Bulwark Takes - Is Mike Waltz Saying We Should Bomb HOSPITALS?

Episode Date: April 20, 2026

Will Saletan takes on Trump's threats to destroy Iran’s infrastructure—and the chilling defense from top officials who say “all options” includes targets that blur into civilian life. As the language shifts from bridges to hospitals and schools, the question isn’t just strategy—it’s how far the U.S. is willing to go.Sign up for your one-dollar-per-month trial today at https://shopify.com/bulwarktakes.

Hey, it's Will Salatan from the bulwark. So in the war in Iran, we are the good guys, right? I mean, the Iranian regime is definitely the bad guys, right? They support terrorism. They massacre their own protesters. They shoot missiles at civilians in other countries. They're just bad. So that means we are the good guys, right? But it turns out that it's really easy for the good guys to be. become bad guys. And that's what is happening to the United States, our country right now. Let me show you what I'm talking about. Here is what our president, Donald Trump, posted on truth social on Sunday morning. He said, if Iran doesn't accept our terms for ending the war, quote, the United States is going to knock out every single power plant and every single bridge in Iran. No more

Mr. Nice Guy. And when Trump says no more Mr. Nice Guy, he's not talking about table manners. He means we're not going to fuss anymore about all those annoying rules in the Geneva Conventions or the Hague conventions about targeting civilian assets like bridges and power plants. We're not going to fuss anymore about whether what we're doing is a war crime. Now, it's one thing for Trump to say that. But you don't really become a bad country, so you have other people in our government following Trump's lead and defending those threats. And that is what happened yesterday on the Sunday shows. I'm going to show you three senior officials from the Trump administration and the GOP. Let's start with Mike Walts. He is our American ambassador to the United Nations. He was on ABC and Jonathan

Carl read him what Trump wrote and he asked this question. Is he prepared to do what he threatened here? He said destroy every power plan and every bridge in the country. Full-on, in-depth war extended in the Middle East. He's ready for that? Well, all options are on the table, absolutely. Unlike his predecessor, President Trump doesn't publicly take options off the table and tell our adversaries what he's not going to do, therefore giving them leverage.

Okay. So all options are on the table, including hitting the civilian targets. See, according to Waltz, that is the difference between Trump and former presidents like Barack Obama, George W. Bush. See, they, those former presidents, they were too fussy. See, they took options off the table, like destroying all of a country's bridges and power plans. See, that was dumb. That was dumb on their part because then the enemy knows that there are things you won't do, right? And according to Waltz, according to Waltz, that gives the enemy leverage. See, Trump, Trump is smart, right? He's telling the enemy, there's nothing we won't do. And just in case,

just in case it's not clear, Walt says, yeah, yeah, we're ready to take out all of the that civilian infrastructure. All options are on the table. We could take that infrastructure out relatively easily. The Iranian air defenses have been absolutely decimated. It's easy, he says, right? We're ready to go. But Walt says it's not a war crime. Attacking, destroying infrastructure that has clearly and historically been used for dual military purposes is not a war crime. Okay, fair point. If some power plants are used by Iran's military, those are military targets. But that's not what Trump said. Trump said all the bridges and all the power plants.

And Carl brings that up. The president today said that he would knock out every single power plant and every single bridge in Iran. He's not just talking about those that are supporting the military infrastructure. He's saying every bridge and every power plant in the country, that wouldn't be a war crime? That would be an escalatory ladder. Oh, yeah. It certainly would be an escalation. But what does he mean about a ladder?

I mean, where is the ladder going? Bulwark Takes is sponsored by Shopify. Here's the thing about shopping on the internet. You might be doing it when you're tired, right before you head to bed. If your credit card isn't lying around, it's very easy to just switch tabs and never follow through on the purchase you intended. That is no good if you're a business trying to convert customers in your online store. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses all around the world, 10% of all e-commerce in the U.S., from household names like

Allbirds or Death Wish Coffee to brands just getting started, maybe yours. Accelerate your efficiency, whether you're uploading new products or trying to improve existing ones. Shopify is packed with helpful AI tools that write product descriptions, page headlines, and even enhance your product photography. Get the word out like you have a marketing team behind you. Easily create email and social media campaigns wherever your customers are scrolling or strolling. Best yet, Shopify is your commerce expert with world-class expertise in everything from managing inventory to international shipping to processing returns and beyond. What if people haven't heard about my brand? Shopify helps you find your customers with easy-to-run email and social

media campaigns. See fewer carts go abandoned and more sales go with Shopify and their shop pay button. Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at Shopify.com slash bulwark takes. Go to Shopify.com slash bulwark takes. That's Shopify.com slash bulwark takes. This is not the only time Waltz has talked about a ladder. He used the same word, the same day on Meet the Press. The president will move up an escalation ladder responsibly as our amazing military will follow those orders with him as a commander-in-chief? Wait a minute. Before our amazing military starts following these orders, where is this ladder going? I mean, is Trump moving us up the ladder or is he taken us down the ladder? Down, down,

as in not to the good place. Because if nothing is off the table, guess where we're headed? Let me show you what I mean. Here is what Kristen Welker asked Waltz on me. the press. But as you know, some Iranian advocates are urging the United States not to target civilian infrastructure. Are you saying the United States is okay targeting civilians, the people of Iran? Okay. So her question is literally, is the United States okay with targeting civilians? That's, that's not even bridges and power plants. She literally said civilians. So the answer should be, No, no, we're not okay with that. We're not going to do that. But Waltz doesn't say that. I'm going to show you his answer, but I want you to listen for when he starts to say the word

civilian, and then, then he catches himself. And the laws of land warfare and the rules of engagement, any type of infrastructure that is being commingled that is being used to move military hardware is absolutely a legitimate target. hear that? He started to say civilian infrastructure was a legitimate target. But then, then he caught himself and he said commingled infrastructure. He said, if you commingle military assets with civilian assets, then it's fair game. So what's he talking about? What kind of commingled assets are fair game? The Iranian regime in particular and its terrorist proxies have a long history of actually deliberately hiding military infrastructure in hospitals, schools, neighborhoods.

Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Hospitals and schools? He's not saying that hospitals and schools are fair game, is he? I'm referencing people who are completely opposed to the Iranian regime and yet don't want to see civilian infrastructure targeted. But let's keep moving. Will Vice President J.D. Viz. But we have to keep in mind that this is a regime that hides military hardware and homes and hospitals and schools. Let's keep moving. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. No, no, no, no.

Let's not keep moving. Let's pause right there. Okay. She asked about targeting civilian infrastructure, right? And Waltz, responding to that point, said, hey, hey, but Iran puts military hardware in hospitals and schools. Why would you bring that up? Why would you bring that up there?

Unless your point is, if we hit hospitals and schools, that's okay because that's where Iran hides military equipment. In fact, Walt says that's what Iran does. He says they target civilians. Number three, it's perfectly acceptable in the rules of land warfare. Number four, the Iranian regime is launching drones and missiles directly into civilian homes, hotels, and resorts. Now, he's right. Iran does target civilians. But Waltz didn't make that point in the context of condemning Iran. He made it in the context of defending our right to hit the bridges and the power plants. He's implying that because Iran does it, we can do it. Or let's be totally fair. He's implying that because Iran does flagrant war crimes, we can do. ambiguous war crimes.

I mean, hey, at least we're better than they are, right? And it's not just Waltz. Chris Wright, the Energy Secretary, went on two other shows on Sunday. And he made the same points. Here he is on Fox News. When the president talks about blowing up every power plant, every bridge, how does that complicate things for if the people do have an opportunity to rebuild there and how far it sets back some kind of recovery for the country?

Look, the president's using every way he can to get leverage over the regime to bring this conflict to an end. He's a creative negotiator. He uses pressure in different ways. He uses uncertainty in different ways. Ah, see, the president, Donald Trump is a creative negotiator, right? He uses uncertainty. And the uncertainty is, will he blow up all your bridges and power plants? It's kind of like that scene and the godfather where Michael Corleone intimidates a witness by bringing the witness's brother to a hearing. So Michael's message to the witness is,

maybe I'll kill your whole family or maybe I won't. See, that's uncertainty, right? And uncertainty gives us leverage, smart. And then just in case, just in case it wasn't clear enough that targeting all the bridges and power plants is a war crime, Jake Tapper raised that point directly with Secretary Wright. On CNN, Tapper read Trump's social media post out loud. And then he asked this question. Are you not concerned that those proposed strikes on civilian infrastructure, including power plants, would hurt the innocent people of Iran and would constitute a war crime. Yeah, look, the president's looking for maximum leverage,

maximum leverage in these negotiations. A lot of their infrastructure supports only their war machine. Of course, a lot of it supports civilians as well. But no, I'm not worried about that. There it is again. The president is looking for maximum leverage, right? And the leverage comes from threatening the power plants, even the ones that only serve civilians.

billions. Okay, one more. I want to show you one more Republican. This is Elise Stefanik. She was the third highest-ranking Republican in the House of Representatives. And then she was Trump's nominee to be our ambassador to the UN. Okay, she was also on CNN yesterday. And Tapper asked her about this message that Trump posted two weeks ago. Trump wrote that if Iran didn't open the Strait of Hormuz, quote, a whole civilization will die tonight. This is after Trump originally threatened

to destroy all the bridges and power plants, right? So here is what Tapper asked Stefanik. What did you think when President Trump threatened to obliterate the entire Iranian civilization? He was focusing on the Iranian

regime. And what did it do? It brought the Iranians to the table. It led to the ceasefire. Ah. It brought the Iranians to the table. Again, this is the same point you heard from Mike Walts and Chris Wright. Trump is threatening civilian targets to frighten Iran into making concessions. Except, except this time, this time, Tapper, he isn't talking about the threat to bridges and power plants.

He's talking about Trump's literal threat that a whole civilization will die tonight. That is an explicit threat of genocide. And Stefanik says, she says that threat is okay. It's okay because it worked. In fact, that exchange between her and Tapper, that goes on for six minutes. He keeps reminding her that Trump explicitly threatened to kill a whole civilization. And she keeps saying this. Jake, isn't it true that it brought the Iranians to the table to a ceasefire agreement?

It was an effective tool to bring them to the table. And what did it do? It brought the Iranians to the table. President Trump effectively brought the Iranians to the table. And again, that has brought the Iranians to the table. So that's where our country, the United States, officially stands right now. Our energy secretary, our ambassador to the UN, our previous nominee for ambassador to the UN, a senior Republican in Congress, They all say that our president's threat to destroy civilian targets or even to wipe out an entire civilization is okay.

They say those threats are okay because they will scare Iran into giving us what we want. That is how a once great country, our country, becomes one of the bad guys. We don't need to make America great again. We need to make America. good again. See you next time.