're Gen, I'm Gen X. So there are men who I think who are Xers who couldn't come out and so many of them told me that I was their beard. And I am so truly deeply honored. They had posters, everything. So yeah. It's always been a great alliance. That was Natalie Portman for me.

Thank you, Natalie. Anyway, Stacey, the- How dare you? Sorry. Elder millennial version. So during that period, I guess you had a brief period where you're dating Jeffrey. How did that even come to pass? How long was it?

And, you know, what was just sort of the circumstance? So I was introduced to Jeffrey by my agent at the time, Faith Cates, who owns Next Models. Thanks for nothing, Faith. All those agencies, they hosted a lot of dinners with models and powerful men. And so she got, it was a night, she said, we're getting a group together for dinner on the Upper East Side. And I went and Jeffrey was there. And the interesting thing about Jeffrey, which is so funny, be like, well, you know, he's such a creep, obviously, he's like the most renowned, you know, scumbag on the planet. And but at the time, he was one of the few men who just looked me in the eye and had a political conversation with

me and didn't condescend. And that's, I think that's why, you know, I got interested in him and why we engaged and it went from there. Then kind of forgot about it though, didn't exchange numbers or anything. A couple of months later, Donald Trump, he owned the Plaza at one point, the hotel, and he was throwing a Christmas party at the Plaza. Again, Faith said, I think we had like three parties that night and we were just being festive and having fun getting dressed up for reasons other than being photographed and enjoying the season. And we went to the plaza and Donald was there and he walked me over and he's like, you know, Jeffrey, right?

And yeah, so that's then at that moment we talked longer. And I gave him my number and we dated after that for a few months. I was traveling, I was very busy. And so it wasn't like we're seeing each other seriously for months. I mean, it was a period of four months and I was traveling and it took a while for all the little data points to line up about how utterly batshit crazy everything was. And then I was out. Then I was like, yeah, I'm done. This is insane. Yeah. And so then the incident question that you kind of spoke about last time

was, I guess, during that three to four month period, Jeffrey took you to Trump's office. And it is particularly noteworthy because it's a similar story to what Maria Farmer told to the FBI in 1996. So that would be then two years later, three years later. She's underage at the time, so even creepier and worse in a lot of ways. But it's interesting, it's sort of a corroborating type thing because it's sort of similar, I

guess, that he went by his office at Trump Tower. So I don't know, talk about that. Yeah, we were taking a walk. We met at, he was living in a brownstone on the Upper East Side. I don't think it's the same one that got raided. I don't know, but it was a very large, very fancy brownstone with butlers and multiple floors and everything.

And that's where we would meet and then we would take walks. And we were walking down Fifth Avenue one day and he said, you know, I'd already met Donald a couple of times over the years. And he's like, oh yeah, Donald keeps talking about you and let's stop by and say hi. And then that's when the incident happened. We went up and he groped me and Jeffrey and Donald kept talking while he groped me and I froze.

I was in shock. And then Jeffrey got angry and berated me for allowing him to do it afterwards. And it's a lot because it's so insane. Sorry. And yeah. And then, and it was not long after that, that I, you know, I said, I can't, I can't do this. In fact, I very, I said to him, I said,

you need, you need to see a psychiatrist, something's seriously wrong with you. Yeah. He got angry at you. To me, and again, who the hell knows, was people how to get inside the brains if somebody's sick as him. But like, it does feel like, again, the other data point of where he brought Farmer there a couple

years later, and then she ends up bringing that up to the FBI. And the fact that he wasn't mad at Trump and that they continued to have a relationship and that he's mad at you, it kind of indicates that there's some kind of, I don't know, whether it was a game or... Yeah, it felt like it. I mean, I had detailed to Jeffrey that I had a bit of a reputation in the industry for being combative in the industry with the predators that were in the industry, as well as the guys on the streets. I have friends who've reached out to me and said, remember that time you beat the shit out of that guy in Paris and maced him or whatever? I was in full combat mode in those days.

I had told that to Jeffrey. I remember telling him that. It was on my mind a lot because I was living in a war zone. It was such a wild west back then, like 13-year-olds modeling. Now you get booked for a job, you're 13 years old, and there's like a tutor on set, and there's all kinds of oversight. Thank God. It was truly the wild west. So we were really unprotected. And so he knew that. I downloaded that to him. And so I think he, and I could be wrong, but I think he was so angry because I was walked in. I think he told Donald that, you know,

I was one person who wasn't gonna let him get away with the handsy stuff. And I did, because of the way, you know, like I said, everything he does is hidden in its brazenness, right? So if I'd been in a dark alley, and I had been in the past or a subway or something where someone's grabbing me or being inappropriate, I fight back, I get out the maze or whatever,

and I had some self-defense classes. But in broad daylight, with an assistant going back and forth, you're like, this can't be happening. I mean, it's just like, is this a Kitty Genovese, somewhat Kitty Genovese ask, right? Which is, yeah, it's relevant to that where like, as long as everyone looks around and the room's filling with smoke and it's like, well, no, there's not, you know, no one's moving. So everything must be okay. It's akin to that. So I

froze. And so that's why it felt like it was very much an arranged kind of, uh, situation and why Jeffrey got mad. Who knows what, you know, whether it was a bet and he lost money. I have no idea. Right. Hidden in his brazenness is, is very well put. I mean, it's like, I know it's his political strategy about a lot of his blog, blog breaking, but like, yeah, but also just like the access Hollywood tape.

And he admits that he tells you what the strategy he says, I just, you know, gravel. Um, uh, gravel. Yeah, I know. To me, it's just the interesting thing with the on the Trump side of it is just like, it just who knows what the game whatever, but it shows a comfort and like a some, a some kind of, you know, it's kind of friendship romance, right? Where they were this kind of stuff happens, right? And like, and that for Jeffrey, you met at you, right?

Shows like that in their relationship, that type of behavior is accepted and common, yeah. Yeah, they were not mere acquaintances. Yeah. So to the Jeffrey side of it, you know, and like all this stuff gets wrapped up in the politics, right? And particularly now, and it's like, you know,

why do people want to see, so it so, you know, why do people want to see? So it's so sucks. Like why do people want to see this? It's like, not because they care. You know, that's because they want accountability for the criminals, because there are other criminals besides Jeffrey Epstein and Gillian Maxwell here, other perpetrators and collaborators. So that and so at some level, some people wanted that, but then it sort of gets warped and molded into, well, we want to see it, how it might hurt so and so, and we want to see.

So from your perspective, what do you want to see? What would be the value of this? What would be useful? So one of the things that's been sort of nagging is that there was a point, and this was kind of like the very end for me when I stopped dating Jeffrey, when he looked at me and said, I have video of you undressing in a bedroom in the brownstone. And it was something along the lines of it's the most beautiful thing I own or it's the most beautiful thing I've ever seen.

Being groped, being led into Donald's office, to be groped by him was bad enough. I probably was young enough and confused enough where maybe I was still questioning. But when he said to me, I have video of you undressed in a bedroom in my house and it's my I was I just it was so creepy and so dark. And so, you know, I've wondered ever since. Where's that video?

Was he lying? Does it exist? I know everyone's very video? Was he lying? Does it exist? I know everyone's very focused on lists, right? You know, where are the lists? But my question is, you know, what's in all those files that the government has the DOJ has? And, you know, is there video of me? I'd like to know if it exists. I think I speak for all the other, you know, victims who have come forward and

wonder if there's video of them. I think we'd like to know absolutely there's no video or there is, and this is where it is. You know, we just want more answers to have that just floating out there. And then when I saw Alan Dershowitz's piece about how, no, no, no, there were just videos for security reasons, I thought, well, that completely flies in the face of what Jeffrey said to me. That doesn't line up. So I have a lot of questions and I'm sure the other victims too.

So I do believe that the government owes all of us some facts and confirmation that videos exist. I mean, I certainly wouldn't want any victims exposed if there's video of them being abused. But we need to get beyond the list, I think, and we need to hear about those videos. I want to know. For closure purposes, just like, you know... Yes. Yes. Well, I mean, like, you know, there are these, you know, horrible acts perpetrated on women

and girls, and the government's interviewing the trafficker. It's crazy. Maybe cutting a deal. The government is interviewing a trafficker, not us. Maybe cutting a deal, who knows? But you know, I think like there is nothing transparent about this. And we'd like some more transparency as victims. And the government owes us that.

What is the Department of Justice for? The word justice means you don't interview the trafficker, you interview the victims, right? Or be honest with the victims. Sorry, I cut you off. No, no, please. No justice for the people, not for Donald Trump, right? Yeah. And pedophiles are, you know, people who are doing terrible things to women and girls. Yeah. Yeah.

If that's the case. On the video is just one more kind of point about this because something I've been thinking about lately is that you mentioned that the Dershowitz's explanation is that security footage, right? Well, Vance, it's a private conversation. So some Amaga podcaster said this, but he said they had dinner together. There's no reason to believe he'd be making this up. And he said that he asked Vance about the videos and that Vance says that it's commercial porn, that they don't have actually private secret videos.

And it's like, okay, I don't, who the hell knows? I don't know. And that seems extremely unlikely that Jeffrey Epstein, who is committing hundreds of sex crimes and had lots of video cameras in his house, wanted commercial porn instead. But like, who the hell knows with this guy? But you know, it shows that they're telling

all these different stories and they're not, and there's no like transparency about what the what the truth is with either the public or the victims. Yeah, yeah it's awful. I agree and there are a lot of victims right? I mean I don't understand it and and as for the Vance quote I mean I it wouldn't surprise me if there was if he had everything you know he had a collection of everything. We just want answers. There's no transparency. There's none. And again, to think that you're going to clear all this up by interviewing the trafficker, the convicted trafficker,

that's the solution? Yeah. Just before we sat down, she said that she's given them information on a hundred people. And I don't know, you know, okay. There certainly are a lot more collaborators out there and co-conspirators, but like there can't be any deal for Jelaine Maxwell. I mean, this was the person that was the ringleader of all of it. So that's not just. We are so far past, I mean, like truth, we're so post-truth and everything is so good. You know, we're in the upside down. So I mean, nothing would surprise me, but that would be truly horrific. I

can't imagine anyone could stomach her getting out. But you know, we'll see. We still need, all of us still need transparency. And if there are videos, you know, as per what Jeffrey said to me, I want to know. Yeah, and others. Yeah. Just two other random things that kind of I'm just curious. So like you, you came out, you talked about this, I guess, the first last year before the election. Was it, I mean, at that point, you could have just wanted to move on with your life. And was there something in particular that prompted it or that made you feel like you needed to say something?

Yeah, the possibility of him winning. I don't want the guy who sexually assaulted me in the White House. And I know that his campaign tried to spin it as, oh, a week or so before the election. And just to be clear as to how that happened, I am in a documentary that is out on the on the on the festival circuit right now about, you know, the the woman who founded the Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue and how she it's actually a feminist story, believe it or not, it's a fantastic film. It's called

Beyond the Gaze about how she was treated as the first female editor at Sports Illustrated and that old boys club and how many glass ceilings she broke. And then when she had like literally saved the magazine, she went to her boss and asked her raise because she couldn't afford childcare. And he said, you have a husband, you don't need a raise. And she, you know, at one point that was when I was doing it. I did it, I guess, eight years in a row. That was the most, at the time, that was the most lucrative brand in publishing history. I think it was the first time anyone could charge $2 million per advertising page. It was at its peak, right?

So, so that's the story of the documentary. So I got to know this crew that, you know, I shot with them constantly and we had a conversation and it was the first time I felt comfortable enough to disclose what had happened. And then it took two years to edit. It was only supposed to take a year, but that's how, you know, the filmmaking goes. And cut to the premiere is a week before the election. And I had to let, you know, lawyers know and everything. I said, look, you know, this is coming out.

They left this in where I say what did did and were a week before the election. Oh, it's on, it's in the doc. It's in the doc. And that's the first time I ever publicly disclosed. That's how I ended up doing all the media and everything right before the election. Because I thought to have it out there hanging without any context a week before the election, I need to get a handle on this and talk to people and everything. So that's how that happened. But then the timing of it looked to the conspiracy, conspiracies minded, looked like it was set

up to happen right before the election or something. So yeah, that's how I decided. People had urged me to do it for years. They said to the very least, and I have other friends who are victims and who haven't come forward and some who have, and we all talk about how you have to just be- Victims of Trump or other people? Other people in the industry,

a lot of them are out there, very public about it, some aren't. And so, you know, so many have come forward since me too, and I have always been uncomfortable about doing it. I chose to become anonymous and disappear and go into a different space. Once I was done with my modeling career, I turned down reality and television and movies and all that stuff and went underground.

I became a low-level Gray Davis appointee when I was 26. I had a totally different path. I had start volunteer, a completely different path in life. I love my private quiet, as my friends call it, your old spinster life. Yeah. So, yeah. But I decided it was time. I felt comfortable enough and then I let it... And then it just blew up and then I realized that it was really important for me to do.

So crazy. I know. I feel bad for all of you. And I talked to Gene about this and other victims, going back to 2016, right? There were a bunch of folks that came out after Access Hollywood and it's like to come out like that and then have... It isn't, but I could see how it might feel like it's like the American people are rendering a judgment on your story. We don't care, basically. And that's so tough, I think.

I just can't imagine. Oh, it's really tough. I mean, I had actual family members who were Q and honors because I'm from rural PA remember. So I had actual family members yell at me and call me bitter and it's been brutal. I mean, it's just this country's been savaged. It's just, it doesn't look like there's any end in sight. It's deeply personal for all of us who, you know,

went through it. I appreciate you coming out. I don't, I would, I appreciate you coming out. I don't. I'd be remiss if I didn't just ask you, because that's just curiosity killed the cat. And I can't. How do you think he had all that money, Jeffrey? And you were with him for three or four months.

But did he talk to you about that? Do you have any theories of the case? Where his money came from? It was always so vague. I never asked him directly. I mean, look, I was around Saudi Prince, you know, I mean, the access, the access that you have as a young like teenager, because you're this biological accent, or accident, is absurd when you think about it, right? Like I'm in the back rooms with politicians and billionaires and Saudi princes and everything

simply because my parents had sex one night. It's so ridiculous. And so it was the norm that I'd be around wealthy, powerful men. His was always a lot more confusing because that was a lot of wealth and I still don't understand it. That's another thing that would be nice. I think Senator from Oregon is looking into. Yeah.

And I also say that Adam Davidson, who I got to know through his podcast years ago, was a fantastic journalist. I think he actually has written about some of the linked up some of the money stuff. But yeah, I don't, I have no idea. I wish I knew. I think we all need a lot of answers. We do indeed. All right. Well, thank you, Stacey, so much for talking about this. I appreciate it. I would, I've like, I, we didn't know each other before this. I've been mentioning you this week.

I know. I keep getting texts. Okay, good. Well, thank you. From my friends. Because everyone loves you. Well, good. I appreciate that. And I appreciate that. When I got a text from your PR person, I was like, I hope everything I've been saying is right. I didn't want to get in trouble. You've been great.

Yeah, I kept being in the media and people would be like, well, just because his name is on the list doesn't mean he did anything wrong. They're like, what are you talking about? Many women have said that he sexually harassed or assaulted them. And specifically in the context of Epstein, women have, and, you know, including yourself. So... Yeah, you feel like, you know, I feel like, you know, you feel like you're screaming into the void sometimes. And the fact when this, this, you know, this happened, it blew up a little bit around the election, and then it was quiet. And then once it started heating up again, the last few weeks, again, like you said, everyone's like,

wow, just because they were in a photo, I'm like, what? Why did I get an ulcer in November? So yeah, thank you. I appreciate it really. And it's true. There are a bunch of us and I feel like people say this, but for everyone that comes forward, it makes someone else feel comfortable to come, you know, enough to come forward. So that's a good thing. So thank you. Really appreciate it.

Thank you, no, real honestly, I'm doing nothing. I'm just flapping my jaw. Thank you very much. Really appreciate you. And everybody else, thank you for joining us on the feed. Subscribe. We'll be talking to you all soon.