Bulwark Takes - Mike Flynn Devoured by the MAGA Conspiracies He Created

Episode Date: May 1, 2025

Will Sommer talks with Sam Stein about the latest edition of his newsletter, False Flag They discuss how Michael Flynn, Trump’s former national security advisor, went from the premier peddler of MAGA conspiracy theories to being the target of one

Hey guys, it's me, Sam Stein, managing editor at The Bullwark, and I'm joined by Will Sommer, author of the False Flag newsletter franchise. We're going to be talking about Mike Flynn, the chief purveyor of conspiracies, getting consumed by a conspiracy theory of his own. Will, let's start by just kind of laying out the kind of central role that Mike Flynn plays in this crazy universe that you – I don't want to say you inhabit it. You're like an anthropologist who is kind of figuring it out. Yeah, exactly. I'm like the nature photographer dressed as an elephant or whatever. Yeah, exactly. You've been staying there for years just to get the perfect shot.

Let's talk about Flynn's role. Like obviously he's pushed a lot of the QAnon stuff. Some people think he's Q. But how did he get to this place? And what kind of role actually is it? Sure. So Michael Flynn was, of course, a general. He was briefly Trump's national security advisor in the first term. And most importantly, for our purposes, he was indicted by Robert Mueller. And so because of that, he became a hero to the Trump grassroots and especially conspiracy theorists who thought that, you know, anyone getting indicted by Robert Mueller was sort of a victim of the deep state and this hero. And so they positioned him as sort of like a martyr. Okay. But how did he go from that to being so heavily involved in the

QAnon conspiracy? Sure. So, well, a lot of them thought that he came to believe that he was Q or maybe working with Q. How does that happen? Well, they said, you know, who's Q? I'm not asking for personal advice. I don't want to, just to be clear, I don't want to follow these footsteps. I'm very curious how someone ends up becoming so centralized in the q not conspiracy to the point where they're actually considered q yeah so i mean they they were looking around for someone who who they could believe in and and they they said well you know here's this guy who's already kind of into conspiracy theories and they started to um you know then he started going to their conventions and all that kind of stuff. Okay, that's two. And then he fits the mold as someone who could orchestrate a bunch of shit, right?

Yes. Yeah. Okay. And he then, of course, pushed a lot of it. Yeah, exactly. And so he starts promoting, I mean, his son got really into Pizzagate. He starts going to these conventions. He said that we should do a Myanmar-style coup here, you know, against liberals.

You know, he later claimed, oh no, I wasn't really that in favor of the coup, whatever. And so this is a guy who has been riding high and sort of remade himself after leaving government as like a hero to conspiracy theorists. And then since Trump's reelection, what has he been up to? Well, so, you know, he's been on the sidelines as far as we know. I mean, obviously, he hasn't come back into government. Was I right to – do I remember correctly that there's rumors that he might be part of the new administration at some point? Yeah, I mean, I think there certainly are rumors about it. But, you know, we haven't seen anything concrete. I don't think there's been any, like, serious reporting.

At the same time, you know, I wouldn't rule it out. I would be surprised. any like serious reporting. At the same time, you know, I wouldn't rule it out. I would, I'd be surprised. There are certain stoves you don't touch. All right. So, so here we have this guy, he's fairly active in the conspiracy theory community. His son is active in the community. He himself pushes conspiracy theories. And then what happens is he suddenly becomes embroiled in one. And in this case, the conspiracy is, and correct me if I'm wrong, that he had a role to play in essentially setting up the January 6th insurrection. Right. So in this case, the conspiracy theory is, we can broadly call it kind of like the Flynn network, is that Michael Flynn and his brother Charles, who actually is a high-ranking general in the military.

Yes. And so there's this idea. Basically, Michael Flynn. I find that weird that his brother is like a high-ranking official and he's out there saying the most insane stuff possible. Is that not creating – I feel like that would create some conflicts or some problems for the brother, but maybe Mike, well,

yeah, we, we don't know what his brother thinks of Michael. I mean, maybe, you know, maybe, I have a brother.

I love my brother. And I, if he went crazy down rabbit holes, I would not disown him, but I would find it a little bit uncomfortable. You might say, Hey, you know,

cut me a break here. Sign offline. Like, you know, put that on the phone all right sorry back to the point so mike flynn what he's supposed to be involved in january 6th why yeah so you know this is kind of there's like a lot of dualities here um sorry so there's a lot of dualities here i mean on one hand the you know they think january 6th was good but also they also they think Michael Flynn set it up and that's bad to entrap Trump people. So there's kind of like a lot of contradictions. Under this conspiracy, why would Michael Flynn do that? Well, because they think he teamed up with – basically, there are a lot of factions in q and i world i guess

did i just stump you did i think i just stumped will so there are a lot of the end of end of will's ability to explain the conspiracies so wait michael flynn facilitated january 6th because he wanted to set up these trumpers and get them in trouble with law enforcement yes but we don't know why he would do that well basically the idea is that he's still working for the deep state you know that he was sort of what you might say he was sheep dipped right and so that means that i don't know what that looks they made it they basically means that they kind of gave him this cover identity as this conspiracy theory hero uh so that he could

lead all these, these, you know, these right wingers, these Trump supporters. That's a fairly long con, isn't it? That's like a, that's like a four year con that he ran to get to this point. It is. I mean, you know, basically a lot of this dates back to Michael Flynn's feud with these people called In the Matrix and another gentleman named Sh groove. Um, and these gentlemen, they used to be buddy, buddy QAnon people with him. They had a falling out. It's really kind of complex and boring. Frankly, it's kind of like internal QAnon drama. Um, but basically as a result, they have turned on him. Uh, and so now cut to this week, this month where Michael Flynn, uh,

this gentleman named Earl Matthews has been nominated to be the Pentagon's general counsel. So like the top lawyer at the Pentagon. But he has beef with the Flynn family going back to January 6th, because basically, he was working for the National Guard in DC, he felt that Charles Flynn, the brother kind of threw the National Guard under the bus and said, you know, they were they were too late to get to January 6th to stop it. And so from this, a lot of conspiracy theories have grown, criticizing the Flynn family and saying, well, maybe Michael Flynn and his brother caused this to happen. And this guy who's kind of waging his own internal military feud is providing grist for that. Well, found most interesting about earl matthews i

suppose was that he's awaiting confirmation to a post and he's out there just doing all this crazy shit yeah so so this is funny so his criticism of flint was picked up by q and on people who now hate flint and they including they made a rap about it where it's like you know earl's here he's so snide the flint network has nothing to hide yeah i'd love to okay we're gonna play and enjoy it yeah let's play there's a reason yo they duck and they weed flint network sure can't let you believe earl matthew's name they won't let it shine but the truth's breaking free it's a matter of time reasons they hide reasons they lie patriots opposers let's look in their eyes all right so there's the rap so he reposts he reposts that he reposts a q anon video about

you know flynn's panicking because earl's in charge you know this guy this is like this guy is otherwise presents as like a pretty like straightforward military guy but he's just like again he's up for a post like you know like but he's just like again he's up for a post like you know like usually people are just like i'm gonna be quiet i'm gonna like get into the post i you know my career is on the line i don't want to maybe gamble with it by going online and spouting nonsense but not earl earl's just out there no he's really and this is the world we live in i think is the broader point is that like you have these these we already saw like for example like laura loomer purge the national security council and now we see this this guy who's trying to get confirmed and he's saying you know michael

flynn standing in my way and also here's a rap about how cool i am so flynn's flynn does flynn see the irony at all and in the fact that he's been pushing conspiracies and now is being consumed by one? Flynn is absolutely blowing his lid over this. I mean, he is tweeting. He's like, you know, because he's kind of an older guy. He's using this kind of weird terminology. He said, me and my family are tired of being a pincushion for the mob and all this. And so there is this irony that he was like Mr. Conspiracy Theory and now he's the victim of one.

But I don't think he has a sense of humor about it. No, probably not. All right. Well, we'll be watching to see what he does with this. And maybe they'll just eat each other. And I'm very curious to see if Earl Matthews ends up at the Pentagon. So keep us posted on that. Will Sommer, thanks so much.

Really appreciate this update on the weirdest part of our politics as always. Subscribe to the feed and we'll catch you later.