Bulwark Takes - Facing Fines and Expulsion, TX Dems Plot Next Steps (w/ James Talarico)

Episode Date: August 4, 2025

Texas State Rep. James Talarico joins Sam Stein from an undisclosed location in Illinois—far from the statehouse floor, to explain why Democrats fled Texas. They discuss the Trump-backed redistricting plan, why Talarico thinks California Democrats need to move on their own redistricting plan NOW, and the GOP’s flood relief bait-and-switch. Go to https://quince.com/BULWARKTAKES for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns!

Hey guys, it's me, Sam Stein, managing editor at the Bullwork. I'm joined by James Tellerico, who is from the Texas State House and not in Texas, actually today. James and his colleagues, his democratic colleagues have fled the state to deny quorum for this special session in which governor Greg Abbott at the behest of Donald Trump is pushing a fairly radical redistricting plan. James, thanks for joining us, really appreciate it. Tell us what the past 24 hours have been like. I know the decision was made, I believe on Saturday, and then on Sunday you guys left,

but tell us about the last 24 hours. Well, I love my home state. Kind of a homebody, I don't like hotel rooms or travel. It's not been a great 24 hours for me. It's probably not gonna be a great few weeks. I wish I had woken up in Austin, Texas. No offense to Illinois, but I wish I would go home. But the reason that we're doing this is because this Trump redistricting power grab is so

brazen. It's so egregious. I know that the bulwark is a sophisticated audience, but I just wanna explain real quick what I mean by these terms. So typically state legislators like me, we adjust our district boundaries for congressional races and state legislative races at the beginning of every decade after we get a new census

and we have new population numbers. But, and we did that in 2021 when the Texas Republicans drew a new map. But now Trump is asking those same Republicans to redraw the Texas maps in the middle of the decade to get him five more seats because he's worried he's going to lose his majority in Congress in the midterm elections because he's wrecking the economy, starting wars, protecting pedophiles, because he's kicking millions of Texans, millions of Americans off their healthcare to fund tax breaks for billionaires.

So he's trying to shield himself from the voters. He's trying to shield himself from accountability. And that should be unacceptable, no matter your political party, just as Americans, that's not how this system is supposed to work. Sure. Now, James, were you, I don't know if we have an exact number of how many of the 62 Democrats have fled the state. We know that there is a handful who have not.

57. Okay, 57, okay. And that's enough to deny a quorum, because I believe you have to have 100 of the 150 members of the House there. Talk a little bit granularly about what it was like to leave. I mean, obviously you wanted to do it with some secrecy so you weren't stopped.

But how fearful were you of being stopped at the border, for instance? We were very concerned about that. And our caucus leader did a great job, Representative Gene Wu from Houston. He is our fearless leader in this fight. And he and his team really pulled off a logistical feat, getting this many Democrats out of the state of Texas undetected. You know, I was only given about 24 hours notice. I knew this may happen. You know,

our caucus has been talking about this power grab for the last, you know, two months. We've been fighting it at the state Capitolitol for two weeks of this special legislative session, but I didn't know we were leaving, didn't know when we were meeting, where we were going until about 24 hours ahead of time. So that's how much time I had to pack and make my arrangements to be out of the state indefinitely. Now, you're facing some repercussions, obviously, $500 fine, which people might not think that's a big deal, but you get $600, I believe, to serve in this. So that's gone.

That's the four taxes, Sam. The four taxes. So that's one day, you're gone. But beyond that, in all seriousness, Greg Abbott, the governor, has made a statement this morning. I'm going to read it to you, and I just want your reaction to it. It reads like this. This truancy ends now. The derelict Democratic House members must return to Texas and be in attendance when the House reconvenes at 3 p.m. on Monday, August 4th. That's today. For any member who fails to do so, I will invoke Texas Attorney General Opinion Number KP-0382 to remove the missing Democrats from membership

in the Texas House. So that's based off of a non-binding opinion issued by the state attorney general, Ken Paxton, himself and broadened some ethical issues. But how serious do you take the idea or the threat? Yeah, that was putting it kindly. How seriously do you take the threat of the possible expulsion from the House here? I mean, we're ready to face consequences. I like how Greg Abbott and Ken Paxton act tough

on social media when it comes to us, but when the President of the United States tries to mess with Texas, they bend the knee. I wish they had the same fortitude, the same strength when it came to dealing with the President who's trying to rig our maps here in Texas. But this wasn't an easy decision for us. Not only are we facing these financial consequences, we may also be facing political consequences, as the governor alluded to. And Ken Paxson has

already called for us to be hunted. That was the word he used. So there are certainly security and safety concerns as well. I should also add that, you know, we're a part-time legislature in Texas, and so we are leaving behind our day jobs. We have jobs so we can make ends meet and pay our bills. We're leaving behind that income to be able to do this. Some of my colleagues are leaving behind young children. Some of them are leaving behind aging parents. So this was not an easy thing to do. It was not a decision we made lightly. But

this power grab is so brazen. It's so discriminatory. And it is so disruptive to the democratic process. We're not just fighting for Democrats. We're fighting for independents and Republicans too. We want free and fair elections in every single community across our state. And that is very much at risk with this redistricting power. But you think it's legitimate that you could be thrown out of the House by the governor? You know, I wouldn't put anything past Governor Abbott. He's trying to silence my constituents' voices with this map. And so he may try to silence them by removing their elected representatives.

I mean, when someone is acting so undemocratically, we have to expect anything in every way. And the other option thrown around by a colligators, Jared Patterson and Frisco, was to actually gerrymander the House seats, the state House seats. So that would be another form of this. I want to talk about sort of the process here because there have been walkouts before like this, 2003, obviously, 2021. I believe in 2003, it ended when one of the Democrats returned to the state capital and the quorum was achieved. In 2021, correct me if I'm wrong, but it ended after governor just called the second special session. And Governor Abbott has that right to do that.

I mean, it's a 30 day special session, but he can always just call a second one. So how would this one end any differently than the other two? We're not sure. We're taking this one session at a time. The current special session will end in two weeks. And so we have all committed to killing these maps and stopping this corrupt special session will end in two weeks. And so we have all committed to killing these maps

and stopping this corrupt special session from reaching that end. But we don't know what's gonna happen after that. We've heard from blue state governors that they may retaliate with their own gerrymandering. I hope that could convince Republicans in Texas and Republicans nationally to walk back from the brink. I don't think any of us want this race to the bottom,

this descending spiral of partisanship. I think we can all agree that we should have citizen-led, independent, redistricted commissions in every state. I actually filed a bill last week to introduce that concept in the state legislature in Texas. That is the vision. That is the goal.

But if Republicans insist on cheating, I think Democrats are going to respond in kind and they're going to match energy. They're not going to unilaterally disarm, nor should they. And so we'll see what happens. I think there's a lot of variables in play here and who knows where we'll be in two weeks. Bullwork Takes is sponsored by Quince. Why drop a fortune on basics for your wardrobe when you don't have to?

Quince has the good stuff. High quality fabrics, classic fits, and lightweight layers for warm weather, all at prices that make sense. Everything I've ordered from Quince has been nothing but solid. Quince has closet staples you'll want to reach for over and over like cozy cashmere and cotton sweaters for just under $50, breathable flow knit polos, and comfortable, lightweight pants

that somehow work for both weekend hangs and dressed up dinners. Best part? Everything with Quince is half the cost of similar brands. By working directly with top artisans and cutting out the middlemen, Quince gives you luxury pieces without the markup. And Quince only works with factories that use safe, ethical, and responsible manufacturing practices and premium fabrics and finishes. I ordered a polo shirt and some joggers from Quince and let me tell you, it's done wonders for my wardrobe and wonders for my sleep. Keep it classic and cool with long lasting staples from Quince.

Go to quince.com slash bulwarktakes for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's q u i n c e dot com slash bulwarktakes to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince dot com slash board takes. Yeah, I've talked to a couple of Dems who say they regret not tying the independent commissions to Republican states doing the same. That's another conversation. You did mention to my old colleague Adam ran a playbook

that one of the ways out of this is sort of mutually assured destruction. I think you're alluding to that where it's like, well, if we do this in Texas, then Governor Newsom will, you know, gerrymander six Republicans out of elected office in California. I hear your point, but I would just argue that,

and you can push back on me here, but would it make sense for Newsom to move now? Wouldn't mutually assured destruction require Texas Republicans recognizing, or I guess national Republicans recognizing that something will happen rather than just talking about something happening. Yeah I completely agree and Texas Republicans are doing it. They have passed this map out of committee so they're moving and I think blue state governors should move as well and so if there are listeners to

this show who live in a blue state, particularly a blue state with a trifecta, a blue house, a blue Senate and a blue governor's mansion, please call your elected representatives and tell them to respond, tell them to act. We have to stand up to these bullies. in the land of Lincoln because Abraham Lincoln actually broke quorum as a state senator in 1840 by jumping out of the window of the Illinois state Capitol. Thankfully, I didn't have to jump out of any windows yesterday. I saw you use that line already. We are participating in a long American tradition of standing up to bullies, of civil disobedience. Your critics say, well, it's also probably went to Illinois because that's an incredibly gerrymandered state in the opposite direction.

They've basically written Republicans almost out of existence. And I've said that redistricting, when it's used for these blatant political purposes, this kind of gerrymandering, it's wrong when any party does it, when my party does it or when the Republican party does it. Now, I will say, though, that this power grab in Texas is unique. It is so brazen, it's happening in the middle of the decade. Like I said, we typically do this at the beginning of the decade after a new census. So this is essentially like two football teams coming out of the locker room at halftime,

and the team that's ahead says they want to change the rules in the second half to make sure they stay ahead. It's cheating, plain and simple. And if they're going to cheat, we're not going to play. I have two more questions for you. One is on the federal government here, because unlike in 2003, although, well, unlike in 2003, we now have a White House that is openly pushing for this, saying without any qualm that they want to gain seats in power. I mean, there's no pretext here other than we want to control the House.

They also have shown a real aggressive posture towards using federal resources and federal agencies in very political manner. So to the degree that you're able to talk about it or want to talk about it, I suppose, I mean, what are your fears around or expectations around DHS, FBI, law enforcement agencies on the federal level being involved or brought into this? Well, Texans don't scare easily. We also don't surrender easily, if you know anything about our state's history. And so we are fighting for our constituents, Democrats, independents and Republicans alike, and we're ready to face whatever consequences may come. But this is bigger than us. It's bigger than us personally, it's bigger

than our individual careers, or even our individual districts. I mean, this is about whether or not we will have a representative democracy. And the Republican Party is led by a president who has shown a complete disregard and disdain for the peaceful transfer of power. So that's what's at stake here. The stakes really couldn't be any higher. This is not just about Texas. This is about the whole country. This is about the democratic process. This democracy is flawed. We have to fix it so that it works for everybody. But when you have people in power trying to hold on to power at any cost, it prevents us from making progress on all the issues we care about, housing, healthcare, education, flood relief for the victims in the Hill Country.

This is the rot at the core of our broken political system. And it's finally time that someone stands up to these bullies at the national level. That was going to be my last question, which is the special session had two main components It's finally time that someone stands up to these bullies at the national level. That was going to be my last question, which is the special session had two main components to it. One was, of course, the redistricting that you're seeing right now, but the other one was flood relief. And now that is what?

Is it just going to languish there until something is done? I mean, what is the future of flood relief in Texas? Well, we had two weeks of this special session. We came to Austin to the state Capitol. We begged our Republican colleagues to prioritize those flood victims and their families and preventing a disaster from happening in the future. That's the responsible thing to do.

That's the real emergency that deserves the attention of state lawmakers. But instead, Governor Abbott and our Republican colleagues used those flood victims as leverage to play politics, to pass these rigged maps, to silence the voices of Texans across our state. I mean, that's, it's disgusting. It is politics at its worst. We should have put flood victims first.

We should have put flood mitigation first, but instead they put it behind these redistricting maps. They had two weeks and they didn't even file a flood bill. And so this is being used as a talking point by our Republican colleagues to muddy the waters here. We should keep our focus on this power grab and demand that they put away these rig maps and focus on the flood victims in central Texas. It is telling that they didn't move that first before redistricting. All right, James Tellerico of the Texas State House, not in Texas, in Illinois. Very nondescript background, I think chosen strategically.

Thank you seriously for joining us. I appreciate the time. I know you're incredibly busy. Thanks to everyone for watching this. I appreciate that as well. Please subscribe to our YouTube view where you get conversations like this. James, take care.

Thank you, Sam.