Bulwark Takes - How Democrats Plan to Fight Trump’s New Maps (w/ Suzan DelBene)

Episode Date: October 29, 2025

House Democrats are fighting back in what’s shaping up to be a national redistricting war. Joe Perticone talks with Rep. Suzan DelBene, chair of the DCCC, about how Donald Trump pushed Texas to redraw its congressional map and how states like California, Virginia, Indiana, and New York are now responding. Get 30% off your first order from Soul at https://GetSoul.com with promo code: BulwarkTakes

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please contact Connix Ontario at 1866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. But MGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming Ontario. Hey, guys, welcome to The Bullwork. I'm Joe Perdicone, the Congressional Reporter and author of The Press Pass Newsletter. Today, I've got a special guest, Susan Del Bene, who is the chair of the D-Triple-C, which is the Democratic House Democrats campaign arm. She also represents Washington's first district, which is, I believe, Bellevue is there? Uh-huh. Perkling, Bellevue. Bellevue defeated DeLisal and football and ended a 12-year winning streak.

which is a huge deal in the Bay Area where I'm from. So that's the only way I know Bellevue. How are you doing? I'm doing okay. It's a tough time for a lot of our communities. You're enjoying the six-week recess that Mike Johnson gave you? It's terrible. It's terrible.

They've been on vacation. And then you're right. They've been on vacation for six weeks. I'm in D.C. right now continuing to fight because we absolutely should make sure that we are funding the government and supporting the programs that help the American people. And Republicans are nowhere to be found. So today we're going to talk about the redistricting that's happening in various other states. And as chair of the D-Triple-C, you'd be especially keyed into what's happening where it's really happening and actually might have an effect in the next election, where it might

be good for Democrats or bad for Democrats. So I'd just like to start off with, you know, how this process started. We all know that Texas was the first to kind of jump into this and say, we're going to do this unorthodox thing. As a result, many states have responded, and that's kind of exploded over the past few months. So what's the current status? Well, to your point on how it started, it started because Donald Trump called up Republicans in Texas and said, give me five seats. And they said, yes, sir. This was not something the people of Texas asked for. In fact, you talk to the people of Texas, they hate this. They think they should be electing their representatives,

not having politicians in Texas pick their voters. And yet Republicans continue to jam this through, and following up on that, we've also seen Donald Trump and J.D. Vance continue to push other Republican states to redraw their maps. And we are not going to stand by why they do this. This impacts everyone's representation across the country. And so you've seen states like California, who led the effort, respond strongly.

And maybe one big thing about California is it's going to the voters. The voters are going to decide if California does new maps, Prop 50, which is on the ballot right now in the state of California. People understand what Republicans are doing. They hate it. And they also understand that this is part of the effort to fight back. And definitely the folks of California are going to be a key. part of doing that. Because let's be clear, if the American people are with you on where you stand on

policy, if you feel like you have the American people on your side, you aren't trying to rig the system. Republicans are trying to rig the system because people do not support their policies. They're raising costs for American families, all of those things. And instead of listening to their constituents and understanding what they could do to earn their support, they're trying to rig the system. So in California, it's a unique case because it does have to go to voters. And a lot of the times when they do these ballot measures, it's really hard to paint them as, you know, Democrat versus Republican. But in this case, it's pretty very clear that it's Democrats want to change these districts in retaliation to Texas. And Republicans don't. You've seen a few Republicans. I know

Kevin Kiley, who represents part of Northern California, he was one of the first to say, no, we shouldn't do this, but of course he didn't say that until after Texas it started. Do you think that it being sort of tethered to the party politics, at least in California, do you think that's a good thing for you? Because, for example, you know, we go back, you know, 20 years, California voted against legalizing same-sex marriage because it wasn't directly tied to a party thing. It was just a statewide ballot. So do you think this is working more in your advantage? And are you optimistic about Prop 50 passing? Well, first of all, Well, Kevin Kiley didn't stand up until after folks in California started to stand up and talk about new maps.

He wasn't speaking out about Texas and what was happening in Texas. Republicans across the board could have been speaking out about how this was a terrible path to be going down, but they haven't. But the people of Texas hate this in a bipartisan way. The people in California understand that this is where Republicans, are going and that it's going to impact their representation in the House of Representatives. And so they are fighting back. And so I think there's been strong support for Prop 50. People absolutely understand what this is. This is about fighting back to protect representation, given that Republicans are trying to gerrymander their way into long-term majority in the House

of Representatives. I spoke to Adam Schiff earlier in the year, right when Texas started doing this. And he made the point that this is tantamount to disenfranchisement of Texas voters. And then in the next breath, he said, well, if they do it, then California has to respond in kind. And that kind of struck me as odd because it was sort of saying, this is bad. Well, now we have to do a bad thing. How do you square that on just an ethical level? And do you think that this kind of redistricting efforts that's now happening in California, Texas, Virginia, Ohio, Indiana, New York, Florida, Illinois, Utah is a different case, but Utah as well.

Do you think that we're now in this era where there's going to be wars like this, redistricting wars, every midterm cycle or every few years? Well, there shouldn't be, and it shouldn't have started this way. And I think Democrats have been very clear about that. California is very clear that this is a response to what's happening in Texas and that they would go back to drawing lines and commission. We need federal legislation clearly to make it clear that states like what Texas is doing can't be constantly redrawing maps just for their own political benefit that they're doing right now. But we are also not going to sit idly by while they do this. Again, this is going to the voters of California, so they are going to have a decision to make here. But they

understand. They see what Republicans are doing across the country absolutely in Texas. And people understand how important it is to respond. How are your front-line candidates handling this? Because I know that, for example, if Prop 50 passes somewhere like in Orange County where Young Kim is the incumbent Republican, that district actually sort of becomes more Republican, if I have the map correct. And maybe that might be good for her or bad for her if she has to face another

Republican in a primary, but it kind of alters the state of that race. and maybe somebody who is vying to get into that seat, what's been the response so far? Is it support or are people? I think people absolutely understand the members of the California delegation understand what's at stake here. This is about representation across the country. It's about Republicans trying to gerrymander their way into power over the long term. And so people understand that.

They absolutely understand what's at stake. You know, Republicans not only trying to rig the system here, but disenfranchised voters, attack campaign finance laws. They are going after everything because they know the American people are not with them. So we are absolutely going to continue to fight back. The American people hate what Republicans are doing, and we've seen that not only in Texas, but I'm talking to voters in Missouri, hate that they're pursuing this. Members of our delegations understand why we're doing this.

you've seen states respond, and it's about making sure that the People's House really represents the people. So on the opposite end, in Texas, for example, where districts could become a lot more difficult for Democrats, is there any kind of tailoring messaging differently because the makeup of the map might make the priorities different for the voters? There's a new report out from Welcome, which kind of looked at the past decade of democratic messaging and how things have become more popular or less popular, an area like immigration, for example, border security. Where do you see your Democratic candidates

in the maybe once frontline districts in Texas now adjusting their message to be more palatable in a more purple district? Well, remember, we've been successful in purple districts. We have 14 Democrats in Congress right now who won in districts that Donald Trump also one in. And the reason we even picked up two seats in November of 2024 overperforming across the country. One, because we have great candidates who are authentic talking about the issues that matter

head on in their districts. Clearly, number one has been the need to lower costs, affordability across the country. But as we saw, even in a special election in New York, Tom Swazi and Long Island, talked about immigration head-on, top issue. Republicans hid from the issue. He talked head-on about what he would do to make a difference. I think we know when we have great candidates, which we have across the country, talking about the issues that matter, we win. And absolutely true over and over and over again.

Plus, right now, in special elections across the country, Democrats are running 15 points ahead since where we were in November of 2024. because Republicans promised to lower costs on day one. They've done nothing but raised costs, food, housing, health care, child care, energy costs going up because of the actions of this administration and Republicans in Congress. And people are responding to that. So Republicans should also be careful on what they ask for because when they start redrawing these maps, they may think they're drawing seats that are going to be Republican seats.

But the folks are going to decide our voters and we're going to compete. in every single one of those districts where we see opportunities, and we're going to pick up some of those seats, too. So one of the latest states, and there's a long list, is Virginia. So Virginia has a lot of districts that have been longtime Republican districts. I remember, I believe it was Barbara Comstock. She had held just outside of D.C. for a really long time, and that's now a pretty blue district.

How do you think something like the government shutdown has played in these areas with a lot of federal workers, and even states where they're not going into redistricting like Georgia, but has, Georgia has, you know, over 100,000 federal employees. How is the shutdown playing for you guys? Well, I think a shutdown is a terrible thing always. And from the very beginning of this administration, they have been terrible to federal workers, Doge, firing folks who are doing critical jobs, in many cases, you know, then understanding that they have to go back and bring people back,

because they indiscriminately fired workers, agencies being gutted, putting more and more responsibility on the federal workers who remain. So they've been terrible to federal workers who work on important programs that the American people depend on. Now they've just escalated that during the shutdown.

It's not about what do we do to help the American people. This administration has been focused on what they can do to be more cruel every day. And not just a federal worker, but definitely to federal workers, but to American families. It is people understand and see that happening every day from the big ugly bill that they passed to their refusal for Republicans in Congress,

even to show up in Washington, D.C., to make sure that we find a solution to fund the government and support families in health care. We can do that. People know that they are not even here. We haven't been in session in the House for over a month. That's what Republican leadership gets you. It gets you of representatives who aren't even willing to do their jobs during such a critical time.

So people see that. Absolutely. They see that in Virginia. They see that across the country. And does that impact kind of people's feelings about what needs to happen here so that we have a check on this president and a Congress that's actually going to do its job? Absolutely. Are you optimistic about, for example, Prop 50, I think Democrats are pretty optimistic. that that will pass, in a state like Virginia where there's a Republican governor, but they don't

really need the governor and they can just kind of go ahead and do this. There's probably some optimism there. In states like Indiana, for example, how do you suppose you're going to resist this in any way? Or is there, how are you tracking this? And how is the math, is it constantly just changing math for you? Well, you know, they are continuing to push all across. across the country where they can. You even saw J.D. Vance going to the state of Indiana to push. You know, there are even Republicans in Indiana who know how terrible this is and that they shouldn't be doing that.

But the administration is going to be pushed, and the administration is going to push on state leaders. And we've seen Republicans over and over again just cave. Even when they know it's the wrong thing for their communities, they've caved. And so, but the people understand the people hate this across the board, and people are speaking out. They're putting pressure on their state legislators to stand up and fight against this effort by the administration. And even in places like Missouri, where we see an effort for a referendum on the effort that they're doing to try to put in place redistricting. People want to have a voice and express their voice and express their outrage about what Republicans are trying to do.

So we're going to continue to see that, but we are also going to see states like California, like Maryland, and obviously the conversations in Illinois and Virginia, because people understand that this impacts their representation as well. Do you think that New York has been, for example, that would have been a state where Democrats could, if they could redraw the map, could get a lot of seats? Do you think their process, and for a while, California's process, seemed very difficult because there's, you know, these independent commissions. In New York, there's a lot more steps required compared to some of these other states.

Has that been a disappointment or a more difficult fight? And are you optimistic about New York possibly changing? Well, I think, again, what this really highlights is how important it is to make sure that we have consistent view on redistricting, that we don't have Republicans trying to redistricting. draw the maps over and over again mid-cycle to try to gain advantage. North Carolina, I think, has had a new map almost every year as they can, so this is an effort that they continue to put in place. Republicans have tried over and over again. Democrats agree and understand that we need to make sure that we have maps in place,

fair maps in place that stay in place for a cycle, for a census cycle for that 10 years. That's really important, but we're only going to get there if we have leaders who agree with that. Right now, we have Republicans who are willing to undermine everything. So that would impact what happens going forward in the long term. But right now, you're going to see states, and there's a recent lawsuit filed in New York on one of the districts there, but you're going to continue to see this. I think in many places, folks continue to fight back and stand up to make sure that they have representation. You mentioned, like, long-term. This is the last thing I'll ask is

best case scenario for Democrats is that you guys are successful in a lot of these map changing. You're successful in resisting the Republican map changes. You win big, like maybe 2008 when Obama won or 2006 when you took back the House in that fashion by a significant majority. If you guys are in power, and then this continues, do you see yourselves pushing more of these efforts? If everything goes according to plan, do you strengthen that? Does this become a new tactic? Is what I'm asking.

Again, we need to make sure that we have a policy across the country so that fair maps are drawn everywhere across the country and stay in place. That's absolutely what we fought for for a long, long before this, and fighting for voting rights and to make sure that there aren't ongoing efforts to disenfranchise voters. Republicans have tried everything in terms of undermining campaign finance laws, disenfranchised voters, attacking things like vote by mail over and over again,

now trying to rig the system on redistricting to their advantage. What we need to do is make sure to remember the House of Representatives is the People's House and that the people are deciding who their representatives are. That's what we stand for and that's what we want to continue to work towards. To a certain extent, yes, but for example, if you look at that, the new California map, it takes some of the very far north districts and ropes in areas that economically and even not having big urban centers are not very similar. Like, they encompass more areas that are, I guess, less like how the districts are made up

now. So it's not exactly, it seems more about fairness for just talking about the House of Representatives, right? But remember, this is about responding to what Republicans are doing across the country. They're taking away people's voices. They're trying to undermine districts across the country. They're attacking the Voting Rights Act. That's even a case that's going to the Supreme Court. So we are going to continue to stand up against their efforts to rig the system

and stand up to make sure that we have free and fair elections. We'll leave it at that. Susan Dobene of Washington's First District and the chair of the D-Triple-C. Thank you for joining me. Thanks, Joe. Everyone's got a pro. Need tires? I've got a pro.

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