Bulwark Takes - How Joe Rogan Found His New Favorite Democrat (w/ James Talarico)

Episode Date: July 23, 2025

Lauren Egan talks to James Talarico, a Democratic member of the Texas House of Representatives who’s been all over our algorithm—and even appeared on the Joe Rogan Experience. They discuss how Democrats in red states are using smart, moral messaging and digital tools to fight the GOP from the minority. Talarico’s success is a case study in how Gen Z, social media, and innovative strategies are reshaping our politics. Get 10% off your first month of therapy with BetterHelp at https://BetterHelp.com/BULWARKTAKES. #sponsored Check out Rep. Talarico’s appearance on Joe Rogan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jOGPvMftb8 Follow Rep. Talarico on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@jamestalarico?lang=en

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Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. BenMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. What's up, guys? It's Lauren Egan here at The Bullwork, and I'm really excited about today's guest. It's Texas State Representative James Tallarico. And if you've heard that name, it's probably because he was just on the Joe Rogan podcast. Or if your social media algorithms look anything like mine, you might have seen him in his really viral and popular TikTok and Instagram reels talking from the Texas house floor.

James, thanks for being here. Thanks so much for having me. I told you this before I got on, but I'm a huge fan of yours and the bulwark. So I'm honored to be here. We appreciate it. Okay, before we get into it, I need you to settle a bulwark slack debate. We were chatting when you were on the Rogan show. And I don't know if you saw like Gavin Newsom did a four hour long podcast a few weeks ago. And I just want to know like, do you guys take bathroom breaks? Like what how does this actually work? Because that is a very long time to be sitting in one place. Like a four hour long interview.

I know yours is only two and a half hours, but like, it's crazy. It is. It's like a marathon. I have the exact same concern. I didn't ask the Joe Rogan people because I didn't want them to think I was weird. But I was like, how do I? Yeah, that's like the fastest way to get uninvited. Like, what is this guy saying? Yeah. Yeah. But I was, I had never done an interview that long before. And it's very different from a cable news hit where you're on there for five minutes and you have a set number of topics.

I mean, I didn't even, I had no idea what he wanted to talk about. They said that he had seen a video of mine on social media. He wanted to chat. And that was it. So I didn't even have a list of topics on social media. He wanted to chat and that was it. So I didn't even have a list of topics or. That's really interesting. And you're like, okay, cool. And this is like, whatever, maybe three hours long

and who knows where it could go. Yeah, I thought that that part was really interesting because he opened up the interview with you kind of talking about how a friend of his had seen your videos and was like, Joe, you gotta have this guy on. And you know, like Democrats have really struggled to sort of figure out social media

and how to use it effectively to communicate with people. And you seem to have really cracked the code on digital communication. So can you just talk about how you figured that out and what your advice is to a bunch of these Democrats who are just trying to figure this out for the first time? Well, it's strange because I'm a millennial. So when I was growing up, the Democratic Party was the cool party, right?

It was the younger party. It was the party that understood the internet and social media. I mean, I'm thinking of Howard Dean, Barack Obama. I mean, these campaigns kind of, you know, Howard Dean, Barack Obama, I mean, these campaigns kind of revolutionized digital organizing. And so we've fallen from that spot over the last decade or so. And, you know, I think it's gonna be younger Democrats,

millennials, Gen Z, elected officials who are able to, you know, speak on these platforms in an organic way. I think of it as almost like a language. I'm a native speaker of this social media language because I grew up with it. I had a MySpace when I was in high school. Yeah, I was going to ask, what was your first social media platform? It was MySpace. Yeah, it was MySpace. Yep. And then I had Facebook when I'm right when I graduated high school. And then I got Twitter pretty early when I was in college and then Instagram and then

recently got on TikTok. You know, as an elder millennial, I was kind of past the TikTok era. But my Gen Z staff members were like, you got to get on this, this platform. And I said, okay, but I'm not dancing. That was my like one, my red line. That's a good rule. Right. I think that's a good rule for most people

in elected office on their TikTok accounts. Unless you're a good dancer. Yeah, that's true, that's true. There are some exceptions, but very few. Yes. Do you cut your own like TikTok video? Like who does that for you? Do you manage your own social media accounts or do you, I mean, you know, I assume you

have a fairly small staff. Are they kind of doing this for you? So I'm a state rep, not a member of Congress or anything like that. So my team is pretty small, but I'm glad you asked because no one ever asks about the people who are doing the work behind the scenes. Antonio Esparza. I'm so glad I'm getting to shout him out. He is our Gen Z

communications director and he's the one who convinced me to get on TikTok. He's the one who cuts all the videos. He films them himself. And it's so interesting. I remember there was a press conference before the beginning of the regular legislative session in January. And it was kind of the typical press conference in the press room at the Capitol. We invited all the TV and print media. They were all there like they normally are. And Antonio was right there on the front row and he just had his iPhone and he filmed something

that I said at that press conference. He posted it on TikTok and it got 18 million views. And so from his little iPhone, he dwarfed what all of the newspapers, what all the TV channels were able to get in terms of views. And so just in that one moment, you saw how this media environment is changing so fast and so quickly. And we've got to adapt in the Democratic Party if we're going gonna keep up. Yeah, that's really interesting. And I mean, to that point, when you are giving a speech or you're at a press conference,

how much are you thinking about like, how does this going to be translated or used for TikTok? Because I think a lot of Democrats like still live in the sort of like cable news era or in like, we're all tuning into C-SPAN era and it's like, no, actually there's going to be like for you and your TikToks, you know, like a 30 second clip that's gonna be shared hopefully thousands or millions of times.

So how much is that factoring into like how you go about just doing your everyday speeches and things like that? Well, you know, what's cool about TikTok, Instagram is you can actually go a little longer than what you can do on a cable news hit. You know, a lot of our videos are about 90 seconds, which that's, you know, there's a huge difference between 30 and 90. And you can communicate a lot more, you can go in more depth. The thing that's important not to overlook is you still need to connect with the people

in the room. You know, I grew up in the church. That's really my first experience with public speaking and with connecting with people. And so being able to establish that relationship with the listeners right in front of you, human to human, is super important. Like if I'm given a speech or a sermon and I'm thinking about social media

and not the people in the room, it's not going to work. It's going to feel stale, it's going to feel artificial. And so I really just try to stay in the moment and connect with the people right in front of me. And then that is what usually, you know, it's what translates into a successful social media video. So a special session is just got underway, I believe in Texas and you are in Austin right now. Is that right? That's right. And so, you know, the special session was called

for a number of reasons. Obviously you guys are having to deal with those horrific flooding that happened earlier this month. But there is also another agenda item on the list and that is redistricting. And I just wanna give people like a quick overview in case they haven't been following the ins and outs

of this, but redistricting usually happens every decade at the start of a new decade, once the new census comes out. But Governor Abbott has asked you all to redraw the maps. Obviously, we're mid-decade, so the implication here is that Republicans are looking for a way to sort of squeeze out a few more wins in the House. They're anxious about retaining their House majority and are trying to pad that.

I want to talk to you about this because I would love to hear from you how Democrats are going to fight this because it seems to me like Democrats are pretty powerless right now in this situation. So convince me wrong. We always have power. You know, I have, as a Democrat in Texas, had to figure out how to get stuff done, how to fight for my constituents without being in the majority. Sometimes we Democrats, especially at the national level, we use the excuse of not being in the majority

as a reason not to work, not to fight. We don't have that luxury here in Texas because we've been in the minority for over 30 years. And so we've had to get used to using the tools that we have in the minority. And that's everything from the rules. You know, you've got to, as a legislator in the minority, you have to know the rules backwards and forwards

so that you can use that to kill bad bills or help good bills. We have to use our platforms. We already talked about social media, but you know, there is a ton of power in organizing people across a state as big as Texas, and social media provides a way to do that organizing work. And then, of course, there are more extreme tactics.

I was a part of the 2021 quorum break when Texas Republicans tried to pass a voter suppression bill in the wake of the big lie and January 6th to make it harder for people to vote. And so we, as Democrats in the lower chamber, denied the House quorum, and so we weren't able to conduct business. And it was a way of protesting what we saw as an overreach and as trying to rig the game. And that's exactly what's happening now.

So Donald Trump is trying to rig the 2026 elections. And we should say that plainly and clearly so people can understand, you know, he and his allies in DC just passed the largest transfer of wealth in American history with their big, beautiful bill. I mean, they literally are kicking millions of people off their health care to fund tax breaks for billionaires. And they know it's unpopular, but they don't care because they have this plan. They have a plan to to cheat, to insulate themselves from the will of the people.

And this is this is incredibly dangerous, and it should be concerning to everyone, regardless of your political party. If you're a Democrat or Republican or an Independent, no one wants politicians rigging an election so they don't have to answer to the people. I mean, if they're able to do this in Texas, one, they're going to do it in every red state

before the 2026 election. But more importantly, they're never going to have to fear the voters ever again. They can enrich themselves and their donors with impunity, without consequences, without accountability. And so that's what's really on the line with this redistricting. I know it sounds like process, it sounds like inside baseball, but politicians choosing their voters instead of voters choosing their politicians, that is the rock at the core of our broken political system. It's why we can't make progress

on housing, on healthcare, on education, and all the things we care about. So I really want folks to wake up to what's happening here and realize that one party is attempting to cheat and insulate themselves from the wills of the voters and nothing could be more disruptive to the democratic process. This is an ad by BetterHelp. Workplace stress is now one of the top causes of declining mental health

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Our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com slash bulwarktakes. That's betterH-E-L-P dot com slash bulwarktakes. Yeah, I've heard from other Democrats too, that like this, they view this as Trump trying and Republicans trying to cheat and steal the election, but if that's true then what do you think Democrats in other states like California states where there you know is a Democratic majority what should they be doing because Gavin

Newsom is saying that he might try and redraw the maps there obviously that's gonna be really complicated because they have an independent redistricting committee so there's a lot of hoops you'd actually have to jump through in order to do that. And it's not even entirely clear that this is like a real thing that could reasonably happen before midterms. But if this is Republicans trying to steal an election, then like what is the appropriate response from Democrats and other states? We have to match energy. We have to use every tool in the states? We have to match energy. We have to use every tool in the toolbox.

We have to play to the fullest extent of the rules. I mean, that's what this moment calls for. I think it's so important that Democrats, and honestly, all Texans, all Americans, keep their eye on the prize. Again, the goal is not to get into a tip for tat, a downward spiral where we're just gerrymandering every state in every election.

We don't want that. We do want to get to a point where we are taking the power to draw legislative districts out of the hands of politicians and putting it in the hands of the people. Having an independent citizen led redistricting commission should be the goal in every single state. But Democrats cannot unilaterally disarm, because that, you know, I think would be the end of this American experiment. And so I am thankful that Democrats here in Texas and in other states are trying to figure out how we can play

to the fullest extent of the rules, how we can stand up to bullies. Because appeasement doesn't work. We know that throughout history. We have to fight with the same energy if we're gonna be able to save this American experiment, which I'm hopeful we can do if people in both political parties stand up to this kind of extremism in the next election. You are also a former teacher and you talked about this a little bit on the Rogan podcast,

but something that I've been thinking a lot about is how education has always been this issue that Democrats have been really trusted on and more trusted than Republicans, at least it was that way for quite some time. I think COVID changed a lot of that. And I'm curious how you are thinking about that and how Democrats can kind of get back to a place where they are the party that is the most trusted when it comes to education topics. I totally agree. You know, like you said, before I was a politician, I was a public school teacher, and I taught sixth grade language arts at Rhodes Middle School on the west side of San Antonio. And I often say that teaching middle school is the best preparation for politics.

But that work is what motivated me to run for office, to help students like mine, to help my fellow teachers on the west side, some of whom were selling their own blood plasma to make extra money. Some of them were driving Ubers at night to make ends meet, which again in the wealthiest country in human history, that should be unacceptable to nickel and dime the most important professionals in any community. Because without the teaching profession, there would be no other professions. And so the fact that we make our teachers go to extreme lengths just to survive should be disgusting to everyone,

regardless of your political party. And to answer your question, I think the reason that we've lost trust on this issue is because we've lost trust on this issue is because we've lost our imagination. I am not interested in defending the status quo in any sector, but particularly in education. I am not going to be satisfied until every single child in Texas and across the country has the ability to fulfill their God-given potential.

That's a lofty goal, and we are far from it right now. And Democrats in too many states have become the defenders of the status quo. Understandably so, because we've seen such extreme attacks from the other side. The Republican party is intent on destroying public schools. So we have to defend against those extreme attacks,

but then also offer a vision for how this system or how this institution could be different, how it could actually work for everybody, particularly my students on the west side of San Antonio. So that's where I want us to get to, not just playing defense, but playing offense and providing an exciting vision for what these

systems could look like and how they could really deliver for people. You've also said that Democrats have a moral imperative to win. And I'm curious what that means to you because I hear that, especially, you know, I live in Tennessee, so I get it, like being in a red state to me, that kind of suggests that you might have to make compromises on some things, whether it's abortion access or gun rights. So can you explain to me, like, what that means to you, especially coming from a red state?

Well, I think this is a tension between, you know, the National Democratic Party and Democrats in red states like Texas or Tennessee, where national Democrats, those who are living in blue states or blue cities on the coast, you know, they're very comfortable on the coast, they're comfortable with the status quo because oftentimes they are not directly threatened by Republican extremism like the way my constituents are here in Texas. We have the highest number of uninsured people in the entire country.

We've refused to expand Medicaid year after year, even though it would help people who desperately need help across the state. We have the most extreme abortion ban in the country. We have women literally dying in emergency room parking lots because of Republican extremism. We've seen the biggest mass shootings in the country here in Texas, including U-Valde, where we lost 19 babies and two teachers because of a refusal to raise the age to buy one of these weapons of war from 18 to 21. So my constituents

are living with those consequences and some of them are dying because of these policy decisions. So that's why I say we have a moral imperative to win, not to complain on social media, not to play purity politics about who's more pure, not to posture and grandstand and virtue signal. I'm not interested in any of that. Here in Texas, we need to win. We need to gain power so that we can make people's lives better and easier, period. And so that's, I think you have this kind of moral clarity in a red state that maybe you don't have

when you're more comfortable living under a different kind of government. So that's the perspective I think red state Democrats can bring to the National Democratic Party is a focus on winning. And that's why I went on Joe Rogan's show. It's why I went on Fox News. It's why I went on the Christian Broadcasting Network. It's why I'm here on the board.

It's because politics is about addition, not subtraction. So if you want a pure, insular, small group, then you want a social club. You don't want a political party. Because the purpose of a political party is to win power to help people. That's the goal of a party. And so I'm trying to push national Democrats to recognize that and start to do everything we need to do

to win elections, because that is what matters in a democracy not you know riling up your own base or winning points with with certain advocacy groups the goal is to build a big enough coalition that can win and transform this country well I know you're super busy so I will let you go in just a second but first I assume you're a Texas fan, a Texas football fan? Very much so, yes. Okay, I won't hold it against you. Are you enjoying the SEC? Well, we've done pretty well in the SEC. You know, our little brothers at Texas A&M joined the SEC a while back and made a big deal about how we couldn't cut it.

And that certainly hasn't been the case. I will say as a Vanderbilt fan, we did come very close to beating you all last year. And you know, maybe this season. I'm very excited because if we've had a long drought, last time we were in the national championship was when I was a student at UT back in 2009, and we were robbed in that game against Alabama.

But I'm very excited that our team is making a comeback and taking that spot we deserve at the top of college football. I might get sent out of Tennessee for saying this, but you guys do have the better orange color in the SEC, Tennessee. Or I know literally I'm gonna have to leave this. I agree. You know, burnt orange is the color of leather and sunsets. Tennessee orange is so neon.

I married into a Tennessee family. So maybe it's just I'm like surrounded by too much just like insanely orange crap. But in original UT as well. I think you are also. Yeah. Yeah. In virtual UT as well. I think you all are also UT. Yeah, so we're very similar. Thanks for asking. Thanks for being here. And good luck with the rest of the session.

And come back anytime. Love to. Thanks for having me.