Bulwark Takes - Holy Cow, THIS Is How You Beat Trump!

Episode Date: April 20, 2026

Sam Stein and Sarah Longwell take on why two Democrats are breaking through, and what the rest of the party is still getting wrong. They look at standout appearances from Jon Ossoff and Pete Buttigieg, focusing on message discipline, authenticity, and why showing up in tough places matters more than chasing the latest podcast trend.

All right, hey, everybody. It's me, Sam Stein. Here again with Sarah Longwell. We're going to talk about a set of speeches from budding young Democrats over the weekend that I think stood out to both of us, in part because, you know, the quality of the message and then in part because of where it was delivered. Talking about John Osaf, Senator from Georgia and Pete Buttigieg, who is likely to run for president in 2028. I saw just clips of this. I know, Sarah, you saw much more than I did. And you were really hot to talk about this. Why? Because I think that there's been a very stupid conversation happening about, you know, which podcast should candidates go on and, you know, who's the new left Joe Rogan and all this stuff? And like, I couldn't be more, I couldn't think those are more silly because what you need to do, this was always about the candidates. It's not about the podcasters. Like, all of that stuff is stealing attention from can candidates walk into places like Oklahoma, like Kansas, like Georgia, which is awesome. home state. But can in those places, can these candidates pitch a compelling message, which is a contrast message? Let me tell you all the way, all the ways Donald Trump is destroying things, how corrupt he is, how Epstein, like whatever, him bad, right? We good. This is what Democrats need to do. Him bad, we good. And so Pete and Aesoff have been out there doing the thing where it needs to be done, the shoe leather with real people, real voters, not people who sit on streams and podcasts,

but, and look, those people vote too sometimes. But these are the actual places. The candidates need to go. So I have been almost giddy to watch them. Assoff has been pounding away at Trump, doing perfect messaging in the way that I've been begging Democrats and start talking. Do you have a clip? Hold on. I just before I get that, I want to make sure I get this sage advice from you. written down. Him bad. Him bad. We good. We, we good. Okay. It's given away some free advice to campaigns. All right, let's play the Asov clip, which was really good. I'll say this about

Asaf. He does this every week, it seems like. He's got this event in Georgia. And he's got this quality speaking about him that I think is both calming but also piercing. And it makes her great viral content because it always gets passed around. This one in particular stood at. Let's play the clip. Now, Augusta, I don't know if you saw, but J.D. Vance was in Georgia this week. Don't worry. No one showed up. The stadium, the stadium was empty. Did you see that? But J.D. came to UGA to attack the Pope. Two days after Donald Trump depicted himself as Jesus Christ. The faithless president. depicts himself as Christ while he plunges the nation into wars of choice,

while he and his family raking billions from foreign princes, while he plunders our health care to cut taxes for the rich. Meanwhile, rent, power, groceries, and health care have all hit all-time highs this year. This year, ground beefs up 20% since Trump took office. coffee 40% health premiums through the roof and remember while you pay more for everything

the first family's wealth is growing by billions of dollars because they're crooks and everybody knows it I'll just say before you jump in this guy offers this kind of preacher's cadence in this kind of slow methodical delivery he's Jewish

Just want to be clear. That man is Jewish, but he's talking like he's in the pews. The work is all in the pauses, Sam. It's all in the pauses. I got to tell you. But he's doing everything. Look, it's not about me. It's not about what lands with me.

I'm not saying that. I'm just saying, like, this is the thing I've been begging for. That is it right there. He is not exercised, but he is making fun of them. Yeah. And he kept doing this thing. It's not in this club exactly, but he kept saying, I don't know if you guys have heard about it because he understands that not everybody is following

all of the insane machinations of what he's done. He's telling a story about what Trump is doing and he is tying that corruption directly to affordability. Affordability is not just a buzzword, right? It is a thing where you are saying he is stealing, he is doing this bad thing and you are hurting, right? That is the contrast message. There and there are places elsewhere where then he gets into what he would do, what he believes it, right? Which is the wee good part. He delivers it all. And the whole time, his dimple is working.

That shirt is tight across his chest. He is his handsome. He is his handsome. And look, not even for me. But I am sitting there being like, hi. Hey, John. He is the kind of person that everybody's like, what a nice young man. He looks like, and they know who they said that about.

They said it about Barack Obama. Hope is that thing inside us that insists, despite all the evidence to the contrary, that something better awaits us if we have the courage to reach for it and to work for it and to fight for it. This is my question for you. This is my question for you. Well, first of all, I appreciate that he does it for you. Secondly, this is like, you know, Jewish mom's dream, basically, this guy. Third, though, in a serious note, it's like, people are always talking about moderates. and the need to run moderates and centristism and all its stuff.

And I get it. And I see the case and I see the merit. But how much is it, in your estimation, policy moderation versus stylistic moderation, not being a fire breather, talking slow and professionally, looking calm and relaxed? I mean, that was Obama a little bit too, right? Like he was just chill and that was his whole persona. I'm chill, not exercised. I got this shit done.

Don't worry. And I feel like all stuff's kind of going for the same thing. I don't know if that translates the same way as policy moderation, but I'm curious how you interpret that and whether that's the type of stuff that comes up in all these focus groups that you do. Now, here's what he has, and it has nothing to do with moderate versus progressive. It's not even temperamental moderation versus, you know, policy moderation. That is a guy who is comfortable in his own skin. Like when people talk about authenticity, what they mean is, when I'm a lot of,

I'm watching you, when I'm listening to you, does it feel, can I see all the artifice? Or does it seem like you know what you're talking about? Does it seem like you know what you're talking about? Does it seem like you feel it in your bones? And the way he's talking feels like this is who this guy is. And so like you don't need to be prescriptive about how exactly people need to do it. Now look, I reject the centrist progressive frame because I don't think it's helpful because the voters are neither centrist nor progressive. They are a weird salad that have sometimes strong opinions about things and sometimes no opinions about things, right?

And so the question is, is can you build trust with them? Do they feel like you care about them? Do they feel like you're going to care about the things that are going to help them in their lives? And like some of it is like in the not fire breathing. It's more like, do I feel like I can tolerate you for a long time? It's like I'm not acting for a long time. Yeah.

I'm not acting for the sake of. trying to win your vote. Like, that's it. The artifice is what you're talking about. And, like, you can tell when a politician is just putting on some shine, right? And it's just like, they're screaming, but why? Or, like, you know, they're telling bad jokes that someone wrote for them. It's like, you don't need that. Yeah. Or, uh, so one of the things that I have seen is that, you know, Democrats are all getting this, this authenticity memo. And so they've decided to start swearing. Um, and I think that that's sort of a goofy thing, because if you're good at swearing, like if you're somebody who naturally, authentically uses it in front of people in these ways,

then maybe that works. But if you're doing it to sound like you're a real person, everyone feels that. You can smell it. This is one of those things. This is like the Supreme Court justice when asked for a definition of art versus pornography. And he says, I know it when I can see it. You cannot be prescriptive about this. You can just know it when you see it.

And that guy has it. And I have been feeling it. Well, he didn't swear in that clip notably. All right, another guy who people at the bulwark tend to like, but also I think fairly is also comfortable in his own skin and comes off authentically. Is Pete Buttigieg interesting here is the setting. You referenced it above. He was in Tulsa. And the reports are something like 1,800 people or something crazy like that.

People can fact check me in the comments. Showed up because Democrats don't normally go to Tulsa. Now, Tulsa's, you know, a city and one of Oklahoma's, you know, hubs. But still, like to have a Democrat's state. step foot in that state is notable. And while he was there in sort of an interesting, almost ironic Q&A part, he was asked about talking to people who hold different views. And he's talking a little bit about TPSA, the conservative organization that shows up at college campuses a lot and made real inroads. And let's hear what Pete had to say. One of the number one reasons I'd be worried living in a state

with education ranked 50th out of 50, is that if people aren't ready to think for themselves, we're going to have a problem because we're not just educating people to be workers, we're educating people to be citizens and to think. So part of it's investing in our education system. Part of it, I think, is outreach. Look, as a tactical matter, I'll give the turning point folks a lot of strategic credit

for going to a lot of different places. Again, to them, going to these college campuses is kind of the equivalent in their minds of the way I feel when I go on Fox News. The difference is when I go on Fox News, I'm telling the truth. But that idea of going everywhere is something we got to do too. You know, this idea developed a long time ago that the universities kind of served the left,

and so they're going to have these think tanks and organizations and corporate funded efforts to kind of counterfeit. balance that and serve the right. But right now it's not really working the same way that it used to in terms of where the left gets its ideas. Actually, I think this is a real problem for anybody left of center in this country. All the more important then to cultivate independent thinking. And I think one of the reasons why institutions like universities and museums and national parks and late night television comedy

and journalism have come under attack is not because they are liberal, it's because they are independent. And we need to defend the independence of these institutions and their ability to think for themselves. Oh my God, it's so good. Also, listen, this is not,

but it's like he read my book. Like, this is, I talk about this, the way that Republicans have built their infrastructure and the way that Democrats have not built that infrastructure. And so they've got to start thinking about how they can go to all of these places that already exist and then like build new things to amplify those messages. Like I feel like he has grasped the essential thing about you got to build new things. You got to go talk to everybody, everything, everywhere, all at once communication strategy. And not, again, like people get bogged

down on these questions about podcasts and streamers and who's in the tent and who's in the tent. don't talk to me. Go talk to them. Talk to these people. Do you know why? And like this is this idea that he is in Tulsa. Remember what happened last time in Tulsa? It was when Trump went there.

Yeah, it was COVID Central. Herman King died. Died from that from that rally. But here's what Pete's doing. Pete's saying, I know everybody matters here. And I'm going to go to these places because I'm going to, I'm not just trying to win an election. I'm trying to win a conversation about America and who we are. And, like, that is what I appreciate.

Well, let me just do a quick correction. They, of course, can come on our program and talk to us. We would welcome them all the time. But they should go on the other ones, too. I've long found it incredibly inexplicable. Inexplicable that Democrats don't try every night or every day to just get on Fox. What's the downside? They're going to absolutely vilify you no matter what.

So you might as well put a human face on it. You might as well try to reach people who aren't getting your message anyway. But it's not just Fox. You have to build infrastructure. You have to build institutions to reach people who otherwise aren't reachable. You have to figure it out. You have to do it creatively. And frankly, Democrats, as long as I've covered them, it's been about almost 20 years now,

they have been totally fine talking to their own side. Yeah. And that's it. And I don't get it. But Pete, you know, it's funny because the other person who's done this is someone like totally on the opposite side of the ideological ledger for Democrats, which is Bernie Sanders. Bernie goes all over the place. I mean, he did famously go to West Virginia to sell Obamacare, which he didn't even like as a law, but he was selling it during the first Trump administration

because it was under attack. And these crowds would show up and they're like, hell yeah, we love it. Finally, someone is paying attention to us. Well, part of it, too, is about what kind of coalition do Democrats want to build? Because if they want to be the party of college-educated suburban voters, they can be, but there's not enough of them. There's not enough of them for a winning political coalition. And so, like, you have to win working class voters. Like, this is what Trump has done that has changed the game for the two parties that I'm not sure other Republicans are going to be capable of doing, but I'm sure that Democrats need to figure out how to do again, which is to say, I care about working people. That's what I'm here to, that's what I'm here to talk about.

Yeah, I don't know if Republicans are going to be able to capture what Trump did, partly because of his ubiquity and his media presence, right? Like, that's just, That really was a game changer because it's really hard to reach. Just as I said, you should go there everywhere. It's hard because everywhere is so vast. It's hard to get on every channel. And then, of course, even if you go there, it's not like you're guaranteed to get an audience. But with Trump, he could always get an audience because he was outrageous because he just had ubiquity and he was a good media manipulator.

I think there's a lot of concern or skepticism that Pete, because he is gay, can win in America. And I just think that he can. is doing something that nobody else is first of all so ossoff is giving these speeches because osoph is running a race for senate right now okay so he's got to be out there those are not presidential level speeches even though they sound like it to me he's raising huge dollars in georgia which money is not just about money money money is a metric for enthusiasm but pete is out there saying i'm going to run in 2028 and the way i'm going to do that is right now i'm going to start early. I'm going to go all kinds of places and I'm going to show people who I am in

long form. I'm going to hang out with them. They're going to see me. And to me, that is the way. I have been feeling both these guys. Yeah. I mean, Pete's probably, I agree with you that he can win, but his problem obviously is not, is less the general. It's more the primary, right? I mean, he needs to get black primary voters to support. This is the constant sort of knock on Pete is the idea that sort of black voters don't support him. And he does have work to do in that area. I think, though, I mean, he looks like a guy capable of doing that work, right? I mean, he looks like a guy who he knows, he knows his vulnerabilities, and he's doing this even before the midterms.

He's out there showing up trying to figure out, like, how do I put this coalition together? How do I let them put eyes on me and hear me? I will say that. Next to Newsom, who by virtue of the redistricting fight and his book and just his, you know, being the governor of California, I think Pete, it's fair to say, has probably been the most out there Democrat of all the 2028ers. I mean, he does events regularly. He's going on podcasts.

He's in the zeitgeist. He's talking. He's engaging. He's going on Fox. Like, he's doing the stuff to make sure that people remember he's there. And the numbers are pretty steady for him. Like, they're there. Yeah, he needs to pick it.

I mean, look, here's the thing about Newsom, though. And I think there's a story about him recently where he purchased a great deal of the books that comprised his book sale. Well, he did it in a roundabout way. He had to donate to his pack. And you got to have a lot of it. free book. You got a buck. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That to me is a pretty good encapsulation of Newsom in a way where Pete, Pete is doing the thing. Pete is not, Pete is saying, I'm going to go toe to toe and face

to face. I'm going to show up. I'm going to show up and I'm going to be there. And over time, when you do that enough, voters respond to that, right? Voters say, I see you showing up. I see you trying to win me over. And that's what they want. And they want to see that you can articulate a case against these people. I'll tell you, Asaf's going hard in the paint, which I think voters really want, but he's doing in a way that is sort of like measured like a metronome. Right. Whereas Pete is also, he's going hard in kind of a, in a, in a peatish kind of way. Oh, man. What is Pete going hard even look like? It's not that. I don't know. I mean, well, it's like,

it's like, you know what, honestly, it's just he is a, he is a man with the best words. And so he will sit there with what Joe Kernan on CNBC He will take you down limb from limb. What are you going to do differently to make the prices actually go down like you promised to your... Number one, we've got to get through this war. And you've heard people... We got to get through this war. We didn't have to be fighting this war.

What are we doing? I needed to smoke afterwards. It was so good. And I just... That was a good one. I love watching Pete dismantle people in his chill kind of way. I want to talk about one other thing he said. He was talking about how Democrats have to...

It's not enough to just piece together the shit that Trump broke. Yeah. But that Democrats have to... Gotta look forward. Picture of the day when the current president, the first time that the sun comes up over Tulsa, and the current president has left the political scene, right? Definitely something to look forward to.

But then what? Then what? And my word of warning to my own political party is that we would make a terrible mistake if we thought that our job was to just take power somehow and then put everything back the way it was. That's not what we're here to do. We're not out to go around

and just find all the little bits and pieces of everything that they smashed and tape it together and say, here you go, I give you the world as it looked in 2023. That's not going to work. It's not what we need. so much has changed. And the truth is they are destroying things right and left. They're destroying a lot of good, important things.

They're destroying some useless things too because they're destroying everything. So now we get a chance to put things together on different terms. We just talked about Obama. And that is Obama-esque, basically. I mean, that's just basically it's like when he was running against Bush, he's like, we got to move beyond the politics of the past. That was the entire message. And I do think there's virtue to it.

Obviously, Obama won. But, you know, people want to like, as much as it's anger and hatred of Trump that motivates so many voters these days. And as much as there is going to have to be a real cleanup job, I think fundamentally to get people who are not necessarily going to vote Democratic, to vote Democratic, you have to be more forward-looking. And he recognizes that. And can I just say that you want another piece of advice that is right up there with him bad, we good? We good. Yeah. In bad, we good.

When you watch these guys, I would, I think a lot about the bulwark and how. Now, like, to build a community, you have to be a community, right? One of the things people like is that we all kind of bounce off each other. I think if I were Pete and I were John Ossoff and I were people who were looking to make a pitch in 2020, I wouldn't wait for debates and being pitted against each other. I'd hit the road together. I'd sit down and be like, let's talk about what the future looks like. Let's talk about our ideas.

Let's engage. Let's argue. Like, let people see you bounce off each other now. That is interesting. That's intriguing. I think that people all talk about reaching across the aisle and we got to win. You know who does it? You know who does it?

Bernie and AOC do it. They've got like kind of a generational buddy thing where they appear together and stuff. People love that. But they're not competing against each other. Doesn't matter. If I were people who wanted to be top tier contenders, I would be like, let's do it together. It's like on Survivor, right? You got to trust some people in the beginning.

You can cut your throats at the very end. But to go far, you got to be, you got to be together. You got to trust each other for parts of the gate. All right. We'll see if anyone picks up on that idea. Sarah, thank you so much. Great being back with you. Everyone, subscribe to the bulwark,

where we take time out of our busy Sundays and YouTube with each other. That's what we do. Bye-bye.